IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 April 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 17:01 | <contactwajeeh> hi
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| 17:02 | i was able to fix the issue, i basically wanted to rdp to windows TS which was achieved with customization of lts.conf
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> Hello
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| 17:02 | <contactwajeeh> and it now directly boots to windows logon screen
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| 17:02 | able to login and use it
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> Ah, then you didn't need to login at all
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| 17:02 | <contactwajeeh> have one issue where I am unable to get sound on the thin clients
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| 17:02 | any possible way to fix it
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> No sound at all or no sound in rdp?
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| 17:02 | <contactwajeeh> no sound if i connect via thin client
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> I.e. is that an ltsp issue or a problem with your command line of xfreerdp?
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| 17:03 | <contactwajeeh> if I rdp from a full blown desktop I am getting sound
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| 17:04 | my rdp options are as follows
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| 17:04 | RDP_OPTIONS="-f --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx"
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| 17:04 | <alkisg> What command are you using to rdp from a full blown desktop?
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| 17:04 | Which rdp are you using?
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| 17:04 | <contactwajeeh> i mean from a windows machine
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| 17:05 | xfreerdp
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Does it work if you run xfreerdp from a full blown linux desktop?
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| 17:05 | <contactwajeeh> i havent tested it as i dont have linux boxes atm
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Try from a live cd
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| 17:06 | I don't think it's an ltsp issue but how you run xfreerdp
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| 17:06 | If you can't find how to make sound work in xfreerdp in google, them maybe you can ask in their mailing list
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| 17:06 | <contactwajeeh> if i add anything like -r sound:local to the rdp options all I am getting is a black screen with cursor
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| 17:06 | <alkisg> Don't use RDP_OPTIONS and RDP_SERVER etc
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| 17:06 | Use only this line in lts.conf:
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| 17:07 | SCREEN_07="xfreerdp -f --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx --whatever-else-you-want"
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| 17:07 | I.e. everything in a single line, with the server and all there
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| 17:07 | <contactwajeeh> where do i add server info
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> I think it's the last parameter of xfreerdp
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> SCREEN_07="xfreerdp -f --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx --whatever-else-you-want <server-goes-here>"
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| 17:07 | <contactwajeeh> got it, let me give it a try
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> contactwajeeh: for TESTING, you can also put this:
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| 17:09 | SCREEN_07=xterm
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| 17:09 | This will get you an xterm, and you can test xfreerdp from there
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| 17:10 | When you get the full command line that works for you, with sound and all, then you can put that whole line in lts.conf
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| 17:12 | <contactwajeeh> this info is great, thanks alkisg
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| 17:15 | <contactwajeeh> alkisg freerdp is better or rdesktop
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> Is that a statement or a question?
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| 17:15 | Ah, "or"
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| 17:15 | Sorry
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| 17:15 | I read "of" :)
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| 17:15 | AFAIK xfreerdp is better, but I'm not using any one of them
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| 17:15 | I haven't really used windows since 2008
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| 17:16 | xfreerdp was actively developed some years ago, but I don't see any recent news about it
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| 17:17 | For good clients with e.g. 1 GB RAM, I'm telling to schools here to use virtualbox over ltsp (one windows installation only) instead of rdp
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| 17:17 | <||cw> IIRC xfreerdp is required if you want win7+ or server 2008+
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| 17:18 | at least, if there's an AD involved
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| 17:24 | <contactwajeeh> its kind of baffled to see that any option i add to the existing set of options gives me a black screen with cursor
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| 17:24 | not sure where I am going wrong
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| 17:24 | if i revert back to my original set of options i get login screen again
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> Start with SCREEN_07=xterm
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| 17:25 | <||cw> and run the rdp command manually...
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| 18:36 | <Guest42002> Hi I'm doing a capstone class in CS and I was thinking about using Ltsp as a project to use legacy equipment in Third World countries as thin clients to new updated servers. In a nutshell instead of supplying new computers to each desk, supply a new server and configure legacy equipment to attach to it. Any ideas and suggestions out there? I'd like to get an idea how the best way to approach this is, what things to make sure that I
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| 18:39 | <bWOLF> Hi I'm doing a capstone class in CS and I was thinking about using Ltsp as a project to use legacy equipment in Third World countries as thin clients to new updated servers. In a nutshell instead of supplying new computers to each desk, supply a new server and configure legacy equipment to attach to it. Any ideas and suggestions out there? I'd like to get an idea how the best way to approach this is, what things to make sure that I incl
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| 18:41 | <vagrantc> ambitious project
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| 18:41 | one thing i would recommend is making sure you know the local resources first
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| 18:42 | i recall a freind going to ghana and getting a bunch of old PIII computers shipped there (with massive problems in shipping, customs, and other logistical nightmares)
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| 18:43 | once they showed up, they found that the local school already had multiple labs full of P4 systems, unopened, in boxes, with dust on them
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| 18:43 | <bWOLF> Fortunately I got a friend that takes care of all the shipping and logistics. After several years of supplying new computers to South American students, he has perfected sort of the process
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| 18:44 | <vagrantc> that's good ... i can't count on both hands the number of good meaning projects that ended up poorly shipping computers around
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| 18:44 | i'd still recommend knowing what your local resources actually are, for real.
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| 18:45 | <bWOLF> He goes down and sets up new computers in classrooms but I was thinking about a less expensive way that has a whole less bulk in shipping and when it comes time to upgrade to newer technology, the server is the only thing that needs upgrading (hopefully)
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> unfortunately, a lot of software doesn't scale well with thin clients anymore
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| 18:45 | mostly, with LTSP, we've been recommending fat clients lately ... still network booted, still centrally managed, but using the resources of the client hardware more
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| 18:46 | fortunately, all computers are a lot smaller these days
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| 18:46 | <bWOLF> A lot of software doesn't scale well within clients anymore? H MM M I'm thinking more like classroom curriculum, Internet access – not much more
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> like, using a web browser?
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| 18:47 | <bWOLF> Yes, and loading the server up with grade school curriculum
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| 18:47 | <vagrantc> web browsers are some of the hardest things to reliably support, because a given website may consume *huge* resources
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| 18:48 | it's hard times for thin clients
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| 18:48 | that said, there's nothing like experimentation
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| 18:49 | if the site is willing to work with limits (e.g. going from no computer access to some computer access) ... you just have to have realistic expectations
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| 18:50 | reliable power can be an issue in some areas ... brownouts can be really hard on computers
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| 18:51 | <bWOLF> Just curious then, if I was to take thin clients off the table for this project because of their limitations, am i stuck with having to take new computers down then or what might you suggest if you were trying to solve this problem of existing legacy equipment and thermal countries and upgrades?
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| 18:51 | <vagrantc> with limited resources, you have to stress test it in as real-world of an environment as you can manage
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| 18:51 | bWOLF: first off, what kind of hardware are you thinking of as legacy hardware?
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| 18:52 | <bWOLF> Existing desktops P2's and better, 200 megs of RAM
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| 18:52 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: another thing people often overlook is responsible disposal of electronic waste ... most third world countries just end up tossing them in dumps where lead, mercury, etc. leaches into the groundwater when they break
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| 18:53 | bWOLF: with only 200MB of ram, they would barely even function as thin clients anymore ...
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| 18:53 | <bWOLF> Yeah I saw that in Nicaragua
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| 18:53 | Upgrading RAM is simple
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| 18:53 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: so, having a real plan for disposal is really important ethically
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| 18:54 | at least, that's my take
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| 18:55 | bWOLF: 1-2GB of ram? you might be able to do thin clients, although the power consumption on hardware older than core-2 systems is really awful
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| 18:55 | <contactwajeeh> alkisg: hi
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| 18:56 | I fixed my issue
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| 18:56 | thanks for your help
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: also, test the hardware before you ship it!
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| 18:58 | <contactwajeeh> SCREEN_07="xfreerdp -f -a 32 --no-nla --ignore-certificate --rfx --plugin rdpsnd xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx"
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| 18:58 | these are the option set that worked, might be useful to somone
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: i'd also honestly price out the shipping of old computers vs. buying newer, smaller (a.k.a. easier-to-ship), faster, lower-power computers.
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| 18:58 | <contactwajeeh> Sound=True
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| 18:58 | also added this
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| 18:59 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: i say this coming from working at a computer reuse organization for 14 years
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| 18:59 | <bWOLF> Lost my connection. Okay, I'll take the points into consideration. You have an idea about how I can get around some of the issues you pointed out or maybe your take on an alternative?
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| 19:00 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: what was the last thing you caught?
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| 19:00 | <bWOLF> You were working at a company reuse organization for 14 years
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| 19:01 | Computer
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: oh, other really, really, really important point that's frequently overlooked is making sure there's local skill to maintain the systems over time, and supporting the already existing IT or training them and following up with them
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| 19:02 | <bWOLF> True
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: it's honestly a really difficult project ... i've seen many of the ways that sort of thing can go wrong ... not a lot of resounding success stories to model
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| 19:03 | <bWOLF> ok thank you
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| 19:04 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: i've been exploring very small, low-power arm systems, but they're even more finicky than your typical x86 systems
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| 19:05 | so, i wouldn't quite recommend those yet
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| 19:06 | <bWOLF> I guess my last question would be
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| 19:06 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: if you can actually get hardware capable of running as LTSP fat clients, i think it becomes much more feasible, at least technically
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| 19:07 | <bWOLF> What is currently the best application for LTS P using thin clients?
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| 19:07 | <vagrantc> the social and logistical problems will always be hard ... but it's also really imprtant work, so ... :)
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| 19:08 | <bWOLF> Are you still there
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> if you've got a very limited environment, where you can design the curriculum around the thin clients, that might work
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| 19:08 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 19:09 | <vagrantc> once you open a web browser, though, all bets are off :)
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| 19:09 | <bWOLF> Define limited environment
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| 19:09 | A LAN?
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> basically, if the curriculum is designed to only use the applications on the server, and the server is capable of handling multiple users at once ... then i could see thin clients working ok
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| 19:10 | but even things like libreoffice are huge resource hogs
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| 19:10 | it really depends on what the goals of having the classroom are
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| 19:11 | <bWOLF> How about setting up a LAN using thin clients and having a separate fat client for accessing the web in the classroom?
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> anything involving video streaming though, is a bad choice for thin clients, for example
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| 19:11 | yeah, a mixed thin and fat environment might work
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| 19:11 | and it's easy to configure in LTSP
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| 19:12 | <bWOLF> Cool. Are there resources online that would show me how to do that?
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> !lts.conf
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| 19:12 | <ltsp> lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> !fatclient
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| 19:12 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'fatclient', but I do know about these similar topics: 'fatclients', 'fatclient-printers'
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> !fatclients
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| 19:12 | <ltsp> fatclients: You may find some info about the Ubuntu/LTSP implementation of fat clients at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> !ltsp-pnp
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| 19:12 | <ltsp> ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 19:12 | <vagrantc> actually, ltsp-pnp is really awesome.
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| 19:13 | that'd be my biggest recommendation
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| 19:13 | basically, you install the server with all the stuff you want, and then you build an LTSP environment out of that
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| 19:13 | and it can autodetect weather to run thin or fat based on ram when it boots
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| 19:15 | if you're running 32-bit clients, you'll need to also install a 32-bit OS on your server, but that should mostly be fine.
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| 19:15 | <bWOLF> Cool. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. I'll let you go for now and get started on this. Is this the best resource to utilize if I get stuck?
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> get your clients up to at least 512MB of ram for thin clients, ideally 1-2GB for fat clients ...
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| 19:15 | irc is good, just be sure t ask questions and wait for a few hours for a response, it's not always active
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| 19:16 | there's also ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
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| 19:17 | bWOLF: out of curiosity, where are you based, and where are you planning on to install these computer labs?
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| 19:17 | <bWOLF> Can you run vMs on thin clients?
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: technically yes, but you're going to be severely resource-constrained
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| 19:17 | especially because older hardware doesn't tend to have hardware virtualization support
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| 19:18 | !map
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| 19:18 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'map', but I do know about these similar topics: 'worldmap'
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> !worldmap
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| 19:18 | <ltsp> worldmap: If you're using LTSP, please let the world know and share your story at http://www.ltsp.org/stories/ Your can add a nice pin to our world map at your location, plus your setup will count towards the global LTSP usage statistics.
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| 19:18 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: if you do get something working nicely, feel free to add it to the worldmap ^^
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| 19:20 | <bWOLF> I'm based out of Portland Oregon and I'm looking for an alternative to help my friend who goes to South America with new desktops. I was thinking, take servers, set up a LAN and use their legacy equipment is thin clients. I can see that there will be potential issues with power reliability, support and potentially a lot of unusable equipment once I get down there. He's all up on the particulars so I can't speak to them right now
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> bWOLF: hah! i'd be happy to meet up sometime, i'm in portland too
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| 19:22 | <bWOLF> Cool. yeah Oregon City. Capstone is for my CSNA @ CCC
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| 19:23 | <bWOLF> I do coffee
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i remember there were a few packages you were hoping to get into debian, but i forget where we left that
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