IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 23 January 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 14:28 | <nubae_> highvoltage, ping
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| 14:29 | <highvoltage> nubae_: pong
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| 14:29 | <nubae_> cool, you're there
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| 14:29 | <yalu> hi people, one question, why doens't ltsp on ubuntu support amd geode cpu's? is there some way to make them work anyway?
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| 14:30 | <nubae_> here's the thing... the school I was telling u about is interested in getting some outside ltsp maintenance
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| 14:31 | right now, Im around so can help them in most cases, but I plan to go to Germany/Austria or wherever other than Southern Spain :p
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| 14:31 | <highvoltage> nubae_: ok, are you still in contact with Bruno?
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| 14:31 | <nubae_> anyway, right now, I've set almost all the clients as fat, and its made a real difference i terms of stability
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| 14:32 | highvoltage, not really, I didn't get much feedback
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| 14:32 | <highvoltage> nubae_: can you do me a favour and email him with that info and CC me?
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| 14:32 | <nubae_> but to the point, before handing off to u guys
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| 14:32 | yes I can do that of course
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| 14:32 | but just a sec
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| 14:32 | <highvoltage> ok
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| 14:33 | <nubae_> they say they absolutely require photoshop, I showed them gimpshop, but the art teacher has been somewhat brainwashed into photoshop
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| 14:34 | which seems fine since photoshop 7 is platinum under wine
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| 14:34 | similar situation with the computer teacher who insists ms office must be used and libre office isn't as good
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| 14:34 | again ms office2002 (XP) is also platinuum on wine
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| 14:35 | <highvoltage> RLNX supports supported wine apps
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| 14:35 | <nubae_> so my idea is, give them that option within the fat clients
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| 14:35 | <highvoltage> ms office is really a waste, but if they really want it, bleh :)
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| 14:35 | <nubae_> my thoughts exactly
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| 14:36 | <nubae_> let them fight it out amongst themselves, I will give them a very old version (2002) with a perfect libre office filled with clipart and a very optimised office suite
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| 14:36 | <highvoltage> :)
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| 14:36 | <nubae_> but... these teachers are like institutionalised people
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| 14:37 | they dont really want to change their ways
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| 14:37 | theyre already really unhappy using linux
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| 14:37 | <stgraber> yalu: Ubuntu's kernel and userspace no longer supports these CPUs. "With 10.10 we have also dropped support for i586 and lower processors, as well as i686 processors without cmov support. "
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| 14:37 | <nubae_> this should be a compromise
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| 14:38 | so question... do u see any problems with me installing wine and said programs inside the fatclients?
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| 14:38 | and do I have to do it per user?
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| 14:39 | <nubae_> Basically, from Feb/March on, I'd love it if u guys can support the school... its growing fast, they now have 200 students
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| 14:39 | and the inhouse support dude is mostly a hardware guy
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| 14:39 | <highvoltage> nubae_: Well, I can pretty much gaurantee you that RLNX will want to re-integrate it under the usual ways we do it (package things, integrate it with bcfg2)
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| 14:40 | nubae_: that way the support team will now exactly where things arre configured and how.
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| 14:40 | <nubae_> which I think works fine with what you guys could do
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| 14:40 | ok so u use cfengine
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| 14:40 | interesting
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| 14:40 | <highvoltage> nubae_: so I can't gaurantee that your setup will stay exactly the same after rlnx would integrate it, but I think it's ok that you set it up so long
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| 14:40 | <nubae_> gerat
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| 14:40 | <highvoltage> nubae_: bcfg2, not cfengine :)
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| 14:41 | <nubae_> I know i know
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| 14:41 | not THAT different
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| 14:41 | just interesting u are using cenralised automation
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| 14:41 | u guys have a lot of setups by now then?
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| 14:42 | <highvoltage> "a lot" is a very subjective term :)
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| 14:42 | but yes, far too many setups to keep track of manually
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| 14:42 | a configuration management system is essential
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| 14:42 | <nubae_> cause I was going to do the same using puppet and spacewalk for olpc, but that fell through, non tech heads didnt understand the necessity
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| 14:43 | i agree totally
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| 14:43 | wish it was easier to explain to management though
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| 14:43 | <highvoltage> yep, that's indeed always hard
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| 14:43 | <nubae_> I found an awsome book dont know if u read it, Automation of unix system administraiton I think
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| 14:44 | it focused on cfengine, but was like a manual for using any kind of automation
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| 14:44 | they used examples of RHEL and Debian for various tasks
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| 14:45 | <highvoltage> I feel the same as the author of this blog entry and like his ideas: http://current.workingdirectory.net/posts/2011/puppet-without-masters/
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| 14:45 | <nubae_> ooooh nice, I'll definetly claw my way through that
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| 14:46 | I bought the 2 puppet books that were written, but I just dont think its quite the same
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| 14:46 | puppet somehow seems convoluted, bloated and written without enough logic
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| 14:47 | but its a fashion thing right now, so management says u have to use puppet
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| 14:47 | so we use puppet... stupid
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| 14:47 | anyway, I digress
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| 14:48 | appart from what I stated above... have u heard of VIA based Zaapa clients?
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| 14:48 | they cost 150 euros, and contain pretty serious hardware
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| 14:49 | 2 gigs ram, 160 gigabyte hardrive, C7-M cpu and even hdmi outputs
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| 14:49 | 1920x1080 res
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| 14:49 | but heres the thing... it requires openchrome driver
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| 14:49 | and integrated, it has ubuntu and loads wthout problems
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| 14:50 | but as a fat/thin client ltsp it loads up and has a synching problem....
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| 14:50 | like the screen is out of synch diagonally
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| 14:50 | not sure if Im making sense
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| 14:51 | im just wondering, do i have to compile a special fatclient with closed source via graphics driver?
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| 14:52 | or is there a way around.... if tried almost all the lts.conf settings i can think of, other than loading a specialised X conf
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| 14:55 | these Zaapa clients seem to have been almost made for the many Spanish setups we have down here using Ubuntu... as u probably know, all government and all schools must use opensource software by law in Spain
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| 14:56 | so perhaps, not hundred percent sure, but I think so, these hardware boxes seem to have been made in conjunction with the government
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| 14:57 | highvoltage, http://www.pcactual.com/articulo/laboratorio/analisis/ordenadores/sobremesas/mcede_salon/4947/zaapa_zc-mc7_mini_salon_con_apariencia_disco_multimedia.html
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| 14:59 | it shows 199 euros, but I can go pick them up from the Malaga warehouses for 150 a piece and probably less if more are bought
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| 14:59 | might be interesting for your company
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| 14:59 | closest approximation I've seen of something similar is the Acer Revo, or was it Asus, anyway, that costs 399
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| 15:01 | <highvoltage> nubae_: yeah the main point of that article applies to bcfg2 and cfengine as well
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| 15:02 | nubae_: personally I wouldn't touch anything with a VIA chip
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| 15:06 | <nubae_> i understand u're misgivings... but surely if the thing has been built for working with ubuntu, and I've messed with it for quite some hours
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| 15:07 | <xsl> sorry to jump into the conversation ... what are the thin and fat clients?
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| 15:07 | fat client = alot of localapps?
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| 15:07 | <nubae_> it should work with ltsp, right? OR should I really just give it up on that thing in general
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| 15:08 | and focus on cheaper end laptops with atom or dual core chipsets
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| 15:08 | there are some nice 16 inch screen laptops for 300 euros, seems a good deal seeing one doesnt need to the screen
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| 15:08 | xsl, fatclients are just pure localapps
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| 15:09 | better stated, its like a thin client except everything runs on he local cpu and ram
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| 15:09 | <xsl> is that image served also with nbd ?
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| 15:10 | <nubae_> (almost) and considering the prices of clients these days, there isnt much point in the traditional thin clients unless u just have thousands of them lying around
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| 15:10 | nbd and everythingelse exactly the same as a regular thin client
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| 15:10 | really, its the future of LTSP
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| 15:11 | <xsl> is there a tutorial of all stuff that you can put as localapp? like "howto build fat client"
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| 15:11 | <nubae_> I think actual thin clients will die out within the next couple of years due to pricing and better gui management of the fatclient within the ltsp environment
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| 15:12 | Well, Im actually in the midst of writing up a how to build a fatclient with what most people would want inside it
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| 15:12 | <nubae_> it-ll be on my blog soonish, maybe check tomorrow
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| 15:12 | www.nubae.com
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| 15:13 | <xsl> will do :)
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| 15:13 | im still new to LTSP
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| 15:13 | playing with it for 4 months
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| 15:13 | <nubae_> I-ll include how to install wine with some ms based apps, virtualbox, chrome, firefox, flash, adobe apps, etc
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| 15:13 | stuff most of us really need
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| 15:14 | <xsl> using ubuntu as distro... on my way of making a setup using xubuntu( think xfce will be better and lighter than gnome for thin clients)
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| 15:14 | yes your correct :)
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| 15:14 | <nubae_> there are already many howtos, but non actually have a "this is a regular kinda setup"
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| 15:15 | <xsl> yes and i find some lack of info... like ... how to remote help people on the thin/fat-clients
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| 15:15 | how to pay remote assistance
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| 15:15 | s/pay/give
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| 15:39 | <nubae_> yeah
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| 15:39 | I hope I can give a thorough report
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| 15:44 | <xsl> from my behalf ty in advance :D and i hope i can provide feedback and improvements to the "setup"
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| 16:03 | <knipwim> nubae_: what kind of video card do you have in that zaapa box?
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| 16:04 | i'm asking because i'm also struggling with my chrome9 hc card
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| 16:04 | <nubae_> its an openchrome based one
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| 16:04 | yah, sounds about right
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| 16:04 | <knipwim> it's a dual dvi out card
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| 16:04 | but i can't even get one to work
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| 16:04 | <nubae_> yeah this has an hdmi output and a regular output
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| 16:05 | so probably the same
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| 16:05 | well... like I said above... weirdly, the system was built for ubuntu.... as in ubuntu is the OS that comes standard on this box
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| 16:05 | and that works no problem
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| 16:06 | <knipwim> you still have the xorg.conf from that install?
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| 16:06 | <nubae_> but when I ltsp it... I get the diagonal flickering desynch problem
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| 16:07 | <knipwim> i got an igel ud5 thin client, and they also ship a closed source linux os
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| 16:07 | <knipwim> so i know it should work
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| 16:08 | <nubae_> I didnt go down that route
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| 16:08 | but its probably what I'll do ext
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| 16:08 | next
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| 16:08 | copy the xorg.conf from the ubuntu hd to fatclient chroot
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| 16:08 | and see what happens
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| 16:08 | if I get it to work, I'll do a write up and provide the xorg.conf to those that need it
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| 16:08 | the system is at the school though, so until I get access, cant do much... so will need a couple days
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| 16:08 | rigth
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| 16:08 | its a shame that we cant use the opensource driver though
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| 16:09 | it seemed like VIA really wanted to go that route
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| 16:09 | <knipwim> the original install had the closed source driver?
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| 16:09 | <nubae_> but somewhere along the line (money?) they stopped
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| 16:09 | yes
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| 16:09 | <nubae_> knipwim, at least I think so
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| 16:09 | <knipwim> i checked yesterday, there is still the occasional commit on openchrome
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| 16:09 | <nubae_> I have to take a closer look
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| 16:10 | <knipwim> so, not completely dead
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| 16:10 | <nubae_> yeah in theroy openchrome should work, but latest openchrome didnt work for me
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| 16:12 | <knipwim> same here, using 0.2.904_p952
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| 16:13 | <ken26> how can I lock down the thinclients so users cannot download or delete new apps, etc? Also, how to make all users desktops look the same when logging in?
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| 16:13 | <Nubae> odd... I have one xchat client..... but 2 users, I ghosted the orginal Nubae
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| 16:14 | but nubae_ came back
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| 16:14 | wonder what that is about
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| 16:14 | <xsl> you have sasl auth?
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| 16:14 | <Nubae> ken26, thats done by default
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| 16:14 | <Nubae> if u dont have everyone with sysadmin access
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| 16:16 | <ken26> I have ldap set up so a new thinclient recepient can log in but unless I manually set up a local account, the login fails....hwo to set up etc skel to make home directory, etc
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| 16:17 | As for user desktops being the same....I want to onlt have a couple of ICONS down the left side....firefox and remote desktop.....is that set up on the server ior in the chrooted image?
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| 16:18 | <Nubae> ken26, been a long time since i used ldap, any particular reason u require it?
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| 16:18 | ken26, server if thinclient, chrooted image if fatclient
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| 16:19 | <ken26> can a thinclient be a fat client? I have the diskless ltsp thinclients
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| 16:20 | I am using these thinclients for users spread out throughout a lab many building.... and lab policy is to use ldap for all auth.
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| 16:22 | <Nubae> yes, and they are preferable
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| 16:22 | ldap is a bit of a waste if u are using just unix
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| 16:22 | if u use windows then ok
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| 16:22 | but otherwise u are creating a headache for yourself
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| 16:28 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 16:36 | <xsl> Nubae: in your opinion whats the most stable distro to use in LTSP ? kinda like out-of-the-box setup
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| 16:41 | <Nubae> ubuntu and debian without a doubt
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| 16:41 | debian chooses nfs as a base and ubuntu nbd, but other than that, they are highly similiar
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| 16:42 | Either that, or.... if u are going for real long term, and dont want to uprade every couple years Red Hat Enterprise
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| 16:42 | or Novell Suse Enterprise
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| 16:43 | Suse has pretty nice gui based controls, but in my opinion, LTSP without the terminal is a death trap
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| 16:44 | as for nicest distro, I can't get enough of pinguyOS
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| 16:45 | somehow a really small amount of people managed to create a truly awsome distro
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| 16:47 | <xsl> nice :)
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| 16:47 | ty for your opinion
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| 18:36 | <yalu> stgraber: turns out I'm running Natty, which is 11.04 I believe, and I'm running it on a Geode that *has* the cmov instruction :-)))
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| 19:41 | <Nubae> So alkisg are u saying its easier to use the bvox approach to using wine or crossover?
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| 19:41 | Crossover worked great on thin clients
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| 19:42 | <alkisg> I haven't used crossover, I think they support multi-user installations
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| 19:42 | <Nubae> couldnt I make specialised crossover fatclient?
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| 19:42 | they do
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| 19:42 | <alkisg> If you're looking for a portable app, which doesn't require installation, it's easy with stock wine
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| 19:42 | <Nubae> and multi flask/container
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| 19:43 | I need photoshop 7 and msoffice 2002 since they are platinum according to site
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| 19:43 | <alkisg> Otherwise manual playing with groups+dynamic registry changes would be necessary... if you want to go to all this length, you can check the channel logs, we've talked about it,
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| 19:43 | And of course you can always install per user
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| 19:43 | <Nubae> with crossover I can run different instances of wine without it being too much of a problem
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| 19:44 | well, thats not the end of the world since its the teachers that want this crap
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| 19:44 | the students dont need it
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| 19:44 | <alkisg> There are also 2 linux apps (paid) which are photoshop like
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| 19:45 | <Nubae> that wont cut it
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| 19:45 | these are isntitutionalised bovine like creatures
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| 19:46 | if it doesnt look and smell exactly like photoshop they'll complain without even trying
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| 19:46 | no point in trying to reason with creatures like that
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| 19:47 | u have more luck talking to your labrador
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| 19:47 | if u know what I mean :p
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| 19:50 | If u dont mind me asking, what was the outcome of the wine alone installs within a fatclient for multiuser
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| 19:50 | did it eventually work?
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| 19:50 | <alkisg> I've only tried portable wine-based apps, packaged into .debs and put into repositories
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| 19:51 | I haven't tried non-portable apps yet, but I think my idea would work for multiuser setups, yeah
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| 19:52 | Remember that you can also use ltsp to send windows VMs to the client
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| 19:52 | s
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| 19:52 | <Nubae> hmmm from what u are saying it sounds like crossover would really help here then
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> So you can have photoshop in all PCs with a single windows + photoshop installation
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| 19:52 | <Nubae> I dont want to do that cause then everyone will demand that
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| 19:52 | <alkisg> (that's a windows vm running locally)
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| 19:52 | <Nubae> yeah i know
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| 19:53 | i prefer they stay inside linux always
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| 20:12 | <jammcq> hey guys
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| 20:13 | <Nubae> alkisg, whens around did u speak about fatwine in logs?
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| 20:13 | hi jammcq
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| 20:13 | <jammcq> hey Nubae
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> Nubae: there's no significant difference between thin and fat wine
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| 20:16 | <Nubae> alkisg, really? then I'm defetly using crossover, cause thats a piece of cake
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| 20:16 | <alkisg> ΟΚ
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| 20:17 | <Nubae> i shall document my troubles
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