IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 April 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:02 | <alkisg> Gadi: ?!!!!!
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| 03:02 | Helloooooow there!
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| 04:47 | <dhana013> Guys suggest any open source LTSP manager available, please guide me. I already tried with http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/bzr/ it's not working, shows some ltsp-manager:9511): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
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| 08:05 | <Hyperbyte> Gooooood morning everyone!
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| 08:05 | knipwim, happy queensday. :P
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| 08:17 | <markit> hi, time ago alkisg told me a command to see what files are opened by a program when run, and I used it to find what config files firefox was reading at startup. I don't remember that command! any clue?
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| 08:18 | <muppis> lsof
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| 08:22 | <Hyperbyte> Spurgeon!
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| 08:24 | <markit> muppis: lsof shows used file but I need those open during startup
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| 08:25 | once ff has started, lsof is of no help
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| 08:25 | except if there is some flat to specify the program to run and "monitor"
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| 08:26 | <muppis> -c c This option selects the listing of files for processes executing the command that begins with the characters of c.
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| 08:26 | Option of lsof
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| 08:27 | Which doesn't work.
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| 08:28 | strace is other one I've used to see what happens.
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| 08:29 | <JensenDan> what port does ltsp listen on? i want to connect a client program to the server, from the internet. so i need to open the port.
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| 08:31 | <sep> JensenDan, ltsp ? is a system for remote booting thinclients. if you want to connect a internet client to the server use x2go, or freenx, or vnc, or x+ssh, or xrdp or something similar.
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| 08:31 | <JensenDan> sep . yeah, but i can still connect to the terminal server part without PXE booting, and using a client, right??
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| 08:32 | what port does it listen on?
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| 08:32 | <sep> atleast x2go, freenx, x+ssh are all ssh based so that would be port 22, xrdp would be 3389, vnc... is 590n (where n is session number) iirc
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| 08:36 | <JensenDan> hmm-
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| 08:37 | <sep> JensenDan, i normally just use X with ssh forwarding.(i have linux on all ends) and fast networks, you may want to use a light cipher ;; if you have a windows client look at xrdp and just use remote desktop on the windows client.
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| 08:37 | i also like x2go. but i would not bother with that for just a single client
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| 08:38 | <JensenDan> iam a bit confused now.. do you agree with me if i say that port 3389 is the one i need to open out to the wan, if iam running out of box ltsp, and want a simple software client to connect from the internet?
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| 08:38 | <sep> JensenDan, no. you are confused about what ltsp is.
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| 08:39 | JensenDan, out of the box the ltsp server have X11 and ssh. ; so you need a X11 client and ssh to speak to it remotely (port 22)
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| 08:39 | <JensenDan> oh.
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| 08:39 | <sep> ie any linux machine :)
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| 08:40 | <JensenDan> yep.
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| 08:40 | <sep> or if you use windows you can use xming+putty.
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| 08:40 | <JensenDan> and, what about windows ? :D
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| 08:40 | thanks.
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| 08:40 | <sep> but it is not the fastest for slow internet links.
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| 08:41 | so you can apt-get install xrdp on the server. and use remote desktop (then you use 3389)
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| 08:41 | that have absolutly nothing to do with ltsp btw :) you can do that on any linux machine
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| 08:42 | or you can use x2go server and client software installation required
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| 08:42 | <JensenDan> does the windows clients and the linux clients share settings?
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| 08:42 | then
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| 08:42 | <sep> what kind of settings ?
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| 08:43 | <JensenDan> if i log in to "user" from pxe boot, will it be the same "user" if i login from windows client?
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| 08:43 | <knipwim> Hyperbyte: yeah, you too
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| 08:43 | <sep> http://blog.nth-design.com/2010/05/19/x11-putty-xming/
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| 08:44 | JensenDan, yes it will be the same user
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| 08:44 | <JensenDan> super. is it hard to set up?
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| 08:44 | please name a x11 client, so i can try :P
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| 08:45 | <sep> xming. but i think it's not what you what
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| 08:45 | since I belive you want to run the full desktop
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| 08:45 | <JensenDan> i need to run it as i client.
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| 08:46 | <sep> JensenDan, in X world the program drawing is the client; the program dispaying, is the server :)
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| 08:46 | if you want just one client i'd use xrdp
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| 08:47 | <JensenDan> I want many clients, thin clients local, and "home workstations" from the internet.. :) get me now ? :)
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| 08:47 | <sep> if i wanted a real remote desktop i'd use nomachines web client, and freenx. clients just browse to desktop.domain.com in any browser with java. enter username and password, and get their desktop
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| 08:47 | or x2go with a program installed
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| 08:48 | been a while since i used this, but if x2go have a webclient i'd use thatone now :)
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| 08:48 | <JensenDan> so, there is actually no way to connect to this linux terminal server. from wan? as it is right now?
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| 08:48 | <markit> muppis: was strace, thanks a lot (<alkisg> markit: strace -e trace=file firefox 2>&1 | grep -i <part of the filename>)
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| 08:48 | <muppis> markit, no prob.
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| 08:48 | <sep> JensenDan, sure there is. every machine on the planet have ssh. (except windows)
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| 08:48 | <JensenDan> iam used to Win terminal server. wich you probaly can hear.
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| 08:49 | <sep> there you need xming and putty :)
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| 08:49 | * markit needs a "personal google search engine" for his notes | |
| 08:49 | <muppis> Heh.
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| 08:49 | <JensenDan> no apt-get on xming?
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| 08:49 | <sep> JensenDan, xrdp tries to emulate the wind terminal server thingy just apt-get install xrdp then try with a windows client to connect with remote desktop to the server
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| 08:49 | would be the fastest test, and you can test inside your lan if it's acceptable for you
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| 08:50 | JensenDan, xming is a windows Xserver
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| 08:50 | <JensenDan> oh :D
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| 08:50 | first of all, with the xming i was talking about a linux client to the linux server :)
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| 08:50 | <sep> JensenDan, xming and putty are things you need to install on windows to get basic ssh and X features that all nix based os's normaly have by default.
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| 08:52 | but basic X and ssh is difficult for people that don't want to read or learn something new (old).
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| 08:52 | so xrdp on the server and remote desktop on the client is probably easier to get people to use.
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| 08:52 | x2go or freenx + a webclient is the easiest for people. but also the hardest for the admin :)
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| 08:55 | <dhana013> Guys suggest any open source LTSP manager available, please guide me. I already tried with http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/bzr/ it's not working, shows some ltsp-manager:9511): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
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| 08:56 | <JensenDan> sep . works like a charm, exept the protocol thing, it disconnects me beacuse of a protocol, right now iam doing win client to linux srv
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| 08:56 | <markit> dhana013: what do you mean with "manager"? epoptes let you control a ltsp class
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| 08:57 | dhana013: http://www.epoptes.org/
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| 08:57 | <ogra_> dhana013, thats a dead project (feel free to pick it up and finish it ;) )
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| 08:59 | <sep> JensenDan, protocol thing.. what protocol? ; win client... what win client ; ?
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| 09:00 | <JensenDan> The build in windows terminal client.. and i have done apt-get xrdp. it shows me the login screen, but disconnects me beacuse of protocol failure, no matter what protocol i choise.
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| 09:02 | <sep> JensenDan, i noraly just go with the default and i get a login window
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| 09:03 | JensenDan, also xrdp normaly pull in one of these ; vnc4server | tightvncserver | vnc-server
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| 09:03 | if that did not happen you might have to install one of them manually
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| 09:03 | <JensenDan> everything is default, but no matter what protocol is disconnects me beacuse of "error in protocol" if i use a linux client, it works like a charm. can see after the apt-get it did install some vnc server
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| 09:04 | <sep> JensenDan, sorry not experinced that.
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| 09:05 | also it's not ltsp related anymore, ask in #distro i guess debian or ubuntu :)
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| 09:06 | <JensenDan> all right :)
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| 09:14 | sep to let you know, it is because it is win 7, and the apt-get gives me ver 0,4 i need 0,5 to connect with all windows
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| 09:15 | <sep> JensenDan, still on lenny ?
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| 09:16 | <JensenDan> 10 somthing
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| 09:25 | <dhana013> markit, Not like this broadcasting
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| 09:25 | <JensenDan> lynx iam on.
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| 09:26 | <dhana013> markit, my idea is give permission in access usb printer sound like this
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| 09:35 | <markit> dhana013: maybe printer permission can be set through cups? never done myself
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| 09:36 | <dhana013> markit, you check this http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/LTSPManager/ i want like this, it's not work
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| 09:37 | <ogra_> dhana013, see what i said above, the project is abandoned
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| 09:37 | <dhana013> markit, show some warring (ltsp-manager:4882): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
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| 09:37 | <ogra_> (and was never fully finished)
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| 09:37 | <ogra_> i just didnt delete it yet in case some dev wants to pick it up and finish or rewrite it
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| 09:37 | <markit> dhana013: you should wait for Alkisg, I think he has something like that for his greek schools, maybe he is going to internationalize like did with epoptes
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| 09:39 | <dhana013> ogra_, how to solve this issue (ltsp-manager:4882): libglade-WARNING **: unknown widget class 'GnomeFileEntry'
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| 09:39 | <ogra_> you need to rewrite the app for the newer pythin-gnome implementation
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| 09:40 | it wont run or be usable as is, it was written for a very old release of the libs
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| 09:40 | and never fully finished
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| 09:40 | (read: if you dont plan to rewrite it, just ignore it)
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| 09:41 | <dhana013> ogra_, Any other project is there, something you written like this
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| 09:42 | <ogra_> not from me, as markit suggested, wait for alkis
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| 09:44 | <dhana013> ogra_, I am new to ltsp. what is alkis?
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| 09:45 | <ogra_> he is a developer and supporter who usually hangs around in this channel
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| 09:45 | his nickname is alkisg ... just wait for him to appear
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| 09:45 | hey Gadi !
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| 09:50 | <dhana013> ogra_, I try with your project , Your python script write custom lts.conf selected particular user. file correct
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| 09:52 | <ogra_> you wont get anywhere with ltsp-manager it is not finished and even if it would start it does nothing
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| 09:52 | the screenshots are mostly mockups, there are no backends in the code that would actually deal with the configs
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| 09:52 | do not use it unless you want to write a lot of code for it to finish it
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| 09:53 | <dhana013> ogra_, ok
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| 15:07 | <markit> hi alkisg :) Long time ago I took note about how you organize LTSP users in schools, and now I need such an aproach for a school but can't find the notes (so far). Could you please briefly recall me?
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| 15:07 | as you know, I create an user for each child, but in that school they will have 2 children for each computer
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| 15:08 | and probably 2 schools, primary and secondary, sharing the same lab
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| 15:09 | <||cw> as in, they are side by side sharing the kb?
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| 15:18 | <markit> ||cw: I suppose so, sad situation but no money = no pc
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| 15:19 | ||cw: also short minded teachers think is a "good thing" so students can help each other
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| 15:19 | what I've seen so far is that the one that is able to use the pc does, the other talks around
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| 15:19 | increasing noise and confusion
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| 15:19 | <||cw> yeah
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| 15:19 | been there as a kid, it was "fun time"
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| 15:20 | so, not many options as a solution to that
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| 15:21 | do they have any saved files, or is it pretty much just research/web work?
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| 15:22 | biggest issues I see, if you give them a shared login, and you need to split up the "team", it'll take some manual work to separate out the files
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| 15:23 | if one is supposed to work a bit, then they switch, you could setup logins on 2 screens so they can hot-key switch between them without logging off
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> (06:19:04 μμ) markit: ||cw: also short minded teachers think is a "good thing" so students can help each other => there's a whole theory behind this, don't think of them as short sighted
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| 15:24 | <markit> ||cw: I suppose they will assign tasks for the "team"
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| 15:25 | alkisg: ups :)
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Some of them might not be able to utilize this, but some others might
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| 15:25 | <markit> s/"short minded"/"except alkisg"
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> markit: I suppose you haven't read any paedagogical theories, did you?
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| 15:25 | <markit> alkisg: yes, I was a "bit" to harsh
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Please don't judge teachers before you do :)
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| 15:25 | <markit> alkisg: no, but I observe what I see ;P
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> As for the accounts, some teachers here use your model,
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| 15:26 | and some others use the "one account per PC per class" model
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| 15:26 | E.g. user01a1
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| 15:26 | <markit> alkisg: ehm, meeting many of them have made me think the worse I could about the category, but of course every generalization has his limits
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| 15:26 | alkisg: and also my teachers are very different from yours
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> where a1 is one class, others may be a2, b1, b2, c1 ,c2 etc
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| 15:27 | <markit> alkisg: mm but if me and my friend are user01a1
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| 15:27 | and them next year we move to second class
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| 15:27 | we loose our files and the new user01a1 will find our files in his account?
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| 15:28 | ah, ok
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> A script that handles end of year is necessary in all cases
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| 15:28 | Even with per user accounts, you still need group management
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| 15:28 | <markit> true
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| 15:29 | but what about a "neutral" account aproach?
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> That's why we're developing a user management tool
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| 15:29 | <markit> accounts like "abcd" not related to class
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> Are they student accounts?
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| 15:29 | <markit> Bob and Peter will have abc01
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| 15:30 | during all they work in the school
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> Are Bob and Peter students, or teachers, or something else?
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| 15:30 | <markit> whatever class they are, they will find their files
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| 15:30 | students, teachers will have their personal accounts
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> Don't you have split classes, where Bob and Peter won't be in the same class for some hours?
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> E.g. here class A1 splits into to, "A1a" and "A1b", depending on their english language level, advanced or not
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| 15:31 | Also, you again have the end of year problem
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| 15:32 | What if Bob fails the class?
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| 15:32 | Or what if they fight, and they want to change seats for the rest of the year?
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| 15:33 | <markit> with user01a1 is the same proble, isn't?
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 15:33 | <markit> and in addition next year I HAVE to change in user01a2
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> That's why with all methods, a user management tool is needed
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| 15:33 | <markit> sure, I want to minimize efforts
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> End of year is a big change for all
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| 15:33 | <markit> and re-use what I've already done for single accounts
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> You probably need clean accounts anyway
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| 15:34 | <markit> probably, thanks for the tips
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| 15:34 | <alkisg> np
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| 18:12 | <highvoltage> alkisg: where do I find the ltsp release notes again?
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| 18:14 | <highvoltage> (ah found them on the lists)
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| 19:51 | <mnevans> Quick question for a fresh ubuntu 12.04 LTS with LTSP (5.3?): there is no /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server -- is the ltsp dhcp server somewhere else now?
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| 19:52 | ...Or just point me to updated documentation pages - I was having trouble finding any. TIA.
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| 20:14 | <||cw> I think it's all migrating to the launchpad site
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| 20:15 | IIRC there was some talk of dnsmasq, I don't know if that's been switch to default or not
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| 20:16 | for something simple (dhcp/dns wise) like a test ltsp deployment, dnsmasq is so much easier than nsc's
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| 20:16 | isc^^
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| 21:42 | <mnevans> Is there ltsp documentation for version 5.3/Ubuntu 12.04 LTS?
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| 21:48 | <||cw> other than https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP ?
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| 21:52 | <mnevans> Right - that is current as of 8.04, or perhaps 10.04...
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| 21:59 | <mnevans> Specifically, with ubuntu 10.10/LTSP 5 install, I don't recall/have notes to have installed dhcp3-server separately; but it looks like I might need to now, as it doesn't install as a dependency under ubuntu 12.04 LTS and install of ltsp-server-standalone, openssh-server.
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| 22:01 | <||cw> is it a recommends? I know they changed a lot of that
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| 22:05 | <mnevans> @ ||cw, I don't know. Under 'ubuntu software center' (I miss synaptic), and ltsp-server, it lists 'isc-dhcp-server' as an 'add-in', and this is checked, whatever that means (I have some studying of 12.04 to do...)
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| 22:08 | from the documentation: "...isc-dhcp-server is the dummy transitional package from v3 dhcp packages to the "new style" dhcp packages."
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| 23:01 | <fuzai> Has anyone tried to do a fresh install of ubuntu 12.04 lts ltsp server and been successful?
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| 23:01 | I've tried to install it twice, and I think the nbd-server is failing to start
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