IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 27 December 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 11:08 | <markit> alkisg: hi :) I added a comment in my bug (no one has replied to it so far) about the strange IP is assigned https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093088
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| 11:08 | do you know any particular reason why that strange 127.0.0.2 has been used?
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| 11:08 | <alkisg> Hi markit
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| 11:09 | No, but I don't know why Ubuntu is using 127.0.1.1 either
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| 11:09 | * markit missed alkisg so much these days, lol | |
| 11:09 | <markit> alkisg: debian too
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| 11:09 | <alkisg> Other distros put the hostname at 127.0.0.1
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| 11:09 | <markit> I remember was a gnome problem
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| 11:09 | <alkisg> 127.0.0.1 host host.domain localhost
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| 11:09 | I think I once saw a debian bug about it
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| 11:09 | <markit> gnome people insisted to use that address to know "local host" name and FQDN if no static address is used
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| 11:09 | <alkisg> (or maybe ubuntu bug, not sure)
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| 11:10 | If you can find a bug report that mentions 127.0.1.1, I can commit the change
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| 11:10 | <markit> mm should be IP FQDN hostname, not IP FQDN hostname localhost...
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| 11:10 | alkisg: lol, you are putting my desires up side down
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| 11:11 | I would like ltsp to follow the "debian way", not to subvert it
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| 11:11 | <alkisg> Haha... I don't know why either of them was selected
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| 11:11 | So I can't change it "because debian does it that way"
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| 11:11 | <markit> so use 127.0.1.1 not 127.0.0.*2*
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| 11:11 | <alkisg> LTSP is cross distro
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| 11:11 | <markit> alkisg: I've never seen such a 127.0.0.*2*, do you?
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| 11:12 | <alkisg> No, but I guess that the ltsp devs that put it there saw it somewhere
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| 11:12 | So in order to change that, I need some reason
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| 11:12 | "because debian does it that way" is good enough to do it that way when implementing something new, but not to change something that already exists without bug reports against it
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| 11:12 | And I don't think 127.0.2.2 is causing any bugs
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| 11:13 | In short, let's find a bug report that suggests WHY debian should use 127.0.1.1
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| 11:14 | <markit> now I've got
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| 11:14 | I'll dig further :)
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| 11:14 | * markit needs alkisg wisdom | |
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| 11:14 | * alkisg doesn't have any wisdom to offer, other than "don't marry too young" :P | |
| 11:18 | <alkisg> g
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| 11:18 | <markit> lol
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| 11:19 | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch05.en.html#s-net-dns
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| 11:19 | The IP address 127.0.1.1 in the second line of this example may not be found on some other Unix-like systems. The Debian Installer creates this entry for a system without a permanent IP address as a workaround for some software (e.g., GNOME) as documented in the bug #316099.
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| 11:20 | http://bugs.debian.org/316099
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| 11:20 | alkisg: is it what you need?
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| 11:20 | <alkisg> Reading...
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| 11:20 | <markit> is a 2005 stuff...
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| 12:04 | <MonkWitDaFunk> hi ppl of ltsp channel, is it possible to network boot a wireless laptop?
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| 12:06 | does.the linux terminal server project make it possible?
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> MonkWitDaFunk: it's possible to netboot it, although hard, but it's not worth it, as the bandwidth it too low for usage after boot
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| 12:24 | <MonkWitDaFunk> ok. thanks. im totally new to network booting. my friend calls it pixie booting
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| 12:25 | where i recycle, we pixie boot our clients to run badblocks and memtest86
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| 12:28 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, hi!
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| 12:28 | <Hyperbyte> Got LTSP running nicely with NFS homedirs
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| 12:28 | ....
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| 12:28 | Anyway, I can login from multiple computers at the same time, in the same homedir... all works fine too
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| 12:29 | Except Firefox refuses to be started twice, on different computers, because it says it's already running somewhere
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| 12:29 | I wonder if anyone knows a workaround
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| 12:33 | <vlt> Hyperbyte: Its called chromium.
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| 12:35 | Hyperbyte: But it's the same with OO/LO or Thunderbird,, isn't it?
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| 12:37 | <Hyperbyte> Thunderbird I'm not using
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| 12:37 | LibreOffice asks if I want to continue anyways, so not an issue
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| 12:37 | Firefox refuses to start.
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| 12:37 | And Office is not so much of an issue, this is for the radio station....
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| 12:37 | I have three PC's in front of me
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| 12:38 | (work screens near the mixing desk)
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| 12:38 | Chances of me needing Office more than once are very slim
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| 12:38 | Chances of me wanting to open three different webpages on all three PC's are pretty big
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| 12:38 | Anyway, I've done some hack... we'll see how it goes
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| 12:38 | Before Firefox starts, a small script removes the lockfiles from the home dir.
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| 12:39 | It might screw up some session settings not being stored, but I don't care much about that.
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| 12:46 | <alkisg> MonkWitDaFunk: "where i recycle, we pixie boot our clients to run badblocks and memtest86 " ==> it'll be much easier if you just put those in a bootable CD or USB stick
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| 12:47 | Hyperbyte: logging in with the same users/home dir is not recommented, as other programs also have problems with that
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| 12:47 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, yeah, I know it's not, but I really don't have much choice.
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| 12:47 | Or at least I don't think I do.
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| 12:47 | <alkisg> Why not? Maybe there's some better way to organize things...
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| 12:47 | <MonkWitDaFunk> wouldnt badblocks run faster if you network booted from a good computer
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| 12:48 | <Hyperbyte> Three computers, standing nex to eachother, and I want the same user profiles on all three. How would you do it?
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| 12:48 | *next
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| 12:48 | <alkisg> MonkWitDaFunk: the program would be loaded in the computer ram, so it would run at the same speed no matter how you load it
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| 12:48 | And netbooting over wireless does require some local storage first
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| 12:48 | So you'd have to use a CD or a usb stick anyways
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| 12:49 | <MonkWitDaFunk> ok. thank you
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| 12:49 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: same user profiles... does that mean that any changes are lost after logout?
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| 12:49 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, no
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| 12:50 | I log in as janmiddelkoop on three computers before I start my program.
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| 12:50 | Four if you include the one where I prepare my program before going live.
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| 12:50 | <MonkWitDaFunk> badblacks is run as linux
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: so, suppose you visit some web pages with firefox, and it saves them on logout
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| 12:51 | If you logout from pc #1, it saves them. Then if you logout from pc #2, it saves them, overwriting the ones from pc #1.
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| 12:51 | <Hyperbyte> That's the only downside.
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> And you don't mind about problems like that, but you do want other data synced?
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| 12:51 | <Hyperbyte> Preferably that wouldn't happen, preferably it would save them both.
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| 12:51 | But I think that's not going to happen.
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| 12:51 | So right now, I don't mind those problems, but I want as much synced as possible.
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| 12:51 | <alkisg> Not the only... e.g. you might even have settings corruption, with the gconf database being completely broken etc
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| 12:52 | Programs are not designed for that usage scenario
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| 12:52 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, only some I think.
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| 12:52 | <alkisg> So you want synced as much stuff as you can get, or just the actual files, and not the settings?
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| 12:52 | <Hyperbyte> dconf database corruption I haven't seen yet... but that's dconf, not gconf.
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| 12:52 | alkisg, settings too.
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| 12:53 | <alkisg> I think dconf would be prone to settings corruption too, if you have 2 user dgonf daemons listening there
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| 12:53 | It depends on the implementation
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| 12:54 | <Hyperbyte> Haven't seen it happen yet... and everyone at the radio station does this.
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| 12:54 | <alkisg> And of course some programs might even fail to start
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| 12:54 | <Hyperbyte> With sshfs it wasn't a problem, probably because locking works differently there
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| 12:54 | But with NFS, Firefox locks the homedir down across computers.
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| 12:54 | <alkisg> E.g. suppose "tuxpaint" locks ~/.tuxpaint/settings, and then you try to run it again, it won't launch because the settings file is locked (just an example, not a real one)
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| 12:54 | <MonkWitDaFunk> hey ppl of ltsp. i think the linux terminal server project is perfect for the light industrial setting
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| 12:55 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah, but the software we use is pretty straightforward. Firefox, OpenOffice, rdesktop/vnc. Basically it. I know it's not ideal, but from a user perspective, this is the best solution I think.
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> So what if 2 users open the same openoffice document at once, and try to save it?
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| 12:55 | user #1 changes are lost?
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| 12:56 | <MonkWitDaFunk> file server?
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| 12:57 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it's one user though
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| 12:57 | I can't edit one file on two computers at the same time
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| 12:57 | Well I suppose I could, but then it would be my own fault
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| 12:57 | Everybody has their own account, they just use it multiple times
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| 12:57 | <markit> alkisg: btw, yesterday I logged as user "marco", then rebooted the client, relogged as "marco" but the gnome-fallback desktop "froze" (just the wall paper displayed, not menu etc), is the bug about some daemon not quitting you told me time ago? Is just a matter of "slay" user from server to fix when doing experiments?
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| 12:58 | * alkisg needs to go urgently, bbl... | |
| 12:59 | <Hyperbyte> Bye!
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| 12:59 | <markit> bye alkisg :)
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| 12:59 | alkisg has left IRC (alkisg!~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg, Quit: Leaving.) | |
| 12:59 | <markit> Hyperbyte: we are alone now... ;P
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| 13:03 | <MonkWitDaFunk> hey. i think running from a usb is a good idea. one of these days i hope to boot over a network
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| 14:01 | <markit> MonkWitDaFunk: "from an usb"?
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| 14:01 | btw, if you use FedoraProject, they have a "multi head" GNU/Linux server solution
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| 14:02 | sorry, multiseat
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| 14:02 | <MonkWitDaFunk> yes. ive worked with memtest86 and badblocks on nodes that network booted. it.should be possible to.run the same.thing from a usb
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| 15:35 | <Hyperbyte> markit, actually, YOU were alone, because I left too. ;-)
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| 15:35 | <markit> Hyperbyte: ;P
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| 15:39 | anyone tried "berry terminal"? thin client with raspberry pi. I have an error during boot, can't read sd card. If I plug the sd on my pc, in effect can't read the second partition
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| 15:40 | could be that a 16GB sd is not supported?
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| 16:11 | <MonkWitDaFunk> wow. the rasberry pi uses sd cards as secondary memory?
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| 16:14 | <||cw> markit: could be a bad card
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| 16:14 | MonkWitDaFunk: as in swap? what else would it use?
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| 16:15 | rpi's are weak on the ram. cubbieboard is a better value
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| 16:15 | though less mature in OS support, but it's getting there
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| 16:15 | <markit> ||cw: maybe I'd better # sync after dd, I just waited and had no blinking led
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| 16:15 | <||cw> markit: yes.
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| 16:15 | <markit> MonkWitDaFunk: as primary memory
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| 16:16 | ||cw: do you have both? Rp and cubieboard?
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| 16:16 | <||cw> no, but I've seen them both
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| 16:19 | <MonkWitDaFunk> is the RP and cubieboard considered supercomputers?
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| 16:19 | <||cw> um, no. just the opposite
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| 16:21 | supercomputers are the size of a room and can emulate all the intricacies of weather patterns and run predictions on possibilities for several days of weather in a couple hours
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| 16:21 | like, 1000 iterations or something
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| 16:26 | <MonkWitDaFunk> can sd cards use the scsi interface?
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| 16:31 | i guess not
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| 16:33 | <muppis> Depends from controllerchip.
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| 16:45 | <MonkWitDaFunk> the controller chip? i noticed that dban detected my usb flash drive as a 4gb scsi kingston. can you further explain the controller.chip?
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| 16:49 | <autoditac> hey all. is it possible to make ltsp-cluster use NX for local connections as well
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| 16:50 | i.e., by default?
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| 16:50 | !nx
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| 16:50 | <ltsp> nx: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#NX or http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/FreeNX
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| 16:50 | <markit> autoditac: I think is much slower than direct LDM
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| 16:51 | <autoditac> markit, sure?
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| 16:51 | <markit> yes
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| 16:51 | well, kind of ;P
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| 16:51 | <autoditac> really can't imagine
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| 16:52 | <markit> btw, o2x or something like that is available in ltsp as "plugin"?
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| 16:58 | <autoditac> markit, what would be the strategy: to install nxclient in the chroot and launch that on screen_07?
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| 16:59 | <markit> autoditac: I've no idea, sorry
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| 16:59 | but probably like that
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| 16:59 | then start complaining because of the performance drop ;P
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| 16:59 | autoditac: do you have LDM_DIRECT=True in your lts.conf?
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| 17:00 | <autoditac> i have
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| 17:00 | <markit> gbit switch? server with 2 bonded nic?
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| 17:00 | (or more)
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| 17:01 | <autoditac> i have gbit and just a single user on my server - i am just testing for now.
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| 17:01 | <markit> a good switch that does not have the anti-flooding active?
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| 17:02 | ah, well, performances of the X-Window should not be a problem of bandwidth so
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| 17:02 | thin or fat client?
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| 17:02 | <autoditac> thin client
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| 17:02 | the roundtrips are the problem
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| 17:07 | !dualscreen
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| 17:07 | <ltsp> Error: "dualscreen" is not a valid command.
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| 17:07 | <autoditac> hmmm.
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| 17:07 | <markit> autoditac: really freenx will do more harm than benefit
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| 17:08 | <autoditac> should ltsp discover multiple screens automagically or is there some extra configuration neccessary?
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| 17:08 | <markit> freenx is born to reduce bandwidth and roundtrip in low performance connections
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| 17:09 | autoditac: I've no idea, maybe you'd better switch to Fat client config
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| 17:18 | <||cw> MonkWitDaFunk: dban is linux based, and so whatever linux driver is being used to access the sd card is emulating a scsi interface for the standard linux scsi stack to make their work easier
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| 17:21 | <MonkWitDaFunk> seems like.all usb connections are detected as scsi
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| 17:25 | <||cw> most linux storage drivers do these days
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| 17:25 | it's easier to interface with the iscsi stack than to maintain code to supply the block device directly
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> autoditac: markit is right, on LAN, X performs much better than NX, you can even see video without dropped frames with plain X.
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| 17:26 | <||cw> note my wording though. it's not "detected as scsi", ans it isn't scsi, it's just using the linux scsi storage stack
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| 17:27 | * markit knows he is right because remembers alkisg told you so about NX long time ago | |
| 17:28 | <||cw> NX is good for low bandwidth and/or high latency use cases
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| 17:29 | <autoditac> well, unity (even -2d) is no joy to use in a thin-client setup
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| 17:30 | especially the hud
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| 17:31 | <markit> kde works fine as thin client once you force color depth (ltsp would default to 16bpp and plasma would look corrupted), or use gnome-fallback
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| 17:31 | would love to know if someone has tried lxdm or better xfce
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| 17:40 | <||cw> wasn't there some talk of officially switching ltsp to lxdm?
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| 17:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc is using LTSP with LXDE
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| 17:41 | I don't know about any "official" plans though... ltsp devs seem scattered nowadays
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| 17:43 | <ltspuser_04> Hello There!
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| 17:44 | <||cw> mornin
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| 17:45 | <ltspuser_04> Can anyone tell me if it is possible to enable the rdp redirection from a ltsp server to a windows server
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| 17:46 | <effenberg> ummm
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| 17:49 | <||cw> ltspuser_04: redirect in what way?
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| 17:53 | <ltspuser_04> I what to have the possibility to boot both ubuntu and windows
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| 17:53 | <markit> alkisg: I've installed lxde and seems really to use few ram, but xfce creators says that is just because it misses a lot of stuff xfce has, and if you add those xfce is not worse. Also since I use KDE programs a lot, would love to see if Razor-QT DE will evolve
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| 17:53 | <ltspuser_04> like this example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJmMcNPBgig
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| 17:53 | <markit> http://razor-qt.org/
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| 17:53 | <||cw> ltspuser_04: can't do video's here.
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| 17:54 | <ltspuser_04> search for "LTSP to Windows Terminal Server (RDP)"
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| 17:54 | <||cw> ltsp has an rdesktop "screen" that can directly to a windows rdp. you can set up an ltsp menu to let you choose linux or windows
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| 17:54 | <ltspuser_04> That seems good
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| 17:55 | how can i do it?
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| 17:55 | <||cw> in lts.conf
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| 17:55 | <ltspuser_04> i have been searching for documentation but i cant seem to find it
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| 17:55 | do you have an example?
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| 17:55 | <||cw> use the MENU_ITEM* and MENU_COMMAND* directives
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| 17:56 | gotta run, bbl
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| 17:58 | <markit> ltspuser_04: I've some old note about setting the client do directly (and only) to rdp server with
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| 17:59 | SCREEN_07 = "rdesktop -f -d domain -u '' -r sound:local"
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| 17:59 | RDP_SERVER = "10.1.1.10"
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| 17:59 | or something like that, just in case it's of any help for you
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| 17:59 | (parameters for lts.conf file)
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| 18:00 | <effenberg> like in the video, yeah
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| 18:00 | <alkisg> markit: It's true that lxde is missing stuff, but I'm not sure if we do care about the stuff it misses. E.g. we don't even need network manager, and logout inhibitors might even be bad for schools, etc
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| 18:00 | <effenberg> man rdesktop
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| 18:20 | <ltspuser_04> I have the ubuntu running great but when i put the lts.conf file noting boots
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| 18:21 | here's what i have:
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| 18:21 | [DEFAULT] SCREEN_07 = rdesktop RDP_SERVER = server SYSLOG_HOST= server [00:0C:29:7C:85:3F] SCREEN_07 = rdesktop -f 192.168.1.30 RDP_SERVER = "192.168.1.30" SYSLOG_HOST= server
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| 18:25 | <knipwim> ltspuser_04: so the client before you changed the lts.conf?
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| 18:25 | ltspuser_04: erm, the client booted before you changed it
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| 18:27 | <ltspuser_04> yes
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| 18:27 | ubuntu boots ok
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| 18:28 | after checking the syslog file ive found that it cant find the /etc/ltsp/ndb-server.allow file
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| 18:28 | could that be the problem?
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| 18:29 | <knipwim> probably not
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| 18:29 | it should mount the nbd without it
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| 18:31 | right? you see the client mounting the nbd in the server log?
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| 18:31 | <ltspuser_04> no
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| 18:31 | sorry
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| 18:31 | it seems that is ok
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| 18:32 | It says authorized client
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| 18:32 | starting to serve
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| 18:32 | Size of exported file(device.....
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| 18:32 | <knipwim> kk
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| 18:32 | <ltspuser_04> and nothing else
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| 18:32 | <alkisg> ltspuser_04: rdesktop is not installed in the chroot by default, either install it manually or use the preinstalled xfreerdp
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| 18:33 | <ltspuser_04> but if i run the rdesktop command in the server terminal i cant enter the windows
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| 18:33 | <alkisg> can't, or can?
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| 18:34 | <ltspuser_04> can
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| 18:34 | <markit> alkisg: confused... install or use preinstalled?
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| 18:34 | <ltspuser_04> sorry :D
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| 18:34 | <markit> ah, I see
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| 18:34 | <ltspuser_04> installed
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| 18:34 | i have manually installed it with apt-get
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| 18:34 | <markit> btw, xfreerdp ins't the new project much better than rdesktop?
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| 18:34 | <alkisg> ltspuser_04: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l rdesktop
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| 18:35 | markit: Yes xfreerdp is the newer and better rdp client
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| 18:35 | <ltspuser_04> root@strong-virtual-machine:~# sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg -l rdesktop Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Architecture Description +++-==============-============-============-================================= un rdesktop <none>
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> ltspuser_04: right, you don't have it installed in your chroot
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| 18:36 | Use xfreerdp
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| 18:36 | It's already in your chroot
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| 18:37 | <ltspuser_04> do i have to rebuild the client image?
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| 18:37 | <markit> alkisg: is there a way to have multiple fat chroot (i.e. one with kde, one with gnome, one with lxde) and choose where boot easely?
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| 18:37 | <alkisg> vagrantc: r2420 fixes ltsp-cleanup on ltsp servers that are ldap clients... without it, it just breaks, but doesn't cause any harm, so I'd consider it low priority
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| 18:37 | ltspuser_04: no, just search the irclogs here for the xfreerdp command line
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| 18:38 | markit: sure, you just need a different nbdroot= kernel command line, either with a pxelinux menu or with by mac address
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| 18:39 | <markit> I've no idea where nbdroot is set, also wondering about /var/lib/tftpboot... I will have multiple entries
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| 18:41 | <alkisg> nbdroot is set in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 18:42 | And you'd need configuration files in /etc/nbd-server/conf.d/*
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| 18:42 | They should be automatically created if you generate more chroots
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| 18:42 | <ltspuser_04> right
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| 18:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ok, that's good. i worried it might delete the ldap users or something :)
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| 18:44 | <ltspuser_04> i forgot to mention im running lubuntu and not ubuntu
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| 18:44 | is that a problem
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| 18:45 | ?
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| 18:45 | it seems that xfreerdp is not in the chroot
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| 18:51 | <markit> mmm RazorQT desktop uses only 566MB, wow
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> ltspuser_04: then you'd need to install it
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| 18:51 | <markit> (live cd, not ltsp)
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| 18:51 | <alkisg> Only 566 ram?
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| 18:52 | <markit> yep, free -m
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> And that's "only"?!
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| 18:52 | :D
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| 18:52 | <markit> lol
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| 18:52 | <alkisg> markit: check the second line, not the first one
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| 18:52 | The one with -/+ buffers/cache in front
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| 18:52 | <markit> ops, used 143MB????
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> Yup, that's more like it
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| 18:53 | <markit> that's stunning indeed
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| 18:53 | * markit needs to learn some basics | |
| 18:53 | <markit> I was happy with "only" 566 lol
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> Well, that means that it wouldn't run with 128 mb ram... while lubuntu does run there
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| 18:54 | Is that with just the desktop loaded?
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| 18:54 | Or with a browser etc?
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| 18:54 | <markit> never find a decent client (decent to run as fat) with less than 512MB in "my" schools
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| 18:54 | just desktop, but if you want I run kde "just desktop" and we can compare
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> You don't have P4 clients with 1.7 GHz CPU and 256 RAM?
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| 18:54 | <markit> no, 512 with XP pro
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| 18:55 | <alkisg> 512 can still benefit from low-ram distros
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| 18:55 | <markit> yes, expecially since kde needs more than 768
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| 18:55 | ;P
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| 18:56 | btw, FF in my desktop is using 480MB right now... that is odd
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> Odd, why?
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| 18:56 | <markit> 15 tabs open
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| 18:56 | well it eats 3 times the GNU/Linux + RazorQT
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| 18:56 | just to display 15 web pages?
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| 18:57 | <vagrantc> that's firefox.
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| 18:57 | free software bloats too, just slower.
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| 18:59 | <markit> vagrantc: hi, how is lxde working?
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| 19:00 | vagrantc: and since you are "on the debian side", just would like your opinion on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/1093088
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| 19:04 | <vagrantc> markit: lxde works fine
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| 19:05 | markit: no real opinion on the bug
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| 19:05 | <markit> vagrantc: works well "out of the box", no special settings / fine tunings / etc? Did you tried xfce also?
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> haven't tried xfce, lxde requires no special tweaks
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| 19:08 | no sane desktop environment *should* require tweaks just to work with LTSP, but many are broken.
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| 19:08 | xubuntu requires some tweaks to get the desktop to properly show up as xubuntu rather than plain xfce
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| 19:09 | although xubuntu implements it's desktop kinda wonkishly
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| 19:09 | i.e. it configures the desktop you want on first login, so if you select xfce at first login, you'll get xfce even if you select xubuntu at later logins, and vice-versa.
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| 19:10 | but that's not LTSP specific
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| 19:11 | <markit> I see, thanks
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| 19:12 | * vagrantc hasn't tried with lubuntu, but worries it may have the same sort of problem. | |
| 19:29 | <||cw> markit: firefox caches aggressively
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| 19:30 | <markit> ||cw: uhm, was thinking about memory leaks instead
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| 19:30 | <||cw> some extensions do have leaks
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| 19:30 | <markit> wondering what is the reasoning of having my desktop swap like a mad since ff is caching...
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| 19:31 | <||cw> chrome does it too, but chrome lets go of cache ram in a more sane manner
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| 19:31 | in chrome you can also "kill" a single tab if something on it is leaking
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| 19:51 | <markit> is firefox-gnome-support needed for unity too?
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| 20:02 | alkisg: do you install kdedu even if you use gnome-fallback? In general, do you install kde programs or fear a bloat of libraries and slow down?
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| 20:34 | mmm kde 4.10 in 13.04, desktop + terminal, free says 264MB...
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| 20:35 | so it should be able to run with 512MB, just FF is not, lol
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| 20:36 | alkisg: are you sure that the right line is the second one? seems that kde + libo writer eating only 294 (so LiBo only 30MB???) is too low
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| 20:39 | <||cw> I install what I need to install. storage is cheap. I don't worry about it
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| 20:42 | <markit> ||cw: but if you load a gtk program + a kde one, each will have big libs to carry with
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| 20:43 | <||cw> yes, but if it's what you need, it's what you do.
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| 20:46 | <markit> ok
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| 20:47 | maybe I just have to "map" programs that exist in kde with gtk equivalent IF available, and use kde ones if not
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| 20:47 | or maybe kde programs run and look just fine in Gnome/Unity/gtk
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| 20:48 | <||cw> they do
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| 20:48 | but depending on the app, it might start a bunch of kde helper services, or not
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| 20:49 | when it does, that's when you notice the ram usage
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| 20:58 | <markit> mm rerun kubuntu 13.04 kde 4.10 with 512MB ram (it's a VM). Free -m shows free memory, no swap, but the system seems far slower
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| 20:59 | also changing tast from Write, to Calc, to Terminal takes some seconds
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| 20:59 | while with 1,5GB was snappy
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| 20:59 | how can I find what's wrong?
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| 21:00 | I mean, I just reduced memory and free shows still free one available, and no swap (well, it's a live cd...)
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| 21:03 | <alkisg> (10:02:29 μμ) markit: alkisg: do you install kdedu even if you use gnome-fallback? In general, do you install kde programs or fear a bloat of libraries and slow down?
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| 21:03 | ==> we only install kolourpaint in high school, because there's no gnome equivalent... we generally avoid kdeedu, but if some teacher needs it, he installs it in his local installation
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| 21:04 | <markit> do you have a list of programs you usually install? maybe I can find in sh-school scripts?
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> markit: live CDs use compcache or zram, i.e. compressed swap
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| 21:04 | <||cw> markit: what vm? proper video drivers?
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| 21:05 | <markit> ||cw: well, the same VM, so the same video driver. First run with 1500MB, then with 512MB
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> markit: we have 5 Gb of greek educational apps packaged in .deb, in repositories
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| 21:05 | <||cw> ah
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| 21:05 | <markit> so the only difference is in RAM, but sine free -m shows free ram available, why on earth is that so slower? :)
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| 21:05 | <alkisg> markit: check what schools in italy use.. and try to package them as .debs
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| 21:05 | <||cw> well, less ram will cache less, and this hit the hdd more
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| 21:06 | <markit> alkisg: mmm now I remember that you package windows programs to be run in wine, correct?
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> Either that, or flash apps which run natively
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| 21:06 | Or java apps which also run natively
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| 21:07 | <markit> ||cw: I'm just switching from one program to the other, and since I have free ram (not used by cache) should work fine (well, free line shows only '4' as free)
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| 21:07 | alkisg: ok, thought just a list of normal package like I have for kde, but for gnome, never mind :)
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| 21:08 | <||cw> and it's nto swapping, or you have no swap?
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| 21:08 | <markit> is a live cd, how can I tell? the free -m line about swap says "0"
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| 21:08 | both as used than as free
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| 21:09 | so seems no swap available, afaiu, even if alkisg says that uses a zram one
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| 21:09 | <||cw> k, so when you have no swap, and you push up on the ram limits, the kernel does all sorts of cheating to prevent from panicing and things will get very slow
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| 21:09 | <alkisg> Maybe their swap stopped working with the compache => zram change
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| 21:10 | <||cw> ah, zram too... check your cpu usage
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| 21:10 | <markit> so I'd better test in a "real" VM instead of live cd
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| 21:11 | <||cw> or add a vdisk and make some swap
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| 21:11 | or yes, a read install
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| 21:11 | real^
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| 21:13 | <markit> my real life installations on HW pc is that KDE does not work well if less than 1GB, but seems that it does use far less beliving free, I'll investigate further
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| 21:13 | thanks a lot for the tips
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| 21:14 | * markit still wonders why needs 512MB just to browse around | |
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