IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 July 2015 (all times are UTC)
| 00:00 | <cstk421> not currently no. there is no AD and all users right now have standalone machines with network drives mapped to the file server
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| 00:01 | as i understand it i need to create a file server for the "nfs" or some other format to host the home directories for the users
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| 00:01 | that is so they can customize their desktops i assume. they should not store any data there only on the file server
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| 00:02 | <maldridge> ok, I'm confused, without AD, how are your users going to log into the windows image?
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| 00:03 | <cstk421> as i understood it ltsp was to handle user auth
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| 00:04 | they log into LDM and it logs them in and auto run's the vbox windows vm
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| 00:04 | <maldridge> so ltsp handles auth to get people into a *linux* session, what I'm wanting to know is once the VM boots, how are users logging into that
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| 00:04 | is it just a single shared account?
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| 00:05 | <cstk421> good point i will probably setup autologin scripts per user for "their" instances
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| 00:05 | no its multiple users
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| 00:05 | everyone has their own acct
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| 00:05 | <maldridge> so how do those users get provisioned onto the windows vm?
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| 00:05 | brb
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| 00:05 | <cstk421> i will set that up manually the first time i assume
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| 00:05 | ok
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| 00:10 | <maldridge> ok, so it sounds like you are trying to approximate citrix, is that correct?
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| 00:11 | <cstk421> from my limited exp yes
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| 00:11 | <maldridge> lemme phrase this differnetly, and you tell me if I've got it right
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| 00:11 | <cstk421> i was told this would decrease network overhead significantly since my pxe clients are powerful
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| 00:11 | ok
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| 00:13 | <maldridge> so the idea is that you want to effectivly have windows on your clients, but you want to manage windows from a single master image instead of installing it locally and using a windows domain. To that end you are pxebooting clients, and running windows locally in a VM on the clients which are authenticated through a central point, but then people also have a seperate but somehow linked windows account
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| 00:13 | right so far?
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| 00:13 | <cstk421> sounds about right
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| 00:14 | <maldridge> if you're able to tell me, what are you planning on running in the windows VM, because there may be an easier way to do this
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| 00:14 | and what is your network throughput
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| 00:15 | <cstk421> office , browserbased crm, quickbooks, usual office work. this is a law firm environment.
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| 00:15 | the only other way was to use rdesktop to vm's running on my esxi server but i was told that will not working b/c of the network requriements so this is my alternative
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| 00:15 | 100mb for clients server is gigabit
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| 00:15 | <maldridge> is the backplane gigabit
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| 00:16 | looking at my whiteboard where I've written out this setup, this will be nigh impossible to maintain as currently designed just from the way that virtualbox manages snapshots
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| 00:16 | <cstk421> 3750V2-48PS checking the backplane now
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| 00:16 | <maldridge> fast, plenty fast
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| 00:16 | <cstk421> ● 32-Gbps, wire rate backplane
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| 00:17 | <maldridge> far faster than you'll need here
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| 00:17 | <cstk421> so the ltsp pxe rdesktop to windows vm's then ?
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| 00:17 | my original plan :)
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| 00:17 | <maldridge> so this is my opinion, but if I had to build this out, I would load ltsp but use x2go back to a windows vDesktop cluster
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| 00:17 | I think you can use those features without needing a domain, but it will be complex
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| 00:18 | x2go will help on your network overhead, and as long as the server and clients reside on the same physical network, i.e. minimum speed is 100mbps, you should be fine
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| 00:18 | <cstk421> they are on the same network no issue there
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| 00:18 | x2go is a terminal server isnt it ?
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| 00:18 | why ltsp then ?
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| 00:18 | <maldridge> x2go has to have the client running somewhere
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| 00:19 | so you use ltsp to load a thin linux image on your clients, and use x2go to get back to what needs to be a very powerful windows server
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| 00:19 | <cstk421> copy that
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| 00:19 | x2go uses rdp i assume ? or do i need to have a x2go app on the vm's as well ?
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| 00:19 | <maldridge> I should point out that my method will choke for anything like a youtube video, but you could run a browser locally for that
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| 00:20 | you have an x2go server on the server
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| 00:20 | effectively this solution has no vm anywhere
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| 00:20 | <cstk421> except for the windows vm's you mean right ?
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| 00:20 | <maldridge> no, I'm almost certain that virtualbox snapshots won't work for this
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| 00:21 | <cstk421> sorry i meant the vm's i will have will be on the esxi server i have
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| 00:21 | <maldridge> you'd have a regular windows install with a lot of user accounts who's home folders you redirect to your existing nat
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| 00:21 | yes? I'm not sure where the exsi cluster comes into all this
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| 00:21 | <cstk421> i wil have them pxe boot from ltsp then x2go will run on the pxe client and rdp to the windows vm on the esxi server ?
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| 00:21 | <maldridge> oh, are you running a virtual datacenter?
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| 00:21 | <cstk421> yes
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| 00:21 | i have a r710 virtualization server
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| 00:22 | <maldridge> ok, that makes a lot more sense
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| 00:22 | <cstk421> sorry
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| 00:22 | should have said that
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| 00:22 | <maldridge> np
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| 00:22 | yeah, so you pxeboot up to the point that you can x2go or run local apps for things like web browsing, then your windows vm is running x2go as a monolithic terminal server
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| 00:23 | <maldridge> I have no idea how you'll do authentication with this, but you should be able to easily configure local policies on windows to use remote disks for volumes
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| 00:23 | <cstk421> the second part of that is whats throwing me off. the windows VM which will have all the users's accts will be running this x2go server application. is that right ?
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| 00:23 | <maldridge> user sessions can't live on NFS though, so you'd need to share your user homes on samba
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| 00:24 | yes
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| 00:24 | that is correct
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| 00:24 | <cstk421> and they will be login to the ltsp LDM and then be presented with the x2go login and that should bring them up to their windows session ?
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| 00:24 | so they will have 2 logins unless i can do an autologin from LDM through to their windows acct ?
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| 00:24 | <maldridge> yes, you could probably log them in directly and just use the x2go login, treating ltsp as a transparent platform
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| 00:24 | <cstk421> ah
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| 00:24 | yes
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| 00:24 | good point
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| 00:25 | <maldridge> I think x2go can actually log them into the windows session transparently, but I've never tried that
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| 00:26 | <cstk421> as for the users's home directories why do they have to be on a remote locaiton ?
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| 00:26 | <maldridge> I may have just hit a snag, I don't think x2go can natively run on windows
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| 00:26 | <cstk421> lol
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| 00:26 | <maldridge> I thought you wanted to put your users files on an existing nas?
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| 00:26 | <cstk421> i was told i had to for the previous method
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| 00:26 | shouldnt apply here
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| 00:27 | b/c the vm is on the esxi server plenty of storage for those as well as network shares for company files
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| 00:27 | so the last issue we have is the x2go client
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| 00:27 | <maldridge> x2go server actually
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| 00:28 | x2go client would run fine on linux, but now you have the issue of the terminal sessions on the windows VM, you could use Windows Terminal Services, but of course you need the right license for that
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| 00:28 | <cstk421> how does the windows terminal server solve our issue ? does it replace x2go ?
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| 00:29 | <maldridge> no, you use x2go as the client, but windows terminal server would handle the setup and teardown of virtual user sessions
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| 00:29 | <cstk421> so windows TS would just replace the x2go server part of it
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| 00:29 | <maldridge> yes
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| 00:29 | <cstk421> meaning x2go client on the ltsp pxe client can connect to a windows session via windows terminal services
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| 00:30 | <maldridge> yes, that is correct
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| 00:30 | <cstk421> i think i understand that part
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| 00:30 | perfect
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| 00:30 | do i still have the streaming video issue ?
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| 00:30 | <maldridge> streaming video over the network is expensive no matter how you do it, for streaming the desktop and the apps you mentioned, I don't think you'll have any issues
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| 00:31 | <cstk421> got you. as for usb drives and audio and such i assume they work via this environment ?
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| 00:31 | <maldridge> audio should work without any real issues, but I've never tried to do remote USB so I'm not sure how well that would work
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| 00:32 | <cstk421> kk. ill get started on this now. thanks again.
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| 00:33 | <maldridge> good luck
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| 00:34 | <cstk421> thank you sir
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> maldridge: x2go is for connecting <any os> to <linux server>, not to <windows server> like cstk421 wanted...
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| 06:27 | I really thin that the vbox solution is the best for him, and the next solution would be the w2008 server+xfreerdp one
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| 06:27 | *think
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| 06:28 | <maldridge> alkisg: yeah, I realized the x2go thing a little far in
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| 06:28 | the problem is that vbox snapshots don't work like that
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| 06:28 | <alkisg> maldridge: I've given a workshop 2 weeks ago about that solution
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| 06:29 | It's tested, not just a fantasy...
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| 06:29 | We had one pilot school working like that the whole year
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| 06:29 | And some others will follow this year
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| 06:30 | <maldridge> well, if you have done it then I tip my hat to you, but my understanding of vbox is that it does not perform actual copy on write, and so you wind up with a system where you cannot alter the base image anymore
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| 06:31 | of course I will withhold comments on how he was clearly trying to run a windows domain without actually running a windows domain...
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> The copy on write refers to individual sectors, and the .diff is written on a separate image than the base
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| 06:31 | It's possible to either discard or merge that .diff
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| 06:32 | Here we only allow the teacher to alter the base image, e.g. to install additional software on it, and at that time all the root OS .diff must of course be discarded so that the clients get the new software
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| 06:32 | <maldridge> yeah, that's what I thought happened
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| 06:32 | <alkisg> The users store their data in a vbox shared folder, which maps to /home/username/Documents on their Linux account
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| 06:33 | That's a feature for us, not a drawback
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| 06:33 | <maldridge> as I understood, he wanted to let the users touch the windows snapshots and then keep them through base image changes, for things like "desktop background pictures"
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| 06:33 | yeah, its a great way of doing it, but I don't think that is what he was trying to accomplish
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| 06:33 | <alkisg> Desktop background and other settings are in the user folder
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| 06:34 | The things he was quoting were from our discussion 3-4 days ago...
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| 06:34 | <maldridge> which would reside on the image, unless he used profile redirection
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| 06:34 | <alkisg> That's what he told me then, I don't know if he changed his requirements since then
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| 06:35 | <maldridge> I speak only from my knowledge of windows domains that unless you write some policy, the user's session information is written to a number of places in the home folder, which cannot be copied/moved without windows being aware that you're doing that
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| 06:35 | <alkisg> The user profile can either be in a vbox shared folder, without redirection, or it can be mapped to a different disk, e.g. D:\User, with 1 registry edit
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| 06:35 | <maldridge> eh, ideally you'd use the local policy editor so that it is done cleanly
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| 06:36 | <alkisg> You can also use the roaming profile option if you like, again with the vbox shared folder
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| 06:36 | The registry profile redirection works in all windows versions, while the local policy editors one in some of them
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| 06:36 | s/one/only/
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| 06:37 | <maldridge> s/all windows versions/all versions prior to windows 10/
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| 06:37 | <alkisg> Is there an UI to change the user home folder in windows home edition?
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| 06:38 | Why do you say "prior to windows 10"? Windows no longer uses the profile path from the registry?
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| 06:39 | <maldridge> granted its still in an RC stage, but when I tried 10 on a few non-domain hosts, tons of registry stuff broke, lots of stuff in the user profile portion
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| 06:39 | <alkisg> I think we're not speaking of the same method
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| 06:40 | <maldridge> I did not spend time troubleshooting that issue, but I suspect that a base key has been renamed
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| 06:40 | <alkisg> When you redirect the windows /home path in the registry, from C:\Users to D:\Users, all new users are created there
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| 06:40 | <maldridge> no, we are not
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| 06:40 | I'm talking about fully moving all windows user session data
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| 06:40 | <alkisg> So if you create a new user named "user", it goes in D:\Users\User
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| 06:40 | <maldridge> yes, but with your method, some information about that user will still reside on the C: drive
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| 06:40 | <alkisg> While C:\Users\Olduser and C:\Users\All Users remain in place
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| 06:40 | No, none at all
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| 06:41 | Completely all the account data is in D:
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| 06:41 | That method works from windows nt and up
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| 06:41 | Note that I'm usually talking about stuff that I've tested, not from my head
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| 06:42 | When I'm assuming things, I usually say that out loud, that "I think..."
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| 06:42 | maldridge: use google translate on that: http://alkisg.mysch.gr/steki/index.php?topic=4090.0
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| 06:43 | <maldridge> I do not dispute that that works as you have stated it, but I question if it works correctly in a managed domain
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| 06:43 | <alkisg> The VM solution is not related to domains
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| 06:43 | You can't have the same SID for many computers/users in the same domain
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| 06:43 | In this solution you only have 1 VM and 1 user for any number of real computers and users
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| 06:44 | <maldridge> as much as I would like to continue this most interesting discussion, I must return to repairing a CUPS server that refuses to enable a doc-center; 'later
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| 06:45 | <alkisg> bb
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| 06:45 | * alkisg started completing his taxes :) | |
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| 07:31 | <highvoltage> hehe @ "started completing"
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| 07:33 | <alkisg> ...hehe, well actually it's the 4th day with those@#()*&#(* tax forms :)
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| 07:43 | <highvoltage> In 2009 my tax consultant dissappeared with all my paperwork, took me 6 years to sort out those taxes :(
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| 07:52 | <alkisg> Ouch :-/
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| 08:01 | <vmlintu> Luckily the tax office prefills all the papers, so there's nothing to do..
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> !ServerAlias
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| 16:08 | <ltsp`> Error: "ServerAlias" is not a valid command.
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> !serveralias
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| 16:08 | <ltsp`> Error: "serveralias" is not a valid command.
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> !cups
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| 16:08 | <ltsp`> cups: With thin clients running on a Ubuntu 12.04 server, you may run into CUPS limiting the amount of simultaneous connections from one host. Since all connections originate from the same host (the server), you'll have to raise MaxClients and MaxClientsPerHost. See: http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/ref-cupsd-conf.html
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> !cups-
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| 16:08 | <ltsp`> I do not know about 'cups-', but I do know about these similar topics: 'cups'
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| 16:09 | <elias_a> alkisg: How much does a fibre optic internet cost in Greece?
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| 16:09 | <alkisg> No idea!
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| 16:10 | We do have those in some schools, but I never had to bother with the budget there...
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| 16:10 | <elias_a> alkisg: I have this idea of founding a sort of place where you could go abroad to a nice place to do our work at.
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| 16:11 | Greece would be a nice place to go to work in spring or autumn....
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| 16:11 | * alkisg loves remotely :) | |
| 16:11 | <alkisg> Why not summer? Too many tourists?
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| 16:11 | <elias_a> Yep, and too warm for scandinavians :)
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| 16:12 | <elias_a> And I have this thought of using local services and facilities _after_ the turist season (or before).
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> Haha, yup you could go swimming in Spring here..
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| 16:12 | <elias_a> That's the best deal for all parties.
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| 16:13 | alkisg: I just sailed a small sailing boat from Sweden to Finland. Guess what the water temperature was?
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> If you want the opposite, someone living in Greece and working remotely, ping me :D
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| 16:13 | The temperature in Sweden?
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| 16:14 | Or in Greece?
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| 16:14 | <elias_a> alkisg: Seawater in Baltic sea between Sweden and Finland.
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> No idea, here it would be around 20° ?
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| 16:15 | <elias_a> alkisg: Would you like to be in a group that loosely plans this kind of working farm?
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| 16:15 | alkisg: 16 Celsius. :D
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| 16:15 | alkisg: It has been a cool summer. :)
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> Cool, I imagined it would be lower there
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| 16:16 | <elias_a> alkisg: No storms. The surface is warm. If gets cooled when storms mix the surface.
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> I don't know how I could help from here, but sure, if there's something I can do, ping me
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| 16:17 | <elias_a> alkisg: Ok. Thanks.
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| 16:19 | alkisg: Given the events lately I also have a strong need to do something to help you guys out even a little. A bunch of talkative, outgoing nerds (are there such animals) would probably do no harm. ;-)
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| 16:20 | * alkisg is quite good in coding but not so much in organizing teams and activities | |
| 16:22 | <alkisg> !forget cups
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| 16:22 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 16:22 | <elias_a> alkisg: I'll do the organizing. Don't worry! :)
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !learn cups as `Recent cups versions have issues with the hostname, either set "ServerAlias server" in <server>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf, or "CUPS_SERVER=server-hostname" in lts.conf and "server-hostname <server-ip>" in /etc/hosts.ltsp`
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| 16:23 | <ltsp`> The operation succeeded.
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> !cups
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| 16:23 | <ltsp`> cups: Recent cups versions have issues with the hostname, either set "ServerAlias server" in <server>/etc/cups/cupsd.conf, or "CUPS_SERVER=server-hostname" in lts.conf and "server-hostname <server-ip>" in /etc/hosts.ltsp
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| 22:32 | <Emmanuel> Hi
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| 22:32 | question
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| 22:34 | I have 14.04 edubuntu out of the box (ltsp) But I have a problem loading tftp in pxe thin terminals "PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout"
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| 22:36 | i tried the live ltsp from the livecd and it works,
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