IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 31 August 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:10 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 00:34 | <elias_a> It is a good morning, isn't it? :)
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| 00:35 | map7 is now known as map7|away | |
| 00:35 | <alkisg> Tommorow the vacations end, and today is raining.... so :-/
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| 00:43 | <elias_a> Well - nice day for jogging... keep it positive! :D
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| 01:18 | <ftherese1> thank you nubae... I am starting over today, hopefully I'll have more luck!
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| 01:27 | <jkenney_> hey
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| 01:28 | I need to create a default profile in ltsp
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| 01:28 | that is locked down
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| 01:28 | something i can place in skel
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| 01:28 | so when I add user
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| 01:28 | its locked
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| 01:28 | can anyone help me
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| 01:28 | <jkenney_> i really would like to get this finished and have been banging my head against the wall
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| 01:32 | <Appiah> what's the problem?
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| 01:44 | <jkenney_> ko
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| 01:44 | ok
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| 01:44 | i need to create a locked down profile
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| 01:45 | and not sure how
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| 03:14 | <nubae_> how can one calculate startup time of a thin client based on its image size? or can one do that at all?
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| 03:18 | <nubae_> morning alkisg
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| 03:18 | <alkisg> Hi nubae
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| 03:18 | <nubae_> just asked a question before u came in, maybe u have an answer:
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| 03:18 | how can one calculate startup time of a thin client based on its image size? or can one do that at all?
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| 03:19 | <alkisg> Nope. It doesn't depend on the image size at all
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| 03:19 | <nubae_> its just someone is trying to convince me that if I had a room of 25 computers starting up at once on a 100mb network, it would take more than 5 mins for them all to start up
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| 03:19 | <alkisg> It's like saying that if you /dev/sda1 is 100 Gb, your normal os startup time will be greater than one with 1 Gb os
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| 03:19 | <nubae_> yeah, thats what I thought... theoretically u cant make such calculations
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| 03:20 | <alkisg> One way to do some calculations would be to measure the actually transfered bytes per client
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| 03:20 | One here did that, I think he said that it needed ~20-30 Mb per client till the client boots
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| 03:21 | So on a 100mbps network, that's 2-3 seconds per client
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| 03:21 | So... 25 computers x 3 seconds => here's a lower limit to your boot time: 75 secs.
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| 03:22 | But if the server <=> switch link is gigabit, that is *not* the case
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| 03:22 | Then the lower theoretical limit is still 3 seconds or so.
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| 03:22 | <nubae_> ok, now that makes sense
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| 03:25 | <alkisg> Even if the network is 100mbps, it's really easy to add 2 more nics to the server and get the theoretical 75 seconds down to 25 seconds => not a bottleneck anymore.
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| 03:25 | That would also provide fault tolerance & more speed after the initial boot
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| 03:38 | <nubae_> yep... makes sense
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| 03:38 | theoretically, if u are adding gigabit nics, bottleneck could never really be the network
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| 03:46 | <alkisg> For boot up times, yeah, but for later on even gigabit is slow
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| 03:47 | E.g. HD playback = 500mbps => x 25 clients => 12.5 Gbps :)
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| 03:47 | You'd need 12.5 gigabit cards on the server to serve them :P
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| 05:41 | <autoditac> hi. does anyone know of any problems with subpixel hinting on debian lenny ltsp clients?
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| 05:41 | mine looks horrible ...
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| 05:43 | <alkisg> Fast one :)
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| 06:56 | <autoditac> alkisg1: other thin client problems :-(
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| 06:56 | any hints for smooth subpixel hining?
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> autoditac: I've barely seen debian, I wouldn't know... Is that in all applications, or just openoffice?
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| 08:24 | <nubae> the subpixel hinting should be the same on ubuntu and debian
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| 08:24 | does a normal client behave properly, ie... its just the thin client u notice being crappy?
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| 08:26 | <lieven1> Hi, need some debugging tips on ltsp 5 on Jaunty... seems like XSERVER variable is not honoured / or . (some way after tweaking pxelinux using vesamenu, xserver on ltspclient wants to load fbhwdev module after nv driver and I can't seem to force using the proprietary nvidia driver).. can anyone hint me on this one?
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| 08:41 | <nubae> lieven1: u have X_CONFIGURE=True ?
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| 08:42 | <lieven1> yes I do, relevant portion from lts.conf:
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| 08:42 | [default]
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| 08:42 | LDM_GUESTLOGIN = True
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| 08:42 | LOCALDEV=True
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| 08:42 | SOUND=True
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| 08:42 | TIMESERVER=ntp.d4t.lan
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| 08:42 | [DIMENSION521]
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| 08:42 | LDM_DIRECTX = True
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| 08:42 | CONFIGURE_X = True
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| 08:42 | X_CONF = /etc/X11/xorg.conf.e521
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| 08:42 | XSERVER = nvidia
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| 08:42 | [00:13:72:37:97:02]
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| 08:42 | LDM_USERNAME = lg3-1
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| 08:42 | LDM_PASSWORD = plg3-1
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| 08:42 | LIKE = DIMENSION521
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| 08:42 | SYSLOG_HOST = 192.168.100.100
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| 08:42 | ouch sorry for that....
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| 08:44 | <nubae> ah... u need to use mac address
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| 08:45 | for me, hostnames have never worked in lts.conf
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| 08:46 | <ogra> because they are not supposed to :)
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| 08:46 | <lieven1> I know, the DIMENSION521 section is a grouping section for similar workstations. I use it to refer using LIKE variable in actual host section...
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| 08:47 | <ogra> right, for LIKE it should work
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| 08:47 | its likely that vesamenu needs a generic framebuffer loaded
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| 08:47 | <nubae> shouldnt it be the other way round then though?
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| 08:48 | <ogra> there are reasones why we dont include it in ubuntu :)
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| 08:48 | <nubae> or usage is LIKE=hostname?
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| 08:48 | <ogra> LIKE can take anything you define
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| 08:49 | i think its rather caused by vesamenu ... its a shitty implementation ...
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| 08:50 | (sorry for the strong words ... i'm not a fan of it :) )
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| 08:50 | <nubae> yeah... u can try putting in the mac for dimension521 to confirm what ogra says I guess
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| 08:51 | <lieven1> from ref guide: The LIKE keyword allows you to define a general set of parameters under a unique identifier, and then assign individual workstations that set of parameters using the LIKE keyword.
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| 08:52 | <lieven1> so that should work... I also think it is related to vesamenu, .... cause since then, trouble has begun...
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| 08:53 | But still, I should find a way to find out why the nvidia driver doens(t want to load...
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| 08:54 | client boots but gets stuck in text mode
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| 08:54 | <ogra> is it installed in your chroot ?
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| 08:54 | <lieven1> it is installed, cause I can load the module when login into the clients text terminal
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| 08:55 | <ogra> you could add it to /etc/modules in your chroot (and rebuild the image)
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| 09:01 | <lieven1> I think I could get it to work, if I can find out what jaunty's restricted driver manager does when installing the nvidia driver. I figured out it installs the package (nvidia-glx) - which I installed in the chroot (did need manual dkms build), creates an xorg.conf - which I created in the chroot and refed in lts.conf. But... I'm sure it does something else to.....
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| 09:03 | <ogra> did you run ltsp-update-image ?
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| 09:03 | <lieven1> yep
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| 09:05 | how (which script) is xserver startup initiated on the client? I could try playing with params once logged into text terminal.
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| 09:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey all. testing out Karmic, just updated and LTSP works again. I have a question about how localapps w/firefox is handled now.
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| 09:16 | I am getting an error that line 14 is broken: http://pastebin.com/m5b8e0a73
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| 09:16 | Previously, that was SOP to put that in the lts.conf in order to ensure that /etc/resolv.conf was writeable.
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| 09:16 | is that no longer needed?
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| 09:23 | <zamba> when i log in on my thin client i get an error about HAL
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| 09:24 | ah, sabayon's the culprit
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| 09:35 | <lieven1> Hi, I can't find the script in the ltsp-client chroot that starts X/ldm .... I must be overlooking something...
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| 09:37 | <ogra> ltsp-client-core in /etc/init.d in the chroot
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| 09:44 | <rm-rf> i'm running into something that i'm not sure if it is a feature, or a bug
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| 09:44 | if i login to ltsp, then log out, nobody else can login until the session is rebooted
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| 09:44 | is this normal behavior?
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| 09:45 | <jammcq> good morning friends
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> rm-rf: huh? you login to a terminal T1 as user U1, and when you logoff, a user U2 can't logon to a terminal T2?
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| 09:47 | * ogra wonders what "the session is rebooted" might mean | |
| 09:48 | <jammcq> ogra: howdie
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| 09:48 | <ogra> hey jammcq
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| 09:48 | <jammcq> ogra: did you buy your plane ticket to Maine yet?
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| 09:48 | <ogra> nope, still no word from management
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| 09:48 | <jammcq> hmm, maybe it's time to shake that tree
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| 09:49 | <ogra> my prob is that my HW is restricted, i cant take it with me to the US
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| 09:49 | <jammcq> oh really?
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| 09:49 | <ogra> so i wouldnt be able to do image testing and fixes for RC
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| 09:49 | <jammcq> wow
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| 09:49 | <ogra> yeah, patent issues
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| 09:49 | that makes the decision difficult since i have to train someone else on al the stuff
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| 09:49 | <jammcq> oh, that's right... you've crossed over
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| 09:50 | <ogra> no idea what that patent is about though, but you cant import that specific board into the US atm
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| 09:51 | <jammcq> so it's from a non-us company?
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| 09:51 | <ogra> (no idea if any customs person would know though)
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| 09:51 | the company is US based, bt the production is asia based
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| 09:51 | <jammcq> heh
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| 09:51 | makes it even funnier
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| 09:51 | <ogra> yeah
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| 09:51 | <cliebow> GOOD GREIF
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| 09:52 | heh
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| 09:52 | i before e
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| 09:52 | <ogra> american law *shrug*
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| 09:53 | <cliebow> thars all we need..ogra at Guantanamo
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| 09:53 | <rm-rf> alkisg: i pxe boot the client, login with my account, then log out. if another user tries to login, they get kicked back out to the login screen after the error "no response from server. restarting." appears. if i reboot the client, then the user can login
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| 09:53 | <ogra> lol
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| 09:53 | cliebow, i'd love to see cuba, lots of ubuntu users there :)
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> rm-rf: (just so to understand this better): can they login from other clients? can the same user login twice from the same pc?
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| 09:55 | <rm-rf> the same user can login twice from the same terminal
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| 09:56 | and my user can login after they've logged in, but if i log out and try logging in as the previous user, it fails
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| 09:56 | it's like my account messes up the machine somehow
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> Ah, so other users can login/logout many times if you don't logon? Is the problem just for your user account?
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| 09:59 | <rm-rf> i can login as many times as i want
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| 09:59 | but as soon as i login to a terminal, nobody else can login
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> rm-rf: after that happens, get a local terminal and try: ssh -l username server
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| 10:03 | ...and see what ssh tells you there.
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| 10:03 | (change "username" with the user that experiences the problem; leave "server" as it is)
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| 10:06 | <rm-rf> wtf
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| 10:06 | now it's working just fine
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| 10:07 | lemme reboot and try it again
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| 10:08 | <rm-rf> i don't know what happened, but something "broke loose" and now it's working
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| 11:04 | <cnc> !Seen Gadi
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| 11:04 | <ltspbot> cnc: Gadi was last seen in #ltsp 3 days, 0 hours, 1 minute, and 10 seconds ago: <Gadi> ah, movable type
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| 11:07 | <Gadi> wow... I have been quiet lately...
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| 11:25 | <autoditac> does anybody know of requirements for proper font anti-aliasing on the client side (ltsp5 - debian lenny)
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| 11:25 | mine looks horrible?
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| 11:42 | <Lns> Hello fellow LTSPers
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| 11:44 | <cliebow> Lns!!!
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| 11:44 | <Lns> hey cliebow =)
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| 11:44 | <cliebow> 8~)
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| 11:45 | <Lns> How's it going?
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| 11:46 | <johnny> gentlemen
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| 11:46 | <cliebow> ok..my new job didnt come through..
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| 11:47 | cause they wouldny pay enough alone..and werent keen on letting me continue my other job
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| 11:47 | * Lns greets johnny | |
| 11:47 | <knipwim> johnny: what do you think of this:
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| 11:47 | http://www.pastebin.org/13704
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| 11:48 | <Lns> cliebow: :( you looking for work?
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| 11:48 | <johnny> i think you're insane :) jk :)
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| 11:48 | <knipwim> :)
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| 11:48 | <johnny> knipwim, you can't use pastebin.* for patches
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| 11:48 | <cliebow> Lns: well..trying to get out of this schlemmozle i am in now
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| 11:48 | <johnny> it eats up the @@ signs
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| 11:48 | <knipwim> ah
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| 11:49 | <johnny> try pastie.org instead or dpaste
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| 11:49 | or anything else :)
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| 11:49 | <knipwim> next time
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| 11:49 | <johnny> i just use wgetpaste :)
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| 11:49 | <knipwim> you know what i'm getting at
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| 11:49 | <johnny> -h ? hmm.. that's a new one to me
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| 11:50 | knipwim, btw.. we try to make sure these files do not contain bashisms
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| 11:50 | <knipwim> what's a bashism?
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| 11:50 | <johnny> somethign that only works in the bash shell
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| 11:50 | actually.. more importantly.. they aren't specified in the POSIX spec
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| 11:51 | as other shells do similiar things.. it's just common for people to put things that only work in bash because they don't know better
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| 11:51 | as they have probably never used a shell other than bash by default
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| 11:51 | this is important for both quickstart and ltsp scripts
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| 11:51 | <johnny> since quickstart tries to stay agnostic internally anyways
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| 11:52 | <knipwim> makes sense
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| 11:52 | <johnny> i don't think i've personally used -h before
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| 11:55 | so, you want to remove the stage file symlink from inside sure.. that sounds fine
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| 11:55 | trivial, but fine
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| 11:55 | setup a launchpad account and fork ltsp-trunk
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| 11:56 | or host bzr yourself..whatever
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| 11:56 | <johnny> it is custom in this project to prefix distro specific changes in the commit message, so for us Gentoo:
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| 12:01 | <knipwim> is the -h the bashism you're getting at?
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| 12:01 | <johnny> i don't know if it is, i was just mentioning it
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| 12:01 | as i wasn't directly familiar with that one
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| 12:04 | <knipwim> it is mentioned in man test, as is the -L option
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| 12:09 | <johnny> this is almost what i do ..
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| 12:09 | http://xkcd.com/627/
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| 12:10 | i wish that it had a step for "i don't have the program" and go directly to the google thing on the side
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| 12:24 | <knipwim> johnny: should i pastebin/email or bugreport the patch?
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| 12:24 | <johnny> i just told you what you should do
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| 12:24 | <knipwim> as i don't have a commit account for ltsp on launchpad
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| 12:25 | <johnny> use your own account and fork it
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| 12:25 | and then i'll merge your work
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| 12:25 | <knipwim> kk
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| 12:28 | <Blinny> So I have several users who have trouble with flash audio. It's not client-specific, it's user-specific. I've rm -rf .macromedia but have yet to touch .mozilla -- any ideas?
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| 12:29 | <Blinny> I did a round of updates, updating the chroot, as well as going to the non-distro 64-bit libflashplayer so I'm sure it's connected to one of those. Sound used to work for these users. Normal .wavs and local sound work great.
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| 12:35 | <Lns> Blinny: maybe some users tried installing flash before you had the global libflashplayer.so file installed? Try 'mv'ing their .mozilla (and .adobe?) or simply search for libflashplayer.so in their homedirs
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| 12:36 | <Blinny> .adobe!
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| 12:37 | My users wouldn't know a libflashplayer.so from their own shoes.
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| 12:38 | Let me try removing .adobe
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| 12:38 | Thanks Lns - back in a flash.
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| 12:38 | heh heh
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| 12:38 | <lieven1> hi, did anyone succeed in installing and running NVIDIA's proprietary drivers in the clients chroot (jaunty)?
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| 12:40 | <alkisg> lieven1: I did that once, I don't remember if it was with jaunty alpha/beta or intrepid...
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| 12:41 | <Blinny> Lns: No love removing both .adobe and .mozilla -- still no sound.
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| 12:41 | <Lns> Blinny: is this on *all* flash sites?
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| 12:41 | <Blinny> Is there a user-specific setting for pulse/alsa/whatever?
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| 12:41 | Lns: All I've tried, yes.
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| 12:41 | <lieven1> alkisg: do you rember using ubuntu's dkms mechanism for that?
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| 12:41 | <Lns> shouldn't be, if you're getting sound in other apps
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| 12:41 | <Blinny> (the major ones.. cnn, msnbc, redsox)
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| 12:42 | <Lns> Blinny: you get video though?
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| 12:42 | <Blinny> Lns: Yup.
| |
| 12:42 | And like I said, normal system sounds play fine. Login sound, .wavs, .mp3 and .m3us
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| 12:42 | <Gadi> Blinny: check the user's .asoundrc*
| |
| 12:42 | <Lns> Blinny: have you done about:config and verified your browser is using the same libflashplayer.so version that you thought you installed?
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| 12:42 | Gadi: !
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| 12:43 | <Gadi> hidey ho
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| 12:43 | <vmlintu> lieven1: I've got the nvidia module working by first installing the kernel+dkms+nvidia-source to a different box that compiled the module and then copied the module to the image
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> lieven1: yeah, both with the nvidia proprietary drivers & with the nouveau drivers dkms is needed
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| 12:43 | <Lns> Gadi: a bit Cab Calloway today are we?
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> I did it directly on the chroot, with no different pc or anything
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| 12:43 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 12:44 | <Blinny> Hrm. .asoundrc references the skel account's .asoundrc.asoundconf
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| 12:45 | <lieven1> I did to, manual dkms build in the chroot to use the clients kernel. All seems fine, except, xorg keeps loading the nv driver instead of nvidia's...
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> Put XSERVER=nvidia in lts.conf
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| 12:45 | <Blinny> One sec, lemme give another try. Be right back.
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| 12:45 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 12:46 | <lieven1> I did that... problem stays, still nv driver loaded
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| 12:47 | <johnny> guess you should drop to the console and try to manually load the module
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| 12:47 | Blinny has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:47 | <johnny> make sure it is loaded at all..
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| 12:47 | usually xorg prefers the nvidia over nv
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| 12:47 | <Blinny> Lns Gadi: .asoundrc was it
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| 12:48 | <Gadi> cool
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| 12:48 | <Lns> Blinny: good =)
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| 12:48 | <Blinny> They were sourcing the skel account's .asoundrc.asoundconf file. When I switched it to their own home dir's .asoundrc.asoundconf it started working.
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| 12:48 | <lieven1> johnny: modprobe nvidia works, but then... any way to manually start x (ldm)
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| 12:48 | <johnny> sure..
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| 12:49 | <Blinny> I guess I also removed the skel account during the same testing period. Thanks guys, appreciate it!
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> lieven1: ah right you also need a MODULE=xx line in lts.conf, let me find it...
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| 12:49 | <johnny> i forget the correct options.. something like ldm vt7 :0
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| 12:50 | it's weird.. but i don't have ldm here to look at the manpage to remind myself
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> lieven1: if my notes are correct, it's: MODULE_01=nvidia X4_MODULE_01=glx
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| 12:51 | <johnny> are you sure you have to specify glx ?
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| 12:51 | that would be weird
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> nOPE
| |
| 12:51 | Nope
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| 12:51 | <johnny> i dont' think you do
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| 12:51 | <lieven1> I'm trying....
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| 12:56 | <lieven1> hmmmm... very strange - nvidia module is not loaded after rebooting client
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| 12:57 | <alkisg> lieven1: so what's the generated xorg.conf like on the client?
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> nvidia is a kernel module?
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| 12:58 | otavio_ has quit IRC | |
| 12:59 | * Gadi would have guessed XSERVER=nvidia | |
| 12:59 | <lieven1> is there a way to check generated xorg.conf (except reading the xorg logs)?
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| 12:59 | <Gadi> cat /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 12:59 | <lieven1> log says it's using nv driver
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| 12:59 | <Gadi> iirc
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| 13:00 | shawnp0wers has quit IRC | |
| 13:00 | <lieven1> no /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf here....
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| 13:00 | <alkisg> lieven1: so what do you have in lts.conf now? xserver and module_01 ? and that (with jaunty) didn't generate a xorg.conf?
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| 13:02 | <lieven1> indeed: CONFIGURE_X = True; XSERVER = nvidia; MODULE_01=nvidia; X4_MODULE_01=glx
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| 13:02 | <Gadi> lieven1: do you have [default] ?
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| 13:02 | panthera has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:02 | <lieven1> yes, those vars are in host section though
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| 13:02 | <alkisg> try getltscfg -a on the client to see if they get there
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| 13:03 | <lieven1> getltscfg -a: nothing
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| 13:03 | <alkisg> Urm, then you got a problem with lts.conf not being sent to the client
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| 13:03 | <Gadi> there's your problem: cat /etc/lts.conf
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| 13:04 | <lieven1> indeed, sample file in /etc/lts.conf
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| 13:05 | <alkisg> Where's your normal lts.conf on the server? In /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ?
| |
| 13:05 | <lieven1> yes
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| 13:06 | <alkisg> Maybe there's a problem in your dhcpd.conf, and it doesn't send the "filename" dhcp option when the client vendor identifier is "Linux ipconfig"
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| 13:06 | Can you upload the relevant settings in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
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| 13:07 | * alkisg thinks we should tell ipconfig to use "PXEClient" :-/ | |
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| 13:08 | <ogra> alkisg, pfft
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| 13:08 | * ogra points to bzr | |
| 13:08 | <ogra> added:
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| 13:08 | client/initramfs/hooks/udhcp
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| 13:08 | client/initramfs/scripts/init-premount/
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| 13:08 | client/initramfs/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> Yeah!!! :D
| |
| 13:08 | <Gadi> some folks do use Etherboot, ya know
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| 13:08 | <ogra> send flowers to stgraber :)
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| 13:08 | <Gadi> :P
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| 13:09 | otavio_ has quit IRC | |
| 13:09 | <ogra> Gadi, udhcp can handle that i think
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| 13:09 | otavio_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:09 | <alkisg> I sure will. But we'll need a little testing/cleaning to make it ready for karmic
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| 13:09 | <ogra> ipconfig is dead :)
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| 13:09 | <lieven1> host lg3-1 {hardware ethernet 00:13:72:37:97:02;fixed-address lg3-1;filename "pxelinux.0"; }
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> Gadi: etherboot is no problem
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| 13:09 | <Gadi> right - but I wouldn't set the VCI to PXEClient
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| 13:09 | :)
| |
| 13:10 | lieven1: how does that even work?
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| 13:10 | you should have: filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0";
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| 13:10 | <alkisg> Gadi: now with your patch that makes filename default to /ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0, it's ok. But without that, locating lts.conf by using filename *and* not telling ipconfig to use "PXEClient" was a little misleading...
| |
| 13:10 | <lieven1> why shouldnt it?
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> lieven1: the lts.conf location is guessed by looking the filename dhcp option
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| 13:11 | It's searched for in the same dir as pxelinux.0
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| 13:11 | <lieven1> no, i moved pxelinux.0 and pxelinux.cfg to /var/lib/tftpboot/
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| 13:11 | <Gadi> alkisg: but if you etherboot, ipconfig should say Etherboot, following ur model
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> So move lts.conf there
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| 13:11 | <Gadi> personally, I think ipconfig should say "LTSP-i486"
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> Gadi: nah, that's only for the lts.conf filename...
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| 13:11 | <Gadi> er, LTSP-i386"
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| 13:12 | my point is, ipconfig has nothing to do with PXE or Etherboot
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> Sure. I'm talking about making dhcpd.conf easier for people to understand
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| 13:12 | <Gadi> and if you are going to mess with the VCI, it should be done in a more meaningful way
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| 13:13 | right - setting it to PXEClient would make it more confusing
| |
| 13:13 | especially to Etherboot folk
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| 13:13 | :)
| |
| 13:13 | <alkisg> Urm... the default dhcpd.conf is working by... chance!!! if substring( option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9 ) = "PXEClient" { filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"; } else { filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img"; }
| |
| 13:14 | <ogra> lieven1, and where exactly does your lts.conf live ?
| |
| 13:14 | <alkisg> When a PXE client boots, it gets "filename "/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0"; " in the beginning, and filename "/ltsp/i386/nbi.img"; } later on with ipconfig
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| 13:14 | otavio_ has quit IRC | |
| 13:14 | <alkisg> Is that *not* confusing?
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| 13:15 | <Lns> alkisg: well its all required for booting from the network, really iirc :)
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| 13:15 | isn't it mostly to do with the limitations of bootloaders, initramfs, etc?
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> Not really...
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| 13:16 | <lieven1> it lives in /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf , i tried to copy to /var/lib/tftpboot (next to my pxelinux.0) but to no avail
| |
| 13:16 | <Gadi> what is confusing to have a packet coming from an etherboot system over the wire identifying itself as a PXEclient
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| 13:17 | <alkisg> Gadi: this is later than the initial booting. And, the newest etherboot version (=gpxe) *do* send "PXEClient" as the vci
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| 13:17 | <Gadi> right - then why should we be forcing the VCI in the initramfs?
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| 13:17 | :)
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| 13:18 | <lieven1> Problem is, I'm using tftpboot server also for network installs so I have /var/lib/tftpboot/[pxelinux.[0|cfg/]|install/|ltsp/]
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| 13:19 | <Gadi> so, lieven1, with lts.conf next to pxelinux.cfg, you still get default lts.conf on client?
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| 13:19 | ah, I know why
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| 13:19 | <lieven1> yes, indeed
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| 13:19 | <Gadi> add a forward slash before the pxelinux.0 in filename
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> lieven1: put break=init in pxelinux.cfg/default, and cat /tmp/net-eth0.cfg
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| 13:20 | <Gadi> and restart the dhcp server
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> Ah right
| |
| 13:20 | * alkisg had reported that a while ago :) | |
| 13:25 | <lieven1> IT WORKS! Stupid mistake! Now nvidia driver is loaded like it should! Thanks a lot guys....
| |
| 13:26 | I'll never forget the fwd slash before filename in dhcpd.conf anymore!
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| 13:27 | (though it is strange it even did a netboot. The forward slash causing the tftp-server to find the lts.conf now... )
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| 13:29 | <ogra> the code that downloads lts.conf reads the filename directive and cuts off the actual file
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| 13:29 | so in your case the path was empty ... adding the forward slash made it "/lts.conf"
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| 13:30 | <lieven1> that explains everything... thank you!
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> Still, "get lts.conf" should have worked - this is a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/238010
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| 13:32 | if filename=ltsp3.pxe with no path, tftpath becomes ltsp3.pxe instead of / or ./
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| 13:32 | So it was looking at /pxelinux.0/lts.conf :)
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| 13:34 | <ogra> damned, yeah, my bad coding skills ... bah
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| 13:34 | * ogra is to blame for that one | |
| 13:34 | <ogra> but looks like scottie is already on it if i read the bug
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| 13:35 | <lieven1> is there a way to leave to file in ltsp/i386/lts.conf, that is somewhat cleaner then leaving it in the root of my tftp server
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| 13:36 | <ogra> you could hack up the ltsp_nbd script
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| 13:36 | usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/ltsp_nbd in your chroot
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| 13:37 | <lieven1> yes but I mean a clean way, like passing it as a dhcp option or something
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| 13:37 | <ogra> nope
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| 13:37 | tftpath=$(echo ${filename%/*}|tr -d '"'); (echo "get ${tftpath}/lts.conf"|tftp ${ROOTSERVER} >/dev/null 2>&1)
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| 13:37 | thats the current code
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| 13:38 | <rjune_wrk> ogra: focus not on blame, but rather on solutions.
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| 13:38 | <Gadi> (echo "get ${tftpath:-/ltsp/i386}/lts.conf"|/bin/tftp ${NBD_ROOT_SERVER} >/dev/null 2>&1)
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| 13:38 | that's the real current code
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| 13:38 | :)
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| 13:39 | <ogra> right, i c/p'ed from the bug
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| 13:39 | <Gadi> you could have an: unset filename before that line
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| 13:39 | <ogra> some kind person fixed it already :)
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| 13:39 | <Gadi> if you want it to always go to /ltsp/i386
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| 13:40 | er, unset tftpath
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| 13:40 | which, i always thought needed an extra "p"
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| 13:40 | ;)
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| 13:40 | <lieven1> :) thanks...
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| 13:41 | <ogra> Gadi, trivial file transfer path :)
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| 13:41 | otavio__ has quit IRC | |
| 13:41 | <Gadi> in lieven1's case - very trivial
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| 13:41 | :)
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> lieven1: you could also symlink ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 to /pxelinux.0...
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| 13:42 | <lieven1> that's what I did for now... thx
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| 13:58 | <vagrantc> stgraber: we you thinking of an ldm uploader sooner than later?
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| 13:58 | stgraber: well, new upstream tarball, that is
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| 13:59 | <ogra> vagrantc, alpha freeze ahead
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| 13:59 | A5 is on thu
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| 14:00 | <vagrantc> ah, so probably not
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| 14:01 | shawnp0wers has quit IRC | |
| 14:01 | * vagrantc is debating weather to upload a new upstream version to debian, as slow buildd's may stall migration to testing on the current version | |
| 14:02 | shawnp0wers has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:05 | |Ryan52 has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:06 | <ogra> vagrantc, yeah, i saw the bug
| |
| 14:06 | err, mail ...
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| 14:07 | * vagrantc wishes there were virtual bugs for each of the buildd's. | |
| 14:07 | <ogra> heh, ia64 ... who cares anyway :)
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| 14:08 | <vagrantc> well, all architectures are "supported" again
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| 14:08 | <ogra> evil
| |
| 14:08 | and you still have the december freeze ?
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| 14:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: doubtful
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| 14:08 | <ogra> oh, really? i though there was such a big agreement
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| 14:08 | <vagrantc> i figure with the architecture restrictions... who am i to limit the creativity of obscure architecture users
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| 14:09 | ogra: agreements made without widespread community agreement tend to have a difficult time moving forward
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| 14:09 | <ogra> heh
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| 14:26 | <Lns> vagrantc: hmm, wonder why =p
| |
| 14:38 | Anyone using VMWare guests on Linux hosts (especially ltsp servers) that have tips to reduce disk i/o? It seems to be a *major* bottleneck for me, causing horrible hangs/delays during some operations (especially during the first ~10min startup of a win2k3 guest).
| |
| 14:39 | <jammcq> Lns: yeah, get faster/more disks
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| 14:39 | <Lns> jammcq: =p
| |
| 14:39 | nice
| |
| 14:39 | <jammcq> we've got a big setup with a SAN and vmware with an LTSP server as one of the guests, and it's working VERY well
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| 14:39 | <Lns> well i guess that's a possibility actually, i could throw another drive and convert to raid 5 (from 1).. it's on a SAS channel
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| 14:40 | <jammcq> you have just 1 pair of drives now?
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| 14:40 | <Lns> yea
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| 14:40 | poor disks are constantly hammered =)
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| 14:40 | <jammcq> well... yeah, it's gonna be slow, and adding a 3rd disk prolly won't improve it much
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> Lns: be sure to use noatime
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| 14:40 | <jammcq> I typically go with Raid 10, with 12 or more drives
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| 14:40 | <Lns> but the only real noticeable thing is when vmware is going
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| 14:41 | vagrantc: ty, will do that too
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| 14:41 | <vagrantc> especially with raid-1
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| 14:42 | <Lns> vagrantc: stability gotchas? won't noatime increase possibility of corruption during a crash?
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| 14:42 | <jammcq> hmm, I don't think so
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| 14:43 | <ogra> nah
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| 14:43 | <jammcq> if anything, it might make it better
| |
| 14:43 | <Lns> I can definitely see that vmware would be constantly writing small bits to the same .vmdk file, causing a bottleneck possibly
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| 14:43 | |Ryan52 is now known as Ryan52 | |
| 14:43 | <jammcq> 'noatime' tells the kernel not to update the 'time last accessed' when a file is read
| |
| 14:43 | and vmware is doing mostly reading
| |
| 14:44 | lots and lots and lots of reading
| |
| 14:44 | <Lns> how about converting to ext4? Thoughts on stability in a production env?
| |
| 14:44 | <Gadi> wow - raid 10 with 12 drives? how often do you have to rebuild the array?
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| 14:44 | <jammcq> never used ext4, so no opinion
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| 14:44 | Gadi: umm.... never
| |
| 14:44 | <Gadi> is it a raid 1 over two stripes?
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| 14:44 | <vagrantc> Lns: if you use mutt with mbox files, you *might* have issues seeing new mail. if you use popularity-contest, it won't be able to collect as much useful data.
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| 14:44 | * Lns uses popcon for all servers :) | |
| 14:45 | <jammcq> Gadi: it's either 6 drives striped, mirrored against the other 6 drives striped
| |
| 14:45 | <Lns> but other than that it's just students hammering away at ff/ooo
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| 14:45 | <vagrantc> Lns: a middle-ground compromise is relatime
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| 14:45 | <Lns> or win ts :(
| |
| 14:45 | <jammcq> or, it's 6 mirrored pairs all striped together
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| 14:45 | <Lns> vagrantc: ty for that
| |
| 14:45 | <vagrantc> Lns: but i'd just put your vmware disk images on a partition with noatime, for sure.
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| 14:45 | there's no sane reason to need that for disk images
| |
| 14:45 | <Gadi> jammcq: roght - so if one of the six in the stripes fails, you need to rebuild because the stripe is dead, no?
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| 14:45 | <jammcq> Lns: how's the RAM ?
| |
| 14:46 | Gadi: yeah, but pop a new drive in, and it rebuilds in place
| |
| 14:46 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:46 | guess you have spares on hand
| |
| 14:46 | <jammcq> yep
| |
| 14:46 | <vagrantc> mdadm raid10 is actually crazier than that.
| |
| 14:46 | you can have a raid10 array of 5 disks, for example.
| |
| 14:46 | <jammcq> md lets you do all sorts of crazy variants
| |
| 14:46 | <Gadi> you must have great access times
| |
| 14:46 | <jammcq> Gadi: yeah, crazy fast
| |
| 14:47 | but now we're using SAN's. that's just a big box full of drives. I don't even know how they're all arranged, but it's wicked fast
| |
| 14:48 | <Lns> jammcq: 8gb
| |
| 14:49 | <jammcq> Lns: how much ram is allocated to vmware?
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| 14:49 | <Lns> jammcq: 3gb
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| 14:49 | <jammcq> and specifically, how much to that guest
| |
| 14:49 | <Lns> same :)
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| 14:49 | <jammcq> cuz swapping inside the guest wouldn't be good
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| 14:49 | <Lns> hmm, would it be sane to just 'noatime' the vmdk file itself?
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| 14:50 | <jammcq> can you do individual files?
| |
| 14:50 | <Lns> chattr +A filename
| |
| 14:50 | http://tldp.org/LDP/solrhe/Securing-Optimizing-Linux-RH-Edition-v1.3/chap6sec73.html
| |
| 14:51 | <jammcq> hmm
| |
| 14:51 | <Lns> of course noatime would be good for chroot / client boots simultaneously i think
| |
| 14:51 | err
| |
| 14:51 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 14:51 | <Lns> yeah..for the image probably
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| 14:52 | anyway, i'm off to observe a lab full, bbl :) thanks for the help all
| |
| 14:53 | <jammcq> sbalneav: ping
| |
| 14:54 | <alkisg> Lns: causing horrible hangs/delays during some operations (especially during the first ~10min startup of a win2k3 guest ==> that's usually the windows update service
| |
| 14:54 | Installing a local WSUS server helps a lot
| |
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| 14:56 | <ogra> vagrantc, lol, i wasnt aware lamont still does debian ia64
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| 14:59 | * vagrantc is struggling to write a proper debian/copyright for ltsp-docs | |
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| 15:25 | * vagrantc just changed some of the title information on ltsp-docs ... | |
| 15:25 | <vagrantc> hopefully nobody minds
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| 15:26 | this clause also kind of worries me: "If you modify the software in any way, identify your software as a variant of LTSP."
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| 15:26 | bieb has left #ltsp | |
| 15:27 | <vagrantc> do i need to actually patch the xml file and packaging information if i make debian-specific patches that don't make sense upstream?
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| 15:31 | <warren> Somebody with Ubuntu or Debian can check something for me?
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| 15:32 | <jammcq> hey warren, what do you need looked up?
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| 15:34 | <warren> jammcq: /usr/lib/pulse-*/modules/module-detect.so
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| 15:34 | jammcq: does this exist?
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| 15:35 | <Gadi> it does here
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| 15:35 | * Gadi waves to warren | |
| 15:35 | <warren> Gadi: versioned directory too?
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| 15:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: I am seeing /usr/lib/pulse-0.9/module-detect.so
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| 15:35 | <jammcq> umm
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| 15:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> no modules dir
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| 15:35 | <Gadi> /usr/lib/pulse-0.9/modules/module-detect.so
| |
| 15:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> that's in 9.04
| |
| 15:35 | <warren> Gadi: I'm still trying to figure out a solution to the module-detect vs. module-udev-detect problem
| |
| 15:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> woop, nm. modules dir was glazed over
| |
| 15:36 | <vagrantc> warren: i've got /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/module-detect.so on debian unstable.
| |
| 15:36 | <warren> I guess looking for the file isn't a good solution.
| |
| 15:36 | /usr/lib64/pulse-0.9.16/modules/module-udev-detect.so
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| 15:36 | <ogra> /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.16/modules/module-detect.so
| |
| 15:36 | <warren> /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.16/modules/module-udev-detect.so
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| 15:36 | <ogra> on karmic
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| 15:36 | <vagrantc> warren: don't have module-udev-detect
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| 15:36 | warren: with 0.9.15
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| 15:37 | <warren> module-udev-detect is pulesaudio-0.9.16+
| |
| 15:37 | module-detect is gone
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| 15:37 | <ogra> /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.16/modules/module-udev-detect.so
| |
| 15:37 | i have both
| |
| 15:37 | <vagrantc> warren: sure, so if it's present, use module-udev-detect, if it's not present, use module-detect ?
| |
| 15:37 | <ogra> but not .16+
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| 15:37 | <warren> OK, how should we make it pass the right option?
| |
| 15:37 | <Gadi> vagrantc++
| |
| 15:37 | <warren> vagrantc: detect present is not trivial becuase they are in different locations in different distributions
| |
| 15:37 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 15:38 | <vagrantc> warren: not exceedingly different, from anything i've heard thus far...
| |
| 15:38 | <warren> [warren@newcaprica ltsp-trunk]$ pulseaudio --version
| |
| 15:38 | <Gadi> if $(find ...)
| |
| 15:38 | <warren> pulseaudio 0.9.16-test6
| |
| 15:38 | how do we use that?
| |
| 15:38 | skeemer has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:38 | <ogra> split off pulseaudio 0.9.
| |
| 15:39 | if the remaining stuff is bigger than 16 use it
| |
| 15:40 | <skeemer> hello, got hopefully an easy question. i'm running ubuntu jaunty. if i add a printer on the server what do i have to do to make it available to the clients.
| |
| 15:42 | <warren> ogra: perhaps if 0.9 isn't there, assume it is some future version
| |
| 15:43 | <Gadi> testme=$(pulseaudio --version|sed -e 's/pulseaudio\s0\.9\.\([0-9]\+\).*$/\1/')
| |
| 15:43 | <warren> how does dash handle arithemetic?
| |
| 15:43 | <Gadi> if [ $testme -gt 15 ]; then ...
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| 15:44 | try that
| |
| 15:44 | <ogra> dash handles arithmetic as posix defines it
| |
| 15:45 | <Gadi> a little dash of ALU a little dash of registers...
| |
| 15:45 | :)
| |
| 15:47 | <alkisg> skeemer: nothing, as the programs that the users run actually run on the server
| |
| 15:48 | <skeemer> alkisg: that's what i thought, but they don't show up when they run openoffice
| |
| 15:48 | * vagrantc would use a case statement | |
| 15:49 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 15:49 | its faster
| |
| 15:49 | <skeemer> alkisg: would it matter if i added via the cups interface and not in gnome?
| |
| 15:50 | <alkisg> Ah, it wasn't autodetected? Maybe you added it only for the current user?
| |
| 15:50 | * alkisg only used auto-detected printers so far... they work fine with openoffice and all. | |
| 15:50 | <skeemer> alkisg: i added it via http://localhost:631
| |
| 15:50 | it's a network printer
| |
| 15:51 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:52 | <nubae> hmmm... Quassel is a pretty decent irc client
| |
| 15:52 | xchat is probably more mature, but this isnt bad
| |
| 15:53 | <alkisg> Urm what about empathy? :D
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| 15:54 | <warren> vagrantc: what would that look like as a case statement?
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| 15:54 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:54 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "pulseaudio versioning with case" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/492
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| 15:54 | <Q-FUNK> re
| |
| 15:54 | <vagrantc> warren: something like that ^^
| |
| 15:55 | <Q-FUNK> anybody with GX2 hardware who wants to test our latest and greatest xf86-video-geode ? ;)
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| 15:55 | <vagrantc> Q-FUNK: always the same with you :P
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| 15:55 | <Q-FUNK> vagrantc: I have a one-track mind :)
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| 15:56 | <warren> Q-FUNK: I don't have GX2 anymore
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| 15:56 | <Q-FUNK> oh
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| 15:56 | <warren> Q-FUNK: i'm sure gadi still supports customers using it
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| 15:56 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: hello dear ;)
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| 15:56 | <Gadi> yes, dear
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| 15:56 | <Q-FUNK> warren: yeah, he probably does
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| 15:56 | <Gadi> :P
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| 15:56 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: any GX2 hardware on hand?
| |
| 15:57 | <Gadi> plenty - just a lack of test environments
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| 15:57 | <Q-FUNK> arf
| |
| 15:57 | <Gadi> but, maybe I will stick one in my bag and test at home
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| 15:57 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 15:58 | <Gadi> I tried to do a liveCD the other day, but I needed to use a really old GX2 guy with a bios for usb cdrom and then it was painfully slow
| |
| 15:58 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi: GX2 support has been broken for a bit, but one X core dev just found a stupid typo in one of our commits. I pushed ubuntu packages to my PPA and need testers to confirm whether it finally fixes it.
| |
| 15:58 | <Gadi> plus, ubuntu doesn't blacklist gxfb
| |
| 15:58 | <Q-FUNK> doesn't it?
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| 15:58 | <Gadi> which usually cases issues
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| 15:58 | I don't think so
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| 15:58 | <Q-FUNK> at least, it does here
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| 15:58 | <Gadi> I think it still only blacklists gx1fb
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| 15:58 | oh yeah?
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| 15:58 | oh ok
| |
| 15:59 | well, the USB CDROM approach was not the way to go ;)
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| 15:59 | I need to PXE boot it at home
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| 15:59 | <warren> vagrantc: I'll commit something based on that case statement
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> case is often the easiest way to do pattern matching in shell
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| 16:01 | and flexible
| |
| 16:01 | <ogra> and fast
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| 16:02 | <nubae> Q-FUNK: hi!
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| 16:03 | <Q-FUNK> nubae: hi!
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| 16:10 | <warren> vagrantc: what is the best way to isolate the numbers in shell?
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| 16:10 | vagrantc: of pulseaudio --version
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| 16:11 | <vagrantc> warren: could do a case in a for loop... but that's kind of ugly.
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| 16:11 | <warren> [warren@newcaprica devel]$ pulseaudio --version |awk {'print $2'}
| |
| 16:11 | ?
| |
| 16:12 | <vagrantc> for v in $(pulseaudio --version) ; do case $v in ... pulseaudio ) ;; *) pulse_version=$v ;; esac ; done
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| 16:12 | yeah, awk is more readable.
| |
| 16:12 | <warren> I'm using it
| |
| 16:12 | <vagrantc> external binary ... but i'd prefer the readability
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| 16:12 | hopefully pulseaudio never gets fancy with the output of --version
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| 16:13 | <Q-FUNK> I'm getting more and more itred of pulseaudio. it keeps on trying to reinvent the wheel and it makes a worse attempt at it, at every release.
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| 16:16 | ftherese has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:17 | <ftherese> I am using ltsp-localapps with xubuntu jaunty but for some reason the menu does not launch the localapps
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| 16:18 | I can launch a localapps xterm
| |
| 16:18 | and I can launch firefox locally
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| 16:19 | as a localapps that is
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| 16:19 | but I have to do it command line style
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| 16:19 | <Gadi> do you have LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True
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| 16:19 | <ftherese> the menus do not update, despite my having followed the instructions to modify the lts.conf file
| |
| 16:20 | it has clearly modified my user apps list
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| 16:20 | for example, i enabled openoffice.org-writer in the LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS
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| 16:21 | along with calc an gimp
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc> is that the name of the .desktop file?
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| 16:21 | <ftherese> yup
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| 16:21 | <vagrantc> and is openoffice.org-writer installed in the chroot?
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| 16:21 | <ftherese> yes
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| 16:21 | they all show up in the menu
| |
| 16:21 | but when I run them it runs the servers copy... strange
| |
| 16:21 | <warren> I'm tagging ltsp-trunk later today.
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| 16:22 | <ftherese> only the ones I selected through the lts.conf file MENU_ITEMS show up in the applications menu
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| 16:23 | but when I run them, the server's copy runs
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| 16:23 | pmatulis has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:23 | <ftherese> could this be a problem with xubuntu/xfce4 menu working differently?
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> ftherese: you've rebooted the thin client after changing the lts.conf options?
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| 16:23 | <ftherese> yes...
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc> ftherese: easiest way to test that is to try gnome...
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| 16:24 | <ftherese> but I have to install that then... what a pain
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| 16:24 | and it will slow everything down
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| 16:24 | I am already working with slow equipment
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| 16:24 | alumno01 has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:25 | <alumno01> Hi, when I print with open office writer the upper margin configuration doesnt take effect and the document prints with upper margin 0
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> ftherese: well, no sense beating your head against a wall when something is testable.
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| 16:25 | <ftherese> is there anything else I can try before installing gnome?
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> ftherese: of course it's going to be more work to get an initial setup.
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| 16:25 | <ftherese> if not... I will just do that
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> ftherese: it's the simplest way to test if it's just broken on your server, or broken in xubuntu
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| 16:26 | <ftherese> okie dokie
| |
| 16:27 | do I need to install gnome on both the server and /opt/ltsp/i386 ?
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| 16:28 | probably not
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| 16:28 | never mind
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| 16:28 | just on the server...
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| 16:29 | 168MB... 1hour away
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| 16:29 | <alumno01> Hi, when I print with open office writer the upper margin configuration doesnt take effect and the document prints with upper margin 0
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| 16:30 | <ftherese> alumno01: does your issue relate to ltsp?
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| 16:30 | <alumno01> in some users it prints ok
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| 16:30 | but in others the config just doesnt take effect
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| 16:30 | all users have the same permissions
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| 16:31 | <ftherese> alumno01: sorry... that is beyond me...
| |
| 16:31 | <Lns> alkisg: thank you for that!! I want to say that I *thought* it might be windows update, but wasn't totally sure..i'm going to do the noatime, as well as disabling windows update service in the VMs. :)
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> stgraber, nubae: pretty impressively simple LTSP_FATCLIENT support! :)
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| 16:32 | <alkisg> Lns: another "common suspect" is the antivirus scanning & update
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| 16:32 | <Lns> alkisg: yeah..stupid windows! I thought i was getting away from it by doing ltsp ;)
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> If you have a windows server around, though, do install a wsus server, it'll take much of the heat away
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| 16:33 | <nubae> its all strgraber's work... think he just based it on the packages I install/dont install and guess printer/sound/local device support
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| 16:35 | <Lns> alkisg: yeah - that's another consultant's job... /me wonders if debuntu has a wsus daemon ;)
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| 16:35 | <ftherese> another thing that would be nice for local apps is the ability to install wine stuff
| |
| 16:35 | * Lns just got done building an 8.04lts local repository server on lenny | |
| 16:36 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
| 16:36 | <alkisg> Lns: I think I've seen an open source repository for proprietary windows apps, though... :D
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| 16:36 | <Lns> heh
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> apt-get install msword :P
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| 16:36 | <ftherese> if I do a chroot to /opt/ltsp/i386, how do I export the proper DISPLAY for wine, and which user should it install as?
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| 16:37 | wine is generally not supposed to install as root
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| 16:37 | but there is no information about adding users within the chroot
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| 16:38 | <nubae> alkisg: wow... what a wonderful contradiction.. an open source repo for closed sourced binaries... love it
| |
| 16:39 | or a closed source repo for open source projects would also be equally funny
| |
| 16:40 | * Lns is thinking an opensource citrix server would be cool instead of having to muck around with wine | |
| 16:40 | <alkisg> If I ever hear that MS replaced the MSI technology with something like the repositories used in Linux, I may boot windows once more to check it out. :)
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| 16:41 | <ftherese> so how would you install a wine app under the ltsp client (to run as a localapp)?
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| 16:41 | <Lns> alkisg: i doubt that'll ever happen.. just think of the 3rd pty devs that will completely ignore it for eons
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| 16:41 | no turning back now ;)
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| 16:41 | PMantis has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:42 | <PMantis> sbalneav: Have a minute?
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| 16:42 | <Lns> the community is already built with opensource..microsoft would be fighting an uphill battle for years before anything even remotely comparable would surface
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| 16:42 | <ftherese> *wonders if anyone can hear him
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> Lns, it's not that impossible... each vendor would have his own server, something like the PPAs in launchpad. And installing/updating software would be as easy as installing the vendor's ppa...
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| 16:43 | <Lns> alkisg: lol..yeah, imagine the legal headaches of that for a second
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> Why? Vendors would be distributing their own apps
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| 16:43 | <Lns> ftherese: we hear you, but most likely nobody knows the answer :)
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> They won't be microsoft hosted or anything
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| 16:44 | ftherese: wine isn't designed for multiple users
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| 16:44 | <Lns> alkisg: but it's tied to the microsoft name
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| 16:44 | <alkisg> If you install it for a user, I bet you can run it as a localapp
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| 16:44 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:44 | <alkisg> Because all the .wine directory would be visible locally with the sshfs
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| 16:44 | <Lns> you'd be using an MS interface to install third party apps..i dunno, i guess it could be possible but i highly doubt they're going to even try to be as cool as us ;)
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> Lns, everyone is already using an MS interface... the MSI installer :)
| |
| 16:45 | but anyway we're in #ltsp, let's leave it there.
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| 16:45 | <Lns> alkisg: agreed.. dont need to waste cycles ;)
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| 16:46 | I already do that enough w/ms
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| 16:47 | <ftherese> well.. how about this question then
| |
| 16:47 | when I do a chroot into /opt/ltsp
| |
| 16:47 | how am I supposed to export my DISPLAY correctly?
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| 16:48 | <alkisg> ftherese: to run wine apps locally, you *shouldn't* install them on the chroot.
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| 16:49 | <ftherese> well... that is what I do when I install the other apps...
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> I've never actually done it, but wine apps are installed on a per-user basis, so you'd need to install them on the server
| |
| 16:49 | <ftherese> I just figured I would follow the same procedure?
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| 16:49 | <alkisg> Then, sshfs would transfer them on the client and they'd run locally if you made an appropriate .desktop file
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| 16:49 | <ftherese> ok
| |
| 16:50 | <alkisg> No, wine apps generally aren't installed in the same way as other linux apps
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| 16:50 | <ftherese> ok
| |
| 16:50 | so If I install it on the server
| |
| 16:50 | what do I have to do to the desktop file?
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| 16:51 | <alkisg> Well, first you'd have to have installed wine in the chroot. Not the windows-app; just wine.
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| 16:51 | <ftherese> that is done
| |
| 16:52 | <alkisg> Then if the desktop file ran `ltsp-localapps wine windows-app` I guess it would run locally.
| |
| 16:53 | Again, I've never tried this, so I'm not sure that would work. That's what I would try, though...
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| 16:53 | Try it manually first: ltsp-localapps wine /home/user/.wine/path/to/app.
| |
| 16:54 | <ftherese> the problem is, the file to run is an installation file
| |
| 16:54 | <alkisg> Can you be more specific?
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| 16:54 | <PMantis> setup.exe ?
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| 16:54 | <vagrantc> ftherese: install wine on the server, install the application *not* as a localapps, make a .desktop icon to run it as a localapp, and you should be done.
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| 16:55 | <ftherese> for example... but this one is update.exe
| |
| 16:55 | <alkisg> " install the application *not* as a localapps" ==> means that you'd just logon as the user and run update.exe. No chroot involved in the windows-app installation.
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| 16:55 | <vagrantc> ftherese: or run "ltsp-localapps x-terminal-emulator" and run "wine path/to/your.exe
| |
| 16:56 | ftherese: main thing is just start trying *something*.
| |
| 16:56 | <ftherese> ok
| |
| 16:57 | I will run wine update.exe on the server
| |
| 16:57 | * vagrantc doesn't really know how wine works | |
| 16:57 | * alkisg is a little worried about sshfs not following symlinks. I think wine uses them... | |
| 16:57 | * Lns likes Pinos | |
| 16:58 | <ftherese> and then the problem is that the installed program depends upon the environment installed in the server
| |
| 16:58 | <alkisg> ...can you be more specific? :)
| |
| 16:58 | <vagrantc> ftherese: well, you're the one trying to use wine.
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| 16:58 | <ftherese> when you run wine
| |
| 16:59 | wine sets up a windows environment in /home/user/.wine
| |
| 16:59 | and then
| |
| 17:00 | your programs depend upon this environment
| |
| 17:00 | <alkisg> Yes, that's a per user dir. That's why you'll have to install the app for each user seperately
| |
| 17:00 | It doesn't depend on the server environment. It depends on the user ~/.wine dir.
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| 17:00 | <Lns> alkisg: you can't symlink ~/.wine ?
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| 17:00 | * Lns remembers this conversation a couple weeks ago | |
| 17:01 | <ftherese> so you would have to move the .wine directory to the chroot
| |
| 17:01 | <alkisg> ftherese: All the /home/user dir is visible to localapps, so /home/user/.wine is also visible.
| |
| 17:01 | That's why I was referring to sshfs. As vagrantc said, start trying :)
| |
| 17:01 | Lns: sshfs with the default options doesn't follow symlinks that point outside of the home dir
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| 17:02 | <Lns> ah
| |
| 17:02 | <alkisg> So if there's a link from ~/.wine/.../gecko to /usr/share/wine/gecko, it won't use it (unless it's also installed localy?)
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> so it's probably better to run the install program as a localapp ...
| |
| 17:03 | easiest way is from a terminal started as a localapp
| |
| 17:03 | <alkisg> No, I don't think that matters
| |
| 17:03 | <vagrantc> then you'll have the client environment
| |
| 17:03 | * alkisg looks for symlinks | |
| 17:03 | <vagrantc> gah. how did i get dragged into a conversation about supporting wine?
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| 17:04 | <Lns> ah, irc ;)
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| 17:04 | <alumno01> fixed, i imported a template with the new margin for each session
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| 17:04 | alumno01 has quit IRC | |
| 17:04 | <alkisg> OK no symlinks pointing out of ~/.wine :)
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| 17:04 | * Lns thinks irc has given me a ~20sec. attention span | |
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| 17:06 | <ftherese> I am installing on the server
| |
| 17:07 | * alkisg calls it a day. G'night all... | |
| 17:07 | <ftherese> good night
| |
| 17:07 | thanks
| |
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| 17:11 | <ftherese> trying a few things... i'll be back
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| 17:19 | <brftherese> Ok... tested the APPS_MENU on gnome
| |
| 17:19 | it works... so there is a bug with xubuntu-dekstop/xfce
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| 17:21 | any ideas why the lts.conf wouldn't export the MENU_ITEMS correctly to xfce4?
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> brftherese: it's more like that xfce isn't respecting the xdg configurations properly.
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| 17:29 | likely
| |
| 17:30 | as the LTSP code that generates these things does no checks whatsoever for which desktop you're using. it simply follows the xdg specifications
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| 17:57 | <brftherese> well... I have checked through the xdg stuff in xfce4, but I don't know what to look for... so I will try to compare it with gnome stuff
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| 17:57 | <Lns> heh, going back to my disk i/o bottleneck thing, saw this while going through the lists :) http://blog.gavinmc.com/?p=86
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| 18:50 | * vagrantc finally got around to testing the udhcpc hooks | |
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| 19:06 | <Lns> FYI: Added https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FilesystemOptimize for hints on optimizing the filesystem for LTSP servers...additions/edits welcome, as always :)
| |
| 19:07 | Doesn't have a whole heckofalot of info, just what I picked up today
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| 19:07 | but i'm sure it's going to help out a lot for people tweaking for performance
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| 20:48 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 21:26 | <sbalneav> Evening all
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| 21:30 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 21:33 | <sbalneav> Hey jammcq!
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| 22:09 | <chupacabra> jammcq? waddup?
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| 22:10 | jammcq: waddup?
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| 22:15 | <jammcq> chupacabra: HEY !!!!
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| 22:15 | wow, how have you been?
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| 23:17 | <chupacabra> good, looking for you.
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| 23:18 | jammcq: did I miss you?
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| 23:25 | email me
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