IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 February 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 02:12 | <DarKnesS_WolF> good morning
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| 02:12 | nubae2: i am testing ur fat client script right now on ubuntu 8.10 :-) one question.. how big the highfat image will be ?
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| 02:41 | <nubae2> morning
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| 02:41 | DarKnesS_WolF: about 1 gig
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| 02:42 | takes a while to build too
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| 02:42 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: okay cool :-)
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| 02:42 | yes
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| 02:42 | i am building it but i had to remove edubuntu stuff from teh script i don't need them right now
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| 02:43 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: right now looking into getting pxeboot.0 to be a small boot menu so i can chose should i go thin client or fatthin client
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| 02:43 | <nubae2> yeah no problem, the idea is to choose only the things u want... lke u can make a kde or xfce version easily too
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| 02:44 | ah right... thats definetly here: help.ubuntu.com/Community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 02:44 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: but i like the plugin so flexable
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| 02:44 | <nubae2> it will be much better next version, everything visual... so u can pick and choose packages with mouse
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| 02:46 | <nubae2> ogra: u have an idea what the edubuntu DVD is going to be filled with?
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| 02:46 | wbat will make up the gigs?
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| 02:46 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: great .
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| 02:47 | nubae2: but now if i did install new application " using the root acount of the ltsp image " i'll need to rebuild the image ? ? don't think so right ?
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| 02:47 | <nubae2> if u use nbd, I'm afraid yes
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| 02:47 | but u can keep a copy of packages using apt-cacher
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| 02:48 | there s something about it also in the help docs, which imo are some of the best help files available for any project...
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| 02:50 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: okay will check but i find that strange i mean if i am accessing the ltsp image as root and installting anything it should be installed in teh chroot /opt/ltsp/fati64 or whatever why then i need to rebuild the image ?
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| 02:56 | <nubae2> because u are loading an image and not the directory
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| 02:57 | if you were to use nfs, it would load directly the directory, and with nbd, it is like it makes a cd image for u
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| 02:57 | btu across the network... the result is that this loads much faster
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| 02:57 | and is more secure
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| 03:03 | <DarKnesS_WolF> nubae2: ok got the idea ..i only need to update the image right ?
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| 03:04 | ltsp-update-image
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| 03:04 | right ?
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| 03:05 | <Ryan52> stgraber, sorry, I didn't get to it today...tomorrow morning I'll try to.
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| 03:28 | <ogra> nubae2, not really, likely what is on the ubuntu DVD plus edubuntu-desktop
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| 03:28 | stgraber, are you aware that your recent change breaks nfs on ubuntu ?
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| 03:29 | stgraber, lts.conf needs to exist (and need to be in the bind mounted files) on nfs setups
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| 03:29 | (unless something massively changed i'm not aware of
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| 03:29 | )
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| 05:04 | <DarKnesS_WolF> mmm
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| 05:04 | nubae2: something not right about the NFS home dir.
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| 05:29 | <Remaille> hi
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| 05:29 | on my thin clients, il would like ton use windows too (we have sift than can't be run with linux)
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| 05:30 | I have heard that it was possible on another tty
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| 05:30 | <Remaille> we have a win 2003 server
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| 05:30 | how to do that ? do you have any links ?
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| 05:30 | thanks
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| 05:54 | <knipwim> johnny: still working on the gentoo port?
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| 06:05 | <DarKnesS_WolF> i have question can i run multi. images on the same LTSP server ? i am always getting kernel panics on one of them and also when i do update the image it is only updateing one image ..
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| 09:55 | <DarKnesS_WolF> anyone did multi OS on the same LTSP server ? i have problem with SSH key if the machine loged to any img. 2nd time it get connection refused and i have to upgrade the sshkeys am i missing anything ?
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| 10:02 | <johnny> knipwim, yes
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| 10:07 | <knipwim> i was wondering what's the way to go for the ltsp installation
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| 10:07 | install ltsp-server from git and do ltsp-build-client?
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| 10:19 | <johnny> knipwim, basically
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| 10:20 | <knipwim> so no need to emerge ltsp-client?
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| 10:20 | <johnny> altho there's one modification to the genkernel script needed
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| 10:20 | no.. please don't
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| 10:21 | <knipwim> what's the modification? the /usr/share/genkernel/x86/modules_load one?
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| 10:22 | <johnny> yes
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| 10:22 | the genkernel initrd stuff needs to be rewritten or somethin
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| 10:23 | so it doesn't manually load everything..
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| 10:23 | and uses more detection
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| 11:13 | <ilaiho> hi!
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| 11:13 | could someone explain what is that "LTSP thick client" thing?
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| 11:15 | <stgraber> ogra: why would not having a lts.conf file break NFS ? the current lts.conf however displayed an ugly error message at every boot ...
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| 11:16 | <ilaiho> does it use the local hard drive as cache?
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| 11:17 | <stgraber> ogra: oh, I guess I understand why it'd break, I'll see what I can put in /etc/lts.conf that won't make the parser to complain :)
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| 11:25 | <johnny> ilaiho, no.. it means that it runs the programs locally
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| 11:25 | using the client's ram and cpu
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| 11:26 | even if it gets the programs themselves from the netowrk
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| 11:28 | <stgraber> ogra: fixed it, that way you get the previous file and also a valid lts.conf
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| 11:35 | * vagrantc dances the debian stable release dance | |
| 11:41 | <Gadi> stgraber: maybe you can put the k12linux default lts.conf there
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| 11:41 | thats already in upstream
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| 11:42 | <vagrantc> Gadi: so, the main problem with the local ltspfs mounting is that it doesn't play well with cdpinger
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| 11:42 | <Gadi> vagrantc: do you know why?
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| 11:42 | <vagrantc> Gadi: nope.
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| 11:43 | <stgraber> Gadi: ./server/configs/k12linux/lts.conf ?
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> cdpinger *should* just call the ltspfs_entry script
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| 11:43 | <vagrantc> but the local mount doesn't respond to insertion/removal events in a predictable fashion, and even interferes with insertion/removal events on the remote ltspfs mounts for CDs
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| 11:43 | Gadi: it *does*
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| 11:43 | <Gadi> stgraber: yeah, I guess - it would be nice for ubuntu to have a default lts.conf with comments
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| 11:44 | <stgraber> Gadi: well, I don't really want my lts.conf to do anything useful :) we have a commented one in /usr/share/doc/ anyway
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| 11:44 | <Gadi> stgraber: no one looks in /usr/share/doc (a) and (b) newbies are quite confused as to the syntax of lts.conf
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| 11:45 | it would cut down on lots of questions to simply have a doc to start with
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| 11:45 | *conf file
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| 11:46 | unless you want to create a man page for lts.conf :P
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| 11:46 | <stgraber> Gadi: man isn't installed in the chroot so wouldn't be that useful :)
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| 11:46 | <Gadi> for the server
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| 11:47 | <stgraber> Gadi: for now I'll go with that empty lts.conf and make sure lts-parameters and the example lts.conf are present on the server. If I have to set a variable to a different value to what we've in LTSP, then I'll probably put it in lts.conf
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| 11:48 | <sepski> are there anything i can do in the chroot to lean up the thin clients ? i have tried 2 different clients now. they both start to lag after a while. I notice this as very varying pingtime between the server and the tk. often between 30-50 ms, pinging from the server to a pc/printer/any other device in the same switch as the tk, gives a rock steady 0.55 ms.
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| 11:48 | <stgraber> Gadi: though current lts.conf points the user to /usr/share/doc on the server so as long as the user actually reads the lts.conf it'll find the doc
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| 11:48 | *he'll
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| 11:49 | hmm, it actually points the user to the in-chroot doc ... I'll need to make sure I haven't moved it to the server :)
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| 11:49 | * Gadi wonders how many users stgraber has talked to recently :) | |
| 11:49 | <Gadi> users cant read
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| 11:49 | its a universal fact of nature
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| 11:51 | <vagrantc> so then they can't read the configuration file either, no? :P
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| 11:51 | need to give them a GUI button that says "
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| 11:51 | "GO"
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| 11:53 | <Gadi> well, it seems like we have the users going on a scavenger hunt to find info
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| 11:53 | <Gadi> when we could just as easily give them stuff to uncomment
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| 11:53 | :)
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| 11:54 | <stgraber> Gadi: well, the main issue there is that lts.conf in the chroot shouldn't be used
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| 11:54 | Gadi: so if you give them things to uncomment they'll just do the wrong thing :)
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| 11:55 | <Gadi> well, shouldn't be used for NBD
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| 11:55 | <stgraber> and NFS
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| 11:55 | <Gadi> you tftp for NFS now, too?
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| 11:55 | <stgraber> as far as I understood, the only reason why it's there is so we can bind-mount on it
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| 11:55 | then NFS will behave the same as NBD
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| 11:55 | with it being overwritten by tftp
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| 11:56 | <Gadi> last I checked, you only tftp in ltsp-nbd
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| 11:56 | but I checked a long time ago
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| 11:56 | :)
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| 11:57 | <stgraber> Gadi: just check the code, it's actually what we're doing at the moment
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| 11:57 | * stgraber is confused by ogra's comment then :) | |
| 11:57 | <Gadi> what is?
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| 11:57 | you are tftp'ing for NFS and NBD?
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| 11:57 | or just NBD?
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| 11:57 | <stgraber> Gadi: downloading lts.conf is done in ltsp_nbd
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| 11:57 | <johnny> if not.. you can.. and that would be nice..
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| 11:58 | <stgraber> johnny: yeah, I'd have to make sure the bind mounting is in place at this point first
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> well, as it seems this is all unclear to the developers, whatever we wind up doing should be nicely commented in lts.conf
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| 11:59 | :)
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| 11:59 | <johnny> it'd be nice if we could all stop bind mounting.. but there's still no perfect solution
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| 11:59 | or even close to it..
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> and if etc/lts.conf remains minimal for bindmounting only, then there should be a l-b-c plugin to generate a nicely commented default tftpdir/lts.conf
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| 11:59 | <sepski> let's see if ndswap helps any :s
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| 12:00 | <stgraber> johnny: the perfect solution would be aufs on top of NFS but last I checked it triggers a kernel panic
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| 12:00 | <johnny> Gadi, and then there will be too many options :)
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| 12:01 | <Gadi> what do you mean?
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| 12:01 | <johnny> stgraber, aufs will not make it to kernel
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| 12:01 | that is the real problem :(
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| 12:01 | Gadi, too many options in lts.conf .. users will not like it :)
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| 12:01 | <stgraber> johnny: right but that's what I'm using anyway for nbd :)
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| 12:02 | * Gadi has never heard a user complain about too many options in a conf file | |
| 12:02 | <johnny> i have..
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| 12:02 | <Gadi> *never*
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| 12:02 | unless the file is confusing
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| 12:02 | <johnny> have trouble finding the necessary options
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| 12:02 | <Gadi> smb.conf is huge by default
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| 12:02 | <johnny> yeah.. i hate that file
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| 12:02 | <stgraber> Gadi: all users who once read squid.conf complained about it containing too many options :)
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| 12:02 | <Gadi> that's why there's a seach feature
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| 12:02 | *search
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| 12:03 | well, warren's k12linux lts.conf file is nicely commented
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| 12:03 | and the k12linux community has never complained of too many options
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| 12:04 | more users are frustrated when their conf file does not work, because of a missing [default]
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| 12:04 | :)
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| 12:04 | <stgraber> Gadi: warren's lts.conf doesn't contain half of the available options :)
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| 12:05 | <Gadi> fine. its better than none
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| 12:05 | dear newbie, I want you to guess as to the lts.conf file format and options
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| 12:05 | :)
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| 12:06 | oh, and location
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| 12:06 | <stgraber> yeah, well, I guess we'll first fix the "Where's lts.conf" question, then talk about its content :)
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| 12:06 | <Gadi> since there is no default file
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| 12:14 | <vagrantc> the NFS implementation on debian does not download lts.conf from TFTP, and i really have little interest in making it do so.
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| 12:14 | <johnny> vagrantc, even if we all asked nicely?
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| 12:15 | <vagrantc> johnny: you're going to have to do more than ask nicely, yes.
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| 12:15 | though probably making a symlink in the tftp dir would work...
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| 12:15 | thta way the location appears the same, even if it isn't actually downloaded via tftp
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| 12:17 | <vagrantc> but the symlink wouldn't work well if they actually need to download via tftp, as tftp servers may not support symlinks outside of the tftp server's "chroot"
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| 12:19 | <Gadi> we could always have a tftp thing in the init scripts
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| 12:19 | <vagrantc> it just seems hairbrained to download something via tftp just for consistancy.
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| 12:19 | there's no technical reason to download lts.conf using tftp for NFS implementations.
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> indeed
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| 12:20 | <vagrantc> in fact, there's a technical argument against it- it adds more code.
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> and more network traffic
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| 12:20 | :)
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| 12:20 | <vagrantc> think of the bytes!
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> poor lil bytes
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> we'll have to set up code to fail on anything less than gigabit networks!
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| 12:24 | <stgraber> ok, so I'll just keep that lts.conf as it's and maybe ship a default /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf. Newbies aren't supposed to do NFS anyway as it's no the default setup and will require more changes than just editing lts.conf in the chroot anyway
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| 12:30 | <Gadi> sounds good to me
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| 12:30 | that will also close the bug I filed against Ubuntu :)
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| 12:31 | * Gadi runs away from stgraber | |
| 12:34 | <stgraber> :)
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| 12:35 | good, I now get a clean boot when usplash is disabled :) (well, except nbd but the reconnect is handled by the kernel so can't silence this one ...)
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| 12:37 | next on my list is checking why ipconfig is so slow ... it currently takes 6s to get the IP and then the system boots in 5s :)
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| 12:37 | <Gadi> wow
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| 12:37 | 5s?
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| 12:37 | <stgraber> well, my thin client is a Core2Duo, it helps :)
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| 12:37 | <Gadi> is this a VM?
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| 12:37 | oh
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| 12:37 | hehe
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| 12:38 | btw, did you sort out the issue with that geode?
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| 12:38 | <stgraber> nope, it's still using the gateway as tftp server ... I guess I'll just redirect the gateway port to the tftp server :)
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| 12:38 | <Gadi> sounds like a config issue
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| 12:39 | <stgraber> maybe it needs another dhcp option than next-server
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| 12:39 | <Gadi> shouldnt be hardware-related
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| 12:39 | <stgraber> well, I don't know I have another geode based thin client with the exact same config on that network and it boots just fine :)
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| 12:39 | <Gadi> unless you are tempted to blame the PXE code in that unit
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| 12:40 | weird
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| 12:40 | but it booted up fine with previous ltsp versions, right?
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| 12:40 | <stgraber> don't know, I found it at the office on thursday :) we couldn't make it to boot at the office and at one of our customers
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| 12:41 | so I brought it back home as I can more easily tweak the network to debug that kind of issue
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> gotcha
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| 12:41 | let me know what you find
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| 12:41 | I know I was having issues with the new geode driver
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| 12:41 | (or maybe with the new xserver who knows)
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| 12:42 | btw: another qu for you:
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| 12:42 | <stgraber> hmm, we have a few hundreds of Geode on Intrepid and they usually work fine
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> have you tested X_VIRTUAL recently?
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| 12:42 | <stgraber> though you must disabled usplash
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| 12:42 | and use the hack.d script in upstream ltsp
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| 12:42 | (basically force the geode driver and XAA instead of EXA)
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> right
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| 12:43 | <stgraber> nope, haven't used VIRTUAL for a while, mainly because except my laptop we don't have any dual-head capable thin clients ...
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| 12:43 | I'm supposed to get a few EEE box this week that should be able to do VGA and DVI with an intel video card
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| 12:43 | <Gadi> have you tested X_VIRTUAL? I was working with _UsUrPeR_ a couple weeks back, and it looked like we may need to change the hack from a "screen_hack" to a "dsiplay_hack" for it to work
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| 12:43 | <stgraber> so will be able too test with them
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| 12:43 | <Gadi> *display
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| 12:44 | <stgraber> hmm, why changing it to display ?
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| 12:44 | <Gadi> that adds a Display subsection to SCrren
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| 12:44 | *Screen
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| 12:44 | and puts it in there
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| 12:44 | <stgraber> ah, yes
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| 12:44 | <Gadi> seems thats what xorg likes
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| 12:44 | but, I remember the current version working for you
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| 12:45 | so, I didnt want to push a change upstream
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| 12:45 | <stgraber> yeah, both work for me
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| 12:45 | <Gadi> ok, so maybe we should change it.
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| 12:45 | <stgraber> I just checked and I have a SubSection display on the installed Ubuntu I have on that laptop
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| 12:46 | http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f2788e6d5
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| 12:46 | I currently have that on my laptop
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| 12:46 | <Gadi> ok, lemme change it then upstream
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| 12:48 | <stgraber> ok, just tried dual-head with that config (I believe it's what Ubuntu auto-generated) and it works fine (using it now)
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| 12:49 | <vagrantc> stgraber: i see ldm 2.0.34 uploaded to ubuntu, but no commits or tags on ldm-trunk...
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| 12:49 | <stgraber> vagrantc: oh, wait a sec
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| 12:49 | doh, works better when pushed :)
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| 12:50 | I guess I tagged this one offline and forgot to push it afterwards ... sorry for that
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| 13:02 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "set volume defaults based on volume if unset" (19 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/249
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| 13:02 | <vagrantc> anyone see an issue with that ^^
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| 13:03 | basically allows setting a relative default for all channels ... although some of those channels play off one-another ...
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| 13:03 | <stgraber> I have no problem with that
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| 13:04 | Gadi: does that change from screen_hacks to display_hacks will create a subsection display in screen or move it to the display section ?
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| 13:05 | <vagrantc> display_hacks is a subsection of screen, so a screen section will be generated if display_hacks is set
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| 13:05 | <Gadi> stgraber: creates a subsection Display and puts Virtual in the subsection
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| 13:05 | <stgraber> good
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| 13:06 | <Gadi> vagrantc: the only issue I see is that VOLUME=PCM_VOLUME=100 will often saturate the speakers
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| 13:07 | you almost never want PCM_VOLUME=100
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| 13:07 | I think
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| 13:07 | perhaps set all of them except PCM_VOLUME to VOLUME by default
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| 13:08 | and keep PCM_VOLUME at a fixed 90
| |
| 13:08 | that would handle more cases well, I think
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| 13:09 | <vagrantc> Gadi: that's a problem if they set VOLUME=100 and don't set PCM_VOLUME ... is that what you're saying?
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| 13:09 | <Gadi> right
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| 13:09 | which I would expect to be common
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| 13:10 | <vagrantc> i was thinking there might be some issue with PCM ...
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| 13:10 | <Gadi> lets max out the master volume
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| 13:10 | I have a script somewhere that actually intelligently finds the channels
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| 13:10 | <vagrantc> i honestly have very little idea what all the channels do, and how they relate to one another
| |
| 13:10 | <Gadi> maybe I can paste that for you to pick at
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| 13:10 | :)
| |
| 13:11 | <stgraber> Gadi: I'd love that :) we've tons of weird sound cards with non-existing channels and similar stuff
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| 13:11 | <vagrantc> well, i should head out to my local debian release party soonish :)
| |
| 13:12 | <johnny> release??
| |
| 13:13 | how soon?
| |
| 13:13 | <ltsppbot> "Gadi" pasted "amixer channel volume set script" (13 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/250
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| 13:13 | <johnny> lol
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| 13:13 | <Gadi> I wrote this, but don't use it in production yet
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| 13:13 | stgraber: feel free to play
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| 13:13 | :)
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> johnny: yesterday?
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| 13:14 | <Gadi> stgraber: I think I wrote it, trying to find something to address VIA and their weird channels
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| 13:15 | <johnny> missed it :)
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| 13:16 | <vagrantc> well, the party is today, the release happened yesterday ... though which exact day depends on your timezone.
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| 13:18 | <stgraber> Gadi: thanks, I'll test it with some of our broken systems :) (VIA and SIS mainly)
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| 13:19 | <Gadi> I was thinking, it may make sense to deal with channels like xrnadr ouputs
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| 13:19 | *xrandr
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| 13:19 | and have a:
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| 13:20 | AUDIO_CHANNEL_01 = "Master"
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| 13:20 | AUDIO_CHANNEL_VOLUME_01 = 100
| |
| 13:20 | etc
| |
| 13:20 | (making VOLUME an alias
| |
| 13:20 | or some such for backward compat)
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| 13:20 | then the script I pasted can easily set the volume if the channel matches
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| 13:21 | and you have limitless flexibility to name channels
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| 13:26 | ah, to be quoted in a changelog... is there any quicker route to immortality?
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| 13:30 | hanthana has quit IRC | |
| 13:30 | <vagrantc> :)
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| 13:40 | <stgraber> Gadi: writing your name anywhere on internet is probably faster :) then google will take care of the immortality part
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| 13:51 | <mistik1> good day #ltsp
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| 14:00 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 14:03 | <sepski> my klient still lagg down after a while's usage nbdswap is active but unused. how can i troubleshoot
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| 14:05 | japerry has quit IRC | |
| 14:11 | <johnny> why do launchpad feeds include newlines in their defintions.. weird
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| 14:11 | or some other odd character
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| 15:18 | <sistemas> hi everyone
| |
| 15:18 | i wanna know about local apps
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| 16:20 | <ogra> stgraber, the nfs bind mounting to make files writable only works for files that actually exist
| |
| 16:21 | stgraber, i fixed the error thats shown with an empty file ages ago, did that get lost in a merge ?
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| 16:21 | <johnny> i haven't see nthat in ages..
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| 16:21 | if you're referring to lts.conf
| |
| 16:21 | err getltscfg
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| 16:21 | <ogra> yes
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| 16:21 | <johnny> uggh.. actually the opposite
| |
| 16:22 | it has errored out for ages
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| 16:22 | <ogra> there is a wrapper script around it in ubuntu that only calls getltscfg if the file is nonempty
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| 16:22 | <johnny> oh.. for ubuntu.. thanks..
| |
| 16:22 | lol
| |
| 16:22 | why not fix getlscfg instead..
| |
| 16:22 | it shouldn't even need a [default] section
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| 16:22 | it should just ignore it
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| 16:22 | everything is default until you get to the first []
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| 16:23 | <ogra> right, that was not possible back then, ubuntu was in deep freeze ... later i forgot about it
| |
| 16:23 | else i would have fixed getltscfg
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| 16:23 | <johnny> you could have fixed it for us :)
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| 16:23 | i don't understand all that lexer stuff going on :)
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| 16:23 | <ogra> in any case the initscript that parses it has that fix for ages, i wonder why stgraber sees the error
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| 16:23 | well its two lines in the script
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> getltscfg even complains for the default lts.conf file (the one with the comments)
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| 16:25 | <stgraber> ogra: no idea, but I got the error on Jaunty ...
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| 16:25 | <johnny> alkisg, and it will.. until getltscfg is fixed
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> I think I can send a patch for the parser file, if you like...
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| 16:25 | <johnny> not just in the init script
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> I've done my share of bison/flex..
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| 16:26 | <sistemas_> please where do i found local apps manual
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| 16:26 | <johnny> alkisg, neat.. go right ahead :)
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> johnny: ok, but lets wait to hear from ogra - maybe he has one already :)
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| 16:26 | <stgraber> ogra: and I don't see anything in the initramfs that actually modifies lts.conf
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| 16:26 | <ogra> # Read in lts.conf entries.
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| 16:26 | if [ -f /etc/lts.conf ] && [ -n "$(grep -v ^# /etc/lts.conf)" ]; then
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| 16:26 | eval $(getltscfg -a) || true
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| 16:26 | fi
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| 16:27 | from ltsp_config in hardy
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| 16:27 | <johnny> that's a lame fix
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| 16:27 | lol
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| 16:27 | <ogra> johnny, thats all you can do in a deep freeze
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| 16:27 | <johnny> yeah.. looks like it got lost
| |
| 16:27 | * johnny puts ogra in deep freeze | |
| 16:27 | <johnny> hehe
| |
| 16:27 | <ogra> as i said, it was a week before release or some such when i added that
| |
| 16:28 | <stgraber> ogra: look at ltsp-core and ltsp-setup, it's not done for these two
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| 16:28 | <ogra> and since it didnt show up anymore i forgot about the error
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| 16:28 | <Gadi> sounds like the default lts.conf file just has a syntax error :P
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| 16:28 | <stgraber> so the init scripts still show the error :)
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| 16:28 | <ogra> Gadi, no, getltscfg spills an error if it finds an empty file
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| 16:28 | <johnny> Gadi, the syntax error is missing [default]
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| 16:28 | <stgraber> Gadi: well, getltscfg fails if the file is empty so ... :)
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| 16:28 | <alkisg> Gadi: did you try to support an empty lts.conf and got reduction warnings in the parser?
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| 16:29 | <johnny> Gadi, my suggestion is it ignore default from now on
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| 16:29 | <stgraber> johnny: nope, you don't need [default]
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| 16:29 | <Gadi> how come the default file is missing [default]?
| |
| 16:29 | :)
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| 16:29 | <johnny> stgraber, you sure?
| |
| 16:29 | i'm pretty sure i ran into that
| |
| 16:29 | <stgraber> johnny: yes
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| 16:29 | johnny: my current file is:
| |
| 16:29 | <Gadi> no wonder none of the newbies know how to make an lts.conf file
| |
| 16:29 | <stgraber> [example]
| |
| 16:29 | key=value
| |
| 16:29 | and it works :)
| |
| 16:29 | <ogra> stgraber, well, it was an ubuntu fix that didnt go upstream because i found it to hackish, a better fix should be found ...
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| 16:29 | <Gadi> what was the old default file?
| |
| 16:30 | <johnny> ah.. ok.. i see
| |
| 16:30 | it just needs something []
| |
| 16:30 | <stgraber> ogra: right, ideally getltscfg should just be fixed :)
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| 16:30 | <johnny> stgraber, but.. can it work with
| |
| 16:30 | key=value
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| 16:30 | [something]
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| 16:30 | key=value
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| 16:30 | <Gadi> no
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| 16:30 | <johnny> that would be nice
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| 16:30 | <Gadi> nor should it
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| 16:30 | <stgraber> ogra: what do you think is best ? adding your grep to all call to getltscfg or use the two-liner I added to the lts.conf ?
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| 16:30 | <johnny> i disagree
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| 16:30 | <ogra> Gadi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/118616/
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| 16:30 | <Gadi> thats not proper ini format
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| 16:30 | <johnny> no need for [default]
| |
| 16:30 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 16:31 | <johnny> oh... proper ini format.. lol
| |
| 16:31 | didn't know we were going for proper ini format..
| |
| 16:31 | <ogra> stgraber, your fix looks cleaner
| |
| 16:31 | <Gadi> ogra: didnt the default file once have: [default] VERSION = blah
| |
| 16:31 | ?
| |
| 16:31 | <ogra> Gadi, in hmm, feisty
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| 16:31 | <Gadi> lol
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| 16:31 | <ogra> in some antique version
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| 16:31 | <Gadi> goes to show you when I last looked ;)
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| 16:32 | see, when you moved from that, it broke!
| |
| 16:32 | :P
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Gadi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file - Parameters may be grouped into arbitrarily-named sections.
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| 16:32 | <stgraber> ogra: ok, I'll drop the grep from ltsp_config and say in the commit that we should fix getltscfg (we'd need a C coder there)
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Notice the "may" word there :)
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| 16:32 | <ogra> stgraber, jammcq or sbalneav should be able to fix it, one of them is upstream :P
| |
| 16:33 | <Gadi> getltscfg is the only code from old LTSP!
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| 16:33 | <ogra> nah
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| 16:33 | <Gadi> it must be preserved and revered
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| 16:33 | :)
| |
| 16:33 | <ogra> there are some script snippets
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| 16:33 | <stgraber> Gadi: I could just write a getltscfg.sh that'd check then start getltscfg but that's even more hackish :)
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| 16:33 | <ogra> yeah, doesnt buy anything
| |
| 16:35 | <stgraber> ogra: I guess that error appeared when I started using upstream's init scripts in Ubuntu
| |
| 16:36 | <ogra> well, the fix was in ltsp_config
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| 16:36 | <stgraber> yeah but for some reason the init scripts also load lts.conf :)
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| 16:36 | <ogra> ugh
| |
| 16:36 | thats messy
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| 16:36 | drop that
| |
| 16:37 | <stgraber> well, that's upstream :)
| |
| 16:37 | <ogra> no, its your cluser hack
| |
| 16:37 | if [ -f "/etc/ltsp/getltscfg-cluster.conf" ]; then
| |
| 16:37 | # Tell the control center that we are booting and get lts.conf
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| 16:37 | eval $(getltscfg-cluster -a -l refresh) || true
| |
| 16:37 | fi
| |
| 16:38 | ltsp-trunk/client/initscripts/ltsp-setup
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| 16:38 | <stgraber> ah right, it's only ltsp-cluster :) so that's fine
| |
| 16:38 | <ogra> ergh
| |
| 16:38 | and ltsp-trunk/client/initscripts/ltsp-core too ?!?
| |
| 16:39 | <stgraber> yeah but not doing the same thing
| |
| 16:41 | <ogra> woah, you actually call it three times
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| 16:41 | <stgraber> yes :)
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| 16:41 | <ogra> in client/screen_session as well
| |
| 16:41 | <stgraber> indeed and screen_session is called every-time X dies
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| 16:41 | so it reloads the config every-time
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| 16:42 | that way we can change SCREEN_ / AUTOLOGIN / ... without rebooting
| |
| 16:42 | <ogra> ah
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| 16:42 | <stgraber> basically first one tells the control center the terminal is booting, next gets the config for SOUND / JETPIPE / ..., next gets the config for the SCREEN_XX and X settings
| |
| 16:43 | the first also sends the hardware information so at the second request it gets the config including hardware-specific variables
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| 16:43 | <ogra> i think it costs about a second to exec getltscfg ....
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| 16:44 | so you add three seconds to your boot ... but well... its cluster ...
| |
| 16:44 | <stgraber> well, what we're deploying now is either VIA C7 or Intel Atom so ... :)
| |
| 16:44 | and we don't affect regular LTSP's boottime
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| 16:45 | ogra: speaking of boottime, something I've noticed on really fast thin clients what's taking the most time is ipconfig
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| 16:46 | ogra: looking at it (and at the switch attached to the client), ipconfig seems to be starting before the interface is up making the first few requests to fail. Any idea on that ?
| |
| 16:46 | ogra: I have some clients where ipconfig takes 6s and then they boot in 5s or so
| |
| 16:46 | <ogra> talk to Keybuk, its his code
| |
| 16:46 | afaik
| |
| 16:47 | <stgraber> k
| |
| 16:47 | <ogra> though it might predate him touching initramfs and it might be from jbailey
| |
| 16:47 | i'm not 100% sure on that
| |
| 16:48 | does debian still use ipconfig ?
| |
| 16:48 | in their nfs code
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| 16:48 | <stgraber> no idea, but would interested by the answer :)
| |
| 16:49 | <ogra> well, vagrant could anser it, but he is probably at a lenny releaseparty
| |
| 16:49 | ;)
| |
| 16:51 | <alkisg> johnny: all that's needed is an "|" in parser.y, like this:
| |
| 16:51 | configuration
| |
| 16:51 | :
| |
| 16:51 | | sections
| |
| 16:51 | ;
| |
| 16:52 | number of conflicts remain the same as before: conflicts: 2 shift/reduce, 1 reduce/reduce
| |
| 16:54 | stgraber: ipconfig has a *lot* of problems, I've send some patches but only one of them got accepted before I "resigned"... :(
| |
| 16:54 | <stgraber> ogra: is it possible to start dhclient from the initramfs ?
| |
| 16:55 | <ogra> you would bloat it and i doubt it will be faster
| |
| 16:55 | <stgraber> ogra: that'd also let us renew our dhcp lease
| |
| 16:55 | <alkisg> ipconfig looses packets, so dhclient would be faster
| |
| 16:55 | <stgraber> one issue I have with ipconfig is that when you have your thin clients weeks without reboot, the IP is re-assigned to another thin client
| |
| 16:55 | making both of them to crash
| |
| 16:56 | <ogra> i would like alkisg's solution but i'm somewhat not feeling good mangling pxelinux.cfg by default
| |
| 16:56 | we tried to avoid that for the default case all the time so i'd not be happy to start with it now
| |
| 16:59 | * alkisg thinks uclibc would be the best path here... but yup, /me knows it can't :( | |
| 16:59 | * stgraber adds dhclient3 to its chroot and does some testing | |
| 17:02 | <ogra> stgraber, we're free to do any hack we like in ltsp_nbd, but nfs is different
| |
| 17:04 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 17:07 | <stgraber> ogra: I can easily skip the networking part of initramfs if required, I just have to do the request before myself and touch /tmp/net-iface.conf
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| 17:10 | <ogra> stgraber, i'm open to anythng in nbd since only we use it ... but nfs needs to be done with debian/ubuntu dev reviews
| |
| 17:12 | <stgraber> ogra: sure, I don't plan on modifying anything outside ltsp if I can do it in ltsp :)
| |
| 17:12 | <alkisg> stgraber: some information from net-iface.conf is needed, e.g. the tftp path to get lts.conf is worked out from the "filename" line in net-iface.conf.
| |
| 17:13 | So if you use dhclient, you'll either have to modify the scripts or generate that file...
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| 17:13 | <ogra> that should be an env var
| |
| 17:13 | handed over by dhcp
| |
| 17:13 | <stgraber> ogra: net-iface.conf is then sourced
| |
| 17:14 | <ogra> sure, but i think filename and rootserver are exported before anyway
| |
| 17:14 | by the kernel
| |
| 17:14 | <alkisg> ogra, I don't think so...
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| 17:14 | humbolt has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:15 | <alkisg> ipconfig gets this info from dhcp, writes it to net-iface.conf, and then it's sourced. IPAPPEND or ipopts has to be used for the kernel to know such things before ipconfig is ran...
| |
| 17:15 | <humbolt> hi guys, how is the ltsp-fat-client project doing?
| |
| 17:15 | <stgraber> ogra: I don't see them in the environment at least
| |
| 17:16 | <ogra> hm, i always thought they are handled like cmdline kernel vars
| |
| 17:16 | <humbolt> As there are all these cheap eeebox pcs out there, I would like to use them as clients and make use of the extra processing power and graphic chips.
| |
| 17:16 | <alkisg> No, only if ipopts=xxx kernel parameter is used :( (which is what IPAPPEND does)
| |
| 17:17 | <humbolt> I found a couple of docs on the matter, but am wondering if there is one ltsp recommended doc?
| |
| 17:18 | <stgraber> ogra: oh, ltsp_nbd is really great for the network part, it's just one line to comment to get rid of the current network code :)
| |
| 17:18 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 17:19 | <humbolt> It is somewhat clear to me, how to get a fat client setup, but I am wondering, if you guys really recommend nbd over nfs in this case, as each software upgrade would require the image to be rebuilt.
| |
| 17:20 | <stgraber> ogra: that dhcp lease renewal thing is currently my #2 bug so if I can just use dhclient, I'll get a lot of happy users :)
| |
| 17:21 | <humbolt> It also appears like a waste of space to me, if I have the dir tree on there and an image of it as well. Makes sense for small thin client images, but for full blown fat systems?
| |
| 17:21 | <ogra> stgraber, if it works, why not
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| 17:21 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:22 | <humbolt> ogra: I remember your ltsp-fat-client blueprint for feisty or what it was back then. Still says deferred. Did you make another attempt for another release?
| |
| 17:22 | <ogra> vagrantc, !!!
| |
| 17:22 | <vagrantc> ogra: hi!
| |
| 17:22 | <ogra> humbolt, i dont do much official ltsp work anymore, stgraber took over most of my duties in ubuntu
| |
| 17:22 | * ogra hugs vagrantc | |
| 17:23 | <ogra> CONGRATS !!
| |
| 17:23 | <vagrantc> yay!
| |
| 17:23 | ogra: thanks!
| |
| 17:23 | <ogra> just in time ...
| |
| 17:23 | * ogra goes afk to celebrate into his b-day :) | |
| 17:24 | <alkisg> Ah! Lenny released on the 14th???!!! Yeah, congrats!!! :)
| |
| 17:25 | <ogra> well, 15th actually
| |
| 17:25 | <humbolt> ogra: I see.
| |
| 17:26 | stgraber: Can you give me an update on LTSP fat client support?
| |
| 17:26 | <stgraber> humbolt: nubae has done some work on that but it's not yet in a state where I'd include it in Ubuntu
| |
| 17:26 | humbolt: http://www.nubae.com/creating-a-low-fat-client-environment-for-ltsp
| |
| 17:28 | good, I get my initramfs to use dhclient, now I need to do the same as ipconfig's /tmp/... file
| |
| 17:28 | I can probably just write a /sbin/dhclient-script for that
| |
| 17:28 | <vagrantc> you'll have to parse dhclient's output/logs and figure out all the correlary variable names ...
| |
| 17:31 | <stgraber> vagrantc: that's what dhclient-script is for AFAIK
| |
| 17:31 | <alkisg> stgraber: if you do include dhclient, please provide an lts.conf parameter for its "require" option! It would make it possible for clients to boot in multiple dhcp server environments. :)
| |
| 17:32 | <stgraber> alkisg: won't work
| |
| 17:32 | <alkisg> Why?
| |
| 17:32 | <stgraber> alkisg: at this point I don't have access to tftp or the nbd
| |
| 17:32 | alkisg: as I'm starting dhclient to get access to the network
| |
| 17:33 | <alkisg> Ah, right, it can't be an lts.conf option
| |
| 17:33 | It has to be in a static file in the chroot. OK... :(
| |
| 17:33 | <stgraber> vagrantc: all variables are in dhclient-script's environment :) I just need it to write to /tmp/ and it should work
| |
| 17:42 | <vagrantc> stgraber: they're the same variables?
| |
| 17:43 | humbolt has quit IRC | |
| 17:43 | <stgraber> vagrantc: no, that's why I'll need a minimal dhclient-scripts to generate that file in /tmp
| |
| 17:43 | <vagrantc> that's what i though :)
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| 17:43 | <stgraber> though, for now I'm trying to understand why I get all the variables from my DHCP except next-server ...
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| 17:44 | <vagrantc> siaddr?
| |
| 17:44 | i've been down this road years ago ... but i haven't touched it since ipconfig has been mostly working
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| 18:27 | <stgraber> argh, won't work ... there is no code in dhclient to get next-server ...
| |
| 18:29 | * stgraber tries other way to speed up the boot process then ... | |
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| 19:21 | <Gadi> stgraber: why does your dhclient in initramfs need next-server?
| |
| 19:24 | <nothingman> we're speeding up boot processes? I wanna watch!
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| 19:25 | <stgraber> Gadi: to get lts.conf
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| 19:29 | hanthana has joined #ltsp | |
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| 19:41 | <Gadi> stgraber: you don't get it from rootserver?
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| 19:41 | or does rootserver rely on next-server?
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| 19:43 | <stgraber> Gadi: ROOTSERVER is a variable exported from ipconfig
| |
| 19:43 | Gadi: which actually is next-server
| |
| 19:44 | I'm currently playing with udhcpc, it's huper-light and does exactly what i need
| |
| 19:44 | only problem is that it's in universe
| |
| 19:44 | and I have real doubt I can get it in main by thursday
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| 19:48 | alekibango has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:48 | <Gadi> stgraber: have you tried dhclient + tftp-server-name?
| |
| 19:49 | <stgraber> Gadi: that probably works though I don't feel like asking all my users to change their dhcp config :)
| |
| 19:49 | <Gadi> asking?
| |
| 19:49 | I thought your configurator does that
| |
| 19:49 | <stgraber> and you'd need next-server + tftp-server-naam ...
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| 19:49 | Gadi: I'm talking about changing it in Ubuntu not only for my customers
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| 19:50 | <Gadi> I thought ubuntu installs a default dhcpd.conf
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| 19:50 | :)
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| 19:50 | <stgraber> :)
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| 19:52 | <Gadi> you could always make a plugin to l-b-c: --use-tftp-server-option
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| 19:52 | :)
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| 19:53 | <stgraber> doh, that thing gets an IP in less than a second :)
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| 19:53 | <Nubae> wtf... johnny u there?
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| 19:54 | I cant find where to set the keyboard anzwhere on the gentoo lived
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| 19:54 | with xfe
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| 19:54 | <stgraber> setxkbmap -layout de ?
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| 19:55 | <Gadi> stgraber: which thing the udhcpdc?
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| 19:55 | <stgraber> Gadi: yeah, udhcpc
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| 19:55 | <Gadi> cool - so you actually have a 7 sec boot?
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| 19:56 | <Nubae> thanks!hpefullyalso valid for the rest off the apps amd mjot just ter,inal
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| 19:56 | <stgraber> something like that yeah :)
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| 19:56 | <Gadi> complete to login screen?
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| 19:56 | <stgraber> yup
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| 19:56 | <Gadi> wow
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| 19:56 | jaunty?
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| 19:56 | <Nubae> ah ??? it is
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| 19:56 | <stgraber> I'm cleaning up the script :)
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| 19:56 | <Gadi> or intrepid?
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| 19:56 | <stgraber> yeah, jaunty
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| 19:57 | <Gadi> does it use the in-kernel modesetting and such?
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| 19:57 | <stgraber> the good thing with that hack is that I don't touch any existing file so I can package it :)
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| 19:57 | <Gadi> you just hack the initramfs hooks and scripts?
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| 19:58 | <stgraber> yeah
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| 19:58 | <Gadi> nice
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| 20:19 | <nothingman> has anyone here done a test thin client using virtualbox?
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| 21:28 | <stgraber> Gadi: from the boot splash to ldm => 12s
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| 21:28 | and you also get real dhcp client that renew its leases :)
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| 21:29 | oh and my thin clients also start a ssh server, it probably slow things down a bit
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| 21:39 | Gadi: I think I'll ship that initramfs script anyway and make it conditional to udhcpc being installed in the chroot
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| 21:39 | so if I can get it in main for Jaunty it'll just be on by default, otherwise you'll just have to install it :)
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| 21:51 | <cyberorg> stgraber, 25s to gnome :) http://hpjansson.org/blag/2009/02/15/shoveling-snow/
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| 21:58 | <stgraber> cyberorg: well, I'm probably under 20s to gnome, it's just that I don't have an appserver around :)
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| 21:59 | <cyberorg> stgraber, work on boot speed by everyone is great news for users, all next editions of distros would be boasting their boot time slashed by half :)
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| 22:00 | <kaos01> hi, trying to get localdevice working in ltsp5, on the client i cansee /var/run/drives/ and on the server I can see /media/$USER but nothing seems to be in neither directories
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| 22:00 | spped up boot -> dont reboot :)
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| 22:00 | <cyberorg> kaos01, install ltspfs package on the server, and if using ubuntu add user to fuse group
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| 22:01 | <kaos01> yes i have ltspfs on server , although i dont have fuse group i just have crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 10, 229 2009-02-06 05:53 /dev/fuse as I had in ltsp4.2
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| 22:03 | <kaos01> well i guess the first problem is that in /var/run/drives/FLASH_DRIVE i cant see the content of my usb
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| 22:04 | <cyberorg> kaos01, that shows up when you access it from the client session
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| 22:04 | * cyberorg got to go | |
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| 22:37 | <nothingman> hi, my ltsp client (a virtualbox vm) hangs on trying to load pxelinux.0
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| 22:38 | <Ryan52> nothingman, that's a familier problem. xD
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| 22:38 | is your tftpd running?
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| 22:38 | is it serving from the right place?
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| 22:38 | can you manually download the file?
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| 22:38 | does it work on physical thin clients?
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| 22:39 | (the third will answer the first two, but ya..)
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| 22:39 | <nothingman> tftpd is running; real clients work fine
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| 22:39 | <Ryan52> hmm.
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| 22:40 | <nothingman> or, at least they did on Friday
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| 22:40 | haven't changed anything since
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| 22:44 | is the prepended / necessary in naming files in dhcpd.conf?
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| 22:57 | <nothingman> seems to me to be the same problem I had with my regular clients early Friday, with PXE-TFTP errors
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| 22:57 | but this just seems to hang
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| 22:58 | <Ryan52> ya, sometimes that happens.
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| 22:58 | when tftpd is broken it sometimes just hangs.
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| 22:58 | so, can you manually download the pxelinux.0?
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| 22:58 | (just from localhost or something)
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| 22:58 | <nothingman> how would I tell?
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| 22:58 | I have no OS running
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| 22:59 | <Ryan52> use a tftp client.
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| 22:59 | <nothingman> just a vm with pxe
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| 22:59 | <Ryan52> ok...
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| 22:59 | but...
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| 22:59 | please use a tftp client (a program) from the server itself.
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| 23:00 | <nothingman> OK
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| 23:01 | I get "unknown host"
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| 23:01 | <Ryan52> what?
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| 23:02 | that's really....irrelevant.
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| 23:02 | <nothingman> using "tftp localhost:/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"
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| 23:03 | also using "tftp 127.0.0.1:/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"
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| 23:04 | <Ryan52> $ tftp asdf
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| 23:04 | tftp> get /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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| 23:04 | Received 15987 bytes in 0.1 seconds
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| 23:04 | tftp>
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| 23:04 | ^^ that's how you use it.
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| 23:04 | <nothingman> sorry, that worked
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| 23:05 | <Ryan52> k. still no clue then.
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| 23:53 | <kaos01> trying to get local devices workingon ltsp5
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| 23:54 | on the client where is the local device soposed to apear ?
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| 23:54 | <johnny> on the desktop usually
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| 23:54 | in gnome
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| 23:54 | <kaos01> well im not gettign that, so i have a shell on the client
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| 23:54 | and trying to see if the device actually got mounted somewhere
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| 23:54 | <johnny> and you are using gnome?
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| 23:54 | <kaos01> yes
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| 23:54 | <johnny> look on the server in /media
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| 23:55 | <kaos01> ok ok , thee is a directory there but access is denied
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| 23:55 | <johnny> you should only be able to access it as the client's user
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| 23:55 | <kaos01> even to root
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| 23:55 | <johnny> yes, that is normal
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| 23:56 | <kaos01> wel laccess is also denied by the user, as group permissions are not set
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| 23:56 | <johnny> so.. open up a terminal IN the logged in session
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| 23:56 | hmm.. what distro?
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| 23:56 | <kaos01> fedora
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| 23:56 | <johnny> Ryan52, you know anything about this?
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| 23:57 | <Ryan52> wasn't paying attention...lemme read teh backlog real quick.
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| 23:58 | <Ryan52> hmm. no clue.
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| 23:59 | <kaos01> can i ask this, is the local device (in this case my usb stick) soposed to get mounted on the client somewhere ?
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| 23:59 | so if i have a shell open on the client shoudl i see it mounted somewhere ?
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| 23:59 | <johnny> it should be in /media on the server
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| 23:59 | gnome looks there
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| 23:59 | <kaos01> im mean ton the client
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