IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 15 May 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:18 | <jeblesh> need help setting up LTSP server with encrypted instolation of ubuntu desktop 18.0.4
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| 11:19 | clients show "worning: failed to connect to lvmetad"
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> jeblesh: why would it be encrypted,when you'll publish it unencrypted over the network over nbd?
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| 11:20 | Or are you expecting to type a password when each client boots?
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| 11:20 | <jeblesh> tipe pasword etch time ...
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| 11:21 | <alkisg> Are you using chrootless ltsp, or with chroot?
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| 11:22 | <jeblesh> any documeantation on how to properly configure that ?
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| 11:22 | chrootless
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> So when your server boots, you type a password to continue?
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| 11:22 | <jeblesh> yes
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> What's the output of this, on the server? cat /proc/cmdline
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| 11:22 | And this: sudo lsblk --fs
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| 11:22 | Put them to pastebin
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| 11:23 | Btw no, there's no documentation for uncommon use cases
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| 11:23 | <jeblesh> BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-4.18.0-20-generic root=/dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> in pxelinux.cfg/default, you might need to change root to nbdroot, so that you can put root=/dev/mapper etc
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| 11:24 | I haven't tried it
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| 11:24 | <jeblesh> https://pastebin.com/z5nB8a1m
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| 11:31 | im abit of a linux newbi from what i understand i need to hav a difrent image then the server on the clients and edit it so it will access the lvm difrntly ?
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| 11:32 | sso i shold start reinstalling ltsp with chroot and go from their ?
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| 11:34 | <alkisg> No, chroot will be much harder
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| 11:35 | I'll be back in a few hours though, later...
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| 11:41 | jeblesh: the cmdline on the clients is different, because we need a "network root"
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| 11:41 | You want a "network root AND lvm root", so you need like 2 root= commands
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| 11:42 | You can't pass 2 root commands, so you should use something like this:
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| 11:42 | <jeblesh> aoky
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> nbdroot=server-ip:/opt/ltsp/amd64 nbddev=/dev/nbd0 root=/dev/mapper/ubuntu--vg-root
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| 11:42 | But you won't easily find the exact cmdline there; it's pretty close to what I wrote above, but I haven't tested it so I'm not sure if it's exactly this one
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| 11:43 | I.e. don't search for documentation too much; you'd need to look at the code a bit, in /usr/share/initramfs-tools
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| 11:43 | Why do you need it to be encrypted? Usually the nbd image is public with no sensitive data
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| 11:44 | <jeblesh> that file is empty ....
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| 11:44 | its reqaermant's of the helth services hear ...
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| 11:45 | dono whay honestly seem exxessive
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| 11:46 | that file dont exist on the server /usr/share/initramfs-tools
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| 11:47 | do i miss sumthing ?
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> It's a directory, full of scripts, that handle nbd, lvm etc
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| 11:47 | It's the code that handles booting
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| 11:47 | <jeblesh> oh lol's
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| 11:47 | oky thenx
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> Are you typing from a phone?
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| 11:47 | <jeblesh> nop im dislectic sorry about the miss spells
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| 11:48 | <alkisg> no worries
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| 11:48 | <jeblesh> so it starts with init ...
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| 12:11 | <mwalters> hi jeblesh: I can only speak for US law, but I deal with a LOT of health info in what we do here. Only the personally identifiable health information is considered for encryption
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| 12:12 | e.g., health information which could be reasonably connected to a single person
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| 12:12 | we have our health information encrypted, but we don't do any encryption on our LTSP setups
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| 12:13 | even if our users stored health information, it would really only need to be their home folders that get encrypted
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| 12:13 | but yeah, not sure where you're at, or your specific use case even... but this is how I'm using LTSP when considering protected health information
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| 16:21 | <alkisg> Well, if one creates e.g. a VM in virtualbox with a fully encrypted disk, and has to type the password to unencrypt/boot it,
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| 16:21 | ...the same can be done after exporting that whole disk over the network; it's still encrypted
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| 17:38 | <josefig> hi ppl
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| 17:38 | that's an interesting scenario
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| 19:09 | <alkisg> vagrantc: if /proc/cmdline is "root=/dev/sda1 init=/sbin/init-ltsp quiet splash", then recent initramfs tools call init-ltsp with a single parameter of "splash"
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| 19:09 | So if one puts init=/bin/bash there, it just fails and causes kernel panic, as it can't understand the "splash" parameter
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| 19:09 | That'd be a bug of initramfs-tools, right?
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| 20:22 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm not sure, honestly ...
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| 20:22 | i vaguely recall the kernel can "eat" certain arguments that don't get passed on
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| 20:22 | <alkisg> vagrantc: never mind I found it, it's a kernel thing: https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/init/main.c#L291
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| 20:23 | ...which I interpret as, "put init=whatever as the last kernel parameter, otherwise you may experience biiig problems" :)
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| 20:25 | <vagrantc> i wonder how new this behavior is
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| 20:25 | and why we've not run into it before
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> Fortunately, in init-ltsp, we ignore command line parameters
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| 20:26 | <vagrantc> ignore unknown ones ... i thought it actually parsed some
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> But if someone had /bin/bash there, and "forcepae" at the end of cmdline, he'd have "bash forcepae", and a nice kernel panic trying to execute that
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| 20:27 | I'm not using init= at all in the newer ltsp, but we should document that pitfall somewhere anyway
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> you're just doing all the stuff from initramfs rather than a custom init?
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> Nah I just symlink ${rootmnt}/sbin/init to our own, to avoid having to specify an init
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| 20:31 | And to allow the user to override init if he wants to
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| 20:32 | Previously, the image had our init because it had ltsp-client installed; now we need to inject it anyway, so we might put it to its proper place
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| 20:33 | vagrantc: ah, and good news about nfs+single image: a stock buster VM can netboot from that, *without* a custom initramfs
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| 20:33 | A custom initramfs is only needed for squashfs, not for ext3
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| 20:33 | I managed to solve all the loop etc issues with some modprobe options
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> nice!
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| 20:36 | the symlink happens from the initramfs on the overlay fs?
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| 20:36 | this sure is sounding more elegant than all the hacks we've been doing :)
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> (11:36:03 PM) vagrantc: the symlink happens from the initramfs on the overlay fs? ==> exactly; then our init puts it back, and execs it
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> "puts it back" ?
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| 20:38 | also, sbin might be a symlink now
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| 20:38 | <alkisg> mv init init.bak; put our own; then pivot_root execs ours; then we mv init.bak init; then exec init
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| 20:39 | A symlink is better, as it only wastes an inode in the cow space; older inits waste more (mv costs a lot :))
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| 20:39 | <vagrantc> why can't you just exec it rather than "putting it back"
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| 20:39 | <alkisg> In case they want to check, "oh, is /sbin/init pointing to systemd? no; then we're using upstart" and other silly things
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| 20:40 | So, any disk image that is bootable locally (vagrant, docker, even .isos with squashfs) already has the necessary modules, so it should work without modifications at all
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| 20:41 | And if we manage to inject squashfs as part of ltsp-update-image... we're back to not needing an ltsp client package :D
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> ah, /sbin/init is itself a symlink (at least with systemd), so moving it doesn't have to move the binary
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| 20:41 | <alkisg> Yes I'm only moving the symlink,not the binary
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| 20:41 | <vagrantc> i wonder if the other inits also work that way..
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| 20:42 | not that there are many left
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| 20:42 | <alkisg> The worst that can happen is that we waste a few kb in the cow space
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| 20:42 | For the moves
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| 20:43 | <vagrantc> well, with systemd it's ~1.4mb ... but looks like sysvinit is only ~50kb
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| 20:43 | and with systemd it's a symlink, so it's practically free
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| 20:44 | <alkisg> I also tried to bind-mount it temporarily, but I was worried that it leaves open file handles to the initramfs rootfs
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| 20:45 | <alkisg> Btw, if TFTP=/srv/ltsp, then we won't have another "ltsp" subdir there, right? Now it's /var/lib/tftpboot and then ltsp and then image,
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| 20:46 | afterwards it'll be /srv/ltsp and image
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| 20:46 | Hopefully people aren't using tftp that much, to need an ltsp subdir...
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| 20:46 | (i.e. it won't appear in the default boot.ipxe, in the kernel xxx; initrd yyy; lines)
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> hmmm.
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| 20:47 | in general, i'd rather be flexible than hard-coded ...
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| 20:47 | but i'm not sure how much overhead it would take to move it
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| 20:47 | <alkisg> They can manually modify boot.ipxe, that's all
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| 20:48 | <vagrantc> boot.ipxe is a script?
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> If we put too many options, it then gets too complicated
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| 20:48 | Yes, an ipxe script
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| 20:48 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 20:48 | sounds reasonable
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| 20:49 | alkisg: you got any of this new stuff published anywhere yet?
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> My test one is a bit big, but here's a sample: https://termbin.com/q8yp
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| 20:50 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I'm uploading things to https://github.com/eellak/gsoc2019-ltsp, but I'll rewrite history later, my commit messages now are "brainstorming.." etc etc
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> wow, the ipxe script has mac address matching built-in?
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 20:51 | I'm hoping that simple installations won't even need an lts.conf
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> and you can chain-load pxelinux?
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| 20:51 | <alkisg> Yes, although in efi it has issues
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| 20:52 | It works in bios mode
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| 20:52 | And I'm keeping development notes at the https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/wiki which will be our final wiki; but i'll rewrite history there too once I've finished the rapid development stage
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| 20:53 | <vagrantc> pretty cool
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| 20:53 | <alkisg> Also,I'm planning to set up a project at https://github.com/ltsp/community, where users can maintain unofficial wikis and file/answer issues, replacing the mailing list
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| 20:53 | While https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp will be only for bug reports and official wiki
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> so PXE loads ipxe, ipxe loads boot.ipxe and prompts with a menu (or not) and boots
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| 20:55 | <alkisg> Right. I'm thinking to default to a menu, and anyone that wants to hide it can modify a single line
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| 20:55 | <vagrantc> right
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| 20:55 | <alkisg> And users that use win32-loader or local ipxe, those directly get boot.ipxe
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| 20:56 | dnsmasq.conf is a bit trickier now: https://github.com/eellak/gsoc2019-ltsp/blob/master/ltsp/configs/dnsmasq.conf
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| 20:56 | So that it can handle uefi as well
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| 20:57 | Someone using isc-dhcp should read it and offer the equivalent :D
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> also really looking forward to the licensing clarity we can get by starting from scratch
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| 20:57 | <alkisg> Ah, are the 3 copyright lines on top ok?
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| 20:57 | # This file is part of LTSP, https://ltsp.github.io # Copyright 2019 the LTSP team, see AUTHORS # SPDX-License-Identifier: GPL-3.0-or-later
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| 20:58 | ..and AUTHORS says just this: Please see https://github.com/ltsp/ltsp/graphs/contributors
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| 20:58 | It's 2019, we're using git, no need to manually list names :D
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> not bad.
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| 21:00 | alkisg: so you'll be doing a mad rush on this till august or september?
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| 21:00 | that should pretty much be perfect timing to get it into debian :)
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| 21:01 | <alkisg> Till August. Then hopefully I'll test it on some schools on september, and maybe put it to all schools next summer with ubuntu 20.04 or buster
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| 21:02 | vagrantc: are we going to keep an ltsp5 package for users that might need it? Or too much overhead for no reason?
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: depends on how far along it is in the next 3-6 months, no? :)
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> True
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| 21:04 | OK let's see how it fares
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| 21:05 | (12:00:57 AM) vagrantc: that should pretty much be perfect timing to get it into debian :) ==> that's the next debian after buster, right?
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> i'd rather reduce the amount of legacy code, and this will be coming in right near the beginning of a ~2 year development cycle for debian
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> So we can continue uploading newer versions for a year or so?
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| 21:06 | That's fine then, no need for the old one
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> yeah, definitely not going to happen for buster ... bullseye is the next codename ... which i just realized earlier today has strikingly positive connotations
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> :D
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| 21:07 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we could start uploading to experimental tomorrow if there was something worth uploading :)
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> I'm thinking it might be best to keep it in experimental until ubuntu 20.04 finishes synching from debian,
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| 21:08 | so that 20.04 users get the old ltsp, and 20.04 *greek schools ppa* users get the new one
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| 21:08 | and bullseye gets the new one
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| 21:10 | Pumpkin time! 'night all!
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| 21:21 | * vagrantc waves | |
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