IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 April 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:52 | Nick change: sepski -> sep | |
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| 02:41 | <viks_> alkisg : i am still struggling with local hardisk detection on pxe boot
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| 02:41 | <alkisg> viks_: and not only that, it appears... didn't you report tftp problems some hours ago/
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| 02:41 | ?
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| 02:41 | dyllan_ (~dyllan@196-215-23-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) joined #ltsp. | |
| 02:41 | <alkisg> And also you tried edubuntu, ulteo and I don't know what else
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| 02:42 | If you assigned this to someone that knows that stuff, it could have it ready for you within 2-3 hours
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| 02:42 | IRC is not the way to solve your problem, it's too advanced for you
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| 02:42 | You either need to read about linux and ltsp for a few weeks, or assign your problem to someone that already knows those
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| 02:43 | You can't solve it in IRC
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| 02:43 | <dyllan_> alkisg, how u doin
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| 02:43 | <alkisg> Hi dyllan_
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| 02:43 | viks_: and btw I don't even think you need a browser, you can just run your java applet without a browser to save RAM + pain from the disk permissions
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| 02:44 | <viks_> what is way for it...
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| 02:45 | <alkisg> Answer me first, why are you trying to solve your problem with IRC, when you clearly see you can't?
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| 02:46 | It's been weeks now that you try to get something, but you don't know enough to even follow the advice that others give you here
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| 02:46 | <muppis> Am I missing something (maybe forgot to install during rebuild), but my Firefox as localapp is in English rather than being Finnsish?
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| 02:46 | <alkisg> Either do some heavy reading, or assign it to someone else. It's not working this way. You just waste your time and the people's here.
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| 02:46 | <viks_> alkisg : k i was trying pxe boot with local hardisk detection with ur irc support
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| 02:47 | <alkisg> Yes, that was weeks ago
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| 02:47 | <viks_> because we dont want to go for server storage
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| 02:47 | thats it
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| 02:48 | <dyllan_> alkisg, Do you know if it is possible to specify: acpi=off in the lts.conf file per thin client? I tried with MAC then X_OPTION_01 = "\"acpi=off\"" but it didnt work, and adding it to the tftpboot default file works only for some unfortunately!
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| 02:48 | <alkisg> viks_: OK, but it's been weeks that you're trying, and not going anywhere. It's too advanced for you.
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| 02:49 | dyllan_: you can add it in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/01-mac-address
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| 02:49 | cd to that directory
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| 02:49 | <dyllan_> alkisg, your a legend.
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| 02:49 | <alkisg> cp default 01-a1-b2-c3-d4-e5-f6
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| 02:49 | Where that 01- is standard, and a1-b2 etc are your client mac address
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| 02:50 | <dyllan_> thanks man that's perfect
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| 02:50 | <alkisg> Then modify that 01-... file so that it contains "acpi=off"
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| 02:50 | You're welcome
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| 02:50 | <dyllan_> and the format of the file, the same as default but obviously just append the kernel param acpi=off
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| 02:50 | ahh ok thnx, you type to fast ;)
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| 02:50 | <alkisg> Right
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| 02:51 | <dyllan_> much appreciated !
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| 02:52 | last question, the 01 which is default, does it count per new entry, so if i have another thin client to boot the same would i append 02 etc or still 01 for all?
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| 02:52 | <alkisg> 01- for all, it's the "type code for ethernet"
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| 02:52 | (wireless would probably get another number there, not sure)
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| 02:52 | <dyllan_> ok got it, legendary thanks
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| 02:54 | <alkisg> muppis: open a local xterm (ltsp-localapps xterm) and check your $LANG
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| 02:54 | If it's English, you can change it with a number of ways
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| 02:54 | If it's Finnish, you're missing some langpack
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| 03:02 | <muppis> alkisg, it is fi_FI.UTF-8
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| 03:02 | <alkisg> muppis: then you're missing the fi- langpack
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| 03:03 | language-pack-fi
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| 03:03 | On the server: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
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| 03:03 | dpkg -l '*language-*-fi*' | grep ^ii
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| 03:04 | Compare the output with the same command as ran outside of the chroot
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| 03:04 | And install the missing langpacks
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| 03:04 | (and ltsp-update-image, and reboot client etc etc)
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| 03:05 | <muppis> I tried to install to running client, but it didn't fix it, so that why I asked.
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| 03:06 | Is ltsp-manager out of date ? Just founded it and looking could it be useful.
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| 03:06 | <alkisg> Yes it's unmaintained
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| 03:06 | dpkg -L language-pack-fi-base|grep -i firefox ==>
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| 03:06 | /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/langpack-fi@firefox-3.6.ubuntu.com/chrome/fi.jar
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| 03:07 | That's where the translation is. Install language-pack-fi in the chroot.
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| 03:07 | (the -base is a dependency)
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| 03:07 | <muppis> Rebuilding image already.
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| 03:08 | <alkisg> (btw you're using ubuntu, right? not debian, if i remember correctly?)
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| 03:08 | <muppis> yes, Ubuntu.
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| 03:14 | Still out of luck.
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| 03:15 | fi.jar exist, so could it be some setting overriding?
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| 03:18 | Althought, nothing related set in lts.conf and ldm is in Finnish.
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| 03:26 | <alkisg> muppis: that lang variable that you saw, was it inside the local xterm, or was it on a normal xterm?
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| 03:26 | muppis: what does this tell you? cat /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/default/locale
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| 03:27 | <muppis> LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8
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| 03:27 | <alkisg> OK, let's try something else
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| 03:27 | Close the local firefox
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| 03:27 | Go to the local xterm
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| 03:27 | And run: LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8 firefox
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| 03:28 | Does firefox open localized this way?
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| 03:29 | <muppis> Nope. Even gedit doesn't start localized that way.
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| 03:29 | <alkisg> gedit shouldn't be available in the chroot
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| 03:29 | If it is, you're probably doing something wrong
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| 03:29 | <muppis> I installed it for testing.
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| 03:30 | <alkisg> Hmm ok, I guess that pulled all the gconf* stuff with it
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| 03:30 | I don't know how many thing would break with gconf running locally
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| 03:30 | <muppis> I did afterwards when noticed Firefox isn't in Finnish.
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| 03:33 | <alkisg> muppis: what's the output of those commands, if you run them on the local xterm?
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| 03:33 | hostname; env | egrep '^LANG|^LC_' ; dpkg -l '*language-*-fi*' | grep ^ii
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| 03:34 | <muppis> http://pastebin.com/7WWHz9xF
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| 03:34 | Odd, isn't it?
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| 03:35 | <alkisg> It should be "UTF-8", not "utf8", there was a bug about it
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| 03:36 | Again on the local xterm, try:
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| 03:36 | unset LANGUAGE
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| 03:36 | export LANG=fi_FI.UTF-8
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| 03:36 | firefox
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| 03:36 | Still english?
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| 03:37 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 03:37 | <alkisg> Hehe stubborn problem
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| 03:37 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 03:38 | Getting frustrated.
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| 03:38 | <alkisg> There are a few more things I'd try like gettext or strace, but it's difficult to do those over IRC. If you want to share a vnc session with that client, it'd be easier (no port forwarding needed)
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| 03:38 | <muppis> aptitude is in Finnish.
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| 03:39 | I can try.
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| 03:40 | <alkisg> apt-get install x11vnc
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| 03:40 | x11vnc -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 03:59 | muppis: you don't have finnish on firefox on the server either
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| 04:00 | It doesn't look to be a localapps problem
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| 04:00 | Can you get finnish on firefox, if e.g. you sit on the server?
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| 04:00 | Or on a live CD without LTSP?
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| 04:02 | <muppis> I don't have local access to server right now, it's in diffrerent building in 600 m away.
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| 04:04 | <alkisg> muppis: I'd try with a live cd. Firefox on the server doesn't see your language as an extension
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| 04:04 | E.g. it might be possible that the fi langpack for firefox is broken
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| 04:05 | <muppis> Ok, thanks. I'll try that.
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| 04:05 | <alkisg> (left vnc)
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| 04:05 | <muppis> And almost killed my kb. ;)
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| 04:05 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 04:06 | <muppis> Was out of sync in two windows, not big.
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| 04:06 | <alkisg> That x11vnc causes some problems. But until vino-server supports reverse connections, it's the only easy way to share a screen... :-/
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| 04:06 | <muppis> Been heard that.
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| 04:07 | Now I try that live CD.
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| 04:35 | <muppis> alkisg, funny. I replaced langpack-en-GB@... with langpack-fi@ and got it working. :)
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| 05:03 | <robehend11> say, if I build a 10.10 fat-client enviroment, and install Warsow on it, the clients should be able to run it fine, as long as they have the specs, correct?
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| 05:04 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 05:05 | <robehend11> Ah, good. Having a LAN party for the kids, and figured that would be a quick and easy way to deploy it
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| 09:03 | <jmarris> hi, all
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| 09:04 | does nbdroot work with any file types other than those made by ltsp-update-image
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| 09:04 | ?
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> jmarris: yes, but what do you mean exactly?
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| 09:15 | <jmarris> I misunderstood
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| 09:15 | I realize now that the .img files are squashfs files
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| 09:15 | I'm still trying to get android to netboot
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| 09:15 | got WinPE and fat and thin clients
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> Why?
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| 09:15 | <jmarris> just a pet project
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| 09:15 | it would be handy in schools where admins "think" that Windows is the be-all
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| 09:16 | but where students know Android and see their parents using it
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| 09:16 | <alkisg> Why android and not some desktop-oriented distro?
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| 09:16 | Android is not very usable for desktops
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| 09:16 | The students would hate it
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| 09:17 | (unless you have touch screens etc)
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| 09:18 | <jmarris> plus we could teach them some simple programming for android and they could test their programs
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| 09:18 | touch screens would be a simple addition once it's going
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| 09:18 | honestly, I just wanted to see it happen
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| 09:18 | <alkisg> Don't andoid programs get developed on "real" computers with some SDK?
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| 09:18 | <jmarris> then to try and make something more of it, hopefully
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| 09:18 | yeah
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| 09:19 | <alkisg> E.g. install some distro+ltsp and the andoid sdk and go ahead and program android apps... you can't even do that in android afaik
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| 09:19 | Isn't android available in a live cd?
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| 09:19 | <jmarris> so they could be done on Edubuntu, netbooted, the apk saved to the server, then installed to the student's "sd" card located on the server, then android booted with the student's app already on it
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| 09:19 | or even installed once it boots
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| 09:19 | it is
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> I tried it once on a VM, it was too slow and too ...empty to be useful
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| 09:20 | But you probably can serve the .iso over the network
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> Or you can have the students open android VMs over ltsp
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| 09:23 | <jmarris> I'm just curious how nbd and ramdisks work, so I'm trying to figure out how to convert a livecd iso to a working netbootable OS
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| 09:23 | I figure it's mainly a matter of placing the fs image files on the server, then telling the kernel how to mount them
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> It's not automatic. You need to modify the distro init scripts to make it boot over the network
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| 09:24 | So you need to dig into android boot scripts, and to make them look like "ltsp_nbd" from ltsp-upstream
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| 09:31 | <jmarris> system.sfs contains a file, system.img
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| 09:31 | does that make sense?
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| 09:32 | at least, when I mount it as loopback it does
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| 12:18 | <alkisg> So if nfs+tmpfs works with aufs, then we no longer need bind-mounts?
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| 12:20 | <vagrantc> it sounds tempting, but i wounldn't want to throw it away
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| 12:21 | ugly though it may be
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> Hmm I was thinking of adding alternative sources instead of that tmpfs
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> like aufs may not work on all architectures, for example
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> Either nbd copy-on-write, or even some local disk with some special volume label
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| 12:21 | Ah
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| 12:22 | * vagrantc will port Debian GNU/kFreeBSD to LTSP one of these days | |
| 12:22 | <vagrantc> nbd copy-on-write wouldn't require any aufs though, would it?
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> Not if it's used "alone", but if it's nbd root ro + nbd copy-on-write for tmpfs/swap, then it would require aufs
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> with local disk, you could just increase the size of the tmpfs and use swap partitions
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| 12:23 | <alkisg> A tmpfs is limited to the RAM size, isn't it?
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> no
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| 12:23 | defaults to half the ram, but you can set it to whatever you want, i'm fairly certain
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Ah it's limited to the address space now I remember
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i was able to do: mount -o size=200% -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt/
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| 12:25 | and it mounted with twice the ram i have
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| 12:26 | <alkisg> Right, address space = 4 Gb on i386
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> ah, right ... i.e. 32-bit would be limited to 4GB or some such
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| 12:26 | unless you used pae
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| 12:26 | <alkisg> I don't know if that applies to tmpfs
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> it mounted with 500% without complaint ...
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| 12:26 | <alkisg> But I thought I've seen tmpfs use some "real" ram, as opposed to `nbd-server -c`... I'll need to test more on that
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| 12:26 | <vagrantc> 5.6G on an i386
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| 12:27 | <alkisg> Uh. Weird.
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| 12:27 | <vagrantc> it does use real ram, but is free to swap it out
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| 12:27 | now, say i dump 5GB of data in there, maybe it'll crash
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| 12:27 | not going to test that right now :)
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| 12:27 | <alkisg> Hehe sure :)
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| 12:27 | Try 3 Gb :P
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| 12:28 | * vagrantc didn't know about size=XX% | |
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> Heh, it seems to work: mount -o size=40G -t tmpfs tmpfs /mnt
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| 12:45 | <vagrantc> so it's not limited by the size?
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| 12:52 | <alkisg> It appears not to be.
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| 12:52 | Also, I just tried pushing its limits in a VM
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| 12:52 | I had 512 RAM + 512 swap. I created a 1 Gb tmpfs.
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| 12:53 | I wrote 768 Mb to it without problems, swap was used.
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| 12:56 | * vagrantc wonders about pushing the 4GB limit on a 32-bit system | |
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| 12:59 | <stgraber> vagrantc: I wouldn't do that and then create a >4GB file on it ;)
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> Btw, aufs over nfs/tmpfs is a great way to *see* which files need bind-mounting. You just boot an ltsp client and see the tmpfs contents.
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> stgraber: but that's what *experimenting* is all about :)
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| 12:59 | <alkisg> stgraber: wouldn't it work, given enough swap?
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| 13:00 | * alkisg tries it... | |
| 13:00 | <alkisg> (on a VM :D)
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| 13:00 | <stgraber> alkisg: well, I'm more worried of the whole "can't assign more than 4GB at a time" (even on PAE systems) and the possible OOM/oops/panic that might happen when doing it :)
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| 13:01 | <alkisg> OK, so, test case: (1) vbox vm with 512 ram, (2) a 5 Gb swap file, (3) a 5 Gb tmpfs, and (4) dd 4.5 Gb in /mnt/file ?
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| 13:02 | <stgraber> yep, that should do the trick
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| 13:03 | I guess it depends if tmpfs splits the file into two chunks in memory in that case, which would workaround the issue (and make sense considering the test you're doing). Otherwise it'll just fail misserably (OOM/oops/panic or if you're lucky a no space left on device) :)
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| 13:04 | <jammcq> alkisg: careful, you may just find the higs-boson particle
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> Hehe
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| 13:08 | Well, it worked like a charm
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| 13:08 | No complains at all
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| 13:09 | dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/file bs=$((1024*1024)) count=5000
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| 13:09 | <alkisg> df -h ==>
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| 13:09 | tmpfs 5,0G 4,9G 116M 98% /mnt
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| 13:11 | Erm, so why shouldn't we always use (half of the ram + all the swap size) for a tmpfs?
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| 13:11 | <vagrantc> to save it for something else?
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> It's used dynamically, no?
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| 13:12 | I.e. it's not wasted if not used...
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| 13:12 | <vagrantc> yes, but a DoS attack would be to consume as much ram+swap as possible
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| 13:12 | i mean, for our purposes, it might be fine...
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| 13:13 | it's just a limiting the damage sort of concern
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> I don't get it. If a dos attack manages to fill all the tmpfs, then the client is basically bricked, right?
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| 13:15 | <vagrantc> guess so
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| 13:15 | <alkisg> While, the opposite, if update-apt-xapian-index fills the tmpfs, it would make sense to have it larger, as it's not a dos attack...
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| 13:16 | * vagrantc really wants to carve out some time to test nfs+aufs | |
| 13:20 | * alkisg tried `apt-get update` on aufs over an ltsp thin chroot, it needed 36 Mb. So the cron `apt-get update` job wastes 36 Mb of tmpfs on ltsp clients... | |
| 13:20 | <alkisg> (that's one of the reasons I disable cron on schools here :D)
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| 13:20 | <vagrantc> it defaults to running?
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| 13:20 | <alkisg> Yes, I think weekly
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| 13:20 | But it's always been a week since ltsp-update-image ran :D
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| 13:20 | <vagrantc> on debian, i was pretty sure it defaulted to not run weekly
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| 13:21 | * alkisg tries apt-xapian-index... | |
| 13:22 | <alkisg> Ah it's only there on fat chroots
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| 13:24 | <alkisg> 71 Mb
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| 13:24 | So, 108 Mb for those 2 cron jobs. :-/
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| 13:32 | <dgroos> My server stopped serving. In the middle of class, all students' computers became unresponsive.
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| 13:32 | Luckily I could get to the server via iLO and was able to reboot the server.
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| 13:33 | <dgroos> Much to my surprise, even though I could nx to the server, it wouldn't boot the clients.
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| 13:34 | still can't boot the clients. During the boot process it will get a client IP, mask and dhcp ip and a gateway ip but then it says, PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout
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| 13:34 | TFTP....
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| 13:35 | and finally gives up. Any ideas? I updated and rebuilt the chroot but still same symptoms.
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| 13:41 | Any hints on how I troubleshoot this?
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| 13:44 | <efra> It's the tftp server running and listening?
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| 13:44 | <dgroos> efra: I'll figure out how to check and check it, thanks!
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| 13:46 | <efra> you can check with netstat -anlt
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| 13:48 | <dgroos> I tried the command you gave (the one I found gave no output) and got quite a few lines of output. I didn't see the letters, tftp on it though...
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| 13:50 | So... I tried to run this command I found: /etc/init.d/in.tftpd start, but 'no such file or directory'...
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| 13:50 | I'll keep searching!
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| 13:51 | <efra> The port tftp uses is 69. If you see a proccess listening on that port, then there you are
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| 13:52 | <dgroos> none on port 69...
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| 13:55 | <efra> So tftp is not running. You'll need to start it
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| 13:56 | <dgroos> I've been looking for a command to start it and can't find one that works... help anyone?
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| 13:57 | <muppis> Odd behaviour. Trying to set up client, but if psu doesn't have enough load whole system is unstable.
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| 13:57 | <stgraber> on Ubuntu until lucid it's started by inetd IIRC
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| 13:58 | so tftp should be mentioned in /etc/inetd.conf and "/etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd start" is how to start inetd if it's not running
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| 13:58 | <NeonLicht> dgroos, $ sudo invoke-rc.d tftpd start If you are using Debian or, maybe some derivatives.
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| 13:58 | Ah, no, it's true, it's controlled by inetd!
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| 13:58 | <vagrantc> "it's complicated"
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| 13:59 | <dgroos> stgraber: Thanks I'll try...
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| 13:59 | <vagrantc> tftpd-hpa is the default daemon that debian's ltsp-server package prefers ...
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| 13:59 | which in recent versions defaults to not running from inetd
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| 13:59 | <stgraber> yeah, after lucid we also use the daemon directly
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| 13:59 | Ubuntu also uses tftpd-hpa
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| 14:00 | the only issue was a default path change in tftpd-hpa (to something in /srv IIRC) breaking LTSP upgrades at one point (as LTSP uses /var/lib/tftpboot) but that got fixed somehow
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| 14:02 | <vagrantc> LTSP uses /tftpboot, /srv/tftp or /var/lib/tftpboot ... and mindlessly copies to them all if they're present
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| 14:02 | ltsp-update-kernels, that is
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| 14:03 | of course, that makes it difficult to document things well ...
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| 14:03 | <dgroos> Ok successfully started: "Starting internet superserver inetd" Not sure how then to start tftp server?
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| 14:03 | * vagrantc heads to lunch | |
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| 14:08 | <dgroos> stgraber: the command you gave me was to start inetd and it says it did that. Now, how do I start the tftp server?
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> dgroos: in Lucid, tftp is started as a standalone daemon, not from inetd.
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| 14:08 | dgroos: wanna vnc?
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| 14:09 | <stgraber> dgroos: tftp server is started on demand when something's received on the tftp port. If you're running lucid, then as alkisg said, it's a standalone daemon (tftpd-hpa).
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| 14:09 | <dgroos> alkisg: thanks... I've got the command on hand :)
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> dgroos: nice - either x11vnc, or via sch-scripts ;)
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| 14:10 | <dgroos> stgraber: I am running lucid... I'm still not able to boot a client--do I need to restart the server? Wait, I'll share :)
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| 14:10 | sch-scripts, nice!
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> alkisg.dyndns.org
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| 14:11 | (on the help > remote support menu)
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| 14:11 | got you
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| 14:38 | <dgroos> boot a real 'k client 'k
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| 14:41 | <alkisg> dgroos: the vbox client boots just fine
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| 14:41 | It "fakes" a real client behind your eth0 nic
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| 14:42 | So, either your wiring is problematic, or some firewall is cutting the access to port 69 of your server
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| 14:42 | <dgroos> So... how would that have happened all of a sudden?
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| 14:42 | <alkisg> Can you put a netbook or something in the same subnet as the ltsp clients?
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| 14:42 | ...to try to see if you can access the server tftp from there?
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| 14:43 | Or if they have enough ram, maybe you could boot them with a live cd or usb stick...
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| 14:43 | <dgroos> yes, though I'll have to disconnect for a bit. Refresh on how I check for the server once I've connected?
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP#Use%20an%20external%20tftp%20client
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| 14:44 | <dgroos> I'll check it...
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| 14:44 | <alkisg> (btw use "poweroff" on vbox, not "save state", no need for that)
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| 14:44 | <dgroos> oops, too late :)
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| 14:45 | <alkisg> For the server IP, use "192.168.0.1"
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| 14:48 | <dgroos> I'll be back in a bit after I try this...
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| 15:01 | <dgroos> alkisg: I didn't have internet access when I was connected to the same network as my clients--not getting through the server... (however, I do have internet access while sitting at the server...).
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> That's normal, because you don't have NAT on your server
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| 15:01 | It's easy to do it if you want, but never mind that, did tftp work?
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| 15:04 | <dgroos> alkisg: When I connected my laptop to the client lan, my internet connectivity went away! Though, I could access the internet while seated at the server...
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> (01:01:27 AM) alkisg: That's normal, because you don't have NAT on your server
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| 15:04 | (01:01:37 AM) alkisg: It's easy to do it if you want, but never mind that, did tftp work?
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| 15:05 | <dgroos> well, still working on that (do I need to install tftp-hpa? I'm on a mac at the moment don't have access to ubuntu)
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| 15:06 | <alkisg> You'd need a tftp client, yeah, but I've no idea about macs
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| 15:06 | <dgroos> I'll check...
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Anyway it's late here, goodnight. Your server's just fine, check firewalls + cabling, i.e. verify that it's eth0 that is facing your ltsp subnet
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| 15:08 | <dgroos> Thanks so much...
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| 18:25 | <gerbilOFdoom> Hello, I'm installing Edubuntu on a virtual machine for its LTSP capabilities. Can anyone help me with setting up and connecting a thin client to this machine?
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| 18:44 | <highvoltage> hey gerb<tab>
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| 22:03 | <ki> tftp timed out is getting again and again
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| 22:03 | let me know the solution
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| 22:20 | <muppis> ki, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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| 00:00 | --- Wed Apr 27 2011 | |