IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 29 December 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 15:29 | <cliebow> sbalneav Scottie
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| 15:29 | !
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| 15:29 | <sbalneav> Hey cliebow!
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| 15:29 | Hope you had a Merry Christmas!
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| 15:29 | And a happy new year
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| 15:29 | <cliebow> not yet 8~)
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| 15:30 | had a couple daughters nd a grandson home together..that was nice
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| 15:30 | What fundamental difference is ther between these two lines..one breaks cgi..the other doesnt
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| 15:31 | my $date=`date +"%b%d"`;
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| 15:31 | # my $date=localtime;
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| 15:31 | chomp $date;
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| 15:31 | they look identical with strings..just trying to shorten date stamp
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| 15:32 | <sbalneav> Hmmm, not a perl expert, one sec
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| 15:34 | <sbalneav> sbalneav@ltsp20:~$ cat foo.pl
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| 15:34 | #!/usr/bin/perl
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| 15:34 | my $date=localtime;
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| 15:34 | chomp $date;
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| 15:34 | print $date;
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| 15:34 | sbalneav@ltsp20:~$ ./foo.pl
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| 15:34 | Thu Dec 29 09:34:39 2016sbalneav@ltsp20:~$
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| 15:34 | works for me
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| 15:36 | <cliebow> gotta trigger the output
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| 15:46 | <sbalneav> wb vagrantc
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| 15:46 | <bennabiy> wow, amazing to see people all on at the same itme
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| 15:46 | time
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| 15:51 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 15:53 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: What do we need to accomplish next, in your humble opinion?
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| 15:55 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: presuming the sshauth/pam/nss stuff is satisfactorially resolved... probably ltspd's functionality to replace lts.conf and all that
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| 15:55 | <sbalneav> ok, I'm waiting for the code dump from Alkis, once I have that, I'll get to work
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> i should also take a look at packaging the sshauth stuff such that we could replace libpam-sshauth with it, though last i looked you had already done much of the work for that
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| 15:56 | * vagrantc got some ltspd config file parsing stuff via email a while back | |
| 15:57 | <vagrantc> ~15th december
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| 15:57 | <sbalneav> Right, but alkisg said they also had some web stuff done as well
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| 15:57 | <bennabiy> wow, is progress actually being made? I might be able to help at some point here as well
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| 15:57 | <sbalneav> He was gonna look it up.
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> ah, nice.
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| 15:58 | <sbalneav> bennabiy: https://git.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/+git/ltsp-pam
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: yes... i'm hopeful we might see ltsp6 in 2017
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| 15:58 | <bennabiy> YAY!
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| 15:59 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i don't imagine it'll be that hard, but given that we haven't implemented thin clients, remoteapps might be more important
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| 16:00 | or at least ltsp5.99999
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| 16:02 | <sbalneav> Now, how should we do that, just provide a "remote" command, and let people make their own desktop icons?
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| 16:03 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i haven't tested any of the ltsp-pam commits from 2016-12-23 ... i should probably do that
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| 16:03 | <sbalneav> Yeah, give 'em a try; things are pretty configurable.
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i wonder if we can do some sshfs mount trickery to automatically populate the remote desktop entries
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| 16:04 | <vagrantc> e.g. mount a dir with all the stuff copied to it, add it to XDG_DATA_DIRS, copy and tweak the .desktop files on the remote server or something
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| 16:05 | i guess tying it to sshfs is a little limiting
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| 16:05 | or even ssh at all
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| 16:06 | <vagrantc> e.g. if they're doing say, LDAP-based auth with NFS homedirs ... silly to require ssh
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| 16:06 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 16:06 | <vagrantc> of course, if that's what they're doing ... they could easily do that without LTSP :)
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| 16:07 | <sbalneav> Since it's just a limited number of apps that you'd tend to want to do remote... maybe just a script with an rc.d type dir that auto-creates the remote .desktop entries?
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| 16:08 | Here
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| 16:09 | 's a little "remote" command I'm using at LA:
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| 16:12 | http://pastebin.com/Ztm63zDR
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| 16:12 | <sbalneav> you'd say (on the client) "remote-client iceweasel"
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| 16:13 | Note that it encodes all the command line parameters in base64
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| 16:13 | that way, you don't have ridiculous escaping difficulties to deal with with goofy file names.
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| 16:16 | <vagrantc> clever trick :)
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| 16:17 | it does require support server-side ... i guess you could even copy the client-side script server-side and execute it
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| 16:17 | actually, we could generate a python snippit, scp it over, and execute it
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| 16:18 | as long as we stuck with core python functionality...
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| 16:18 | <sbalneav> sys, base64 and subprocess are
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| 16:18 | <vagrantc> which is basically what ansible does... :)
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| 16:19 | sbalneav: if you generated the server-side part and copied it, you wouldn't have to use base64
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| 16:20 | <sbalneav> Where would we stick this executable-that-we-generate?
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| 16:21 | /tmp?
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| 16:22 | <vagrantc> sure, /tmp or ~/.local/somedir ... or whatever, really
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| 16:22 | i *think* ansible uses ~/.somedir
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| 16:23 | yeah, it uses ~/.ansible/tmp/
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| 16:23 | some risk of stuff getting leftover from aborted processes
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| 16:26 | <sbalneav> hm
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| 16:26 | I could try coding something up
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| 16:27 | <vagrantc> i'm not *positive* this is a good approach ... but it basically means all they need server-side is python + whatever commands you're running
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| 16:27 | could also do it in shell, but as you noted, then we get into filename escape hell
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| 16:28 | <sbalneav> Couldn't we simply have the remote server side command sitting in /srv/ltsp/scripts?
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| 16:29 | then on the server, execute "/srv/ltsp/scripts/...."?
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| 16:29 | rather than the copy?
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| 16:30 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: well, then you need to have remote server-side support
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| 16:31 | sbalneav: which may introduce compatibilitiy issues when the client and server-side versions differ
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| 16:31 | <sbalneav> hm, ok
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| 16:31 | <vagrantc> cross-computer dependencies are kind of nightmarish to maintain
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| 16:32 | <sbalneav> So where would be the standard tmp dir for the home directory? .local/tmp?
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| 16:32 | is that a standard somewhere?
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| 16:32 | <vagrantc> not sure off the top of my head
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| 16:33 | granted, maybe you've got a system with python3 and python2 ... so maybe the compatibility nightmares are still there
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| 16:33 | <sbalneav> Well, I'll start with .local/tmp, and we'll fix it later if there's a better place
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| 16:34 | for what we're doing, python 2/3 differences should be minimal
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> uh-oh ... does libpam-python support python3 ?
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| 16:34 | <sbalneav> Dunno.
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| 16:34 | I'd have to see.
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| 16:34 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'd say .local/ltsp/
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| 16:34 | <sbalneav> .local/ltsp? ok
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| 16:35 | <vagrantc> would be really good to ensure new code is python3 ...
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| 16:35 | <sbalneav> I think the pam-python library specifically calls 2
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| 16:36 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: .local/ltsp/remoteapps/example-XXXXXXX (mktemp style or soemthing)
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| 16:36 | <sbalneav> yeah, depends on libpython2.7 (>= 2.7)
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| 16:36 | * vagrantc sighs | |
| 16:36 | <sbalneav> That bad?
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| 16:37 | <vagrantc> python2 has an EOL that's not so far off
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| 16:39 | python 2 end-of-life ~2020
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| 16:39 | * vagrantc lives in a world of scifi | |
| 16:41 | <vagrantc> i mean, i'm sure it'll live on like a zombie
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| 16:41 | but i'd hate to have long-term dependencies on zombies
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| 16:41 | <sbalneav> All we'd need to do is submit patches upstream for pam-python to support python 3
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| 16:41 | I'd take that on.
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| 16:42 | * vagrantc continues to be amazed at sbalneav's can-do attitude | |
| 16:43 | <sbalneav> ok, I'll work on an initial implementation of a "remote" command today
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| 16:43 | <bennabiy> sbalneav: off work for a little time?
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| 16:44 | <sbalneav> Nope, I'm at work now. It just happens to be slow. :D
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| 16:44 | <bennabiy> ah
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| 16:44 | <sbalneav> And since I administer an entire IT department that uses ltsp....
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| 16:45 | developing ltsp is part of my job XD
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| 16:45 | <vagrantc> yay!
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| 16:46 | <bennabiy> That works. It works something similar for me, but I have a couple other projects which are at front burner now, but I am encouraged to see a little thrust towards 5.9999 -> 6 :)
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| 16:46 | It almost was starting to feel like alkisg and vagrantc were getting worn out ;)
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| 16:48 | <vagrantc> and here's a python2 countdown https://pythonclock.org/
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| 16:52 | hrm. so debian stretch will probably have ended support about the same time as python2, although stretch long-term-support might have challenges
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: well, tested the latest ltsp-pam commits, seems to work after hitting it a bit
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| 17:23 | bennabiy: well, if you'd like to give it a test:
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| 17:23 | !pam | echo bennabiy
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| 17:23 | <ltsp> bennabiy pam: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Dev:LTSPPamNotes
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> that's kind of where it's at
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| 17:23 | i updated that a few days ago, think it's still reasonably current
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| 17:24 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: I should be able to test that out in the next couple days
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> it currently only works with fat clients ...
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| 17:25 | though i think there's some code to support thin clients, but i don't know that long-term we'll be able to support it
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| 17:36 | i wonder if we should start tracking bugs on ltsp-pam
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| 17:36 | <sbalneav> Prolly
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| 17:36 | <vagrantc> e.g. using launchpad
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| 17:38 | i wish there were a bugs-per VCS or soemthing ... i have no idea how to file bugs on this
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| 17:39 | and https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream just gives me a search interface for bugs ...
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| 17:39 | how do i file a bug?
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| 17:40 | and if the search comes up empty, it doesn't provide a link to create a bug
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| 17:46 | <vagrantc> apparently, i was looking for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+filebug
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| 17:49 | * vagrantc was thinking if we recreate an ltsp-docs package, to use markdown and pandoc (or some other markdown-to-pdf exporter) rather than the docbook-xml mess | |
| 17:49 | <vagrantc> i think it'd be easier to edit and maintain if the text were more plaintext-readable
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| 17:51 | <sbalneav> I use rst myself
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| 17:53 | where did the old ltsp-docs package go?
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| 17:54 | I'm not seeing it on https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/
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| 17:57 | <vagrantc> maybe under ltsp-docwriters or one of the other half-dozen ltsp subgroups
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| 17:57 | https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-docwriters/ltsp/ltsp-docs-trun
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| 17:58 | k
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| 17:58 | <sbalneav> found it, yeah.,
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| 17:58 | <vagrantc> i'd be fine with .rst too ... though i've got more other projects using markdown, so minor bias in that direction
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| 17:59 | though until we have something to document for ltsp6, it's a bit premature to worry about that
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| 18:03 | !todo
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| 18:03 | <ltsp> I do not know about 'todo', but I do know about these similar topics: 'bennabiy_todo', 'todo-jammcq-sbalneav', 'alkisg-todo'
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| 18:03 | <vagrantc> !alkisg-todo
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| 18:03 | <ltsp> alkisg-todo: (#1) support xnbd-proxy for local caching: https://bitbucket.org/hirofuchi/xnbd/wiki/Home#!scenario-2-simple-proxy-server-distributed-copy-on-write, or (#2) Support UEFI, or (#3) support for per-user login commands in lts.conf, or (#4) put panic=60 in the kernel cmdline, or (#5) document bind-interfaces, or (#6) test the null cipher with https://launchpad.net/~yoda-jazz-kc/+archive/ubuntu/hpn-ssh, or (#7) (1 more message)
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| 18:04 | <vagrantc> !todo-jammcq-sbalneav
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| 18:04 | <ltsp> todo-jammcq-sbalneav: delete or close http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/ltsp-beginners/ http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/ltsp-announce/ http://sourceforge.net/p/ltsp/mailman/ltsp-translations/
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| 18:05 | <vagrantc> !bennabiy_todo
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| 18:05 | <ltsp> bennabiy_todo: Finish patching LinuxMint code to detect NON mint chroot build requests on mint, and to build a mint chroot on non mint server.
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| 18:16 | <bennabiy> !forget bennabiy_todo
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| 18:16 | <ltsp> The operation succeeded.
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| 18:17 | <bennabiy> I think I got that working
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> good good
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| 18:21 | jammcq has joined IRC (jammcq!~jam@c-68-40-171-103.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) | |
| 18:22 | <jammcq> hey guys, love what i'm seeing/hearing about ltsp6 so far. I'm looking forward to what you guys are cooking up
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> jammcq: heya!
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| 18:23 | <jammcq> hey hey vagrantc
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| 18:23 | <vagrantc> i think we've moving very close to the "user may have no idea they're using LTSP at all" goal
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| 18:34 | <sbalneav> jammcq!
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> and cliebow, no less.
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| 18:35 | what is this, some sort of reuinion? :)
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| 18:35 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 18:35 | <sbalneav> Synchronicity
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| 18:35 | * sbalneav rocks out to The Police | |
| 18:37 | lucascastro has left IRC (lucascastro!~lucas@186.227.185.10, Remote host closed the connection) | |
| 18:37 | * jammcq is rocking out to Supertramp, live in Paris | |
| 18:38 | <vagrantc> live, as in, recorded? :)
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| 18:38 | <jammcq> heh, yeah
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| 18:38 | I tried to get them to come to my house and play in my living room... so far, not happening
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| 18:46 | * vagrantc kicks ltsp.org | |
| 18:47 | * vagrantc forgets who had access to the ltsp.org web server | |
| 18:55 | ltsp has joined IRC (ltsp!bot@ltsp.org) | |
| 18:58 | * vagrantc cheers | |
| 18:58 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: for this remote implementation, do you want me to #!/usr/bin/python3
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: yeah, would be preferrable
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| 19:10 | sbalneav: i guess distros might need to patch that if they don't ship python3 as /usr/bin/python3
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| 19:10 | <sbalneav> Or should I just make it python 3 workable, and #!/usr/bin/python?
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> the other thing i've seen projects do is #!/usr/bin/env python3
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| 19:11 | sbalneav: i'd be inclined to just go with python3 ... but really depends on how much more complicated it is
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| 19:12 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 19:12 | * bennabiy votes for python3 | |
| 19:12 | <vagrantc> given that this is a new project, and we're hoping to not actually require anything outside of python's core modules...
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| 19:12 | <bennabiy> might as well bite the bullet now, unless there is a good reason not to
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| 19:13 | <sbalneav> agreed
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> are there distros that don't ship python version 3?
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| 19:13 | <bennabiy> there are version which do not have python3 as the default for python, but not sure about not available
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| 19:14 | <vagrantc> right, debian still defaults to python2
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| 19:14 | er, usr/bin/python -> python2
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| 19:15 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 19:15 | but it ships with python3 as well, correct?
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| 19:15 | <vagrantc> might have to search for the python binary name
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| 19:15 | yes, as /usr/bin/python3*
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| 19:16 | (there are numerous symlinks to specific versions)
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| 19:16 | <bennabiy> thought so
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| 19:16 | * vagrantc wonders what fedora's python landscape is like | |
| 19:16 | <bennabiy> fire up a VM ;)
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| 19:16 | <vagrantc> i really should just have a fedora live image to fire up in a VM
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| 19:16 | <bennabiy> are we going to have fedora supported again?
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| 19:17 | <vagrantc> there should be a lot less to maintain
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| 19:17 | so hopefully?
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| 19:18 | <bennabiy> that would be great
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| 19:19 | in general, there would have to be a list of distro specific names for apps, and the typical locations of them
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| 19:20 | * vagrantc wonders if opensuse wouln't need to actually reimplement everything in kiwi-ltsp if we do this right | |
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| 19:20 | <bennabiy> perhaps
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| 19:20 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: what do you mean?
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| 19:21 | ah, we'll need cross-distro communication ... e.g. a Debian client logging into a Fedora server will need to know which python implementation to use
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| 19:21 | but that's about it
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| 19:21 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: I was just thinking that between the centos/fedora line and the say, debian/ubuntu line , some binaries are named differently
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| 19:21 | <vagrantc> i think the number of binaries we'll need will be quite small
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| 19:21 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> so that might even be a non-issue if those happen to be consistant
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| 19:22 | <bennabiy> true
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| 19:22 | <vagrantc> and we can rely onm $PATH
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> well, apparently fedora 25 only has python3 by default
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| 19:57 | for what that's worth
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| 19:58 | <sbalneav> So they won't have pam_python
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> oh.
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| 20:01 | sbalneav: apparently there is a python3-PyPam package, though
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| 20:02 | <sbalneav> oh?
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| 20:02 | in fedora? and Debian?
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| 20:02 | <vagrantc> "PAM (pluggable Authentication Module) bindings for Python 3."
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| 20:02 | in fedora
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| 20:02 | called python3-pampy in debian
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| 20:03 | * vagrantc sighs | |
| 20:03 | * vagrantc laughs | |
| 20:03 | * vagrantc wonders | |
| 20:03 | <sbalneav> Not the same thin.
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| 20:04 | It's the same as the debian package python-pam
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| 20:04 | which is not libpam-python :D
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 20:06 | i just found python-pam
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| 20:07 | not the same thing... but what's the difference between python-pam and libpam-python ?
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| 20:07 | with python-pam or python3-pampy ... would we have to write some C code again and then ccall the python bits?
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| 20:07 | <sbalneav> python-pam allows you to create applications that call the pam stack; i.e. if you wanted to write, say, a display manager in python that calls the pam stack to authenticate.
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| 20:08 | libpam-python allows you to actually create modules that run ON THE PAM STACK, in python.
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| 20:08 | <vagrantc> ah, it's which direction you're looking at pam from
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| 20:08 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 20:08 | so python-pam I'd call "client side"
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| 20:09 | <vagrantc> so, apparently, libpam-python not only needs python3 support, but also needs to be made available in fedora/centos/whatever
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| 20:09 | <sbalneav> right.
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| 20:10 | The latter isn't much of a problem.
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| 20:10 | I'll send an email to the libpam-python author
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| 20:10 | <sbalneav> offer to help with a python3 port.
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| 20:11 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i already created a libpam-python python3 support bug in launchpad and assigned it to you :)
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| 20:15 | <sbalneav> heh
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> fwiw, python2 is available in fedora, no idea if they have any policies regarding new python2 code
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| 20:25 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field
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| 20:25 | .structural_subscriber=&field.tag=ltsp6&field.tags_combinator=ANY&field.has_cve.used=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.affects_me.used=&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_branches.used=&field.has_branches=on&field.has_no_branches.used=&field.has_no_branches=on&field.has_blueprints.used=&field.has_blueprints=on&field.has_no_blueprints.used=&field.has_no_blueprints=on&search=Search
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| 20:25 | whoah
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| 20:25 | that was supposed to be a link to the ltsp bugs marked ltsp6
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| 20:25 | tagged ltsp6
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| 20:26 | but not exactly useable
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| 20:26 | <sbalneav> It took me to a porn site.
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| 20:26 | I'm offended
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| 20:28 | <vagrantc> thanks launchpad for killing ltsp6.
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| 20:28 | * vagrantc shakes fists angrily | |
| 20:34 | <sbalneav> hmmm, can you use scp with a crontrol socket?
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| 20:35 | ah
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| 20:35 | -o ControlPath=black
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| 20:35 | blah
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| 20:35 | even
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| 21:01 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: Take a look at the first cut of the "remote" command.
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| 21:02 | It's a long way from perfect, but it copies the remote command, sets up the .local/ltsp dir, encodes the params, etc.
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