IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 March 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:53 | <alkisg> knipwim: if [ -d $chroot/var/db/pkg/net-misc/ltsp* ]; then ==> that's a syntax error on multiple matches
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| 05:38 | <knipwim> alkisg: it's true if one of them exists right?
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| 05:38 | it least, i didn't get a syntax error
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| 05:38 | <alkisg> knipwim: if [ -d /usr /sbin ]; then echo ok; fi
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| 05:38 | The -d operator doesn't support multiple directories
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| 05:39 | So you'll get a syntax error if that * ever matches more than 1 dir
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| 05:39 | <knipwim> check, but it never will
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| 05:39 | <alkisg> Can't the user create a directory there?
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| 05:39 | <knipwim> because always one of ldm, ltspfs or ltsp-client will be installed
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| 05:40 | but when checking for the specific version, i don't know the version yet
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| 05:40 | <knipwim> so, therefore the *
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| 05:41 | <alkisg> knipwim: I mean that a "find" or a "=" would be less prone to errors
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| 05:42 | E.g. $chroot/var/db/pkg/*/ldm* => if you have ldm and ldm-themes there, it'll break
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| 05:43 | But anyway, I was just saying that in case you haven't noticed it
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| 05:44 | <knipwim> you're probably right :)
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| 05:45 | i'll make it a new todo for the list
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| 05:45 | <alkisg> knipwim: you could do: for dir in $chroot/var/db/pkg/*/ldm*; if [ -f "$dir/PF" ]....
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| 05:47 | (no need for 3 loops, one is enough for all 3 dirs)
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| 08:30 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, that FlashVideoReplacer doesn't work me. Any chance I need to install some .flv codecs perhaps?
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: install gecko-mediaplayer, and try with an .flv video, not mp4
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| 08:32 | I think some other codec will take care of mp4 too
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| 08:32 | <Hyperbyte> I'm trying with YouTube, that's .flv right?
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| 08:32 | <alkisg> It has both, right click to see
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| 08:32 | <Hyperbyte> Ah.
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| 08:33 | <alkisg> (maybe gecko-mediaplayer takes care of those too, not sure)
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| 08:37 | <Hyperbyte> Interesting stuff :)
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| 09:13 | <slin> morning
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| 09:14 | alexqwesa: configmed, atm problems with skype 2.2, it simply ignores the pulseaudio. put back the 2.1.45beta, it works like a charm in the same environment
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| 09:15 | gr
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| 09:15 | fckin aticompletion :) was addressed to alkisg but left :)
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| 09:18 | <Hyperbyte> Skype. :(
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| 09:26 | <slin> might be some temporary issue
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| 09:26 | due it's not listing the pulseaudio hardware
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| 09:26 | but on my local desktop it does
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| 09:26 | so simply not recognize
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| 09:26 | while the one older version does
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| 09:27 | might work if i set skype to run as local app from the TC, but i do not want to do that
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| 09:27 | <Hyperbyte> slin, if I can be so frank, you're nuts for not wanting to do that.
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| 09:28 | Is your LTSP server also the internet gateway?
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| 09:35 | <Hyperbyte> You're creating a lot of unnecessary overhead and difficulty by not running it as a localapp
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| 09:35 | We use softphones here, I'm running them as local apps
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| 09:36 | They communicate directly with the Asterisk VoIP server here, rather than send high-quality audio streams to and from LTSP server, and have the LTSP server communicate with Asterisk.
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| 09:51 | <slin> Hyperbyte: hmm. interestring ;) the reason why i don't want that i have very large scale of thinclientts, from realy old vio c500 ones to dualcore intel atoms
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| 09:52 | and the 2.1.45? skype is working fine as runned from the LTSP server
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| 09:52 | the 2.2 is simply not recognizing the PA, however the system sounds and the mic input are fine
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| 09:53 | <Hyperbyte> slin, that argument is null and void.
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| 09:53 | Skype running as a local app asks much less of the thin client than two HQ pulseaudio stream.
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| 09:53 | *streams
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| 09:53 | (assuming Skype hasn't become too much bloatware recently...)
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| 09:54 | <slin> i am sure about the linux version not :DDD the 2.2 is ~20MB, the 2.1.45 is 16
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| 09:54 | <Hyperbyte> No - I mean the argument that your clients might be too old to run Skype as a local app :)
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| 09:55 | When I ran my softphones on the server, pulseaudio was hammering the CPU of the clients...
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| 09:56 | <slin> will check :) now ubuntu 9.4 in production with 5.2 ltsp afaik, once 11.10 server being tested, and preparing some tests for the 12.4 as well
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| 09:56 | <Hyperbyte> :)
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| 09:57 | I have a completely offtopic question
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| 09:57 | <slin> also i am very statisfied, Novell spent 6 months so make our system up and running since one of the LTS servers burnt [phisically]
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| 09:57 | without any luck
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| 09:58 | <Hyperbyte> Is it normal for IT managers to have a clause in their contract which states that should the contract end for whatever reason, and the system fails completely in the near future after that, they have to pay a huge (50.000 euros) fine to the organisation?
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| 09:58 | <slin> serious lockups on every monday, tuesday [12-15 a day] then nothing since next monday ;P
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| 09:59 | Hyperbyte: sounds logical, so it pervents you from making wrong decisions :) and damaging after contrack ends / got fired
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| 09:59 | <Hyperbyte> slin, yes, but - let's say someone hacks in
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| 09:59 | Right after I get fired
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| 10:00 | <slin> in this case u have the logs about the hack
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| 10:00 | <Hyperbyte> No, because I wouldn't work for the organisation.
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| 10:00 | <slin> but the ou will have
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| 10:00 | also its a human failure to not revoking existing rights from the fired / contract terminated ppl
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| 10:01 | with changing passwords at the same time
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| 10:01 | but this is simply logic, in this case mine, not the law
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| 10:01 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, but it wouldn't be the fault of the IT manager
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| 10:01 | It'd be the fault of the organisation
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| 10:02 | <Hyperbyte> Simple case - IT manager has in contract that if system fails in near future after he gets fired, he has to pay 50.000 euros (about 100.000 dollars)000
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| 10:02 | IT manager gets fired, system gets hacked or just shorts out or whatever horrible thing that could happen
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| 10:02 | What then?
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| 10:03 | I'm wondering if it's normal to have a clause like that in your contract.
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| 10:03 | <slin> have to check the environment :) the contract has a point, prevets the IT to damage
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| 10:03 | hm. seems i need to exchange kbd, missing letters
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| 10:04 | but leaving the passwords/rights unchanged once IT person left, is a human error
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| 10:04 | what can point back to the [remaining] part of the IT
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| 10:05 | if no more IT, then to the fired/expired one, due migh be that its credientals got used
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| 10:05 | <Hyperbyte> Still, having a clause in your contract that you have to pay an amount which basically bankrupts you, if system fails -after- you're gone.... I don't know....
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| 10:06 | <slin> in my case, all entry point is firewalled, ssh from outside is public key only
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| 10:06 | <Hyperbyte> slin, that's not the point.
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| 10:06 | You're missing the point. Go exchange your keyboard! ;-)
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| 10:06 | <slin> :DD
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| 10:06 | <Hyperbyte> :D
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| 10:07 | <slin> hack in means it did not worked properly in my terms
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| 10:07 | <Hyperbyte> So what if the new guy breaks the entire system and blames me?
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| 10:08 | <slin> then the new guy has the shit. due his job to REVOKE your access, so you are unable to log in and due shit
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| 10:08 | s/due/do/2
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| 10:10 | but in this case, if u have this signed, u have the chance to suck
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| 10:10 | if everything is points to you about it was damaged by your key/credientals
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| 10:16 | <Hyperbyte> mhm.
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| 10:16 | I'd like hear if anyone else has this clause in their contract.
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| 10:24 | <andygraybeal> mooornrinigning
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| 10:27 | <Hyperbyte> Hey Andy!
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| 10:46 | <muppis> Booornrinigning..
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| 11:00 | <Hyperbyte> Oh, hi Ben!
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| 11:15 | <andygraybeal> hi Hyperbyte :))
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| 11:16 | <Hyperbyte> Heya
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| 13:15 | <Hyperbyte> !upstream-bug
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| 13:15 | <ltsp> Hyperbyte: upstream-bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+filebug
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| 14:15 | <stgraber> I'm really surprised we didn't get any report of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/948507 earlier :)
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| 14:15 | the bug was pretty obvious looking at the code and was likely there since the ldm rewrite
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> !win32-loader
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| 14:25 | <ltsp> alkisg: win32-loader: win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader - (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> !forget win32-loader
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| 14:25 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> !learn win32-loader win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/tools/win32-loader/unstable/ (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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| 14:25 | <ltsp> alkisg: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> !learn win32-loader as win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/tools/win32-loader/unstable/ (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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| 14:25 | <ltsp> alkisg: The operation succeeded.
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> !win32-loader
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| 14:26 | <ltsp> alkisg: win32-loader: win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/tools/win32-loader/unstable/ (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> It finally hit the Debian archives :)
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| 14:36 | <Hyperbyte> stgraber, I guess not many people use @ in their passwords. :)
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| 14:39 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I also pushed a fix for LP: #948507 in ldm-trunk
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> stgraber: if I implement optionally storing the localapps/fat user password hashes to /etc/shadow, will it make it for precise? Or should I leave it for later?
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| 14:52 | (ldm)
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| 14:52 | So that they can lock/unlock their screens etc
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| 14:52 | <stgraber> alkisg: how would you do that securely?
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| 14:53 | <alkisg> stgraber: when ldm gets the password and is successfully authenticated, it can e.g. calculate the hash itself or pipe it to some process stdin
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| 14:54 | Of course it won't be anywhere in `ps`, at anytime
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| 14:54 | After the hash is saved, the password won't longer be remembered by any process
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| 14:55 | <stgraber> right, having ldm do the hashing should be fine, just make sure no user can ever see the hash, otherwise it'd be a regression from what we have on a regular system
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> And shadow is regenerated each time I believe, so only the current user hash would be there
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| 14:55 | I'd like to do it next week, to give it some more thought, is it OK schedule-wise?
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| 14:56 | <stgraber> (most distros prevent everyone but root from seeing /etc/shadow as just having access to the hash makes cracking the password much easier)
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> Indeed, and it would also be optional, from an lts.conf directive, and probably not enabled by default
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| 14:57 | <stgraber> it should be fine, I'll probably give a go/no-go based on how many changes the implementation requires and if there are any that I consider risky
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> Cool, thanks. I'd also like to make some remote apps launchers from init-ltsp.d when fats+remoteapps are enabled, so that e.g. the gnome dialog for password changing is launched from the server, not locally
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| 15:19 | <stgraber> alkisg: you probably could alter PATH to have some overrides there running ltsp-remoteapps triggering that stuff on the server
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| 15:20 | until we have Scotty's magic nss/pam plugins doing that for us
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> stgraber: if ltsp_remoteapps; mv gnome-control-center gnome-control-center.real; echo "new code that uses ltsp-remoteapps" > gnome-control-center etc etc
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| 15:20 | So that it works even for hardcoded launchers
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| 15:21 | <stgraber> alkisg: a bit hackish but yeah, will work for now ;)
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> Unfortunately the password changing utility got embedded in gnome-control-center though, I don't know if it'll be as easy as it was previously with gnome-about-me... :(
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| 15:22 | <stgraber> alkisg: I'm still hoping that one day fatclient will be an ldm option and that you can have one ldm session running as fat client and another on vt8 running as a thin client session
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| 15:22 | though that trick should still work even then
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> stgraber: we can easily tell ldm to look at both the local ldminfo and the server's ldminfod, and list all the sessions
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| 15:22 | Session: Ubuntu (server)
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| 15:22 | Session: Ubuntu (local)
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| 15:23 | etc
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| 15:23 | So he can select it from the session management dialog
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| 15:23 | *session selection dialog
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| 15:23 | <stgraber> that'd be kind of neat indeed
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> That could even be done on startup, and have all the sessions stored in /usr/share/xsessions etc, so that other display managers like lightdm see them too
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| 15:28 | Of course the Exec line for remote sessions would be "ltsp-remote-session-launcher server session" or something
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| 17:51 | <stgraber> alkisg: yep, ltsp-remote-session-launcher sounds good so we can make other DMs working with LTSP, all of that will be post-12.04 obviously but that's cool stuff that we should indeed get working
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| 17:53 | <alkisg> stgraber: I hope at the next BTS you guys can convince Scotty to finish the pam stuff, so that we can then start supporting any pam-capable DM. If things go good, we could even possibly obsolete LDM.
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| 17:54 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, we still need to define a clear plan on how to support xfreerdp/citrix/x2go/... in all display managers, but it should be possible with some scripts and custom session scripts
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| 21:29 | <stgraber> mgariepy, highvoltage: new kernel uploaded with the LVDS fixes
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| 22:46 | <highvoltage> stgraber: I'm still kind of changing stuff but perhaps you could look at http://edubuntu.org/2012-03-29/edubuntu-beta2-released and give some feedback so long?
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