IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 26 May 2011 (all times are UTC)
| 00:17 | markit (~marco@151.8.82.210) joined #ltsp. | |
| 00:20 | <markit> hi, kubuntu 11.04, I'm at work and away from my updated notes about ltsp setup. I use dnsmasq, is the "dhcp-option=17,/opt/ltsp/i386 " line needed? The comment above in the only dnsmasq.conf file I've is "rootpath option for NFS", but kubuntu uses NBD
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| 00:32 | <muppis> Hmm.. I think not.
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| 00:35 | markit, I use this kind of dnsmasq: http://pastebin.com/HVPvCMRF
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| 00:36 | <markit> muppis: thanks
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| 00:36 | <muppis> It is quite simple as is it used in dd-wrt based router and other dhcp settings is handled elsewhere.
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| 02:18 | <Hyperbyte> Hey Da-Geek, alkisg, muppis, andygraybeal, *. :-)
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| 02:23 | <Gnoze5> good morning
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| 02:46 | <alkisg> Good ...noon
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| 02:46 | <Hyperbyte> Good mornoon. :)
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| 02:47 | <markit> hi alkisg :)
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| 02:53 | <muppis> Good noon. :)
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| 03:04 | <Da-Geek> Hyperbyte, ty for using Da-Geek that time, now I dont feel like im in trouble like last time
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| 03:04 | <Hyperbyte> HI GAVIN
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| 03:04 | :D
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| 03:05 | Hehe, j/k. ;-)
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| 03:05 | <Da-Geek> lol
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| 03:34 | <Hyperbyte> Trixboxer. :)
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| 03:34 | <Trixboxer> o/ Hyperbyte
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| 04:40 | <markit> mmm I've a minimal setup of ltsp just to run rdesktop against a M$server
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| 04:40 | one thin client does not boot because "features not present n the cpu: cx8 cmov"
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| 04:40 | I've chrooted, but aptitude search linux-image does not show a "low power " kernel available
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| 04:41 | any tip?
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| 04:41 | in addition, a different client boots fine, but does not rdesktop to the M$ server, just a black screen and the cursor.. I've rdesktop in the chroot AND in the "host" (ltsp server)
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| 04:41 | am I missing something?
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| 04:45 | alkisg (~alkisg@ubuntu/member/alkisg) joined #ltsp. | |
| 04:48 | <markit> and what creen_xx shoud I use?
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| 04:48 | <alkisg> markit: for the cmov instruction, use a 10.04 chroot, it's the last ubuntu version that supports non-i686 CPUs
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| 04:49 | <markit> alkisg: funny, I've upgraded to 11.04 to have a better support for newer hardware
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| 04:49 | <alkisg> You have old hardware though :D
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| 04:49 | <markit> alkisg: do you remember what screen_xx should I use for rdesktop? I've used debian and I know there are differences with ubuntu
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| 04:49 | <muppis> markit, 02
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| 04:49 | <markit> I've at the moment
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| 04:50 | <alkisg> Which ever you want, except 01
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| 04:50 | <markit> SCREEN_07 = ldm
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| 04:50 | SCREEN_08 = rdesktop -f -k it 192.168.1.5
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| 04:50 | but after boot I get a black screen and the mouse pointer
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| 04:51 | <Hyperbyte> I've asked this in #ubuntu as well, but I'm dropping it here too... everytime I reboot a thin client, the default sound card input gets reset to "Analog Input". I need to use "Rear Microphone" by default though. Anyone know how I can set this automatically via command line?
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| 04:51 | The 'automatically' part I got covered, but how to set this via command line is puzzling me.
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> Command line? Not lts.conf?
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| 04:51 | <Hyperbyte> Can I set it in lts.conf?
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| 04:51 | <alkisg> Get a root shell on the client, and play with "amixer"
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| 04:51 | * Hyperbyte bangs head against rock | |
| 04:51 | <alkisg> Once you get it working with amixer, you can then do it with lts.conf
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| 04:52 | <muppis> Hyperbyte, concrete wall is too soft?
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| 04:52 | <Hyperbyte> muppis, well actually I lied. I don't have any rocks in my office.
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| 04:52 | <alkisg> When you find one, please put it to youtube, it'll be helpful to other #ltsp-ers :D
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| 04:52 | <Hyperbyte> I wanted to type 'desk', but I thought 'rock' would be good for dramatic effect. Either way, I'm lying, because I didn't really bang my head on anything. Don't tell alkisg though.
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| 04:53 | <muppis> Hyperbyte, I've been literally banging my head to wall because of MS.
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| 04:54 | <Hyperbyte> muppis, do tell.
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| 04:54 | <alkisg> markit: first verify that that command works if you issue it from within a gnome session
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| 04:54 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, isn't amixer for alsa instead of pulseaudio?>
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| 04:55 | man says it is.
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| 04:55 | Which explains why it says "Mixer attach default error: no such file or directory" ?
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| 04:55 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: pulseaudio uses alsa as the backend, afaik
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| 04:55 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, I think I need to do it via pactl
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| 04:55 | I can set volume that way.
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> LTSP uses amixer to initialize the card, the volume etc
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| 04:56 | And it works fine
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| 04:56 | <Hyperbyte> mhm
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| 04:56 | <alkisg> It also allows to set on-off controls like the headphone jack etc
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| 04:57 | The added benefit is that whatever you can do with amixer, you can also do with lts.conf VOLUME* variables
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| 05:00 | <mgariepy> good morning everyone
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| 05:02 | <alkisg> Hi mgariepy
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| 05:04 | <mgariepy> how do you do?
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| 05:10 | <markit> alkisg: can't verify the gnome session works, is not really a ltsp "server", I've not installed the graphical part on the server, it only has to rdesktop to M$crapos
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| 05:11 | <alkisg> markit: didn't you say you have SCREEN_07=ldm? Just login to an xterm session from ldm
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| 05:12 | Or try it from a non-ltsp workstation
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| 05:12 | <markit> previous ltsp with debian works fine
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| 05:13 | since new hardware is not supported, I've created a new virtual machine with natty and tried to reconfigure
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| 05:14 | I'm searching the ubuntu ltsp wiki for rdesktop, but can't find samples for lts.conf, not google is providing trustable info
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| 05:14 | in any case, I've to go back to older VM, collegues are coming back in office :)
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| 05:15 | where is the screen_xx stuff explained? to know that _01 is not available, and what are those _xx numbers for? (1-6 text, 7-? graphic?)
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| 05:18 | there is something here http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man5/lts.conf.5.html
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| 05:19 | <alkisg> markit: see this file for an rdesktop example: /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen.d/rdesktop
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| 05:19 | But for example, you might be missing NATting on the server
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| 05:19 | So getting an xterm and trying it locally is the most easy way to solve your problem
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| 05:21 | <markit> alkisg: mm why natting on the server? we are on the same subnet of M$server
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| 05:21 | <alkisg> Then you wouldn't need nat, i'm just saying that the best thing is to try locally, and see why it fails, instead of searching the web
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| 05:21 | <markit> alkisg: just got puzzled by the fact that can't find updated info on the web
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| 05:22 | <alkisg> Good sources are `man lts.conf`, the .pdf on the /topic, the ubuntu-ltsp wiki, and this channel's logs
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| 05:22 | If some documentation is missing, someone has to write it :)
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| 05:23 | <markit> I'm so confused... and I'm often mixing information from my debian install, ubuntu one, old notes, uncertain web info, etc...
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| 05:24 | usually you are my only trustable source of info
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| 05:55 | Nick change: mistik1_ -> mistik1 | |
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| 06:05 | <Gnoze5> gentlemen
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| 06:21 | <Gnoze5> hm
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| 06:22 | why are these mini-itx cases so expensive?
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| 07:27 | <Roasted> hi
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| 07:28 | <Hyperbyte> Yo!
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| 07:28 | <Roasted> It seems as if I haven't been to LTSP in quite some time.
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| 07:29 | I think that's partially due to the fact the damn thing never breaks on me.
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| 07:29 | I have yet to touch any of the 3 servers I deployed. Can you guys stop being so awesome?
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| 07:30 | <Hyperbyte> Hah
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| 07:30 | I'm still in the process of getting a 100% succesful deployment
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| 07:30 | <Roasted> how big of an environment are you setting up?
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| 07:31 | <Hyperbyte> Not that big.
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| 07:31 | <Roasted> What's keeping you back from 100%?
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| 07:31 | <Hyperbyte> Softphone.
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| 07:31 | But I figured out today where I was going wrong with that.
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| 07:32 | So you know, I can't yet say it's saving me lots of time on system administration (although I'm sure we'll get to that point soon)
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| 07:32 | I can however safely say LTSPROCKS. :)
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| 07:32 | <Roasted> Wait... I thought you meant LTSP was holding you back from 100%
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| 07:32 | <Hyperbyte> No, LTSP is performing fine
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| 07:32 | <Roasted> ahh, good good
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| 07:32 | <Hyperbyte> The whole Linux environment it brings along has created some bumps.
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| 07:32 | <Roasted> yeah I only had that time issue a while back
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| 07:33 | but the devs here helped me super quick with getting a fix, and filed it upstream to get an official fix
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| 07:33 | <Hyperbyte> But that is to be expected with every new environment, be it Linux or Windows 7.
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| 07:33 | I needed to upgrade from Windows XP workstations and I thought an LTSP environment would be the best choice, because of the ability to centralize all sysadmin tasks.
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| 07:34 | <Roasted> yeah.
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| 07:34 | I like being able to just SSH into the server and apt-get a program that they might need.
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| 07:34 | <Hyperbyte> Yeah
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| 07:34 | <Roasted> have you ever used puppet?
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| 07:56 | <Hyperbyte> Puppet? Can't say that I have.
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| 08:06 | <Roasted> Hyperbyte, supposedly it's a solid linux management application, similar to casper for mac. I read the systems check in every so often to the puppet server and you can issue commands for them to run once they check in.
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| 08:10 | <Gnoze5> puppet is cool
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| 08:10 | lol
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| 08:12 | are there any companies selling services using ltsp?
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| 08:28 | <veloutin> Gnoze5: what scale of deployment?
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| 08:29 | <tastle73> I got a tough problem
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| 08:29 | <Gnoze5> well
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| 08:30 | any scale really
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| 08:30 | im designing two solutions atm
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| 08:30 | both for 20 users each
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| 08:30 | they are our customers
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| 08:30 | using windows + AD atm
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| 08:31 | the whole, why are you paying for licenses when you can have it free argument convinced them
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| 08:33 | <highvoltage> Gnoze5: revolution linux (company that mgariepy, veloutin and myself works for) sells ltsp related services, http://revolutionlinux.com
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| 08:34 | <veloutin> although 20 users might be a bit smallish
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| 08:34 | <highvoltage> Gnoze5: and there are others too, but obviously I'm kind of biased :)
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| 08:36 | depends what your problem is. #ltsp is generally very helpful already, at least in my experience
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| 08:36 | <Gnoze5> i know
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| 08:36 | what im thinking of doing
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| 08:36 | is making this something we sell as a service as well
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| 08:36 | especially to non profits
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| 08:36 | we work with non profits
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| 08:36 | and are partly owned by a very big non profit as well
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| 08:37 | and this makes a lot of sense
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| 08:37 | im sick of MS and friends
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| 08:37 | useless complex solutions
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| 08:40 | <Gnoze5> we live nowhere near you so dont worry
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| 08:40 | :P
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| 08:41 | <veloutin> you can still check us out, we might be able to help
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| 08:41 | lunch time here
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| 08:42 | <Gnoze5> yes
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| 08:42 | im checking you out
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| 08:48 | <Gnoze5> veloutin when you use xen you run LTSP on a PVed linux vm?
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| 08:50 | <tastle73> on ltsp-4.2 I used to have a GDM post login script that rsync a user's home directory from a remote server to the local ltsp server.
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| 08:50 | now I'm trying to duplicate this in ltsp5 and I can't make it work
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| 08:52 | <tastle73> i tried putting it in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/rc.d but it is not at all having the same effect
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| 08:58 | <alkisg> Why not put it to /etc/xdg/autostart so that it takes effect no matter how the user logs in?
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| 09:24 | <fruza> Hi, anybody alive out there ?
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| 09:25 | <alkisg> It's usually best to directly ask your question
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| 09:25 | <Gadi> only the out-of-work zombies left over from the Rapture
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| 09:25 | oh, no wait
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| 09:25 | :)
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| 09:30 | <Gnoze5> im a zombie
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| 09:30 | but i can still think
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| 09:30 | most of the times..
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| 09:36 | <robehend1> hey guys. what is the command to check which port my images are being exported with in NBD again?
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| 09:40 | <tastle73> alkisg were you talking to me?
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> tastle73: yup
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| 09:41 | robehend1: cat /etc/inetd.conf
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| 09:41 | <robehend1> alkisg: Thanks! i knew it was somewhere ;)
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| 09:44 | <fruza> Has anybody implemented any boot splash for thin clients with debian squeeze ??
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| 09:50 | <Gnoze5> so
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| 09:51 | i booted 20 vms on my ltsp server
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| 09:51 | wanted to do some stress tests
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| 09:51 | any ideas for routines i can run on the vms?
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> Youtube :P
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| 09:52 | <Gnoze5> ...
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> There's also the "stress" command
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| 09:52 | <Gnoze5> im going to have flash local..
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| 10:00 | what i mean ios how can i simulate a users routine
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| 10:01 | <veloutin> youtube is pretty good for that heh
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| 10:02 | <highvoltage> Gnoze5: cool! (on making a service for non-profits)
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| 10:02 | <Gnoze5> but isnt flash something prohibitive to be used on server side?
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| 10:02 | highvoltage heh thanks! ill keep you posted
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| 10:02 | <veloutin> we usually run firefox as a local app because it eats so much resources on the server
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| 10:02 | <Gnoze5> veloutin my idea exactly
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| 10:03 | anyone can i assume that 1 toubue video is higher stress on the server than the user using word excel browsing etc?
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| 10:03 | *anyway
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| 10:03 | *youtube
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| 10:03 | <veloutin> I think so
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| 10:03 | flash likes hogging a whole cpu
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| 10:03 | <Gnoze5> highvoltage you cant imagine how much hardware i see ngos throwing away that would be perfect thing clients...
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| 10:05 | *thin
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| 10:05 | what the hell is wrong with my keyboard lol
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| 10:06 | veloutin yesterday we were testing google video chat
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| 10:06 | it actually worked
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| 10:35 | <highvoltage> Gnoze5: yeah, lots of good hardware gets trashed
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| 10:42 | <Gnoze5> i myself have refused a lot of HW
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| 10:42 | because it has no value in windows environments
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| 10:46 | <highvoltage> just be careful not to receive bad hardware, I've seen some organisations say "yay free hardware" and accepted a lot of trash that they ended up having to dispose of
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| 11:26 | <Gnoze5> hm im trying ltsp on 11.04
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| 11:26 | everything seems slower
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| 11:26 | than 10.10
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| 11:29 | ubuntu that is
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| 11:29 | maybe i should try 10.04
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| 11:29 | <mgariepy> 11.04 have some issue with DRI
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| 11:54 | <Lns> Gnoze5, I recommend trying a few different versions/distros and see which one suits your needs best
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| 11:57 | <Hyperbyte> mgariepy, what's DRI?
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| 11:59 | <mgariepy> direct rendering stuff for X
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| 12:03 | <alkisg> Lns: have you deployed ltsp with debian anywhere?
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| 12:20 | <alkisg> Big changes in the horizon... http://wiki.debian.org/systemd, http://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/RunDirectory, not to mention unity and wayland...
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| 12:21 | <vagrantc> the RunDirectory thing totally breaks LTSP :(
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| 12:21 | i mean, it'll be fixable ... but i haven't had time to look at it
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| 12:21 | at least, i assume it'll be fixable :)
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| 12:22 | <alkisg> Being new to linux, I wonder if with all the changes, distros get closer to each other, or drift further apart...
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| 12:22 | <vagrantc> some of both, of course :)
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> "Note that a bigger issue that /run goes a long way to solving is having a completely read-only root filesystem." ==> that sounds good for LTSP in the long run
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> right
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| 12:26 | will make it trickier to have a minimally patched backport, though...
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| 12:27 | <highvoltage> alkisg: many of the changes provide opportunities for things to move closer together, but unfortunately it doesn't always work out like that (see gnome vs unity, etc)
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| 12:27 | <alkisg> Hehe I hope they all fight too much about gnome and give up and use qt instead, much cleaner programming interface :P
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| 12:29 | * alkisg sometimes wonders how distros would be if developers' efforts were more coordinated... | |
| 12:30 | <vagrantc> my guess is the /var/run and /var/lock becoming symlinks to /run/* is what's breaking LTSP on debian
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| 12:31 | <alkisg> Why would that break it?
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| 12:32 | * alkisg also didn't understand how will the /var/run/* directories be created on each boot | |
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| 12:37 | <vagrantc> i think bind-mounting on top of symlinks borks
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| 12:38 | so the bind-mounts fail, and then everything else fails too
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| 12:38 | <alkisg> If /var/ is ephemeral, how will the initscript know that dnsmasq needs a /run/dnsmasq dir owned by the dnsmasq user?
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| 12:39 | The packages will create their dirs to /var/run even after the transitional period?
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| 12:39 | *if /run/ is ephemeral...
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| 12:40 | Unless /var/dirs will actually be preserved across boots
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| 12:41 | */run/dirs, dammit :)
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| 12:42 | <vagrantc> packages are supposed to ensure that /var/run/* is created by the appropriate init script
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| 12:42 | or whatever
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| 12:42 | been debian policy for at least two releases, now
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> Ty, didn't know that
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| 12:43 | * alkisg makes a note to make sch-scripts policy compliant :D | |
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| 12:56 | ||
| 12:59 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg: I have tomorrow off, to compensate for all the extra hours I had to put it in to fix Fedora LTSP (read: to install Edubuntu)
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| 13:00 | Now, the actually message here is: me and my bosses finally feel LTSP (and more importantly, the softphone inside it) is functioning good enough to be left alone for 1 day. :)
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| 13:00 | <Hyperbyte> I think I've never had this many problems with the VoIP telephony all at once.
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| 13:02 | At the same I upgraded to Edubuntu, our VoIP provided decided to change some codec settings, which made our softphones incompatible with their servers. Of course they didn't tell me, and I spent hours debugging the softphone, rather than actually checking the provider side.
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| 13:02 | Meanwhile the new headsets I bought were defective. How could you go wrong with a headset with two simple jack plugs you wonder... no idea, but apparently Creative manages.
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| 13:03 | But I'm finally convinced it's going to work flawless tomorrow. :)
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| 13:04 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: wow, sounds like 5 nightmares in a row
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| 13:04 | Hope noone calls you tomorrow :)
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| 13:12 | <Hyperbyte> Well, I said I wanted a call anyways. Status update if you will. :)
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| 13:12 | But I hope it's not -that- call, no. :)
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| 13:14 | Oh, and my new electric scooter drives like a beauty. Goes from 0 to 30 in a little under 4 seconds.
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| 14:52 | <Gnoze5> Lns we are going to try 10.04 tnight
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| 14:52 | the experience with 11.04 was not great at all
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| 14:59 | <Gnoze5> Hyperbyte 30mph?
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| 15:27 | <Lns> alkisg + vagrantc: (yeah I know you're not online) regarding systemd, from the intro (and I know I'm not considering all of the core differences regarding LTSP but hopefully this helps in some respects): "...implements an elaborate transactional dependency-based service control logic. It can work as a drop-in replacement for sysvinit." (from http://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Introduction )
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| 15:36 | <Gnoze5> Lns you do realize once they read it they will be online...
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| 15:38 | <Lns> Gnoze5, lemme know how 10.04 hams out for ya.. what happened w/11.04?
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| 15:41 | <Gnoze5> random errors
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| 15:41 | it was quite slow
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| 15:41 | i hung quite a bit
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| 15:42 | *it
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| 15:42 | <Lns> what kind of client hardware you using? how many clients?
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| 15:42 | <Gnoze5> different stuff
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| 15:42 | <Lns> now that was w/using unity?
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| 15:42 | <Gnoze5> i have an hp high end thin client
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| 15:42 | a few laptops
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| 15:42 | and i have virtualization test server
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| 15:43 | where i spawn vms
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| 15:43 | like 10 at a time
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| 15:43 | i mean
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| 15:43 | i go slowly
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| 15:43 | <Lns> right on
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| 15:43 | <Gnoze5> and then i try boot storm
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| 15:43 | <Lns> have you tried out debian or any other dist also?
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| 15:43 | <Gnoze5> not yet
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| 15:45 | Lns what do you use?
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| 15:45 | <Lns> Debian 6.0
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| 15:46 | but I use whatever fits best for the scenario
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| 15:46 | <Gnoze5> hm
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| 15:46 | what exactly are the factors that make you use one or the other?
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| 15:48 | <Lns> Well, for me Debian is better than Ubuntu because it changes less. I don't have to really worry about upgrading a major release because, for the most part, things are just taken care of.
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| 15:48 | <Gnoze5> hm
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| 15:48 | but when you are deploying
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| 15:49 | and pick a release
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| 15:49 | you update it?
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| 15:50 | my instinct tells me to avoid messing with software and dependencies especially if something is "stable"
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| 15:50 | <Lns> I don't get what you mean
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| 15:50 | do I update it after i install from CD? Of course
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| 15:51 | update the chroot too obviously
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| 15:51 | <Gnoze5> not that
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| 15:51 | thjat makes perfect sense
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| 15:51 | i mean
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| 15:51 | once you feel its stable
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| 15:51 | and everything is working fine
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| 15:51 | <Lns> sure
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| 15:51 | updates are a fact of life
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| 15:51 | <Gnoze5> i agree
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| 15:51 | but im very careful with updastes
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| 15:52 | maybe its a windows environment bad habbit..
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| 15:52 | lol
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| 15:52 | <Lns> probably =p
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| 15:52 | <Gnoze5> our BSD guy on the other hand
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| 15:52 | is nuts
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| 15:52 | everything has to be bleeding edge
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| 15:52 | <Lns> I've never had issues with debian updates, even through major release updates.. like i said it pretty much just works
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| 15:52 | (at least with stable/testing trees)
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| 15:53 | well bleeding edge BSD is like...still way stable =p
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| 15:54 | <Gnoze5> ok in your honour next distro trial will be Debian
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| 15:54 | <Lns> lol, in my honour?
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| 15:55 | * Lns bows humbly | |
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| 15:57 | <Lns> Gnoze5, what's your environment specifically?
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| 16:04 | <Gnoze5> we already have two different deployments in line
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| 16:04 | they are similar though
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| 16:10 | <Gnoze5> I killed my gateway lol... forgot I was on it.
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| 17:11 | <Gnoze5> why is LDM_THEME not documented on the manpages for ubuntu?
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| 17:15 | <vagrantc> because someone didn't think to document it (in time)
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| 17:15 | Gnoze5: but if you file a bug report, you can help contribute to it getting fixed!
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| 17:15 | maybe even get your name in lights, or at least a changelog
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| 17:16 | <Gnoze5> lol getting my name anywhere is not something that attracts me
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| 17:16 | anyway
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| 17:16 | where should i file the bug report?
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| 17:16 | ubuntu directly?
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| 17:17 | and is this really a bug..
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| 17:17 | hm
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| 18:12 | <Gnoze5> hm
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| 18:12 | just tried firefox and flash as local on 10.10
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| 18:12 | firefox opens locally great but flash doesnt seem to work
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| 18:12 | videos wond load
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| 18:12 | <Lns> ah, flash.
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| 18:15 | <Gnoze5> lol
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| 18:15 | most of them its
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| 18:15 | users cant justify using flash in a work environment
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| 18:16 | <Lns> it comes up almost everywhere..and is a real pita..but if you get it working decently w/localapps, you should be fine
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| 18:17 | the thing that sucks is that flash is such a resource hog it's hard to get inexpensive, low-power thin clients that can handle a fullscreen YT video without you thinking you're watching an 1800's era flipbook jukebox
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| 18:19 | <Gnoze5> hm
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| 00:00 | --- Fri May 27 2011 | |