IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 19 February 2021 (all times are UTC)

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10:09	<bobby8> Hi there. There is a strange issue with my LTSP instance. Each time I update the image, the first client that logs in will have its configuration broken. I.e. on the next login, some of the desktop settings are gone and the desktop has to be recreated or replaced from a backup. This is only the first client that connects after the image has been
10:09	updated (no matter who it is).
10:09	Any idea what's going on? Which log should I check?
10:10	<alkisg> bobby8: nothing comes to mind that would cause that
10:10	Is this the new ltsp?
10:10	<bobby8> Yes
10:10	<alkisg> The output of `mount` at that time, would be useful
10:11	I could also see via reverse-vnc if you'd like
10:11	<bobby8> mount at what time?
10:11	<alkisg> At the first broken login
10:11	On the client itself
10:12	<bobby8> I usually find the broken login when logging on on the server itself.
10:13	<alkisg> I didn't get that
10:13	So you log on in a client as user1
10:13	Then you logout, and you login as administrator on the server
10:13	You run ltsp image, then you logout
10:13	<bobby8> My procedure is as follows: I update the image, then I walk to one of the client machines to see if everything is fine. I log on to one of the accounts on the client, shut it down again. When I log on to that account on the server, the desktop is gone.
10:14	<alkisg> Then you login as user1 on the server, and the settings are broken?
10:15	In some cases I've seen people run `sudo app` and thus change ~/.config/dconf, all the settings, to be owned by root
10:15	This then causes the settings to be inaccessible by the user
10:15	And in similar cases, corrupted dconf instead of wrong permissions
10:15	That's all that comes to mind. If you do have a broken profile, we could test that theory.
10:15	<bobby8> As one would expect... but I was not even aware of that command.
10:16	<alkisg> You've never used sudo?
10:16	E.g. sudo gedit, could cause that problem
10:16	<bobby8> you wrote "app", I expected that to be a command I don't know
10:16	<alkisg> app means "any application"
10:17	Sorry I was being brief
10:17	<bobby8> When this occurs, I just log in on the client and shut it down again. I don't do anything else.
10:17	<alkisg> Are you using the default sshfs for mounting /home?
10:18	<bobby8> The first couple of times this happened, I copied the desktop configuration back from a backup. I thing I would have noticed if some of the files would have been owned by root...
10:18	Everything is plain LTSP, so yes, this should be sshfs.
10:19	<alkisg> Which distro/version/flavor?
10:19	<bobby8> Kubuntu 20.04
10:19	<alkisg> Ah, so no dconf-based but kde-settings-something-based (not using KDE, although it seems nice)
10:20	I've heard of some caching problems of kde in the past, that it's putting things in /var/cache instead of in ~/.cache
10:20	And that some people were disabling cache to optimize things
10:20	I don't have enough experience to advice though, I'd need to check via vnc when the problem occurs
10:21	*enough experience with kde
10:21	<bobby8> Are you saying that disabling cache might cause it or fix it?
10:21	<alkisg> It's an idea, yeah
10:22	<bobby8> What strikes me most is that it only happens on the first login after updating the image.
10:22	I have never seen this on any other occasion.
10:22	<alkisg> Maybe kde stores a "cache counter" at /var/cache/something, and it goes in the image, and then kde again tries to match ~/.cache with /var/cache/something
10:23	So after it updates ~/.cache once, everything is good again
10:23	It's too much guesswork, it needs hands-on work
10:23	<bobby8> I see
10:25	Hold on... I'll be trying something
10:30	On the other hand... if it is a caching problem, why doesn't it happen on each account once after updating the image?
10:32	Is it suficcient to run "ltsp kernel"?
10:32	sorry
10:32	ltsp image
10:39	<alkisg> bobby8: it only happens on the first account that you connect, where, to EACH pc (so many accounts) or to ANY pc (so one account)?
10:40	<bobby8> I have a server with three accounts so anyone can work on the server or any of the clients.
10:41	It does neither depend on the machine that is used nor on the account that logs on.
10:41	I tried to force it to happen right now, but it didn't happen... :-\|
10:41	<alkisg> So if user1 logs in to pc1, it's broken. If then user2 logs in to pc2, it's not broken?
10:41	<bobby8> Right
10:42	<alkisg> Yeah that doesn't make any sense at all
10:42	As users data don't communicate with each other
10:42	<bobby8> Or even if user2 log in to pc1 after user1 has logged off.
10:42	<alkisg> That could be explained, but what I said above, can't be
10:45	<bobby8> There is one thing that is different on a local and a remote shutdown:
10:46	When I close a local session, the log in xsession-errors goes:
10:46	kdeinit5: PID ... terminated
10:46	...
10:46	kdeinit5: terminate KDE
10:46	klauncher: Exiting on signal 1
10:47	Closing the remot session goes like this:
10:47	kdeinit5: PID ... terminated
10:47	...
10:47	klauncher: Exiting on signal 15
10:47	X connection to :0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdoen).
10:47	The X11 connection broke (error 1). Did the X11 server die?
10:50	<alkisg> That sounds like an abrupt logoff; it could explain /home/username getting corrupted; but not "only the first user"
10:52	<bobby8> Well, "Only the first user" is just my impression from experience. I have no proof that there is a real causality.
10:52	<alkisg> If it's a race/random condition, then yeah many events could explain it
10:54	<bobby8> There's another difference in handling: On the client, I usually shut the machine down from KDE once I'm done. I would not do that when I'm sitting in front of the server; I just log out in that case.
10:56	<alkisg> I don't think `ltsp image` is related then
10:56	Try this on the server and client: sudo -i; echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
10:56	This drops caches (same thing that ltsp image does), and the next time the server needs to read from disk, it won't have it in cache/ram, so it'll be a bit slower, so it might cause the race condition again
10:57	(ltsp image loads all the disk and image, so previous cache contents are replaced)
10:57	It might be some race condition in KDE, that gets more intense when /home is on the network
10:58	In which case, maybe switching to nfs home could help
10:58	(nfs is more stable than sshfs, yet insecure in its default setup)
11:08	<bobby8> Well, it didn't happen... But I have the "The X11 connection broke" three times in the log, plus:
11:08	kdeinit5: Fatal IO error: client killed
11:08	kdeinit5: sending SIGHUP to children
11:08	klauncher: Exiting on signal 1
11:08	epoptes-client got signal: 15, relaunching...
11:14	<alkisg> Anyway try to log off and THEN shutdown for a few days, is if it doesn't happen that way
11:14	If it doesn't, then it's some race condition with kde poweroff
11:14	*see if it doesn't happen...
11:15	<bobby8> I will watch this carefully and come back...
11:15	Thanks for now.
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