IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 July 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:21 | <Hyperbyte> !alkisg
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| 09:21 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: alkisg: The LTSP oracle. Our beacon of hope in the world of LTSP. With the guidance of this divine emperor, we shall prevail.
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| 09:39 | <muppis> :D
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| 09:43 | <Hyperbyte> I have some problem with a Ubuntu server, but I think I need to consult the oracle for that...
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| 09:44 | Disk usage bogs down the CPU like crazy... ltsp-update-image takes ~5 minutes at full CPU
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| 09:44 | I'd normally blame this on the hardware, but I kind of trust the hardware...
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| 09:45 | <muppis> Is there IO wait during?
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| 09:45 | <Hyperbyte> Yessir.
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| 09:45 | I've tried 'noapic acpi=off' in kernel command line, but that didn't change much, if anything.
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| 09:47 | hdparm -t /dev/sda reports very good speed (85 MB/sec)... but apart from that I'm getting lousy performance.
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| 09:51 | <muppis> I assume no raid?
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| 09:55 | <Hyperbyte> No raid!
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| 10:00 | <Hyperbyte> I just ran ltsp-update-image, to time it... it spent about 10 minutes, managed to finish ~700mb out of 1GB image and then crashed
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| 10:02 | <muppis> Hmm..
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| 10:03 | At my home: dd if=/opt/ltsp/images/amd64.img of=/dev/null
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| 10:03 | 3084189696 bytes (3.1 GB) copied, 51.8289 s, 59.5 MB/s
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| 10:04 | <Hyperbyte> 1007648768 bytes (1.0 GB) gekopieerd, 11.4857 s, 87.7 MB/s
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| 10:04 | Seems like that goes fast.
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| 10:04 | Maybe it's just writing that's problem.
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| 10:05 | Huh
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| 10:05 | dd if=i386.img of=tmpfile
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| 10:05 | 1007648768 bytes (1.0 GB) gekopieerd, 21.5191 s, 46.8 MB/s
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| 10:06 | <muppis> How about dd if=/dev/urandom of=tmpfile bs=1024 count=100
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> That's quite small isn't it?
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| 10:07 | 102400 bytes (102 kB) gekopieerd, 0.0113257 s, 9.0 MB/s
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| 10:08 | <muppis> Yeah, too small.
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| 10:08 | <Hyperbyte> I made it 100 megabyte
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| 10:08 | 102400000 bytes (102 MB) gekopieerd, 11.3588 s, 9.0 MB/s
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| 10:09 | That's about the same speed as on another machine that is working okay
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| 10:09 | To me, it looks like hardware is absolutely fine, but something's wrong i/o wise somewhere.
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| 10:09 | <muppis> Looks same to me.
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| 10:13 | 1073741824 bytes (1.1 GB) copied, 107.65 s, 10.0 MB/s
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| 10:16 | <Hyperbyte> I think I need the oracle.
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| 10:18 | <muppis> Yep.
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| 10:47 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, can you read the logs? :)
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Hi Hyperbyte... so, this only happens with ltsp-update-image?
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| 10:50 | Try `chmod -x /usr/bin/ionice; ltsp-update-image`
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| 10:55 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, okay... what am I looking for?
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| 11:14 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: if it solves your problem
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| 11:15 | <Hyperbyte> Nope, still slow
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| 11:16 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: any nfs or other file system involved?
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| 11:17 | <Hyperbyte> Nope.
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| 11:17 | Well file system sure, but ext4 local disk.
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: du -sh /lib
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| 11:18 | <Hyperbyte> 542 MB, very fast...
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> time mksquashfs /lib /tmp/lib.squashfs
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| 11:18 | If it takes less than a minute, no problem there
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| 11:19 | (or 2 mins, depending on your CPU)
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| 11:19 | <Hyperbyte> Timing now.... :)
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> (time was a command btw, not a verb, in case you didn't know it)
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| 11:20 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, I know. :)
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> k
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| 11:21 | How many cpu cores?
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| 11:21 | <Hyperbyte> 1.
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| 11:21 | <alkisg> Ah, make it 4 mins then, I thought you had a GOOD server :P
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| 11:21 | <muppis> :D
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> (Hyperbyte is always teasing me about my lousy school servers :D)
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| 11:22 | <muppis> :)
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| 11:23 | There's ML350 G4 on floor as unused.. I was thinkig does anybody notice if I take it to home..
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| 11:24 | <Hyperbyte> Alkis, this is at the radio station.... but I'm already fed up with the speed of this server now.....
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| 11:24 | It took 6 minutes and 18 seconds.
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| 11:25 | This weekend we're gonna replace it with an Intel Xeon... this experimental machine I took is just too old...
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| 11:26 | Is it problematic to virtualize an LTSP server?
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| 11:32 | <muppis> Hyperbyte, not really.
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| 11:32 | Only what really need to focus is network topology to get clients working.
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: grep 'model name' /proc/cpuinfo
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| 11:42 | <muppis> That mksquashfs time took 7 min 27 at my home server. 2.6 GHz dualcore AMD
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Took 30 secs for me, but with only 172 MB in /lib
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| 11:43 | (intel dual core laptop)
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| 11:45 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it's an AMD Athlon XP 3200+ (2.0 ghz)
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| 11:46 | In other words, it is normal for ltsp-build-client to take so long?
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html
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| 11:46 | <Hyperbyte> Errr, ltsp-update-image
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| 11:46 | <alkisg> I.e. it's just a bit faster than my daughter's 3 year old NETBOOK
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| 11:46 | <Hyperbyte> Heh
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| 11:47 | <alkisg> Your score: 525, netbook = 370, my 4 years old laptop = 1500
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| 11:47 | So yeah, it's normal to take so long with that processor
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| 11:47 | <Hyperbyte> Heh
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| 11:47 | I'm just gonna wait for the new server and virtualize LTSP
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> Nah, keep the old one for a few months so that you get to sympathize school old servers more :D
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| 11:49 | <muppis> This is odd, and offtopic: model name : AMD Processor model unknown
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| 11:49 | <alkisg> muppis: try also dmidecode
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| 11:51 | You can then google with the signature if it doesn't specify a model name there either
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| 11:54 | <Hyperbyte> muppis, most of the times that's Opteron
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| 11:54 | <muppis> I think that motherboard does not regonize it correctly as it dmidecode shows all wrong anything about cpu hardware.
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| 11:55 | <Hyperbyte> muppis, you are logged in on the correct server? :P
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| 11:55 | <muppis> Sure. :)
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| 11:55 | <Hyperbyte> Just checking. ;-)
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| 11:56 | <muppis> Googled ID and founded from Ubuntuforums someone else's dmidecode and there is Athlon 64 X2, as is should be.
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| 11:59 | <muppis> Well, if I get to my playing-PC quadcore, I'll take AMD out from server and will put c2d E6300 back there.
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| 11:59 | <Hyperbyte> mhm
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| 12:04 | <muppis> But that's in future.
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| 14:06 | <PhoenixSTF> Hello
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| 14:06 | has anyone tested watching a video of a flash in a terminal?
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| 14:07 | <dead_inside> i can watch 7 flash videos and play two different flash games at the same time on our fat clients
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| 14:08 | so yea it works
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| 14:08 | the quality just depends on your setup
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| 14:09 | <PhoenixSTF> and the network holds, no glitches, no hickups?
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| 14:10 | <Hyperbyte> PhoenixSTF, fat clients don't stream video over the network.
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| 14:10 | Thin clients do. But you haven't said which one you're planning to use.
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| 14:10 | <PhoenixSTF> fat clients process on the client, so not thin right?
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| 14:10 | <dead_inside> i have thin clients that can watch one video and play one game just fine
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| 14:10 | <PhoenixSTF> I was thinking on raspeberry pi
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| 14:10 | for local schools
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| 14:10 | <dead_inside> no gitches
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| 14:11 | <Hyperbyte> If you want to use flash on thin clients, my advice is: don't. It holds up with a gigabit network, but when I watch fullscreen flash at 1920x1200 it stutters.
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| 14:11 | <dead_inside> oh yes gig network is a must
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| 14:11 | <Hyperbyte> If you're worried about watching flash video via your browser (such as YouTube), there are awesome plugins for Firefox which make use of xvideo, so are very, very fast.
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| 14:11 | When I use an xvideo plugin for Firefox I can watch fullscreen YouTube with no problems.
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| 14:11 | <dead_inside> and youtube also has alot of their videos in html5
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| 14:12 | <PhoenixSTF> thats neet :)
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| 14:12 | well the issue is my university and local schools are having issues, and I am trying to present a clean and cheap solution
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| 14:13 | to maximize the work on support and maintenence, and reducing cost, energy, and of course using free/open software
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| 14:14 | <dead_inside> they are having issue with flash?
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| 14:14 | <PhoenixSTF> so it's kind of a one man only project, but when the budget is very low, they wont buy Dell or hp cause they dont have the money
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| 14:14 | not really
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| 14:15 | they have P4 old machines
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| 14:15 | power ungry with Windows Xp on them
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| 14:15 | <dead_inside> and they play flash just fine?
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| 14:15 | <PhoenixSTF> I personally hate them, professionally it is very time consuption
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| 14:16 | they are suppost to work on java programing, some text, some youtube and thats it
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| 14:16 | <dead_inside> i would say their flash experience would be the same if not better, depending on the servers you have
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| 14:16 | <PhoenixSTF> like I said, its for kids and university students
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| 14:17 | so we've got matlab stuff, Netbeans or Eclipse, code blocks, and some other stuff
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| 14:17 | will a thin client do it?
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| 14:18 | <dead_inside> depends on the servers you have
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| 14:18 | <Hyperbyte> PhoenixSTF, Netbeans over remote X is horrible.
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| 14:18 | But if you have P4 clients, why would you use thin clients and not fat?
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| 14:18 | <PhoenixSTF> we got Xeon and some Sparcs
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| 14:19 | Hyperbyte, can ltsp do fat?
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| 14:19 | <Hyperbyte> If they can run Windows XP they can certainly run Linux Gnome.
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| 14:19 | <dead_inside> ltsp is amazing at fat
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| 14:19 | <Hyperbyte> PhoenixSTF, sure. LTSP can even choose per-client to serve it fat or thin.
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| 14:19 | <dead_inside> "i can watch 7 flash videos and play two different flash games at the same time on our fat clients"
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| 14:19 | <PhoenixSTF> so I can have thin and fat at the same time?
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| 14:19 | <Hyperbyte> You could for example make your older clients thin, and your newer fat.
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| 14:19 | <dead_inside> yes you can PhoenixSTF
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| 14:20 | <PhoenixSTF> wow, fantastic
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| 14:20 | sorry for such nobish questions
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| 14:20 | <Hyperbyte> But my advice is: if you want java applications (such as Netbeans) and flash to run smoothly, without any problems... use fat cliens.
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| 14:20 | *clients
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| 14:20 | <PhoenixSTF> yes i was thinking about that 2
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| 14:21 | so I can have centralized homes, etc etc etc....
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| 14:22 | <Hyperbyte> Centralized everything.
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| 14:22 | LTSP is diskless.
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| 14:22 | <PhoenixSTF> do you have any tut that I can study in order to make it happen and show how much we can save
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| 14:22 | <Hyperbyte> Although you could use the local harddrives for swap if you wish.
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| 14:22 | <PhoenixSTF> Hyperbyte, intead of HDD i would use a cheap SD card
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| 14:23 | i think
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| 14:23 | how slow would it be with sd?
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| 14:23 | <Hyperbyte> PhoenixSTF, I can do you one better. Download Edubuntu 12.04 ISO and boot one of your servers (or any machine in general) with the LTSP live DVD
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| 14:23 | Then you can have a basic LTSP thin client setup, to test.
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| 14:24 | Or better yet, just install it and build a fat client. Then you can just try it out, see how it performs.
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| 14:24 | <PhoenixSTF> :)
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| 14:28 | <hace> I'm setting ltsp cluster now. some client login succesfully and the other is not.
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| 14:28 | after login and processing
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| 14:29 | it came back to login page again
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| 14:29 | <PhoenixSTF> Hyperbyte, any links i can study?
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| 14:30 | <hace> i'll attach my syslog
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| 14:30 | <PhoenixSTF> hace better to use pastebin
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| 14:31 | btw dead_inside and Hyperbyte, thanks for the info, I really apreciate it
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| 14:31 | :)
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| 14:34 | <hace> here it is http://pastebin.com/TCG2e9gW
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| 14:35 | <dead_inside> yea no problem, sorry i was afk
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| 14:41 | <Hyperbyte> PhoenixSTF, there's lots of documentation about LTSP. Have a look at the new LTSP wiki (http://server.ltsp.org/wiki)... it's in beta, but should contain useful for you.
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| 14:41 | PhoenixSTF, *information useful for you
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| 14:41 | <dead_inside> oh wow
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| 14:41 | i like that wiki
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| 14:41 | <hace> and this is syslog from client http://pastebin.com/uew8BdXk
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| 14:42 | <PhoenixSTF> Hyperbyte, ty, just one thing, LTSP-Cluster and LTSP are not the same thing right?
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| 14:43 | <dead_inside> and ltsp cluster is more then one ltsp server
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| 14:43 | but they are all still ltsp
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| 14:44 | <PhoenixSTF> ok so same project diferent aproach
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| 14:44 | <brunolambert> I guess LTSP-Cluster could be considered an add-on to LTSP
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| 14:44 | <PhoenixSTF> ah ok
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| 15:46 | <hace> I can login to xterm session but not to gnome
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| 16:42 | <hace> finally i can login using attr XSERVER = vesa
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