IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 8 April 2017 (all times are UTC)
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| 08:35 | <quinox> lol
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| 09:07 | not too important anymore, but all barcode scanners I've touched so far are simply HIDs (keyboard)
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| 09:08 | which I *really* like
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| 09:09 | the only theoretical problem I have with them that they are all configurable through barcodes
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| 09:10 | so you usually get a nice manual with the device that allows you to put it into configuration mode with 1 barcode, then change settings with another barcode
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| 09:10 | settings like "type" speed, newline/tab/nothing after scanning a barcode etc. etc.
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| 09:10 | I wish they had a hardware button to put them into configuration mode
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| 09:12 | because right now if you accept random barcodes (which is quite often) someone could mess the device up on purpose
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| 09:15 | if you change the post-barcode symbol (newline<-->tab<-->nothing) with this attack it cannot be used anymore by the operator until someone technical drops by to debug and fix it
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| 10:38 | <rkwesk> Νομίζει κανείς ότι αξίζει να πούμε στο φόρουμ ότι 28-04-17 είναι η τελευταία μέρα για τις ενημερώσεις;
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| 10:39 | <alkisg> rkwesk: this is the english channel, type /join #ts.sch.gr to come to the greek channel
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| 10:39 | Nah we already mentioned it there
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| 10:40 | I wish that apt-get update won't cause an issue though; that it'll just say "no updates available"
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| 10:40 | <rkwesk> as we are here can I ask about who this git from ellak thinks he is to use the term guru in such a negative way?
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| 10:41 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 10:41 | We've spoken with him on the phone, I think he actually meant it in a positive way
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| 10:41 | <rkwesk> he must be green with envy
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| 10:43 | I know Greek is very much a second language for me but the tone suggested he was upset with the guru
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| 10:44 | <alkisg> Nah, at least that's not what he expressed on the phone
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| 10:44 | Anyways, that's for the forum
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| 10:44 | * alkisg needs to go for a while, bbiab! | |
| 10:45 | <rkwesk> Anyway, I would like to use the info you and Yianni gave about the project when writing up the proposal
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| 10:55 | On another note, I think it a shame that a gui front end like sch-scripts is complicated to adapt to other desktop environs and other distros
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| 10:58 | It is such an elegant solution for the average person who is put in the position of being the admin of an ltsp setup
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| 11:03 | Though some power users have said to me that ltsp is not the panacea for all IT setups, it certainly seems to me to be a no-brainer for schools.
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| 11:04 | Yet there are so many schools running without it.
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| 11:06 | I once had visited a school that was using an app for windows that resembled epoptes - Nettool or something like that
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| 11:06 | <alkisg> rwmarch: sch-scripts isn't compicated to port elsewhere; there's just noone to do so
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| 11:07 | If we had licenses for netop or netsupport or nettool etc, we wouldn't have developed epoptes
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| 11:08 | <rkwesk> Either a pirate version is used or an expensive licence are their only options
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| 11:08 | <alkisg> Usually pirate, yes
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| 11:09 | <rkwesk> I wonder what China or Russia are using as they have so much more Linux
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| 11:12 | One fellow who works in the nasa-like org in Siberia told me they have several super apps for Linux but for their use only - no upstreaming there!
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| 11:13 | They don't even update online. A usb stick is handed to them for updates and is then taken back.
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| 11:14 | There have to be so many users and useful experience these countries could contribute.
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| 11:18 | Why aren't more schools in (let's say) southern and eastern Europe using ltsp? Has there been a minister in each place with an agreement from Microsoft?
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| 11:20 | Is there anyone here listening who can give some insight to this?
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| 11:25 | Back to sch-scripts - if it is not complicated to port can we give the job to some up and coming student?
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| 11:38 | <alkisg> (02:25:57 μμ) rkwesk: Back to sch-scripts - if it is not complicated to port can we give the job to some up and coming student? => we need persons that will work on sch-scripts as a steady job and not someone to do something and then leave
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| 11:39 | For example, someone ported the greek education repository to fedora, and then he left; it's been unmaintained since then
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| 11:43 | <rkwesk> so the only way forward then is this proposal so a steady crew gets on with htings
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| 11:56 | <alkisg> rkwesk: do you know of anyone that needs sch-scripts in another desktop environment or distro?
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| 11:59 | <rkwesk> No but I just think they don't know what they are missing
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| 12:00 | so many teachers stay far away from the commandline
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| 12:03 | Do you not think it a great asset to those "others"?
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| 12:40 | <alkisg> I don't really care about multiple desktops or distros, I think everyone should concentrate on the same ones :D
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| 12:40 | Especially in the schools case, where resources are limited
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| 12:45 | <rkwesk> This is true for our country but not so for the rest.
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| 12:46 | Don't you think Vagrant would be pleased to have a port?
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| 12:49 | Part of the upstreaming thing is that your work gets better known. (Think proposal!)
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| 13:01 | <alkisg> I would have to maintain sch-scripts in 2 languages then, add translations infrastructure etc
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| 13:01 | More overhead with uncertain benefits
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| 13:02 | If there's sponsoring for that, it'll be worth it; but I don't think we'll do it just for "better known work"...
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| 13:02 | E.g. epoptes is already known worldwide; that didn't help much with its maintenance
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| 13:03 | Pretty much the same for ltsp...
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| 13:13 | <rkwesk> Sure. I certainly wasn't suggesting that you personally take this on. btw, just being able to say to would be sponsors that this project is known and used in so many places makes a big difference to them.
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| 13:14 | Never underestimate the pride that Greeks in the diaspora have for that sort of thing.
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| 13:26 | Are you saying that ltsp is known world wide? I wonder just how much. Is it naive to think that if school systems only knew of it they would come running?
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| 13:28 | One of the biggest frustrations I personally feel, and thhis has been true for years, is how little notice is taken of the existence of Linux world wide.
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| 13:29 | <alkisg> rkwesk: linux use is 1%, while in greek schools it's maybe 20%, and in my region it's 90%
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| 13:29 | You can't expect some software to be extremely popular when it only targets linux
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| 13:30 | But ltsp and epoptes surely have thousands of users; yet no sponsors
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| 13:30 | This is because people usually use open source software because it's free; not because they like the idea and want to sponsor it...
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| 13:31 | The key there is for interested parties, like governments or ministries or companies, to have paid developers to work on open source
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| 13:31 | <rkwesk> Sure this is always going to be true with human beings
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| 13:31 | <alkisg> That's not the deal currently with ltsp/epoptes/sch-scripts
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| 13:33 | <rkwesk> I can only think that so much more people becoming aware is the only way to pick up the few more who might actually want to help'
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| 13:33 | <alkisg> No, I don't think that helps
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| 13:33 | Only by finding companies or government parties or eu-funded projects etc that have an interest in the project
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| 13:34 | E.g. a company that would sell ltsp to schools would make sense. Or some ministry of education.
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| 13:34 | Or the computer technology institute, as part of some eu-project
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| 13:36 | <rkwesk> and yet you don't consider that by raising the bar and making so many more people aware would lead to such acts?
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| 13:42 | A developer is like a gold nugget. One needs to do a lot of panning to pick up such a nugget
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> No. For example, hundends of teachers ask the ministry to support ubuntu/ltsp, but you-know-how has his own agenta; that's enough for it to stagnate
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| 13:44 | Having many people know your product is basically good only if you directly benefit from more users. I.e. if you sell it or put ads in it.
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| 13:45 | <rkwesk> That is one way. I am thinking more long term.
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| 13:46 | <alkisg> Well, most ltsp/epoptes/sch-scripts developers are already gone; I don't know of how much it can sustain a long term design
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| 13:46 | <rkwesk> btw the overlap of ministers and would be developers/sponsers is particularly thin. :))
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| 13:48 | new blood is usually a good way to go. That's why "young up and coming students"
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| 13:50 | Let me pick up on your mentioning that 90% of people in your region use Linux.
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| 13:50 | <alkisg> No; I've tried that too many times. They usually stay long enough for you to teach them things, and then they leave in order to find something that pays
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> Essentially they only "steal" the time that you would put in the product
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| 13:51 | <rkwesk> I assume your good looks have something to do with that.
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> Haha
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| 13:52 | Maybe it's more the part that I'm in charge of the office that supports school computer labs :D
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| 13:53 | <rkwesk> I'm much less appealing in my 70's and yet I have managed to get many people around me using Linux because I was there to install it.
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| 13:53 | <alkisg> OK, but keep in mind that there's an official support infrastructure that schools know and trust; and unfortunately you're not part of that
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| 13:53 | <rkwesk> Microsoft only gets all those others because it is already installed.
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| 13:54 | <alkisg> If you want to convince them to switch to open source, send one guy from the tax office, for audit :P
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| 13:55 | They'll immediately panic and you'll see 99% switch to open source
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| 13:55 | <rkwesk> Yes, that might work
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| 13:55 | <alkisg> Personally I don't care much about the open source philosophy
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| 13:55 | It would be the same for me if ministries from all over the world cooperated in a closed-source solution for schools
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| 13:56 | <rkwesk> I'm getting that
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| 13:56 | <alkisg> I just don't want to be illegal and use pirated software
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| 13:56 | <rkwesk> That's fine
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| 13:56 | We are an odd bunch of all sorts
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| 13:58 | responsible teachers and admins wouldn't like it either and would take the Linux road if they knew
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| 13:59 | this brings me back to my point about raising awareness
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| 13:59 | all sorts would get interested for all sorts of reasons
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| 14:00 | <alkisg> I think that's the same goal as the current greek ministry has; raising awareness
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| 14:00 | They send mails and newsletters and organize webinars and everything to attract people to open source
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| 14:00 | <rkwesk> don't you mean raising awareness of their own image?
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| 14:01 | <alkisg> In the mean time, they destroy open source because they don't understand that it's made by developers that need to get paid
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| 14:01 | Even if they want to raise their own image too, they still advertise open source as well
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| 14:03 | Anyways, I don't think all this chat belongs here in #ltsp
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| 14:04 | I don't want to get involved in attracting more users anyway
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| 14:04 | <rkwesk> agreed but there doesn't seem to be much other chatter
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| 14:04 | <alkisg> I'm focused in supporting my schools, and I leave the publicity to Yannis etc
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| 14:07 | <rkwesk> okay, this is me signing off - thank you for your time.
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Bye rkwesk! Nice talking with you!
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| 14:09 | <rkwesk> it was my pleasure
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