IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 April 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:49 | <jkommeri> Is there any easy way to decrease the size of the thin client nfsroot
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| 06:50 | because it is now more than 400 MBytes
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| 06:52 | <artista_frustrad> jkommeri, you could try stripping the binary files
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| 06:57 | <jkommeri> I don't really know what is needed and what is not
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| 07:01 | <jkommeri> I guess that there is much that is not really required
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| 07:02 | if it is the result of debootstrap
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| 07:03 | <ogra> it is more than just a debootstrap
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| 07:03 | X plus everything thats needed for autodetection ...
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| 07:04 | <jkommeri> ok
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| 07:04 | <jammcq> g'morning friends
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| 07:04 | <ogra> your kernel and initramfs take space
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| 07:04 | ltspfs and all needed deps if you use local devices
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| 07:04 | some sound daemon (pulse in case of ubuntu, esd for the rest)
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| 07:05 | <ogra> what you surely can do is rm -rf /usr/share/doc/* in the client chroot
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| 07:05 | <mhterres> hello :-D
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| 07:05 | <jkommeri> that is not much
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| 07:06 | <ogra> why is that so important to you ?
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| 07:06 | 400M isnt much nowadays
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| 07:06 | diskspace is cheap ...
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| 07:06 | <jkommeri> well I have made the ltsp-server into a virtual machine
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| 07:07 | and planning to move the virtual machine as one package
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| 07:07 | but that is one big package
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| 07:08 | <ogra> well the ubuntu feisty chroot is tar bzipped 139MB big ...
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| 07:08 | <jkommeri> biggest part is the nfsroot
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| 07:09 | I tried to build feisty nfsroot but it failed for me
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| 07:09 | <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ du -hcs /opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386/
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| 07:09 | 376M /opt/ltsp/ubuntu_feisty_i386/
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| 07:10 | <ogra> how did it fail for you ? did you file a bug ?
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| 07:10 | <jkommeri> The problem was with tls
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| 07:10 | <ogra> tls ?
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| 07:10 | <jkommeri> xen problem
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| 07:10 | <ogra> hmm
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| 07:11 | <jkommeri> I managed work around that problem using debian
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| 07:11 | <ogra> would be nice to have a bug about that wiht soem data for the ubuntu kernel team ...
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| 07:12 | so we can fix that
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| 07:12 | <jkommeri> ok
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| 07:13 | maybe next time :)
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| 07:13 | I have had so many difficulties with xen
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| 07:14 | <ogra> and debians ltsp behaved differently ? thats very strange since the code is nearly identical (just a bit older in debian)
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| 07:18 | <jkommeri> atleast the libc6 is different
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| 07:18 | <ogra> indeed, on a package level in the chroot they are completely different ...
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| 07:18 | <jkommeri> edgy that I used first has 2.4-1ubuntu12
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| 07:18 | <ogra> right, 12 ubuntu patches
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| 07:18 | <jkommeri> and etch 2.3.6.ds1-13
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| 07:19 | <ogra> wow, thats old
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| 07:19 | feisty has 2.5-0ubuntu14 already
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| 07:20 | <jkommeri> ok
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| 07:21 | <ogra> there are 17M in /usr/include in my chroot ...
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| 07:22 | check if /var/cache/apt/archive is empty in the debian chroot ...
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| 07:22 | *archives
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| 07:26 | <jkommeri> there is 13M
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| 07:26 | <ogra> wipe it ...
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| 07:26 | <jkommeri> so that with docs is 30M
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| 07:26 | <ogra> likely .deb packages
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| 07:27 | a bare debootstap is already around 200M btw ...
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| 07:28 | debian might be a tad smaller than ubuntu ... be it 180M ...
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| 07:34 | <cyberorg> hi
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| 07:34 | <cliebow_> ho
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| 07:36 | <cyberorg> just briefly visiting, saying hello, hoping to work on getting ltsp on suse
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| 07:36 | <jammcq> cliebow_: we have to be careful with that word, now that Imus got fired
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| 07:38 | <cliebow_> heh!
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| 07:39 | i guess hi ho wont make it either
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| 07:39 | <cyberorg> hio is fine
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| 07:40 | <cliebow_> hr was far more obnoxious years ago when his show was called feminine foreplay..
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| 07:43 | <Blinny> I would like some pointers for how to debug an xserver crash on a client - It does a full-stop lockup, back to vt1 with a 'press enter to restart' but no keyboard support. This occurs on a dell gx110 (using both vesa and i810 xserver). I can't get at the logs on the terminal because of the lock.. are the actual errors logged anywhere else?
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| 07:44 | <cyberorg> Blinny: you can configure clients to do logging on the server
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| 07:45 | <Blinny> I was just typing that.
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| 07:45 | "Could configuring my ltsp server as a log server help in this instance?"
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| 07:45 | <cyberorg> you'll have to pipe xserver logs to the server too, i think syslogs are the ones that gets logged there
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| 07:46 | <Blinny> Right on. Where (in the scripts) are the xserver logs instantiated on the client?
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| 07:47 | Or do you know of a wiki/howto that you can point me to so I can stop bothering the channel? (;
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| 07:47 | <jammcq> Blinny: what are you doing, when it crashes?
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| 07:48 | <cyberorg> they are usually in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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| 07:48 | <Blinny> jammcq: This is my boss so his terms are a little loose. It seems to be usually when running firefox.i386 (this is an x86_64 installation), and my gut says it has to do with flash9
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| 07:49 | cyberorg: I think that's just the actual server's X log
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| 07:49 | <jammcq> as soon as he fires up firefox? or after he's been using it for a while
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| 07:49 | <Blinny> jammcq: After awhile.
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| 07:49 | <jammcq> how much ram in the thin client?
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| 07:50 | <Blinny> jammcq: 384.
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| 07:50 | <jammcq> can you make it crash by visiting a certain site? or is it more random
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| 07:50 | <Blinny> jammcq: It's using the embedded i810 vid card
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| 07:50 | Unfortunately more random.
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| 07:51 | <jammcq> in my experience, I've seen that the more you observe the problem, the less random it becomes
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| 07:51 | <Blinny> Of course.
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| 07:52 | I'm always called after the fact though, when it's full locked. Unfortunately I can't trade boxes with him, as he's floppy-booting to get back to windows occasionally.
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| 07:52 | Of note is that we have one other i810 user who has not experienced this crash.
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| 07:53 | She is at a more rudimentary level though.
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| 07:53 | (runs at most two programs at a time)
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| 07:54 | I'm hesitant to say that it's not a problem specific to his box though, such as bad ram or shared video ram bios settings
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| 07:55 | So, I was looking for info on how to go about debugging this.. can I really pipe the clients' xorg logs to my server?
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| 08:14 | <Guaraldo> Good morning...
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| 08:16 | <cliebow_> g morning
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| 08:20 | <cyberorg> ciao see you all later
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| 08:21 | <Guaraldo> C U, cyberorg...
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| 09:35 | <spacey> people here use ltsp5/
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| 09:35 | ?
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| 09:36 | <vagrantc> sure do
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| 09:36 | <spacey> it seems to work but when faced with ldm it doesn't accept keyboard input
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| 09:36 | just beeps
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| 09:36 | <vagrantc> i mean, not everbody
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| 09:36 | <ogra> beeps ?
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| 09:36 | wow
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| 09:36 | <spacey> yeah when you press the keyboard ;)
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| 09:36 | <ogra> who implemented sound in ldm ? :=
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| 09:36 | :)
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| 09:36 | <spacey> :p
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| 09:36 | <vagrantc> spacey: grep ^SCREEN /opt/ltsp/*/etc/lts.conf
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| 09:36 | <ogra> spacey, feisty ?
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| 09:37 | <spacey> nah, dapper with the ltsp5 tarball from ltsp.org
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| 09:37 | <ogra> lol
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| 09:37 | unlikely that will work :)
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| 09:37 | <spacey> we like exciting things
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| 09:37 | why would it not?
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| 09:38 | <ogra> well, it will boot the client and attepmt to connect ... but you wont have any extra features ...
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| 09:38 | no lang/session selector in the login manager, no sound, no local devices
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| 09:38 | <spacey> bah
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| 09:38 | well basicly we used ltsp4.2 in this setup
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| 09:38 | but since an x update, rdesktop from the thinclients broke
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| 09:39 | <spacey> quite silly
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| 09:39 | <ogra> i would have backported edgys ltsp5 to dapper already if that would work *anyhow*
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| 09:39 | thats just being fixed
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| 09:39 | <spacey> ogra: the bug with rdesktop?
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| 09:39 | <ogra> a security fix in xlibs exploited bug in rdesktop
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| 09:39 | *a bug
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| 09:39 | <spacey> fixed in security update or rdesktop?
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| 09:40 | <ogra> in a security update for rdesktop indeed
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| 09:40 | <spacey> ok :)
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| 09:40 | good to hear
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| 09:40 | <ogra> just wait a bit
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| 09:40 | <spacey> it was a really wierd probably
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| 09:40 | bit hard to track down
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| 09:40 | :)
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| 09:40 | <ogra> and use feisty :P
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| 09:40 | <spacey> mja this is server :)
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| 09:40 | and edgy was hell on server
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| 09:41 | ldap broke horribly for example and many other fun
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| 09:41 | <ogra> the thing with dapper is that most of the essential packages we use in ltsp are not in main
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| 09:41 | so i cant just backport it an dyou have to do amual setup and compile stuff
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| 09:41 | <spacey> yeah but we like the LTS aspect :)
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| 09:42 | <ogra> same goes for feisty backports to edgy ... pulseaudio was simply not in edgy
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| 09:42 | <spacey> hehe :)
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| 09:42 | <vagrantc> you can use --extra-mirror and such to add universe
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| 09:43 | <ogra> sure
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| 09:43 | but the ltspfs packages in dapper are a joke :)
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> sure
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| 09:43 | <ogra> you need the ones from edgy
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> so, backport ltspfs too
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| 09:43 | <ogra> yep
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| 09:43 | <spacey> ok we'll just wait for rdesktop fix :)
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| 09:43 | <ogra> i probably should care for that some day
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| 09:43 | <spacey> quite fun playing with ltsp again
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| 09:43 | was a while (it just works normally)
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| 09:44 | <ogra> you should really try edubuntu feisty once ;)
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| 09:44 | <spacey> is it sweet?: )
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| 09:44 | <ogra> sure it is
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| 09:44 | sound via alsa is so awesome :)
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| 09:44 | <spacey> i didn't follow it lately
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| 09:44 | oe :)
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| 09:45 | <spacey> sounds cool
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| 09:45 | <ogra> well biggest addition were the new thin client manager (former student-control-panel) with desktop sharing function and vnc monitor of the client sdesktops ... and pulseaudio with alsa emulation
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| 09:46 | <spacey> good work :)
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| 09:46 | <ogra> most other developemtn was speedup related or bugfixing ...
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| 09:46 | gutsy should see a new ldm ... and finally a working ltsp-manager
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| 09:47 | <spacey> your still the sole mr edubuntu or are more people working on the core stuff?
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| 09:47 | <ogra> and real hal devices for ltspfs
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| 09:47 | <spacey> i really hope gutsy well have more server love
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| 09:47 | <ogra> i'm waiting for a second pair of hands to be hired soon
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| 09:47 | <vagrantc> ogra: will the hal devices stuff still work from the commandline ?
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| 09:47 | <ogra> no
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| 09:47 | <vagrantc> gah.
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| 09:47 | <cliebow_> meme me
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| 09:48 | <ogra> nt without hal
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| 09:48 | *not
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| 09:48 | at least
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| 09:48 | <vagrantc> ?
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| 09:48 | <ogra> gnome-mount is a part of hal ... it does the actual mounting
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| 09:48 | we need a commandline equivalent ;)
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| 09:48 | <vagrantc> hrm.
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| 09:48 | <spacey> ogra: i got to go, good to hear from you and good to know it goes well. :)
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| 09:49 | <ogra> the mount will still be accessible from the commandline as before
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> does kde include hal integration?
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| 09:49 | <ogra> yes
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| 09:49 | but not gnomevfs
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| 09:49 | vanya has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:49 | <ogra> thats why i want to attack it a layer below
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| 09:49 | <ogra> xfce has also hal integration
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| 09:49 | <vagrantc> ogra: so, you're suggesting adding a hal layer to the existing mount, rather than replacing the mount with hal ?
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| 09:50 | <ogra> no, i'm suggesting to cheat hal instead of cheating gnomevfs :)
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| 09:50 | one layer down
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| 09:51 | we can keep the old implementation as compile/build option
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| 09:51 | but i want a more elegant solution than having two hidden mounts
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| 09:51 | <vagrantc> gah.
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| 09:51 | <fxrsliberty> orgra: is there any rpm work on what you have done with LTSP5 and ubuntu that you can point me to?
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| 09:52 | <ogra> nope, there is no rpm work afaik
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| 09:52 | <vagrantc> there's recent talk, though
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| 09:52 | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-education-list/
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| 09:52 | <ogra> nobody from the redhat devs conatcted any of the ltsp devs yet since eharrison dropped the ball
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| 09:52 | <fxrsliberty> could you e-mail me the current src?
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| 09:52 | <vagrantc> !integration
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| 09:52 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "integration" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp
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| 09:52 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+branch/ltsp/feisty-ltsp
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| 09:53 | <vagrantc> fxrsliberty: try that
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| 09:53 | <fxrsliberty> ogra:TY
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| 09:55 | <ogra> vagrantc, oh, we both had our releases ... time to merge code :)
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| 09:55 | * ogra cant leave his fingers from virtualbox ... | |
| 09:55 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, i was just checking your mainline branch
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| 09:55 | virtualbox?
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| 09:55 | <ogra> i'm playing wiht virtual thin clients all the day :)
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| 09:56 | <fxrsliberty> we may have some thing that will interest you at http://en.opensuse.org/KIWI maybe usable for creating the chroot image?
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| 09:57 | <ogra> vagrantc, a virtual maichine .. very much like vmware but 100% GPLed
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| 09:57 | http://www.virtualbox.org/download/1.3.8/
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| 09:57 | <vagrantc> ogra: cool.
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| 09:57 | <ogra> fxrsliberty, well, you need any kind of bootstrap mechanism to create the initial image
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| 09:58 | that thing looks like its making snapshots of existing images
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| 09:58 | <vagrantc> ogra: how's it compare to qemu + kqemu ?
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| 09:58 | <ogra> i discovered it for iso testing for feisty
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| 09:58 | very very fast :)
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| 09:58 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: it compiles an image based on a description file and the distribution source
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| 09:59 | ogra: check out the "netboot" process
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| 09:59 | <ogra> ah, so it actually provides a bootstrap mechanism ... then thats what you need
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| 10:00 | <fxrsliberty> think you could help us merge it and get it running in opensuse?
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| 10:01 | <ogra> well, all you will need is to add a plugin dir for OpenSuse in the server source ... then you add your stuff as plugins to it ...
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| 10:01 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: ltsp5 that is
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| 10:01 | <ogra> the plugins are simple scripts ...
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| 10:02 | <vagrantc> fxrsliberty: have you read the integration URL ?
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| 10:02 | <ogra> if we need to make any changes to the existing source to make it work dont hassle to ask here or file bugs
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| 10:02 | <vagrantc> start with that, and then ask question
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| 10:02 | s
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| 10:02 | <fxrsliberty> yes, and tried the tarball install too
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| 10:03 | <ogra> the integration doc is so complicated ...
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| 10:03 | <vagrantc> it's an order of magnitude better than what we had before :P
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| 10:03 | <ogra> instructionas should be: integrate your distros bootstrap method into ltsp-build-client, create two initscripts in the chroot ...
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| 10:04 | <ogra> thats actually all thats needed ...
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| 10:04 | all fine tuning is up to the distro
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> yeah, i'm sure we wouldn't get any more questions with those instructions :P
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| 10:05 | <fxrsliberty> i can think of a few now LOL ;)
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| 10:06 | <ogra> well, it really requires you to know how your distro does the things ...
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| 10:06 | beyond that three points above all should be dont by distro tools ...
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| 10:07 | s/dont/done/
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| 10:07 | <vagrantc> well, we need to explain how to integrate the bootstrap method into ltsp-build-client.
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| 10:07 | so we need to explain the plugins a little.
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| 10:07 | <fxrsliberty> yea
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| 10:07 | <ogra> i.e. X detection and configuration from the -setup initscript for SuSE will be donne by SuSE tools
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| 10:08 | well, indeed, but we have a very good doc for that
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| 10:08 | i mean the complicated stuff at the top ...
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| 10:08 | <vagrantc> ok.
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| 10:09 | <ogra> i wouldnt really understad it if i wouldnt already work on ltsp i guess
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| 10:09 | <fxrsliberty> i definatly don't
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| 10:10 | <ogra> i dint see how it helps integrating if someone is capable to build an nfs root by hand ...
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| 10:11 | * ogra puts up a note on his whiteboard to think about better text there before sevilla ... | |
| 10:11 | * vagrantc doesn't understand which of the steps is too complicated | |
| 10:11 | <ogra> we should put the plugin stuff at the top with a good introduction before ...
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| 10:12 | and then go thrugh the workwise of the existing plugins ... so others see how they work ...
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| 10:12 | <vagrantc> the first 4 points (other than the list of software to install) seems like a good overview of the process without getting into the gory details
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| 10:12 | <ogra> basic configuration, bootstrap and early/late packages at least
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| 10:13 | well its says what to do to get it manually ...
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| 10:13 | but it doesnt say how to integrate it in the existing code
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| 10:13 | we should give code examples and explain the work wise of the existing code
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| 10:13 | <vagrantc> well, it doesn't seem like a bad way to go to explain the general process, and then proceed to get more specific ...
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| 10:14 | <vagrantc> sure.
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| 10:14 | but i don't see how that's calling it "too complicated"
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| 10:14 | <ogra> its not clear to me why i do 1.4
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| 10:14 | 1-4
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| 10:14 | vanya is now known as vanya_away | |
| 10:15 | vanya has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:15 | <vagrantc> "here's roughly what you need to do" is essentially followed by "and here's how to do it"
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| 10:15 | vanya is now known as vanya_away | |
| 10:16 | vanya_away is now known as vanya | |
| 10:16 | <ogra> hmm
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| 10:16 | <vagrantc> the "here's how you do it" part could use improvement ... but the overall concept doesn't seem broken to me.
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| 10:17 | plamengr has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:17 | <ogra> well, it could probably just need some better intro, not sure ... i find it confusing ... and i know the code ...
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| 10:18 | <vagrantc> i guess i wrote the bulk of the explanation for plugins ...
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| 10:18 | <ogra> it happens every time to me i read it ... i usually look at it only every X months ...
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| 10:18 | if i look the second time it doesnt seem that weird anymore ... but i suspect thats because i know the code ...
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| 10:19 | <vagrantc> and i guess otavio and i wrote the plugin system ...
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| 10:19 | <ogra> yep
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| 10:19 | <vagrantc> i tried to document it describing some of the things you would do in each phase ...
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| 10:19 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: i don't have time to learn the bazaar system..could i be a pest and ask for a tarball of all the currant code?
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| 10:20 | <ogra> the best would be to really walk someone through it and document the process along the way
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| 10:20 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah.
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| 10:20 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: i'll volunteer
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| 10:20 | <ogra> but that requires an amount of time *i* currently dont have
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| 10:20 | <fxrsliberty> ;((
| |
| 10:20 | :(
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| 10:20 | <ogra> i can give a hand but surely not 24/7
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| 10:21 | <vagrantc> fxrsliberty: if you're not willing to take the time to learn a couple bzr commands, i certainly wouldn't want to spend time teaching you the ltsp system.
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| 10:21 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: i have access to others that will help me
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| 10:21 | <vagrantc> really, about all you need to know to get started is "bzr get URL"
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| 10:21 | <ogra> fxrsliberty, yes sbalneav and vagrantc will be easily able to help too ...
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| 10:21 | <fxrsliberty> vagrantc: this sounds silly but I've never used an svn before
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| 10:22 | <ogra> the thing is to have a good doucumentation of this process only one person should do it ...
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| 10:22 | we'll surely get you ltsp in your distro in a team effort :) thats not the prob :)
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| 10:23 | efra has quit IRC | |
| 10:23 | <ogra> a good doc would require someone who can tae te time to sit down and note every step you did and every step he needed to explain ...
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| 10:23 | *take
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| 10:23 | <vagrantc> fxrsliberty: well, there's not a whole lot to learn, at least, not for checking out the code ...
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| 10:23 | efra has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:23 | <efra> join #php-es
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| 10:24 | <fxrsliberty> ok, i'll do that today
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| 10:24 | first find bazaar installer
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| 10:24 | <efra> Sorry,I miss the "7"
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| 10:24 | bobby_C has quit IRC | |
| 10:24 | <efra> gosh
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| 10:24 | <ogra> heh :)
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| 10:24 | <efra> What's up with this keyboard
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| 10:24 | ?
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| 10:25 | <vagrantc> fxrsliberty: it's not available as a package in your distro?
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| 10:25 | <fxrsliberty> don;t know yet
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| 10:25 | <ogra> vagrantc, btw, if you have any ideas for UDS specs feel free to file them in LP ...
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| 10:26 | <vagrantc> ogra: i signed up for the ldm spec
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| 10:26 | <ogra> (that could also be something like "make LP not suck for DDs" ;) )
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| 10:26 | <vagrantc> akldjglksdfg
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| 10:26 | <fxrsliberty> is there a way to disable LDM can't understand it's necessity on a secure network
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| 10:26 | <ogra> yes, i mean you are free to register your own if you want :)
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| 10:27 | <vagrantc> ogra: it took me about 30-60 minutes of looking to find the ldm spec ... that seems ... unproductive.
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| 10:27 | <ogra> fxrsliberty, every done a tcpdump of an XDMCP connection ?
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| 10:27 | *ever
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| 10:27 | fxrsliberty, you can assemble screenshots and keyboard logs from the data
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| 10:28 | <fxrsliberty> no... but in an elementary school who is gonna hack me and what would they gain
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| 10:28 | <ogra> XDMCP is the worst you can use from a security POV
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| 10:28 | J45p3r_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:28 | <vagrantc> fxrsliberty: well, the answer is yes, you can use XDMCP.
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| 10:28 | <ogra> nothing ... you still can use XDMCP if you like to
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| 10:28 | but we as upstrem, ubuntu and debian developers agreed on using ssh by default
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| 10:29 | <vagrantc> did upstream really agree?
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| 10:29 | <fxrsliberty> and a wise choice that is for commercial installs
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| 10:29 | <ogra> if you want to implement it differently thats up to you :)
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| 10:29 | <vagrantc> i thought we just did it :)
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| 10:29 | <ogra> vagrantc, did scott complain ?
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| 10:29 | i think he uses it at legalaid
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| 10:30 | <vagrantc> i remember there being a lot of discussion of disabling the encryption on ssh for performance reasons
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| 10:30 | <cliebow_> legopland?
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| 10:30 | tsurc has quit IRC | |
| 10:30 | <ogra> yeah, indeed thats still ongoing ...
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| 10:31 | * vagrantc wonders how much documentation is lost due to not being able to remember the credentials for wiki.ltsp.org | |
| 10:32 | <ogra> heh, just create a new account then :)
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| 10:32 | jammcq should also be able to send you the data
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| 10:32 | <vagrantc> it's easier to just complain on irc
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| 10:32 | <ogra> true :)
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| 10:33 | <vagrantc> oh yeah.
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| 10:33 | i wanted launchpad to integrate openid.
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| 10:33 | <ogra> good one
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| 10:34 | <vagrantc> but it's not really something i have any know-how. it's just a feature request
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| 10:34 | surely someone has already suggested it
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| 10:34 | <ogra> well, then probably nothing you want to spec :)
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| 10:34 | <vagrantc> i'll just try to file a bug in launchpad
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| 10:36 | * vagrantc notes that it is already filed in both english and french | |
| 10:38 | sbalneav has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:38 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 10:38 | <ogra> !s
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| 10:38 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: mornin
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| 10:38 | <ltspbot> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 10:39 | <ogra> sbalneav, every tried virtualbox ?
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| 10:39 | * ogra is a walking advert today :) | |
| 10:39 | <sbalneav> Hello all
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| 10:39 | ogra: No, what's virtualbox?
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| 10:39 | BTW, ogra, see my msg in #edu
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| 10:39 | And apparently we've won an award :)
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| 10:40 | <ogra> oh?
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| 10:40 | where ?
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| 10:40 | mistik1 has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:40 | <ogra> how?
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| 10:40 | when?
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| 10:40 | why?
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> Didn't you see LaserJocks' planet post?
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| 10:41 | * ogra looks | |
| 10:41 | <mistik1> woohoo!!
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| 10:41 | <ogra> ah, the glde pony ...
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| 10:42 | *golden
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| 10:42 | \o/
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| 10:42 | hooray
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| 10:42 | * ogra hugs sbalneav extatically | |
| 10:42 | <sbalneav> :D\-<
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| 10:42 | :D|-<
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| 10:42 | :D/-<
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| 10:42 | Doin' the wave
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| 10:43 | <ogra> http://www.virtualbox.org/download/1.3.8/
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| 10:43 | its like vmware but opensourced
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| 10:43 | i'm having the whole desktop cluttered with vitrual thin clients *g*
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| 10:44 | <mhterres> hello sbalneav
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| 10:44 | <sbalneav> Morning
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| 10:44 | Oh, forgot to join -br
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| 10:46 | <mhterres> hehehe
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| 10:47 | <ogra> sbalneav, any spec ideas for sevilla ? i'm just starting to collect stuff and register specs
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| 10:47 | <sbalneav> YES!
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| 10:47 | Lots
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| 10:47 | Ummm, let me send you an email.
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| 10:48 | <ogra> tell me ... so we dont do duplicates
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| 10:48 | yeah
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| 10:48 | i have registered two already
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> gimme 5 minutes.
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| 10:48 | <ogra> and two on the list
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| 10:48 | ldm-improvements and ltspfs-virtual-hal-devices are registered
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| 10:48 | rjune has quit IRC | |
| 10:48 | <ogra> one i planned was ltsp-seed-profiling
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| 10:49 | *speed
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| 10:49 | aiming for a slimline kernel and a wa to speed up ltsp-client-setup and find general slowdowns
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| 10:49 | *way
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| 10:50 | and one for a thin-client-server-cd ... but that will likely get dissed by mdz
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| 10:50 | sepski has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:50 | <ogra> (he doesnt like the idea)
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> a livecd server?
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| 10:52 | <ogra> nah
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| 10:52 | a thin client dedicated ubuntu CD
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| 10:52 | with different flavours you can install
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| 10:52 | <vagrantc> what would that really add?
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| 10:53 | <ogra> a thin client, webkiosk, fat client or callcenter server out of the box
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> ogra: sent
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| 10:53 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> Oooh, yeah
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| 10:53 | ekiga as localapp.
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| 10:53 | Well, localapps as general
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| 10:53 | add that to the list
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| 10:53 | <ogra> depending on network auth :/
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| 10:53 | like fat clients
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| 10:54 | that really needs to get in this time
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| 10:54 | <sbalneav> yeah
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| 10:54 | <ogra> and we have it specced already, dont we ?
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| 10:55 | Avatara has quit IRC | |
| 10:55 | <vagrantc> can we re-add a discussion of network auth?
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| 10:55 | gentgeen__ has quit IRC | |
| 10:55 | <vagrantc> or is it just an implementation issue?
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| 10:55 | greg_g has quit IRC | |
| 10:56 | <ogra> there are already soem scheduled i think
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| 10:57 | *some
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| 10:57 | <sbalneav> yeah, we'll revive the old spec
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| 10:57 | <ogra> well, if it is approved you dont need to revive it
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| 10:57 | we can just implement it ...
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| 10:57 | i.e. i'll work on ltsp-manager but on the existing spec
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| 10:58 | so it wont show up on the UDS schedule
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| 10:58 | freet15_ has quit IRC | |
| 11:00 | <ogra> sbalneav, fixing the swapserver shouldnt be a spec ... its a bug that it doesnt time out on its own ... lets just fix it
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| 11:00 | ssh/xdmcp merge is cool :)
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| 11:01 | * ogra hugs sbalneav for the 6th point | |
| 11:01 | irule has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:02 | * vagrantc wonders if sbalneav's list can make it to the pastebot | |
| 11:02 | <sbalneav> ummm
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| 11:02 | sure... hold on...
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| 11:03 | <ogra> 8 has an approved spec ... no need to spec it again ...
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| 11:03 | (and a working implementation on my disk ;) )
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| 11:03 | <ltsppbot> "sbalneav" pasted "Specs to work on" (12 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/105
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| 11:04 | <ogra> so seems ltspfs will see some nice new stuff this time :)
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| 11:04 | gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:04 | <ogra> we should extend 5 to "attaching weird devices" or something
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| 11:04 | someone wanted to have a bluetooth headset working here recently
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| 11:05 | <vagrantc> ltspfs/gphotofs integration ? :)
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| 11:05 | <ogra> ubuntu has all the mechanisms ... we should have a ltsp-extra-input metapackage that cares for puling them in
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| 11:06 | gphoto integration sounds very cool
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| 11:06 | <vagrantc> again, more a feature request than any real know-how on my part
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| 11:06 | <ogra> but thats something you can spec i guess ... you know the environment :)
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| 11:07 | ltspfs isnt so tricky ...
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| 11:07 | only some python scripts udev rules and the ingenous ltspfs tunnel ...
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| 11:08 | i was thinking about sshfs mounted homedirs in ldm :)
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| 11:08 | that could help with ocalapps
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| 11:08 | *localapps
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| 11:09 | and wouldnt add extra nfs exports or insecure data transfers
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| 11:10 | <vagrantc> ogra: that's an excellent idea!
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| 11:11 | <ogra> lets put it on the list then :)
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| 11:12 | <vagrantc> wouldn't that just be an implementation detail of localapps ?
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| 11:12 | <cliebow_> LDAP sounds good
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| 11:12 | <Gadi> have you thought about temporarily populating /etc/passwd and /etc/group on login with: ssh server getent passwd > /etc/passwd ?
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| 11:12 | * vagrantc wonders if debian-edu's LDAP auth infrastructure would be adaptable | |
| 11:12 | <ogra> vagrantc, only if we do it specifically for localapps...
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| 11:13 | <Gadi> that would make use of the *server*'s auth setup
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| 11:13 | <joebaker> Easy Fat Client.... How will they get around the gconfd issues?
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| 11:13 | <ogra> vagrantc, yes, i looked at it already
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| 11:14 | <joebaker> cliebow_ Yes, We use LDAP here, but not locally on the thin client yet.... that will be nice for local apps. Almost a must for us.
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| 11:14 | <vagrantc> Gadi: and if the server's /etc/passwd and /etc/group aren't used for authentication? :P
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| 11:14 | <ogra> Gadi, well, then we could have as well a ltsp-passwd script that copies /etc/passwd to the chroot
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| 11:14 | <vagrantc> that's ok for gid/uid stuff, but not the actual password hashes
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| 11:14 | <Gadi> vagrantc - still works
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| 11:14 | I used "getent"
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| 11:15 | getent pulls in from all dbs
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| 11:15 | <vagrantc> oooh.
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| 11:15 | tricky.
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| 11:15 | <Gadi> :)
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| 11:15 | <cliebow_> Gadi:true...i true
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| 11:15 | <Gadi> then, you dont worry about auth on the client at all
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| 11:15 | <ogra> hmm
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| 11:15 | <Gadi> and you dont copy any files over the network
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| 11:15 | <ogra> right
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| 11:16 | <Gadi> :D
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| 11:16 | <ogra> that plus mounting home via sshfs would gain us all we need
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| 11:16 | <Gadi> plus, you already have ssh plumbed
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| 11:16 | <ogra> and no extra open ports or anything
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| 11:16 | <joebaker> I hope PAM will be part of the authentication on the thin client to support LDAP.
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| 11:16 | <Gadi> correcto
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| 11:16 | <vagrantc> though ...
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| 11:16 | gonzaloaf_work has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:16 | <ogra> joebaker, we use whatever ssh or gdm use
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| 11:16 | <vagrantc> if a malicious user was given write access to /etc/passwd on the terminal ... they could do bad things
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| 11:17 | <ogra> there is nothing using pam on the client itself ... for fat clients you would use gdm which uses whatever is configured in pam ... for localapps ssh ... same thing ...
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| 11:17 | <joebaker> ssh can be configured to not use PAM. I think I've seen problems with SSH using PAM. Let me check /etc/ssh/sshd.conf for a PAM option.
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| 11:18 | <Gadi> vagrantc: only the ldm user would have access
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| 11:18 | presumably root
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| 11:18 | <ogra> joebaker, in ubuntu ssh uses pam by default
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| 11:18 | <Gadi> which is locked
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| 11:19 | <vagrantc> isn't the locking done by effectively editing /etc/passwd ?
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| 11:19 | using "passwd -l"
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| 11:19 | <joebaker> sshd_config:
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| 11:19 | UsePAM yes
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| 11:19 | # Change to yes to enable challenge-response passwords (beware issues with
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| 11:19 | # some PAM modules and threads)
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| 11:19 | ChallengeResponseAuthentication no
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| 11:19 | <ogra> yeah, pam mount is a candidate
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| 11:19 | <Gadi> vagrantc: so, we dont copy getent shadow
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| 11:19 | only getent passwd
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| 11:19 | <ogra> tahst why i want t do the mounting from ldm ;)
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| 11:19 | <Gadi> that way, no passwords, and all is locked
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| 11:20 | <vagrantc> but ...
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| 11:20 | <Gadi> we just need the uid/gid translation
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| 11:20 | * vagrantc suspects there's something amiss | |
| 11:20 | <Gadi> we dont need the passwds
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| 11:20 | <joebaker> gadi: instead of copying shadow or passwd use a caching daemon nscd I think it's called.
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| 11:21 | I'll check.
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| 11:21 | <Gadi> why?
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| 11:21 | just getent on login through ldm
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| 11:21 | <vagrantc> if you add a password hash in /etc/password, even with shadow passwords enabled, doesn't it allow the password?
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| 11:21 | we're trusting the user-run getent ...
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| 11:22 | which could produce a totally different /etc/passwd
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| 11:22 | McDutchie has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:22 | <joebaker> nscd is the name of the daemon. It's great to have running in case the LDAP server can't resolve a query for a uid or gid that you've already requested recently. This will greatly reduce the load on the LDAP server too if you have hundreds of clients out there.
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| 11:22 | <vagrantc> say "vagrant:x:0:0:/root:/bin/bash"
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| 11:23 | <ogra> uh
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| 11:23 | root ?
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| 11:23 | /root i mean
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| 11:23 | <vagrantc> yeah.
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| 11:23 | or whatever you wanted.
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| 11:24 | i think by trusting the user's gentent output, we're opening a security hole to gain root on the thin client
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| 11:24 | <Gadi> only if a user can manipulate the auth dbs
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| 11:24 | <ogra> add some pattern matching then
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| 11:24 | <joebaker> nscd isn't running on our LTSP server that was setup for LDAP authentication against a remote LDAP server. I need to add this... Of course the one drawback is that changes may take time to propogate as everybody who has cached data will keep it for 5-15 minutes.
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| 11:24 | <Gadi> which would be the hole
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| 11:25 | <ogra> yeah, but you can also easlily catech uid 0
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| 11:25 | <vagrantc> Gadi: ~/bin/getent that does a little sed action when calling getent
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| 11:25 | <ogra> *catch
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> vagrantc: *ldm* runs getent in my scenario
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| 11:25 | <vagrantc> i guess you can call getent with a full path ... maybe that would be sufficient
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> not the user
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| 11:25 | <vagrantc> Gadi: runs it as the user through the ssh tunnel
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> no
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| 11:26 | <ogra> it has to
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> ldm runs as root on the client
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| 11:26 | <vagrantc> ah...
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| 11:26 | root can use the ssh tunnel ...
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| 11:26 | <ogra> yeah, but how does ldm authenticate against the server ?
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| 11:26 | <vagrantc> well no
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> oh, i see you mean the ssh tunnel's getent
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| 11:26 | sorry
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| 11:26 | <vagrantc> it's still using the user's ssh tunnel which runs as the user
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| 11:26 | <Gadi> doing too much at once
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| 11:26 | so, explicitly run /usr/bin/getent
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| 11:26 | <ogra> its always the user
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| 11:27 | btw we should add an ldm user ...
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> hm... still could be some ugly things.
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| 11:27 | <ogra> to deroot it
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> ogra: could that fall under the ldm improvements spec ?
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| 11:27 | <ogra> iÄD also like an initscript to run it standalone
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| 11:27 | yep
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| 11:27 | <vagrantc> yes.
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| 11:28 | <ogra> thats what it is about
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| 11:29 | (initscript -> doesnt mean i want to take it out of ltsp-client ... only for usage outside of chroots)
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| 11:29 | * vagrantc wants it out of ltsp-client | |
| 11:29 | <Gadi> vagrantc: actually, you just need: ssh server /usr/bin/getent passwd <user> >> /etc/passwd
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> Gadi: would that catch all the group permissions ?
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| 11:30 | <Gadi> and add it to the existing
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| 11:30 | <ogra> vagrantc, why ?
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| 11:30 | it will only slow down ...
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| 11:30 | <vagrantc> ogra: why implement it in two places?
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| 11:30 | <joebaker> I'm very much against having a copy of /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow just put into the chroot environment. No modern program should be based upon /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow. Rather they treat the output of a command such as
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| 11:30 | getent shadow
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| 11:30 | as if it was /etc/shadow.
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| 11:30 | <Gadi> vagrantc: well, do all groups, but only the user's passwd
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| 11:30 | <ogra> joebaker, they would only reside in the thin clients ram ....
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| 11:30 | not in any actual file in the chroot
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| 11:31 | <vagrantc> the idea is a beautiful hack :)
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| 11:31 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:31 | <vagrantc> with both the positive and negative repercussions, possible.
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| 11:31 | <joebaker> Thin clients could stay up for days/ months with old UID/GID information that was copied there from the time it was booted. Use a mechanism which authenticates quickly against the LDAP server.
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| 11:32 | <ogra> no
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| 11:32 | <vagrantc> joebaker: it's copied on login
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| 11:32 | <joebaker> Or whatever authenitcation service exists. Getent and PAM will do this for you.
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| 11:32 | <ogra> the line would be removed on logout
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| 11:32 | pscheie has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:32 | <ogra> dont worry about the client side ... the server side is the evil one ...
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> it still would be better to do LDAP
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| 11:33 | <Gadi> i think we can secure it
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| 11:33 | <pscheie> morning all
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| 11:33 | <ogra> were users put ~/bin/getent in place ;)
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> or one of the SQL login implementations
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| 11:33 | <Gadi> and it would put a lot of weight off the client
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| 11:33 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:33 | <Gadi> and once somebody gets auth working on the server, the client's auth works for free
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| 11:34 | <ogra> finding a more proper solution but *just like that* would be cool
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| 11:34 | <Gadi> regardless of LDAP/winbind/novell, etc
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| 11:34 | <vagrantc> it's worth playing with
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| 11:35 | <ogra> you could sshfs mount /etc/passwd as well and let ldm do a bind mount btw
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| 11:35 | <Gadi> just because something makes C system calls, doesnt make it proper ;)
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| 11:35 | <joebaker> The client has NFS access to shares on the server. In order for UID/GID schemas to work, we need to ensure that somehow periodic updates will occur to the Thin Client's or they will be allowed to write to things they shouldn't be able to. maybe your getent passwd|group|shadow trick would work as long as you set it up as a cronjob that occurred ever hour or so.
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| 11:35 | <ogra> or a move mount
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| 11:35 | <Gadi> joebaker: it would run on *login*
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| 11:36 | no need to cache
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| 11:36 | every time you login, it would get the auth info needed for the client side to work
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| 11:36 | <vagrantc> if we switched to ldm user, we would want to reserve a specific uid/gid for that ...
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| 11:36 | <Gadi> if you change credentials while logged in, already you'll break you're session in most cases
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> otherwise you could get weird results
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| 11:37 | <ogra> yep
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| 11:37 | indeed
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| 11:37 | the debian maintainer scripts have hooks for that iirc
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| 11:37 | dh_something ...
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| 11:38 | <vagrantc> in debian, we'd have to get approved for a specific uid/gid ...
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| 11:38 | klaragen has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:38 | <vagrantc> the problem is maintaining the same numbers on both the server(s) and the ltsp client environment
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| 11:38 | <Lumiere> can't you share the gdm number?
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| 11:38 | <ogra> i dont think i need that n ubuntu
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| 11:38 | <Lumiere> or the xdm number?
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| 11:39 | <ogra> vagrantc, well if you standardize on a specific one that sholdnt be hard
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| 11:40 | in ubuntu user accunts all are above 1000 ...
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| 11:40 | i just have to pick something free below ...
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| 11:40 | <vagrantc> gdm uses 103 on my system
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| 11:40 | <ogra> 106 here
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| 11:40 | <vagrantc> ogra: i think in debian policy there's a range of pre-assigned numbers, and a range of random numbers for stuff like that
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| 11:41 | s,random,arbitrary,
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| 11:41 | <joebaker> I have to say, I'm very happy to see authentication being addressed. I remember when a shell prompt on an LTSP terminal meant root access on the terminal. And UID 0 on nfs trusting networks is a pretty scary thing. Now shells in MueKow have login prompts.
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| 11:41 | <ogra> well, i'll get the right ubuntu people to atted to help out there in the BOF ;)
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| 11:41 | <vagrantc> ok
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| 11:42 | <ogra> joebaker, not if oyu use them the old way :)
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| 11:42 | SCREEN_01=shell still gives you a prompt ...
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| 11:43 | because we assume thats what you want if you manually override stuff in lts.conf :)
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| 11:43 | <vagrantc> well, it will give you a heinous shell prompt and login screen simultaneosly
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| 11:43 | <joebaker> ogra: No, that's what I have, and I have a login prompt. Maybe it's because I set a password for root and a user of joebaker into /etc/passwd.
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| 11:43 | <ogra> i have a password for root as well for debugging .... but i get a straight propmt ...
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| 11:43 | <vagrantc> and LDM won't start without additional SCREEN entries
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| 11:44 | <ogra> and looking at the code it cat be a login
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| 11:44 | <joebaker> ogra. Interesting... I don't know what would be different.
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| 11:44 | <ogra> vagrantc, right, having a SCREEN_XX entry overrides the default
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| 11:45 | * vagrantc struggles with selecting flight info | |
| 11:45 | <ogra> ah got mail ?
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| 11:46 | <vagrantc> yeah
| |
| 11:46 | * ogra booked today | |
| 11:46 | <ogra> arriving May 2nd 16:30 (CEST)
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| 11:47 | <joebaker> ogra: I have SCREEN_01=startx And that never worked to start X windows for some reason. 07 always tried to start LDM. I had to change the LDM script to the startx script cuz I like XDMCP rather than tunneling everything through SSH.
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> joebaker: try SCREEN_07=startx
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| 11:47 | <joebaker> Sorry for the confusion.
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| 11:48 | <fxrsliberty> vagrantc: 1 hour later and I still don't have a ready bzr for SLED 10 , which is partially why I asked for a tarball
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| 11:48 | <ogra> yeah SCREEN_07 would have been right
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| 11:48 | fxrsliberty, if your chages are not in bzr we cant merge them ... thats why we insint on bzr :)
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| 11:48 | *insist
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| 11:49 | <joebaker> vagrantec: A reasonable suggestion. I'll try it in the future. At the time I was shocked by the idea of having the display on F7 like the distros did it.
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| 11:49 | <ogra> sbalneav, is the 4.2 ltsp kernel kit your work or jims ?
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| 11:49 | <fxrsliberty> ogra: i'm sure the guys in development on the opensuse team would be able to do that but I'm on the Enterprise version called SLED
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| 11:50 | <vagrantc> joebaker: putting in on _01 is likely to cause you headaches.
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| 11:50 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 11:50 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:50 | 01 is usually the system console
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| 11:50 | there is a reason why distros use tty7 for X ;)
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| 11:50 | and not tty1 :)
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| 11:51 | <cliebow_> ogra:the kernel kit is i think mostly Jims
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| 11:51 | <ogra> ah, k
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| 11:52 | i'D like to know how much info we could pull out of it for a -ltsp kernel package ...
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| 11:52 | <cliebow_> al ot of that is tacking the initramfs on...
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| 11:52 | <ogra> even though i'm not sure its a good idea to not use the standard kernel ... just for 15sec boottime ...
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| 11:52 | ah, k
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| 11:52 | thats not out prob ...
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| 11:53 | <cliebow_> yes
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> yeah, a second kernel is not a burden we're likely to embark on for debian
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| 11:53 | <ogra> well, lowmem optimization would surely help a lot
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> as that's an additional kernel for 11+ arches
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| 11:53 | <ogra> and slimming down the list of modules you probe on boot as well
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| 11:53 | <vagrantc> i guess we could just do a custom kernel for a couple of the more popular arches
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| 11:54 | <ogra> well, in ubuntu its just another .config file and an entry in debian/control
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| 11:54 | <cliebow_> vagrantc: you guys continuing ppc support/
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| 11:54 | general has quit IRC | |
| 11:54 | <ogra> cliebow, sure they do
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| 11:54 | <cliebow_> ahh k
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> cliebow_: i'd be surprised if it would be dropped ... it's the 2nd or 3rd most popular architecture, i think
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| 11:55 | <ogra> well it *will* drop at some point
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> it drops if people don't keep it working
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| 11:55 | <cliebow_> i'm just hip deep in ibooks here
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| 11:55 | <ogra> since its not produced anymore in any popular systems
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| 11:55 | <vagrantc> like m68k
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| 11:56 | <ogra> i was totally against ubuntu dropping ppc ...
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| 11:56 | <cliebow_> sure..m68k is Stone Age..
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| 11:56 | <ogra> but nobody listened to me ...
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| 11:56 | <Gadi> btw, just another plug for the getent hack: it would ensure that the uid/gid is consistent with the server to which you mount sshfs (thinking, of course, about LDM_SERVER != SERVER)
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| 11:56 | <ogra> now we have at least a community maintained ps3 release with feisty :)
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| 11:56 | <cliebow_> Gadi: you have me convinced..come on over and well talk it over during lunch
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| 11:56 | <vagrantc> Gadi: well, whatever server you ssh to will be the one where you grab getent
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| 11:57 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:57 | <Gadi> zactly
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| 11:57 | <vagrantc> which would be proper ... sort of.
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| 11:57 | if you have multi-distro environments you'll likely get some weirdness
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| 11:57 | that's a corner case
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| 11:58 | * vagrantc practices the art of pondering rare corner cases | |
| 11:58 | <Gadi> well, of course local apps will have certain prereqs ;)
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| 11:59 | * vagrantc waffles | |
| 12:04 | <Gadi> well, i guess just the prereq of getent being in a particular place and installed on the ssh server
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| 12:05 | <ogra> yeah, you should use a hardcoded path here
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| 12:05 | <Gadi> the bigger qu is: how does one launch the local app from the server
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| 12:05 | <ogra> ssh server on the client ....
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| 12:05 | attach to localhost:0 and just run it ...
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| 12:05 | <Gadi> maybe: or maybe we redirect a port on the server through the tunnel
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| 12:06 | then, you wouldn't need to exchange ssh keys on an NFS mount
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| 12:07 | er, actually it would be an sshfs mount
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| 12:07 | nm
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| 12:07 | <ogra> heh
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| 12:08 | <Gadi> looking nice and secure all around
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| 12:08 | no passwords necessary on the client at all
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| 12:08 | :)
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| 12:09 | just have every user put a symlink: authorized_keys -> id_dsa.pub
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| 12:09 | in the .ssh
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| 12:09 | <joebaker> IPTABLES even has a way to authenticate based on the UID of the owning program.
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| 12:09 | <Gadi> lol
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| 12:10 | <ogra> yep we used it in willowng for the local transaparent proxy ...
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| 12:10 | you can do funny things with it
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| 12:48 | <Gadi> ogra: do you know of any bugs in feisty wrt gnome hanging on login and then ctrl-alt-backspace and login again and desktop comes up?
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| 12:49 | <ogra> Gadi, on an ltsp server ?
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| 12:49 | <Gadi> on console login
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| 12:49 | from a regular computer
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| 12:49 | Ive seen it a few times now on separate hardware from fresh feisty install
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| 12:50 | <ogra> no ltsp involved at all ?
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| 12:50 | <Gadi> no ltsp
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| 12:50 | <ogra> phew :)
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| 12:50 | <Gadi> just standard install
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| 12:50 | heh
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| 12:50 | <ogra> not my bug :)
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| 12:50 | <Gadi> ok - but you havent heard of it?
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| 12:50 | <ogra> well, feisty runs updatedb directly after boot iirc
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| 12:50 | <Blinny> haaahhaa
| |
| 12:50 | <Gadi> its not like a prevalent issue
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| 12:51 | <ogra> could just be a heavy IO lag due to disk activity
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| 12:51 | <Gadi> but not upon login, i hope?
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| 12:51 | <ogra> i think its started by an at command ... or anacron
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| 12:51 | <Gadi> nah - when it happens the hard drive light blinks once every 5 secs
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| 12:51 | not like a constant blinking
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| 12:51 | <ogra> a bit delayed after first boot
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| 12:52 | no, i havent heard of that
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| 12:53 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 12:53 | <ogra> i have a similar sounding bug with gnome-session in ltsp
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| 12:53 | <Gadi> ok
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| 12:53 | I also need to find some way to expedite the Adaptec raid controller bug - still in feisty (and has been since dapper) :(
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| 12:54 | ogra: hmmm - may be a gnome-session bug and not an ltsp bug
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| 12:54 | <ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/105709
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| 12:54 | it is both ...
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| 12:54 | ltsp not cleaning up properly and gnome-session dying on non existing sound devices
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| 12:55 | the gnome-session part *could* be related ... who knows ...
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| 13:46 | <moquist> ogra: you in here?
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| 13:47 | ogra, all: Any easy way to get flash sound working in Edubuntu Feisty? I was hoping that with the new pulseaudio magic it was all Just Going To Work, but it isn't so far...
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| 13:54 | <Gadi> moquist: do other sounds work?
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| 13:54 | <moquist> Gadi: yep. it's just flash (that I've noticed so far)
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| 13:54 | * moquist tries 'FIREFOX_DSP=padsp firefox' with no success | |
| 13:55 | <moquist> ...not that I read any documentation, or anything. Maybe padsp isn't what I assumed it was...
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| 13:58 | <Gadi> moquist: are you using the Adobe flash plugin or theopen source one?
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| 13:59 | <moquist> Gadi: whichever one Feisty installs when you say "Install missing plugins"
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| 13:59 | * moquist is trying to pretend to be a normal user person | |
| 13:59 | * Gadi shrugs | |
| 13:59 | <moquist> np
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| 13:59 | <Gadi> I would install the Adobe one system-wide
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| 13:59 | rjent has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:59 | <moquist> I was just seeing if there was an easy answer I just didn't know about before I took off investigating this.
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| 13:59 | <Gadi> and make moquist pretend to be the admin ;)
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| 13:59 | <moquist> I guess I should check the wiki...
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| 14:00 | <rjent> greetings, could someone assist me with equipment needed to make pxe roms?
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| 14:00 | <Gadi> rjent: are you going into the business?
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| 14:01 | not much of a market out there
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| 14:01 | <jammcq> heh
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| 14:01 | we've prolly sold 3 bootroms in the past 6 months
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| 14:01 | <Gadi> rjent: buy jammcq's bootroms
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| 14:01 | he's starving
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| 14:01 | * Gadi sends picture | |
| 14:01 | <jammcq> withering away to nothing
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| 14:02 | <rjent> Gadi: well either getting in or need a reasonable place to buy them
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> ah, well, I dont know if I would call jammcq reasonable
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| 14:02 | jammcq?
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| 14:02 | are you reasonable?
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| 14:02 | <jammcq> depends on the day
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| 14:03 | <rjent> jammcq: got a url or more info?
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| 14:03 | <jammcq> http://www.DisklessWorkstations.com
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| 14:03 | what are you looking for?
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| 14:03 | <Gadi> rjent: before you go out buying burners and blank roms, I would suggest making jammcq an offer he cant refuse
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| 14:04 | <rjent> Well I was getting them for $12.00 a card but I am having communication trouble with that vendor in that they keep sending me etherboot and not pxe enabled.
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| 14:05 | <jammcq> ah, we only have Etherboot, not pxe
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| 14:05 | why not use Etherboot ?
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| 14:06 | <rjent> I need the menu that pxe can provide
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| 14:06 | <jammcq> ok
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| 14:09 | <Gadi> jammcq: do you have a service by which you will burn a customer-provided image to rom?
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| 14:09 | kaminski-ltsp-br has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:09 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> ha all
| |
| 14:09 | hi
| |
| 14:09 | <jammcq> Gadi: nothing official
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| 14:09 | we've done it a few times tho
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| 14:09 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> jammcq: hey
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| 14:09 | <rjent> I was sort of under the impression from rom-o-matic that etherboot could have pxe included. It that correct?
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| 14:09 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> sbalneav: hi
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| 14:09 | <jammcq> kaminski-ltsp-br: hello there friend
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| 14:10 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> jammcq: ;)
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| 14:10 | <jammcq> rjent: yep, a mostly-sort-of-pxe compliant rom image can be made
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| 14:10 | <Gadi> cmon guys, /me wants to see some haggling
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| 14:10 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> I'm getting a dhcpcd fail with a via rhine... with a thin client... can it be the kernel?
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| 14:10 | <jammcq> Gadi: yeah, you would
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| 14:10 | <moquist> Gadi: FWIW, padsp `echo $PULSE_SERVER | awk -F: '{print "-m "$1" -s "$2}'` -d firefox http://www.jibjab.com/originals/originals/jibjab/movieid/71 tells me "PULSEAUDIO: Unable to create stream"
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| 14:11 | time to go home.
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| 14:11 | <Gadi> lol
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| 14:14 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> I'm getting a dhcpcd fail with a via rhine... with a thin client... can it be the kernel?
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| 14:17 | <sbalneav> Hello kaminski-ltsp-br
| |
| 14:17 | J45p3r_ has quit IRC | |
| 14:17 | <sepski> kaminski-ltsp-br, might be that the initrd dont have kernel module for the card ? do you see earlier in the log of the nic is detected ?
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| 14:20 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> it was detected
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| 14:20 | the module was up
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| 14:20 | :(
| |
| 14:22 | <jammcq> !s
| |
| 14:22 | <ltspbot> jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 14:22 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> !j
| |
| 14:22 | <ltspbot> kaminski-ltsp-br: "j" is (#1) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#2) jstraw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, or (#3) jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 14:22 | <jammcq> :)
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| 14:22 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> :P
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| 14:24 | <rjent> jammcq: may I ask why you do not use the image that is compliant for etherboot + pxe?
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| 14:25 | <jammcq> because for every image we sell, we put it through a testing process, and that takes time. we get so few requests for bootroms, we just can't afford the time to do all the testing
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| 14:52 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: Hi... Can I ask you a favor?
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| 14:53 | jammcq: The channel #ltsp-br is registered to a user not connected for more than 2 years... How can we get the registration with us?
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| 14:54 | aburton has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:54 | <cliebow_> Guaraldo, who??
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| 14:54 | <Guaraldo> sbalneav: Hi...
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| 14:55 | <sbalneav> Hey Luiz!
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| 14:55 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> ;)
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| 14:55 | <Guaraldo> cliebow_: (16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Channel: #ltsp-br
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| 14:55 | (16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Contact: Marcelo_, last seen: 2 years 39 weeks (7h 51m 51s) ago
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| 14:55 | (16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Registered: 2 years 39 weeks (7h 51m 51s) ago
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| 14:55 | (16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Topic: -=- Projeto LTSP-BR -=- http://www.ltsp-br.org -=- Vejam as fotos do FISL
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| 14:55 | (16:55:13) ChanServ: (notice) Mode Lock: -s
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| 14:56 | <kaminski-ltsp-br> 2 years ago o.O
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| 14:56 | <cliebow_> i guess it IS a job for jammcq:
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| 14:56 | <Guaraldo> If the registration could be with me, it would the wanderfull...
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| 14:57 | <jammcq> Guaraldo: umm, no clue
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| 14:57 | <Guaraldo> ops... :%s/would the/would be
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| 14:58 | * kaminski-ltsp-br is away: week end | |
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| 15:19 | <Gadi> ogra: ide cdrom drives in a thin client should work in feisty, right?
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| 15:27 | <sbalneav> Gadi: Yepperoonie
| |
| 15:28 | <Gadi> hmm... Im trying to help someone through a fresh install but no local dev
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| 15:28 | and it appears to be enabled in lts.conf by default
| |
| 15:32 | <jammcq> hmm, Yepperoonie, rhymes with Pepperoonie, which makes me think of Pizza. Mmmmmm, Pizza
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| 15:32 | <Guaraldo> Gadi: Does this person used MODULE_XX = ide-cdrom (XX is a number) ?
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| 15:32 | <Gadi> no - is that required?
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| 15:33 | <Guaraldo> jammcq: Don't tell me about Pizza... I didn't lunch yet!
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| 15:33 | <Gadi> what happened to udev automagic?
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| 15:33 | <Guaraldo> Gadi: Well to usb-storage devices it is needed...
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| 15:34 | <Gadi> really?
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| 15:34 | thats messed up
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| 15:34 | sbalneav: say it aint so
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| 15:34 | <Guaraldo> Gadi: not ide-cdrom, but usb-storage
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| 15:34 | <Gadi> no way you have to load usb-storage manually
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| 15:34 | <Guaraldo> LTSP 4.2, Gadi...
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| 15:35 | <Gadi> ah, im talking LTSP-5ish
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| 15:36 | plus, you shouldnt need that on 4.2, either
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| 16:48 | <Guaraldo> Ok, dude... I'm going now!
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| 16:48 | See Yah!
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| 16:48 | <sutula> I have the Debian/Ubuntu packaging of ltsp-server running.
| |
| 16:48 | Apparently, it always sets up it's connection over ssh.
| |
| 16:49 | I have no need of the encryption on my network (private) and would rather not waste the CPU (old machines).
| |
| 16:49 | Someone suggested removing the Debian version and using the upstream tarball, so that I would have control over how it's set up.
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| 16:49 | But I'm resisting bringing in non-Debian-packaged software.
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| 16:49 | Does anyone here know whether I can tweak the Debian version (say through config options) to avoid the ssh layer?
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| 16:49 | Other advice?
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| 17:26 | * sutula tries to raise ogra's attention to the above query, seeing he is one of the Debian/Ubuntu maintainers | |
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| 17:30 | <cliebow> sutula:perhaaps the debian version supports screen_07=sttartx which will in ububntu use xdmcp instead..
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| 17:31 | <sutula> cliebow: I can look...would that be a config option?
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| 17:31 | <cliebow> yes in lts.conf
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| 17:31 | add an lts.conf
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| 17:32 | * sutula pokes around | |
| 17:32 | <cliebow> just what ive heard implied here over many weeks
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| 17:33 | see the way it works...i say something.then someone that knows tromps on it
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| 17:33 | 8~)
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| 17:33 | <sutula> cliebow: Anyway, I can at least figure out what's reading the .conf files, and see what options there really are
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| 17:34 | ...it's an involved process to figure out what's happening when during the client boot process
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| 17:34 | <cliebow> there is a a man page (in ubuntu anyway..)which desrcbes thte lts.conf options..
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| 17:34 | in like /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/docs//
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| 17:35 | cant remember exaxtly
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| 17:35 | ill turn my ibook on..
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| 17:42 | <J45p3r> cliebow: still no raid support :(
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| 17:43 | <cliebow> damn
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| 17:43 | sutuls: in mine /opt/ltsp/powerpc/usr/share/doc/examplse/lts-parameters.txt
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| 17:43 | <cliebow> sutula: in mine /opt/ltsp/powerpc/usr/share/doc/examplse/lts-parameters.txt
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| 17:44 | <J45p3r> I'm sure there is a way to hack it, but I need to do a more complete backup before I try to go that deep
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| 17:46 | <sutula> cliebow: I found an example lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples
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| 17:46 | cliebow: I'll mess with that...thanks for the ideas
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| 17:46 | * sutula has to go make dinner, but will check back later in case others chime in | |
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| 17:57 | <cliebow> maybe you can catch ogra's ear this weekend...or Burgwork in #edubuntut
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| 18:09 | <Burgwork> who runs the website?
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| 18:20 | <jarhed> hello
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| 18:21 | Has anyone tried out LTSPv5
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| 18:21 | <cliebow_> yeah
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| 18:22 | <jarhed> cliebow: Thanks for the help last time. I downloaded feisty and have the server up and running.
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| 18:23 | <cliebow_> Cool!!!
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| 18:23 | <jarhed> but the client keeps "kernel panic"
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| 18:24 | <cliebow_> ohhh. so the kernel loads and iniytramfs loads..but at switchroot it screws up
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| 18:24 | <jarhed> i'm gonna have to take your word on that...:)
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| 18:24 | sounds right though...it bombs after downloading from the tftp
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| 18:24 | <cliebow_> d o you see a ton of messages.. maybe not
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| 18:24 | <jarhed> yes
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| 18:25 | <cliebow_> you can comment out quiet spash in...err
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| 18:25 | <jarhed> although I don't know if I should have done the etherboot steps provided on the ubuntu community site?
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| 18:27 | <cliebow_> heck.. in powerpc it is in /var/lib/tftpbbot/ltsp/powerpc/yaboot.conf
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| 18:28 | so in i386 it must be /var/lib/ftpboot.ltsp/i386/
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| 18:28 | something
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| 18:29 | <jarhed> yes
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| 18:31 | <cliebow_> anyway if you can grep for quiet or splash on that directory you should see more messages
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| 18:32 | <jarhed> if I am using etherboot CD which image should the client use? pxelinux or vmlinuz?
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| 18:32 | <cliebow_> vmlinoz
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| 18:32 | heh
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| 18:33 | <jarhed> thats where I am confused... i followed the instructions for etherboot clients on the ubuntu site and ended up with a vmlinuz.etherboot image
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| 18:33 | much bigger....
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| 18:33 | <cliebow_> pxelinux is just a loader..
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| 18:33 | it has to be piccolo
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| 18:33 | it points to a kernel
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| 18:34 | <jarhed> what does?
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| 18:34 | <cliebow_> pxelinux,cfg
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| 18:34 | <jarhed> nope its a dir
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| 18:34 | <cliebow_> but in the dir is..
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| 18:34 | <jarhed> yes
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| 18:35 | it points to vmlinuz
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| 18:35 | should it point to vmlinuz.etherboot?
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| 18:36 | sorry for all the questions, I'm getting confused with all the documentation for 4
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| 18:36 | <cliebow_> ummm. i need to get the i386 laptop..
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| 18:42 | ok..if using pxe vmlinuz is the kernel..if using etherboot nbi,img is the kernel
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| 18:43 | <jarhed> nbi.img ?
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| 18:43 | ok
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| 18:45 | i took out the quiet but got no more info
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| 18:46 | using nbi.img ...still got a kernel panic
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| 18:46 | <cliebow_> you can have my dhcpd.conf if you like..169.244.3.137/dhcpd.conf
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| 18:46 | <jammcq> jarhed: what does the panic say?
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| 18:47 | <jarhed> not synching: Attempted to kill the idle task
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| 18:47 | <jammcq> before that
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| 18:48 | irule has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:48 | <jarhed> EIP: <numbers> dqeue_task <more numbers>
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| 18:48 | <jammcq> before that
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| 18:48 | <jarhed> there is a long string of hex code before that
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| 18:48 | <jammcq> before that
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| 18:48 | <jarhed> unkown boot option
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| 18:49 | <jammcq> c'mon, there's something causing the panic, and it's telling you
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| 18:49 | there ya go!!!!!
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| 18:49 | <jarhed> start_kernel
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| 18:49 | <jammcq> unknown boot option. what are you passing on the kernel command line?
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| 18:51 | <jarhed> sorry ... where am i looking?
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| 18:51 | <jammcq> how are you booting, Etherboot or PXE ?
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| 18:52 | <jarhed> etherboot
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| 18:52 | CD
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| 18:52 | <jammcq> what distro ?
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| 18:52 | <jarhed> ubuntu 7
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| 18:52 | <jammcq> 7 ?
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| 18:52 | you mean 7.4 ?
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| 18:52 | <jarhed> yeah
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| 18:52 | feisty
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| 18:53 | <cliebow_> so for etherboot and options passed would be in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?
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| 18:53 | <jammcq> ok, possibly
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| 18:53 | can you you paste your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf file to the pastebot ?
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| 18:53 | !pastebot
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| 18:53 | <ltspbot> jammcq: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 18:54 | <ltsppbot> "jarhed" pasted "dhcp.conf" (16 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/106
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| 18:54 | <jarhed> done
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| 18:55 | <cliebow_> looks pretty much completely default
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| 18:55 | <jammcq> yeah
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| 18:57 | <cliebow_> jarhed:so your server Is 192.168.1.254 perhaps?
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| 18:57 | <jarhed> .70
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| 18:57 | <cliebow_> k
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| 18:58 | <jarhed> the last error was unknown_bootoption+0x0/0x260 -if that helps any
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| 18:58 | <cliebow_> jarhed:i defer to jammcq..cause he is responsbile for creating it..
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| 18:59 | <jarhed> hey thanks for all the help...couple of years in the Marines and I've lost some linux skillz
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| 18:59 | <cliebow_> sure...
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| 19:01 | so if you look in the /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386 directory you see nbi.img..a simlink
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| 19:02 | <jarhed> yes
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| 19:02 | to nbi.img-2.6.20.-15-386
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| 19:02 | <cliebow_> to 2.6.20-9 or something
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| 19:02 | ahhh
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| 19:03 | and it might be over 5 meg..
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| 19:03 | near 6
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| 19:03 | <jarhed> 5.7
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| 19:03 | <cliebow_> seems appropriate
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| 19:04 | jammcq: could this be a motherboard issue/
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| 19:04 | <jarhed> it is an old compaq presario p1
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| 19:04 | <jammcq> cliebow_: seems unlikely
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| 19:05 | <cliebow_> that is a laptop?
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| 19:05 | <jammcq> that bootoption sure looks odd tho
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| 19:05 | <cliebow_> nooo
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| 19:05 | <jarhed> negative
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| 19:05 | <cliebow_> got anything else for a client to try/
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| 19:05 | <jarhed> not yet
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| 19:05 | i could boot up a vmware instance
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| 19:06 | <cliebow_> jammcq knows better about that..
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| 19:07 | how long between post and the error/
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| 19:07 | ?
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| 19:07 | <jarhed> couple of seconds
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| 19:08 | <cliebow_> in secinds 8~)
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| 19:08 | <jarhed> maybe 10
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| 19:08 | <cliebow_> grrr
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| 19:09 | <jammcq> can you try a different network card?
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| 19:09 | <cliebow_> i dont think the kernel ever boots...i "could" find a nother kernel to try.
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| 19:09 | <jarhed> only have intel cards
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| 19:09 | <jammcq> oh? intel cards usually have PXE onboard
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| 19:10 | <jarhed> well the machine would not boot from the card
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| 19:10 | cuz thats what i wanted to do initially
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| 19:10 | <cliebow_> early compaqs are challenged..some will boot an etherboot enabled card..soe wont
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| 19:11 | for instance
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| 19:11 | <jammcq> maybe there's a bios update available
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| 19:12 | <jarhed> i am going to look into that...i'm using a CD to boot for now
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| 19:12 | <cliebow_> i had 10 flat identical looking presarios...five wouldd pick up a crad immediatley..the other five with different bios number Would not
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| 19:15 | <jarhed> well these are pretty rusty ...
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| 19:15 | the machines NOT the nics
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| 19:16 | <cliebow_> heh
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| 19:16 | they prob have a 3com onboard nic?
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| 19:21 | <jarhed> no nics
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| 19:21 | all came with modems
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| 19:40 | <jarhed> well whatever my problem is .. it's hardware related.
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| 19:41 | although slow , I am booting up on another system using the same type NIC
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| 19:42 | <cliebow_> jarhed:i am sure that is right...
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| 19:42 | <jarhed> s l o w
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| 19:42 | <cliebow_> it would be possible prob to go back to 4.2..
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| 19:42 | alonsdie your ltsp5
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| 19:43 | <jarhed> sorry what was that? alonsdie?
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| 19:43 | <cliebow_> alongside
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| 19:43 | next to
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| 19:43 | <jarhed> oh
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| 19:43 | gotcha
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| 19:43 | well ... the system died when trying to start x
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| 19:43 | <cliebow_> intel chipset for video?
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| 19:44 | or nv/
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| 19:44 | <jarhed> couldn't tell you
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| 19:44 | not nv
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| 19:44 | old acer aspire
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| 19:44 | <cliebow_> Most chipsets are autodetected,,but not al
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| 19:45 | <jarhed> actually it's still running, but lost the monitor signal completely
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| 19:46 | <cliebow_> tomorrow if you like i can tar up an /opt/ltsp/i386-4.2 and a 4.2 kernel
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| 19:47 | <jarhed> sure thank you...
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| 19:48 | last one: ctrl+bksp kills the X, I can see the prompt; but then X starts up again; how do I set the minimal X settings?
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| 19:50 | <cliebow_> if you make an lts.conf you can set xserver=auto or nv or ati etc for that client..
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| 19:50 | <jarhed> i was about to ask about lts.conf
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| 19:50 | thanks...i have some reading to do
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| 19:56 | <cliebow_> the chroot will be at http://169.244.3.137/ltsp4.2.tar
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| 19:56 | 8% now
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| 20:02 | <jarhed> thanks
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| 20:03 | <cliebow_> 33...should have don e the kernel first ..see if that much worked
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| 20:24 | <cliebow_> and vmlinuz-2.6.16.1-ltsp-2.gz
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| 20:25 | hm
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| 20:38 | <youngin> having a problem with localised soound will someone help
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> youngin: which linux distro?
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| 20:48 | <youngin> fedora
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| 20:49 | k12
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| 20:49 | i can't seem to get any other distro to work
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| 20:51 | <vagrantc> you've tried all of them? :)\
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| 21:52 | <youngin> can someone help me with local sound issuses
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| 22:03 | ok so much for getting help here i will keep digging
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| 23:37 | <jarhed> cliebow_: jammcq: Just wanted to let u guys know that I booted a thin client vmware instance and the display came up / although I can;t login
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| 23:37 | least I know it's those OLD machines
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| 23:53 | <freemind> someone can help with qemu or vmware???
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