IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 January 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <Ryan52> I wonder if it'll work through inetd.
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| 00:01 | cyberorg has quit IRC | |
| 00:01 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: and there's the problem with iw_IL.UTF-8 still
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| 00:01 | <Ryan52> what's that?
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| 00:02 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "iw_IL issue" (10 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/220
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| 00:02 | <Ryan52> o
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| 00:03 | * Ryan52 fixes | |
| 00:03 | <Ryan52> how do I get the length of a string?
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| 00:03 | * Ryan52 will google | |
| 00:04 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: len(string)
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| 00:05 | <Ryan52> language-with-name:iw_IL.UTF-8 (ישראל):iw_IL.UTF-8
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| 00:05 | problem solved.
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| 00:06 | <vagrantc> hmmm... i think many of the "languages" with ; delimiters aren't translated
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| 00:07 | language-with-name:Georgian (საქართველო):ka_GE.UTF-8
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| 00:07 | surely they have a native translation for their own language...
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| 00:07 | that doesn't even have the ;
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| 00:08 | <Ryan52> language-with-name:Español; Castellano (España):es_ES.UTF-8
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| 00:08 | <vagrantc> maybe some are just missing translations...
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| 00:08 | <Ryan52> yes, that's what I'm assuming.
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| 00:09 | * vagrantc suspects language-with-name:ግዕዝኛ (ኤርትራ):gez_ER.UTF-8 is amiss | |
| 00:10 | * Ryan52 totally speaks ግዕዝኛ :p | |
| 00:10 | <vagrantc> my unicode is a little weak.
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| 00:14 | <Ryan52> hrm. a few languages do that..
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| 00:15 | so what do I do? leave it as is and push?
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| 00:15 | <vagrantc> it's way better than what's there now.
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| 00:16 | <Ryan52> now lets see if it actually works..
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| 00:17 | <vagrantc> and now we enter the hostile world of language politics
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| 00:21 | <Ryan52> it worked! /me pushes
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| 01:29 | <redspike> how i get "euro" keys like "aao" to work on the clients?
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| 01:30 | ill canot fint the xorg.conf file for the clients :(
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| 01:31 | <Ryan52> XKBLAYOUT A valid xorg Layout unset see xorg documentation for value
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| 01:31 | redspike, from the docs, it looks like you just have to set XKBLAYOUT in lts.conf
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| 01:33 | <redspike> Ryan52: what i have read it can have some with the fonts todo to? that the fonts 75 and 100dpi most be :unscaled ?
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| 01:34 | <alkisg> redspice, distro/version?
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| 01:36 | <alkisg> *redspike
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| 01:36 | <redspike> alkisg, ubuntu 8.10
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| 01:37 | its not the keys on the keyboard that dosent work, its some console applications that runs in X that dosent displays that type of chars right.
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| 01:37 | <shrek> hi!
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| 01:37 | <alkisg> It should use your server defaults, without any lts.conf modifications. What do you have in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/console-setup ?
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| 01:38 | <shrek> anyone with some success with openchrome on ubuntu 8.10
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| 01:38 | ?
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| 01:38 | <redspike> alkisg: it works on the "server" but not on the clients :/
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| 01:38 | <shrek> can't get it working despite the presence of openchrome drivers in the chroot
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| 01:40 | <alkisg> redspike: Ah, I see. If it isn't a keyboard issue, then it's probably a locale issue. What does `sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 locale -a` give you?
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| 01:40 | ...and also `cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/environment` ?
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| 01:41 | <polytan> hi
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| 01:42 | <redspike> alkisg: locale -a gives C POSIX sv_SE.utf8
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| 01:43 | /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/environment dosent exist
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| 01:43 | <alkisg> And /etc/environment ?
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| 01:44 | <redspike> PATH="/usr/localsbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games
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| 01:45 | alkisg: ^
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| 01:45 | <alkisg> You should have LANGUAGE=xxx and LANG=xxx entries in both environment files
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| 01:46 | I wonder how you did the installation and ended up without them...
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| 01:46 | <redspike> but i dont have them on the server iself in /etc and on the server it works?
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| 01:47 | <alkisg> Yes, but on the server you run the application that installed the language support
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| 01:47 | I don't know the details here, but I think that's the problem
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| 01:49 | <ltsppbot> "alkisg" pasted "environment" (14 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/221
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| 01:49 | <alkisg> redspike: see mine ^
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| 01:50 | redspike: I think you need to run update-locale in the chroot.
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| 01:51 | redspike: Could you also see the file /etc/default/locale in both the server and in the chroot?
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| 01:53 | <redspike> alkisg: only on the server
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| 01:53 | cp when i run update-locale the file come there but its empty
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| 01:54 | <alkisg> For my language, it's: update-locale LANG=el_GR.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=el_GR:el:en_GB:en
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| 01:54 | You need to specify the parameters for yours
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| 01:56 | <nubae> alkisg: was it u that was working on ldap integration with ltsp?
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| 01:56 | <alkisg> Nonono :)
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| 01:56 | Never used or even seen ldap working... :)
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| 01:56 | <nubae> heh, thats quite a definitive statement
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| 01:57 | must have confused with Asmo then
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| 01:57 | I just thought u did something recently that was of interest to me
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| 01:57 | but cant remember what now
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| 01:57 | <alkisg> Getting something like this in ubuntu is my next goal: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta#Account_Management_-_Using_A_Graphical_User_Interface
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| 01:58 | <nubae> looking...
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| 01:58 | <alkisg> ...and right afterwards, adding scripting support for it.
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| 01:59 | <nubae> like?
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| 01:59 | <alkisg> There was some discussion to get it to Ubuntu this summer: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01544.html
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| 02:00 | Scripts? like, select 10 users, go to the "scripts" menu and select "Clear their firefox cache" or lock their panels or clear their thumbnails or copy a file to them... whatever
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| 02:01 | Something like the gimp scripts, these would be "user-manager scripts".
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| 02:01 | <nubae> ok... so u have a set of preinstalled scripts to use on mass users, or u can put in your own
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| 02:01 | something like that?
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| 02:02 | <alkisg> Yes, both of them, and with a searching facility
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| 02:02 | Because I'm thinking there could be hunderds of scripts in there
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| 02:02 | <nubae> from what I can see, the account creation could include LDAP too
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| 02:02 | ideally, yeah, although some are quite unique to user scenario cases
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| 02:03 | <alkisg> I had even started a similar app on my own, before seeing the fedora app, and it was also named users-manager! http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3473/myusersmanagerle6.png
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| 02:03 | <nubae> and it would be nice to have a synch button so it could then be pushed to regular computers or fatclients
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| 02:03 | <alkisg> I'm thinking "import from..." scripts
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| 02:03 | <nubae> the user list I mean
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| 02:04 | ok, so import user list
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| 02:04 | <alkisg> Like, import from a csv, from another ldap server, from a web site or whatever the scripter needs
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| 02:04 | <nubae> and export user list to an ip
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| 02:04 | that would be really nice
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| 02:05 | <alkisg> And if it's script (plugin) based, it'll be easier for maintainance, because different people could work on different scripts
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| 02:05 | <nubae> push user list to LDAP server: some.ip.number
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| 02:05 | <alkisg> E.g. I would make 100 plugins for classroom needs, but nothing for LDAP. You could make 5-6 scripts for LDAP or fat clients
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| 02:05 | <nubae> man would that make life easier for fatclients
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| 02:06 | <alkisg> I'm willing to spend several hours into it, if I can find someone to help me. I don't think I have enough hours to take it on my own.
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| 02:06 | <nubae> well, only thing I ask is u make a nice looking big prominent button that says export users
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| 02:06 | <alkisg> (hours = hours per week)
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| 02:06 | <nubae> I can then tie that in with the script to do it
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| 02:07 | <alkisg> The menus would also be able to be defined by scripts
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| 02:07 | <nubae> well, I have so many users asking me for fatclient now, that I think I could help u
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| 02:07 | <alkisg> So it would be your responsibility to provide the menu name, the icon, and the action
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| 02:07 | <nubae> I need something more visual and foolproof...
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| 02:07 | <alkisg> All in pygtk, so no compilation anywhere
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| 02:07 | I'm downloading F10 now to see it in action! :)
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| 02:08 | <nubae> hmmm, but I already told u the button I want :-p
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| 02:08 | cant u just put it in ;-)
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| 02:08 | <alkisg> Sure... but that would destroy the plugin architecture! :D
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| 02:08 | <nubae> not really... its just an exception
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| 02:09 | albeit a very important one
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| 02:09 | think about it... no other tool does importing and exporting of users in such a nice way
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| 02:09 | the app will make u famous!
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| 02:09 | :p
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| 02:09 | no but seriously... Im willing to help to get that ported to buntu...
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| 02:10 | <alkisg> Sure, but importing from where? There would be an "Import users/groups" menu, but it should be populized by plugins
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| 02:10 | E.g. import from csv => maintained by XYZ
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| 02:10 | Import from LDAP => maintained by nubae
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| 02:10 | <nubae> well... there arent that many ways... its probably easier to give just a few options
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| 02:10 | <alkisg> Import from website users.sch.gr => maintained by alkisg
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| 02:11 | <nubae> import from .passwd, or import from ldap
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| 02:11 | dont think need anything else
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| 02:11 | <alkisg> Import from my joomla db => maintained by asdf
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| 02:11 | <nubae> import from website?
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| 02:11 | <alkisg> Yes, that's what I need.
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| 02:11 | I don't care for any other import option! :)
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| 02:11 | <nubae> hmmm, u might be able to do something with openID there
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| 02:12 | <alkisg> That's why I'm saying it should be plugin based, needs vary a lot
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| 02:12 | No, I couldn't, because I can't control the sch.gr accounts. I only want to duplicate them locally.
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| 02:13 | <nubae> hmmm, maybe... anything is better than nothing right now... but we should prioritize the options
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| 02:13 | I understand u're user case scenario
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| 02:13 | even though its probably a rare one... think most people would import user accounts from other servers
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| 02:14 | anyway, I'm game...
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| 02:14 | <alkisg> csv should always be used as an intermediate step
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| 02:14 | <nubae> or xml
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| 02:14 | <alkisg> E.g. from LDAP or website or whatever to csv => then import it
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| 02:14 | Right, or xml.
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| 02:14 | <nubae> but not from direct user accounts
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| 02:15 | <alkisg> meaning?
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| 02:15 | <nubae> .passwd and .shadow could be copied directly
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| 02:15 | <alkisg> E.g. another plugin would be to merge users from old passwd / shadow files
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| 02:15 | <nubae> right
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| 02:16 | would be nice even to have a dialogue allowing u to choose which users and groups
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| 02:16 | <alkisg> ...and actually, merging would be in the main "import users" function
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| 02:16 | Yes, with lots of dialogs for things that could go wrong (duplicate usernames, existing directories etc)
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| 02:17 | <nubae> oh, and we need a cron to automate if necessary
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| 02:17 | <alkisg> That would be in the main function, not in a plugin
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| 02:17 | ok, lets start from somewhere
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| 02:17 | <nubae> its almost like a user server
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| 02:17 | clonezilla for users and groups
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| 02:17 | <alkisg> sbalneav, Lns and LaserJock were interested in this. Should we talk about it sometime in #edubuntu?
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| 02:18 | <nubae> yeah, when do u wanna do that?
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| 02:18 | <alkisg> I'm leaving for today and I'll be back Sunday evening (our time zone). So lets see if we can find them from Sunday onwards...
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| 02:19 | <nubae> ok... we could probably schedule time via a google calendar
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| 02:19 | so we know when and what people are working on
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| 02:19 | <alkisg> Sure. The first thing would be to make it work for Ubuntu
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| 02:19 | <nubae> so right now, u are downloading the F10 version, right?
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| 02:19 | I'll do the same
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| 02:19 | <alkisg> yes
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| 02:19 | To see it in action
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| 02:20 | Some months later, we may even look for supporting package kit or whatever...
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| 02:20 | <nubae> hopefully, there is source with not too many deps
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| 02:20 | <alkisg> Have a look at the discussion: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01544.html
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| 02:20 | <nubae> well, we can start by making debs and putting them in a PPA
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| 02:20 | <alkisg> It says "simple python script"
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| 02:21 | So we could start by making it run in Ubuntu... :)
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| 02:22 | <nubae> yep.... I wonder why they chose not to go with it?
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| 02:22 | <redspike> alkisg: Xt Warning: Missing charsets in String to FontSet conversion.
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| 02:22 | <alkisg> nubae: Did they? I don't know, we could ask LaserJock to contact them for details
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| 02:22 | <redspike> alkisg: ill get that when i try to runt the applications with when i run i sv_SE :(
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| 02:22 | alkisg: it works local on the server
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| 02:23 | <alkisg> redspike: did you run the update-locale command, and updated the chroot?
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| 02:23 | with ltsp-update-image?
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| 02:24 | nubae: Maybe they didn't find someone to port/maintain it... I was willing to start this from scratch, so now that we have something to begin with, it'll be much easier.
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| 02:25 | <redspike> alkisg: yes :/
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| 02:25 | <alkisg> So now you have an /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/environment file?
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| 02:26 | <redspike> ill think it have some with the fonts todo?
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| 02:26 | <alkisg> Can you see the symbols in _any_ font?
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| 02:26 | <redspike> on the server i can but not on the clients :(
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| 02:27 | <alkisg> So I don't think it has something to do with the fonts, I think your locales aren't correctly installed
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| 02:27 | <redspike> alkisg: in the chroot ?
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| 02:27 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 02:28 | redspike: can you see these symbols in ldm, before the users log in?
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| 02:29 | <nubae> alkisg: well the mail was from June 2008, so obviously they haven't done much to port it
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| 02:29 | <alkisg> You should be able to... that's plain chroot, no server involved
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| 02:29 | <redspike> alkisg: now, in ldm i have english :(
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| 02:29 | <alkisg> redspike: if you try to type the euro character in the username field, can you?
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| 02:30 | (or any other of your local characters)
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| 02:32 | For ldm, I see that an sv.po exists, so you should have and ldm.po for your language in the chroot, and be able to see the text in swedish
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| 02:33 | <redspike> alkisg: character works in ldm
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| 02:33 | <redspike> and in xterminal after i have logged in, but not in that application, when i start it i cant se aao in the grafical interface :(
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| 02:34 | <alkisg> The problem is only on a specific application? !!!
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| 02:34 | I thought you had a general problem...
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| 02:35 | For ldm language, see that you have /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/locale/sv/LC_MESSAGES/ldm.mo
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| 02:35 | <nubae> alkisg: any idea where the source code for the users-manager is?
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| 02:36 | <redspike> alkisg: where is the xorg.conf for the clients? i have found some ppl saded that remove :unscaled from the font can work.
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| 02:36 | <alkisg> nubae: I'll be rebooting to F10, so I'll be able to send it to you in a little while...
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| 02:36 | redspike: intrepid doesn't use a xorg.conf by default
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| 02:36 | <nubae> ah good.. stops me from having to install f10 8)
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| 02:36 | <alkisg> If you want to add one, you can put it in the chroot, and specify X_CONF=path and CONFIGURE_X=true in lts.conf
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| 02:36 | <redspike> alkisg: where can i change the FontPath in X ?
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| 02:36 | <alkisg> Got to go. Bye!
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| 02:37 | <redspike> ok thanx bye
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| 02:37 | <alkisg> Ah, no!
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| 02:37 | I have virtualbox! :D :D :D
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| 02:37 | <nubae> redspike: check the docs, there are lots of switches for X stuff
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| 02:37 | !docs
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| 02:37 | <ltspbot> nubae: "docs" is For the most current documentation, see http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 02:37 | * alkisg slaps himself | |
| 02:37 | * nubae helps alkisg out | |
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| 02:51 | <redspike> nubae: can i move lts.conf to /var/lib/tftp/ltsp/i386 so i dont need to update image everytime i make changes ?
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| 02:52 | <nubae> redspike: absolutely, thats where it should be
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| 02:54 | <redspike> nubae: i dont think it use it :( i add SOUND = N on the first line and restart the client but the soud still work?
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| 02:55 | <alkisg> nubae, http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/system-config-users.tar.gz
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| 02:56 | <nubae> redspike: u need [default] as the first line
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| 02:56 | alkisg: thanks
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| 05:12 | <polytan> hi
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| 05:12 | <polytan> how to use nvidia driver on the thin clien t?
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| 05:12 | in order to have 3D acceleraation
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| 05:14 | <cyberorg> polytan, install nvidia drivers in the chroot
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| 05:14 | <polytan> apt-get iunstall nvidia ?
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| 05:16 | <cyberorg> polytan, yes something like that in the chroot, there should be instructions somewhere how to install packages in chroot
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| 07:34 | <robp2175> My volume very low on thin-clients. Anyone know what the fix is?
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| 08:04 | <robp2175> I have tried changing all volume controls in lts.conf . The pulseaudio volume was already at 100%. gstreamer-properties appeared correct. Any thoughts? Anyone?
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| 08:29 | <robp2175_> My volume very low on thin-clients. Anyone know what the fix is? I have tried changing all volume controls in lts.conf . The pulseaudio volume was already at 100%. gstreamer-properties appeared correct. Any thoughts? Anyone?
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| 08:40 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:43 | <Gadi> !s
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| 08:43 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:47 | <sbalneav> Morning Gadi
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| 08:47 | <Gadi> it is, isnt it?
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| 08:48 | <sbalneav> Hmmm. Trying to learn ratpoison
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| 08:48 | It's being confusing : :)
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| 08:53 | <Gadi> just dont lick it
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| 08:53 | (#1 rule of electrical engineering, and pretty much life as a whole)
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| 09:04 | <sbalneav> Oh, I don't know. I've had some pretty pleasent expericences licking things....
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| 09:05 | Lollipops, salt rims on Caesers, that sort of thing :)
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| 09:06 | * dmaran is amazed he spent 4 hours troubleshooting the "Test" ltsp server and the whole time it was a bum network card | |
| 09:06 | <ogra> frogs ?
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| 09:08 | <sbalneav> No, I've never licked a frog.
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| 09:08 | I've *eaten* frogs legs.
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| 09:08 | Maybe I licked my fingers afterwards. Can't remember.
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| 09:09 | <ogra> heh
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| 09:09 | <sbalneav> I've eaten chocolate covered crickets...
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| 09:09 | Snake...
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| 09:10 | ogra: So, we've got a new lunchcounter/restaurant near us called "Kraut king"
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| 09:10 | <ogra> lol
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> it's been set up by a bavarian immigrant couple.
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| 09:10 | they have flipping AWESOME food.
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| 09:10 | <ogra> selling curry sausage ?
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> What are the little flour dumplings called?
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| 09:11 | <ogra> knödel
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> No, they've got schnitle.
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| 09:11 | yeah, that's it.
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| 09:11 | <ogra> bah, no curry sausage ?
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| 09:11 | then they are not german :P
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| 09:11 | <sbalneav> I had some kind of fried veal cutlet with a paprica sauce, and knodel for lunch the other day.
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| 09:11 | Yum.
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| 09:11 | They had goose too.
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| 09:11 | <cyberorg> Gadi, the students are exploring usbip, it is already in 11.1, will try to figure out how to integrate that in ltsp if possible
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> Every time I eat there, I think of you :)
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| 09:12 | <ogra> that called "zigeunerschitzel" i think
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| 09:12 | *that's
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> What would the curry sausage be called?
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| 09:12 | I'll ask for it the next time I'm there.
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| 09:13 | <ogra> well, curry sausage (currywurst in german)
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| 09:13 | but if they are bavarian centric they might not have it
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| 09:13 | its *the* german food everywhere but in bavaria
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| 09:14 | F-GT has quit IRC | |
| 09:14 | <ogra> (you know i dont consider bavaria germany ;) ... but at least they discovered the concept or democracy last year, so they are improving)
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| 09:14 | <sbalneav> lol
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| 09:14 | <ogra> i'm not kidding
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| 09:14 | :)
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| 09:15 | <sbalneav> What, was a holdout of the third reich still governing bavaria?
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| 09:15 | Maybe that's why they immigrated to canada :)
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| 09:15 | <ogra> after the weimar republic in 1920 they only elcted adolf ... after WW2 they formed their own party that had 70-90% in each election up to last year
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| 09:16 | <sbalneav> Wow
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| 09:16 | <ogra> yep
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| 09:16 | <sbalneav> What was the name of the party? (/me wants to read about this on wikipedia)
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| 09:16 | <ogra> november was significant for bavaria ... there is a second party in power now for the first time of its existence
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| 09:17 | <nubae> they have good beer though
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| 09:17 | :-)
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| 09:19 | <ogra> sbalneav, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria_state_election,_2008
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| 09:19 | sbalneav, FDP ... the liberals
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| 09:21 | though they lost more to the free voters but wouldnt build a coalition with them
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| 09:26 | <dmaran> anyone have an idea why proc wont unmount in the chroot or outside
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| 09:26 | <ogra> are you looking at the right /proc ?
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| 09:27 | <dmaran> yeah, I tried from in the chroot and outside as in the recent email to the list
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| 09:27 | <robp2175_> My volume is very low on thin-clients. Anyone know what the fix is? I have tried changing all volume controls in lts.conf . The pulseaudio volume was already at 100%. gstreamer-properties appeared correct. Any thoughts? Anyone?
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| 09:28 | <sbalneav> robp2175_: What kind of audio hardware do you have?
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| 09:28 | <nubae> thats a common problem, I've never had loud enough sound.... but from laptops adimittedly
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| 09:29 | <ogra> didnt Gadi add a fix to adjust that via lts.conf ?
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| 09:30 | <nubae> yeah
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| 09:30 | still not loud enough though
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| 09:30 | <dmaran> ogra: always says it is busy even after it is done updating I cannot use -f either
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| 09:30 | <robp2175_> none in the server. It is pulseaudio sound server. I am not sure exactly what the thin client uses. The documentation stinks. It is an HP e90
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| 09:30 | <Gadi> set: VOLUME=100
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> VOLUME, HEADPHONE_VOLUME, PCM_VOLUME, CD_VOLUME, FRONT_VOLUME in lts.conf
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| 09:31 | <robp2175_> already set volume to 100, no worky
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| 09:31 | yup, set them all to 100
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| 09:31 | <Gadi> robp2175_: get a shell on the client
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| 09:31 | and do alsamixer
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| 09:31 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
| 09:31 | <Gadi> see if there are some additional controls
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| 09:31 | at the end
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| 09:31 | * Gadi has come across some chipsets (such as VIA) with extended controls that need to be set, asa well | |
| 09:32 | <robp2175_> alsamixer also set to 100
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| 09:32 | <Gadi> dont look at volume
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| 09:32 | press right arrow to the end
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| 09:32 | see if there is: VIA_***
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| 09:32 | or some other channel there
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| 09:32 | <robp2175_> no via, just master
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| 09:33 | <dmaran> ltsp-upate-image cannot umount proc either so I have to reboot in order to rebuild the image
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| 09:33 | !fail
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| 09:33 | <ltspbot> dmaran: Error: "fail" is not a valid command.
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> robp2175_: are all of the output channels at 100% on the client?
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| 09:35 | <robp2175_> Yes all 100%
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> sounds like a hardware problem
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| 09:35 | <robp2175_> Tried two different clients. Both completely different hardware.
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> scp a wav file to the client from the server
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| 09:35 | alkisg has quit IRC | |
| 09:36 | <Gadi> and try playing it on the client
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| 09:36 | <robp2175_> Tried fedora 9 with ltsp 5 and sound worked perfectly, but had other issues that made me decide to try fedora 10 with ltsp 5
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| 09:36 | <ogra> dmaran, lsof
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| 09:36 | have a look what keeps it open, but its unusual, i have never seen that
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> robp2175_: maybe warren has an idea of what changed
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| 09:38 | <dmaran> ogra: I will the next time I am in the chroot
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| 09:38 | it is building now
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| 09:38 | after a reboot
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| 09:39 | <robp2175_> how would i get in touch with warren
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| 09:40 | <ogra> just hang around here
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| 09:40 | he is usually around (no idea why he isnt right now though)
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| 09:40 | <robp2175_> OK will do
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| 09:40 | thanks for the help
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| 09:52 | <dmaran> built fine after reboot
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| 10:28 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi - ping
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| 10:34 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: one sec - ph call
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| 10:39 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: hit me
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| 10:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> uno momento
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| 10:40 | ok
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| 10:40 | gadi: ok, good to go
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| 10:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> I have been trying to use the X_VIRTUAL = "xxxx xxxxx" lts.conf setting in F10 for a bit now
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| 10:41 | I am currently using 5.1.49 which I got from http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/ltsp/
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| 10:41 | and I'm using that version because 5.1.51 is kind of green
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| 10:42 | I am seeing no results from X_VIRTUAL with both versions
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| 10:42 | * _UsUrPeR_ gasps for breath | |
| 10:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> I also want a pony ;)
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| 10:43 | <Gadi> and have you checked the xorg log file and /var/run/ltsp_xorg.conf
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| 10:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> oh, RIGHT
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| 10:43 | * _UsUrPeR_ does that now | |
| 10:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> FYI: SCREEN_0X = shell does not presently work in 5.1.51
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| 10:44 | <Gadi> /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 10:44 | actually
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| 10:44 | robp2175_ has quit IRC | |
| 10:44 | <Gadi> interesting
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| 10:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok. Looking in the file now, I see a virtual setting of 3360 1050
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| 10:44 | unfortunately, xrandr sees it differently
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| 10:44 | :(
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| 10:46 | if I try something akin to xrandr --output VGA --left-of TMDS-1, I get an error that says "xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1680x1680 (desired size 3360x1050)
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| 10:46 | "
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| 10:51 | <dberkholz> apparently it's not listening to your virtual
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| 10:51 | shrek has quit IRC | |
| 10:54 | <Gadi> yeah - you probably cannot get the video driver to set that
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| 10:54 | try increasing the video memory in the bios
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| 10:54 | or check the specs on the video chipset
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| 10:58 | sepski has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:58 | <dberkholz> i'd check the X log to see if it says anything about virtual
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| 11:01 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: same chipset works properly in ubuntu 8.04 & 8.10. It also works properly if I use an xorg.conf
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| 11:01 | except for it doesn't re-position the screens
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| 11:02 | <Gadi> does your xorg.conf just have the Virtual line?
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| 11:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> yes
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| 11:02 | <Gadi> so, it looks the same as /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf?
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| 11:02 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: lemme pastebin it
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| 11:03 | <Gadi> okey dokey
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| 11:04 | <ltsppbot> Someone pasted "Section "Monitor" Identifier "" (38 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/222
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| 11:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> whoops. forgot the name :)
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| 11:06 | <Gadi> can you paste the ltsp-xorg.conf too?
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| 11:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> gasi: ok
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| 11:06 | err gadi
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| 11:06 | robp2175 has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:07 | <Gadi> and the xorg log file, while you're at it
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| 11:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, this will take a second :/
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| 11:07 | <Gadi> ok - just scp them to the server
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| 11:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> doing that
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| 11:09 | it was in the bios though
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| 11:12 | <kc8pxy> how do i keep my client view from being oversized?? my vbox client is sizing beyond the lcd's res.
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| 11:12 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "for Gadi: Xorg.1.log" (3063 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/223
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| 11:13 | "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "ltsp-xorg.conf" (4 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/224
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| 11:21 | <sbalneav> kc8pxy: vbox? That a hardware client, or virtualbox?
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: try this:
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> edit: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d/XS85-virtual
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| 11:29 | and change "screen_hacks" to "display_hacks"
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| 11:29 | in both places where it occurs
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| 11:30 | * Gadi wonders if the intel driver only honors the VIRTUAL argument when it is in the display subsection | |
| 11:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> rgr, done
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| 11:30 | * _UsUrPeR_ will test that in a bit | |
| 11:31 | <Gadi> (it has required some trial/error with this new piece-meal xorg to know what exactly is *necessary)
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| 11:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> the "Ignore" "True" is necessary for sure.
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| 11:36 | for LVDS
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: cant you turn it off with xrandr?
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| 11:59 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: like: xrandr --output LVDS --off
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| 11:59 | ?
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| 12:00 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: yes. Is there an X_IGNORE_OUTPUT function?
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| 12:00 | gadi: taht does, indeed, work
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| 12:00 | taht = that
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| 12:00 | <Gadi> ah, so do this:
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| 12:00 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:00 | <Gadi> XRANDR_OUTPUT_01 = "VGA"
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| 12:01 | XRANDR_OUTPUT_02 = "TMDS-1 --left-of VGA"
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| 12:01 | XRANDR_OUTPUT_03 = "LVDS --off"
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| 12:03 | <warren> Gadi: 01 in that case is only a label?
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| 12:03 | <ogra> warren, oh, does fedora use sendsigs.omit ?
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| 12:03 | <warren> ogra: I never heard of that
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| 12:04 | ogra: no file of that name
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| 12:04 | ogra: what does it do?
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| 12:04 | <ogra> warren, its prevents processes from being killed on shutdown
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| 12:04 | <warren> ogra: killed by what?
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| 12:04 | <ogra> look in /etc/init.d/sendsigs
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| 12:04 | <warren> we don't have /etc/init.d/sendsigs
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| 12:04 | ogra: our shutdown uses killall5
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| 12:04 | <ogra> there is /lib/init/rw/sendsigs.omit.d/ and /var/run/sendsigs.omit
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| 12:05 | right, thats what sendsigs executes
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| 12:05 | * ogra checks where /etc/init.d/sendsigs lives in ... i would have assumed usplash | |
| 12:05 | <warren> you have the same killall5 command as us?
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| 12:05 | we have no usplash
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| 12:05 | <ogra> yes
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| 12:05 | <Gadi> warren: _01 .. _03 are for different outputs
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| 12:05 | <ogra> err, upstrat
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| 12:06 | <warren> ogra: nothing named sendsigs
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| 12:06 | <Gadi> warren: so, if you wanted, say 1024x763 on output 2, you can: XRANDR_MODE_02=1024x768
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| 12:06 | <warren> Gadi: oh
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| 12:06 | <Gadi> which corresponds to XRANDR_OUTPUT_02
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| 12:06 | <ogra> ogra@osiris:/var/build$ dpkg -S /etc/init.d/sendsigs
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| 12:06 | initscripts: /etc/init.d/sendsigs
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| 12:06 | ah, not upstart
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| 12:07 | <warren> ogra: aside from nbd-client what else do you typically omit?
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| 12:07 | <ogra> i didnt omit anything yet (i wasnt aware you guys just dropped poweroff -fp)
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| 12:10 | but we surely have a mechanism for it in ubuntu
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| 12:10 | and i would expect fedora actually to have something alike
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| 12:13 | <warren> I was told no.
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| 12:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: the display hacks change seemed to produce results...
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| 12:31 | give me a second to see what's going on though :)
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| 12:31 | <Gadi> ok
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| 12:35 | warren has quit IRC | |
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| 12:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: X_VIRTUAL = "xxxx xxxx" causes my USB keyboard to stop working?
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| 12:41 | though it appears to work :)
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| 12:41 | <Gadi> cool
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| 12:42 | did you add the ignore lvds stuff?
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| 12:42 | actually
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| 12:43 | can you try changing display_hacks back to screen_hacks and see if it works
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| 12:43 | * Gadi wonders if the magic was in your other changes | |
| 12:43 | <Gadi> since X_VIRTUAL was working for stgraber on intel chipset as-is
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| 12:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> I have noticed in XS20-intel-virtual-hack that X_VIRTUAL_AUTO = true
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| 12:44 | is this something that would affect my settings?
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| 12:45 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:46 | * warren found a problem with ALSA | |
| 12:46 | <warren> ltsp-trunk/client/initscripts/ltsp-init-common
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| 12:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> p.s. by "it works" I meant that the virtual display appeared to work, making one monitor appear half-wat. the XRANDR outputs don't seem to be taking effect as of yet...
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| 12:46 | <warren> amixer used to work on the sound devices directly, bringing up the default volume
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| 12:46 | but then we added alsa-plugins-pulseaudio to the chroot
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| 12:46 | which redirected the default alsa device away from hardware
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| 12:47 | so we need to add -c0 to the amixer command line
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| 12:48 | <johnny> so.. since sun bought virtualbox, does usb support come in the free version now?
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| 12:48 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: X_VIRTUAL_AUTO only affects something if you have XRANDR_MODE set
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| 12:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: all changes disappeared when I changed from display to screen_hacks
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| 12:49 | <Gadi> as in the effect of the changes
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| 12:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: actually, it was just the virtual effects. The xrandr has not yet worked for me
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| 12:50 | <Gadi> ok
| |
| 12:50 | so, it sounds like we *should* change scrreen to display upstream'
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| 12:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> this is weird. It freezes keyboard input at the login screen
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| 12:52 | <Gadi> warren: sounds good - are there any negative effects to that change?
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| 12:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> I am able to get as far as entering a few chars in the username, then the keyboard stops.
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| 12:52 | mouse still works though
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| 12:52 | <warren> Gadi: it will suddenly begin working again, making it a very loud surprise
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| 12:52 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 12:53 | I'd say push it
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| 12:53 | <warren> Gadi: it worked in the past prior to us making localapps work
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| 12:53 | <Gadi> we should just stop making things work
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| 12:55 | <warren> I'm adjusting the default for master from 100 to 90
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| 12:56 | <robp2175> warren. How long before the fix for sound will be available?
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| 12:56 | <johnny> hmm.. we need some sort of test suite
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| 12:57 | <warren> robp2175: later today
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| 12:57 | <robp2175> I appreciate the very quick attention to the issue. Truly
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| 12:59 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:59 | <Gadi> robp2175: you can edit /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common
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| 12:59 | and add the -c0 to each amixer command
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| 13:00 | <robp2175> Thats easy, sorry, I came in very late in the conversation and only read he had discovered and planned to fix the problem. Thanks Gadi
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| 13:00 | <warren> robp2175: beware, it will triple or quadruple the software volme
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| 13:01 | <robp2175> Thanks for the warning. I'd rather not lose my hearing. Would make the sound issue moot though.
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| 13:01 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: is the XRANDR_OUTPUT = "xxxx xxxx" stuff supposed to be showing in the client's /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
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| 13:01 | ?
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| 13:01 | <Gadi> nope
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| 13:02 | <warren> robp2175: it sounded like somebody else on the list had driver issues though
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| 13:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> /var/log/Xorg.1.log?
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| 13:02 | <Gadi> it executes the xrandr command
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| 13:02 | <warren> robp2175: you are referring to k12osn?
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| 13:02 | <Gadi> upon initialization of X
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| 13:03 | _UsUrPeR_: xinitrc.d/I10-xrandr
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| 13:05 | <robp2175> fedora 10 ltsp5
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| 13:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: ok, I'm in there
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| 13:06 | on the client
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| 13:07 | <warren> Gadi: are you setup to test the ltsp-trunk change I pushed? I'm pretty sure that works on all distros, but we should test it.
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| 13:07 | <Gadi> I am not atm
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| 13:09 | <warren> hmm
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| 13:09 | Ryan52's change to ldminfod crashes.
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| 13:10 | language:nb_NO.UTF-8
| |
| 13:10 | Traceback (most recent call last):
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| 13:10 | File "/usr/sbin/ldminfod", line 237, in <module>
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| 13:10 | print lang_with_name(lang)
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| 13:10 | UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe5' in position 23: ordinal not in range(128)
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| 13:10 | din_os has left #ltsp | |
| 13:10 | <ogra> uuh
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| 13:10 | that cries for utf8-ification
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| 13:10 | <warren> ogra: of what
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| 13:10 | <ogra> the string handed over
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| 13:11 | presumably "lang"
| |
| 13:12 | <warren> hmm... it crashes when I run it via nc
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| 13:12 | but not on the terminal
| |
| 13:13 | <ogra> does nc mangle the 8bit chars ?
| |
| 13:15 | <warren> nc is only dumping raw bits
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| 13:15 | <ogra> i guess its environment is different though
| |
| 13:17 | but still, properly converting the string in the code should suffice ... "'ascii' codec" is surely not what you want ldminfod to run with
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| 13:17 | din_os has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:17 | * ogra goes to look at the code | |
| 13:18 | <vagrantc> warren: we've seen it crash with output re-directed via | or > and presumably >>
| |
| 13:18 | though it doesn't actually crash
| |
| 13:18 | it just spits out a traceback and continues on, in my experience...
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| 13:19 | though i'm not getting the traceback when run on debian, only on fedora...
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| 13:21 | <warren> vagrantc: it is always crashing on the same language here.
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| 13:21 | vagrantc: language:nb_NO.UTF-8
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| 13:22 | vagrantc: and it is failing immediately after the crash, so it never gets to session: lines
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| 13:22 | <ogra> no, its crashing on the next one
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| 13:22 | <warren> ogra: you sure?
| |
| 13:22 | <ogra> at least thats how i read your traceback above
| |
| 13:22 | it spits out language:nb_NO.UTF-8 and then runs into probs
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| 13:22 | <warren> it fails to print out the corresponding language-with-name: line
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| 13:23 | <vagrantc> which would be the nb_NO line...
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| 13:23 | <ogra> right
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| 13:23 | <vagrantc> but there are *two* nb_NO lines
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| 13:23 | <ogra> and contain norwegian umlauts
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| 13:23 | <warren> huh?
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| 13:23 | <vagrantc> i get it with nb_NO.UTF-8 enabled as well
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| 13:23 | <ogra> you need to sanitize the string to proper utf 8
| |
| 13:24 | <vagrantc> the question is... which string.
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| 13:24 | <ogra> proper would be to do that with all of them :)
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| 13:25 | <warren> ldminfod crashes when redirected, but works when not.
| |
| 13:26 | <vagrantc> yes.
| |
| 13:26 | * ogra points at http://www.reportlab.com/i18n/python_unicode_tutorial.html | |
| 13:27 | <vagrantc> i've read half a dozen unicode tutorials, and still haven't really figured out what actually needs to be unicodified.
| |
| 13:27 | <ogra> you want to change: print lang_with_name(lang) to be: print lang_with_name(lang.encode('utf8'))
| |
| 13:27 | <warren> Perhaps we should approach this in a different way.
| |
| 13:28 | My ldminfod without the crash transmits 18041 bytes, and reads a TON of files taking half a second every time it is run.
| |
| 13:28 | <vagrantc> ogra: no, that would just encode the locale string to UTF-8
| |
| 13:28 | <warren> Ryan52 looked into putting these translations in the chroot instead and transmitting only the LANG codes
| |
| 13:28 | but the .mo files alone would have been 3MB due to binary overhead
| |
| 13:29 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, that should be done with all strings actually ... and best in a function instead of touching all strings
| |
| 13:29 | <warren> I think maybe we should export this into a flat text file of similar syntax to ldminfod and parse it in the chroot based upon language codes given by ldminfod
| |
| 13:29 | That would make ldminfod faster and simpler.
| |
| 13:29 | and the flat file would be less than 16KB
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| 13:29 | <vagrantc> we don't need to UTF-8 encode nb_NO.UTF-8
| |
| 13:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, sane py code it to properly encode all strings you print out
| |
| 13:31 | <warren> any other changes people want to ltsp-trunk?
| |
| 13:31 | <vagrantc> so the real mystery is why UTF-8 encoding only issues a traceback if run through a pipe or re-directed or some such.
| |
| 13:31 | works totally fine if run manually without any redirects or pipes.
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| 13:31 | <johnny> this won't be necessary with python 2.6 will it?
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| 13:32 | <ogra> i dont think so
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| 13:32 | <warren> vagrantc: I haven't been completely happy about this approach because it takes much longer on the server, adding half a second before hte login screen can pop-up
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| 13:32 | <ogra> warren, if you have a million locales
| |
| 13:32 | <warren> vagrantc: how do you feel about this alternative I suggested above?
| |
| 13:32 | <vagrantc> warren: it's going to take a long time on the client, too.
| |
| 13:32 | <warren> vagrantc: no it wont. It has to read only a single 16KB file
| |
| 13:33 | <vagrantc> warren: how does it generate that file?
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| 13:33 | <warren> vagrantc: during build of the ldm package.
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| 13:33 | <vagrantc> warren: so if you have a server with a different set of supported languages?
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| 13:33 | <ogra> warren, mimicing old gdm behavior ?
| |
| 13:33 | <vagrantc> these are server-specific settings. just like /etc/X11/Xsesssion vs. /etc/X11/xinit/Xsession
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| 13:34 | <ogra> vagrantc, he means to keep the lang->printout conversion list in ldm
| |
| 13:34 | <warren> vagrantc: ldminfod hands only lang codes to ldm client
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| 13:34 | <vagrantc> ogra: yes, i know.
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| 13:34 | <warren> vagrantc: ldm client looks at its own flat text file to see if it has translations for the given lang codes.
| |
| 13:34 | <vagrantc> and if it doesn't?
| |
| 13:34 | <ogra> so ldminfo would just work like before and the logic goes into ldm
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| 13:35 | <warren> Ryan52 looked into doing this a different way yesterday, but it was not good because we were using .mo files that ended up 3MB in size due to a large number (one per language) and binary overhead.
| |
| 13:35 | <ogra> if you steal gdm's file it should be relatively safe
| |
| 13:35 | to not miss any langs
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| 13:36 | <warren> ldminfod's current output proves that ldm need only grow by like 16KB to have all the strings we need
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| 13:36 | less than 16KB
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| 13:38 | <vagrantc> ok, let's go with something like that, with the addition of an override file for missing or incorrect languages ... i.e. we build the list at install time, check for presence of an override file, and use those if present, falling back to the build-time file.
| |
| 13:38 | <warren> huh?
| |
| 13:39 | override in what direction?
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| 13:39 | <ogra> add more langs
| |
| 13:39 | <vagrantc> warren: well, say you build your list and it's missing a language. or the translation for a language is wrong. or the translation for a language is politically unacceptible for a particular deployment. we need to override the built-in list.
| |
| 13:39 | <ogra> though in ubuntu i know we have translations and locales for 124 languages and gdm has a list of them ... easiest would be to steal from the gdm source
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| 13:40 | <vagrantc> sane defaults with possibility to override the default when it's wrong.
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| 13:40 | <warren> hmm, yes probably best to self contain our own list of lang codes and traslations.
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| 13:40 | overrides makes this more complicated and confusing
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| 13:40 | Let's just self contain a copy, with instructions how to grab a new update of it.
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| 13:41 | <vagrantc> and that update doesn't get overridden by package upgrades?
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| 13:41 | there needs to be some sort of override mechanism...
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| 13:41 | <warren> ldm has its own list in its own source code
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| 13:41 | <vagrantc> weather it's override per line, or override the whole file...
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| 13:42 | <warren> Override it in your own build if you need to.
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| 13:42 | We really don't need more complication than this.
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| 13:42 | <vagrantc> that entirely misses the point of my concern.
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| 13:43 | <warren> you mean a user should be able to override without building it?
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| 13:43 | <vagrantc> a system administrator, yes.
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| 13:44 | say, an override in /etc/ldm/languages
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| 13:44 | <ogra> so you fear admins might *invent* new locales ?
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| 13:44 | <warren> ogra: does that even work? glibc has to define a locale I thought.
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| 13:44 | <ogra> you should know how many locales are available in your distro
| |
| 13:44 | warren, right
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| 13:44 | <vagrantc> ogra: no, but new locales crop up now and again. you don't have the same locale list you did 5 years ago.
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| 13:45 | and the translation for some locales are politically charged...
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| 13:45 | <ogra> but you wont forward port
| |
| 13:45 | or do you suddenly plan to ?
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| 13:45 | <vagrantc> i.e. in some particular country, factionA calls the language FOO and factionB calls it BAR.
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| 13:45 | <ogra> if you take todays locale list it will work for the past ten releases
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| 13:45 | <warren> vagrantc: does gdm provide a way to override this without rebuilding it?
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| 13:46 | <ogra> no
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| 13:46 | it even has a hardcoded list
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> i've raised a concern. i'm done.
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| 13:46 | <warren> I deny the existence of your faction.
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| 13:46 | =P
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| 13:46 | <vagrantc> yes, i noticed.
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| 13:47 | <ogra> /etc/gdm/locale.conf
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| 13:47 | <warren> vagrantc: It is a valid concern, however the far more widespread equivalents of this don't support that corner case. Should we complicate our software to do so?
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| 13:47 | <ogra> thats the mapping file
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| 13:47 | not sure the new one still has it
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| 13:47 | ogra@osiris:/var/build$ wc -l /etc/gdm/locale.conf
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| 13:47 | 397 /etc/gdm/locale.conf
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| 13:47 | <vagrantc> by putting it in /etc, it's configurable by the local administrator...
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| 13:48 | <ogra> #
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| 13:48 | # This is similar to a locale.alias file, but is not one. This file was
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| 13:48 | # autogenerated from the GNU libc locales source, with some editing.
| |
| 13:48 | #
| |
| 13:48 | <vagrantc> that would be sufficient for me.
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| 13:48 | <ogra> thats the header
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| 13:48 | so it should cover all currently possible locales libc can support
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| 13:48 | <vagrantc> at least, i know debian has semi-same mechanisms for dealing with changes to files in /etc
| |
| 13:48 | <ogra> given that you wont forward-port that should be totally safe
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| 13:48 | <warren> vagrantc: I suppose it wouldn't be hard to support after we have the proposed functionality implemented... but I am not certain that it should be supported. Let's get more opinions.
| |
| 13:48 | <_UsUrPeR_> trying to allow ssh into an F10 client, but it's saying that /etc/ssh/* is locked.
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| 13:49 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: locked in what way?
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| 13:49 | <ogra> vagrantc, you will never support more locales than libc can define
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| 13:49 | there is no point making it configurable
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> ogra: but it's easy to rename a language with the same locale.
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| 13:49 | <_UsUrPeR_> trying to run /etc/init.d/sshd start gives error: starting sshd: /etc/ssh/sshd_config: permission denied
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> or fix a typo in a language...
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| 13:50 | <ogra> without renaming it in libc ?
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| 13:50 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 13:50 | <ogra> i doubt that
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| 13:50 | <warren> en_US English (Sovereign Dictatorship of Warren)
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| 13:50 | <vagrantc> you display to the user FOO, the locale is still ee_FF
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| 13:50 | <ogra> you would do the fix in the translation to user foo's lang
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| 13:51 | not in the actual source file
| |
| 13:51 | which needs a rebuild anyway, since you need a new .mo file
| |
| 13:51 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: in /etc/ssh/* on client, all files are inaccessible
| |
| 13:51 | can't more/less/vi
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| 13:51 | <warren> ogra: this proposed way of lang code to strings displayed in ldm wouldn't use .mo
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| 13:51 | <ogra> oh, why ?
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| 13:52 | <warren> ogra: Ryan52 tried that earlier, it went from 16KB in total to over 3MB
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| 13:52 | <ogra> on disk
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| 13:52 | <warren> yes
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| 13:52 | <ogra> in ram you only have the translation for $LANG
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| 13:52 | who cares about diskspace
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> warren: exactly!
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| 13:52 | en_US Cascadian (Peoples Autonomous Zone of Cascadian)
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| 13:52 | <ogra> and whats 3M
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> you have to pull it over the network...
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| 13:52 | <warren> 16KB vs 3MB is huge
| |
| 13:52 | <vagrantc> downloading 16K vs. 3MB is quite possibly significant on a large network of thin clients
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| 13:53 | <warren> plus reading a single 16KB file is faster than reading many .mo files
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| 13:53 | <ogra> many ???
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| 13:53 | <warren> It isn't a single 3MB file
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| 13:53 | <ogra> why would you read any .mo file thats not for $LANG ??
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| 13:53 | <warren> ogra: it became huge in aggregate because each .mo file is a minimum of 4KB binary up to 48KB and there are many.
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| 13:54 | ogra: because ldm now displays the language name in its own localized language
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| 13:54 | <ogra> ogra@osiris:/var/build$ ls -lh /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/gdm.mo
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| 13:54 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 113K 2008-11-14 02:15 /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/gdm.mo
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| 13:58 | <warren> vagrantc: so you like this new idea?
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| 13:58 | <vagrantc> warren: build the list, at build time, stick the file in /etc. works for me.
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| 13:59 | <warren> vagrantc: where in /etc/
| |
| 13:59 | * ogra would just mimic gdm | |
| 13:59 | <warren> vagrantc: I personally will stick it wherever as long as it is LSB compliant, however I will not package the ability to override it because I think it is useless.
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| 13:59 | <ogra> so /etc/ldm/locale.conf
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| 13:59 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, that sounds good enough.
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| 14:00 | <warren> go ahead and add the ability to upstream code
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| 14:00 | i just wont use it
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| 14:00 | <vagrantc> warren: i'd rather see it in /usr/share with the possibility of an override in /etc, but you think that is useless.
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| 14:00 | <warren> vagrantc: I would prefer /usr/share for the packaged version, and it can go ahead and check for the existence of /etc/something
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| 14:00 | <vagrantc> warren: that sounds reasonable.
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| 14:01 | <Gadi> ok, now repeat the debate in the 200+ other languages
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| 14:01 | go
| |
| 14:01 | <cliebow> ru fdhr trh
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| 14:02 | <ogra> Gadi, forst *you* generate a .mo file for each ... we'll paste it in there
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| 14:02 | <warren> en_cliebow
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| 14:02 | <cliebow> 8~)
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| 14:02 | <warren> en_cliebow.utf-8
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> there goes ogra - talking to himself again...
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| 14:02 | ;)
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| 14:02 | <cliebow> finally someone Understands me
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| 14:02 | <warren> My keyboard for that language has 500 buttons.
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| 14:02 | <ogra> :P
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| 14:03 | <robp2175> warren. FYI. Audio works perfect now. Thanks
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| 14:06 | <warren> robp2175: I didn't even push a fix yet
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| 14:06 | robp2175: you're hearing things =)
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| 14:07 | <ogra> can you make sure it doesnt break on other distros first ?
| |
| 14:07 | <warren> ogra: I talked with upstream ALSA and they said -c0 should always work.
| |
| 14:07 | * ogra isnt sure stgraber included the alsa to pulse plugin | |
| 14:07 | <ogra> warren, i thought it was depending on the plugin
| |
| 14:07 | <warren> ogra: no
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| 14:07 | <ogra> ah, fine then
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| 14:08 | <warren> ogra: if the plugin is installed in the chroot or not, -c0 always points at the hardware
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| 14:08 | <ogra> good
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| 14:12 | <warren> vagrantc: hmm, copying the source from gdm or iso-codes would add several megabytes of mostly unneeded strings to ldm source.
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| 14:12 | <ogra> which source exactly ?
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| 14:12 | <robp2175> warren Gadi told me how to fix the file manually
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| 14:13 | ltsp-init-common
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| 14:13 | <ogra> warren, only /etc/gdm/locale.conf ?
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| 14:13 | <warren> ogra: I don't have that file, can you paste it?
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| 14:13 | <ogra> sure
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| 14:13 | <vagrantc> warren: build dependencies?
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| 14:14 | <warren> vagrantc: so yes, I'm thinking to build require iso-codes and parse it during ldm build, dumping to our text file to include in the ldm binary package.
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| 14:14 | <ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "locale.conf" (397 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/225
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| 14:14 | <warren> vagrantc: then add your optional override file support, if exists then do it
| |
| 14:14 | <vagrantc> warren: sounds reasonable to me.
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| 14:15 | <warren> ogra: insufficient, lacks localized names
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| 14:15 | <ogra> warren, you can even wipe all the .UTF-8 lines and just go with the first nn_NN part
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| 14:15 | give it to the translators :)
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| 14:15 | <vagrantc> don't forget esperonto :)
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| 14:15 | which has no country.
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| 14:15 | <warren> ogra: we already have iso-codes with this localized, we can auto-generate from it.
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| 14:16 | <ogra> well, but at the cost of several MB
| |
| 14:16 | <vagrantc> to the build dependencies.
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| 14:16 | <warren> ogra: no
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| 14:17 | ogra: instead of generating our own .mo files we dump only the strings we want into a single text file
| |
| 14:17 | ogra: 16KB vs 3MB
| |
| 14:19 | <ogra> warren, well, i meant give that file to the translators :) not parse it through gettext ...
| |
| 14:19 | but if you can generate something thats indeed easier
| |
| 14:19 | <warren> ogra: why not rely on someone else who already did the work?
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| 14:19 | <ogra> thats what i said :)
| |
| 14:19 | if you can generate something similar, doit :)
| |
| 14:20 | though i doubt iso-codes covers all ubuntu languages
| |
| 14:20 | we have a lot
| |
| 14:20 | but i'm fine omitting the corner cases
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| 14:20 | unless someone complains
| |
| 14:22 | ogra@osiris:/var/build$ apt-cache search language-pack base|grep -c base
| |
| 14:22 | 458
| |
| 14:23 | oh
| |
| 14:23 | ogra@osiris:/var/build$ apt-cache search language-pack base|grep -v kde|grep -v gnome|grep -c base
| |
| 14:23 | 156
| |
| 14:23 | thats more like it :)
| |
| 14:24 | how do you generate the iso-codes list so i can compare ?
| |
| 14:24 | <warren> uh
| |
| 14:25 | I'm not really sure how it works.
| |
| 14:25 | ogra: iso also provides us a measure of plausible deniability. if someone blames us, we can say "the international standards organization" did it.
| |
| 14:25 | <ogra> lol
| |
| 14:25 | <warren> I'm not kidding, this has been useful in the past.
| |
| 14:25 | <big scary government>
| |
| 14:26 | <ogra> well, my concern is rather that ubuntu might have langs not covered in the iso list
| |
| 14:26 | like xhosa ... or zulu
| |
| 14:26 | <warren> Then fix it in iso-codes?
| |
| 14:26 | it should be fixed upstream anyway
| |
| 14:27 | * ogra wonders what Oromo is :) | |
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| 14:29 | <warren> ogra: are you in favor of this new proposal?
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| 14:29 | <ogra> yes, fine with me
| |
| 14:30 | lol
| |
| 14:31 | we have langpacks for "French, Middle (ca. 1400-1600)" and "Greek, Ancient (to 1453)"
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's in there.
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| 14:32 | <ogra> Interlingua ?
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> two variations
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| 14:32 | <ogra> is that the new esperanto ?
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> no idea
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| 14:33 | <warren> Broken English is the new esperanto
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| 14:33 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 14:33 | hey and i wasnt aware we have actual latin
| |
| 14:33 | <vagrantc> looks like 486 languages defined in iso_639.xml
| |
| 14:34 | <ogra> ah, that should cover all i guess
| |
| 14:34 | <vagrantc> granted, many of them are variations on a theme, but i think it's reasonable to say that covers a lot.
| |
| 14:35 | <warren> posted to ltsp-devel
| |
| 14:36 | <ogra> does it have Klingon ?
| |
| 14:36 | <vagrantc> wow. Gwich'in.
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| 14:36 | <ogra> we seem to have a langpack for that
| |
| 14:36 | <vagrantc> name="Klingon; tlhIngan-Hol" />
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| 14:37 | one of the languages is, however: name="No linguistic content; Not applicable" />
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| 14:39 | <warren> vagrantc: is that body language? =)
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> the whole issue around political language distinctions... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_language
| |
| 14:41 | at freegeek we get people who insist they speak Burmese, and others who speak Myanmar. and refuse to speak with one another.
| |
| 14:41 | linguists cannot distinguish the two. political distinctions in language names.
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| 14:42 | <vagrantc> something similar with some nepali languages and such, too.
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| 14:43 | <warren> vagrantc: English speakers refuse to talk to each other too
| |
| 14:43 | "Those damn liberal hippies."
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| 14:43 | "Those damn conservatives."
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| 14:44 | <vagrantc> and sometimes even say "those people don't even speak english"
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| 14:46 | <vagrantc> but that's different than insisting they cannot speak with someone because they speak a different language, when there is no lingustic difference. not even dialect.
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| 15:26 | <Guaraldo> !seen jammcq?
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| 15:26 | <ltspbot> Guaraldo: I have not seen jammcq?.
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| 15:26 | <Guaraldo> !seen jammcq
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| 15:26 | <ltspbot> Guaraldo: jammcq was last seen in #ltsp 6 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <jammcq> way cool stuff
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| 15:35 | <warren> hmm, has anyone seen ldm segfault in recent memory?
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| 15:35 | It used to here... but I don't see it anymore
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| 15:36 | oh
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| 15:36 | I think that was the race condition
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| 15:36 | with X starting
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| 15:38 | <Guaraldo> warren: :-P
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| 15:50 | * ogra only has good memories of ldm :) | |
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| 16:30 | <warren> vagrantc: ogra: stgraber: I'm tagging ltsp-trunk again.
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| 16:31 | <ogra> feel free ... though dont we slowly run our of version numbers ? :P
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| 16:31 | <warren> ogra: I look forward to 5.1.472
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| 16:31 | * vagrantc hopes 5.2 comes out first | |
| 16:32 | <vagrantc> didn't we even talk about doing a 5.2 release sometime this month?
| |
| 16:32 | <ogra> \o/
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| 16:32 | <warren> vagrantc: if so, let's agree on a feature freeze...
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| 16:32 | vagrantc: after we finally nail down a ldm localization plan that everyone is happy with
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> ldm is it's own project ... probably won't require changes to ltsp.
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| 16:42 | * Guaraldo can work on ldm translation... | |
| 16:42 | <Guaraldo> to pt_BR
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| 16:42 | :-D
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| 16:43 | Guaraldo has quit IRC | |
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| 17:41 | Gadi has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:42 | <Gadi> evening, all
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| 17:43 | fyi: I'm hacking on ltsp-genmenu a bit more so that it doesn't write into the user homedir at all
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| 17:43 | if it works, I'd like to push it before everyone gets too comfy with the current ltsp-genmenu approach
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| 17:44 | <vagrantc> Gadi: YAY
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| 17:44 | <Gadi> basically, it will put the files in the server's /tmp directory (within a mktemp dir) and set XDG_DATA_DIRS upon ldm login
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| 17:45 | based upon suggestions from alkisg and nubae
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| 17:45 | <vagrantc> oh, fun!
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| 17:45 | <Gadi> that way, if it should fail to cleanup, it should not impact the homedirs or concurrent sessions from multiple places or anything
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> excellent
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| 17:46 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 17:46 | <Gadi> stay tuned...
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| 17:46 | :)
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| 17:51 | npman has quit IRC | |
| 17:56 | <ogra> Gadi, in per user subdirs under /tmp ?
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> ogra: made with mktemp
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| 18:04 | <Gadi> ogra: yeah
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| 18:04 | mktemp /tmp/ltsp-localapps-${USER}-XXXXXX
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| 18:04 | <ogra> sweet
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| 18:04 | <Gadi> is what I currently have
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| 18:06 | it will affect ltsp-trunk and ldm-trunk, tho
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| 18:06 | as ldm needs to set a client variable for the session
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| 18:06 | <ogra> indeed
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| 18:06 | <Gadi> so, it would be another one of these must update both
| |
| 18:06 | for it to work
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| 18:13 | adrianorg has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:14 | <Gadi> Ryan52: ping
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| 18:15 | adrianorg has left #ltsp | |
| 18:17 | <Gadi> does anyone know if the entire environment from before ldm is launched by the screen script is exported to the rc.d/ environment?
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| 18:17 | or if it is only certain vars?
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| 18:17 | <Ryan52> Gadi: pong
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| 18:17 | <Gadi> ah, Ryan52 i figured you might know
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| 18:18 | ^^
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| 18:18 | <Ryan52> it should still all be there.
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| 18:18 | <Gadi> so, if I export a var in the ldm screen.d script, it should be present in rc.d/X99-...
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| 18:18 | right?
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| 18:19 | <Ryan52> yep
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| 18:19 | <Gadi> cool
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| 18:22 | <Ryan52> ogra, vagrantc, I heard my name in a conversations...should I ready them? or is it useless boring stuff?
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| 18:22 | <vagrantc> don't recall...
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| 18:23 | Ryan52: we made yet another plan for the ldm translated locale stuff
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| 18:23 | Ryan52: warren summarized it on ltsp-developer
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| 18:25 | <Ryan52> how do you know it will only take 16K?
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| 18:26 | that xml file and the translations may have more than just all of the possible locales.
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| 18:26 | so if you're basing it on the size of ldminfod output, don't.
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| 18:26 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: because it's basically doing what you already did for ldminfod, but instead doing it at package build time.
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| 18:27 | <Ryan52> how do we get a list of locales?
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| 18:27 | "locale -a" won't work anymore.
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| 18:27 | because that doesn't work for Debian/Ubuntu.
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> on debian, we've got /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
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| 18:28 | <Ryan52> eww. ok.
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| 18:28 | <vagrantc> fedora's got locale -a ... no idea with ubuntu...
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| 18:28 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 18:28 | <vagrantc> but yes, we'll need to find a way to get a list of available locales
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| 18:29 | HrdwrBoB has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:29 | <HrdwrBoB> morning all
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| 18:30 | is there an easy way, from within an LTSP session, to know the IP of the terminal?
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> looks like debian lenny has 233 supported UTF-8 locales in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
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| 18:30 | <HrdwrBoB> before I go and hack around it
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| 18:30 | <vagrantc> should be in the $LTSP_CLIENT or $SSH_CONNECTION variables
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| 18:31 | <Ryan52> $ locale -a | grep utf8 | wc -l
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| 18:31 | 237
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| 18:31 | hrm.
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| 18:31 | <Gadi> ls /usr/share/i18n/locales/
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| 18:31 | <HrdwrBoB> excellent, thanks vagrantc
| |
| 18:31 | * Ryan52 goes to diff them | |
| 18:32 | <Gadi> $ ls /usr/share/i18n/locales/|wc -l
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| 18:32 | 277
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| 18:32 | <Ryan52> $ ls /usr/share/i18n/locales/|wc -l
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| 18:32 | 274
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| 18:32 | <Gadi> (thats on intrepid)
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| 18:33 | <Ryan52> that's on all Debian.
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'm guessing some of those aren't actual locales
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| 18:33 | <Ryan52> (not stable)
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| 18:33 | <Gadi> maybe
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| 18:33 | <Ryan52> de_LU@euro, translit_combining
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| 18:33 | <vagrantc> Gadi: translit* ...
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| 18:34 | <Gadi> $ ls /usr/share/i18n/locales/|grep translit|wc -l
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| 18:34 | 12
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| 18:34 | as long as there's more stuff and not less
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| 18:34 | you can always throw away
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| 18:34 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 18:36 | <Ryan52> so should I work on the new plan?
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: can we stop you? :)
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| 18:37 | <Ryan52> why?
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: well, as long as you're happy to work on it, i don't see any reason not to. :)
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| 18:38 | though sometimes it's good to let an idea settle a bit.... :)
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| 18:47 | Gadi: i don't see why you'd need to touch ldm-trunk to implement your master plan ... just need to move ltsp-trunk/localapps/ldm-rc.d/S02-localapps-menu to XNN-localapps-menu, i'd think ...
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| 18:47 | and of course, change the localapps-menu code a bit
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| 18:48 | and set CLIENT_ENV="$CLIENT_ENV XDG_MENU_DIRS= ..."
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| 18:49 | with a somedir=$(ssh -d mktemp -d /tmp/foo-barXXX) no?
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| 18:49 | japerry_cat has quit IRC | |
| 18:49 | <Gadi> ah - I can set my own CLIENT_ENV...
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| 18:49 | didnt see that part
| |
| 18:49 | * vagrantc wonders how local_apps_menu and blacklisting can interact... | |
| 18:49 | <vagrantc> or is it whitelisting
| |
| 18:50 | <Gadi> well, I still want to set the mktemp dir name to an env var rather than store it in a file for later use - and that means setting it in the screen script
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| 18:51 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i thought you were running mktemp on the server ... ?
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| 18:51 | HrdwrBoB has left #ltsp | |
| 18:51 | <vagrantc> Gadi: wouldn't it have to be unique per login?
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| 18:51 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:51 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 18:51 | Ill show you what I am crafting in a bit
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| 18:51 | * vagrantc is curious about what Gadi has brewing | |
| 18:51 | <Gadi> hopefully it'll be clearer
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| 18:52 | but, thx for the clientevn idea
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| 18:52 | *env
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| 18:52 | <warren> Ryan52: you around? Time for us to build ltsp into Fedora, so you can learn how.
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| 18:52 | <Ryan52> oh yay! :)
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| 18:53 | <warren> Ryan52: install mkdst on fedora (it's in the standard fedora repo)
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| 18:54 | Ryan52: I already bumped to 5.1.55 and ran "mkdst tag"
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| 18:54 | and pushed that
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| 18:54 | well, I usually
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| 18:54 | bump release.conf
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| 18:54 | mkdst tag
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| 18:54 | bzr viz
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| 18:54 | Just to visually inspect that it looks right.
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| 18:54 | mkdst tar --from-tag=ltsp-5.1.55
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| 18:55 | <Ryan52> okay, I don't have an ltsp-trunk check out on my Fedora machine, so give me a few minutes to wait for the normal bzr lag..
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| 18:55 | <warren> Ryan52: I pushed this hours ago
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| 18:55 | Ryan52: oh, and if you push and pull directly using bzr+ssh you don't see the lag.
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| 18:56 | <Ryan52> I mean the lag of waiting for "bzr branch" to finish.
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| 18:56 | <warren> oh
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| 18:57 | <warren> Ryan52: did you setup your cvs env to do /cvs/pkgs checkouts?
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| 18:57 | Ryan52: what I do is
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| 18:57 | mkdir /path/to/fedora-cvs-pkgs/
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| 18:57 | <Ryan52> no, I don't even have a cvs check out over ssh...I needed to ask for help :)
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| 18:57 | Egyptian[Home] has quit IRC | |
| 18:58 | <warren> Ryan52: I have a little shell script in there.
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| 18:58 | #!/bin/bash
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| 18:58 | export CVSROOT=:ext:wtogami@cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/pkgs
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| 18:58 | export CVS_RSH='ssh'
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| 18:58 | bash
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| 18:58 | Ryan52: so the shell that it ran can do checkouts of /cvs/pkgs
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| 18:59 | cvs co packagename
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| 19:00 | Ryan52: of course replace my name with your account name
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| 19:01 | <Ryan52> ugh. lp doesn't know about this ssh key.
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| 19:02 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: just bzr push it from somewhere on your local network ...
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| 19:02 | <warren> you can change the ssh key in one or the other location
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| 19:02 | <vagrantc> Ryan52: and then check it against the one on launchpad
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| 19:02 | <Ryan52> ya, I know, I got it working.
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| 19:05 | Lns has quit IRC | |
| 19:05 | <Ryan52> okay, I have it checked out, and I have ltsp-trunk checked out...now what?
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| 19:05 | <warren> Ryan52: symlink ltsp/F-10/ltsp.spec into ltsp-trunk/
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| 19:05 | Ryan52: (just for convenience)
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| 19:06 | <Ryan52> ok
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| 19:07 | <warren> Ryan52: so if you're working on ltsp-trunk
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| 19:07 | Ryan52: so you pulled new upstream stuff after the last tag and you just want to test it.
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| 19:07 | Ryan52: edit ltsp-trunk/ltsp.spec
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| 19:07 | Ryan52: make Version match release.conf's Version
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| 19:08 | Ryan52: comment out the Release line and uncomment the Release line with the snapshot datestamp.
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| 19:08 | Ryan52: then "mkdst rpm" will build RPMS of your system's arch with whatever is in the ltsp-trunk directory, even if you haven't checked it in yet, with a unique datestamp.
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| 19:09 | Ryan52: understand?
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| 19:09 | Ryan52: give it a try
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| 19:09 | <Gadi> vagrantc: lp:~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-genmenu
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| 19:09 | let me know what you think
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| 19:09 | you were right - I did it without touching ldm-trunk
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| 19:09 | <warren> Ryan52: oh, there is a slightly improved mkdst-trunk that should be tagged and released.
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| 19:10 | Ryan52: do the same with mkdst-trunk, it is good practice because you do exactly the same thing to release that and build into Fedora.
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| 19:10 | <Gadi> bbiab
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| 19:11 | <warren> Ryan52: bzr+ssh://wtogami@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/mkdst/mkdst-trunk/
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| 19:11 | Ryan52: substitute your name
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| 19:11 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 19:11 | <Ryan52> ok....am I gonna have to actually test ltsp-trunk or can you do that? cause I don't have a working test environment for Fedora atm...
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| 19:11 | (or have you done that already?)
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| 19:11 | evilx_ has joined #LTSP | |
| 19:11 | <warren> Ryan52: I already tested this ltsp-trunk and tagged it
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| 19:11 | <Ryan52> oh, right.
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| 19:11 | okay..
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| 19:11 | <warren> Ryan52: but why don't you tag and release mkdst-trunk now.
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| 19:12 | Get mkdst-trunk and /cvs/pkgs/mkdst
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| 19:12 | Add the symlink
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| 19:12 | Do a quick test build just for sanity
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| 19:12 | mkdst rpm
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| 19:13 | Then bump the Version in release.conf (in that case it is referring to another file, go find it.)
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> Gadi: my only comment is that there should be a separate mktemp -d call server-side.
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| 19:13 | Gadi: or it's susceptible to a symlink attack
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| 19:14 | evilx has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:14 | <warren> Ryan52: commit, mkdst tag, bzr viz to inspect for sanity, then bzr push
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| 19:14 | <vagrantc> Gadi: and i'm just assuming TMP_XDG_DIR works :)
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| 19:14 | evilx has quit IRC | |
| 19:15 | <warren> Ryan52: mkdst tar --from-tag=mkdst-0.11
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| 19:15 | Ryan52: let me know when you got that far.
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| 19:17 | <Ryan52> how do I get "bzr viz"?
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| 19:18 | nevermind, I got it.
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| 19:18 | <warren> Ryan52: yum install bzr-gtk
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| 19:22 | Egyptian[Home] has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:26 | <Ryan52> bzr: ERROR: Could not acquire lock "(remote lock)"
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| 19:26 | * Ryan52 waits | |
| 19:26 | <warren> Ryan52: which repo?
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| 19:26 | Ryan52: I've *never* seen that error message
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| 19:26 | <Ryan52> the one on lp.
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| 19:27 | I tried to push, but pressed ctrl-c
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| 19:27 | and now launchpad is all broken.
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| 19:27 | If you're sure that it's not being modified, use bzr break-lock lp-45673808:///~ltsp-upstream/mkdst/mkdst-trunk/.bzr/branch/lock
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| 19:27 | <warren> you might have done exactly the wrong timing
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| 19:27 | <Ryan52> [ryan52@newbie mkdst-trunk]$ bzr break-lock lp-45673808:///~ltsp-upstream/mkdst/mkdst-trunk/.bzr/branch/lock
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| 19:27 | bzr: ERROR: Unsupported protocol for url "lp-45673808:///~ltsp-upstream/mkdst/mkdst-trunk/.bzr/branch/lock"
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| 19:27 | -.-
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| 19:27 | <warren> yeah, i'm pretty sure that nobody is touching it
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| 19:27 | <Ryan52> it's held by me.
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| 19:28 | cause I pressed "ctrl-c" at first.
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| 19:28 | <warren> still stuck?
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| 19:28 | <Ryan52> yah, I'll go bother the launchpad admins.
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| 19:30 | * vagrantc still uses bzr+ssh | |
| 19:30 | <warren> I use bzr+ssh for both push and pull
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| 19:30 | <vagrantc> or actually, sftp, it looks like.
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| 19:32 | <Ryan52> okay, so now what?
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| 19:32 | * warren looks at it | |
| 19:33 | <warren> ok, so you got the tar.bz2 from mkdst tar --from-tag=blah?
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| 19:33 | <Ryan52> yep
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| 19:34 | <warren> copy it into /cvs/pkgs/mkdst/devel/
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| 19:34 | Ryan52: cd into there
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| 19:35 | Ryan52: make upload FILES=whatever-version.tar.bz2
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| 19:35 | Ryan52: edit sources and .cvsignore to get rid of the old one
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| 19:36 | Ryan52: (you can use make new-sources FILES=whatever-version.tar.bz2 instead which wipes out whatever is already in sources and .cvsignore, but some packages you do want to keep other things in there)
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| 19:36 | Ryan52: edit mkdst.spec
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| 19:37 | Ryan52: make sure you have the real Release number instead of the datestamp one
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| 19:37 | Ryan52: set Version number
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| 19:37 | Ryan52: and write your own %changelog entry
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| 19:37 | Ryan52: cvs diff to sanity check
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| 19:38 | Ryan52: make prep (unpacks and applies patches if defined, in this case there are none)
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| 19:38 | Ryan52: make local (builds the RPM locally in place based upon whatever is in the ltsp.spec and sources file)
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| 19:38 | Ryan52: cvs ci
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| 19:38 | Ryan52: write your commit message
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| 19:38 | Ryan52: make tag && make build
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| 19:38 | <Ryan52> what does "make upload" do?
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| 19:39 | <warren> Ryan52: adds the tarball to the official repository of binary blobs, and writes it into sources and .cvsignore files in your directory along with sha1sum
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| 19:39 | <Gadi> vagrantc: how can there be a symlink attack if mktemp is client side?
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| 19:40 | mktemp itself should prevent symlink attacks
| |
| 19:41 | <warren> Ryan52: before you make tag, let me know and I'll look it over.
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| 19:41 | <Ryan52> is there something that will automatically add the "* Thu Jan 29 2008 Ryan Niebur <ryanryan52@gmail.com> - 0.11" to the %changelog section?
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| 19:42 | <warren> Ryan52: you can define a vim macro and I think people have emacs scripts, but I never used either.
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| 19:42 | <Ryan52> should the changelog entry be useful?
| |
| 19:43 | or should I just do "- 0.11" like you did?
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| 19:43 | <warren> Ryan52: in this case 0.11 is fine
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| 19:43 | Ryan52: I only write something there if I think it is important that somebody know
| |
| 19:43 | in this case I'm the only person using mkdst in Fedora
| |
| 19:43 | well, now you.
| |
| 19:44 | <Ryan52> error: %changelog not in descending chronological order
| |
| 19:44 | <warren> Ryan52: you probably didn't bump year?
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| 19:44 | <Ryan52> oh, heh, it's 2009 :p
| |
| 19:46 | okay, I think it committed.
| |
| 19:46 | <warren> Ryan52: I will soon need to refocus on energy on other parts of the distro to prepare for RHEL6. I will occasionally help if necessary to keep ltsp-upstream compatible with Fedora, but I'm hoping you and another person I find to train can do most of it.
| |
| 19:47 | * warren checks | |
| 19:47 | <warren> If you and (somebody else I find) can't keep Fedora updated with upstream, then I will only be able to resync every 2-3 weeks.
| |
| 19:47 | instead of daily
| |
| 19:48 | Ryan52: your release number is 2, did you want it 1 or 2?
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| 19:48 | Ryan52: probably 1 in this case.
| |
| 19:48 | <Ryan52> ...what's that mean?
| |
| 19:48 | <warren> Name: mkdst
| |
| 19:48 | Version: 0.11
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| 19:48 | Release: 2%{?dist}
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| 19:48 | <Ryan52> oh, I see.
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| 19:48 | <warren> doesn't match your changelog
| |
| 19:49 | * Ryan52 fixes | |
| 19:50 | <warren> Ryan52: So devel is currently targeting Fedora 11 which is a few weeks away from beta freeze. Since ltsp isn't critical to the core distribution you can go ahead and update components in devel all the way until the hard freeze before RC.
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| 19:50 | TheProf has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:51 | <warren> Ryan52: I typically test things on the side and only after lots of testing, rebuild the latest version for all current fedora distros. Yes, this is different from Debian. I never backport anything.
| |
| 19:51 | I'm pretty careful about changes that don't break older releases.
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| 19:52 | <Ryan52> okay...which reminds me, why are you having me touch ltsp in fedora 10 and not devel?
| |
| 19:52 | okay, so now do I "make tag && make build" mkdst?
| |
| 19:52 | <warren> Ryan52: I haven't been bothering to update devel for ltsp yet because fedora 11 is broken for netboot at the moment.
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| 19:52 | <Ryan52> ah.
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| 19:52 | <warren> Ryan52: yeah, go ahead
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| 19:53 | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=481078
| |
| 19:53 | <TheProf> Hello. I was having some issues with printing and I believe I have isolated the problem but not the solution: I am missing the jetpipe application. It wasn't installed as part of CentOS. Where can I get it from?
| |
| 19:53 | <warren> They rewrote how it does dhcp in Fedora 11 and broke it in the process.
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| 19:54 | TheProf: you're referring to an ancient version of LTSP
| |
| 19:54 | <Ryan52> how nice of them.
| |
| 19:54 | <warren> TheProf: there isn't a good solution to run a modern LTSP on CentOS.
| |
| 19:55 | <TheProf> warren: I think you are referring to LTSP 4.x something?
| |
| 19:55 | <warren> TheProf: yes
| |
| 19:55 | TheProf: https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/ you can use modern LTSP on Fedora 10 and upgrade into CentOS6 later.
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| 19:55 | <Gadi> vagrantc: your wish is my command (update ltsp-trunk-genmenu)
| |
| 19:55 | <TheProf> oh man. This after spending 2 months learning k12linux :)
| |
| 19:55 | <Ryan52> 1092396 build (dist-f11, /cvs/pkgs:rpms/mkdst/devel:mkdst-0_11-1_fc11) completed successfully
| |
| 19:56 | <warren> TheProf: k12linux?
| |
| 19:56 | <TheProf> sorry, k12ltsp
| |
| 19:56 | my mistake.
| |
| 19:56 | <warren> TheProf: k12linux is actually a bit easier to setup, try the K12Linux live server media
| |
| 19:56 | TheProf: it does a lot of K12LTSP automatically
| |
| 19:57 | <Gadi> TheProf: LTSP 4.2 didnt use jetpipe
| |
| 19:57 | it used lp_server
| |
| 19:57 | <TheProf> I was always used to K12ltsp since FC 4 I think because it was boot and go. Everything on the system is working fine for the small setup we have. The only thing that seems to be missing is this jetpipe
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| 19:57 | vagrantc_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:57 | <Gadi> same thing - different executable
| |
| 19:57 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: because you need to call mktemp on the client as well as the server
| |
| 19:57 | <warren> Ryan52: ok, copy mkdst.spec sources .cvsignore into F-10 directory, cvs diff to sanity check, commit, tag and build
| |
| 19:58 | Ryan52: let's not bother with F-9 since nobody will use it
| |
| 19:58 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: I just pushed a change to do it as you suggest
| |
| 19:58 | <Ryan52> okay.
| |
| 19:58 | <warren> Ryan52: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ while that's building login here and poke around
| |
| 19:58 | <TheProf> Gadi: I was reading the instructions online and I thought the wiki was referring to using the jetpipe to identify the socket for usb printers?
| |
| 19:59 | <Gadi> TheProf: perhaps you read a wiki for LTSP5?
| |
| 19:59 | <TheProf> possibly yes
| |
| 19:59 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: i think it would be simpler if you generated it in a local directory, and then created a new directory, and scped the whole thing over all in one go.
| |
| 19:59 | <warren> TheProf: Got a USB stick? You should try K12Linux Live Server. You can demo it entirely from the USB stick to determine if things would work smoothly with a real install.
| |
| 19:59 | <Gadi> TheProf: if you get a shell on the client, do a ps -ef|grep lp
| |
| 19:59 | <warren> TheProf: no need to touch your hard drive.
| |
| 20:00 | <Ryan52> warren, how do I revert a change with cvs?
| |
| 20:00 | <TheProf> Gadi: I've got shell - I will check that now.
| |
| 20:00 | <warren> Ryan52: there's no good way, just undo it and commit again
| |
| 20:00 | <Ryan52> no, I mean equivalent of "svn revert file" or "git checkout file"
| |
| 20:00 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: LOCAL_TMP=$(mktemp -d) ; SERVER_TMP=$( ssh mktemp -d) ; generate_in $LOCAL_TMP ; scp $LOCAL_TMP $SERVER:$SERVER_TMP
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| 20:00 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: thats what I did at first
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| 20:00 | <TheProf> warren: you are correct in that it probably is an easy process. I'm just on a time crunch where" every day that is delayed is a day that it could have been done if it was windows" mentality.
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| 20:00 | <warren> Ryan52: delete the local file and 'cvs up filename'
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| 20:01 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: but you didn't run mktemp on the server ... you merely copied the locally generated directory over to the server's /tmp
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| 20:01 | <warren> TheProf: you are using software that hasn't been developed for like 4+ years now
| |
| 20:01 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: ah, right
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| 20:01 | <warren> TheProf: I actually haven't used the old LTSP in maybe 7 years myself.
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| 20:01 | <Gadi> well, in the one I just pushed, I just do it all on the server
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| 20:01 | <TheProf> warren: it's a step up :) until December I was running k12ltsp based on FC 5
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| 20:02 | <warren> TheProf: I have absolutely no clue how printing worked back then.
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: so the first attempt was actually closer to what i was suggesting, with one glitch.
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| 20:02 | <TheProf> if it wasn't broke I didn't change it.
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| 20:02 | <Gadi> ok
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| 20:03 | <TheProf> Gadi: that line on the client shell returns: sbin/lp_server -n 9100 -w -d /dev/usb/lp0
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| 20:03 | litlebuda has quit IRC | |
| 20:03 | <Gadi> TheProf: so, you are fine
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| 20:03 | <TheProf> sweet!
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| 20:03 | <Gadi> why cant you print?
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| 20:03 | <Ryan52> warren, should I merge your changelog entry from F-10 branch into the devel branch?
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| 20:03 | <TheProf> well I know it prints fine when the printer is directly into the server
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| 20:03 | <Ryan52> or would that destroy the world?
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| 20:03 | <warren> Ryan52: oh
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| 20:03 | <Gadi> TheProf: usb printer?
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| 20:04 | <TheProf> but when I moved it to a client and tried to point it to the client, it keeps asking for the jetpipe
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| 20:04 | Gadi: yes
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| 20:04 | vagrantc has quit IRC | |
| 20:04 | <Gadi> TheProf: can you telnet to the thin client IP port 9100?
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| 20:04 | <warren> Ryan52: oops, I should have checked that devel was actually equal to F-10 before
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| 20:04 | <Gadi> (what asks for jetpipe?)
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| 20:04 | <warren> Ryan52: not a big deal, just make it in sync later.
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| 20:04 | <TheProf> Gadi: sorry I should be clear.
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| 20:05 | <Ryan52> warren, what's that mean? should I commit your changes into the devel branch?
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| 20:05 | <TheProf> any print job sits there in the queue processing for a while
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| 20:05 | <warren> Ryan52: or bump devel to release 2 and make it equal now.
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| 20:05 | <TheProf> Gadi: then it suddenly says the job is complete but nothing comes out
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| 20:05 | researching through the mailing list archives shows this is a symptom of a lack of jetpipe
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| 20:05 | <warren> Ryan52: after you "make tag" there is no going back and changing it again, so bump the release number
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| 20:05 | <TheProf> searching through the archives about that shows it was missing from recent releases.
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| 20:05 | Hence the situation.
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| 20:06 | <Gadi> TheProf: gotta love the internet - more useless info than anywhere else
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| 20:06 | TheProf: can you telnet to the thin client IP port 9100?
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| 20:06 | and did you make the print queue on the server as a jetdirect queue to port 9100 for that IP?
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| 20:06 | <TheProf> Oh yes. xkcd has a strip exactly about that idea.
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| 20:07 | I did point the print queue on the server to a jetdiret queue to port 9100
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| 20:07 | the exact line I used is:
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| 20:07 | socket: 192.168.2.259:9100
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| 20:08 | <Ryan52> okay, I'll just leave it alone then..
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| 20:08 | <TheProf> as per wiki. I will try to telnet now
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| 20:08 | sorry, 250:9100
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| 20:08 | <Ryan52> warren, so what do you do if you want to make changes but not actually upload them? like if they aren't high enough priority to need an upload?
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| 20:09 | okay, committed in F-10...should I tag and build?
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| 20:09 | <TheProf> Gadi: yes I can telnet to 9100
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| 20:09 | <warren> Ryan52: you can commit changes but not tag, or tag but not build.
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| 20:09 | <Gadi> TheProf: did you set up the queue in the GUI?
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| 20:09 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 20:09 | <warren> Ryan52: "make upload FILES=stuff" permanently forever stores stuff on the server, so try to minimize doing it
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| 20:10 | <TheProf> Gadi: once gui, once cups, and once via modifying the printers.conf file
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| 20:10 | <Gadi> heh, no wonder nothing works ;)
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| 20:10 | <TheProf> each time I erased and recreated the printer :)
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| 20:10 | <Gadi> doesnt centos have JetDirect as an option in the printer wizard gui thing?
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| 20:11 | <TheProf> it does yes
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| 20:11 | but it seems the script is missing that it is trying to call
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| 20:11 | <Ryan52> warren, so should I "make tag && make build" now?
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| 20:11 | <Gadi> what script is that?
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| 20:11 | <warren> Ryan52: yes
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| 20:11 | Ryan52: you're pushing the F-10 build as an official fedora update
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| 20:11 | <TheProf> whereis jetpipe shows nothing
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| 20:12 | <warren> Ryan52: so build it
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| 20:12 | <Gadi> forget jetpipe
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| 20:12 | <warren> Ryan52: then go to https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/
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| 20:12 | <TheProf> ok - forgotten
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| 20:12 | <Gadi> what gui on the server knows about jetpipe?
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| 20:12 | <warren> Ryan52: normally we push updates as "testing" first, but in this case the risk is nothing, so push it directly to stable.
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| 20:12 | <Gadi> I am talking straight printer admin gui
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| 20:12 | <TheProf> Gadi: alright loading it up - do you prefer that or cups gui?
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| 20:12 | <Gadi> whichever is prettier
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| 20:12 | :)
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| 20:13 | <TheProf> loading up system-config-printer
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| 20:13 | got my printer here
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| 20:13 | device URI
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| 20:13 | <Gadi> on Ubuntu, if you choose JetDirect it asks you: Host, Port Number
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| 20:13 | quite easy
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| 20:13 | yours makes you put the full URI?
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| 20:13 | <TheProf> it asks for it in stages.
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| 20:14 | First stage it is asking me for connection type
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| 20:14 | options are: appsocket/hp jetdirect, ltp 1, serial, ipp, lpd, windows samba, other
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| 20:14 | <Gadi> socket://192.168.2.250:9100
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| 20:14 | that should be your URI
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| 20:15 | if you need it
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| 20:15 | <TheProf> ok so I've picked that first one appsocket/hp direct, and for the hostname I've put the IP, and the port was prepopulated with 9100
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| 20:15 | done.
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| 20:15 | <Gadi> cool
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| 20:16 | <TheProf> should I print a test page?
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| 20:16 | <Gadi> yup
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| 20:17 | <TheProf> hmm message I'm seeing on the status page is Attempting to connect to host 192.168.2.250 on port 9100
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| 20:18 | <Gadi> TheProf: there is also a /var/log/cups/error_log you can check
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| 20:18 | <TheProf> checking now
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| 20:19 | <Ryan52> warren: "If you feel that community testing is unnecessary for your update, you can choose to push it straight to the stable fedora-updates repository instead."
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| 20:19 | warren: how do I choose that?
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| 20:20 | <warren> Ryan52: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/
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| 20:20 | <Ryan52> ugh
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| 20:20 | nothing like "make update"? :(
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| 20:20 | do I still need to do "make update" first?
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| 20:20 | <warren> what are you reading?
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| 20:20 | I've never used make update.
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| 20:20 | <Ryan52> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UpdatingPackageHowTo
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| 20:21 | it was linked from the page you just gave to me.
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| 20:21 | <TheProf> Gadi: wow that's a long file. I'm just trying to find the relevant timestamp
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| 20:21 | <warren> Ryan52: oh, i've never used the text interface to bodhi before
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| 20:22 | <Ryan52> warren, anyway, the build is finished, what do I do now?
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| 20:22 | <warren> Ryan52: I suppose try it both ways just to be sure you know what's going on.
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| 20:22 | Ryan52: push it as a stable update for F-10
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| 20:22 | <Ryan52> how?
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| 20:22 | <warren> Ryan52: try it the web page way first
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| 20:22 | Ryan52: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/
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| 20:23 | <Ryan52> oh, that page makes more sense when you're logged in...:p
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| 20:24 | <warren> Ryan52: due to the client/server nature of ltsp, going through the regular updates-testing procedure recommended for standard fedora updates is almost useless for us.
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| 20:24 | Ryan52: I came up with a different procedure altogether
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| 20:24 | <TheProf> Gadi: so this is the most complex log I've ever seen. I also think that it's taken the print job and then poof it's gone. Just checking the last bit
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| 20:24 | <warren> Ryan52: it is complex and only in my head, so I'll have to explain it tomorrow, I'm super exhausted now.
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| 20:24 | <Ryan52> okay.
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| 20:24 | is this bugfix or enhancement?
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| 20:24 | phpstar has joined #ltsp | |
| 20:24 | <warren> Ryan52: go ahead and use the same procedure to build ltsp-5.1.55 into F-9 and F-10
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| 20:24 | Ryan52: bugfix
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| 20:25 | <TheProf> Is there a pastebin for this channel?
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| 20:25 | <phpstar> hello everyone
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| 20:25 | <Gadi> !pastebot
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| 20:25 | <ltspbot> Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 20:25 | <TheProf> Gadi: that's just cool.
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| 20:25 | <Ryan52> warren: "Enable karma automatism"?
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| 20:25 | whatever that means..
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| 20:25 | <warren> Ryan52: uncheck it for this one
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| 20:25 | Ryan52: you're not using the testing process
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| 20:25 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 20:25 | <phpstar> can i use LTSP to deploy Win XP on thin clients ??
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| 20:25 | <warren> Ryan52: I might put a pidgin update into updates-testing with 6 karma points to auto-push it to stable.
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| 20:25 | * Ryan52 clicks teh button | |
| 20:27 | <warren> Ryan52: actually do this 1) go ahead and use the same procedure to build ltsp-5.1.55 into F-9 and F-10 2) Copy sources .cvsignore, spec file into devel and build it there to match. the cvs diff will be huge in that case but look it over.
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| 20:27 | Ryan52: and copy F-10 to devel for ldm and ltspfs too.
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| 20:27 | Ryan52: ldm is special because it has more stuff in sources than just the source tarball, so watch out.
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| 20:28 | Ryan52: ldm is also a simplest example of a patch in /cvs/pkgs to apply on the pristine tarball, so look at how that works.
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| 20:28 | Ryan52: if you add another file to the directory referenced as a SOURCE or PATCH line in spec, you need to cvs add it before checkin.
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| 20:29 | <ltsppbot> "TheProf" pasted "Relevant part of cups error log. The job was submitted at 21:17:05 as job no 17" (10015 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/226
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| 20:29 | <warren> Ryan52: many fedora packages differ between fedora releases, but some packagers put effort into making the sources and spec files exactly identical.
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| 20:29 | <TheProf> Warning- it's a long file
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| 20:29 | <warren> Ryan52: "cvs co pidgin" for a very complicated example... it supports every Fedora release and RHEL releases since like 2004
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| 20:30 | Ryan52: all from the same spec
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| 20:30 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: pushing fix that I think is what you mean
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| 20:30 | <TheProf> It starts right when the job was submitted. I don't see an errors.
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| 20:31 | <warren> Ryan52: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/mkdst-0.11-1.fc10 good job
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| 20:33 | <TheProf> Gadi: it does seem to be going to the right location: D [29/Jan/2009:21:17:05 -0500] [Job 17] envp[21]="DEVICE_URI=socket://192.168.2.250:9100"
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| 20:33 | <warren> Ryan52: understand so far?
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| 20:33 | <Ryan52> yep
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| 20:34 | <Gadi> TheProf: on the printer properties, can you set any options wrt bidirectional?
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| 20:34 | <TheProf> checking now
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| 20:35 | <warren> Ryan52: let me know when the ltsp F-9 and F-10 builds are done, I'll pull them into my test thing...
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| 20:35 | Ryan52: brb shower
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| 20:36 | <Gadi> TheProf: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/fastFaqLiteDocument?lc=en&cc=uk&dlc=en&docname=bpj06101
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| 20:36 | <TheProf> Gadi: nothing default but there is an option to add a job option
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| 20:36 | <Gadi> is your printer on that list?
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| 20:36 | phpstar has left #ltsp | |
| 20:36 | <TheProf> Checking now
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| 20:37 | Gadi: yes, 6th one down:HP LaserJet 1000
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| 20:38 | <Ryan52> warren, ok, I'm taking a break to eat dinner first...I haven't eaten a full meal yet today.
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| 20:38 | <Gadi> well, you may be out of luck, then
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| 20:38 | read the introductory paragraph
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| 20:39 | <TheProf> hmmmmm
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| 20:39 | <Gadi> unfortunately, we live in a day and age where, just like modems, printers too may not behave like real printers without the presence of a PC
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| 20:39 | :)
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| 20:39 | <TheProf> so how does it print when directly connected to the server?
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| 20:39 | is it because of the communication link between the two?
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| 20:39 | <Gadi> read the intro paragraph
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| 20:40 | some printers cannot be jetdirect'd
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| 20:40 | <TheProf> *sigh* they HAD to go and buy the cheapest laser printer out there.
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| 20:40 | <Gadi> Host-based (sometimes referred to as GDI printers). A printer that relies on the computer's processor to rasterize the print job. Most host-based printers use the GDI interface built into Windows (hence the "GDI printer" term), so there is no need to convert the data to PostScript(R), PCL, or other printer language. PPA (Pri
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| 20:40 | doh
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| 20:41 | with JetDirect, the printer just gets raw data
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| 20:41 | <TheProf> and then it transforms it onboard.
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| 20:41 | <Gadi> TheProf: you can try *not* using the postscript driver
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| 20:41 | <TheProf> this one can't do it.
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| 20:42 | <Gadi> maybe another driver would work like hpijs, but I dont think so
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| 20:42 | I dont think you can send it any raw printer language
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| 20:43 | <TheProf> I did have it printing before -- I did it by hooking it up to a windows 98 Pentium II and sharing it to the LTSP server. I was hoping to gain an extra thin client by doing it this way
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| 20:43 | <Gadi> I faced that issue once before with a client that got cheap printers
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| 20:43 | <TheProf> argh
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| 20:43 | <Gadi> took forever to figure it out
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: looks pretty good. though you probably want "mktemp -d", no?
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| 20:44 | <Gadi> prolly
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| 20:44 | lemme change that
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| 20:44 | <TheProf> Gadi: I appreciate the help. At least it resolves this headache even if it doesn't get me another client.
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| 20:45 | Gadi: BTW, this was the comic I was referring to when you were talking about the internet full of useless info http://xkcd.com/214/
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: my only fear is with: CLIENT_ENV="${CLIENT_ENV} XDG_DATA_DIRS=${TMP_XDG_MENU}:\${XDG_DATA_DIRS}"
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| 20:45 | <Gadi> TheProf: np
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: will it have XDG_DATA_DIRS available to pre-pend TMP_XDF_MENU ?
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| 20:46 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: which part the backslash?
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| 20:46 | yeah, I was curious about that myself - and whether XDG_DATA_DIRS is overwritten by Xsession
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| 20:46 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: just wondering what sets XDG_DATA_DIRS
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| 20:46 | * Gadi investigates | |
| 20:50 | <vagrantc_> that could easily be the stumbling block for this idea...
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| 20:50 | * vagrantc_ checks it out too | |
| 20:51 | <TheProf> Gadi: Sorry. A problem I just realized. Prior I used to have the server in the same room as the computer lab. So there was one NIC for the clients, and one NIC for the internet. The Windows machine plugged into the switch that had the NIC internet and so was able to communicate that way. Because of the kids literally kicking the server, I've moved it out of the lab so there's only the one NIC for the LTSP clients coming into t
| |
| 20:52 | <warren> Ryan52: if you throw "koji build --scratch whatever.src.rpm" at koji and the build succeeds, then you can grab your scratch builds from http://koji.fedoraproject.org/scratch/ryan52/
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| 20:53 | Ryan52: your official builds after 'make tag' and 'make build' go into http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/mkdst (you can see your build there right now)
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| 20:53 | <Ryan52> how do I make a scratch build with "make blah"? is there a way?
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| 20:53 | <warren> hmm
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| 20:54 | Ryan52: look in ../common/Makefile.common, it defines all the make targets. Lots of them I've never used before.
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| 20:54 | <Ryan52> and for ltsp, which way do you want me to build it?
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| 20:54 | <warren> Ryan52: I usually "make test-srpm" which spits out a .src.rpm of whatever is in the current directory (even uncommitted) and throw that into "koji build --scratch dist-f10 filename.src.rpm"
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| 20:55 | Ryan52: build official ltsp-5.1.55 in F-9, F-10 and devel, based upon the F-10/ltsp.spec
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| 20:55 | <Ryan52> okay.
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| 20:55 | <warren> Ryan52: do the same thing from ldm/F-10 to ldm/devel
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| 20:55 | (be careful the contents of ldm is more complicated with extra sources and a patch)
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| 20:55 | Ryan52: and ltspfs/F-10 to ltspfs/devel
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| 20:56 | <Ryan52> and just upload those?
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| 20:56 | <warren> you aren't changing the tarball in ldm and ltspfs
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| 20:56 | <Ryan52> without testing? 0.o
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| 20:56 | <warren> you're only copying F-10 to devel
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| 20:56 | <Ryan52> oh.
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| 20:56 | <warren> and building devel
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| 20:56 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 20:57 | <warren> Ryan52: changelog entry for 5.1.55 should summarize the only important change since .54, which was set default volume higher
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| 20:58 | Ryan52: OK I'm sleeping real soon. One last thing for today.
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: i don't see anything that sets XDG* ...
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| 20:58 | <Gadi> me neither
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| 20:59 | <warren> Ryan52: I plan on doing a new media release after ltsp-5.1.55, possibly with ldm-2.0.30-2.fc10 because it is pretty proven stable. Maybe even tomorrow if testing looks good with ltsp-5.1.55. But I can delay a few days if ldm-2.0.31 with the proposed localization change works well.
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| 20:59 | <Gadi> prolly just appends a pre-existing var
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| 20:59 | to whatever is built in
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| 20:59 | <warren> Ryan52: This is the first major release of LTSP that will hit fedora-announce-list, the main project list to over 200k subscribers.
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| 20:59 | <Ryan52> warren, do I want to put the f-10 and f-9 ltsp updates into the bodhi system? or should I just let you do that after you test?
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| 21:00 | <warren> Ryan52: don't put ltsp/ldm/ltspfs into bodhi yet, I'll show you my oddball non-standard testing method tomorrow.
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| 21:00 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 21:01 | warren, I intend on redoing the language localization tonight, so ya..
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| 21:01 | <warren> Ryan52: cool, I look forward to testing it
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| 21:01 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: where'd the documentation for using XDG_MENU_DIRS come from?
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| 21:01 | <warren> Ryan52: if you're really sure it is in good shape just tag and build into F-9 through devel, we can always tag again later if necessary.
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| 21:01 | <Gadi> XDG_DATA_DIRS
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| 21:02 | freedesktop.org
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| 21:02 | <warren> Ryan52: those builds don't go anywhere so don't worry about building something not proven
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| 21:02 | <Gadi> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-0.5.html
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| 21:02 | <warren> Ryan52: well, devel goes into daily F11 snapshots of rawhide now, but netboot doesn't work at anyway so wont hurt anybody right now.
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: yeah, reading that...
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| 21:02 | * Ryan52 nods | |
| 21:03 | <Ryan52> warren, do people actually use rawhide? should I upgrade my system?
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: If $XDG_DATA_DIRS is either not set or empty, a value equal to /usr/local/share/:/usr/share/ should be used.
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| 21:03 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: perhaps I should set to: $TMP_XDG_DIR:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: that's exactly what i was thinking...
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| 21:03 | <Gadi> mine is: XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/
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| 21:03 | on intrepid
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| 21:03 | <warren> Ryan52: not recommended at the moment, we're not even at Alpha yet
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| 21:04 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: unless, of course, the distro or sysadmin does something weird... and then we've got issues.
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| 21:04 | <warren> Ryan52: even I'M afraid to upgrade to rawhide
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| 21:04 | right now
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: no value set on lenny, logging in from ldm.
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| 21:04 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: env|grep XDG
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| 21:04 | ah, right - I am logged in from gdm
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| 21:05 | ok
| |
| 21:05 | <warren> Ryan52: only upgrade to rawhide if you're interested in figuring out exactly what went wrong, filing bugs and manually grabbing new rawhide builds and trying it to report back before the next rawhide nightly so it fixes for other people. Very time intensive process...
| |
| 21:05 | <Gadi> Ill do that
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| 21:05 | <warren> Ryan52: although after we fix mkinitrd/dhclient, it is possible to run F-11 /opt/ltsp/i386 on F-10 host and that is very safe.
| |
| 21:07 | <Ryan52> ok.
| |
| 21:07 | <warren> Ryan52: that being said, this rawhide has been strangely quiet with very little broken... we were so surprised that we pushed our alpha freeze a week later to grab a lot more newer packages, without changing our release date.
| |
| 21:07 | but immediately after the Alpha, we push gcc-4.4 and rebuild all packages
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| 21:07 | so things will explode again
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| 21:07 | <Gadi> vagrantc_: pushed
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| 21:10 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: looking good. :)
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| 21:11 | <Gadi> now, if only we can find some unsuspecting sucker to test...
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: i was figuring with all the critiquing i'm doing, i'd best do some testing, too :)
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| 21:11 | <Gadi> btw: I noticed no Makefile for localapss/ldm-rc.d
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| 21:12 | so, I assume it is up to the packagers to note that change?
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| 21:12 | (ie from S* to X*)
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: oh, i noticed another thing. shouldn't LDM_SOCKET and LDM_SERVER already be exported... in the calls to ltsp-genmenu, it seems like it shouldn't need to be explicitly added there...
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| 21:14 | try2free has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:14 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: in X02-localapps-menu and X99-zkill...
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| 21:14 | <Gadi> ltsp-genmenu is run in an su -
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| 21:14 | so, the vars dont migrate
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc_> ah, got it.
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| 21:15 | <Gadi> we were bit by that with the LOCAL_APPS_MENU_ITEMS
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| 21:15 | :)
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| 21:16 | <vagrantc_> i gotta do a few things, but should be able to test in a bit...
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| 21:16 | * Gadi reflects on how he loves how configurable ldm has become with all the rc_files | |
| 21:16 | <Gadi> Ryan52: remond me to thank you for adding X*
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| 21:16 | :)
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| 21:16 | *remind
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| 21:18 | <warren> Ryan52: ok.... sleep... ttyl
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| 21:18 | <Ryan52> :)
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| 21:18 | warren, bye
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| 21:22 | <TheProf> Gadi: sorry to bother you again. I've almost got the system set up. I've got the windows computer on the same switch as the thin clients. I can see the shared folders on the windows computer from the ltsp server via smb. I just can't see the shared printer. Any thoughts?
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| 21:25 | ball has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:26 | <ball> If I find a machine that can boot from USB, is there a version of LTSP that will let me turn that into an X terminal?
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| 21:28 | <Gadi> TheProf: not sure - you sure the printer is shared?
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| 21:29 | brb
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| 21:31 | <TheProf> Gadi: OK. It says it's shared. I'll unshare and reshare it
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| 21:51 | <TheProf> Gadi: Shared, unshared it, reshared it rebooted 4 times (it's a windows machine :) ) but it's not showing up on the linux machien
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| 22:10 | <vagrantc_> Gadi: gah. i don't have a chance to test this tonight. i'm sick and need to turn off my brain.
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| 22:42 | <Ryan52> warren, ltsp uploaded to all three, ltspfs uploaded to devel, and I'll do ldm once I get my new upstream release finished :)
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| 22:44 | warren, and please double check the changes that were merged from F-10 to devel for ltsp.spec ... I think I understand what it's doing, but I don't understand why that changed (or more of why it was originally that way..) with the "%if 0%{?fedora}"s disabling client stuff in devel..
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| 22:45 | <johnny> lol Ryan52 .. i should have made you a gentoo dev instead :)
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| 22:45 | Ryan52, altho they are nearly as resistant to certain changes as debian is
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| 22:46 | at least the base system was in good shape before they got to squabbling like debian
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| 22:46 | Ryan52, we've been doing dependency based init for years.. waaay before this upstart business
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| 22:47 | altho of course that means it will be harder for gentoo to decide to use upstart themselves .. as they are very happy with their init system now
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| 22:47 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 22:47 | <johnny> ala debian
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| 22:47 | <dberkholz> it's hard to justify switching when you had a decent setup to start with
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| 22:47 | something where dependencies don't go into the comments.
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| 22:48 | god, that disgusts me
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| 22:48 | <johnny> the reason i'm using fedora on this laptop is because they are more acceptable to change
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| 22:48 | dberkholz, for real..
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| 22:48 | dberkholz, i've still yet to see a true upstart config file tho
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| 22:51 | <Ryan52> with bzr is there any reason for me to bother with "bzr merge" for reverting commits? or can I just use "bzr diff | patch -R"? :)
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| 22:52 | <johnny> Ryan52, no!
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| 22:52 | please don't do that
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| 22:53 | <Ryan52> ugh.
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| 22:53 | <johnny> we had a nasty situation like that.. and it nearly broke our repository system
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| 22:53 | altho it was monotone not bzr
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| 22:53 | <Ryan52> why?
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| 22:53 | <johnny> the important thing is what happens to the history
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| 22:53 | <Ryan52> my question is does bzr actually pay attention?
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| 22:53 | <johnny> yes
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| 22:53 | monotone paid attention to more ..
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| 22:53 | <Ryan52> "bzr log" doesn't make it seem like it does.
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| 22:54 | <johnny> Ryan52, in monotone commits are signed by default with your key
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| 22:54 | <Ryan52> but *shrug*
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| 22:54 | johnny, gpg? 0.o
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| 22:54 | <johnny> definitely much more strict
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| 22:54 | ssh keys actually
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| 22:54 | <Ryan52> signed with an ssh key?
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| 22:54 | wierd.
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| 22:54 | *weird
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| 22:54 | uhhh...how?
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| 22:54 | <johnny> actually.. they are monotone keys.. but it works via ssh-agent
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| 22:55 | <Ryan52> insanity imho.
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| 22:55 | <johnny> $ mtn ssh_agent_export ~/.ssh/id_monotone
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| 22:55 | enter passphrase for key ID [user@example.com]:
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| 22:55 | enter new passphrase for key ID [user@example.com]:
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| 22:55 | confirm passphrase for key ID [user@example.com]:
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| 22:55 | insanity?
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| 22:56 | you do create a new key for monotone
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| 22:56 | and then when you commit, you sign your revisions
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| 22:56 | it's not optional like in bzr
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| 22:56 | <Ryan52> does it use the author or the pusher?
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| 22:56 | (for the signing)
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| 22:57 | <nubae> johnny: did u end up setting up a habari blog in the end?
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| 22:57 | <johnny> Ryan52, the pusher
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| 22:58 | <Ryan52> okay, then it makes sense.
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| 22:58 | <johnny> nubae, sorta..
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| 22:58 | nubae, i need to keep up with it.. but i kinda don't like the internal design
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| 22:58 | <nubae> Its just such cool software
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| 22:58 | <johnny> wordpress is worse.. but habari could be nicer on the inside..
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| 22:58 | they do things in a weird way
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| 22:58 | <nubae> really? I think the abstraction of code is amazing
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| 22:58 | and very easy to tweak anything
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| 22:59 | <johnny> we had a much better setup in xaraya
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| 22:59 | <nubae> yes, its diferent
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| 22:59 | <johnny> altho our urls could have been ten times better
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| 22:59 | <nubae> but once u get it, it makes coding feel like eating cake
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| 22:59 | <johnny> we had a nice tempating system.. much better than habari
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| 22:59 | xmllike.. so it doesn't look out of place
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| 22:59 | <nubae> check out www.nubae.com com now
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| 22:59 | <johnny> we even had the templates parsing as xslt
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| 22:59 | nubae, some folks are really talking about how cool jekyll is
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| 22:59 | <nubae> check out the plugins I've put in.. oh and let me know if it all seems to much, which ones I should take out
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| 23:00 | <johnny> altho totally different way of doing things
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| 23:00 | <nubae> jeckyl... I'll check that out
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| 23:00 | <johnny> it uses a git repository
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| 23:00 | altho i guess it could use bzr just as easily..
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| 23:00 | <nubae> I'm just fascinated at the mass integration that these tools all use
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| 23:00 | <dberkholz> xslt for websites is the worst
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| 23:00 | <johnny> you post by commiting named files
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| 23:00 | dberkholz, not the way we did it
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| 23:01 | <dberkholz> the one person who knows xslt leaves, nobody else can touch it
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| 23:01 | <johnny> we don't write in xslt.. we write in a much simpler language
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| 23:01 | <nubae> yeah, habari works with svn and trac
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| 23:01 | <johnny> nubae, huh?
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| 23:01 | <nubae> makes it easy to keep updated
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| 23:01 | <johnny> no
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| 23:01 | i'm saying that your posts are stored in git
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| 23:01 | not in a db
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| 23:01 | <nubae> oooh...
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| 23:01 | <johnny> and when you post, it runs a commit hook on the server to rebuild the html based on templates
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| 23:02 | so.. it's mostly static except what js you insert
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| 23:02 | <nubae> thought u were talking about the synching of files so u dont have to keep updating manually
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| 23:02 | <johnny> just a simple templating language
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| 23:02 | i kinda find that idea nice..
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| 23:02 | <nubae> anyway... can u check my site and tell me what u think?
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| 23:02 | <johnny> you write in textile or markup
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| 23:03 | <nubae> does keeping twitter, delicious, identi.ca, linked in seem to much?
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| 23:04 | <johnny> maybe..
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| 23:05 | vagrantc_ has quit IRC | |
| 23:06 | <nubae> they all link with openid, and each does something a little different... I've become a sucker for these apps
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| 23:06 | specially twitter and identi.ca
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| 23:07 | <johnny> too bad identi.ca doesn't do the right thing with xmpp
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| 23:07 | maybe they'll learn one day
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| 23:08 | <nubae> yeah xmpp is too new still
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| 23:08 | do u know jaiku?
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| 23:09 | thats another alternative to identi.ca which has much better integration with other services including xmpp
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| 23:09 | <johnny> no.. xmpp is not too new
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| 23:09 | 10 years is not new :)
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| 23:09 | people have just recently come to visit us
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| 23:09 | * johnny blames them | |
| 23:09 | <johnny> :)
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| 23:09 | <nubae> well, I'm not talking about its specification
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| 23:10 | Im talking about putting it into practice
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| 23:10 | <johnny> yes.. truly
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| 23:10 | <nubae> collaboration is a totally new concept
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| 23:10 | <johnny> i'd like to see a popular social networking site that is non -profit..
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| 23:10 | <nubae> theres been some advances on abiword collab integration I heard recently
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| 23:11 | <johnny> yes there has
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| 23:11 | i have it now.. just nobody to test with?
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| 23:11 | <nubae> well identi.ca is FOSS
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| 23:11 | <johnny> i know
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| 23:11 | <nubae> oh, where did u download it, I'll install and we can play :-)
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| 23:11 | <johnny> but somebody still has to host stuff
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| 23:11 | <nubae> yeah true
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| 23:11 | <johnny> uhmm.. from my repositories?
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| 23:12 | <nubae> yah gentoo... thought u were on ubuntu for a second there
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| 23:12 | <johnny> no.. fedora :)
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| 23:12 | fedora on this laptop, gentoo on server and fast desktop, ubuntu on my gf's pc and at work
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| 23:13 | <nubae> ok, so which version is it?
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| 23:14 | <johnny> 2.6.6 is what i have
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| 23:14 | but there might be another package for the jabber support
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| 23:15 | <Ryan52> johnny, how much does "locale -a" output on a typical gentoo system?
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| 23:16 | <johnny> typical.. i wonder
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| 23:16 | the docs mention setting locale.gen, so many users will have only 1
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| 23:16 | or two
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| 23:16 | <Ryan52> ah.
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| 23:16 | <johnny> i don't know
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| 23:16 | i don't have an unmodified system to check
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| 23:17 | oh.. my ltsp chroot :)
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| 23:17 | <Ryan52> crap, so both debian/ubuntu and gentoo will need an alternate way to determine all of the possible locales.
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| 23:17 | * Ryan52 likes Fedora a lot right now | |
| 23:17 | <johnny> huh? what's the problem with having less?
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| 23:17 | how does that affect you?
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| 23:18 | <Ryan52> ldm will get the list of localized names generated at build time.
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| 23:18 | how does it know which ones to put in the list?
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| 23:18 | debian/ubuntu has /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
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| 23:18 | Fedora has "locale -a"
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| 23:19 | <johnny> don't you have locale -a?
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| 23:19 | <Ryan52> yes, but it only outputs a few languages..
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| 23:19 | in the build chroots, probably only C and POSIX
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| 23:19 | <johnny> and how is that a problem?
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| 23:19 | <Ryan52> nothing will be translated.
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| 23:19 | languages in ldm will appear as en_US
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| 23:19 | <johnny> so.. why don't you give the chroot the same languages as the serveer?
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| 23:20 | <Ryan52> how?
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| 23:20 | <johnny> copy it over? add the packages to install the support?
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| 23:20 | <Ryan52> the packages which contain the info are too big for the chroot
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| 23:20 | and it's too much to push over ldminfod
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| 23:21 | we've discussed it, just trust me :)
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| 23:21 | <TheProf> !SolvePrinterProblem!
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| 23:21 | <ltspbot> TheProf: Error: "SolvePrinterProblem!" is not a valid command.
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| 23:21 | <Ryan52> heh
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| 23:21 | <TheProf> drat.
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| 23:22 | <Ryan52> johnny, so....no way to get a list of possible locales?
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| 23:22 | <TheProf> Thought it might have an idea :)
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| 23:23 | <Ryan52> *shrug*. if not, then it will just be fr_CA (instead of "Francais (Cananda)") for Gentoo users..we can work something out later.
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| 23:23 | <johnny> possible is locale -a ? i'm not sure what you mean
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| 23:23 | <Ryan52> "locale -a | wc -l"
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| 23:23 | what's that say?
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| 23:24 | if you get something around 700, then good. if you get something around 3, then bad.
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| 23:24 | <johnny> 700.. but that's cuz we build glibc in the chroot.. so it happens by default
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| 23:25 | Ryan52, we do have a locale option to only generate the requested locales
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| 23:25 | i think it would be fair if the not selected locales just showed up as their code
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| 23:25 | i don't consider that a problem
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| 23:25 | <Ryan52> ok.
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| 23:25 | <johnny> so as long as it falls back to that.. i don't care
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| 23:26 | * Ryan52 nods | |
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| 23:40 | * nubae is compiling abiword 2.6.6 from source now | |
| 23:43 | <TheProf> !BlowupPrinter
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| 23:43 | <ltspbot> TheProf: Error: "BlowupPrinter" is not a valid command.
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| 23:43 | <nubae> TheProf: try !kickprinter
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| 23:43 | <TheProf> Picky bot.
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| 23:43 | <nubae> :-)
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| 23:43 | <TheProf> !BuyMeLinuxNetworkPrinter
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| 23:43 | <ltspbot> TheProf: Error: "BuyMeLinuxNetworkPrinter" is not a valid command.
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| 23:44 | <TheProf> cheap bot too! :)
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| 23:44 | <nubae> your warranty was not valid cause it thinks u tried to put it near a windoze machine :p
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| 23:45 | <TheProf> :) this printer has a grand total of 32 kb onboard ROM. it barely knows it's a printer without a windows machine
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| 23:47 | * nubae plays the abiword dependency game | |
| 23:47 | <nubae> oh what fun building from source is
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| 23:47 | I cant believe gentooers do this for the sheer pleasure of it
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| 23:48 | <dberkholz> you're doing LFS if you're playing dependency games
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| 23:48 | gentoo takes care of the hard part
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| 23:49 | <nubae> well its just abiword... so yes, its not the gentoo way, but the journey is more or less the same distance
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| 23:50 | this is actually where Fedora is a bit nicer... its packages are named more rationally
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| 23:58 | <cyberorg> all distros should be forced to use the same package names, makes everyone's life so much easier
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