IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 February 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:13 | <daduke> vagrantc: are you here?
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| 00:45 | <vagrantc> daduke: barely
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| 00:52 | <daduke> vagrantc: all right, I'll try another day. cheers!
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| 01:41 | <SteveWrightNZ> fixed
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| 01:41 | ish
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| 01:42 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/149006
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| 02:06 | <alomelo> Hi
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| 02:07 | If aybody here I would have a question
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| 02:07 | I have installed LTSP on my Kubuntu 7.10
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| 02:08 | now I use some machines to connect to server with etherbooting
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| 02:08 | with some machines I connect perfectly with no problems
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| 02:09 | but 2 of the machines became idle
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| 02:09 | let me try to explain
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| 02:09 | they start to download the boot image from server
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| 02:10 | <vagrantc> what version of etherboot are the working and non-working ones using?
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| 02:10 | <alomelo> everything goes fine till the message "Starting ltsp client"
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| 02:10 | After this message it says
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| 02:10 | alsa-utils.c: device doesnt support 44100Hz changed to 44099Hz [OK]
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| 02:10 | and it hangs
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| 02:11 | same thing happens for the other machine
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| 02:11 | Any suggestions?
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| 02:12 | <vagrantc> ok.
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| 02:12 | <vagrantc> alomelo: what version of etherboot are the working and non-working ones using?
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| 02:12 | <alomelo> the same 5.4.3
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| 02:12 | but nics are different of course
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| 02:12 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 02:13 | i'd best get some sleep rather than getting into troubleshooting a distro i don't even use :)
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| 02:13 | <alomelo> thanks anyway
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| 02:15 | <SteveWrightNZ> that sounds like the same problem I just had
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| 02:16 | alomelo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/149006
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| 02:16 | read here
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| 02:17 | <SteveWrightNZ> sudo nano /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 02:18 | add this ;
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| 02:18 | X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
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| 02:18 | X_MODE_0="1024x768"
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| 02:18 | save and reboot the terminal
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| 02:19 | <SteveWrightNZ> perhaps you might try depth=24
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| 02:27 | <alomelo> ok i see now your message
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| 02:27 | sorry
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| 02:27 | let me try
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| 02:31 | SteveWrightNZ no 16 didnt solve the problem
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| 02:31 | let me try with 24
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| 02:34 | SteveWrightNZ 24 didint solve neither
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| 07:10 | <cliebow_> ogra:anything in particular i should look gor with alternate cd??
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| 07:10 | /gor/for
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| 07:26 | <sonjag> Hello all. Is anyone out there using the load balancing with Gutsy? I'm especially interested if anyone has implemented the querying of ldminfod for the server rating, and if so, would you be willing to share the process and code you have for making it work. Thanks!
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| 07:45 | <shamot> Hi. I manage to install and run ltsp on ubuntu. Everything works fine. I boot up on client and log in, but I need to run some graphical applications (gvim for example) as different user. So I "su - shamot" in terminal, then "export DISPLAY=localhost:13.0" and then "gvim" but all I get is: X connection to localhost:13.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown). Any suggestions, please?
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| 07:52 | <Izigold> How do I add applications to LTSP 5 installed on a Debian machine? Specially the KDE environment.
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| 07:53 | akSeya has joined #ltsp | |
| 07:53 | <akSeya> hi there...
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| 07:53 | i have a little problem here.. one client is freezing very often...
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| 07:56 | <shamot> lzigold: just install it on server
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| 07:56 | <akSeya> on server processes, there is no more processes from that user... if I ping that IP, I have reply..
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| 07:56 | there is nothing on log files about that...
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| 07:57 | i thought that could be a bad client RAM.. but.. there is about no use of clients RAM, right?
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| 07:58 | the client is a K6 II 300
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| 07:59 | any idea on what is going on?! or.. is there anything else I can do to find out?
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| 08:00 | <cliebow__> Izigold, best speak to vagrantc..debaian guru
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| 08:00 | akSeya, how much memory in client?
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| 08:01 | <akSeya> i'll check to be sure.. but at least 64Mb
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| 08:01 | <cliebow__> can you go to 128?
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| 08:02 | <akSeya> cliebow_, only 32Mb.. yeah.. I can try
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| 08:02 | <Izigold> akSeya, try running this client with a live CD making sure the hardware is OK
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| 08:03 | <akSeya> i'll put 128Mb ram, then boot with a live CD and let it doing something..
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| 08:03 | <cliebow__> you just dont have enough!
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| 08:03 | <akSeya> going to lunch now... be back soon
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| 08:03 | <cliebow__> 128 may not be enough for live cd...
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| 08:04 | <akSeya> cliebow_, yeah.. that's true...
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| 08:04 | Ç(
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| 08:04 | :(
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| 08:09 | well.. got to go now.. i'll be back later.. thanks for the tips
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| 08:15 | <moldy> hi
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| 08:57 | <moldy> can the ubuntu ltsp packages "co-exist" somehow with an existing dhcp server?
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| 08:58 | <ogra> sure
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| 08:58 | <moldy> ogra: got any pointer to some documentation maybe?
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| 08:58 | <cliebow_> ogra:anything special i need to loook for in alternate cd install..so far has "just worked"
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| 08:59 | <moldy> ogra: i am running dnsmasq for dhcp and local dns here
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| 08:59 | <cliebow_> the gnome menus are a little flaky
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| 08:59 | <ogra> after my next upload there is more to test
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| 08:59 | <cliebow_> ok..let me know..
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| 08:59 | <ogra> should be tonight or tomorrow (given that freeze is tomorrow)
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| 08:59 | <cliebow_> seems as if i must hold down left mouse button to keep applications open...
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| 09:05 | <moldy> is there any up-to-date documentation for installing ltsp on a ubuntu gutsy?
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| 09:05 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LTSPHowTo found this but it seems to be slightly outdated
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| 09:06 | <ogra> !ubuntu
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| 09:06 | <ltspbot> ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 09:06 | <ogra> try the last link
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| 09:07 | <moldy> ogra: thank you
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| 09:09 | ogra: if i want to keep my existing dhcp server, how would i go about this?
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| 09:10 | <ogra> use the ltsp-server package instead of -standalone
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| 09:10 | standalone is the one that pulls in dhcpd ... ltsp-server doesnt
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| 09:10 | <moldy> ogra: ok. then i have to install all the services like tftp and so on manually?
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| 09:11 | <ogra> no, tftp and inetd will be set up by ltsp-build-client ... you have to configure your dhcp server
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| 09:13 | <moldy> ogra: ok, nice. where can i read how i need to configure the dhcp?
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| 09:14 | <ogra> ther is an example file in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/examples/dhcpd.conf
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| 09:15 | <moldy> ogra: ok, thx
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| 09:19 | <moldy> ok, now i just need to map the example configuration to dnsmasq...
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| 09:20 | <alomelo> ogra I dont think tftp is setup by ltsp-build script
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| 09:21 | I have just installed ltsp on Gutsy
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| 09:21 | <moldy> alomelo: i am in the middle of doing just that
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| 09:21 | <alomelo> and tftp is not in daemon mode by default
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| 09:21 | one must take it to daemon mode by hand
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| 09:21 | <ogra> urgh, dont !
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| 09:21 | its run by inetd :)
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| 09:22 | <alomelo> it didnt work in my case
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| 09:22 | <cliebow__> alomelo, ogra put this together...
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| 09:22 | <ogra> check your inetd.conf
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| 09:24 | <alomelo> i needed to edit etc/default/tftp file
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| 09:24 | <ogra> no
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| 09:25 | that breaks all defaults ...
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| 09:25 | <alomelo> filename is tftpd-hpa
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| 09:25 | what should have I done?
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| 09:25 | it didnt work till I change the file?
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| 09:25 | <ogra> dunno what your problem was ...
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| 09:26 | tftpd-hpa defaults to switch on the inetd setup, i wonder why it didnt for you, are you sure there is no line for it in your inetd.conf ?
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| 09:26 | <alomelo> the clients were not getting nbi.img files
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| 09:27 | there is now I guess
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| 09:27 | but I dont know how it was before
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| 09:30 | now I have problems with some clients
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| 09:30 | <ogra> well, filing a bug at the time you had the issue would have been helpful
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| 09:30 | <alomelo> X sessions dont start on these clients
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| 09:30 | <ogra> well, thast not related to tftp at all
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| 09:31 | <alomelo> everything goes fine till I get the message "alsa-utils.c device doesnt support 44000Hz changed to 44099Hz [OK] "
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| 09:31 | then they hang
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| 09:32 | <ogra> yes its not related
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| 09:38 | <alomelo> aha, ogra you are http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/ arent you?
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| 09:38 | i was browsing your internet pages
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| 09:39 | you have a lot stuff with ltsp
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| 09:40 | do you suggest me install ltsp-admin? because it requires (I guess) compilation, i didnt give it a try
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| 09:50 | <ogra> ltspadmin isnt ready yet ... requires someone to put some time in
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| 09:51 | <alomelo> ogra do you have any idea about my question
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| 09:53 | <ogra> not atm, sorry (ubuntu has feature freeze tomorrow and i try to get as much stuff fixed in ltsp as i can tonight, so i'm a tad busy)
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| 10:59 | <moldy> !ubuntu
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| 11:00 | <ltspbot> moldy: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
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| 11:13 | <savetheWorld> Hi all. Does anyone have a collection of cybercafe management tools for a thin client cyber cafe? Or suggestions for what works well in that direction?
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| 11:13 | !kiosk
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| 11:13 | <ltspbot> savetheWorld: Error: "kiosk" is not a valid command.
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| 11:13 | <savetheWorld> Le' Gaspe'!
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| 11:14 | !herlp
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| 11:14 | <ltspbot> savetheWorld: Error: "herlp" is not a valid command.
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| 11:14 | <savetheWorld> !help
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| 11:14 | <ltspbot> savetheWorld: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
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| 12:35 | <moldy> i installed tftp-server on ubuntu and configured my dhcp server -- how do i need to go about configuring tftp? any pointers?
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| 12:36 | <mfc_alpha> hello!
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| 12:36 | I need a geek :D
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| 12:37 | I install a ltsp server and I get some problem with the client
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| 12:37 | I think it's comming from NFS
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| 12:37 | comeone to help?
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| 12:37 | someone *
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| 12:43 | <vagrantc> mfc_alpha: if you install ltsp-server package, tftpd-hpa should be configured properly.
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| 12:43 | <moldy> vagrantc: you meant me? :)
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| 12:43 | <moldy> vagrantc: tftpd-hpa seems not to be running
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| 12:43 | <mfc_alpha> I am back sorry
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> moldy: is an inetd running?
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| 12:44 | <mfc_alpha> I have already install ltsp-server
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> moldy: by default, the tftp server is started by inetd
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| 12:44 | <moldy> vagrantc: yes, inetd is running
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| 12:44 | <vagrantc> if your problem is coming from NFS, then you must be well past tftp problems.
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| 12:45 | moldy: which linux distro and release?
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| 12:45 | <moldy> vagrantc: ubuntu 7.10
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| 12:45 | <mfc_alpha> apparently the kernel is properly transfer but not the File system
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| 12:45 | <moldy> vagrantc: in /etc/inetd.conf, there is no tftpd listed
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| 12:45 | vagrantc: there is proftpd listed there however, but it's commented out
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| 12:46 | <vagrantc> if the kernel is getting transferred, then tftp is working. period.
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| 12:46 | <moldy> vagrantc: the kernel is not getting transferred
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| 12:46 | <vagrantc> don't try and fix what isn't broken.
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| 12:46 | moldy: are you and mfc_alpha the same person or not?
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| 12:46 | <moldy> vagrantc: oh sorry i missed you were talking to mfc_alpha
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| 12:46 | vagrantc: no we are not, but you are mixing us up :)
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| 12:46 | <mfc_alpha> in fact I get the ( Mounting /rofs on /root/rofs failed : Invalid argument
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| 12:46 | <moldy> vagrantc: mfc_alpha was talking about *nfs*, i am talking about *tftp*
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| 12:47 | <vagrantc> moldy: well, you helped mix us up by asking if iw as talking to you :P
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| 12:47 | <moldy> vagrantc: because you mentioned tftpd-hpa ;)
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| 12:47 | <mfc_alpha> sorry moldy :D
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| 12:47 | <moldy> np ;-)
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| 12:47 | <mfc_alpha> and after this error I get other all about mounting
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| 12:48 | <vagrantc> mfc_alpha: what linux distro? what release?
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| 12:48 | <mfc_alpha> ubuntu
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| 12:48 | <vagrantc> ubuntu ... ?
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| 12:48 | <mfc_alpha> 7.10
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| 12:48 | <vagrantc> thanks.
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| 12:48 | <mfc_alpha> I was looking for :D
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| 12:49 | I seems to come from NFS isn't it?
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| 12:49 | <vagrantc> mfc_alpha: well, in gutsy/7.10, ubuntu switched to something other than NFS
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| 12:50 | <mfc_alpha> Ho!
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| 12:50 | <vagrantc> moldy, mfc_alpha: is this a clean install for both of you, or an upgrade?
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| 12:50 | <mfc_alpha> vagrantc: A clean install
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| 12:51 | vagrantc: you mean that something give the filesystem to the client and this thing is not NFS?
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| 12:51 | sorry for my poor english... :p
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| 12:52 | <vagrantc> mfc_alpha: correct.
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| 12:53 | <mfc_alpha> for my poor english :D
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| 12:53 | ?
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| 12:53 | :D
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| 12:53 | ok , I will take a look in this direction
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| 12:53 | thank you very much !
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| 12:54 | ++
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| 12:54 | <vagrantc> but ... how can i help if you take off?
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| 12:54 | * vagrantc chuckles | |
| 12:55 | <vagrantc> moldy: ok, so did you make any progress? still need a hand?
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| 13:10 | <moldy> vagrantc: sorry, i was afk
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| 13:10 | vagrantc: yes, tftp is working now -- i had to enable it in /etc/default
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| 13:10 | <vagrantc> most unusual that it didn't automatically configure inetd to use it.
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| 13:11 | <moldy> must be the ubuntu packages
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| 13:13 | vagrantc: the machine boots, i get to the graphical login prompt
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| 13:13 | <vagrantc> i'm almost certain the default behavior is to use inetd. so what was different or unusual about your configuration, i don't know.
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| 13:13 | <moldy> vagrantc: maybe it's that i am not running a "clean" ubuntu installation
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> very likely has something to do with it ...
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| 13:14 | <moldy> vagrantc: anyway... what does the client auth against, by default?
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| 13:14 | vagrantc: until now, i am running an ldap/nfs network here, an emulation of a windows domain, so to speak
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| 13:14 | <vagrantc> moldy: it ssh'es to the server
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| 13:14 | moldy: so you'd need to get ssh on the server to authenticate against ldap
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| 13:14 | <moldy> vagrantc: hm, the username/password i use to ssh to the server normally does not work
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| 13:15 | vagrantc: ssh on the server already should do that
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| 13:16 | vagrantc: but on the terminal client, i get "Login incorrect"
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| 13:16 | vagrantc: auth.log on the server shows no login attempt from the client
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| 13:17 | <vagrantc> moldy: have you configured lts.conf at all?
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| 13:17 | <moldy> vagrantc: no :)
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| 13:17 | <vagrantc> good
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| 13:18 | moldy: has the server changed ip addresses since you built the ltsp environment?
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| 13:19 | <moldy> vagrantc: no
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| 13:19 | <vagrantc> i'm at a loss ...
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| 13:20 | need to attend to other things at the moment ... hopefully someone who uses ubuntu can help you :)
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| 13:20 | <moldy> vagrantc: can i somehow get at any debugging output client-side?
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| 13:24 | <vagrantc> moldy: oh, yeah ... set SCREEN_07=ldm and SCREEN_NN=shell ... where NN is a tty that isn't used by anything else
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| 13:24 | moldy: look in /var/log/ldm.log
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| 13:26 | <moldy> vagrantc: thanks
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| 13:26 | vagrantc: /var/log/ldm.log on the client?
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| 13:27 | <vagrantc> moldy: yes.
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| 13:28 | <moldy> vagrantc: ok, thanks
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| 13:40 | <moldy> vagrantc: /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf <- do i need to set the SCREEN_NN stuff there?
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| 13:40 | <vagrantc> moldy: yes ... you'll need a [Default] entry, and then list the SCREEN_*=FOO stuff in there
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| 13:44 | <moldy> vagrantc: do i need to do anything for the changes to take effect except reboot the client?
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| 13:44 | <vagrantc> moldy: shouldn't need to, no.
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| 13:44 | moldy: i mean, reboot the client, but that's it
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| 13:44 | <moldy> vagrantc: nopaste.py /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf --> http://phpfi.com/296093
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> we have an in-house pastebot, too
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| 13:45 | !pastebot
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| 13:45 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 13:45 | <moldy> vagrantc: oh, nice
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> moldy: presuming ubuntu isn't using tty2, that looks good to me.
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| 13:46 | <moldy> vagrantc: i don't see a tty on tty2, unfortunately
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> moldy: unfortunately?
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| 13:46 | <moldy> i tried tty8, too, same effect
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| 13:46 | vagrantc: i thought that config should get me a tty on tty2?
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| 13:47 | i have a gui login prompt on tty7 and a text one on tty1, all other ttys just have a blinking cursor
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> moldy: ok, try SCREEN_07=shell
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| 13:47 | <moldy> ok
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> let's just see if it's reading the lts.conf at all.
| |
| 13:48 | * vagrantc grumbles about ubuntu | |
| 13:48 | <moldy> hehe
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| 13:48 | so far, getting ubuntu from dapper to a gutsy was more of a problem than ltsp ;)
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> oh, this started out as a dapper box?
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| 13:49 | <moldy> yes
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| 13:49 | i upgradet to gutsy and then installed ltsp
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> did you first upgrade to edgy, feisty, and then gutsy?
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| 13:50 | <moldy> vagrantc: i think i skipped egdy
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| 13:50 | <vagrantc> i didn't think ubuntu supported upgrades between arbitrary releases
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| 13:50 | <moldy> right, they do not
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| 13:50 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 13:50 | <moldy> dapper->feisty->gutsy seems to have worked for me though
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| 13:51 | i.e. no problems so far
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| 13:51 | <vagrantc> yeah, haven't found a single problem yet :P
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| 13:51 | <moldy> i skipped edgy by accident... all those funny names confuse me
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> moldy: any luck on getting a shell on tty7?
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| 13:52 | <moldy> vagrantc: do you think my current problems could be related to the fact that i skipped edgy?
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| 13:52 | vagrantc: nope, still get a gui login prompt on tty7
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> ok, so it's not reading the configuration file
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| 13:53 | and this is where ubuntu and debian diverge so much that i throw my hands in the air and say "good luck" :)
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| 13:53 | <moldy> vagrantc: ah well.. thanks so far
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| 13:55 | vagrantc: right now my test thin client is on the same subnet as all my usual clients, could this be a problem?
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| 13:56 | <vagrantc> otavio: do you know what the numbers below "Needs build" mean? http://people.debian.org/~igloo/status.php?packages=ldm
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| 13:57 | <vagrantc> moldy: if it's possible that it's getting incorrect dhcp information
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| 13:57 | <moldy> vagrantc: one curious fact: when i login to the server via ssh from a fat client, it shows the failed login from the thin client as the last login
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| 13:57 | * vagrantc wonders how that can happen without making entries in the logs | |
| 13:59 | <moldy> vagrantc: ok, hit me
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| 13:59 | vagrantc: login seems to work, at least that's what the server logs tell me
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| 14:00 | vagrantc: then i get, in the server log: pam_env(ssh:setcred): Unable to open env file: /etc/default/locale: No such file or directory.
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| 14:00 | on the client, i am thrown back to the login prompt.
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| 14:00 | <otavio> vagrantc: your queue number
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> otavio: so 1 would be the next package to build ... ?
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| 14:01 | <otavio> vagrantc: yes
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> otavio: the number keeps going up and down ...
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| 14:02 | otavio: do we loose our place in the queue with a new upload?
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| 14:02 | <moldy> if i create /etc/default/locale, the error message is gone, but the client still throws me back to the login prompt immediately
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| 14:02 | <otavio> vagrantc: it changes if something with highger priority gets uploaded
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| 14:03 | <vagrantc> moldy: i don't know if this is an option, but re-installing from scratch without doing all those upgrades might work a bit better...
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| 14:03 | <moldy> vagrantc: yeah, i might do it as a last resort
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| 14:03 | vagrantc: do i need to have a gui installed on the server for the client to be able to login?
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| 14:03 | i.e. gnome/kde/whatever?
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| 14:04 | <vagrantc> otavio: you think it's ok to make ltsp, ldm and ltspfs i386/amd64/powerpc only ?
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| 14:04 | <otavio> vagrantc: dunoo
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| 14:05 | vagrantc: it depends if it has or not support for other arches
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| 14:06 | <vagrantc> otavio: well, i'm not really able to test most architectures... but i've fought and fought with sparc.
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| 14:06 | <moldy> on the terminal client, should i be able to login to the text login on tty1, or is it normal that this does not work?
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| 14:07 | <vagrantc> otavio: the network booting code only supports i386, powerpc, and sparc, with untested code for alpha.
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| 14:07 | moldy: you would have to configure a user in the chroot and run ltsp-update-image ...
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| 14:08 | <moldy> vagrantc: ok, so this is normal, good
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| 14:08 | <vagrantc> otavio: oh, and amd64...
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| 14:08 | <otavio> vagrantc: so it should be setted for those
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| 14:08 | vagrantc: and ask for testers
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| 14:08 | <moldy> on the terminal server, there must be an X process running, right?
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| 14:09 | <vagrantc> otavio: but sparc definitely doesn't work... the network boot part in ltsp works, but there's bugs in klibc-utils that cause it to fail in the initramfs.
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| 14:09 | <moldy> vagrantc: hah, it works (after installing xfce4)... thanks for your help
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| 14:10 | <otavio> vagrantc: but it's not a ltfs bug then
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| 14:10 | vagrantc: so _it_ works
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| 14:10 | <vagrantc> moldy: oh ... you didn't have a window manager installed?
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| 14:10 | otavio: but i can't get it to the point to test ltspfs or ldm on sparc ...
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| 14:11 | <moldy> vagrantc: right :)
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| 14:11 | * vagrantc is still a bit sick and slow-brained | |
| 14:11 | <vagrantc> normally i'd ask about that
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| 14:11 | <otavio> vagrantc: sick? are you doing well?
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| 14:11 | <moldy> vagrantc: it's me who is slow-brained :)
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| 14:11 | <otavio> vagrantc: long time no talk with you
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| 14:12 | <moldy> anyway, basic ltsp is working... time to go out and have a drink :)
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> otavio: last few days i've had a pretty bad cold ...
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| 14:12 | <otavio> vagrantc: oh my! and are you feeling better now?
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> otavio: yeah ... you're busy with debian-installer stuff mostly?
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| 14:12 | <otavio> vagrantc: fever too?
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| 14:12 | <vagrantc> fever, chills, cough ...
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| 14:12 | <otavio> vagrantc: yes. Coordinating its releasing isn't an easy task! hehe
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| 14:13 | <vagrantc> otavio: i look forward to it- i'll start working on simple-cdd again once it comes out :)
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| 14:13 | <moldy> ok, i'm out... see you guys
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| 14:13 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 14:13 | <moldy> and thanks :)
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| 14:14 | <otavio> vagrantc: chills ... convulsive?
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| 14:14 | vagrantc: keep on mind that am I not a native ;-)
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| 14:15 | <vagrantc> otavio: fever = hot, chills = cold
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| 14:15 | <otavio> vagrantc: ahhh ok
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| 14:16 | vagrantc: but you're better now?
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| 14:16 | <vagrantc> otavio: a little better, but still pretty bad
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| 14:16 | <otavio> vagrantc: hope you get better asap
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| 14:16 | <Gadi> vagrantc: I cleaned up my code a bit and pushed again
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| 14:17 | * Gadi passes vagrantc a tissue and a valium | |
| 14:17 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'll take a look
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| 14:42 | <ogra_cmpc> oooops
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| 14:43 | vagrantc, sorry i just modified your 020-apt-get-update with my last commit ... wasnt aware that was linked from you
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| 14:45 | <Cesar> :D
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| 14:54 | <mighty-d> HI, im using tcpwrappers on portmap i have set inside hosts.deny ALL:ALL and im using inside hosts.allow portmap: 192.168.9.0/255.255.255.0 which is my network, but im unable to use nfs, would you tell me what im doing wrong?
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| 14:55 | <cliebow_> you need more than jus portmap..need nfs itself?
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| 14:56 | <mighty-d> cliebow_, so i need to set nfs: 192.168.9.0/255.255.255.0
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| 14:56 | <cliebow_> something like that i'd think
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| 14:56 | <mighty-d> :P
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> ogra_cmpc: i think the procy checking belongs in it's own plugin
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| 15:11 | <ogra> vagrantc, ah well
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| 15:56 | <achandrashekar_> hello. I have been trying for two days to configure the dhcp failover in edubuntu for ltsp and when ever i put in the failover parameters into the dhcp.conf in /etc/ltsp my clients cant boot. If I comment it out, then no problem. Can some one help or has run into this before?
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| 15:57 | and btw...for now i am just dealing with the master. I have NOT configured a slave. Does that make a difference?
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| 16:36 | <lns> Who's got Koolu thin clients?
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| 16:41 | <lns> I can't get them to boot via Gutsy LTSP. According to http://forum.koolu.org/viewtopic.php?t=2 Gutsy should "just work"... I'm getting a signal 11 from Xorg when it tries to launch X. Any ideas?
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| 16:59 | <lns> Just tried, out of curiosity, the feisty amd driver - that didn't work at all
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| 18:45 | <lns> pastebin.ca/901905 - This is the Koolu thin client's Xorg.1.log when trying to start X
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| 18:46 | Does anyone have any clues? I thought these things "just worked" with Ubuntu (Gutsy even)
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| 18:49 | its strange - I talked to a rep over at Koolu and he said that they were working with Gutsy, contrary to the (very long ago) post on their site at http://www.koolu.ca/News/Gutsy-/-Ubuntu-7.10-Upgrade-Announcement.html - I wonder what could be the holdup (Geode drivers?)
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| 18:53 | <ogra> vagrantc, with which autoconf/automake did you build your latest ldm package ? i cant manage to get the autofoo working here
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| 18:55 | * ogra curses ... | |
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| 18:59 | <ogra> vagrantc, what happens with LDM_THEME unset ? is it backwards compatible and uses the "default" link as all former releases ? so upgrades dont fall apart ?
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| 19:00 | * ogra is not even remotely happy with the themeing changes | |
| 19:00 | <ogra> damned, i should have looked earlier ...
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| 19:08 | <lns> ahh, found this pertaining to my issue! (note to self: check ubuntu forums, google, launchpad, all wikis, etc....in order =p)
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| 19:08 | http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9300306/xorg-output
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: LDM_THEME should fall back to /usr/share/ldm/themes/default
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| 19:09 | <ogra> ah, perfect
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| 19:09 | * vagrantc doesn't like breaking backwards compatibility | |
| 19:09 | <ogra> i also just found that we apparently cant build ldm without automake 1.9 anymore :/
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> ogra: and i haven't actually used the "make install" parts for ldm yet ...
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| 19:09 | <ogra> my former builds worked with 1.7
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| 19:09 | well, i'm way before "make install"
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| 19:10 | ari_stress has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:10 | <ogra> autogen doesnt work with autoconf1.7
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| 19:10 | <ari_stress> morning
| |
| 19:10 | <vagrantc> i've either been using automake1.9 or automake1.10 ...
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| 19:10 | <lns> 'evening, ari_stress =p
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| 19:10 | <ogra> well, buildd default is 1.7 in debian and ubuntu afaik
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| 19:11 | <ari_stress> :)
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| 19:11 | <ogra> luckily we dont run it during build ... else we'd need a build-dep
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 19:11 | pwd
| |
| 19:15 | RyanRyan52: oh, i thought of something that needed some cleaning up ... having it not call getenv("LDM_THEME") as often
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| 19:29 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: okay
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| 19:29 | vagrantc: Is that change in trunk?
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: yeah, make a new branch off ldm-trunk ...
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| 19:30 | <Ryan52> okay
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| 20:04 | <ogra> vagrantc, where did the screen.d script for ldm go ?
| |
| 20:04 | it was dropped from ltsp but not included in ldm
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| 20:05 | gonzaloaf has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:05 | * vagrantc looks | |
| 20:06 | <vagrantc> ldm-trunk/screen.d/ldm ??
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| 20:06 | <ogra> meh
| |
| 20:06 | i should get some sleep (fi only i could :P )
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| 20:07 | sorry, temporary blindness ... i shouldnt judge the source contents by binary packages :)
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> yes, although at some point it would be nice if we could switch to using "make install" like we do for ltspfs
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| 20:08 | and then that would be less of a worry
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| 20:08 | ogra: not all of the changes are relvent for you, but you should probably look at my ldm-debian-packaging branch
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| 20:09 | <ogra> i will
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| 20:09 | thanks
| |
| 20:09 | <vagrantc> it's been working with bzr for the last month or so pretty consistantly ... a few things got moved around when fedora got involved :)
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| 20:10 | pwd
| |
| 20:10 | ldm-trunk bzr, that is
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| 20:10 | <ogra> well, i only cared for the themes so far
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| 20:10 | and i have it building
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| 20:11 | <vagrantc> ogra: you calling --libexecdir in debian/rules ?
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| 20:13 | otavio: so does a package priority (required, important, standard, optional, extra) effect where in the buildd's queue a package ends up?
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| 20:14 | <ogra> nope
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| 20:14 | <vagrantc> otavio: it seems like ldm and ltspfs never actually make any progress past 200-300 in the queue...
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| 20:15 | <ogra> inst that defaulting to /usr/lib anyway ?
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| 20:15 | *isnt
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| 20:15 | <vagrantc> ogra: it now defaults to /usr/libexec
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| 20:16 | <ogra> why would it do that ?
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| 20:16 | there is no such dir anywhere by default on debian/ubuntu ... so that would be a silly default
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> ogra: something the fedora folks did ...
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| 20:16 | <ogra> err
| |
| 20:17 | why doest it use the system default for libexecdir ?
| |
| 20:17 | * vagrantc doesn't know | |
| 20:17 | <ogra> warren, ?
| |
| 20:17 | <vagrantc> at any rate, simply: ./configure --prefix=/usr --libexecdir=/usr/lib
| |
| 20:17 | should get it working
| |
| 20:17 | <ogra> well
| |
| 20:18 | ./configure --prefix=/usr should get it working as well ... why the heck do we use autoconf if we dont use its capability to determine system settings
| |
| 20:19 | <vagrantc> at any rate, the code is in a much better state to put it whatever crazy place your distro thinks it belongs.
| |
| 20:19 | <ogra> still
| |
| 20:20 | i'm slowly starting to get unhappy with the attitude that there is no other linux than fedora
| |
| 20:22 | <vagrantc> while i've *always* disliked that sort of attitude
| |
| 20:22 | s,while,well,
| |
| 20:22 | we've got a few very stubborn folks involved in this stuff :)
| |
| 20:24 | <ogra> yeah, but we somehow still get along, isnt that great :)
| |
| 20:28 | <vagrantc> ogra: i don't really see a path to libexec hardcoded anywhere
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| 20:28 | <ogra> hmm, you dont have any code to install the screen.d script either
| |
| 20:28 | its set in configure
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| 20:29 | <vagrantc> yes, but configure is generated from the source, and in the source, there's no hard-coded libexec
| |
| 20:29 | i'm guessing it's an automake default or something
| |
| 20:29 | <ogra> weird
| |
| 20:29 | i cant imagine having a default on ubuntu for a dir that never exists
| |
| 20:30 | <vagrantc> that's why debian/rules exists ...
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| 20:30 | <ogra> well, if there is such a misconfig in the build scripts i'd rather fix their default to something sane
| |
| 20:31 | * vagrantc suspects there is no sane global default. | |
| 20:31 | <vagrantc> they have their reasons why i belongs there, we have ours, and in the end, it's trivial to support both locations
| |
| 20:32 | <ogra> well, in the end my build tools should use defaults that work on my system :)
| |
| 20:32 | <vagrantc> maybe there was a bit too much push for the default to be fedora, though i honestly don't see where it's defined...
| |
| 20:32 | <ogra> if autoconf or whatever sets the default to a nonexisting location that default needs fixing for my distro
| |
| 20:33 | i would expect my system tools to use defaults that actually work on this system :)
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> ogra: you're not sleeping tonight, are you?
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| 20:35 | <ogra> nope
| |
| 20:35 | meeting at 8am (4.5h) and freeze tomorrow
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| 20:35 | <warren> ogra, "i'm slowly starting to get unhappy with the attitude that there is no other linux than fedora"
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| 20:36 | ogra, we often believe that there is this kind of attitude from Ubuntu.
| |
| 20:36 | ogra, us being angry at each other is not productive.
| |
| 20:36 | vagrantc, libexecdir is defined as a GNU standard, Debian doesn't have it?
| |
| 20:36 | ogra, and isn't it a case that you weren't even using the make install scripts at all before?
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| 20:37 | <vagrantc> warren: it doesn't have /usr/libexec
| |
| 20:37 | <warren> vagrantc, yes but it isn't even defined to somewhere else? It is a standard GNU directory no?
| |
| 20:37 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah, but the libexec changes do more than decide where it gets installed- it changes the binaries
| |
| 20:38 | warren: heck if i know what's standard, i just got it all working and don't mind so much.
| |
| 20:38 | * warren checks FHS | |
| 20:38 | <vagrantc> definitely not in the FHS in debian
| |
| 20:38 | <ogra> warren, i'm not angry :)
| |
| 20:38 | (probably with the autotools maintainer from debian/ubuntu though, for not using sane defaults)
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| 20:40 | <warren> vagrantc, perhaps we should add a conditional macro to the autotooling, if it isn't defined then pick a sane default
| |
| 20:40 | vagrantc, I bet other upstream source does this
| |
| 20:41 | <ogra> warren, i think thats something the tools should handle themselves
| |
| 20:41 | nothing we should have ot work around in our code
| |
| 20:42 | i'll talk to the autofoo maintainer tomorrow if we can change it to something usable
| |
| 20:49 | vagrantc, hmm. do you have any code creating the rc.d dir in your packaging ?
| |
| 20:50 | <warren> ogra, it might be workaroundable in both the ltsp-trunk code and autotools of the distro
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| 20:50 | <ogra> warren, yes, but its the wrong way (imho)
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| 20:50 | (to do it in the code)
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| 20:50 | <warren> ogra, it doesn't hurt though
| |
| 20:51 | <ogra> why else do i have a distro thats supposed to integrate the apps as good as possible
| |
| 20:51 | if i have a build env, it should be perfectly adjusted for my current platform
| |
| 20:51 | if it sets non existing default thats a bug imho
| |
| 20:51 | <achandrashekar_> hello. I had issues with edubuntu and getting failover to work. I jumped over to k12ltsp and im looking to get ltsp working with dhcp failover/load balance. I specifically had issues with the failover component not working with eth0 and it complained of such in logs. Can anyone give insight into whether the k12ltsp distro is good for school envs?
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| 20:54 | <RyanRyan52> vagrantc: http://llama.freegeek.org/~ryan52/bzr/ltsp/ldm-cleanup/
| |
| 20:55 | <ogra> achandrashekar_, k12ltsp is as good as edubuntu for your school ... the current prob with k12 is that it just being switched over to ltsp5, i'd suggest waiting until the next k12 release where it will incorporate ltsp5 ... did you try mailing the edubuntu-users mailing list about your prob ? i know dtrask reads it
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| 20:57 | <RyanRyan52> vagrantc: wait 1 minute...I am pushing one more change to it
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| 20:57 | vagrantc: okay
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| 20:58 | <achandrashekar_> orga: yes..i posted there too.the issue is Im under tremendous pressure to get this env up, as windows viruses have plagued the darn environment. It is a big school, so I need a proof of concept ready to go.
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| 20:59 | orga: 6.0 just was released..which is what i have. i suppose an rpm -qa should tell me which version of ltsp comes with that.
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| 21:02 | <ogra> vagrantc, looking at Ryans changes i wonder why we never enforced glib in ldm ... scott made quite some effort to port the code to it ...
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> ogra: over my head
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| 21:02 | <ogra> but with all the patches and nobody caring for it it became a mess again
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| 21:04 | i dont really mind as long as it works and we dont start using gets() and puts() but its a sad fact that such cleanup efforts seem to be pointless
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| 21:05 | <RyanRyan52> what's the point of using glib?
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| 21:06 | <ogra> less securtiy worries, cleaner code
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| 21:06 | <RyanRyan52> oh
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| 21:06 | <ogra> smaller code as well, if you dont link against a ton of libs ....
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| 21:08 | <vagrantc> RyanRyan52: it looks like some of the changes are also pertaining to the guest button code?
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| 21:08 | <ogra> as i said i'm happy as long as it works and we dont rip big security holes into it ...
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| 21:09 | <RyanRyan52> oh yes...there were compiler warnings that I didn't notice
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| 21:09 | <ogra> (as long as we dont have to handle translations at least ... as soon as utf-8 is in the game, glib will be pretty handy)
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| 21:09 | * ogra wonders where the cancelbutton comes from *again* | |
| 21:09 | <ogra> i removed it two time now ...
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| 21:09 | *times
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc> RyanRyan52: best to keep unreleated changes in a separate branch
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| 21:11 | <ogra> hmm, its commented out but the code is still (or again) in there
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| 21:11 | * RyanRyan52 wondered about that... | |
| 21:11 | <ogra> it can go
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| 21:11 | <RyanRyan52> vagrantc, okay. I will next time
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> RyanRyan52: is the code tested?
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| 21:12 | <RyanRyan52> yes
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| 21:13 | I never send you code that isn't fully tested
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| 21:13 | <achandrashekar_> ogra: while Im at it..i know your busy...but installing edubuntu on standalone mode produced some issues with dhcp and binding to eth0. Is that typical?
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| 21:15 | <vagrantc> RyanRyan52: well, good :)
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| 21:19 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "patch to properly restart ldm instead of asking 3 times in case password was wrong" (15 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/446
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> ogra: i haven't yet added packaging to install ldm's screen script yet
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| 21:20 | <ogra> in case you want to fix that ^^^
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| 21:22 | <warren> vagrantc, did we talk about moving ldminfod to ldm itself yet?
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| 21:22 | * warren can't remember. | |
| 21:22 | <ogra> achandrashekar_, what do you mean by "standalone mode" ?
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| 21:22 | <warren> vagrantc, we don't have to do it now, but I hope we can do it soon.
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| 21:22 | <ogra> warren, please dont
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| 21:22 | <warren> why?
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| 21:22 | <vagrantc> warren: we've talked about it, and i told you ogra wouldn't like it :)
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| 21:22 | <ogra> because that will require that ldm gets server and client binaries ...
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| 21:23 | <warren> oh
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| 21:23 | right
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| 21:23 | damn
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| 21:23 | ok, you convinced me
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| 21:23 | <ogra> while it currently operates on any ssh server out of the box
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| 21:23 | <warren> I'm OK with this for now
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| 21:23 | but I think something better will be designed eventually
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| 21:23 | <ogra> i know i cant hold it up
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| 21:23 | <warren> not in the next 6 months though
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| 21:24 | I'm OK with leaving it there
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| 21:24 | until we design something better
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| 21:24 | <ogra> but i dont want to lose the possibility to use any ssh server without extras
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| 21:24 | <warren> this discussion will happen again 6+ months from now
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| 21:25 | <ogra> probably
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| 21:25 | * ogra will surely have some time to finally finish a lot of stuff he has planned for ldm since ages next release | |
| 21:26 | <ogra> i have tons of half finished code here i wrote when i did the initial C implementation
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| 21:26 | and the UI really needs lots of usability fixes
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| 21:27 | its still the thing i wrote as interim ... scottie just added some stuff
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| 21:28 | * ogra really looks forward to next release ... with edubuntu going away as it is now i will really have time to tackle some things that are waiting so long already | |
| 21:28 | <warren> The GNOME guys are interested in gdm integration possibilities after F9.
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| 21:28 | <ogra> hmm
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| 21:28 | <warren> ogra, our F9 release is scheduled only days after your 8.04
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| 21:29 | <ogra> after ?
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| 21:29 | i thought you were befor us this time
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| 21:29 | <warren> ?
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| 21:29 | no
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| 21:29 | <ogra> ah
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| 21:29 | <vagrantc> RyanRyan52: i merged it as two separate patches ...
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| 21:30 | when i'm finished hacking up both my lungs, maybe i'll actually have the energy for a new upload to debian this week...
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| 21:30 | * vagrantc coughs | |
| 21:30 | <ogra> warren, we should secretly bribe our release managers and get them to use the same date :)
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| 21:31 | <warren> ogra, the media would be confused, what to cover?
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| 21:31 | <ogra> yeah *g*
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> ogra: what the "sleep(5);" in the no re-ask the password thingy?
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| 21:32 | <ogra> vagrantc, without it the greeter will respawn immediately ...
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| 21:32 | <vagrantc> ogra: wouldn't we want to to sleep after the message was displayed?
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| 21:33 | <ogra> it for the user, so she actually sees the "password failed"
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| 21:33 | right
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 21:33 | <ogra> thats what the patch does
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> whereas the die() message is actually for the logs
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| 21:33 | <ogra> right
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> ogra: gadi's got that huge monolithic patch that i can't make heads or tails of that sounds like it has lots of nice features....
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| 21:34 | <ogra> vagrantc, hmm, i know, but i'm nearly done with my ldm package now ... ill dpatch them in later or ask for a freeze exception
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> ogra: i've been trying to find the bits i can pull out and make sense of ... the low-hanging fruit ...
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| 21:34 | <ogra> we cant drop the-x
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| 21:35 | the -X
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| 21:35 | ltspfs and consolekit would break
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> i don't know what that's about- i've been using LDM_DIRECTX on numerous occasions and it never had troubles
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| 21:35 | <ogra> you have two displays
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> i don't think he dropped it from ltspfs ...
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| 21:36 | <ogra> the ssh tunnel sets DISPLAY to localhost ... then starts the X session with DISPLAY pointing to the client
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> right.
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| 21:36 | <ogra> so all stuff starting before the session will have to use ssh's display
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> if it needs a DISPLAY
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| 21:37 | <ogra> (which still persists even though its overridden)
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| 21:37 | well, consolekit does ... and ltspfs does
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| 21:37 | both make use of the display before its set
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> i didn't get an answer when i asked what was actually broken
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| 21:38 | <ogra> and in case of consolekit there is no other opportunity
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| 21:38 | <vagrantc> because i've used LDM_DIRECTX
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| 21:38 | i *really* like the idea of only respawning the greeter on failed logins
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| 21:38 | <ogra> well, its pretty ugly and unclean the way it is atm, but apparently the only way to get it working with the current design
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| 21:39 | ssh wont hand over DISPLAY other than the proxy it set itself to consolekit as long as -X is used ... if -X isnt used it wont even establish a CK session
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| 21:40 | so for CKits essential to still have the -x in ...
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| 21:40 | *-X
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| 21:40 | sigh
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| 21:40 | *so for CK its essential to still have the -X in ...
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| 21:41 | <vagrantc> ogra: have you tested the single password attempt patch you posted?
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| 21:42 | <ogra> yes
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| 21:42 | i'm using it here
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> ogra: any objection to having the greeter not display the date ?
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| 21:43 | <ogra> well, its properly displayed in german :P
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| 21:43 | no, none
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> and probably other parts of europe :)
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| 21:43 | but to make localized code would be a pain, unless there was a reason to keep it :)
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| 21:43 | <ogra> i'd like to have it as an option ... but its not mandatory atm
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| 21:44 | thast what we have locales for :)
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| 21:44 | * vagrantc wonders about a LDM_TIMEFORMAT option or something | |
| 21:44 | <ogra> nah
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| 21:44 | you have LANG already
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| 21:44 | should be possible to determine the format from the system through that
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| 21:45 | <vagrantc> first thing is to remove the euro-centric datestring, then we add features in :)
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| 21:45 | of course, this will me we'll need to add ntp support or something ...
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| 21:48 | <ogra> i was hoping for an easier method ...
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| 21:48 | something that doesnt require any server side config and extra deps
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| 21:49 | actually ...
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| 21:49 | hmm
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| 21:50 | * vagrantc isn't so fond of re-implementing a time-tested wheel | |
| 21:51 | <ogra> well, i wonder we're getting the lts.conf from tftp anyway ... i wonder if it wouldnt be possible to detect the time through that
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| 21:52 | i'm not fond of having to set up nbd on the server ... or opening other extra ports
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| 21:52 | <vagrantc> just set up a cron job that runs every second updating a file in the tftp dir :)
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| 21:52 | <ogra> yay
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| 21:52 | finally a solution
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| 21:52 | <vagrantc> i guess it requires cron ... but still
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| 21:53 | could pass it through ldminfod ... but which server gets priority if you have multiple servers defined?
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| 21:54 | <ogra> well, we had that discussion in seville and didnt find a solution :)
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| 21:54 | (for the prio, not the time issue)
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| 21:54 | <vagrantc> what was the point of boston, then? :P
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| 21:54 | <ogra> for me ?
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| 21:55 | getting rid of 80% of my work :)
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| 21:55 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 21:55 | <ogra> i'm now actually working in the job you were applying for ...
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| 21:56 | edubuntu gets merged into ubuntu over the next two relases
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| 21:56 | <vagrantc> well, at least they found someone qualified :)
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| 21:56 | <ogra> heh
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| 21:56 | i got my selfwritten job description with my new contract :)
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| 22:01 | * vagrantc fails to find some sort of "getlocalizeddate" function | |
| 22:02 | <Ryan52> vagrantc: what language? I wasn't following the conversation...
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| 22:02 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: more C, if you want to have a crack at it :)
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| 22:03 | <Ryan52> Yay!
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| 22:03 | <ogra> vagrantc, LC_TIME="de_DE.UTF-8" ... there must be some equivalent that sets the date string based on this var
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| 22:03 | <Ryan52> more for me to do!
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, i guess we can pass arbitrary locale stuff in lts.conf
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| 22:04 | looks like we have a volunteer
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| 22:04 | <ogra> date +"%x %X"
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| 22:04 | that checks the locale first
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| 22:04 | (see man date)
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| 22:04 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: look in ldm-trunk/gtkgreet/greeter.c for timestring
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| 22:05 | <ogra> why would you set anything in lts.conf ?
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, just seems like we could use a native C implementation
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| 22:05 | <ogra> we set the locale during client build
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| 22:05 | so there is no need to fiddle with it
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> ogra: i've had requests from multi-lingual LTSP sites...
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| 22:06 | <ogra> well, as long as ldm isnt translatable i dont care anyway
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> besides, we probably don't have to handle anything differently in our code.
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| 22:06 | heh
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| 22:06 | Ryan52: that's another feature to get fixed up... getting ldm translateable again
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| 22:06 | (as if it ever was)
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| 22:07 | * Ryan52 still has no clue how you make things translatable... | |
| 22:07 | <ogra> it was never ...
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| 22:07 | at least not the C variant
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: look in ldm-trunk/po for a broken implementation
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| 22:07 | nor the python
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| 22:07 | <Ryan52> okay
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| 22:07 | <ogra> well, in the pythin one you could only change two strings
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| 22:07 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 22:07 | <ogra> *python
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| 22:09 | anyway, taking a break now ... 3h until meeting and ltspfs still pending ... ldm only half done ...
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| 22:34 | * RyanRyan52 can't find a way to do the date thing... | |
| 22:45 | <vagrantc> oh well. hm.
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