IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 March 2013 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:46 | <ajith> some of thin clients are unable to boot as in our offices we are having branches located in different..
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| 05:46 | prroviously they used to boot ..but now they are stopping at Ubuntu logo
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| 05:46 | no network issues everything is fine
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| 05:47 | any idea??
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| 06:52 | <ajith> discover failed...no lease found
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| 06:52 | in ltsp ubutnu
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| 08:20 | what does that mean
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| 08:26 | <Hyperbyte> ajith, dhcp problem?
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| 08:27 | <ajith> dhcp problem ..hey my system are able to boot
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| 08:28 | some of them..but others cant
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| 08:38 | getaddrinfo:name or service not known
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| 08:41 | <Hyperbyte> What happens if you swap their network connections?
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| 08:42 | (I'm just guessing here)
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| 08:47 | <ajith> getaddrinfo:name or service not known
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| 08:47 | what does this mean Mr.Hyper
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| 08:49 | <Hyperbyte> It means it tried to do a lookup on some address, but that name or service isn't known by the system
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| 08:49 | I have no idea how that relates to LTSP though, Iá'm not an LTSP developer. Like I said, it might be DHCP related.
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| 08:50 | It might also help if you could put the error message into context. For example, publish a complete log of all the things that appear on screen, so we can see -where- exactly that error appears.
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| 09:50 | <ajith> okay the log dont have any error
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| 09:59 | what is getaddr info:name or service not known
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| 10:40 | <Enslaver> Hmm having an issue with my fat clients, I can log into them fine but when my screen locks it won't take password, no entry for my user in shadow but there is in passwd
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| 10:41 | <alkisg> Enslaver: I had asked for ldm to store the hash of the password in shadow; the other devs didn't like it due to security reasons
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| 10:41 | Let's see if libpam_sshauth has an option to support that in the future
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| 10:41 | So for now we just disable screen locking
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| 10:42 | <Enslaver> :(
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| 10:42 | I guess there's good and bad about that
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| 13:27 | <markit> alkisg: the friend of mine has still the same problem with the new class, we have reinstalled everything from scratch. I've noticed in teh home a strange directory. "d????????? ? ? ? ? ? .gvfs" does it trigger somethign on your mind?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> markit: which problem?
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| 15:21 | The gvfs issue you see is there if you're using another account (like root) for `ls`
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| 15:21 | <markit> alkisg: Failed to load session ‘gnome-fallback’
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| 15:21 | yes, I was root
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> OK, it's normal then
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| 15:21 | And is gnome-fallback installed?
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| 15:21 | <markit> today I've re- ls that homedir and the .gvfs is ok now
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| 15:21 | yes, should be there, let me re-check
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| 15:22 | ii gnome-session-fallback 3.2.1-0ubuntu8 GNOME Session Manager - GNOME fallback session
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| 15:22 | <alkisg> Fat clients? Is that in the chroot?
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| 15:22 | <markit> yes, fat and chroot
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| 15:23 | I've to run now, I'll be back soon
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> OK, bb
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| 15:44 | <markit> alkisg: back
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| 15:44 | unfortunately on the other side I've a tecnician that don't know GNU/Linux very well and often does random tests and configuration changes :(
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> markit: it used to work and then it broke?
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| 15:45 | <markit> no, new install, some hardware works that one not (that one is the one of most of the lab)
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| 15:45 | I've the suspect was running as thin client also
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| 15:45 | because there is threshold of 900MB
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| 15:46 | and those clients have 1GB ony
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| 15:46 | in any case, tomorrow I'll contact him again and hope to be able to do experiments a step at time
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> NFS or SSHFS?
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| 15:46 | <markit> sshfs
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Is it "some hardware" that doesn't work, or is it "the same user, on second login" that doesn't work?
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> And is the message "cannot load gnome fallback session", or "cannot load fallback graphics mode"?
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| 15:47 | <markit> the "cheap" hardware does not work whatever user (autologin configured) you use
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| 15:47 | the strange thing is that today first attempt worked
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| 15:47 | second failed
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Second fails because of the sshfs issues
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| 15:48 | <markit> and so all the subsequent tryies, even with new account
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Ah btw, are you using the greek schools ppa on that installation?
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| 15:49 | <markit> even with LDM_LIMIT_ONE_SESSION=True ?
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| 15:49 | yep, greek schools ppa as usual
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| 15:50 | would be wonderful have a bash script that tests all the ltsp functionality, I've done one just to check about listening ports
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> There's ltsp-info
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| 15:50 | ldm_limit... isn't related to sshfs issues
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| 15:51 | ltsp - 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1 published 1st of March
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| 15:51 | Do you think you have that in the chroot?
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| 15:51 | (from the greek ppa)
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| 15:51 | <markit> alkisg: http://www.pastebin.ca/2345594
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| 15:52 | ii ltsp-client 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1
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| 15:52 | I've not "ltsp" package installed
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> Yes, ltsp client
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| 15:52 | In the pastebin, why does it say not installed for ltsp-client?
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| 15:53 | Also, are you using ltsp-pnp?
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| 15:53 | <markit> no, stock ltsp
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| 15:53 | "not installed for ltsp-client?" what?
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> root@serverme:/home/fat01# LANG=C ltsp-info ==> so you ran that on an ltsp thin client?
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| 15:53 | un ltsp-client <none>
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| 15:53 | <markit> un ltsp-client <none>
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: so, with libpam-sshauth ... how are we going to support multiple servers?
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> packages in chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 15:54 | <markit> mmm the chroot installation is done automatically
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| 15:54 | <markit> dubt that the other package installed have pushed out ltsp-client
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| 15:55 | but could be...
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> (05:52:20 μμ) markit: ii ltsp-client 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1 ==> what command did you run to get that?
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| 15:56 | <markit> in the Server (not chroot) I run: root@serverme:/# dpkg -l | grep ltsp
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| 15:56 | mmmmaybe I was in chroot
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| 15:57 | hold on
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| 15:57 | EVERYTHING WRONG, was in chroot
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| 15:57 | even with ltsp-info probably
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| 15:57 | <markit> no, root@serverme:/home/fat01# ltsp-info
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| 15:58 | <markit> says packages in chroot: /opt/ltsp/i386 un ltsp-client <none>
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| 15:58 | if I chroot
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| 15:58 | dpkg -l | grep ltsp
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> Just run ltsp-info outside the chroot
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| 15:58 | <markit> ii ltsp-client 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1 complete LTSP client environment
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> sudo ltsp-info
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| 15:59 | <markit> http://pastebin.ca/2345599
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| 15:59 | that's outside chroot for sure
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| 16:00 | also because in chroot there is NO ltsp-info
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| 16:00 | so seems that ltsp-info is bogus
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Yeah...
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| 16:01 | <markit> btw, would be great if ltsp-chroot would change the prompt with somethign useful
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| 16:01 | like "I'm in chroot, stupid" #
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| 16:01 | ;P
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> You could file a bug report in "chroot" if you want...
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> ltsp-info is producing invalid informmation?
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> It's not ltsp specific
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| 16:02 | vagrantc: seems like it...
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| 16:02 | <markit> alkisg: nothing the script could do once chrooted? I mean, chroot + change the prompt
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> Sure it could
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> works for me just fine... hard to imagine how it could fails
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| 16:03 | <markit> since we work in chroot just for some brief settings
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> And you can also configure it manually if you want
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| 16:03 | <markit> vagrantc: don't know if relevant, I have server at 64 bit, chroot at 32, and using greek ppa for ltsp
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> But changing the prompt doesn't sound like a task for ltsp-chroot, but a generic setting for any chroot...
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| 16:03 | <vagrantc> markit: should work fine...
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| 16:04 | <markit> alkisg: I understand your point, but I think that the goal of chroot is have you belive you are in a regular root
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> the pastebin.ca urls didn't work for me, btw
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| 16:04 | <markit> a sort of "jahil"
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| 16:04 | while in ltsp is not the case
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> Why not?
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| 16:04 | Where's the difference from "generic chroots" vs "ltsp chroots"?
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| 16:04 | <markit> alkisg: because I'm not a user put there ignoring it
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i believe there is support in debian and derivatives to display something in the prompt if an environment variable is set, explicitly for these sorts of chroot environments
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yes, I think we have a bug report for that in launchpad
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| 16:05 | <ogra_> yeah, in bashrc or so
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> Something starting with debian*
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| 16:05 | markit: I didn't understand your last sentence...
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| 16:06 | <markit> alkisg: I mean, chroot is good to make you belive you are in a real root, not in chroot. Is a security way of running some things AFAIU, so is important to mimic the real root
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| 16:06 | in ltsp we have chroot only "by accident", (in fact ltsp-pnp avoids it)
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| 16:07 | and when I'm in chroot I do want to know
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> markit: I don't think that's the case; chroots are installations inside some directory, whether for ltsp or for any other case
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| 16:07 | <markit> I've had a lot of issues because I thought I was in the server while I was in chroot
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| 16:07 | alkisg: can't you agree that not having a informative prompts in ltsp is only damage and no gain?
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| 16:07 | <alkisg> So while I agree with you, and I would like a different prompt in ltsp chroots, I'd also like different prompts in other chroots as well
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| 16:08 | markit, vagrantc, ogra_: http://www.mail-archive.com/ltsp-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net/msg40889.html
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| 16:08 | <markit> alkisg: isn't chroot usually used to "trick" users and services about not being in chroot but in a regular system?
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> +eval LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false debian_chroot="remaster" chroot "$ROOT" $COMMAND
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| 16:09 | markit: I don't think that's the main use of chroots, no
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| 16:09 | E.g. suppose I create a chroot in order to compile it to ubuntu.iso later on
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| 16:09 | I'd want to know I'm in a chroot there too
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| 16:09 | <ogra_> chroots can be used like that though
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| 16:10 | <markit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroot
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| 16:10 | <ogra_> my very first encounter of the chroot command was at an ISP where we jailed their ftp access liek that
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> ogra_: so you used `chroot ftp`?
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| 16:10 | I don't think so... you ftp'ed to a chroot
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| 16:10 | <vagrantc> chroots can be used for lots of different things.
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> So in that case, the chroot command wouldn't run, and you wouldn't get a prompt
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| 16:10 | <markit> seems you are right
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| 16:10 | <ogra_> we used a special /etc/passwd setup and copied /lib/libc.so and /bin/bash in place ...
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| 16:11 | <markit> in any case, I've more hopes that ltsp people will implement it soon than hope to convince the whole GNU/Linux community
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| 16:11 | * vagrantc notes that plain ol chroot is a fairly ineffective security measure these days | |
| 16:11 | <ogra_> on login you were inside /home/$USER/public_html which turned into /
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| 16:12 | yeah, you wouldnt do it like that anymore
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> ogra_: so you didn't use the chroot command yourself, so you wouldn't get a prompt
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| 16:12 | * vagrantc plans to carry a patch for ltsp-chroot to set something in the debian_chroot var in the future. | |
| 16:12 | <alkisg> Why a patch, and not send that upstream?
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| 16:12 | <ogra_> alkisg, the login command used the chroot command as login shell
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> ogra_: right, but you didn't use it. As part of the automation there, they could have set any prompt they liked
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| 16:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if i can figure out how to do it just for debian derivatives, sure.
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| 16:13 | * ogra_ cant remember the exact setup anymore, thats nearly 20 years ago :) | |
| 16:13 | <vagrantc> alkisg: without it getting uglified in the code
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> vagrantc: just a distro overridable function
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| 16:13 | We have pre_chroot, post_chroot...
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but with the eval, i think it's tricky to set
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> We just need to override the chroot call into an "actual_chroot()" function, and you can then override that in debian
| |
| 16:14 | I don't see any eval's there
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| 16:14 | LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false chroot "$ROOT" "$@"
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> eval LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false debian_chroot="remaster" chroot "$ROOT" $COMMAND ??
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| 16:14 | <alkisg> That would just be written as `do_chroot "$@"`
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| 16:14 | vagrantc: that was from the old code
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| 16:14 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> I've removed the eval some time ago...
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> at any rate, i'd like to support that someday
| |
| 16:15 | somehow, someway
| |
| 16:15 | * alkisg doesn't care at all about chroots anymore so he's happy with any prompt :) | |
| 16:17 | <ogra_> pfft ... think of your users :)
| |
| 16:17 | <markit> mm if I chroot, # COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=$chroot -l 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' | awk '/ltsp-client|ldm|ltspfs/{print $1,$2,$3}'
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| 16:17 | says ii ltsp-client 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1
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| 16:17 | while if I run ltsp-info does not
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| 16:18 | (but should run that code)
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| 16:18 | so a) is unable to chroot, b) is running something different
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> it doesn't run it using chroot
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| 16:18 | it just tells dpkg to look at the files in the chroot
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| 16:19 | that way it doesn't require root access
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| 16:19 | <markit> ah, I see (reading more carefully the code, yeah)
| |
| 16:20 | in fatct # COLUMNS=200 dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' | awk '/ltsp-client|ldm|ltspfs/{print $1,$2,$3}'
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| 16:20 | does not have the same output
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| 16:21 | FOUND
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| 16:21 | vagrantc:
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| 16:21 | # dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l | grep ltsp
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| 16:21 | ii ltsp-client:i386 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1 complete LTSP client environment
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| 16:22 | probably that :i386 confuses awk
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| 16:22 | that is looking for just "ltsp-client"
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc> don't see how it would
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| 16:23 | that is looking for any line that includes the text "ltsp-client"
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| 16:23 | <markit> mmm yep
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> it coulld say foobarbazltsp-clientsowhateveryouwant
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| 16:23 | and it would print it
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| 16:24 | <markit> BUT
| |
| 16:24 | * vagrantc wonders if apparmor or something is interfering | |
| 16:25 | <vagrantc> at any rate, have to head out
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| 16:25 | <ogra_> shouldnt
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| 16:25 | <vagrantc> very curious what the issue is
| |
| 16:25 | <markit> vagrantc: http://pastebin.ca/2345625
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| 16:26 | is the ... -l 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' part the reason
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| 16:26 | <vagrantc> markit: for some reason pstebin.ca isn't working for me.
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| 16:26 | <markit> vagrantc: ok, in short
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| 16:26 | dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l | grep ltsp
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| 16:26 | ii ltsp-client:i386 5.4.3-1+r2462+p1163~precise1 complete LTSP client environment
| |
| 16:26 | WHILE
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| 16:27 | dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' | grep ltsp
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| 16:27 | un ltsp-client <none> (no description available)
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> that's odd.
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| 16:28 | bug in dpkg?
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| 16:29 | <markit> I've no idea, I'm a dumb newbie (and always be) ;P
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> markit: try: cd / ; dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' | grep ltsp
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| 16:31 | <markit> vagrantc: the same un ltsp-client <nessuna> (nessuna descrizione disponibile)
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> i can only guess it's a bug in dpkg's handling of --root + -l with wildcards
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| 16:32 | markit: at any rate, congradulate yourself, you figured out a weird issue! :)
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| 16:32 | <ogra_> probably introduced with multiarch
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> works fine on wheezy.
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| 16:33 | markit: dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l ltsp-client
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| 16:33 | ?
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| 16:33 | <markit> un ltsp-client
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> ok, not specific with wildcards
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| 16:33 | <markit> dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l ltsp-client:386
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| 16:33 | ii ltsp-client:i386
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> ogra_ ftw!
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| 16:33 | <ogra_> :)
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> markit: and your initial hunch was in the right direction for that
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| 16:34 | * vagrantc disappears | |
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| 16:35 | <markit> ehm, will you file a bug?
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| 16:35 | <ogra_> you should ... with your findings ... since you can reproduce it if someone asks
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| 16:36 | <markit> ogra_: against ubuntu then?
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| 16:36 | <ogra_> if you are on ubuntu, then yes
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| 16:36 | else in debian indeed
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| 16:39 | <markit> ogra_: I've no idea if sqeeze has it and weezy (as vagrantc says) no
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| 16:39 | I put in the list of "things to do
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| 16:39 | "
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| 16:40 | alkisg: in the meantime, in ltsp-info code just removing the 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' solves the issue
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| 16:40 | just adding a little overhead
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> markit: we're not using chroots at all here, so I can't even test
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| 16:42 | On a test wheezy chroot that I have, wildcards appear to work
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| 16:42 | Although it's same arch, i386
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| 16:42 | <markit> alkisg: is ltsp-pnp the future of ltsp, or a "additional way of set things up"?
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| 16:42 | <alkisg> An additional way
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| 16:43 | But each ltsp developer tests what he's interested in
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| 16:43 | E.g. I couldn't test the fedora bits, I've never even used fedora
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| 16:44 | <markit> alkisg: the 'ltsp*' 'ldm*' is just to make dpkg produce a reduced set of packages that are filtered by awk
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| 16:44 | without that part, just awk has to do more work, but the result is the same
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| 16:44 | <alkisg> Sure. And fixing that in dpkg is much saner than working around it in ltsp.
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| 16:44 | In any case, I can't even test, so I'm not the correct person to talk about this...
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| 16:44 | <markit> alkisg: but you could wait ages before that, like the chroot prompt stuff
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| 16:44 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 16:45 | File an SRU when it's ready, or use a PPA
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| 16:45 | It's not like you'll get an LTSP SRU for that either
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| 16:45 | <markit> alkisg: my feeling that, for chroot prompt, you have to convince 100 thousand peoples, all with some corner test, and discussion will last forever
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| 16:45 | in ltsp we have no corner cases, would be just great
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> For the prompt, ok, but not for bugs
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| 16:46 | It should be very easy to convince people to fix bugs :)
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| 16:46 | <markit> lol, really
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| 16:46 | but "works as designed" is often used for bugs too
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| 16:46 | <ogra_> and discussions usually dont last more than 7.5 years in ltsp land ... forever is an exxageration :P
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> I don't think this is the case for the dpkg bug you mentioned
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| 16:46 | <markit> I remember a bad openoffice localization for numeric keyboard and decimal separator
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| 16:46 | alkisg: ok, I trust your opinion more than mine :)
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| 16:47 | I'll try
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| 16:47 | <alkisg> First thing is to search for an existing bug report
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| 16:47 | If it's fixed, and you want to, you can try backporting the fix to 12.04, with an "SRU"
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| 16:48 | <ogra_> 12.04's multiarch definitely has its weaknesses ...
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| 16:49 | i think there were only some basic bits backported from the newer dpkg, not everything since that would have been to intrusive
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| 20:12 | <warren> way too busy. /msg me if needed.
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