IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 March 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:56 | <warren> cyberorg, hmm, I didn't think the fedora spec would be anywhere near usable on suse
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| 00:56 | <cyberorg> warren, it worked after those changes :)
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| 00:56 | <warren> cyberorg, I named some stuff "k12" thinking it would be Fedora/RHEL stuff, but if it works on SuSE then we need a different name.
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| 00:57 | "notdebian"? =)
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| 00:57 | <cyberorg> i just worked on getting rpm building, i dont know what k12 things are
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| 00:58 | <warren> cyberorg, another problem is that the more conditionals I have in the spec, especially non-fedora conditionals, the more likely it will be rejected by fedora package review.
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| 00:58 | cyberorg, some of your changes make a lot of sense, like s/i386/thatmacro/
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| 01:00 | <cyberorg> warren, upstream rpm spec would have many distro conditionals, check out the spec files used on opensuse build service, they build packages for rhel, fedora, centos, mandriva, and debs for ubuntu and debian
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| 01:01 | <warren> cyberorg, I was thinking we either need to rip out the spec from upstream (like debian ripped out the debian directory) or have multiple distro-specific specs
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| 01:01 | cyberorg, but if it REALLY does work with those simple changes then we can try to keep it unified.
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| 01:02 | <cyberorg> at least they built the packages :)
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| 01:02 | <warren> I'll first add some of the changes that make lots of sense
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| 01:02 | <cyberorg> http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/repodata/
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| 01:04 | <warren> #
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| 01:04 | + %if 0%{?suse_version}
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| 01:04 | #
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| 01:04 | + install -m 0644 /usr/share/syslinux/pxelinux.0 $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_tftpdir}/ltsp/i386
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| 01:04 | this could be written with a conditional that looks for filename instead of suse macro
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| 01:04 | if [ -e /path/to/file]; then
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| 01:05 | <cyberorg> yup, brb
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| 01:05 | <warren> SYSLINUXDIR=
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| 01:07 | cyberorg, does suse's rpmbuild have a predefined %{dist} macro?
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| 01:10 | <cyberorg> warren, what does it do?
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| 01:11 | <warren> cyberorg, Fedora 8 packages have %{dist} defined to .fc8
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| 01:11 | .fc9
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| 01:11 | etc.
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| 01:11 | RHEL5 is .el5
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| 01:11 | <cyberorg> wouldn't that be suse_version?
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| 01:12 | no we dont have dist
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| 01:12 | <warren> hmm
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| 01:12 | maybe I'll get the package review done this weekend BEFORE the suse macros go in
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| 01:12 | <cyberorg> having a dist makes rhel engineers lazy, they still have many fc rpms on rhel media
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| 01:12 | <warren> so the reviewers don't notice
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| 01:13 | cyberorg, that's intentional
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| 01:13 | RHEL forks off from Fedora occasionally
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| 01:13 | and there is no reason to rebuild many of the packages
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| 01:13 | <cyberorg> yeah, but at least they should change the dist :P
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| 01:13 | <warren> Nah
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| 01:13 | no reason to do so
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| 01:14 | <cyberorg> k :)
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| 01:14 | <warren> #
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| 01:14 | +for arch in %ix86 x86_64 ppc ppc64; do
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| 01:14 | #
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| 01:14 | + mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_tftpdir}/ltsp/$arch
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| 01:14 | Is this really a good thing?
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| 01:15 | you have tftp dirs named i586 and i686?
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| 01:16 | <cyberorg> it gave error here as it was looking for i486 on my machine
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| 01:18 | <warren> cyberorg, you need to edit the scripts to redirect i486 i586 or i686 to i386
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| 01:18 | there's no good reason to have all archs have their own tftp directory
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| 01:19 | <cyberorg> warren, yup we should just have i386, x86_64
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| 01:19 | <warren> cyberorg, why does suse's RPM buildrequire both tftp and tftp-server?
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| 01:20 | cyberorg, does your tftp-server have /etc/xinetd.d/tftp too?
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| 01:20 | <cyberorg> it doesnt, just tftp
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| 01:20 | yes, it is there
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| 01:20 | <warren> oh, I see.
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| 01:20 | <cyberorg> we dont have tftp-server package
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| 01:21 | <warren> you have a syslinux package?
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| 01:21 | <cyberorg> yes
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| 01:22 | see how good multi distro rpm spec file look like :) https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=apache2.spec&package=apache2&project=Apache
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| 01:23 | <warren> Fedora disallows complicated multi-distro spec files
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| 01:23 | I'll incorporate most of your changes
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| 01:23 | but we may have to fork after this weekend
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| 01:23 | especially because a lot of my scripts might not apply to you
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| 01:23 | the K12_DIST part totally doesn't apply to you
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| 01:23 | <cyberorg> yeah
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| 01:25 | <warren> #
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| 01:25 | +for arch in %ix86 x86_64 ppc ppc64; do
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| 01:25 | #
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| 01:25 | + mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_tftpdir}/ltsp/$arch
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| 01:25 | yeah, can't do this
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| 01:25 | because it would create too many directories
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| 01:25 | <cyberorg> i had different spec file for each ltsp packages (ltspfs, ltsp-client, ldm) i'll see if i can make single one like this
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| 01:25 | <warren> cyberorg, suse's base x86 RPM arch is i486?
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| 01:25 | no
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| 01:25 | <cyberorg> may be you can i686
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| 01:26 | <warren> cyberorg, I have different spec files for each of those because they each have their own source repository
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| 01:26 | cyberorg, if you build a 32bit x86 package what is the default arch?
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| 01:26 | i386?
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| 01:26 | <cyberorg> i586 mostly
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| 01:28 | <warren> cyberorg, our compiler guys did testing and we found that binaries built using i386 compatible instructions but i686 optimized are actually FASTER than i486 or i586 instructions on a i686 chip.
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| 01:28 | cyberorg, confusing huh?
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| 01:29 | cyberorg, very few of our packages are built not-i386. i586 and i686 kernel. i686 glibc, openssl. that's about it.
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| 01:30 | cyberorg, I would be focused helping me to fix things like ldm, because a change coming will break it on ALL distros.
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| 01:30 | cyberorg, (ldm uses X -ac which is totally wrong)
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| 01:30 | ldm never used x authentication
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| 01:30 | <cyberorg> ftp://ftp-1.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/server%3A/ltsp/openSUSE_10.3 packages are i586 and x86_64
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| 01:31 | ssh -X automatically sets up xauth?
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| 01:31 | <warren> cyberorg, not in the way that we want
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| 01:31 | cyberorg, but something similar we will need to implement in ldm
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| 01:32 | cyberorg, cyberorg, after this weekend, I'm proposing that we create a ltsp-trunk/rpm directory that contains different spec files. Then mkdst will use your distro's spec file from that directory if $name.spec is missing from the base directory.
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| 01:33 | cyberorg, I just pushed a new ltsp.spec to ltsp-trunk. Go ahead and rebase your changes on top of that.
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| 01:33 | perhaps
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| 01:33 | ltsp-trunk/rpm/k12linux/ltsp.spec
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| 01:33 | ltsp-trunk/rpm/opensuse/ltsp.spec
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| 01:36 | cyberorg, along with that change I'm going to move more directories around and create new hierarchies
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| 01:36 | cyberorg, so it becomes more organized
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| 01:36 | cyberorg, so I would recommend forking your RPM spec after all the movement
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| 01:36 | <cyberorg> that is the problem, lsb_release -i shows Distributor ID: SUSE LINUX (with space) vagrant did say something about doing tr " " "_"
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| 01:37 | <warren> cyberorg, I recommend eliminating lsb_release
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| 01:37 | cyberorg, have your package hardcode a replacement string at RPM build time
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| 01:38 | lsb_release is one of upstream's bad ideas. I've completely got rid of that dependency from Fedora's LTSP
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| 01:39 | cyberorg, does suse use /etc/sysconfig/$foo files?
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| 01:39 | <cyberorg> i guess we should remove all distro specific stuff out, and just have Makefile that installs stuff
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| 01:39 | yeah, we use that a lot, yast depends on it :)
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| 01:41 | <warren> cyberorg, that is one possible option, but the Makefile would become the ugly one
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| 01:41 | cyberorg, and Makefile syntax is more difficult to work with than RPM syntax
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| 01:42 | I'm liking the idea of ltsp-trunk/rpm/$DISTRONAME/ltsp.spec
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| 01:42 | <cyberorg> top level Makefile will be ugly, but it can be used to create rpms too
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| 01:42 | <warren> cyberorg, have you been trying mkdst --testrpm?
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| 01:42 | <cyberorg> yeah, that is what i used to create the packages you see on my server
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| 01:42 | <warren> cyberorg, the entire point of mkdst is because ogra didn't want garbage like --testrpm in the Makefile
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| 01:42 | cyberorg, I can easily modify mkdst so it can optionally handle rpm/$DISTRONAME/ltsp.spec
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| 01:43 | <cyberorg> make rpm, make deb could go in Makefile
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| 01:43 | <warren> cyberorg, mkdst is supposed to support deb too one day
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| 01:43 | <cyberorg> yeah mkdst --suserpm mkdst --fedorarpm
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| 01:43 | <warren> cyberorg, another reason why we want to implement it in mkdst instead of the Makefile is you can have all the logic elsewhere and not duplicated
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| 01:44 | cyberorg, so you can use mkdst on 20 different source repositories
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| 01:44 | cyberorg, i'm not sure about --suserpm, might be a good idea
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| 01:44 | I'm also thinking about decoupling tagging from mkdst... because nobody uses it, and if people did use it the tool doesn't make it easy to use it correctly.
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| 01:44 | <cyberorg> one mistake i made was copy ltsp-trunk/mkdst in bin/ and had my cup over 50% for a long time till i realized that i had to download another utility
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| 01:45 | *cpu
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| 01:45 | <warren> You should make a mkdst RPM
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| 01:45 | you can use mkdst to make itself =)
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| 01:45 | Yeah, I think I'll start adapting mkdst to be cross-distro compatible tomorrow
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| 01:45 | at least both of us
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| 01:45 | cyberorg, please try the mkdst.spec and send me any changes you need to make it suse compatible.
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| 01:46 | <cyberorg> ok, i'll get working on it right away
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| 01:48 | warren, everything looks ok, except make install DESTDIR=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT, we have %makeinstall macro for that
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| 01:48 | but that is fine too
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| 01:49 | <warren> cyberorg, %makeinstall doesn't work consistently so I hard coded it in that spec just to be safe.
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| 01:49 | <cyberorg> k, it is fine
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| 01:54 | warren, is mkdst only for ltsp of any VCS/bzr project?
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| 02:02 | cp -pr README-release.conf COPYING Changelog /var/tmp/mkdst-0.0.0_080308-1-root-root/usr/share/doc/packages/mkdst
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| 02:02 | cp: cannot stat `Changelog': No such file or directory
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| 02:02 | warren, you need to touch Changelog
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| 02:38 | <cyberorg> captain_magnus, are you going to stick around?
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| 02:38 | <captain_magnus> cyberorg: Today? For a bit...
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| 02:39 | <cyberorg> i meant you dropped of twice in a minute from the channel :)
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| 02:39 | <captain_magnus> Yeah, made a few changes to xchat which required a restart :-)
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| 02:48 | <cyberorg> warren, here are the spec files i am using, let me know what changes are required to build on fedora http://cyberorg.kicks-ass.org/ltsp/spec/
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| 06:17 | <markit> hi, forgive my ignorance, but I have a virtual machine that exports screen through VNC, and would like to have a thin client to connect with it
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| 06:17 | is it possible setup ltsp in a way that the thin client runs vnc instead of kdm/gdm?
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| 06:17 | I mean, that connects to a certain vnc screen instead of regular X-Window?
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| 07:40 | <mnemoc> markit: i don'T know much about ltsp yet, but take a look into http://www.karlrunge.com/x11vnc/
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| 07:59 | <stgraber> markit: you certainly can write a LTSP screen script to connect to your vnc server
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| 07:59 | markit: you'll need to install vncviewer in the chroot, write the script and set a screen to use it (using lts.conf)
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| 08:32 | allerbest has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:32 | <allerbest> Hi!
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| 08:32 | I've got a problem with LTSP & Edubuntu 7.10.
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| 08:33 | I created an environment for i386 on a amd64 machine.
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| 08:33 | Clients boot the kernel well, until ...
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| 08:33 | http://www.it42.de/temp/edubuntu_pxe_1.png
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| 08:33 | this state.
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| 08:33 | But the root path mentioned there is filled with bin, sbin, etc, var, usr etc.
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| 08:34 | Nothing suspicious in syslog. Any hints where to look for problems?
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| 08:34 | (sorry, I'm not a native speaker)
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| 08:35 | <laga> that's an interesting error
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| 08:35 | allerbest: so /root exists and /root/sbin/init exists as well?
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| 08:36 | <allerbest> you mean the /root as a client? This maps to /opt/ltsp/i386.
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| 08:36 | root@lhserv:~# ls -la /opt/ltsp/i386/sbin/init
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| 08:36 | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 88672 2007-09-17 04:14 /opt/ltsp/i386/sbin/init
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| 08:37 | (superfluous -a switch, please ignore :-)
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| 08:37 | <laga> no, on the client itself. when it shows you the initramfs prompt
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| 08:37 | <allerbest> ah, mompl
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| 08:38 | /root is there, containing 'cow' and 'rofs'
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| 08:38 | <laga> allerbest: on the server, do you have /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img ?
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| 08:39 | <allerbest> /sbin is there, containing swapon, usplash_write, pkill and so on, but not 'init'
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| 08:39 | <laga> and there's no /root/sbin/ ?
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| 08:40 | <allerbest> laga: root@lhserv:~# ls -l /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 08:40 | -rwxr--r-- 1 root root 146919424 2008-03-06 15:28 /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 08:40 | <laga> allerbest: do you have a corresping entry for nbdrootd in /etc/inetd.conf ?
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| 08:41 | <allerbest> See <http://www.it42.de/temp/edubuntu_pxe_2.png>
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| 08:41 | mompl
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| 08:42 | inetd.conf:
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| 08:42 | 2001 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img
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| 08:42 | Seems to be fine.
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| 08:42 | <laga> what's running in port 2001?
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| 08:42 | err
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| 08:42 | <laga> 2000
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| 08:42 | sorry
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| 08:43 | <allerbest> laga: 2000 stream tcp nowait nobody /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/nbdrootd /opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img
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| 08:43 | laga: But I renamed the amd64 path in /opt/ltsp because I only have i386 clients
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| 08:43 | I didn't know where this is anchored, so I choose this bad way to disable amd64
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| 08:44 | Is it better to comment the port 2000 line out?
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| 08:44 | <laga> i'm a bit stumped and i don't remember the exact details how LTSP worked out the correct port & pxe boot path..
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| 08:44 | allerbest: i'd remove the 2000 line completely and let the i386 nbdrootd run on port 2000
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| 08:44 | maybe that helps
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| 08:46 | <allerbest> I'll try that, mompl
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| 08:47 | how do I reload the (x)inetd after modifying the inetd.conf? Or is it read on the fly?
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| 08:47 | <laga> sudo /etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd restart
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| 08:47 | something like that
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| 08:48 | <allerbest> thanks
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| 08:48 | * allerbest was looking for /etc/init.d/inetd or xinetd, but not for openbsd-* :-) | |
| 08:48 | <allerbest> Ha!
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| 08:48 | <laga> been there, done that :)
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| 08:48 | <allerbest> It is booting!
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| 08:48 | <laga> yay
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| 08:49 | <allerbest> Jabbadabbaduuu!
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| 08:49 | laga: Thanks a lot, YMMD!
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| 08:49 | <laga> yeah, it was probably talking to port 2000 and didn't get a nice squashfs there
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| 08:49 | np :)
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| 08:58 | <allerbest> laga: Now installing all required applications. Thanks again & bbl!
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| 09:25 | <rage7> hi
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| 11:04 | <vagrantc> ok, so i've got all sorts of patches to upload :)
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| 12:35 | <vagrantc> otavio: who was it i should talk to regarding mips builds for ltsp and ldm ?
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| 12:36 | <otavio> vagrantc: tbm, aurel32 or ths at #debian-boot on oftc
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| 12:42 | * ogra_cmpc curses apt-proxy | |
| 12:42 | <laga> apt-cacher?
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| 12:43 | <ogra_cmpc> nope, apt-proxy
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| 12:43 | <laga> yeah, i was suggesting apt-cacher :) i have used it a few times lately and it seems to work fine here..
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| 12:43 | <ogra_cmpc> does it re-use an existing cache ?
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| 12:43 | (an apt-proxy one)
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| 12:44 | <laga> you can probably configure it to do that.. let's see
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| 12:44 | <ogra_cmpc> i'm not really after rebuilding 10G of packagecache
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| 12:45 | <laga> Q: Can I just copy some .debs into the cache dir and have it work (precaching)?
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| 12:45 | A: Almost! A bit additional work is also required to make them useable and persistent in the cache.
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| 12:45 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm, i nfs mounted the cache for the other server locally ... running apt-proxy on localhost seems to work now
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| 12:45 | <laga> looks like it'd work
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| 12:45 | ah, good
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| 12:45 | <ogra_cmpc> s/for/from/
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| 12:45 | * ogra_cmpc wasted nearly the whole day on that crap ... sigh | |
| 12:46 | <laga> damn, you could have uploaded LTSP in that time ;)
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| 12:47 | <ogra_cmpc> i would be so happy if i had time for even looking at one line ltsp code
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| 12:47 | <laga> heh
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| 12:47 | * ogra_cmpc needs to have some of the classmate stuff ready by monday | |
| 12:47 | * laga is currently finishing the GUI for mythbuntu-diskless | |
| 12:47 | <laga> ogra_cmpc: good luck
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| 12:47 | <ogra_cmpc> same to you
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| 12:48 | even though i suppose you dont have a deadline ... so yours might rather be fun
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| 12:48 | <laga> true
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| 12:50 | <ogra_cmpc> ah, at least the openoffice packages are a third smaller in hardy ...
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| 12:50 | * ogra_cmpc hugs dpkg with lzma | |
| 12:50 | <laga> ooh, nice
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| 12:51 | * laga wants squashfs with lzma | |
| 12:51 | <ogra_cmpc> yeah, since two weeks or so
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| 12:52 | lzma has a fat CPU overhead while decompressing ... not sure you would be happy with lzma squashfs
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| 12:52 | its trading speed for compression rate
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| 12:52 | <laga> true, but all hose live cd guys seem to be happy with it
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| 12:52 | s/hose/those/
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| 12:53 | <ogra_cmpc> where ?
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| 12:53 | <laga> my clients will usually be a bit fatter than the typical LTSP client
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| 12:53 | * ogra_cmpc wasnt aware there was a kernel module with lzma support | |
| 12:53 | <laga> oh
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| 12:53 | <ogra_cmpc> i know that wont be in ubuntu
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| 12:53 | <laga> no, not in ubuntu
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| 12:53 | http://www.squashfs-lzma.org/
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| 12:53 | <ogra_cmpc> ah
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| 12:54 | the prob is that the upstream kernel guys want to only support a single compression system
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| 12:54 | <laga> yeah, who needs more than 650kb anyways.
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| 12:54 | s/650/640/
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| 12:56 | <ogra_cmpc> you can make billions with such sentences :P
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| 12:56 | <laga> yay, i'm gonna be rich
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| 12:56 | <vagrantc> otavio: although, i have to make a new LDM upload fixing an RC bug anyways ...
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| 12:56 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, did you happen to get around testing ldm without the -ac ?
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| 12:57 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yes, i just posted to ltsp-developer about it.
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| 12:57 | <ogra_cmpc> got no mail access here
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| 12:57 | does ltspfs work ?
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| 12:57 | thats the only thing i could imagine to break
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| 12:57 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: basically, drop -ac and drop xauth. ltspfs works, sound works.
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| 12:57 | <ogra_cmpc> drop xauth ???
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| 12:57 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i also included in the patch to add -ac with LDM_DIRECTX...
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| 12:58 | ogra_cmpc: it's not using xauth anyways.
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| 12:58 | <ogra_cmpc> huh ?
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: it's *never* used xauth, because we've been using -ac, which supercedes xauth.
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| 12:58 | <ogra_cmpc> i get the cookie stored in roots Xauthority with xauth list
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> you sure do.
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| 12:58 | <ogra_cmpc> so its using xauth
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| 12:58 | it never took effect because of -ac
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> no, you just have an un-used cookie in root's Xauthority file
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| 12:59 | <ogra_cmpc> but it will if we drop -ac
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> and if you try to use it, it breaks.
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| 12:59 | <ogra_cmpc> hmm
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> having TESTED this, i tell you drop xauth.
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| 12:59 | <ogra_cmpc> oki
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| 12:59 | i will
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> so here's the part i'm unsure about ...
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| 13:00 | it gives a message somewhere along the line of "no valid xauth data found, generating fake data" ... what i don't know is if that xauth data is predictible and thus insecure... or randomly generated and not stored anywhere and thus, very secure.
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| 13:01 | but it does prevent people from writing/reading to the display
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| 13:01 | <ogra_cmpc> do you get it as well if you keep xauth in ?
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> so it's certainly a step up, if still flawed.
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| 13:01 | <ogra_cmpc> (i dont)
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> it breaks if i try to keep xauth
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| 13:01 | <ogra_cmpc> could that be readonly /root ?
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| 13:01 | <vagrantc> no, i've been testing with /root rw
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| 13:01 | <ogra_cmpc> i can write to that
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| 13:02 | <vagrantc> long-term, i thikn we just have to figure out xauth properly ... because we'll need that for local apps and such
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| 13:02 | but for now, i have a few line patch which seems to at least improve, if not fully fix the issue.
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| 13:03 | <mnemoc> warren said something about a conflict on how ldm and xauth works
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| 13:04 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, fedora changed the mechanism between teh releases apparently
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| 13:04 | works in the lqast version but doesnt in the devel
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| 13:04 | <ltsppbot> Someone pasted "only enable "-ac" in directx mode, comment out call to create_xauth" (22 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/461
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| 13:04 | <vagrantc> that was me
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| 13:04 | * ogra_cmpc waves to someone | |
| 13:05 | <vagrantc> that patch works for me ...
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| 13:05 | <ogra_cmpc> cross your fingers i'll not run out of ram ...
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| 13:05 | <vagrantc> that's from current ldm-trunk ... but i think it should apply to the version in debian or ubuntu
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| 13:05 | * ogra_cmpc starts a browser | |
| 13:05 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:06 | <mnemoc> do you know if "upstream" plans to make a tarball release on day?
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| 13:07 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, xorgh ?
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| 13:07 | they do
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| 13:07 | * vagrantc wonders if LTSP will ever make an upstream release | |
| 13:08 | <ogra_cmpc> well, thats what mkdst is for ... and we should set a version at least
| |
| 13:08 | so at least branching off something into a stable branch or so should hapopen
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| 13:08 | <mnemoc> and tagging the versions :p
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| 13:08 | <ogra_cmpc> vagrantc, loks good to me, even though i'd like to find out why xauth doesnt work
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| 13:09 | Demon has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:09 | <vagrantc> well, apparently ltsp5 has been handed over to the distros ... so should we just say, for now, that fedora + debian + ubuntu is the ltsp cabal and we can collectively make a release happen? :)
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| 13:09 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, thats not necessary if you branch off
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| 13:09 | right
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| 13:09 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i'd like to figure it out too, but i also really just want it fixed.
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| 13:09 | <ogra_cmpc> as long as ltspfs and sound keep working in default mode i'm happy
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| 13:09 | <vagrantc> that's just a huge security flaw that i'm ashamed i didn't fight harder about years ago.
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| 13:09 | <ogra_cmpc> directx is unsafe as hell anyway
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| 13:10 | yeah
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| 13:10 | Demon is now known as Vorlock | |
| 13:10 | <ogra_cmpc> what bothers me most is that it was carried over from python
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| 13:10 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: if one forks it's own branch you need to invest much more work than just trusting upstream, and most non-major distributions can't afford that
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| 13:10 | <ogra_cmpc> so we all could have seen it
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| 13:10 | <Vorlock> hi
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| 13:11 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, *we* (upstream) will fork off a brach we will call stable ... that branch wont change then
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| 13:11 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: great :)
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| 13:11 | <ogra_cmpc> thats what i mean with forking :)
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| 13:11 | the -trunk branches were supposed to be moving targets
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| 13:12 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: that's exactly we i fear to use it :p
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| 13:12 | s/we/why/
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| 13:12 | <ogra_cmpc> if we all agree we think its stable we'll branch off a snapshot (ltsp-5.2 or so )... development will go on in trunk
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| 13:12 | mnemoc, who is we ?
| |
| 13:13 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: it was a typo, but i want to integrate ltsp5 in opensde.org, a framework to build and maintain custom distributions for multiple architectures
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| 13:14 | <ogra_cmpc> ugh
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| 13:14 | thats a challenge
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| 13:14 | ltsp5 relies pretty much on stable policies and rules the distro sets ...
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| 13:15 | doing that on a moving target that can build custom stuff is very tricky i guess
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| 13:17 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: that's why prefer to "trust" upstream, and minimize patching, so we (a very small comunity) can focus on making the agnostic integration easy for poeple using opensde to maintain their specilized distributions
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| 13:17 | <Vorlock> where you download ltsp5 ? on main page (ltsp.org) last version is 4.2
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| 13:17 | <mnemoc> Vorlock: https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
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| 13:17 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, well, look at the code its exactly built for doing your own thing through distro specific plugins
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| 13:18 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: yes, v5 is very friendly in that sense
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| 13:18 | <ogra_cmpc> Vorlock, ltsp5 is supposed to be implemented by your distro
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| 13:18 | <Vorlock> mnemoc thnks
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| 13:18 | <ogra_cmpc> Vorlock, what are you using ?
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| 13:20 | <Vorlock> ogra_cmpcwhere i'm working we using asplinux11.2 and asplinux 12 (carbon) & ltsp 4.2 (tried)
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| 13:20 | but i have some questions on ltsp :(
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| 13:21 | <ogra_cmpc> Vorlock, there is no ltsp5 version for rpm based distros yet, fedora is working ard on getting it there and there is a beta version somewhere (warren might be able to tell you where)
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| 13:21 | (seeimg asp is rpm based)
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| 13:22 | *seeing
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| 13:22 | <Vorlock> i'm from Ukraine :) my English not very well as you :)
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| 13:23 | <mnemoc> i'm more exotic, i'm from chile :)
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| 13:23 | * ogra_cmpc is german | |
| 13:24 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: most people in free software seems to be german
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| 13:24 | <Vorlock> Asplinux 12 based on FC7, if ltsp5 work on FC then work on ASP12, may be...
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| 13:25 | <ogra_cmpc> Vorlock, its supposed to be in the next fedora release
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| 13:25 | Vorlock, wait for warren he has packages
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| 13:26 | <Vorlock> Germany - my blue idea :)
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| 13:26 | | |
| 13:26 | sorry, hight dream
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| 13:27 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, european would probably be true ... :) i think there are more OSS devs in the uk
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| 13:30 | oooh, yippie ... finally the first apt-proxy run that works i 6h of fiddling
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| 13:30 | <Vorlock> next version it's good, but my corporation is working only asp :( & what are you using ?
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| 13:30 | <ogra_cmpc> ubuntu
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| 13:30 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: really? at least in IRC i haven't met any brit yet
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| 13:31 | <ogra_cmpc> i do that all the time :)
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| 13:31 | <mnemoc> :)
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| 13:31 | <ogra_cmpc> (many of my colleagues are brits)
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| 13:33 | <Vorlock> in you company using free software? not MS ?
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| 13:34 | <ogra_cmpc> we're writing free software :)
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| 13:34 | * mnemoc assumes ogra_cmpc works for canonical | |
| 13:34 | <stgraber> ogra_cmpc: really ? I would have said that most UK based people from Canonical were more doing management stuff and tech guys would be mainly Germany/US based (at least for people I work with)
| |
| 13:35 | <ogra_cmpc> stgraber, the distro team was 1/3 german 1/3 uk and 1/3 rest of the workld for quite some time
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| 13:35 | that changed with the recent growth of the company
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| 13:35 | there are more us based people now
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| 13:35 | <Vorlock> US it's Unated States ?
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| 13:35 | <ogra_cmpc> yes
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| 13:35 | <Vorlock> thnks
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| 13:41 | <stgraber> btw, as we already are off-topic :) Does one of you know how to change contrast/brightness of a laptop LCD ? (I already know xgamma and it doesn't help)
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| 13:41 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: when do you think an "stable" branch of ltsp{,fs} and ldm may appear? days? weeks? months?
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| 13:42 | <vagrantc> there are many stable branches :)
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| 13:42 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, well, for ubuntu we have stable sources since 2.5 years
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| 13:42 | debian since about 1.5
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| 13:42 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: i mean from ltsp itself
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| 13:42 | <vagrantc> mnemoc: the main thing is what do you mean by "stable"
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| 13:42 | <ogra_cmpc> right
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| 13:43 | <ogra_cmpc> stable means properly integrated with a distro
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| 13:43 | else it cant be satble
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| 13:43 | <vagrantc> there has been no release of ltsp from ltsp.org since 4.2
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| 13:43 | <ogra_cmpc> *stable
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| 13:44 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: in this case i mean "if the proper integration with the distro is implemented, it will work fine"
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| 13:44 | ogra_cmpc: -trunk has at least the xauth problem with is distro-independent
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| 13:44 | which*
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| 13:44 | * Vorlock reading documentations | |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> !integration
| |
| 13:44 | <ltspbot`> vagrantc: "integration" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> that's got some old URLs, especially for bzr branches ... but the basic idea is there.
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| 13:47 | <mnemoc> vagrantc: i'm doing that (actually doing bzr integration first), i'm talking about an "stable" upstream i can use (without branching) as base for my integration
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> mnemoc: and i'm telling you that upstream hasn't made any mention of making an upstream release any time in the near future.
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| 13:48 | it's basically left to the distros
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| 13:48 | <ogra_cmpc> you wont be able to use it without branching
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| 13:48 | <mnemoc> :\
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| 13:48 | <ogra_cmpc> branch off, add your plugins and give it to us to merge
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| 13:48 | <mnemoc> that's not very helpful for distributions without tons of man-power
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| 13:49 | and ltsp claims to have the goal to be integrated on more than just major distributions
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> and a stable release will likely require patches extensive patches if the distro wasn't well supported at the time of release...
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| 13:49 | <ogra_cmpc> well, the core concept of ltsp5 is that you install ltsp-server with your package manager and that ltsp-build-cdlient sets up a client environment for you using your distros package management software and configuration tools ...
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| 13:50 | <mnemoc> vagrantc: the thing of the stable upstream is mostly "if don't work , it's my fault" and not "it don't work, is upstream broken?"
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| 13:50 | <vagrantc> mnemoc: well, you can take the bzr branch from today and call it a release ... there's no way to support a release for your distro without integrating it into your distro.
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| 13:50 | <ogra_cmpc> *i* dont know your package manager, neither do i know confg policies etc
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| 13:50 | so its up to a distro person to integrate it
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| 13:51 | <mnemoc> you insist in mixing things up :\
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| 13:51 | <vagrantc> there is no mixing. ltsp5 is based entirely on the distro it's being made for.
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| 13:51 | there isn't much to release.
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| 13:51 | that's the point ... ltsp5 is 99% $DISTO and 1% ltsp.
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| 13:52 | <daduke_> vagrantc!!!
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| 13:52 | <mnemoc> not enterely, ldm and ltspfs _are_ common across distributions, and deserve releases
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> fair enough.
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| 13:52 | mnemoc: why don't you ask upstream to make a release, then.
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| 13:53 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, they usually depend on features in the other youcant just divide them apart
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: yes, but that's improving.
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| 13:53 | <ogra_cmpc> ltspfs currently doesnt work without ldm for example
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> anyways, gotta run ... be back in a few to make a new upload of ldm and possibly ltsp ...
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| 14:02 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: i guess after all these years (8) working on stuff to help to make distributions i deformed myself to value more what's common across all than what makes them different... i general i have troubles discussing with distribution-centric people :(
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| 14:02 | <ogra_cmpc> mnemoc, the common parts in ltsp5 are only a few k
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| 14:03 | look at the code
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| 14:05 | the core parts are the builder script and the initscripts in the client environment ... both are totally depending on what your distro uses
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| 14:07 | <mnemoc> ogra_cmpc: what's better to use as reference -mainline or -trunk ?
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| 14:07 | <ogra_cmpc> -trunk
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| 14:07 | where did you find mainline ?
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| 14:08 | <mnemoc> http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
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| 14:08 | <ogra_cmpc> thats ancient (vagrant mentioned that)
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| 14:09 | nobody updated the wikipage in a while
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| 14:09 | <mnemoc> i noticed :p
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| 14:09 | it's 1y old
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| 14:10 | <ogra_cmpc> well, until about 6 months ago it was valid
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| 14:10 | then we started to split the code into sparate branches
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| 14:11 | and founded the ltsp-upstream team etc
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| 14:11 | <mnemoc> ic
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| 14:13 | <ogra_cmpc> (preyy much when fedora entered the development) ... mainline was valid for the two years before though
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| 14:13 | *pretty
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| 14:15 | <mnemoc> is warren the only developer from fedora?
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| 14:16 | <ogra_cmpc> well, he has the whole redhat crew in the back :)
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| 14:16 | so he can delegate tasks
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| 14:16 | <mnemoc> :)
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| 14:16 | <ogra_cmpc> but he's currently the only one doing constant work on the fedora implementation
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| 14:29 | <Vorlock> who use ltsp 4.2 or 4.0 ?
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| 16:48 | <warren> This Alt Linux guy is rude
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| 16:50 | <rjune> warren: ?
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| 16:50 | <warren> or maybe he's just a user
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| 16:50 | I don't know who he is
| |
| 16:50 | <rjune> what alt linux guy?
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| 16:51 | gonzaloaf has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:51 | <warren> michael shigorin
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| 16:52 | and somebody else who wrote something nonsensical on my blog
| |
| 16:52 | might be the same person
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| 16:52 | <rjune> ah
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| 17:00 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, i've always sort of thought of them as just shy of a troll.
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| 17:00 | sometimes actively trolling
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| 17:01 | i'm about to reply to a seemingly reasonable email, with the slight fear that i might get a bit of trolling for it.
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| 17:01 | <warren> altlinux is another RPM based distro?
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| 17:02 | what are they supposed to be good at?
| |
| 17:02 | <vagrantc> warren: regarding the patches for ldm ... i wasn't intending to apply the patch to ldm-trunk, just getting out there a *something* that fixed the security issue while we figure out the long-term issue with xauth
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| 17:02 | warren: it's apparently being deployed in ... russian schools ?
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> so, ldm has dropped support for selecting anything that's not a UTF-8 locale?
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| 18:02 | <vagrantc> warren: can we conditionalize the Xsession handling at build time?
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| 18:03 | with the current code, it takes two filesystem calls on debian with what previously only did one...
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| 18:20 | <milesd> Hi, everybody
| |
| 18:20 | I'd love to get involved with this project and start hacking but I seem to be at a slight loss understanding how it's organized
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| 18:21 | I found the bzr repositories on launchpad... actually somebody in here told me about them
| |
| 18:21 | but the ltsp-trunk repository doesn't appear to have code in it... or at least nothing I can build
| |
| 18:21 | is there some kind of "getting started guide" somewhere? Can any of you give me some pointers?
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| 18:36 | <mnemoc> milesd: these are the four "upstream" branches https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
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| 18:37 | milesd: and this is the other interesting link i got when i asked http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
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| 18:37 | <milesd> mnemoc, yeah, I found that
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| 18:37 | mnemoc, aaah, the second link looks like some good reading, thank you :)
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| 18:38 | <mnemoc> milesd: bzr get <url> ... even if you don't see code on the browser, bzr will find it
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| 18:38 | <milesd> mnemoc, ah, I was using bzr branch...
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| 18:39 | mnemoc, I'm pretty familiar with mercurial, I'm starting to understand that bzr isn't very similar
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| 18:39 | <mnemoc> i think get and branch are aliases of the same command
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| 18:39 | <milesd> ah, ok
| |
| 18:39 | <mnemoc> bzr clone seems to work too
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| 18:39 | https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk <---- look at the "example" line
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| 18:40 | <milesd> mnemoc, yeah, I've got the code... such as it is, I just don't understand what I'm looking at
| |
| 18:40 | mnemoc, why don't I read this "integration" page and get back to you?
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| 18:41 | <mnemoc> milesd: sure, but i don't know much about ltsp neither
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| 18:41 | milesd: but take into account that integration page is outdated, but it's good reading anyway
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| 18:42 | <milesd> mnemoc, yeah, at least it gives me a baseline
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> milesd: what distro are you working with?
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| 19:34 | <warren> vagrantc, please don't make me optimize before it is fully implemented...
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| 19:35 | vagrantc, yeah, I agree let's do that, and SuSE even has a 3rd location for it.
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, exactly.
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| 19:40 | warren: i don't quite understand the optimize comment though...
| |
| 19:40 | actually, might be a good thing to provide in ldminfod
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| 19:41 | but that's a little more code tweaking...
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| 19:41 | warren: you're talking about the default Xsession script location, right?
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| 19:53 | <vagrantc> gah. i updated virtualbox and it seems like X isn't configuring properly ... maybe.
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| 19:53 | just when i try to test a new upload, too.
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| 20:01 | oh... the new ldm i'm working on is also dependent on a new ltsp ... with all the /usr/lib -> /usr/share stuff
| |
| 20:04 | <ogra_cmpc> indeed
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| 20:10 | <warren> let's call the current ldm (after xauth fix) ldm-2.0 branch
| |
| 20:10 | new ldm with updated ldminfod protocol will be ldm-3.0
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| 20:10 | well....
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| 20:10 | ldm-trunk
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> warren: is the updated ldminfod protocol stuff actually implemented yet, or just an idea at this point?
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| 20:21 | hmmm... i thik i can patch the current ldm upload to work with both locations, and then when the ltsp + ldm hit lenny/testing, i can upload a new ldm without those changes
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| 20:21 | and new ltsp
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| 20:22 | * vagrantc strains to think of a simple name for this patch | |
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| 21:05 | <warren> vagrantc, a short list of things we need
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| 21:15 | <mnemoc> http://wtogami.livejournal.com/23648.html <-- nice post
| |
| 21:16 | (it's about LTSP5 and fedora, not spam)
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| 21:17 | warren: is it yours?
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> well, new ldm upload to debian. hopefully this will actually get through.
| |
| 21:34 | * vagrantc waves | |
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| 22:00 | <dberkholz> warren: i agree with you that actual released tarballs would be nice
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| 22:01 | * mnemoc happy to read that | |
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