IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 5 February 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:18 | * vagrantc looks to see if there's any unresolved diff with ltsp | |
| 00:18 | <vagrantc> between debian and ubuntu
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| 00:19 | looks like there is ...
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| 01:31 | <derekn> Could anyone give me some pointers on getting sound to work in LTSP? I'm booting a thin client to xfreerdp and no sound devices are detected. If I go in to LDM and enter pulseaudio -vvv it starts my sound card and I can get audio from it.
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| 01:56 | <derekn> Does anyone know how to forward sound using freerdp in ltsp?
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| 05:02 | <alkisg> Good morning everyone
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| 05:05 | vagrantc: why was "manpages-use-debian-version" needed? the version is applied to late with sed and the `ltsp-tool --version` command isn't working at that point?
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| 05:05 | *too
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| 05:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the version the sed is applied to is both too late, and the wrong file
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| 05:06 | alkisg: it applies to the packaged file, the manpages use the source file
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| 05:06 | <alkisg> vagrantc: OK, what if we defined the version in the environment? would that work?
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| 05:07 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i spent all day workiing on that one issue ... took forever to figure out why the DEB_VERSION variable wasn't recognized... still not sure what made it work.
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| 05:07 | alkisg: in which environment?
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| 05:07 | alkisg: basically, i defined it from debian/rules
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| 05:07 | <alkisg> Suppose the build tools (rules) set LTSP_VERSION, and ltsp_version() then echo'es it if it's defined...
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| 05:07 | <vagrantc> so it's in the environment
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| 05:08 | <alkisg> But, hmm, wait...
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| 05:08 | <vagrantc> honestly, it seemed like a lot of energy for something that didn't even seem to be broken :P
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| 05:08 | <alkisg> The AC_* directives used to work fine, are those applied in source and not in target files?
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| 05:09 | The help2man --version-string is a hack for programs that are broken because they don't follow gnu policy :)
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| 05:09 | So it was broken, wasn't it? :)
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| 05:10 | The reason --version-string was not available in older versions is just because it's a hack that we shouldn't need in the first place...
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| 05:11 | <vagrantc> also, MODULES_BASE isn't working quite correctly ... ltsp-build-client doesn't have any vendor-specific plugins
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| 05:11 | alkisg: yes, it was technically "broken" with a useable workaround for anything remotely recent :P
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| 05:12 | * vagrantc is disappointed to have delayed the upload another week | |
| 05:12 | <vagrantc> maybe i can fit it in sometime sooner ... meh.
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| 05:13 | <alkisg> Delaying another week is a good thing, it allows for more things to get pushed... although then you'll complain because more testing will be needed :P
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| 05:14 | <vagrantc> perfection is the enemy of good.
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| 05:15 | <alkisg> !alkisg-todo
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| 05:15 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) upload fixed nbd-server package in the PPA, or (#2) LDM password hash, or (#3) Check ltsp bugs in debian.org, or (#4) ltsp-config aoe (for swap too), or (#5) Hooks for running scripts on these phases: INITRD/INIT/RC/DM/AUTH/LOGIN/SESSION/PERIODIC/LOGOUT/SHUTDOWN, or (#6) "support logind for fat clients"
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| 05:15 | <vagrantc> at some point, i'd rather have a newer version uploaded with a few quirks that we fix with more minor uploads
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| 05:15 | <alkisg> I think I'd only want #5 and #6 for now...
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| 05:15 | logind is pretty important, fat sessions would not be considered active without it
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| 05:16 | <vagrantc> i better upload before you get around to that stuff! :P
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 05:16 | <vagrantc> logind. meh.
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| 05:16 | <alkisg> Sure... but unfortunately it breaks things and we need to fix them
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| 05:16 | <vagrantc> today just felt like broken day.
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| 05:17 | * alkisg hugs vagrantc and promises to take care of the versioning thing from some Makefile in the future... | |
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| 05:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, with the packaging patch and whatnot, it basically works ... though obviously relying on the --version-string= hack for help2man
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| 05:20 | <alkisg> Cool, I'll try to have #6 and #5 committed and tested until this weekend
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| 05:20 | <vagrantc> i still don't understand what made the DEB_VERSION variable work... essentially cargo-culted that.
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| 05:20 | <alkisg> When was it not working?
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| 05:20 | When it was DEBVERSION?
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| 05:21 | <vagrantc> tweaked it till $GODS were satisfied
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> *DEBVERS
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| 05:21 | :D
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| 05:22 | <vagrantc> well, i changed the syntax from your google search a bit, put the arguments to sed in a different order, and eventually switched to DEB_VERSION for good measure just cuz it's more readable to me
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| 05:22 | thhe finer points of make are still lost on me.
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| 05:29 | <alkisg> Ty Vagrant... bb in 1h, will work on #6 then :)
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| 11:17 | <gbaman> alkisg?
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> ?
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| 11:19 | <gbaman> when setting up using the LTSP PNP guide, does it set up a DHCP server
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| 11:19 | that gives out its own IPs?
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| 11:19 | <alkisg> No
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| 11:19 | <gbaman> in the dnsmasq file, the dhcp-range was not commented out?
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> There are instructions to run ltsp-config dnsmasq to fix the range
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| 11:20 | <gbaman> did that
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| 11:20 | it is the config file it generated
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> When you do that while connected to a network, the correct dhcp range goes to that file
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| 11:23 | <gbaman> does this config file run its own DHCP server? http://pastebin.com/kQKeU2nQ
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| 11:24 | <alkisg> dhcp-range=192.168.67.20,192.168.67.250,8h => this range is not used unless you put a static ip there
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| 11:24 | dhcp-range=192.168.1.0,proxy => this is the range that is used
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| 11:24 | In the 192.168.1.0 range, it's a proxy dhcp server
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| 11:24 | <gbaman> so you are certain it is not acting as a normal DHCP server dishing out addresses?
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 11:25 | <gbaman> I have a technical accusing my box of being a DHCP server and breaking his network
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| 11:25 | he has persuaded himself that it must be my box, not an infected other machine
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| 11:26 | *technician
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| 11:26 | <alkisg> What's your server ip?
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| 11:26 | <gbaman> currently, it does not have one, as he has switched his DHCP server off..
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> Your ltsp server, I mean
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| 11:27 | What _was_ its ip?
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| 11:27 | 192.168.1.something?
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| 11:27 | <gbaman> i believe so, but cant remember
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| 11:28 | <alkisg> Then no it wouldn't work as a real dhcp server, only as a proxy one
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| 11:28 | And you can verify that from the server logs
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| 11:28 | <gbaman> which log?
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| 11:28 | <alkisg> Ask in the dnsmasq mailing list for details
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| 11:28 | * alkisg needs to do some work, sorry... | |
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| 16:59 | <other_other_joe> heya
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| 16:59 | I'm trying to find a good way to re-sync my aufs / on my fat clients without rebooting
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| 17:00 | after making changes in my chroot the /rofs/ does reflect the changes but not the running / on the client
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| 17:02 | <other_other_joe> It'd be nice to add a printer to /etc/cups/printers.conf, for instance, without rebooting my entire floor
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| 17:02 | if'n anyone has any suggestions I'd welcome them
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| 17:10 | <gbaman> well alkisg, the technician decided to turn the main school DHCP server off today...
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| 17:10 | when I was due to come in to teach 50 kids using the LTSP network...
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| 17:14 | <joe_sizlack> bummer
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| 17:14 | turn it back on :)
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| 17:19 | <gbaman> he disconnected it and was testing a new solution, which didnt work and refused to go back to the old one
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| 17:20 | <Hyperbyte> You know, this kind of stuff only happens in public companies.
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| 17:20 | <alkisg> The technician should be in charge of deploying ltsp :)
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| 17:21 | Then he wouldn't shoot himself in the foot...
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| 17:21 | <Hyperbyte> If my boss would walk in with 50 customers and I'd just be experimenting around "oh, sorry, the stuff you wanted to use today isn't available, and I won't make it available immediately", he'd probably have my job.
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| 17:21 | <joe_sizlack> agreed
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> You can very easily set up a dhcp server in ltsp-pnp though, just set your server ip to 192.168.67.1
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| 17:22 | <gbaman> i doubt this school technician has ever used a linux machine in his life
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| 17:22 | wait... you are telling me it was that easy...
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| 17:22 | I only had about 20 mins from discovering it was broke, to the kids turning up
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| 17:23 | <Hyperbyte> 1 minute is all the LTSP oracle needs.
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| 17:23 | !alkisg
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| 17:23 | <ltsp> alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
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| 17:23 | <gbaman> :)
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> damn bot :P
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| 17:23 | bbiab
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| 17:24 | <gbaman> alkisg you are saying all I would have needed to do was set the server to that IP and it would have enabled itself as DHCP server?
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| 17:25 | <joe_sizlack> well, setting up your ltsp server as a dhcp server to server address on a range that wouldn't have conflicted with your schools other IP ranges
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| 17:26 | would be a relatively simple process, is what I think he was saying
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| 17:26 | <gbaman> i dont care about the rest of the school :)
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| 17:27 | anyways, bbl
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| 17:28 | <joe_sizlack> haha, well no one gets to play with IP conlicts flying around
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| 17:29 | what am I missing with this aufs thing guys? Seems there would be a way to refresh my / => /rofs/ relationship
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| 17:41 | I am using NFS rather than NBD, also
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| 17:41 | suppose thats noteworthy
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| 17:49 | <Hyperbyte> joe_sizlack, why are you using NFS instead of NBD?
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> gbaman: yes, ltsp-pnp configured dnsmasq like that
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| 17:50 | <alkisg> joe_sizlack: you're having some aufs related problem?
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| 17:55 | <joe_sizlack> not really a problem
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| 17:55 | I just updated my chroot and I'd like my aufs'd / to reflect it
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| 17:56 | /rofs/ does
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| 17:56 | Hyperbyte, I like NFS for fault tollerance
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| 17:57 | It's plenty fast and if keeps me in HA
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| 17:57 | s/if/and
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| 18:02 | seems like there should be a way I could re-sync it
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| 18:17 | <gbaman> alkisg, this thing about images being cached on the clients, what was the thing to search for again?
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| 18:19 | as that could be very useful for Raspberry Pis
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| 18:22 | <alkisg> !local-boot
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| 18:22 | <ltsp> local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 18:27 | <alkisg> PIs are only good for thin clients, so they need 100 mbps each, so there's not much point in having a local copy of the disk
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| 18:27 | The local copy makes sense mostly for fat clients
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| 18:29 | <gbaman> alkisg it is fat client pis I am interested only in
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| 18:30 | but there must be a way to update the image automatically
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> You have a dual core pi? :)
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| 18:30 | <gbaman> no?
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> They don't have good cpus, they're very slow
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| 18:30 | <gbaman> and?
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| 18:30 | they will run at the speed pis normally run at
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| 18:30 | <alkisg> Sure, if that's good enough for you...
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| 18:30 | From what I've heard, they're not good enough for normal use in schools
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| 18:31 | Anyways, your call
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| 18:31 | <gbaman> it is more there are 1000s out in schools currently
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| 18:31 | with 1 user on each SD card
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| 18:31 | when that SD card fails?
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| 18:32 | is what https://github.com/gbaman/RaspberryPi-LTSP is for
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| 18:33 | Basically, in an ideal world, here is what I want
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| 18:33 | LTSP fat clients
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| 18:33 | that contain a cached image after their first boot
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| 18:33 | (aka boot with just the initial kernel first time like we currently do)
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> Sure, the local copy and dmcache can help there
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| 18:34 | <gbaman> (I don't like writing 20-30 sd cards :) )
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> You can do it with 1 command from epoptes
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| 18:34 | <gbaman> then with the push of a button on the teachers part, image gets updated
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| 18:34 | a new one is copied over, likely on boot
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| 18:35 | <alkisg> No need for all those
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| 18:35 | dmcache uses the sd for nbd caching
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| 18:35 | So it would all be automatic with no delays for the copying
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| 18:35 | <gbaman> All the time having access to LTSPs other nice features, like graphical login, network users and easy implementation of epoptes
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| 18:35 | oh?
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| 18:36 | so it caches it live?
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> It would, yup
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| 18:36 | <gbaman> ..
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| 18:37 | <gbaman> so the initial bit is easy, just booting first time with just the kernel
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| 18:37 | ?
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> You can always netboot, it's not that resource intensive...
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| 18:37 | (the kernel and initrd)
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| 18:38 | <gbaman> pis cant do pxe booting btw, so they need kernel and initrd on the sd card
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| 18:38 | can nicely fit on 32mb sd card :)
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| 18:39 | <joe_sizlack> no way to reload the aufs / without bouncing the clients that you know of, alkisg ?
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> gbaman: ok, that then
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| 18:40 | <gbaman> So on first boot, it boots, finds LTSP server, then starts copying over the image? Can it be fat client network booting at the same time?? Or am I understanding this wrong?
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> joe_sizlack: vagrantc is the nfs/aufs expert, sorry :)
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| 18:40 | <joe_sizlack> ah
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| 18:40 | no worries
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| 18:40 | <alkisg> bbiab
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| 18:40 | <gbaman> and it read from its cached OS copy?
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| 18:40 | <joe_sizlack> thx
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| 18:40 | <gbaman> still on first OS boot..
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| 18:41 | <joe_sizlack> gbaman, when you client boots and pulls a boot config from the tftp server, that config points to your local cached copy of the OS
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| 18:42 | <gbaman> but it does not have a local cached copy at the start...
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| 18:42 | <joe_sizlack> oh yea, from the start you'd have to boot over the network
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| 18:43 | <gbaman> keep in mind, 30 clients on 100mbit network here
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| 18:45 | <joe_sizlack> it's either you spend the time netbooting and caching your 30 clients over the network or make the cached SD cards or whatever by hand
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| 18:45 | <gbaman> i am happy for the first boot to take longer
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| 18:45 | <joe_sizlack> I"d start it up at the end of the day, personally
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| 18:45 | that way they're all sorted, come morning
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| 18:46 | <gbaman> first boot can take a lot longer if need be
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| 18:46 | but updates to images, not if possible
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| 18:46 | so for updates, load as a normal network fat client until the copy is done
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| 18:47 | well, if compressed, how long would it really take if we just stopped kids using them
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| 18:47 | <joe_sizlack> I was trying to work out an elagent solution to that myself a while ago
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| 18:47 | <gbaman> both times, could get away with computers being unusable while they update
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| 18:48 | as long as the user is shown something :D
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| 18:50 | does that sound feasible?
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| 18:51 | <joe_sizlack> yea, I put together a boot splash
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| 18:51 | using the plymouth package
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| 18:51 | and some pretty colors with my company's graphic
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| 18:53 | It does
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| 18:54 | when you update your chroot for instance, you'd change your pxelinux.cfg/default to point the root fs to your ltsp server, rather than you local sd card or whatever
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| 18:54 | then the card would be re-cached
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| 18:55 | they'd need to reboot though, in order to use the local card as root
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| 18:55 | so, again, I'd so all that at night
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| 18:55 | <gbaman> well that isnt an issue
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| 18:56 | the OSs are huge on a pi, 2-3gb
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| 18:56 | and compressed?
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| 18:56 | *arent
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| 18:56 | <joe_sizlack> they're compressed
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| 18:56 | using squashfs
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| 18:56 | <gbaman> was meaning, the Raspberry Pi OS isnt very large, even smaller when compressed
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| 18:58 | checking size now
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| 18:58 | <joe_sizlack> bbl
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| 18:59 | <gbaman> 2gb
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| 18:59 | uncompressed
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| 18:59 | that isnt bad
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| 19:45 | <alkisg> When a client boots, 50 mb are transferred over the network
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| 19:45 | dm-cache would copy those to local storage
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| 19:45 | On the next boot, almost nothing would be transferred over the network...
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| 19:45 | Same for opening libreoffice, firefox etc
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| 19:46 | <alkisg> So imho it's the best way to speed up ltsp "disk" access when there's local storage available...
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| 19:51 | <gbaman> hmm
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| 19:51 | guess the question is, how stupidly complicated would it be to set something like that up and is it really worth it?
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| 19:53 | <alkisg> 20 clients * 500 mbit = 10.000 mbit, devide by your network speed e.g. 100 mbps => 100 seconds to transfer the boot "sectors" to the clients
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| 19:53 | Launching libreoffice needs twice as much, so 200 seconds
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| 19:54 | So yeah on 100 mbps networks it's surely worth it
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| 19:54 | <gbaman> hmm
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| 19:55 | and we are talking for this setup, 30 clients :D
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| 19:55 | ok, so dont dump the entire OS over at the start? Only cache it from when it is needed?
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| 19:55 | so first time will be slow
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> Only cache the things the clients reads anyway
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| 19:56 | So no additional network traffic at all, only less traffic
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| 19:56 | <gbaman> again though, complexity to set up?
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| 19:57 | <alkisg> To code it, some. To deploy it, not really.
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| 19:57 | ltsp.cache=/dev/sda1 or something should be enough to deploy it...
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| 19:58 | <gbaman> we just talking about a bash script?
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 19:58 | <gbaman> ok..
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| 19:59 | ok, well i will bbl, sounds promising though
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| 19:59 | remember, will be teachers deploying, so must be simple!
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| 22:38 | <derekn> Does anyone know how to get pulse audio to work when running xfreerdp as a screen?
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| 23:18 | <derekn> Is there a place to set which user logs in to a screen for example if I have SCREEN_01 = shell?
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