IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 May 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 03:36 | <vagrantc> heh. non of the windows computers at the hostal i'm at can browse the web.
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| 03:37 | * vagrantc grabs some live CDs | |
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| 05:13 | <vagrantc> so, dynamically generating debian/control is pretty easy.
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| 05:13 | i don't know why we didn't do it years ago.
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| 06:33 | <ogra> vagrantc, rich and i are going over the spec priorities oin #edubuntu
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| 06:33 | thought you might join the discussion :)
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| 06:34 | jammcq, you too if youre awake and willing indeed
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| 06:55 | <vagrantc> http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/vagrant-ltsp-controlgen
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| 07:20 | * highvoltage eats a kit-kat and wonders why dtrask is so quiet | |
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| 07:49 | <cliebow> highvoltage:that is a switch when dtrask is quiet..
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| 08:06 | <cliebow> bill_c!!!!
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| 08:42 | <Blinny> jammcq: I have a question about the boxes at disklessworkstations - Do any/all of them use an accelerated xserver straight out of the box? (I see one needs an add-on package)
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| 08:47 | ace_suares has joined #ltsp | |
| 08:48 | <ace_suares> hi there...
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| 08:48 | !seen Gadi
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| 08:48 | <ltspbot`> ace_suares: Gadi was last seen in #ltsp 18 hours, 58 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Gadi> heh, grazie!
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| 08:48 | <jammcq> Blinny: umm, not sure
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| 08:48 | <ace_suares> hi jammcq !
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| 08:48 | <jammcq> the t-1220 is the current one we're pushing, and it's gonna use the vesa driver by default
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| 08:48 | <ace_suares> ogra tells me to look for Gadi for a patch to LDM...
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| 08:49 | it's kind of the holy grail I think... :-)
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| 08:49 | ping Gadi
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| 08:49 | <ogra> jammcq, but works great with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenChrome
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> ace_suares: pong
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| 08:50 | <ace_suares> Gadi: Hi !
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| 08:50 | <ogra> Gadi, you had a proper patch that applied to feisty for the LDM_DIRECTX stuff
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| 08:50 | <ace_suares> Gadi: Ogra tells me you have a patch for LDM to strip away X encryption... ?
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| 08:50 | <ogra> ace_suares would love to test that
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| 08:50 | <jammcq> ogra: yeah, but that needs to be installed. And, when you install that, it replaces the normal via driver, which might cause problems for other thin clients
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| 08:50 | <ogra> jammcq, indeed
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| 08:50 | <jammcq> so, it may not be the perfect solution
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> sure - you can either grab from launchpad or I can send/pastebot the patch
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| 08:51 | <ogra> jammcq, but i was planning to have at least a package for gutsy, so people can install it in the chroot
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> whichever
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| 08:51 | <ace_suares> Gadi; launchpad is fine, where ?
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| 08:51 | * vagrantc has a branch | |
| 08:51 | <jammcq> ogra: it would be great if it wasn't a replacement for 'via', but instead an additional driver so they could both exist at the same time
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| 08:51 | <ogra> jammcq, as i was planning to pull things like the amd driver to main :)
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> https://code.launchpad.net/~gideon/ltsp/gadi-ldm-mods-ltsp
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| 08:52 | <ogra> jammcq, i think that doesnt work by design :/ thats why openchrome isnt packaged at all
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| 08:52 | * vagrantc nudged and nudged and nudged Gadi to put up a bzr branch | |
| 08:52 | <Gadi> you can just pull the ldm script out of there and replace your original
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| 08:52 | <ace_suares> Gadi: I will try.
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| 08:52 | <Gadi> vagrantc: see, and they still ask for just the patch :)
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| 08:53 | ace_suares: after you replace it, set: LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 08:53 | in lts.conf
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| 08:53 | <ace_suares> Gadi: Okay. And I like bzr !
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| 08:53 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'll probably try and split your patch into three
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| 08:53 | <ogra> Gadi, for a user who already has a running feisty its easier to apply a five line patch to get X uinencrypted
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| 08:53 | <Gadi> ace_suares: that makes one of us :)
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| 08:53 | * ace_suares blushes... need to apt-get bzr :-) | |
| 08:53 | * ogra hopes Gadi has split it already | |
| 08:53 | * Gadi goes back to work... | |
| 08:54 | * ace_suares thanx Gadi | |
| 08:54 | <ogra> DIRECTX has nothing to do with autologin, so they should be separate :)
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| 08:54 | <Gadi> ogra: I welcome your patches of my patches
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| 08:54 | :)
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| 08:54 | * vagrantc will re-patch | |
| 08:55 | <vagrantc> 522 Gideon Romm 2007-05-21
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| 08:55 | modified ldm
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| 08:55 | heh.
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| 08:55 | <ogra> heh
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| 08:55 | descriptive :)
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| 08:55 | <vagrantc> it's better than "changed something"
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| 08:56 | <ogra> lol, indeed
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| 08:56 | <ace_suares> or 'cleaned up some mess'
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| 08:56 | <ogra> 50% better :)
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| 08:56 | <ace_suares> or 'just testing' ;-)
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| 08:56 | <Blinny> jammcq: Oh. I thought you were disklessworkstations.com
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| 08:57 | <jammcq> Blinny: I am, but i'm not the guy who handles the hardware
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| 08:57 | <Blinny> Ah.
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| 08:57 | <ogra> Blinny, the 150 is more happy with 16bit but uses the via driver just fine and the 170 is fine as well
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| 08:57 | <jammcq> but... the 150 is no longer available
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| 08:58 | <ogra> for the t-1220 you need the openchrome driver but the vesa mode is the fastes i've ever seen, there is not much speedup in using openchrome ...
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| 08:58 | (openchrome gives you xv and stuff though)
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| 08:58 | <Blinny> I'm just worried about hanging a lot of vesa clients off this server.
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| 08:58 | <jammcq> Blinny: how many is "a lot" ?
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| 08:59 | <Blinny> jammcq: Fortunately it will slowly grow. The potential is ~35
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| 08:59 | <ogra> well, the vesa driver puts the load on the client anyway ...
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| 08:59 | <ogra> not on the server
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| 08:59 | <Blinny> Oh?
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| 09:00 | <jammcq> the server won't know the difference
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| 09:00 | <Blinny> Awesome. Thanks guys.
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| 09:01 | <ogra> i dont even think it did that in XDMCP ... but for sure with ldm its impossible that the client driver puts load on the server
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| 09:01 | by design
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| 09:01 | <Blinny> This is K12LTSP. I'm not using LDM
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| 09:01 | <jammcq> the load is between the Xserver and the graphics card
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| 09:01 | <Blinny> Cool. And the Xserver is the client, right?
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| 09:01 | <jammcq> the Xclient doesn't know the difference
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| 09:01 | it's just talking X protocol
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| 09:01 | <ogra> jammcq, right, i wasnt sure if there is a difference in XDMCP with that
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| 09:02 | <jammcq> the Xserver is the *driver* for the video card, and it's running on the thin client
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| 09:02 | the Xserver talks X11 protocol on one side, and manipulates hardware registers on the other side
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| 09:02 | <Blinny> Cool.
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| 09:02 | <ogra> the only thing an x driver could slow down would be the boot ... if the driver itself is several 100 MB big ;)
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| 09:03 | <jammcq> heh
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| 09:03 | <Blinny> I see the bold red 'requires' text on the site but I have to ask - Could I use the 1225e just fine without the openchrome addition?
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| 09:03 | <Gadi> ogra: quick question: if ltspfsd runs with '-a' option, why set the DISPLAY environment and create the xauth stuff in ltspfsmounter?
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| 09:03 | or is that left over from XDMCP
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| 09:03 | <ogra> Gadi, for X :) that code is older than ltspfs
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| 09:03 | <Blinny> meaning, using vesa?
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| 09:03 | <Gadi> ok
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| 09:03 | just checkin
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| 09:04 | <ogra> Gadi, somehow debian belived it speeds up the login :)
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| 09:04 | its a patch from pere
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| 09:04 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 09:04 | <ogra> yo sbalneav
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| 09:05 | !s
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| 09:05 | <ltspbot`> ogra: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:05 | <jammcq> !s
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| 09:05 | <ltspbot`> jammcq: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:05 | <sbalneav> heh, I liked the ldm-impovements emails I got this morning
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| 09:06 | <ogra> sbalneav, you will get more
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| 09:06 | <sbalneav> ogra -> approver riched
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| 09:06 | riched -> approver ogra
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| 09:06 | <ogra> i'm setting priorities the next days
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| 09:06 | <sbalneav> ogra -> approver riched
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| 09:06 | <ogra> yes, i was trying something
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| 09:06 | i somehow cant set the prio
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| 09:06 | not even as approver
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| 09:06 | need to find out why
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| 09:07 | sbalneav, we plan to assign specs to people next meeting
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| 09:07 | so if you want to implement some be there at the edubuntu meeting :)
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| 09:08 | <ace_suares> ogra, vagrantc, Gadi: this seems to make a *huge* difference!
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| 09:09 | <ogra> ace_suares, :)
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| 09:09 | tahts what i expected :)
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| 09:09 | <ace_suares> (in a positive way). Mouse is not sluggish anymore. I will test further, tough.
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| 09:09 | <vagrantc> LDM creating an xauth file did, in fact, speed up login by about 20 seconds on debian.
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| 09:09 | <Gadi> ace_suares: :)
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| 09:09 | <ace_suares> ogra you the man !
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| 09:09 | <ogra> ace_suares, nope, Gadi is ;)
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| 09:09 | <ace_suares> gadi too, of course. I just rpelaced the whole ldm scriptfile, that was okay
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| 09:10 | <ogra> vagrantc, i never saw that speedup on ubuntu
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| 09:10 | * ace_suares thinks ogra and gadi and vagrantc and all of you are great! | |
| 09:10 | <vagrantc> ogra: i don't care. :P
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| 09:10 | <ogra> vagrantc, could that be from a time where debian used xfree ?
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| 09:10 | i think the breezy version still did
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| 09:10 | <ace_suares> hi scotty :-)
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| 09:10 | <vagrantc> ogra: i know for an absolute fact it delayed login by an unacceptible amount of time, and it fixed the problem :P
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| 09:10 | <ogra> vagrantc, great then :)
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| 09:11 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, i don't know if it's still the case. although we'll need xauth stuff for localapps anyways
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| 09:11 | <ogra> right
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| 09:11 | <vagrantc> or wait, Gadi was talking about ltspfs
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| 09:11 | <ogra> we dont need it for ltspfs (and never will)
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| 09:12 | <vagrantc> it looks like ltspfsmounter sets DISPLAY
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| 09:12 | hard-coded, no less.
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| 09:13 | <ogra> yeah, but it doesnt need it iirc
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| 09:13 | ltspfs complains if DISPLAY is empty
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| 09:13 | <pere> ogra: and it did speed up the boot, as xdebconfigurator is faster than the xorg postinst, and uses debconf a lot less.
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| 09:13 | <ogra> its just to get rid of the complaint
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| 09:13 | pere, we were talking about xauth
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| 09:14 | not about the config
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| 09:14 | (which will die this relöease anywhay i hope)
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| 09:14 | xorg 7.3 wont need a config :)
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| 09:14 | <vagrantc> it would be nice to not use debconf at all.
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| 09:14 | <ogra> vagrantc, it makes sense in places ...
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| 09:15 | but i agree we should move all debconf usage abhind the ldm start :)
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| 09:15 | *behind
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| 09:15 | and replace it where it needs to be run befoore
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| 09:16 | <vagrantc> ideally, sure.
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| 09:16 | <pere> ogra: good to hear. about time xorg worked without config. It was the killer feature in xfree86. (The feature commited just after the project killed itself. :)
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| 09:16 | <ogra> the new x configurator in ubuntu will change a lot alongside with xorg 7.3 the config stuff should be able to just go away
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| 09:16 | <ace_suares> gadi just saves my *ss here... winxp is workable now ! thx, I'll get back to you.
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| 09:19 | * ogra takes a break | |
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| 09:19 | <vagrantc> Gadi: directx probably doesn't work across NAT, does it?
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| 09:19 | <Gadi> no
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| 09:20 | hence my desire to have a switch to tunnel localdev as well
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| 09:20 | so, its either tunneled or direct
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| 09:20 | <vagrantc> that would be nice
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| 09:20 | <Gadi> its on my todo list, no worries
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| 09:21 | <vagrantc> Gadi: you leave a lot of fingerprints in your code :P
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| 09:21 | <Gadi> tunneling is most useful when you are going across subnets, which if you are doing anyway, you should expect some performance hit
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| 09:22 | that was the first time I left fingerprints - because otherwise I tend to be forgotten in the sands of time
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| 09:23 | <ace_suares> ogra: how can it be that win98 with win4lin sported 30 sessions without no problem, and winxp needs this ldm patch ???
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| 09:23 | <vagrantc> Gadi: if you leave fingerprints, you also need to leave copyright notices and licensing terms...
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| 09:23 | <Gadi> dude, they're patches
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| 09:23 | I have no control over those
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| 09:23 | it's GPL
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| 09:23 | or did you not read the GPL? ;)
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| 09:24 | <vagrantc> i read the GPL now and again ...
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> but, ur right, I should have patched the copyright file in bzr, too
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| 09:26 | tho, who knows what gets merged? ;)
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| 09:27 | <vagrantc> well, i'm breaking up the patches ... directx is really easy to split out
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> they all are
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| 09:27 | they're simple patches
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| 09:27 | <vagrantc> it's true.
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| 09:28 | <ace_suares> ogra, gadi, vagrantc: http://win4lin.com/smf/index.php?topic=6429.0
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| 09:28 | is there a place I can add this to a wiki ?
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| 09:29 | <vagrantc> Gadi: the autologin stuff is the more intrusive ... i'll do that last
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| 09:30 | <Gadi> ace_suares: don't forget to tell folks how to switch it on
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| 09:30 | LDM_DIRECTX
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| 09:31 | * jammcq is just waiting for the microsoft trademark lawyers to knock on his door | |
| 09:32 | <Gadi> heh, its ur door now, buddy
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| 09:32 | ;)
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| 09:32 | lambda has quit IRC | |
| 09:32 | <jammcq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directx
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| 09:33 | * vagrantc stares at all the tabs | |
| 09:33 | <sbalneav> yeah, DIRECTX
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| 09:33 | If I might suggest LDM_NOXENCRYPT?
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> well, that rolls off the tongue
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| 09:34 | ;)
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| 09:34 | * sbalneav blows a raspberry at gadi :) | |
| 09:34 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 09:34 | <jammcq> sure, noxen crypt
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> hey, sbalneav, does ltspfs also make a call to xauth?
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| 09:35 | <sbalneav> Yes it does.
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> ah...
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| 09:35 | eso si que es
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| 09:36 | <ace_suares> updated: http://win4lin.com/smf/index.php?topic=6429.0
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> sbalneav: is there a bypass flag for that?
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| 09:41 | <ace_suares> gotta go now. Will try to find out how to enable sound (on qemu+winxp) later. bye
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| 09:44 | <Q-FUNK> is burgundavia gone or currently Burgwork ?
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| 09:52 | <vagrantc> Gadi: wasn't LDM_SERVER my idea? :P
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> I dont think so
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| 09:52 | :P
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| 09:52 | but, we can share it if you like
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| 09:52 | :)
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| 09:53 | <vagrantc> well, you asked for the feature, but i actually do recall the one-line patch i posted
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> ah, this is true
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| 09:53 | I remember that
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| 09:53 | <vagrantc> if you take no offense, i'll leave the fingerprints out of that commit ...
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| 09:53 | but thank you in the commit message
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> np
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| 09:55 | hey, do you know how in python to use call(command) and then direct any output from command's children on stderr to /dev/null?
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| 09:55 | can I simply add '2>/dev/null' to the command?
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| 09:56 | <vagrantc> no idea
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| 09:56 | fire up an interpreter and find out :P
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| 09:57 | Gadi: are you attached to LDM_DIRECTX ... or would simply DIRECTX or DIRECT_X be ok?
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| 09:58 | <Gadi> I suppose that would solve the trademark issues
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| 09:58 | ;)
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| 09:58 | <vagrantc> oh
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| 09:58 | heh
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> tho, now that its been posted to the world, we could do: LDM_DIRECTX or LDM_DIRECT_X
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| 09:59 | <vagrantc> Gadi: or what about simple LDM_DIRECT ?
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| 09:59 | * Gadi shrugs | |
| 09:59 | <Gadi> no, keep the X in there
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| 09:59 | <vagrantc> LDM_WITH_NO_CUMBERSOME_ENCRYPTION
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| 09:59 | Gadi: why do you want the X ?
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> because we may want to use LDM_DIRECT for a master switch at some point
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| 10:00 | that un-tunnels everything
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| 10:00 | vs. tunneling everything
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 10:00 | <Gadi> remember, its more than just encryption
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| 10:00 | its tunneling
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| 10:01 | <vagrantc> are there any situations where you would want LDM's X session to be direct but not other things?
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| 10:01 | or vice-versa ?
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| 10:01 | <ogra> ace_suares, if you give it a bit more positive title (like "trading security for speed in ubuntu ltsp" for example :) ) you can add it to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 10:02 | * vagrantc notices the clock | |
| 10:03 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'll just leave it with what you've got.
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| 10:04 | <Gadi> vagrantc: yes - for example, you may want the encryption for X, but not tunnel sound
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| 10:04 | * vagrantc forgets half of the ldm_directx merge and remembers to use uncommit :) | |
| 10:04 | <Gadi> as is the current situation
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| 10:04 | <ogra> i would call it LDM_IS_TOTALLY_INSECURE_AND_I_KNOW_THAT
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| 10:04 | <Gadi> heh
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| 10:04 | <vagrantc> ogra: but it's actually not TOTALLY insecure, just mostly.
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| 10:04 | <Gadi> now, that's positive
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| 10:04 | ;)
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| 10:05 | <ogra> vagrantc, indeed, its a hige impürovemnent over XDMCP, but still
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| 10:05 | <Gadi> how about, LDM_TRUSTED
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| 10:05 | ;)
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| 10:05 | <ogra> dont do onlinebanking with it :)
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> LDM_INSECURE
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| 10:05 | <ogra> yeah
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| 10:05 | <Gadi> ah, but alas, security is a spectrum, is it not?
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| 10:06 | lol
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| 10:06 | <ogra> LDM_DROP_SECURITY
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> LDM_FORGET_ABOUT_SECURITY
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| 10:06 | <Gadi> why not: LDM_IMPROVE_PERFORMANCE
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| 10:06 | ;)
| |
| 10:06 | <vagrantc> LDM_SIGNIFICANTLY_LESS_SECURE
| |
| 10:06 | <highvoltage> LDM_BOOT_T2100_IN_10_SECONDS
| |
| 10:06 | <vagrantc> LDM_IMPROVE_SPEED_AT_COST_IN_SECURITY
| |
| 10:06 | <ogra> LDM_MEDIOCRE_SECURITY
| |
| 10:07 | <highvoltage> I think vagrantc has a winner
| |
| 10:07 | <vagrantc> LDM_PRETTY_INSECURE
| |
| 10:07 | <ogra> highvoltage, it doesnt speed up the boot in any way ;)
| |
| 10:07 | <vagrantc> LDM_MOSTLY_INSECURE
| |
| 10:07 | there, i'm dont!
| |
| 10:07 | done, even.
| |
| 10:08 | <ogra> LDM_XDMCP ?
| |
| 10:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: do you object to LDM_DIRECTX
| |
| 10:08 | MoL0ToV has quit IRC | |
| 10:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's not really XDMCP
| |
| 10:08 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, its quite confusing for win users
| |
| 10:08 | but apart from that it describes what it does
| |
| 10:09 | <vagrantc> hrm.
| |
| 10:09 | tiagovaz has quit IRC | |
| 10:09 | <ogra> LDM_UNENCRYPTED would probably be an option
| |
| 10:11 | <Gadi> but, there's also the tunneling
| |
| 10:11 | thats why I did "DIRECTX"
| |
| 10:11 | <vagrantc> part of the session is actualy encrypted
| |
| 10:12 | <Gadi> maybe: LDM_UNTUNNELED
| |
| 10:12 | or some such
| |
| 10:12 | * vagrantc hopes for a good such | |
| 10:12 | <Gadi> but, to me, the tunneling aspect is just as important as the encryption
| |
| 10:12 | * vagrantc merged LDM_SERVER directly into vagran-ltsp-mainline | |
| 10:13 | <Gadi> LDM_X_OVER_SSH = False
| |
| 10:13 | ;)
| |
| 10:13 | <ogra> nah
| |
| 10:13 | <Gadi> LDM_NOXPROXY
| |
| 10:13 | <ogra> we wannabe positive in our configs :P
| |
| 10:13 | thats better :)
| |
| 10:14 | <vagrantc> LDM_NO_X_PROXY ...
| |
| 10:14 | hrm.
| |
| 10:14 | <Gadi> or: LDM_NO_X_OVER_SSH
| |
| 10:14 | <ogra> way to many underscores :)
| |
| 10:14 | <vagrantc> LDM_DIRECT_X11
| |
| 10:15 | <ogra> thats good
| |
| 10:15 | <Gadi> LDM_X = "direct"
| |
| 10:15 | LDM_X = "ssh"
| |
| 10:15 | (default)
| |
| 10:15 | <vagrantc> oooh.
| |
| 10:15 | <ogra> nah, boolean is better
| |
| 10:15 | unless we plan millions of nifty other transports
| |
| 10:16 | which i doubt
| |
| 10:17 | <[ALX]> Hello everybody. I'm using LTSP with some diskless stations running a clipper application over DOSEMU, but this application uses the f11 and ALT+F10 keys and they are not working. Has anyone had this problem and know how to work around it?
| |
| 10:17 | <vagrantc> LDM_X11_FORWARDING=false
| |
| 10:17 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: What window manager are you using?
| |
| 10:18 | <ogra> vagrantc, sounds good as well, but a bit long
| |
| 10:18 | <vagrantc> LDM_X11_FORWARD
| |
| 10:18 | <ogra> yep
| |
| 10:18 | better
| |
| 10:18 | <[ALX]> I forgot to mention. I don't use X window
| |
| 10:18 | <vagrantc> Gadi: LDM_X11_FORWARD ?
| |
| 10:19 | <Gadi> well, it is a negative
| |
| 10:19 | <ogra> you could drop 11
| |
| 10:19 | <vagrantc> now it sounds dumb.
| |
| 10:19 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: So, is dosemu running on the server, or on the thin client itself?
| |
| 10:19 | <Gadi> but, if thats ok
| |
| 10:19 | <vagrantc> we've talked abou this too long. everything sounds stupid.
| |
| 10:19 | <[ALX]> [sbalneav] on the server
| |
| 10:20 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: And you're using what to get to the server? Telnet?
| |
| 10:20 | <vagrantc> the ssh man page calls it "X11 forwarding"
| |
| 10:20 | LDM_X_FORWARDING=true/false (default true)
| |
| 10:20 | <[ALX]> [sbalneav]yes, telnet
| |
| 10:21 | <vagrantc> X_FORWARD doesn't sound right to me, even though FORWARDING seems too long
| |
| 10:21 | <ogra> Gadi, indeed, its ok, i was joking ...
| |
| 10:22 | <Gadi> ah, my German humor's a bit rusty ;)
| |
| 10:22 | <sbalneav> It may be that you may need to change your default TERM environment variable. Does it work on the server console?
| |
| 10:22 | <Gadi> all I remember is glockenspiel
| |
| 10:22 | <ogra> i'm just not happy if we use descriptive settings (which need explicit documentation) over boolean
| |
| 10:22 | as long as we can catch stuff with a boolean, we should do it
| |
| 10:23 | <Gadi> agreed
| |
| 10:23 | <sbalneav> ogra: farfegnugen
| |
| 10:23 | <ogra> lol
| |
| 10:23 | <vagrantc> LDM_TOOK_TOO_LONG_TO_DECIDE_ON_A_GOOD_VARIABLE_NAME
| |
| 10:24 | <ogra> vagrantc, perfect
| |
| 10:24 | * ogra looks at the column size in the ltsp-parameters file ... | |
| 10:24 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: It may be that you may need to change your default TERM environment variable. Does it work on the server console?
| |
| 10:24 | <[ALX]> [sbalneav]It doesn't work on the server console. On the diskless, the clipper app uses the f5 key also, this one works fine.
| |
| 10:25 | * ogra adds an "only edit this file on widescreen displays!" disclaimer at the top | |
| 10:25 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: So, it doesn't work on the server console?
| |
| 10:25 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah, it's a bit cumbersome
| |
| 10:26 | <[ALX]> [sbalneav]no, it doesn't
| |
| 10:26 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: So, that's not really an LTSP problem, is it?
| |
| 10:26 | You've got a dosemu problem.
| |
| 10:27 | <vagrantc> well, i'm going to leave it as LDM_DIRECTX for now ...
| |
| 10:27 | though my favorite so far is LDM_X_FORWARDING
| |
| 10:28 | really, that doesn't make any sense unless you read ssh man pages, though.
| |
| 10:28 | LDM_X_ENCRYPTION ?
| |
| 10:28 | <ogra> hmm
| |
| 10:28 | <vagrantc> LDM does tunneling by it's very nature
| |
| 10:28 | <[ALX]> [sbalneav]I have to agree with you. I just thought maybe someone could have had this problem and could give me a tip. Thank you anyway. Sorry to bother you.
| |
| 10:28 | <ogra> sounds good as well
| |
| 10:29 | <Gadi> LDM_NO_X_OVER_SSH
| |
| 10:29 | <vagrantc> too many underscores
| |
| 10:29 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: Not at all, just wanted to point you in the right direction
| |
| 10:29 | <Gadi> or LDM_X_OVER_SSH
| |
| 10:29 | <ogra> Gadi, fan of underscores ?
| |
| 10:29 | <vagrantc> with short bits in between
| |
| 10:29 | Gadi: that looks pretty good
| |
| 10:29 | <sbalneav> [ALX]: Not sure if there's a dosemu channel. There may be a mailing list you could ask on.
| |
| 10:29 | <ogra> i like LDM_X_ENCRYPTION most
| |
| 10:29 | <Gadi> I keep the underscore maker's kids in college ;)
| |
| 10:30 | I dont
| |
| 10:30 | <vagrantc> or ...
| |
| 10:30 | <Gadi> its not descriptive
| |
| 10:30 | <vagrantc> LDM_ENCRYPT_X
| |
| 10:30 | <[ALX]> [sbalneav]Ok. Thanks again
| |
| 10:30 | <Gadi> it only describes one aspect of what you are changing
| |
| 10:30 | <sbalneav> oooh
| |
| 10:30 | I like that one.
| |
| 10:30 | <vagrantc> Gadi: ssh is only descriptive to those who know what it is
| |
| 10:30 | <Gadi> LDM_TUNNEL_X
| |
| 10:30 | <ogra> sbalneav, which one ?
| |
| 10:30 | * jammcq prefers SSH instead of ENCRYPT | |
| 10:30 | <vagrantc> encryption is an english word
| |
| 10:30 | <sbalneav> LDM_ENCRYPT_X
| |
| 10:30 | [ALX] has left #ltsp | |
| 10:31 | * ogra teands to agree with vagrantc about SSH | |
| 10:31 | <vagrantc> LDM_NO_SPELLCHECK
| |
| 10:31 | <sbalneav> How about LDM_SECURE_X
| |
| 10:31 | <jammcq> heh
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> TUNNEL is english ;)
| |
| 10:31 | <jammcq> it's SSH
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| 10:31 | vanya has quit IRC | |
| 10:31 | <jammcq> youa re either USING SSH or NOT USING SSH
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| 10:31 | <ogra> sbalneav, LDM_INSECURE_X then :)
| |
| 10:31 | <Blinny> LDM_BUNCHA_XORS
| |
| 10:31 | oh wait, buncha is pseudo-english
| |
| 10:31 | <vagrantc> ok. we just need a table of valid values :)
| |
| 10:32 | <sbalneav> jammcq: We're using ssh for now. Maybe in a year we'll be using ssl :)
| |
| 10:32 | <jammcq> who's to say we won't come up with another method of doing secure X?
| |
| 10:32 | maybe X over SSL
| |
| 10:32 | <sbalneav> bingo
| |
| 10:32 | <jammcq> then what does 'ENCRYPT' mean?
| |
| 10:32 | <sbalneav> LDM_SECURE_X would cover that
| |
| 10:32 | <vagrantc> i kind of like LDM_SECURE_X=false because you really can't complaint
| |
| 10:32 | <jammcq> it's no longer telling us whether it's SSH or not
| |
| 10:32 | <ogra> well, we're not talking about the current encryprted method, do we ?
| |
| 10:32 | <vagrantc> complain
| |
| 10:32 | <jammcq> but..... the fix gadi created is to use or NOT use SSH
| |
| 10:32 | so why not call it like it is
| |
| 10:33 | <ogra> we're talking about the unencrypted one ;)
| |
| 10:33 | <vagrantc> jammcq: because it's stil lusing ssh
| |
| 10:33 | <jammcq> we're talking about using SSH or not using SSH
| |
| 10:33 | only to launch it
| |
| 10:33 | <ogra> LDM_DROP_SECURITY :)
| |
| 10:33 | <jammcq> it's not using SSH to tunnel the traffic
| |
| 10:33 | <sbalneav> You know, while I'm following this debate, I'm not coding. :) Let me know what to call the variable.
| |
| 10:33 | <jammcq> X_OVER_SSH
| |
| 10:33 | <sbalneav> :)
| |
| 10:33 | <jammcq> it's SOOOOOOOOOOO simple
| |
| 10:34 | <vagrantc> to those who know what SSH is
| |
| 10:34 | <ogra> right
| |
| 10:34 | <Gadi> those who dont will use a GUI
| |
| 10:34 | <jammcq> but it's USING SSH for criss sakes
| |
| 10:34 | <Gadi> in which you can call it whatever you like
| |
| 10:34 | <ogra> its totally unimportant what the encrypted tunnel uses if we want to describe an unencrypted method
| |
| 10:34 | <Gadi> or, you can add a comment to the default lts.conf
| |
| 10:34 | <vagrantc> well, i've said my bit.
| |
| 10:35 | <ogra> LDM_CIPHER_NONE :P
| |
| 10:35 | <jammcq> I say 'X_OVER_SSH', with a default of 'Y' (or True, or Yes, or whatever way you want)
| |
| 10:35 | <Gadi> im with jammcq - variables should describe what they do technically, comments or GUIs should dumb it down
| |
| 10:35 | <ogra> to make it totally descriptive to everyone :P
| |
| 10:36 | * vagrantc can't wait to implement LDM's tls backend | |
| 10:36 | <vagrantc> X_OVER_TLS_AND_OR_SSL
| |
| 10:36 | * ogra starts to prefer keepin the current LDM_DIRECTX | |
| 10:36 | * jammcq is going out drinking for lunch, who wants to come? | |
| 10:36 | <ogra> probably with an extra underscore
| |
| 10:37 | <vagrantc> it's still siesta time!
| |
| 10:37 | * vagrantc should go out and drink away this cold | |
| 10:37 | efra has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:37 | <ogra> vagrantc, lots of wine help :)
| |
| 10:37 | <vagrantc> XUNDERSCOREOVERUNDERSCORESSH
| |
| 10:37 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 10:38 | * jammcq is making an official motion to call the option 'X_OVER_SSH' with a default of 'Y'. Show whether you agree or disagree with a +1 or -1 | |
| 10:38 | * vagrantc stands aside | |
| 10:38 | <vagrantc> with prejudice (-0.5)
| |
| 10:38 | <ogra> -1
| |
| 10:38 | sbalneav, ?
| |
| 10:38 | <jammcq> +1
| |
| 10:38 | <ogra> Gadi, ?
| |
| 10:39 | <jammcq> I guess they are already meeting me at the bar
| |
| 10:39 | <Gadi> thats: LDM_X_OVER_SSH, right?
| |
| 10:39 | <vagrantc> where all *real* decisions happen anyways
| |
| 10:39 | <jammcq> umm, sure, if you want 'LDM_' in front, I could handle that
| |
| 10:39 | <Gadi> agreed
| |
| 10:39 | * jammcq is making an official motion to call the option 'LDM_X_OVER_SSH' with a default of 'Y'. Show whether you agree or disagree with a +1 or -1 | |
| 10:39 | <jammcq> +1
| |
| 10:39 | <ogra> Gadi, "'X_OVER_SSH' with a default of 'Y'"
| |
| 10:39 | <Gadi> +1
| |
| 10:40 | <vagrantc> -1
| |
| 10:40 | too cumbersome
| |
| 10:40 | <ogra> ok, up to scottie then
| |
| 10:40 | <jammcq> pfffff
| |
| 10:40 | like you'll be typing it in every day !!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 10:40 | <Gadi> what a crew...
| |
| 10:40 | ;)
| |
| 10:40 | <ogra> jammcq, no, but we need to explain it to useers during support
| |
| 10:40 | * vagrantc has typed far too mand underscores in one day | |
| 10:40 | * jammcq senses the beginning of the end | |
| 10:41 | <jammcq> pretty soon the committees take over, and then death sets in
| |
| 10:41 | <vagrantc> overall, i don't care.
| |
| 10:41 | i haven't seen any new ideas, i see the validity in most of them.
| |
| 10:41 | <ogra> well, lets go with the authors intention and keep away from comitees ?
| |
| 10:42 | and just merge the patch ?
| |
| 10:42 | <vagrantc> done.
| |
| 10:42 | <ogra> good :)
| |
| 10:42 | <Gadi> lol
| |
| 10:42 | <vagrantc> i'd have to change more code if we change the variable name ... since it users python directx variables all over the place
| |
| 10:42 | <ogra> best way to burn 1h developer time ?
| |
| 10:42 | go to #ltsp :)
| |
| 10:42 | * vagrantc was working the whole time | |
| 10:43 | <jammcq> just forward me your addresses, so I know where to send the Microsoft trademark lawyers
| |
| 10:43 | <ogra> haha
| |
| 10:43 | <vagrantc> jammcq: gadi included his address all over the place.
| |
| 10:43 | that is a valid point. ungh.
| |
| 10:43 | <ogra> *g*
| |
| 10:43 | nah
| |
| 10:43 | come on
| |
| 10:43 | its a descriptive config option in a file
| |
| 10:44 | <jammcq> well, when given a choice to bait the other guys, or not, i'd choose to NOT
| |
| 10:44 | <ogra> no lawyer would be able to sue you
| |
| 10:44 | <vagrantc> not true
| |
| 10:44 | the threat of a lawsuit can be more damaging than the lawsuit itself
| |
| 10:44 | <jammcq> he doesn't need to actually win
| |
| 10:44 | <vagrantc> SLAPP suits suck.
| |
| 10:44 | <ogra> we could change it immediately :)
| |
| 10:44 | <jammcq> either way, we lose
| |
| 10:45 | <ogra> i'm not worried
| |
| 10:45 | <vagrantc> ogra: except we'd have to change all the docs
| |
| 10:45 | * vagrantc doesn't even have a clue what M$ directx is | |
| 10:45 | <ogra> *if* an MS lawyer would *accidentially* look into lts.conf docs, yes ...
| |
| 10:46 | <jammcq> google my friend, google.
| |
| 10:46 | <ogra> vagrantc, like SDL for openGL on windows
| |
| 10:46 | sepski has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:46 | <ogra> its a top level multimedia lib
| |
| 10:46 | * vagrantc suffers acronymitis | |
| 10:47 | <jammcq> an inflamation of the acronym ?
| |
| 10:47 | neato
| |
| 10:47 | <vagrantc> i think that's what some of the variable naming was all about
| |
| 10:47 | <ogra> vagrantc, an easy access multimedia programming API ... easy enough VB programmers can understand it
| |
| 10:47 | muh2000 has quit IRC | |
| 10:48 | * vagrantc notes the continued use of acronyms | |
| 10:48 | * vagrantc understands more this time, though | |
| 10:48 | <ogra> i'm working on my expression :)
| |
| 10:48 | <jammcq> ogra: trying to make it more "regular" ?
| |
| 10:49 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 10:49 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i think i'll put off merging the autologin code for another day
| |
| 10:50 | <Gadi> heh, too tiring?
| |
| 10:50 | <ogra> i think we should check it with the new design sbalneav made for the wrapper
| |
| 10:50 | <Gadi> hopefully those vars are more agreeable
| |
| 10:50 | ;)
| |
| 10:50 | <ogra> there mioght be easier and cleaner ways with that, not sure
| |
| 10:50 | <vagrantc> ah hell. i'll just do a throwaway branch
| |
| 10:51 | <ogra> it would have to get ported to C anyway
| |
| 10:52 | the new design opens so many new opportunities :)
| |
| 10:52 | sbalneav, we shouldnt forget to look into full .dmrc support now thats possible ...
| |
| 10:53 | <sbalneav> sure
| |
| 10:53 | First let me get what we've got converted :) :) :)
| |
| 10:53 | <ogra> indeed :)
| |
| 10:54 | lambda_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:54 | <sbalneav> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
| |
| 10:54 | HAHAHAHAHAH
| |
| 10:54 | YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA
| |
| 10:55 | Booheah
| |
| 10:55 | got it going
| |
| 10:55 | wheeeeee
| |
| 10:55 | oin$ ./a.out
| |
| 10:55 | scbal@127.0.0.1's password:
| |
| 10:55 | Linux oin 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Wed May 23 01:46:23 UTC 2007 i686
| |
| 10:55 | The programs included with the Ubuntu system are free software;
| |
| 10:55 | the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the
| |
| 10:55 | individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright.
| |
| 10:55 | Ubuntu comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by
| |
| 10:55 | applicable law.
| |
| 10:55 | Last login: Wed May 30 10:51:15 2007 from localhost
| |
| 10:55 | <jammcq> sbalneav: you doing the happy dance?
| |
| 10:55 | <sbalneav> scbal@oin:~$
| |
| 10:55 | exit
| |
| 10:55 | logout
| |
| 10:55 | Connection to 127.0.0.1 closed.
| |
| 10:55 | That was completely scripted ssh
| |
| 10:55 | in C
| |
| 10:56 | Logged in, waited 15 seconds, logged out
| |
| 10:56 | Sexy.
| |
| 10:56 | Now I'm rollin.
| |
| 10:58 | muh2000 has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:58 | <vagrantc> Gadi: your autologin code is impossible because of your use of tabs :P
| |
| 10:59 | <Gadi> hey - im new to python
| |
| 10:59 | <vagrantc> mixing tabs and spaces is evil.
| |
| 10:59 | <Gadi> i was thinking everything was tabs
| |
| 10:59 | * jammcq prefers spaces | |
| 10:59 | <Gadi> then, found some places with spaces and some with tabs
| |
| 10:59 | * Gadi prefers spaces too | |
| 10:59 | <Gadi> just didnt know if it would work the same
| |
| 10:59 | :)
| |
| 10:59 | <vagrantc> what we agreed on, long long ago, was four spaces.
| |
| 10:59 | <Gadi> I found no fault with curly braces
| |
| 11:00 | <vagrantc> but it's not been consistant throughout
| |
| 11:04 | * ogra dances | |
| 11:04 | <ogra> sbalneav, great news :D
| |
| 11:04 | <vagrantc> we have this problem where some of the code is indented 8 spaces, and some 4.
| |
| 11:05 | and then adding tabs into the mix... evil ensues.
| |
| 11:05 | <Gadi> vagrantc: just keep the indents consistent, as python interprets them
| |
| 11:05 | <vagrantc> you can't just search and replace tabs ... it has to be done manually...
| |
| 11:05 | Gadi: yeah, but *i* have a hell of a time interpreting it :P
| |
| 11:05 | <Gadi> lo siento
| |
| 11:06 | <vagrantc> esta bien
| |
| 11:09 | Gadi: you're not the first person
| |
| 11:09 | * vagrantc glares at ogra | |
| 11:09 | <ogra> vagrantc, i fixed my vimrc ages ago
| |
| 11:10 | <vagrantc> ogra: i'm very glad for that. :)
| |
| 11:11 | <ogra> there is still code i didnt touch thats unfixed
| |
| 11:11 | tiagovaz has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:11 | <ogra> i.e. TCM has still a lot broken indention in it
| |
| 11:12 | pete never touched my code but only added his
| |
| 11:12 | * ogra just had the worst instant noodle thing in his life ... | |
| 11:13 | <ogra> was supposed to be duck ... tasted like hot coke with chilli
| |
| 11:13 | <Q-FUNK> yuck!
| |
| 11:13 | hot yuck
| |
| 11:13 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 11:16 | <vagrantc> Gadi: why a password in lts.conf rather than an ssh key ?
| |
| 11:17 | Gadi: for ldm autologin?
| |
| 11:17 | <Gadi> vagrantc: equally insecure, and some might find it easier
| |
| 11:17 | <vagrantc> fair enough.
| |
| 11:17 | <Gadi> we can add LDM_KEY as an option, too
| |
| 11:17 | <vagrantc> well, not equally insecure, but not much more secure
| |
| 11:18 | <Gadi> whats the diff between putting a private key in lts.conf vs a private password?
| |
| 11:18 | pere is now known as pere_away | |
| 11:19 | <ogra-classmat1> beyond acessing it over unencryted nfs you mean ?
| |
| 11:19 | <vagrantc> a tiny bit of obscurity ... everyone knows what a password is. not everyone knows how to access a private key.
| |
| 11:19 | the key wouldn't be readable to non-root users who didn't think to grab it over NFS
| |
| 11:20 | <ogra-classmat1> well, its very ugly, but we could have an ldm user in the server and scp a key at runtime
| |
| 11:20 | (for an autologin user)
| |
| 11:21 | <vagrantc> how do you scp without a password or a key ?
| |
| 11:21 | <ogra-classmat1> hmm, actually thne we would have to supply the ldm users password
| |
| 11:21 | Lumiere is now known as jstraw | |
| 11:21 | <vagrantc> it's also easier to restrict what an ssh key can do than it is with a password ... you can tie it down to a specific action more easily.
| |
| 11:22 | enough ranting, time to finish the merge and write a little more code :)
| |
| 11:22 | <ogra-classmat1> yeah, i'm also in favor of the key solution
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| 11:22 | <vagrantc> much harder for the admin to set up, though.
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| 11:22 | that's how sdm worked
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| 11:22 | <ogra-classmat1> nit if we make it easy for him :)
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| 11:22 | *not
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| 11:23 | <vagrantc> ogra: true true
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| 11:23 | <ogra-classmat1> its up to us to code it right
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| 11:24 | <vagrantc> we'd need to write scripts to generate the keys and populate the user's authorized_keys files
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| 11:24 | ogra-classmat1 is now known as ogra-classmate | |
| 11:24 | <Gadi> it doesnt hurt to keep the password option
| |
| 11:24 | and augment it
| |
| 11:24 | <vagrantc> right
| |
| 11:25 | <Gadi> if you are setting up an email garden for an hour, you may not care much if it gets hacked
| |
| 11:25 | ;)
| |
| 11:26 | <ogra-classmate> well, for ubuntu it needs to be secure enough that i can get it past the security team
| |
| 11:26 | not sure what they will say
| |
| 11:28 | <Gadi> its an option
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| 11:29 | that is disabled by default
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| 11:29 | Avatara has quit IRC | |
| 11:32 | * vagrantc looks at the old USER@SERVER patches that ogra never liked | |
| 11:33 | <ogra-classmate> user@server patches?
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| 11:33 | <vagrantc> to select the server in LDM, specify username@server at the login screen
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| 11:35 | <ogra-classmate> well, we'll get a proper menu now, no?
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| 11:35 | <vagrantc> allegedl
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| 11:35 | y
| |
| 11:36 | <ogra-classmate> just seeing your mail about the control files, did you look at debian/rules bzr-release ? thats what im using to build the ubuntu sourcepackages
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| 11:36 | <Gadi> speaking of which, please remember a flag to disable a server menu
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| 11:36 | if one is introduced
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| 11:36 | <ogra-classmate> why ?
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| 11:36 | it should be automatic
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| 11:37 | <Gadi> because as an admin, I may not want my users picking servers
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| 11:37 | thats why
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> ogra: i've seen it, yes.
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| 11:37 | <ogra-classmate> well, you would have to define the possible servers
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> ogra-classmate: guess we could put the controlgen stuff in there
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| 11:37 | <Gadi> oh, ok
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| 11:37 | <ogra-classmate> since you need their keys
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| 11:37 | <vagrantc> ogra-classmate: or, as a dependency of bzr-release
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| 11:38 | <Gadi> i thought you were still on a zeroconf kick
| |
| 11:38 | <ogra-classmate> we'll have an easy script to set it up, but its still up to the admin
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| 11:38 | <vagrantc> if no servers are defined, a menu should not be displayed
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| 11:38 | <ogra-classmate> Gadi: zeroconf is the futuree, but even then we'd give the admin control over it
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| 11:38 | <Gadi> vagrantc: 0 or 1
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| 11:39 | <ogra-classmate> not even the code should be loaded
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| 11:39 | <vagrantc> Gadi: right, if 1 or less servers are defined
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| 11:39 | no menu
| |
| 11:40 | if number.servers >= 1 : display.server.menu=false
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| 11:40 | if it makes sense to display the menu, display it
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| 11:44 | http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/ldm-autologin
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| 11:57 | * vagrantc finally respects the wrist break | |
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| 12:02 | <vagrantc> so ...
| |
| 12:02 | * vagrantc contemplates merging ltsp-directx into vagrant-ltsp-mainline | |
| 12:03 | <moquist> where is the NFS root option in menuconfig?
| |
| 12:04 | * vagrantc hasn't built a kernel in ... years | |
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| 12:09 | <ace_suares> vagrantc: are you making a patch for LDM_UNDIRECT_X now, and should I wait with updating the wiki ?
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| 12:10 | <vagrantc> ace_suares: well, i've split out the three features into separate branches
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| 12:13 | <ace_suares> bzr branches ?
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| 12:13 | cyberorg has quit IRC | |
| 12:14 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 12:14 | <moquist> vagrantc: Ahh - while we're making feature requests, we need to be able to have blank passwords without hacking LDM, or the greeter, or whatever.
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| 12:14 | <ace_suares> cool, so I wait a couple of hrs.
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| 12:14 | <vagrantc> ace_suares: well, they're already up
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| 12:15 | ace_suares: it's just gadi's code without some of the other features thrown in
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| 12:15 | moquist: well, that's between pam, ssh and you :P
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| 12:16 | <moquist> vagrantc: the greeter in feisty kicks out blank passwords immediately
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| 12:16 | <vagrantc> moquist: oh.
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| 12:17 | <moquist> vagrantc: In order to have blank passwords, I added a line to the greeter that said "if the password is blank, pretend they actually typed 'secret'", and then I set all the passwords to 'secret'.
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| 12:17 | <ace_suares> http://www.xpunlimited.nl/faq/index.php?action=artikel&cat=5&id=68
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| 12:18 | * ogra-classmate finally decided to answer the ubuntu feature request mail on ltsp-developer | |
| 12:20 | <moquist> FWIW, in menuconfig you can just type '/' and then search for the option you're looking for.
| |
| 12:20 | * moquist just learned this | |
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| 12:23 | <vagrantc> moquist: so... why exactly do you need blank passwords?
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| 12:23 | <ogra-classmate> moquist: zes, its using less as reader
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| 12:23 | *yes even
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| 12:23 | <ace_suares> vagrantc: where ?
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> ace_suares: i posted them to this channel earlier
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| 12:24 | <moquist> vagrantc: It's a training facility and passwords are a benefit-free nuisance.
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| 12:24 | <ace_suares> ah. I was away.
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| 12:24 | http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/ldm-autologin = empty
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> ace_suares: it's a bzr branch, not a web-browseable repository
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| 12:25 | <ogra-classmate> ace_suares: new bzr branches dont show web contents
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| 12:25 | <moquist> vagrantc: More importantly ;), the boss said "K12LTSP can have blank passwords. I guess Edubuntu doesn't have the features we want yet..."
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> bzr get http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/ltsp-directx
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| 12:25 | moquist: right.
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| 12:27 | bill_c has quit IRC | |
| 12:27 | * vagrantc finds it hard to introduce a bug as a feature | |
| 12:28 | <vagrantc> moquist: what about ssh keys ?
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| 12:28 | moquist: if you could configure an ssh key, would that be good enough?
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| 12:29 | <ogra-classmate> vagrantc: hey as a *security* feature :)
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| 12:29 | <vagrantc> well, i'm just trying to turn a bad idea into a less bad one :)
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| 12:30 | <ogra-classmate> an idea would also be to fix it ... hmm
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| 12:31 | <vagrantc> ogra-classmate: you mean break an obviously intentional security decision
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| 12:31 | <moquist> vagrantc: that would be fine, but it should be easy to do. (as easy as setting a blank password)
| |
| 12:31 | * ogra-classmate thinks he heard of people doing that :) | |
| 12:31 | <vagrantc> moquist: what do you have to do to set a blank password?
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| 12:32 | <moquist> Seriously, in some environments there are good reasons for engaging in what would otherwise be very bad security decisions. I don't think my boss is wrong to want blank passwords in this one instance.
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| 12:32 | <ogra-classmate> you dont set one during user creation
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| 12:32 | <moquist> vagrantc: er, I'm not sure what the "right" way may be, but I blank out the field in /etc/shadow. :p
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| 12:33 | <vagrantc> moquist: i'm just trying to guage how "easy" it is now, so i can guage what i'm trying to re-implement
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| 12:33 | <ogra-classmate> re ?
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| 12:34 | i dont think that was ever there
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| 12:34 | <vagrantc> works in sdm
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| 12:34 | <moquist> vagrantc: I just asked my co-worker who did this on FC6, and the answer is 'passwd -fu <username>'
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| 12:34 | <vagrantc> ltsp and ldm all feel like re-implementing to me :P
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| 12:34 | <ogra-classmate> oh, i thought you talked about ldm
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| 12:34 | * moquist loves that option | |
| 12:35 | <ogra-classmate> force unset ?
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| 12:35 | (guessed)
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| 12:36 | hm
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| 12:36 | \whats -f ?
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| 12:36 | <vagrantc> moquist: ok, so a command would have to essentially run with a username and an option or two ?
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| 12:36 | <moquist> vagrantc: Yep. (ideally)
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| 12:37 | <vagrantc> shouldn't be too hard...
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| 12:37 | <moquist> vagrantc: But as a starting point, the greeter could just allow blank passwords...
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| 12:37 | <vagrantc> ogra-classmate: think that'll fly with ubuntu's security team?
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| 12:37 | <moquist> vagrantc: GDM allows blank passwords, so I should hope so!
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| 12:38 | <ogra-classmate> if you have to dliberately enable it, it will
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| 12:38 | <moquist> vagrantc: It could be an LDM config option.
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| 12:38 | ogra-classmate: right
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| 12:38 | * vagrantc refuses to get into another variable naming debate today | |
| 12:38 | <ogra-classmate> lol
| |
| 12:41 | * vagrantc needs to make some dinner | |
| 12:42 | <vagrantc> ogra-classmate: you think the LDM_DIRECTX stuff is should be merged into mainline?
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| 12:42 | <ogra-classmate> yep
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| 12:42 | asap
| |
| 12:42 | i merged mainline but somehow LP is still taking its time
| |
| 12:42 | <vagrantc> merged it with what?
| |
| 12:43 | * vagrantc hopes we aren't working on the same stuff at the same time | |
| 12:43 | <ogra-classmate> merged with your merge branch
| |
| 12:43 | i'll then branch off the gutsy branch off that
| |
| 12:44 | <vagrantc> what about the autologin stuff ?
| |
| 12:44 | <ogra-classmate> hmm, i ne4ed to move the mainline branch over to LP completely and you need cdommit rights
| |
| 12:45 | currently its mirroring from people.ubuntu.com
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| 12:45 | i'll make ltsp-drivers the owner so even jammcq can commit :)
| |
| 12:48 | * ogra-classmate wonders how to manage that and keep the old branch name | |
| 12:48 | <vagrantc> we could start over
| |
| 12:50 | <ogra-classmate> nah
| |
| 12:51 | we cant lose the branch history
| |
| 12:51 | mainline should be fine now, shouldnt ?
| |
| 12:51 | *it
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| 12:51 | <vagrantc> if you pull vagrant-ltsp-mainline, sure :)
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| 12:52 | i gotta make some food
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| 12:53 | <ogra-classmate> indeed, thats our new mainline
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| 12:53 | <vagrantc> ok. pushed the LDM_SERVER and LDM_DIRECTX patches just not. still haven't pulled the ldm autologin stuff
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| 13:09 | <Gadi> speaking of blank passwords, did you know that: U6aMy0wojraho corresponds to a blank password?
| |
| 13:09 | what a world
| |
| 13:10 | <ogra> yes, i did
| |
| 13:10 | we use it in various places on the livecd :)
| |
| 13:16 | * Riddell learns something new (if only because that password includes one of my highlights) | |
| 13:17 | <ogra-classmate> heh
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| 13:49 | <sbalneav> Man, Canadians. Always so helpful.
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| 13:49 | http://keyetv.com/topstories/topstories_story_149095534.html
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| 13:59 | irule has quit IRC | |
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| 14:06 | <ace_suares> hmmm... maybe bzr should show wecontents, then i could just tell people to pull of the ldm script and bingo.
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| 14:07 | <ace_suares> anyway, I am lost as to where to get the final ldm thingy. I'll check bank in a cople of hours, now I am gonna find sound on the winxp thing.
| |
| 14:07 | btw what did you think of xpunlimited ? I am gonna test it now. Just imagine: winxp-unlimited on qemu, and the the thin clients doing
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| 14:08 | rdp to that virtual server... hehe .
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| 14:13 | vagrantc:
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| 14:13 | bzr get http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/ltsp-directx
| |
| 14:13 | bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/features/ltsp-directx/
| |
| 14:14 | a
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| 14:49 | <sbalneav> Hmm, wonder if you can do a ?
| |
| 14:49 | in an initialized
| |
| 14:49 | , err, er
| |
| 14:49 | like sshcmd[] = {
| |
| 14:49 | ...
| |
| 14:50 | forwardx ? "-X" : " "
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| 14:50 | Guess I'll find out.
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| 15:51 | <bill_c> Whats the prefered version of Ubuntu to use with LTSP?
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> welllllll....
| |
| 15:51 | probably feisty 07.04
| |
| 15:52 | <bill_c> cool
| |
| 15:52 | <vagrantc> the version in the LTS release 06.06 is pretty outdated, and if it's a new install, no sense using 06.10
| |
| 15:52 | <bill_c> yeah wasn't sure if I should go LTS or current
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| 15:52 | cliebow_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:52 | <vagrantc> if you want features like local devices and sound, go with the more recent version
| |
| 15:53 | there's been numerous other improvements as well.
| |
| 15:53 | <Gadi> thats what Dell ships ;)
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> and if you want to be like dell, i guess, too.
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| 15:53 | <Gadi> btw, ogra, kudos on making the front page of dell.com
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| 15:54 | <cliebow_> ohhh?url?
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| 15:54 | <Gadi> dell.com
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| 15:54 | <cliebow_> heh
| |
| 15:55 | network works now that the grass is mowed..
| |
| 15:55 | * vagrantc wonders what kind of grass | |
| 15:56 | <cliebow_> ohhh i see right under this banner...
| |
| 15:56 | Dell recommends Windows Vista™ Home Premium.
| |
| 15:56 | not "now that the grass is "smoked"
| |
| 15:57 | <Gadi> ah, they changed the front page
| |
| 15:57 | yesterday it was all about ubuntu
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| 15:57 | <cliebow_> 8~)
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| 15:58 | i thought i was the one behind the times...
| |
| 15:59 | High Speed Wireless Internet for Midcoast Maine - FAQs
| |
| 15:59 | hoping to be warboating this summer
| |
| 16:03 | ma ybe it wasnt the grass..maybe it is becasue i threatened it with a serial modem
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| 17:00 | <ace_suares> dell.com/linux
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| 17:02 | <cliebow_> hmm
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| 17:05 | <str4nd> (old!)
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| 18:09 | <pablo_> ive installed thin client manager package but when i open it dosnt show any clients screen , do i need to configure something to make it work?
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| 19:03 | <ace_suares> ping sbalneav
| |
| 19:03 | !seen sbalneav
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| 19:03 | <ltspbot`> ace_suares: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 4 hours, 13 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <sbalneav> Guess I'll find out.
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| 19:04 | <ace_suares> would local devices work with qemu? It looks like a far stretch.
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| 19:15 | tessier_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 19:15 | <tessier_> hmm...did ltsp 5.0 just recently come out?
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| 19:15 | And is freenx integrated into ltsp yet?
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| 21:00 | <benplaut> I'm writing up a grant for a 60 computer lab... ~30 are going to be thin, and ~30 are going to be laptops. Can I get login to work for both systems assuming one server? For convenience sake, it would probably be k12ltsp
| |
| 21:01 | and the other Q... the thins are probably going to be donated, but for the sake of getting more money out of a grant, what's a prebuilt thin that can do PXE? I saw a demo using old machines and it was pretty incredible to see the diskless boot :P
| |
| 21:10 | <bill_c> www.disklessworkstations.com has several thin clients
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| 21:10 | and the nic's for turning old computer that can't pxe boot into thin clients
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| 21:11 | are the notebooks going to be used as thin clients, or used with an OS?
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| 21:11 | <benplaut> that's what i'm trying to figure out
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| 21:12 | those will be new systems with ample power... but i don't know if logins will work unless they are thin
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| 21:13 | <bill_c> you could always use samba as a pdc if they are going to be on windurs
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| 21:14 | <benplaut> ok
| |
| 21:14 | there wont be windows, but if it works... :P
| |
| 21:14 | i have no idea how user accounts over a network work in linux... i've been a single user for a long time
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| 21:15 | <bill_c> that's best, could use openldap, and configure the notebooks running linux to auth to the ldap server
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| 21:15 | ogra-classmate has quit IRC | |
| 21:15 | <benplaut> ok
| |
| 21:15 | and would they grab their own /home on login?
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| 21:15 | or would it all be hacked together with scripts?
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| 21:16 | also, what's the preference between PXE and etherboot? clients are available for both
| |
| 21:17 | <bill_c> you could mount /home wth nfs, or use pam_mount
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| 21:18 | pxe is prolly the way to go if they offer both
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| 21:19 | <benplaut> ok
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| 21:55 | <sahil> benplaut: you around?
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| 21:55 | <benplaut> yup
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| 21:55 | <sahil> there are these eway clients im using
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| 21:55 | which are $99
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| 21:55 | they're amazing
| |
| 21:56 | well i havn't gotten graphics other than vesa to work yet but im confident they will
| |
| 21:56 | let me grab you a link
| |
| 21:56 | <benplaut> eh
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| 21:56 | not really concerned with pricing... ease it better :P
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| 21:56 | <sahil> eh?
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| 21:56 | <benplaut> we probably won't even end up getting the money
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| 21:57 | <sahil> where are you setting up the lab?
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| 21:57 | or where do you want to set up the lab rather
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| 22:01 | FuHvIo_FBI has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:03 | <sahil> benplaut: the reason i ask is i might be able to donate some hardware
| |
| 22:03 | <benplaut> hawaii... :P
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| 22:03 | <sahil> i meant the scenario
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| 22:03 | school...ctc
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| 22:03 | <benplaut> high school
| |
| 22:03 | <sahil> public?
| |
| 22:03 | <benplaut> i've got donations on hold... the local university is junking them because they can't find anyone to take the donations
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| 22:04 | yea, public
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| 22:41 | <wyrm> hi, who can help me with the tftpboot because this don't charge in the terminals...
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| 22:44 | quien podría ayudarme, tengo un mal inglés...
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| 22:44 | tengo problemas en las terminales, quedan pidiendoe le archivo de tftp vmlinuz-2,6,16-ltsp-2
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| 22:44 | y no hace nada más....
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| 22:45 | está instalado en un Debian 4.0 de 32bits
| |
| 22:45 | con ltspacfg
| |
| 22:56 | bye
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