IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 10 November 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:37 | <mangus580> can LTSP be run using an 'external' dhcp server, and not the one on the machine hosting LTSP?
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| 03:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: just a couple bugfixes from ltsp-trunk, and wheezy works great for the ltsp-pnp style images
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| 03:17 | <alkisg> vagrantc: cool - what fixes?
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| 03:17 | Ah, from trunk - ok
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| 03:18 | <vagrantc> ltsp-config needs a couple echo -> printf
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| 03:18 | not just to comply with policy, it's actually broken
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| 03:18 | <mangus580> either of you 2 see my question from before?
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| 03:19 | <alkisg> vagrantc: hmmm what part is broken? I don't think I've seen it in installations here...
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| 03:19 | mangus580: yes, it's possible. Tell your dhcp server to send next-server==the ltsp server
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| 03:19 | <vagrantc> "ltsp-config dnsmasq" failed to sed properly
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| 03:20 | it's probably cuz i had half a dozen networks available, rather than just one.
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| 03:20 | fixing the bashisms fixed it though
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| 03:20 | <mangus580> alkisg: do I turn the server off on the ltsp machine?
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| 03:20 | <alkisg> vagrantc: did you have this included in the wheezy version? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/2371
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| 03:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you had committed one of the fixes back in september
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| 03:20 | alkisg: yeah, that's the one i neede
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| 03:21 | d
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| 03:21 | <alkisg> Nice
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| 03:21 | <vagrantc> plus the recent one
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| 03:21 | <alkisg> mangus580: dhcp off, tftp on (on the ltsp server)
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| 03:21 | <mangus580> ok
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| 03:21 | where are the settings for that?
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| 03:21 | <alkisg> Depending on distro/version/installation method, you might not have installed a dhcp server at all
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| 03:22 | If you did, just uninstall the package
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| 03:22 | <mangus580> edubuntu
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| 03:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, and it still has the issue with a separate boot partition, probably due to differentce in aufs/overlayfs
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| 03:23 | <alkisg> mangus580: You didn't specify the other two though, ../version/installation method. Anyway have a look at this page to get the idea: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP
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| 03:25 | vagrantc: that'd be a bit difficult for me to reproduce it, if you could hunt it down yourself it'd be nice... /me isn't using a separate /boot partition in any of his systems...
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| 03:25 | <mangus580> alkisg: brb, on the phone
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| 03:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the filesystem gets mounted and everything works fine, but mksquashfs doesn't pick up the sub-mounts...
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 03:27 | <vagrantc> at least, i think that's what's happening
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| 03:27 | <alkisg> ...I'm guessing the submounts aren't mounted?
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| 03:28 | <vagrantc> they're mounted
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| 03:28 | no need to troubleshoot it at this point- it works for the typical use-case... just need to document it somewhere
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| 03:29 | <alkisg> Then it sounds like aufs can't handle submounts on the bottom layer... which would be difficult to troubleshoot, yeah...
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| 03:29 | OK
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| 03:30 | <vagrantc> might just be an option to pass to aufs, maybe...
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| 03:31 | i guess we'd have to mount them each with their own aufs?
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| 03:32 | <alkisg> I don't think so... if it can't see bind-mounts, why would it see aufs-mounts in the bottom layer?
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| 03:34 | http://aufs.sourceforge.net/aufs2/man.html#Branch%20Syntax
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| 03:34 | If you specify such filesystems as an aufs branch, aufs will return an error saying it is unsupported.
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| 03:35 | But I think aufs supports multiple branches in a single call
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| 03:35 | So it might be possible to combine everything in a single aufs call
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| 03:37 | <vagrantc> alkisg: aufs mounts on top of the aufs...
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| 03:37 | alkisg: we've been through this before ... :)
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| 03:37 | alkisg: the single aufs call would put the /boot on the same level as /
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| 03:37 | <alkisg> I don't remember it, but it does say that it's unsupported above ^, doesn't it?
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| 03:37 | <alkisg> It doesn't have a syntax for defining where to mount it?
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| 03:37 | <vagrantc> too late for wheezy annyways.
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| 03:38 | # sudo mount -t aufs -o br:/rw_branch:/ro_branch none /aufs
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| 03:38 | # sudo mount -t aufs -o br:/rw_branch/${d}:/ro_branch/${d} none /aufs/another/$d
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| 03:38 | from the manpage ... is the recommended way to get sub-mounts
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| 03:38 | <alkisg> OK, this gave me the wrong impression: (05:34:17 πμ) alkisg: If you specify such filesystems as an aufs branch, aufs will return an error saying it is unsupported.
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| 03:39 | (from the aufs.sf.net site)
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| 03:39 | * alkisg hopes overlayfs or some other system will become default in all distros at some point so that we won't have to maintain multiple options there :) | |
| 03:40 | <vagrantc> no doubt
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| 03:40 | but the time i was able to use aufs in debian, ubuntu had already switched to something else
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| 03:42 | <mangus580> alkisg: that link helps some...
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| 03:42 | but my issue is, my dhcp server is a fedora 14
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| 03:42 | <alkisg> mangus580: You just need to specify the correct next-server and boot filename there
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| 03:42 | <mangus580> k - let me look some
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| 03:46 | alkisg: http://goo.gl/f3NyG - is this what I am looking for?
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| 03:47 | <alkisg> Something like that, yeah
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| 03:47 | <mangus580> ok
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| 04:51 | <mangus580> hmmm cant make it work :-(
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| 05:52 | <mangus580> alkisg: I got it working!
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| 05:53 | <alkisg> Nice :)
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| 05:53 | <mangus580> any suggestions on booting over wifi?
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| 05:53 | is there any bootloaders that will make it happen?
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| 05:53 | <alkisg> ...don't do it?
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| 05:53 | You could make it work with a bit of scripting, a local initramfs, drivers etc
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| 05:53 | <mangus580> well - I would prefer not to.... but the 2 computers I plan on using are laptops - and they are for the kids to use in places that dont really have wires
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> But it's not worth it because of bandwidth restrains
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| 05:54 | <mangus580> I tried iPXE but not seeing how to set up the wireless even though they claim it works
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| 05:54 | <alkisg> It'll be very slow; the best thing you could do there is have the chroot in some local media
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| 05:54 | They claim that they have alpha support for only a couple of drivers
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| 05:54 | I'm betting yours isn't one of them
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| 05:54 | <mangus580> ahh
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| 05:55 | well, that being the case, then maybe this isnt really the way for me to go
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| 05:55 | maybe I should just install edubuntu on the machines
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| 05:55 | <alkisg> Right
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| 05:55 | <mangus580> what is the difference between thin & thick client?
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| 05:55 | <alkisg> !fatclients
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| 05:55 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 05:56 | <alkisg> !ltsp-pnp
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| 05:56 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 05:56 | <mangus580> is thick, where the OS lives local, but the user storage lives on the 'host'?
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| 05:56 | <alkisg> "Fat" in LTSP means that the applications run locally on the client. The client still has no disk though, it gets if from the server again.
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| 05:56 | <mangus580> ahh
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| 05:57 | so thin, the apps run on the server
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| 05:57 | so crazy question - how is this different than microsoft terminal services?
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| 05:58 | since that runs ok over wifi (granted, running windows as the client OS)
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| 05:58 | same concept is it not?
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| 05:58 | <alkisg> Microsoft terminal services don't support boot from lan
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| 05:58 | Other than that, they're all basically "remote desktop"
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| 05:58 | LTSP thin clients, x2go, nx, rdp...
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| 05:58 | <mangus580> so over wifi, wouldnt it only be the boot process thats slow?
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| 05:58 | once up, wouldnt it be fine?
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| 05:59 | <alkisg> No, the boot process needs about 50 MB
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| 05:59 | While e.g. a full screen youtube video needs 50 mbps
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| 05:59 | 50 MB/sec, or 500 mbps
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| 05:59 | <mangus580> gotcha
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| 05:59 | <alkisg> So no, the booting part is fine, it's the remote desktop part that is slow
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| 05:59 | (in any implementation/os)
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| 06:00 | <mangus580> I guess I never really tried to do youtube over RDP
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| 06:00 | :-)
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| 06:00 | <alkisg> Right, the trick there is to do the decoding part locally
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| 06:00 | So then it'll only need 1 mbps
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| 06:00 | <mangus580> right
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| 06:00 | <alkisg> Instead of 500
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| 06:00 | That's a benefit for fat clients (even diskless)
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| 06:00 | <mangus580> oh well - I've only lost a couple hours on it :-D
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| 06:01 | so fat might work 'reasonable' on wireless.
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| 06:01 | <alkisg> Libreoffice when it loads reads 120 MB from the disk
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| 06:01 | <mangus580> but alas...
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| 06:01 | again, its probably just better to install direct
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| 06:01 | <alkisg> Devide that by 5 MB/sec, the wireless speed for 1 client...
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| 06:02 | So if you have the newer wireless, at 600 mbps, it'll be OK for 2 clients
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| 06:02 | <mangus580> or setup vdiblaster and a vmware view server... (www.vdiblaster.com) and just run vm's for them
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| 06:02 | <alkisg> If not, nope
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| 06:02 | VMs locally or remotely?
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| 06:02 | <mangus580> remote
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| 06:02 | <alkisg> All remote technologies have the same problem
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| 06:03 | Won't work well with low bandwidth
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| 06:03 | <mangus580> yeah - guess I am not thinking straight
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| 06:03 | possibly too late for rational thinking tonight LOL
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| 06:03 | * alkisg gets AFK for a while to do some work... bbl | |
| 06:04 | <mangus580> thanks for the help
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| 18:26 | <lmk> is the dnsmasq builtin tftp server sufficient or is tftp-hpa server required?
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| 18:27 | <vagrantc> dnsmasq works great for tftp
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| 18:28 | there are some bugs for using dnsmasq's dhcp for large deployments where they have many (20+) simultaneous thin clients booting
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> why am i too shy to apply the patch submitted in: http://bugs.debian.org/591608
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| 20:22 | i think i even tested it years ago...
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