IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 8 July 2008 (all times are UTC)

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00:08	<daduke> vagrantc: greetings to you.
00:09	* vagrantc waves
00:09	<vagrantc> can't seem to stay connected today
00:10	<daduke> vagrantc: you don't have to. I'm just saying hi.
00:28	<vagrantc> daduke: well, howdy :)
00:29	it's not a matter of obligation, but it's been a frustrating day :)
00:31	<daduke> what can we do to cheer you up?
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04:59	<LTSPTNK> Anyone here who has done Ldap or AD authentication for the LTSP envinroment?
05:02	<daduke> LTSPTNK: we do LDAP here.
05:03	<LTSPTNK> ok sounds good :)
05:03	<daduke> LTSPTNK: and works even better ;)
05:03	<LTSPTNK> U have prolly recognized that the users need to be part of some system groups, for example "fuse" to get hings work well
05:03	how it is done in your envinroment?
05:04	(and propably would be great if the admins belong to sudo groups etc so U dont need to give each admin privileges in every machine etc.)
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05:04	<vpxavier> hello everyone
05:06	<LTSPTNK> is there some solid way to put all the users part of "fuse" group in ldap, or is it done with some trick in LTSP server?
05:08	<daduke> LTSPTNK: that's exactly the problem I had to solve too. One way would be to create the fuse group in LDAP. In the end we decided to just chmod 777 /dev/fuse on the terminal server. Not the best solution, but it works for us.
05:09	<LTSPTNK> I have tried something like that too
05:09	<daduke> LTSPTNK: our admins are local on the servers and not part of the LTSP setup
05:09	<LTSPTNK> I created "fuse" into Active Directory but it got id over 30000000 and it didnt work
05:10	and I tryed to make the /dev/fuse to work on any other group (for example "domain^users" but didnt help either)
05:10	<vpxavier> could someone help me? I have done ltsp-build-client on a ubuntu 8.04 alternate server, then I did "sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386" and "apt-get install xorg bdm". Then the client can boot but I receive the following message before login: "There was an error loading the theme Human"
05:10	<LTSPTNK> so chmodding it to 777 makes it work for everyone?
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05:11	<daduke> LTSPTNK: we do modprobe fuse && chmod o+rw /dev/fuse in /etc/rc.local
05:12	<ogra> in ubuntu you would need to modify the udev rules for that
05:12	<LTSPTNK> how do i do that?
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05:13	<ogra> in /etc/udev/rules.d/45-fuse.rules replace GROUP with the wanted MODE statement
05:14	<LTSPTNK> seems fair enough :)
05:14	daduke, why dont just pernanently mod it?
05:15	<daduke> LTSPTNK: it doesn't survive a reboot
05:15	<ogra> debian works differently wrt fuse
05:15	totally different ... sadly
05:16	<LTSPTNK> but if u put there an AD group, would it work?
05:16	no other way than to test it up :D
05:17	<vpxavier> noone can help me?
05:17	<daduke> LTSPTNK: I guess it should but we haven't tried
05:17	<LTSPTNK> (I propably asked this before) can I manually reboot the fuse without rebooting whole thingie, or do I even need to?
05:18	<daduke> LTSPTNK: ?? reboot what without whom?
05:18	<LTSPTNK> the fuse daemon, does it even have one or does it fire only when there is need for it?
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05:19	<LTSPTNK> I mean same way when u hassle with dhcpd.conf or smb.conf etc, u need to reboot the services / daemons
05:19	<ogra> fuse is a module
05:19	if you modified the udev rule, just rmmod fuse and modprobe fuse should be enough
05:23	<LTSPTNK> administrator@ltsp1:~$ sudo rmmod fuse
05:23	ERROR: Module fuse is in use
05:24	<ogra> well, find out by what ad unload that as well
05:24	or reboot :)
05:24	<LTSPTNK> faster and easier :)
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05:28	<vpxavier> @all: I've found my error... needed to instal ubuntu-artwork also
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05:28	<daduke> LTSPTNK: welcome back ;)
05:31	<LTSPTNK> atleast this doesnt work (the group thingie)
05:32	another question
05:32	why the domain user cant even see the media while it is plugged into server
05:33	"You dont have permission to wiew content of "Disk""
05:34	and then it says something about having no rights to mount the disk :D
05:49	<vpxavier> to create a user for thin clients, and define its home directory, how to do it? thanks
05:53	<LTSPTNK> daduke: is the 777 mode allow all?
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05:59	<LTSPTNK> what the hell???
06:00	I still can't use the fuse on any other user than the local one
06:02	i have MODE=777 in the udev rules
06:02	or should it be in some other format?
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06:03	<daduke> LTSPTNK: I haven't used it with udev, but 777 is full access to everyone.
06:03	<vpxavier> I created a user using userdadd command but it can't log to clients... can you help?
06:04	After useradd, I changed the password, and did "sudo ltsp-update-kernels" and "sudo "ltsp-update-sshkeys"
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06:06	<wigwam> hello
06:06	<LTSPTNK> ogra: why the udev rules didnt make any difference?
06:07	how should I type the rules there?
06:07	<wigwam> where can i find some complex ltsp documentation please?
06:07	<ogra> did you use MODE="0777" ?
06:07	<LTSPTNK> no :D
06:07	<wigwam> it works well, but i don't have an idea how :)
06:07	<LTSPTNK> I thought that it was just something like that
06:07	<ogra> and does /dev/fuse now have other permissions than before ?
06:07	<LTSPTNK> i used MODE="777"
06:07	:D
06:08	<vpxavier> ...ok, sounds like nobody knows how to create a user here for ltsp here :( I wish you a nice day
06:08	<ogra> vpxavier, you dont create any users in the chroot
06:09	<LTSPTNK> but the permissions seems to be right, atleast it says that it is owned by root r/w, then group root has r/w and everyone else has r/w
06:09	<vpxavier> i did not do it in chroot
06:09	should I?
06:09	(thanks ogra)
06:09	<ogra> no, you should do it on the server, use the gui tool
06:10	<vpxavier> I don't have one, I'm on an alternate server
06:10	<ogra> LTSPTNK, then it worked with your 777
06:10	<vpxavier> only command lines
06:10	<ogra> ??
06:10	whats an alternate server
06:10	there is only desktop-alternate or -server
06:10	<vpxavier> I installed Ubuntu 8.04 alternate server
06:10	<LTSPTNK> but the domain users cant still use the usb storage :D
06:10	<ogra> well, that doesnt work ...
06:10	<vpxavier> means server without GUI
06:11	less disk space and ressources
06:11	<ogra> right, ldm needs a desktop session to run on the server
06:11	<wigwam> ogra: is there any ltsp documentation somwhere please?
06:11	<vpxavier> the clients are booting and I can see the login script
06:11	<ogra> unless you use the webkiosk mode which sets up the one and only kiosk user during client build
06:11	<vpxavier> login request (not script)
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06:12	<ogra> wigwam, depends, the old unmaintained ltsp 4.x is documented on ltsp.org ... for ltsp5 the best you can get might be http://doc.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/edubuntu/handbook/C/
06:12	<vpxavier> I tried kiosk but I did not find how to set up a default home page and add software so, I'm now trying the full clients
06:13	<ogra> well, then you need a desktop
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06:14	<wigwam> ogra: thx
06:14	<vpxavier> well I installed xorg and bdm and I can see the "Human theme" so, It should work no? because I already have a server running dns, lamp and asterisk
06:15	<ogra> whats bdm ?
06:15	<vpxavier> I saw it was needed to have a the thin client running, i think it is a part of the desktop
06:15	<LTSPTNK> ogra, does the usb storage need anything else than the working fuse / udev rules?
06:15	<Q-FUNK> bsdm?
06:16	<vpxavier> I don't want the desktop because it install too much things I dont need
06:16	<LTSPTNK> b/c this is not working for real
06:16	<ogra> no
06:17	<LTSPTNK> what about user that is not part of any usergroup?
06:17	<vpxavier> I will ask this another way, 2 months I'm looking for this and still not found someone who could answer me for sure: Is it possible to have Ubuntu 8.04 alternate server running
06:18	1)LTSP server
06:18	2) clients logging automatically depending on ip address or mac address
06:19	3) launch firefox automatically with a custom default home page (better: different home page base on user who logs in)
06:19	<laga> i think you asked these before and got an answer for 3) at least.
06:19	<vpxavier> 4) install ONLY the software I need like firefox, ekiga, mp3 player, movie player
06:20	5) screensaver based on pictures located on a file server
06:21	this is very easy to explain, I can do it with windows and thought Ubuntu could do this too with ltsp
06:23	6) disable all the menu and settings for users (only run installed apps)
06:24	@laga: no solution worked
06:24	<laga> it'd be good if you aked about the problems you were having with those suggestions
06:26	<vpxavier> simple, for 3) the solutions given were for kiosk and ask me to modify a file then update image. Did not work and kiosk doesnt allow other requested features
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06:27	<laga> for 4), you can modify the kiosk mode plugin or just install those apps later in the image
06:28	for 2), you don't really need "logging" in with kiosk mode - unless you want to impose some access restrictions to file shares. but that can probably be done with NFS and its IP-based access control (which is not really secure, though)
06:28	5) should be easy
06:29	6) should be doable with a good window manager/desktop environment
06:30	<vpxavier> dont take the following as bad: everyone says it is possible, but nobody could tell me how at the moment. Is ther a place where I could find all of this explained?
06:31	<laga> i'm not sure, there might be bits and pieces in the ubuntu wiki. some things you'll have to work out yourself.
06:31	i think that the mythbuntu diskless plugin can almost do what you want.
06:31	<ogra> you are doing a very non standard kiosk setup there ...
06:31	<vpxavier> Kiosk is nice for autologin and disabling menus, but I couldnt change the default page, and could install anything else (or it installed but is not launched...)
06:32	<laga> your clients will boot off the server, and every client has its own "overlay" directory on the server where it saves its settings.
06:32	vpxavier: yeah, you need to fix that then. :)
06:32	<ogra> (you could just take a normal ubuntu account, change all you want in firefox and copy the firefox profile to the kiosk user in the chroot)
06:32	<vpxavier> @ogra: nobody ever asked to install just the software he needs? and to set a default and different home page for each user?
06:34	I'll explain: I'm working on a new home and building automation system controlled by a web page.
06:35	We will install wall mounted touch screens with thin clients
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06:35	<vpxavier> and we need a web browser to run automatically with this pages.
06:36	added to this, I need an SIP softphone and the other features I explain just before
06:36	Do you think LTSP is the good tool or not?
06:36	<laga> that's not a typical setup so you'll have to do some customization. i don't understand where the problem is with that - there is no 'one size fits all' solution :) i think vagrantc explained last time how to fake different homepages with some php code
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06:37	<LTSPTNK> fucking fuse, gonna figur someway to work around
06:37	like doing fatclients prolly?
06:37	<laga> i can offer the mythbuntu diskless plugin. it's basically a kiosk mode which can store different settings for each box.
06:37	<vpxavier> this is correct for the home page... I could do a php trick to charge a different page for each ip address
06:38	and I'm not having any problem at all Laga, just asking noobs questions
06:39	I don't car about doing customization but I can't find a place on earth where to find How
06:39	<ogra> well, take a normal ubuntu desktop, set up FF as you like it and copy the profile
06:39	<vpxavier> I even started a page to explain how to do what I want from scratch to share kwoledge
06:40	knowledge sorry
06:41	ogra: then it will not be locked like in kiosk?
06:42	<LTSPTNK> administrator@ltsp1:~$ ls -l /dev/fuse
06:42	crwxrwxrwx 1 root fuse 10, 229 2008-07-08 14:11 /dev/fuse
06:42	<vpxavier> isn't there a file with something like "homepage:http://url-to-the-default-homepage"?
06:42	<LTSPTNK> ogra, is that right?^
06:42	<vpxavier> for kiosk client
06:43	<ogra> LTSPTNK, a security hole ... but it does what you told it with the 777
06:43	(making it rwx for everyone)
06:44	<vpxavier> I saw mythtv... it might be a clue...
06:44	<LTSPTNK> makes a big sec hole to my system and doesnt even make it work
06:44	:D
06:44	i think it is time to call it a day, i didnt avan keep lunch hour today b/c I was sure that today it should work
06:44	^^ would
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06:48	<vpxavier> I will then try MythTV diskless which might be better for me than LTSP
06:49	thanks for your all
06:49	thanks for your help, all
06:49	bye
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06:52	<LTSPTNK> fucking fuse
06:52	how this is possible :D:D:D:DD
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07:04	<laga> i should have told him how to customize it. oh well
07:04	<ogra> yeah, he will ave the same situation he had with kiosk
07:04	<laga> i guess he will have to invest some wpork :)
07:04	afk
07:05	<ogra> yeah
07:05	on both cases :)
07:05	*in
07:08	<LTSPTNK> ogra
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07:08	<LTSPTNK> I may have run into somekind of pug or tricky thingie
07:08	I (with my domain user) own the /dev/fuse
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07:09	<ogra> well, it worked with a non AD user, right ?
07:09	<LTSPTNK> I can do what ever I want for it, but I still cant get my USB storage device to work
07:09	<ogra> we ested that iirc
07:09	*tested
07:09	<LTSPTNK> yeah, it worked, so propably needs membership of some else group too
07:09	<ogra> it shouldnt
07:09	<LTSPTNK> or valid Unix UID or something else
07:10	because my domain user has all the rights over fuse but none to everywhere else
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07:17	<LTSPTNK> little more testing gave me a nice test result
07:17	I have AD group callled "admin"
07:17	but that doesnt grant me sudo rights
07:18	but when I add line to sudoers file:
07:18	%domain^admins ALL=(ALL) ALL
07:18	then I have the sudo rights with my domain user
07:19	so afaik, domain groups are valid unix groups ass well, as far as they dont collapse with Unix system groups
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07:20	<LTSPTNK> so, to udev rules if I use group named "domain^users" everything should be okay, but then we hit the problem that there is something else going on as well as the fuse permission problem
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07:28	<wigwam> please, how to specify, what windows host to connect to
07:28	if using SCREEN_xx=rdesktop
07:29	?
07:29	<ogra> RDP_SERVER
07:29	and RDP_OPTIONS afaik
07:30	<daduke> wigwam: RDP_OPTIONS = "-x l -r sound:local -r disk:usbstick=/var/run/drives -g 1280x1024"
07:30	wigwam: works for us
07:30	wigwam: still playing with local USB devices tho..
07:32	<ogra> LTSPTNK, try changing /bin/fusermount as well and see if that heps
07:32	*helps
07:35	<wigwam> daduke: thx a lot
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07:35	<wigwam> ogra: thx a lot
07:35	:)
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07:37	<daduke> wigwam: sure thing. One more hint: in case you're using Windows 2008 server and etch, you'll need to use a newer version of rdesktop since the stock debian one doesn't support the new protocol version.
07:38	<ogra> daduke, cant vagrant put smething in backports for it ? i really doubt many people use a straight etch
07:38	<daduke> ogra: dunno, we're using our own backport.
07:39	<ogra> well, i assume even with the backported ltsp packages the client tree will be built from etch
07:39	<daduke> ogra: we'd be happy to provide it of course. Are there any plans for a better rdesktop support? Gadi mentioned the hackfest...
07:39	<ogra> which will surely pull rdesktop in an ancient version in
07:40	<wigwam> daduke: thanks
07:40	<ogra> well, with hardy i added rdesktop as default package to the clien env
07:40	<wigwam> i'm using newest ubuntu
07:40	<ogra> i think vagrant refrained from that in debian
07:40	<wigwam> hope it will work
07:40	<daduke> ogra: sure, but he could put the backported rdesktop into his repo
07:40	<ogra> right
07:40	but you will still have to put it manually into the chroot
07:41	i know Gadi has a lot of hack for rdesktop and i'll happily include them in 8.10
07:41	<daduke> ogra: do I? Can't remember having had to install it myself...
07:41	<ogra> but i'm not sure thats desired upstream
07:41	or in debian
07:43	<daduke> ogra: I talked to him yesterday about some logon screen timeout issue that restarts rdesktop/X every 30 s, but I've been able to come up with a wrapper that takes care of that. Might also help other ppl...
07:44	<ogra> yeah
07:44	i wouldnt even know if that bug shows up in ubuntu at all
07:44	i dont have any win machnes to connect to
07:44	<daduke> ogra: lucky you.
07:44	ogra: it's an Server 2008 issue, hence my guess would be yes
07:44	<ogra> the pleasure of working from home ... you select your HW but never actually stop working :P
07:45	s/HW/HW and SW
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07:49	<daduke> ogra: the pleasure of working for an institution that uses the right HW + SW ;)
07:50	<ogra> right, that as well
07:50	:)
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07:52	<hallmant> Hi everyone. I'm using LTSP 5 and having a problem that may or may not be related :) It's this: seemingly randomly while working on a thin client, users suddenly cannot start new GUI programs. Existing programs run fine, but new ones can't be started from the Gnome menu or from the command line. Usually the error says something similar to "cannot open display: localhost:13.0".
07:52	The only solution seems to be to log out and back in - which is of course a pain
07:52	(And it's actually happening to me right now, so I figured I'd try to nip this in the bud once and for all.)
07:53	Any ideas?
07:53	<ogra> wht distro ... do you use an lts.conf, if so, what are the values there ?
07:53	!pastebot
07:53	<ltspbot> ogra: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
07:53	<hallmant> It's Ubuntu Hardy
07:53	<ogra> hmm
07:54	* ogra hasnt seen such errors yet
07:54	<hallmant> Bummer :-/
07:54	<ogra> upgraded or fresh install ?
07:54	<hallmant> Fresh
07:55	We tried using and not using LDM_DIRECTX, but that doesn't seem to matter
07:55	<ogra> cannot open display: localhost:13.0 indicates that you dont use directx atm
07:56	thats the ssh X proxy
07:56	(localhost:something)
07:56	<hallmant> oh ok
07:57	Now one thing worth noting is that most (or perhaps all? I'll have to verify) of the time this happens to people using dual monitors
07:58	<ogra> always if you open soemthing on a specifc monitor ?
07:58	<hallmant> I don't think so... (how do I open something on a specific monitor?)
07:59	<ogra> no idea, i use laptops or single monitor thin clients :)
07:59	i would assume the second monitor runs on its own DISPLAY
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07:59	<ogra> which might caue the issue ...
07:59	rene is now known as moldy
08:00	<moldy> hi
08:00	<ogra> do you use custom xorg configs for these clients ?
08:00	<moldy> my client boots and shows the graphical login prompt. when i try to login, it says "validating password, please wait" forever and then restarts the login manager. any ideas?
08:00	<ogra> moldy, which distro ?
08:00	<moldy> ogra: ubuntu
08:01	<ogra> did you apply the security update for openssh recently ?
08:01	<moldy> (7.10)
08:01	ogra: yes, i did
08:01	<ogra> aha :)
08:01	<hallmant> ogra: I just asked around, and it seems that most of the problems happen to people on two monitors. (But some with two say they've had no problems.) And yes, we use custom xorg configs for the dual monitor setups
08:01	<ogra> moldy, sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys && sudo ltsp-update-image
08:02	<moldy> ogra: ah, i need to rebuild the ssh keys... thanks :)
08:02	<ogra> that should get you the login back
08:02	<moldy> ogra: thanks :)
08:02	<ogra> the openssh issue forced a rebuild of all keys, so they are out of sync
08:03	hallmant, can you check if the configs differ for the two that dont see the issue ?
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08:04	<hallmant> ogra: Sure thing. brb
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08:09	<hallmant> ogra: There are differences, since we use different monitors (some LCD, some CRT, sometimes two of the same, sometimes two different), but there don't seem to be correlations between those that do have this problem and those that don't. (Granted, perhaps they DO have the problem but just haven't experienced it yet.)
08:10	This is quite puzzling :-/
08:10	<ogra> yeah
08:11	my prob is that i (as he ubuntu ltsp dev) neither have clients nor other setups where i could test dual monitors
08:12	<hallmant> yeah...
08:12	<ogra> so all i could suggest for now is to file a bug and attach all possible files (~/.xsession-errors, lts.conf, xorg.conf for a user where it breaks etc)
08:12	<hallmant> k
08:12	Will do.
08:12	<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp
08:12	or better: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug
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08:20	<vpxavier> re all...
08:21	installed from scratch an ltsp server with mythbuntu mode... the client boots but gets a pxe timout
08:21	the ufw firewall is not enabled
08:22	the exact message is PXE-E32: TFTP open timeout
08:24	<lejo_> ogra: would it be feasible to add a hook to the set_keyboard_layout in greet.c to enable Numlock?
08:25	ogra: now I have problems to enable my numlock (tried with numlockx, but is does not seem to be called)
08:26	<vpxavier> can anyone tell me how to get the client booting?
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08:29	<daduke> Gadi: greetings to you! After your 'ugly but works' comment yesterday I couldn't sleep all night and then had to write the rdesktop wrapper today.
08:29	<rjune_> !g
08:29	<ltspbot> rjune_: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:30	<Gadi> lol
08:30	* Gadi waves to daduke and rjune
08:30	<Gadi> daduke: the fun thing is, with a wrapper in GUI-space, you can do loads of fun things
08:30	<daduke> Gadi: it's dirt cheap, but in case somebody else should be interested: https://nic.phys.ethz.ch/readme/233 right in the middle
08:31	Gadi: that's kinda recursive, innit?
08:33	<Gadi> you dont need: . /usr/share/ltsp/screen-x-common
08:34	or this: RDP_OPTIONS=${RDP_OPTIONS:-"-f"}
08:34	:)
08:34	<vpxavier> nobody?
08:34	<Gadi> or this: PATH=/bin:$PATH; export PATH
08:34	:)
08:35	<daduke> Gadi: I know. kinda lazy on the d key here...
08:35	<Gadi> and it isnt recursive at all
08:35	recursion is when it calls itself
08:35	:)
08:35	<daduke> Gadi: I was talking about the fun thing thing...
08:35	<Gadi> ah
08:35	that is, indeed
08:35	<daduke> see?
08:36	<Gadi> now, you have a nice script you can extend to do lots of things
08:37	like provide more feedback to the user, implement rdp failover, ...
08:37	youve just extended your Jedi powers tenfold
08:38	<daduke> first I have to get our AD to sync to our OpenLDAP so that users can actually log in...
08:38	<Gadi> is this LTSP5?
08:38	<daduke> sure is
08:38	<Gadi> then, this does not work: -r disk:usbstick=/var/run/drives
08:38	<vpxavier> :S
08:39	<Gadi> :)
08:39	thats where you need my hackery
08:39	<daduke> that's what I already noticed, yeah
08:39	<Gadi> vpxavier: can u repeat the qu?
08:39	<daduke> to be found where?
08:39	<Gadi> hehe
08:39	more like when
08:39	at the end of the month
08:39	<daduke> I see
08:39	hackfest..
08:39	<vpxavier> thank you... I installed ltsp server with the mythbuntu optin
08:39	<Gadi> right
08:39	<vpxavier> option
08:40	<daduke> well I'll come back to this for sure
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08:40	<vpxavier> my client seems to begin the boot but it hangs with PXE timout
08:40	<Gadi> daduke: the key is you need a client-side automounter
08:40	I implement it using a client-side ltspfs
08:41	but that takes some trickery
08:41	<vpxavier> the error is : PXE-E32: TFTP timeout
08:41	how to solve this?
08:41	<Gadi> vpxavier: http://www.bootix.com/support/problems_solutions/pxe_e32_tftp_open_timeout.html
08:41	<daduke> Gadi: we better start bribing vagrantc right now...
08:42	<Gadi> heh
08:42	vpxavier: did you do something silly like modify your inetd.conf, install xinetd, or install tftpd as a service?
08:42	<vpxavier> no
08:43	<Gadi> make sure xinetd is nott installed on the server: dpkg -l\|grep xinetd
08:44	then, make sure tftp is in your inetd.conf: grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
08:45	<vpxavier> no result
08:45	<Gadi> for which?
08:45	<vpxavier> dpkg
08:45	<Gadi> good
08:45	what about the next one?
08:46	<vpxavier> the same
08:46	<Gadi> ah, sounds like you don't have tftpd installed
08:46	<rjune_> Gadi: what's new?
08:46	<vpxavier> it should?
08:46	<Gadi> sudo apt-get install tftpd-hpa
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08:47	<Gadi> rjune_: not much
08:47	doing my morning #ltsp exercises
08:47	:)
08:47	<rjune_> Gadi: pm?
08:48	<vpxavier> tftpd is already the newest version
08:48	tftpd-ha set to manually installed
08:48	<Gadi> vpxavier: did you install ltsp-server or ltsp-server-standalone?
08:48	<vpxavier> hpa
08:49	sudo apt-get install mythbuntu-diskless-server-standalone
08:49	<Gadi> ah
08:49	sudo dpkg-reconfigure tftpd-hpa
08:49	<vpxavier> it is under virtualbox
08:50	should I answer YES or NO?
08:50	<Gadi> whats the qu?
08:50	<vpxavier> to "should the server be started by inetd"
08:50	<Gadi> yes
08:51	<vpxavier> done
08:51	<Gadi> now: grep tftp /etc/inetd.conf
08:52	<vpxavier> does nothing
08:52	<Gadi> ?
08:52	thats weird
08:52	<vpxavier> it accepts the command with no error but no result either
08:53	<Gadi> well, there's your problem
08:53	it should reconfig
08:53	1 sec - ph call
08:53	<wigwam> I have a problem: on some clients booting of client image crashes .. after first splash screen (the second is not loaded). Last messages in first console are ACPI warning and some NIC properties. Any ideas please?
08:53	some clients work fine
08:53	<vpxavier> ok gadi, thanks already... I'm waiting
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08:56	<Gadi> vpxavier: add this to the end of /etc/inetd.conf:
08:56	<jammcq> g'morning folks
08:56	<Gadi> tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
08:56	then, restart the sevice
08:56	(/etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd restart)
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08:58	<Gadi> wigwam: can you give a bit more info as to the last messages you see?
08:58	* Gadi waves to jammcq
08:58	<vpxavier> @jammcq: good afternoon
09:00	when i do tftp (enter) then dgram (enter) it says ?invalid command
09:00	<wigwam> Gadi: what for information?
09:01	<vpxavier> gadi: I followed this url to install everything:
09:01	<Gadi> wigwam: by NIC properties, do you mean IP address and such?
09:01	<vpxavier> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV/Install/Hardy/Diskless
09:02	<Gadi> vpxavier: that's not a command
09:02	vpxavier: add this to the end of /etc/inetd.conf:
09:02	tftp dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd -s /var/lib/tftpboot
09:02	(/etc/init.d/openbsd-inetd restart)
09:02	so, just add that line to the end of the file
09:02	and save it
09:02	and then restart the service
09:05	<vpxavier> restart ok
09:05	it boots
09:06	thanks a lot gadi
09:06	<wigwam> Gadi: IP-Config: eth0 hardware address ... mtu 1500 DHCP RARP
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09:17	<Gadi> wigwam: do the clients have more than one NIC?
09:18	<wigwam> no
09:18	for me is confusing that there is no error message
09:20	this is just informational msg... it appears also on working clients
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09:23	<Gadi> right, that will be the last message you see if your image does not have a module for that NIC
09:23	what type of NIC is it?
09:23	<wigwam> ethernet 100BaseTX, some realtek
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09:24	<wigwam> thanks for advise, i will try to find out difference in NICs between working and non-working clients
09:25	<Gadi> np
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09:29	<vpxavier> now my client boots but can't log in :(((
09:36	<Gadi> vpxavier: what message do you get?
09:36	<vpxavier> veriying password, please wait...
09:37	after a while, black screen then log in window again
09:37	<Gadi> take a look at the user's .xsession-errors
09:37	file
09:37	see if there are clues
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09:38	<vpxavier> i'll try that
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09:39	<Nubae> vpxavier: I've had that a bunch of times, most common causes were wrong permissions of /tmp
09:39	or wrong permissions of /home/$userloggingin
09:39	<vpxavier> how did you change it?
09:39	thanks
09:40	<Nubae> sudo chown or chmod
09:40	<vpxavier> already
09:40	on the server?
09:40	<Nubae> yeah
09:41	<vpxavier> sudo chmod 777 /tmp ?
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09:44	<Gadi> no, /tmp should be 1777
09:44	<Nubae> and make it recursive
09:44	<Gadi> no
09:44	dont make that recursive!
09:44	<Nubae> no?
09:45	<Gadi> no no no
09:45	<Nubae> :-) ok why not?
09:45	<Gadi> first of all, that opens so many security holes, you wouldnt believe
09:45	heh
09:45	<Nubae> on tmp
09:46	<Gadi> second it is like shooting a fly with a shotgun
09:46	<vpxavier> sorry guys... I quit... I think LTSP is too difficult to setup and customize at the moment... I want to thank you very much for your help but I tried this for a while and the only thing I could get running is kiosk without any customization... Even you, in the support, have difficulties to give me a total documentation...
09:46	<Nubae> ok, I have a tendency to do that :-/
09:46	<vpxavier> I'm not angry at all
09:46	but this is too much for me
09:46	* Gadi is unfamiliar with mythbuntu
09:46	<Gadi> in particular
09:46	<Nubae> its not mythbuntu
09:46	<Gadi> it sounds like they have some package problems
09:46	<Nubae> hes doing a kiosk install
09:47	<vpxavier> no I quit kiosk and tried mythbuntu
09:47	<Nubae> oh
09:47	why?
09:47	<vpxavier> because kiosk is not easy to customize
09:47	<Nubae> why didnt you try workstation then...
09:47	well, its the same really...
09:48	<vpxavier> I'm gonna search for a complete documentation or book in stead of making you and I losing time
09:48	<Nubae> vpxavier: unfortunately there is very little
09:48	and no books that I am aware of on LTSP5
09:48	<vpxavier> because I want to install this on an already installed server running asterisk, lamp,...
09:48	<Nubae> keep at it...
09:48	Subhodip has quit IRC
09:49	<Nubae> its frustrating, but rewarding when u get everything working
09:49	<vpxavier> I couldnt for days and days
09:49	<Nubae> you'll have a skill set that few people have
09:49	<wigwam> Gadi: you were right, rtl 8139 seems to be unsupported
09:49	<Nubae> and u'll get all the ladies...
09:49	;-)
09:50	<vpxavier> My first goal was to have a different home page for kiosk users and even this is not easy
09:50	<Gadi> wigwam: I would have thought that one to be more common. In any event, you could either try a newer kernel, or try compiling the driver for the kernel you have and updating the initramfs
09:50	<vpxavier> just because I'm using an alternate server in stead of the alternate desktop?
09:51	<Nubae> hmmm... what about doing a regular install and using sabayon and pessulus to lockdown
09:51	<wigwam> Gadi: yes, i have to find out how to compile kernel of client
09:51	but the module seems to be there, hmmm
09:51	<Nubae> setting homepage I recall being very easy though
09:51	<vpxavier> I didn't try this, I don't even know what it is...
09:51	<wigwam> i will try to specify it in lts.conf
09:51	manually
09:51	<Gadi> wigwam: try adding NIC=rtl8139
09:52	<vpxavier> is it possible from an alternate server or do I have to install desktop?
09:52	<Gadi> to your pxelinux.cfg/default file
09:52	as a kernel argument
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09:52	<Nubae> vpxavier: I would stick to the kiosk installation and if all u need is custom webpage
09:52	<vpxavier> it is not
09:52	I would need an SIP phone and mediaplayer also
09:53	<Gadi> wigwam: actually, NIC=8139cp
09:53	or NIC=8139too
09:53	<wigwam> jj, i see
09:53	<Gadi> (whichever it uses)
09:53	<wigwam> thx
09:54	<Nubae> wait.. then u should be using the --workstation plugin
09:54	<wigwam> is there any complete documentation of lts.conf?
09:54	<Gadi> if that works, you need to not keep it in pxelinux.cfg/default
09:54	<Nubae> the workstation plugin creates a local setup
09:54	<Gadi> but cp default 01-aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff (where MAC address of client is AA:BB:CC:DD:EE:FF)
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09:55	<Nubae> or... u can try working from your kiosk install, chroot in and install mediaplayer and sip phone
09:55	you'll have to start up the mediaplayer and phone from the webbrowser though
09:55	<vpxavier> I tried this... I couldnt install ekiga
09:56	<Nubae> y, what happened?
09:56	<vpxavier> errors about dependencies I couldnt resolve
09:56	<Nubae> ah...
09:56	that is common error due to not mounting proc
09:56	sudo mount /proc -t /proc
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09:56	<vpxavier> what do you mean?
09:57	I 'll try
09:57	<Nubae> and sudo mount /sys -t sysfs /sys
09:57	inside the chroot
09:57	then do the install
09:57	<vpxavier> ok, you do want me to go back to windows then ;o) , I'll try this right now
09:58	<Nubae> the more people I can save from going back to windows, the better I feel... so don't give up!
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09:59	<vpxavier> I must say that the most difficult part is to find a complete documentation.. I promess I will do one if I can get it working but it makes me lose my head
09:59	<wigwam> Gadi: it's possible to specify module to be loaded in pxelinux.cfg/default?
09:59	<Nubae> vpxavier: there is non... its what needs most work... the problem is people involved with ltsp development are really busy
10:00	and right now there is no central documentation repo for it
10:00	<vpxavier> ok I'll try
10:00	<Nubae> the best we can do is look at the handbook, and start adpating to current situation...
10:00	<vpxavier> if I succeed... to document this as well as I can
10:02	<ogra> laga, didnt i include https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/190016 ?
10:02	(one or the other way ... i just saw the bug is still open)
10:04	ah, no ...
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10:09	<Gadi> wigwam: you need to for that NIC - you have to pass it as a kernel argument
10:09	otherwise the initramfs won't pick it up
10:09	actually, wait
10:09	<delly84> Nubae, xpxavier: isn't the proc mount command 'sudo mount /proc -t proc /proc'?
10:09	<Gadi> do this instead:
10:10	wigwam: echo "8139too" >> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/modules
10:10	<vpxavier> I'll try ;)
10:10	<delly84> or does it matter?
10:10	<Gadi> wigwam: echo "8139cp" >> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/initramfs-tools/modules
10:10	wigwam: sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u
10:11	<Nubae> delly84: oops yes you are right
10:11	<Gadi> wigwam: sudo ltsp-update-kernels
10:11	<Nubae> forgot a proc in there
10:11	<epoxy\|w3rk> hey.. i've never had a problem installing ltsp on my workstation, but i wrote a script to do everything on a barebones install.. buutt.. the cursor pops up on the client and it just keeps trying to load ldm i guess. what else has to be installed on the server? I did notice Xorg was not even on the server.. so i put that on there, correct?
10:14	delly84, mount -t proc none /dir/to/ltsp/proc what you wanted?
10:17	<delly84> epoxy\|w3rk: basically, but why specify the device as none instead of proc?
10:18	<epoxy\|w3rk> The proc file system is not associated with a special device, and when
10:18	mounting it, an arbitrary keyword, such as proc can be used instead of
10:18	a device specification. (The customary choice none is less fortunate:
10:18	the error message ‘none busy’ from umount can be confusing.)
10:18	from the mount man page.
10:19	so i guess it doesnt matter? not sure.. that's what i use though :)
10:20	<Nubae> regardless... what vpxavier need is sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 mount /proc -t proc /proc
10:20	<vpxavier> thanks
10:21	<wigwam> Gadi: thanks a lot
10:21	but it doesn't work :(
10:22	<vpxavier> what does this command do exactly?
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10:26	<delly84> from the mount man page
10:26	The standard form of the mount command, is: 'mount -t type device dir'. This tells the kernel to attach the file system found on device (which is of type type) at the directory dir. The previous contents (if any) and owner and mode of dir become invisible, and as long as this file system remains mounted, the pathname dir refers to the root of the file system on device.
10:27	so it basically mounts the file system specified by type and device in the kernel at the directory
10:28	<vpxavier> ok ty
10:30	<Nubae> in practical terms, u need it to install packages without them complaining about unsolveable dependencies
10:31	<vpxavier> easier, thanks Nubae ;o)
10:34	so, my kiosk is up and running now... I 'll try installing ekiga ;)
10:36	no error message :)
10:37	sudo ltsp-update-image
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10:41	<vpxavier> it sounds like it is installed but I don't know how to launch it
10:41	<exodos> hi, we're facing wierd problem with our ltsp setup: when user clicks log out button all windows gets closed, but the screen stalls displaying desktop background
10:42	on the LTSP server i can see that there are still some proccess running: one of them is gnome-keyring-daemon (started with pam: we've copied /etc/pam.d gdm -> sshd)
10:42	if i kill gnome-keyring-daemon manually the whole session gets closed
10:43	is there a way to tell ldm to kill gnome-keyring-daemon on exit?
10:43	<Nubae> vpxavier: wait!
10:43	stop the update image
10:43	u must unmount proc
10:44	very important!
10:44	<ogra> Nubae, the script cares ...
10:45	<Nubae> ?
10:45	<ogra> (it should have told vpxavier that t unmounts proc)
10:45	<vpxavier> too late...
10:45	<Nubae> ahhh ok
10:45	<ogra> there is code in ltsp-update-image that checks for proc
10:45	<Nubae> changed behaviour
10:46	* ogra doesnt think so
10:46	<vpxavier> so no problem?
10:46	<Nubae> sure... I messed up my system several times not unmounting proc
10:46	but that was 2 releases ago I believe
10:46	<ogra> proc was always excluded from the mksquashfs command
10:46	sine the script exists ...
10:47	<Nubae> vpxavier: no problem ignore what I said
10:47	<vpxavier> ok
10:47	<ogra> we switched to unmunting from just making mksquashfs ignore it somewhere during gutsy development but that was before it was first released at all
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10:47	<vpxavier> do you know how to launch ekiga at boot now that is is installed?
10:47	<ogra> might be that you remember a pre release
10:48	add: ekiga &
10:48	<Nubae> ogra: I clearly remember it complaining seriously about being mounted
10:48	<ogra> to the .xsession file of the kiosk user
10:48	<vpxavier> :s
10:48	where you said? ;op
10:48	<Nubae> actually, u even told me to be careful about umounting proc, iirc ;-)
10:48	<ogra> the last line in that file must stay the last line though
10:48	so dont just add it at the end but insert it before
10:49	so that the last command persists (firefox by default)
10:49	<vpxavier> where is this .xsession file?
10:50	<Nubae> in ~
10:50	<ogra> on home/kiosk in the chroot
10:50	*in
10:51	<vpxavier> there is no file there
10:51	<ogra> mind the dot at the beginning ;)
10:51	ls wont show it
10:51	<exodos> where can i find piece of ldm code that is responsible of session cleanup?
10:51	<vpxavier> ls returns nothing in /home/kiosk
10:52	<ogra> exodos, ldm uses ssh ... ssh has to care for that on logout
10:52	<exodos> is there possibility to add something there?
10:52	<Nubae> vpxavier: do ls -la
10:52	<ogra> exodos, Gadi was working on an rc.d script for ldm to clean leftovers on new logins
10:53	<exodos> ogra: are you using gnome-keyring with your ltsp server?
10:53	<vpxavier> ok I see it
10:53	<ogra> no
10:53	<exodos> couse it is cousing problems for us
10:53	<vpxavier> but sudo vi .xsession is not working
10:53	without sudo sorry
10:53	<exodos> we're starting gnome-keyring-daemon from pam to unlock default keyring
10:53	<ogra> exodos, what kind of probs ?
10:54	and it persists after logout ?
10:54	<exodos> you cannot logout acctually
10:55	when you press log out button session hangs displaying desktop background
10:55	* ogra hasnt seen that before
10:56	<ogra> so you get the logout window and everything ?
10:56	<vpxavier> .xsession edited, exit, sudo ltsp-update-image
10:56	<exodos> to debug it I chacked which proccess of user are still running and one of them is gnome-keyring-daemon
10:56	when i kill gnome-keyring-daemon session cloeses nicely
10:56	ogra: yes i have log out window and i can click it
10:57	<ogra> and panels and desktop die after that ?
10:57	<exodos> yes
10:57	<ogra> did you try to add it to the session instead of sing pam ?
10:57	*using
10:57	<exodos> not yet
10:57	<ogra> sounds like a very unusual setup
10:58	<exodos> but as far i understand there is no point for it
10:58	<ogra> well, if yu add i to the session it will die with the session
10:58	<exodos> gnome-keyring-daemon unlock default keyring if it has the same passwd as login passwd, so it has to be started during authentication
10:59	if i will start it later i wont have access to user password
11:01	did i explained it clearly enough?
11:01	<vpxavier> GREAT!!! Ekiga launches in my kiosk...
11:02	now, I guess, my account settings should be saved in a file... or will they survive a reboot?
11:03	<ogra> unlikely, but dont ask me how ekiga stores account settings :)
11:03	<vpxavier> lol
11:03	ok
11:03	;)
11:04	then just one more thing... the default home page for firefox in kiosk
11:04	and a different user for each kiosk thin client
11:04	(it makes two things sorry)
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11:12	<moldy> how do i get at a shell on the client so i can debug the machine?
11:17	<Gadi> moldy: either add SCREEN_07 = ldm and SCREEN_02=shell to lts.conf
11:17	OR
11:17	sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd; sudo ltsp-update-image
11:17	and give root a password
11:18	and login on ctrl-alt-f1 as root
11:20	<ogra> you need to unock the pw first, else it keeps the expired flag
11:20	*unlock
11:20	<Nubae> ogra: noticed that... where is that done?
11:20	<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u; sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd; sudo ltsp-update-image
11:20	something like that
11:21	<Gadi> hmm - thats new as of hardy?
11:21	<ogra> no, it was like that in gutsy
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11:21	<Gadi> hmm... not as I recall
11:21	<Nubae> really? I hadnt noticed that
11:21	<Gadi> but, hey
11:21	<ogra> you might have noticed that i never advise setting a rootpw anyway :)
11:22	but the last time i used that (early gutsy) it was like that
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11:31	<vpxavier> where can i find a wiki on enabling audio devices for kiosks?
11:33	<Nubae> well, does flash audio work for you?
11:34	moldy has quit IRC
11:35	<vpxavier> ??? you mean going on a flash web site and listening to audio?
11:35	<Nubae> yeah
11:35	<vpxavier> in Ekiga, I see, no audio devices found
11:36	and flash is not installed yet... I'm looking for an installation guide for kiosks
11:37	apt-get install mozilla-plugin-gnash gnash ?
11:37	in chroot?
11:39	<ogra> or apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
11:40	<vpxavier> ok
11:40	<Nubae> and apt-get install libflashsupport
11:40	<vpxavier> I will go for free then ;)
11:40	<ogra> only if you use ulse
11:40	*pulse
11:40	<vpxavier> ?
11:40	<ogra> libflashsupport is useless otherwise
11:41	<vpxavier> ok
11:41	<Nubae> wouldnt u have to if u want audio on the thin clients via flash?
11:41	<ogra> not with alsa
11:41	<stgraber> Nubae: that's kiosk
11:41	<ogra> libflashsupport is a clutch to pulse
11:41	<vpxavier> I'm installing gnash and updating image
11:41	<stgraber> Nubae: things running on the thin client itself can access alsa directly, no need of pulse so no need of libflashsupport
11:41	<Nubae> ah right... this is local
11:41	<vpxavier> but I don't know what flash is concerned
11:42	client booting...
11:44	flash is working
11:44	just have to find a site with sound lol
11:45	<Nubae> try doommovie.com
11:46	<vpxavier> not working... I'll install the nonfree
11:47	<ogra> youtube.com ;)
11:47	video.google.com
11:50	<vpxavier> while waiting for image update.... just wanted to tell you that you rock! Thank you so much for spending time for me
11:50	<delly84> does anyone know how to find the run level that a client is starting up as? My client is hanging on "starting bluetooth services" and I don't have bluetooth so i just need to disable it. I think all I need to do is move the SBluetooth script to a KBluetooth script in a rc.d directory, but i am not sure which run level i am starting up as.
11:50	correct me if i'm wrong
11:52	<stgraber> update-rc.d -f bluetooth remove
11:53	<ogra> delly84, what are you doing there, there shouldnt be any bluetooth stuff by default on any client
11:53	<stgraber> is that fat client ?
11:53	<delly84> stgraber: yes i am trying to set up a fat client
11:54	needless to say, i have been running into several problems
11:54	<ogra> yeah
11:54	Nubae, has done that before ...
11:54	<stgraber> I have a ton of scripts to make fat client to work here :)
11:54	that line was actually copied from one of them :)
11:55	<delly84> stgraber: with edubuntu or with ubuntu
11:55	?
11:55	<ogra> thats the same :)
11:55	<vpxavier> flash working, sound KO
11:55	<delly84> ... true :)
11:55	<stgraber> I also disabled : rc.local, apport and pulseaudio (rc.local was buggy and had to be re-added, apport was useless and pulseaudio is already started by gnome)
11:56	<delly84> do you use gdm or ldm, and nfs or nbd?
11:56	<ogra> you would want to make sure readahead-list isnt there and also apparmor ...
11:56	on a fat client use gdm
11:57	and nbd saves you lots of bandwith if you use it with the squashfs image
11:57	<stgraber> I'm using a nbd image containing a standard Ubuntu desktop + some specific tools for that network
11:57	<Nubae> delly84: there is a wiki
11:57	<stgraber> only problem is that generating the fat client squashfs takes over 30 minutes :)
11:57	<delly84> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients ??
11:57	<Nubae> right
11:57	either use the plugin on there
11:57	or do it manually
11:58	<ogra> stgraber, if we ever do rea fat clients we'll do it with an overlay on a liveCD image :)
11:58	<Nubae> or use nfs
11:58	<ogra> so you dont need to regenerate the whole image all the time
11:58	nah
11:58	Subhodip has joined #ltsp
11:58	<Nubae> for development time, it makes sense
11:59	<ogra> nbd with the cow option makes sense :)
11:59	<Nubae> if its just a plugin doesnt matter that it takes time to build
11:59	<delly84> Nubae: yeah, i have been trying that, both with the plugin and without ... i got the light edubuntu working for a short time
11:59	<ogra> yu wont need to build anything ever with that
11:59	<Nubae> but when u keep changing the chroot every 2 minutes
11:59	<stgraber> ogra: well, I ended up testing with NFS then when it was good enough I generated the squashfs and used nbd :)
11:59	<ogra> yeah, but that was back when nbd didnt do cow
11:59	<Nubae> delly84: what problems did u get
11:59	start at the beginning and I should be able to guide u a bit
12:00	stgraber: right...
12:00	<ogra> today you can just run the nbd-server with the copy on write option and then mount the device locally ...
12:00	<Nubae> ogra: can u expand on that a bit?
12:00	<ogra> no need for rebuilds ;) changes are kept in the writable image
12:00	<stgraber> at the beginning I was only working like 5% of the time, the other 95% were apt or squashfs :) that's fine when you have side projects to work on but that's really bad when you have a close deadline :)
12:01	<ogra> yeah
12:01	<Nubae> writable image... ok how do we enable that?
12:01	<ogra> man nbd-server :)
12:01	look for -c
12:01	<Nubae> ok
12:02	<ogra> it creates a ext3fs image file and does all write operations to it
12:02	<delly84> Nubae: right now, i am getting a "nbd_server: Read failed: No route to host
12:02	<ogra> so you can make changes test ourt stuff etc ...
12:02	<Nubae> ogra: sounds perfect for development
12:03	<vpxavier> Nubae, ogra, Audio device still not detected/working
12:03	<ogra> right
12:03	<vpxavier> an idea?
12:03	<Nubae> vpxavier: when I did fat client, I used pulse
12:03	<ogra> you still need to build the new squashfs in the end, but thats only to finalize your work
12:03	<vpxavier> i use thin clients
12:03	<Nubae> well, the kiosk is a fat client
12:03	<ogra> well, kiosk is a very small fat client :)
12:04	<vpxavier> lol sory
12:04	<ogra> fat client defines that your apps all run locally
12:04	<Nubae> a diet fat client
12:04	;-)
12:04	<ogra> yeah
12:04	removed fat, added water :)
12:04	<Nubae> hehehe
12:04	<vpxavier> lol
12:04	<ogra> and double the price :)
12:05	<vpxavier> i think the problem is not the soft(drink) but the hardware not detected
12:05	<Nubae> delly84: the best thing you can do is start again, building with the --workstation plugin
12:05	<delly84> Nubae: on my client it hung on starting bluetooth, then went into an infinite error saying something about nbd ... sorry i couldn't read it
12:05	<vpxavier> as ekiga says
12:05	<Nubae> using --workstation?
12:06	<delly84> when i used the --workstation plugin i get an error saying something like ltsp build stopped abnormally... or something like that
12:06	this build is without the --workstation plugin
12:06	<Nubae> ok...
12:06	and u need bluetooth?
12:06	<delly84> no, i don't
12:06	<ogra> Nubae, ubuntu-desktop pulls it in
12:06	<Nubae> ok, remove it from the chroot
12:07	<delly84> with the update-rc.d -f bluetooth remove command?
12:07	in chroot?
12:07	<Nubae> infinite nbd error... sounds like connection is breaking
12:08	well, u could just apt-get remove it
12:09	vpxavier: ubuntu is pretty good at detecting all audio hardware... maybe check the net to see if your soundcard is supported
12:09	<delly84> in my server's /var/log/daemon.log it says "nbd_server: connect from ..." "nbd_server: size of exported file/device is ..." "nbd_server: read failed: no route to host"
12:09	<vpxavier> maybe due to virtualbox then
12:10	<delly84> so it connects, then breaks
12:10	<vpxavier> as it is a virtual environment I'm working on
12:11	<delly84> should i remove nfs-common from my client?
12:11	Pascal_1 has joined #ltsp
12:11	<delly84> i guess, i could build a new image with the --workstation plugin and give you the error i get
12:11	<Nubae> nfs causes those problems yes
12:11	<delly84> hmmm...
12:11	fcking nfs
12:12	<Nubae> to pinpoint the problem the only thing you can really do is build the fat client slowly... app by app
12:13	Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp
12:13	<Nubae> I dont recall ever seeing that error though
12:13	<delly84> instead of just building the client then apt-get install ubuntu-desktop?
12:13	<ogra> delly84, "nbd_server: read failed: no route to host" ? on the server ?
12:13	<delly84> yes
12:14	<ogra> that just tells you you rebooted the client
12:14	most likely
12:14	<Nubae> he says he sees it during the startup though
12:14	<ogra> try to run tail -f on the lofile
12:14	*logfile
12:14	to really make sure it happens during runing the client
12:15	<vpxavier> sounds like I have to enable sound in lts.conf?
12:15	<ogra> no
12:15	you dont want lts.conf on a kiosk
12:15	<Nubae> try doing it with pulse audio
12:15	<vpxavier> ...
12:15	<ogra> make your changes in the chroot
12:15	<vpxavier> i install pulse audio?
12:15	<ogra> it should be there already
12:16	<delly84> question, how long would it take a fat client, not on a diet, to boot up?
12:16	<Nubae> then apt-get install libflashsupport it wont hurt
12:16	delly84: slower than a thin client :-)
12:16	<vpxavier> libflash is installed
12:17	<Nubae> then its probably due to your virtual environment
12:17	<vpxavier> ok
12:17	<ogra> delly84, not longer than your server takes :)
12:17	<vpxavier> try the sound later then... and for the firefox home page?
12:17	<Nubae> vpxavier: search ubuntu set homepage firefox
12:18	lots of info out there on that
12:18	<vpxavier> but none worked...
12:18	i've seen a lot but all are differents
12:18	strange...
12:19	<Nubae> well u want to search for global setting homepage
12:19	not on a user basis
12:19	<vpxavier> maybe I didnt do in chroot... ill try
12:19	TheGuy has joined #ltsp
12:19	<ogra> you can either run firefox on a normal ubuntu, set the homepage and copy the profile after closinf ff or you should be able to set it in prefs.js in /etc/firefox
12:20	<Nubae> http://www.mozilla.org/unix/customizing.html
12:20	ubuntu gives that page in prefs.js
12:21	<delly84> ogra: which log file should i look at when i startup? how do i enable logging? where does startup information get stored when a client boots up?
12:21	<ogra> the logfile you see the error in indeed
12:22	(on the server)
12:22	<delly84> right, ok
12:23	<ogra> i dont think your nbd connection actually dies, i'd assume some initscript hangs
12:23	Pascal_1 has quit IRC
12:24	<ogra> you should disable the splashscreen while testing
12:24	<delly84> i did
12:24	ok, so where can all of that information get stored when the splashscreen is disabled?
12:25	<Nubae> ?
12:26	<delly84> sorry, so i disabled splash and quiet in /var/log/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/pxelinux.cfg/default
12:27	then i get a bunch of information on the client when it boots up ... can i save that information somewhere?
12:28	<ogra> not really
12:28	due to ubuntu using upstart there is no bootlogd or something
12:29	thats just in the works for next release
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12:29	<ogra> you can install sysklogd in the chroot, that should give you logging
12:29	at least from a certain point on
12:30	<Nubae> yeah check dmesg in the chroot
12:30	<ogra> but i'd suggest removing it later again, on a fat client it will just fil the ram
12:30	<delly84> ok, i'll try that
12:30	i will also tail dmesg, syslog and daemon.log when i boot the client
12:31	on the server
12:31	<Nubae> tailing dmesg on the server doesnt help
12:31	vagrantc has joined #ltsp
12:31	<ogra> vagrantc, !
12:31	!v
12:31	<ltspbot> ogra: Error: "v" is not a valid command.
12:31	<ogra> pfffft !°!
12:32	* vagrantc waves
12:32	<vpxavier> Home page set! had to do it in chroot...
12:32	<Nubae> right :-)
12:32	<delly84> dmesg in the chroot then?
12:33	<ogra> vagrantc, do we have any directions for hotel etc for the hackfest ?
12:33	<Nubae> first try and see what it says when it fails
12:33	<delly84> ok
12:33	<vpxavier> I'll make a howto
12:33	<vagrantc> ogra: not really yet ...
12:33	ogra: it's not close to any hotels in particular... close to some bus lines, though.
12:34	gentgeen__ has joined #ltsp
12:34	<TheGuy> Has anyone had any luck getting sound to work on an HP T5735 (HDA ATI SB) I have found that it uses snd-hda-intel by way of alsaconfig but LTSP 4.2 does not recognize this hardware
12:34	<Nubae> shift+pageup allows u to scroll up in the thin client terminal
12:34	<ogra> vagrantc, well, a rough advise would be nice i guess, no idea how/where jammcq Gadi or warren planned to stay
12:35	<warren> I'm staying with ERic
12:35	<ogra> ah
12:36	<vagrantc> ogra: anything on the 14, 4, 6 or 70 bus lines would work. anything within the free fare zone would be fairly easy to get to via a transfer.
12:36	<ogra> so freegeek lies in the free zone, right ?
12:37	<vagrantc> no, just a bit outside of it.
12:37	<vpxavier> something strange...
12:37	<ogra> Gadi, do you have any hotel plans already ?
12:37	jammcq, ^^^^^ same question
12:38	<Gadi> not yet - /me is looking for a couch somewhere on the street corner
12:38	<vagrantc> ogra: freegeek's address is 1731 se 10th (about 3 blocks south of se 10th & hawthorne (a.k.a. lucky lab))
12:38	<Gadi> :)
12:38	thanks, Google Maps street view!
12:38	<vpxavier> ekiga is installed... at first login, firfox launches, not ekiga. if I quit, firefox AND ekiga launch after the autologin
12:38	any idea why ekiga is not launched ath first login?
12:39	<ogra> i bet it is launched :)
12:39	chrisjrob has left #ltsp
12:39	<ogra> you just dont see it ...
12:39	did you try hitting alt-tab ?
12:39	<vpxavier> I did
12:40	it isnt launched
12:40	<warren> vagrantc: has eharrison been to freegeek before?
12:40	vagrantc: is parking there easy enough?
12:40	<vpxavier> should I change the order in .xsession?
12:41	<delly84> stgraber: could you send me your fat client scripts?
12:42	<ogra> vpxavier, change as you like, just dont forget the last app shouldnt have the & in the end of the line (all others should) and the last app is actually your session (X closes if you close the app)
12:44	<vpxavier> last line is /usr/bin/firefox
12:44	<vagrantc> warren: yes, he's been there
12:44	indradg_ has quit IRC
12:44	<vagrantc> warren: he came to the last impromptu hackfest
12:44	warren: at freegeek
12:45	<warren> vagrantc: so I have $200 of RH money to go toward (something) at the hackfest, probably food or something
12:45	<ogra> what did you hack there ?
12:45	<vagrantc> warren: cool!
12:45	disklessworkstations.com also kicked down some money for food...
12:46	indradg has joined #ltsp
12:46	<warren> should the money go toward dinner, or sandwiches during hacking, or something?
12:46	<vpxavier> @ogra, just add "ekiga &" before last line
12:46	<lejo_> warren: can I pm you to discuss a custom patch I made on ldm?
12:46	<ogra> wohoo, we'll live like kings for 4 days
12:46	<warren> lejo_: why me?
12:46	lejo_: several people in this channel have hacked on ldm
12:46	<vagrantc> warren: we should probably talk about it, exactly
12:47	<ogra> lejo_, just discuss it here, all ldm main devs are here
12:47	* vagrantc disappears for a couple hours
12:47	<lejo_> ok. I was looking at a way to execute a script before a user actually logs in. rc.d is only executed if a user is logged in
12:48	<ogra> warren, its likely not enoug to have dinner for everyone every evening, sandwitches during the day appaear saner
12:48	<lejo_> I could not find a way to do it so I added the following: http://pastebin.be/12674
12:48	<ogra> lejo_, wrong
12:48	rc.d is execued between the two ssh calls
12:48	<lejo_> probably so I was hoping at some good pointers
12:48	<ogra> the first one only establishes the tunnel
12:48	the second starts the desktop session
12:49	<vpxavier> might be because of devilspie? I'm commenting it and update image to try
12:49	<ogra> between them rc.d is run
12:49	<vagrantc> ogra: well, between RH and disklessworkstationjs, we actually have a pretty nice hunk of cash.
12:49	<ogra> oh disklessworkstations sponsors ?
12:49	* ogra wasnt aware
12:49	<warren> vagrantc: for hackfests I'd like to propose that we avoid junk food and sodas. I'd like to spend the money on 100% fruit juice, fruits and vegetables for the snack portion.
12:50	* ogra wouldnt mind a sandwich for lunch ... but apart from that agrees
12:50	<warren> vagrantc: do you eat mozzarella? I can make a pretty tasty caprese.
12:50	<lejo_> well I found out that ldm waits after if (get_userid()) until a user logged in...
12:50	(I'm using kiwi-ltsp)
12:50	<ogra> lejo_, hmm, not sure thats not hacked up or so ...
12:51	it does what i described on debian, ubuntu and fedora
12:51	<warren> lejo_: I've wanted something to run things before login myself
12:51	<ogra> what exactly do you want to achieve with scripts that run before ldm ?
12:51	<lejo_> ogra: the ldm code seems pretty unmodified on suse
12:51	<ogra> warren, add a line to screen.d/ldm then
12:52	<warren> ogra: there's no place to run stuff that needs x
12:52	<lejo_> warren: indeed!
12:52	<warren> ogra: screen.d is before ldm, and ldm itself runs X
12:52	<ogra> right x startup was moved
12:52	<lejo_> becase code after ldm is never reached
12:52	siki_ has joined #ltsp
12:52	<ogra> o always forget that
12:52	*i
12:52	<warren> discussing moving X back is on the hackfest agenda
12:52	<ogra> but still, whats the purpose of that ?
12:52	Gadi has left #ltsp
12:53	* ogra doesnt see the usecase
12:53	<lejo_> ogra: well for my purpose very simple i need a : numlockx on
12:53	<warren> for what specifically/
12:53	<lejo_> it does not work via Xsession or whatever
12:53	<ogra> that should be fixed with warrens kemap hack
12:53	*keymap
12:54	<warren> lejo_: did you look at the ldm-trunk upstream? recently I added code to optionally set keyboard settings from lts.conf XKB* options on-the-fly
12:54	lejo_: it happens after X runs and before ldm displays the login screen.
12:54	<lejo_> well someone pointed me today to it
12:54	I pulled my hair out the last couple of days about it
12:54	warren: seems that is what i need
12:54	<TheGuy> Can someone give me some pointers on how to get my sound card recognized by LTSP 4.2?
12:55	<warren> can XKB* options do your numlock thing? i dunno.
12:55	<ogra> f we cant get setxkbmap to do it we should add a patch for numlockx
12:55	<warren> ogra: and what, yet another lts.conf option?
12:55	<ogra> its five lines in max
12:55	<delly84> Nubae: I updated the image and now the client seems to be hanging on gdm ... "Starting GNOME Display Manager"
12:55	<ogra> well, its not really a common request
12:55	in three years of ltsp dev i see the question the second or third time
12:56	so i dont mind having that in lts.conf but off by default
12:56	<lejo_> the biggest problem why I need it is because otherwise people typ the wrong password
12:56	<ogra> take a saw ....
12:56	cut of the numberfield :)
12:57	<lejo_> on Belgian keyboard the numlock needs to be on before the numberfield will work
12:57	yeah I know :)
12:57	I typ qwerty so I don't need it but I can't convince my customers ;(
12:57	<vpxavier> @ogra: devilspie not involved
12:57	<ogra> well, i wouldnt mind adding numlock handling
12:57	Gadi has joined #ltsp
12:57	* Gadi really needs to solve this mouse freezing issue
12:57	<Gadi> :)
12:58	<ogra> i would mind blindly adding scripting functionallity if we dont have more purposes here
12:58	<delly84> in var/log/syslog i get nbd-server exported file ... then a lot of slapd <= bdb_equality_candidates: not indexed ... then nbd_server: read Failed: connection timed out
12:58	<ogra> Gadi, mice are so old fashioned ... get a guineapig they dont freeze ... fuzzy and warm :)
12:58	<lejo_> ogra: sounds reasonable
12:58	<delly84> all the while the client is still stuck on "starting GNOME Display Manager"
12:58	* jammcq prefers gerbels
12:59	<ogra> gerbels ?
12:59	<lejo_> now I can finally have my hair grow back ;P
12:59	<jammcq> gerbils ?
12:59	more fun than guinea pigs
12:59	<Gadi> itd be more fun if I were freezing the little guy in liquid nitrogen
12:59	<ogra> ah, well ... they hve these tails you can accidentially step on
13:00	<Nubae> delly84: u installed ldap then?
13:00	<ogra> a guineapig is more like a wireless mouse, you know :)
13:00	<delly84> yeah
13:00	<Nubae> I had to make a little script to start gdm using lts.conf
13:00	<vagrantc> warren: agreed. we should eat real food. :)
13:00	<Nubae> it wouldnt start otherwise... thats just a hack and a bad one, but that worked for me
13:01	<delly84> is that the same one in the howto?
13:01	<Nubae> yeah
13:01	i wrote the howto
13:01	<vpxavier> ok... I quit for today... thanks to all of those who didnt want me to go back to windows... (at least for today ;op )
13:01	<vagrantc> warren: i'm a voracious consumer of cheese.
13:01	<delly84> oh ... wow! cool!
13:01	<vpxavier> bye all
13:01	<ogra> mmmm, cheese
13:01	Nubae, but you are using xfce there, arent you ?
13:02	(and in the workstation plugin)
13:02	<warren> vagrantc: we could behave like sophisticates, several kinds of cheese, chocolate and port
13:02	vpxavier has quit IRC
13:02	<Nubae> I have a nearly finished plugin that does all of that (ldap, nfs mounted home, etc.) but havent had time to finish it
13:02	<warren> wear full suits and top hats, and burn $20 bills
13:02	<jammcq> ogra: yes, I have a hotel already booked
13:02	the Courtyard near the convention ctr
13:02	<Nubae> xfce... no I have tested with xfce though
13:02	* vagrantc runs off to work
13:02	vagrantc has quit IRC
13:03	<Nubae> but my actual fat clients are edubuntus
13:03	<Gadi> which side of the river?
13:03	<jammcq> same side as freegeek
13:03	<ogra> jammcq, ah, youre at OSCON i get it
13:03	rcy has quit IRC
13:03	<jammcq> well, i'm not going to oscon
13:03	* ogra will slack in boston that weekend
13:03	<jammcq> just staying near oscon
13:03	<delly84> i was confused with the ldap howto that you posted, so i used this one instead http://www.debuntu.org/ldap-server-and-linux-ldap-clients
13:03	<jammcq> I arrive thursday nite. oscon is finished on friday morning
13:03	<ogra> ah
13:04	<lejo_> stupid question: do you guys have tarballs available (for version 2.0.7) or should i just create it myself?
13:04	<Nubae> delly84: what confused you... so I can edit it :-)
13:04	<ogra> lejo_, you should use bzr
13:04	<lejo_> ok
13:04	<jammcq> seems like a nice hotel at a reasonable rate
13:04	<Nubae> delly84: there is some ltsp specific stuff in the ldap howto...
13:05	<ogra> lejo_, you can either put you branch on launchpad for free or scp it to a webserver you have access to somewhere so we can merge your changes
13:05	jammcq, can you mail me data for it druing the next week or so ?
13:05	DonSilver has quit IRC
13:06	<Nubae> the debuntu howto is for the server
13:06	not the client
13:06	there are 2 parts to ldap, the slapd ldap server
13:06	and the ldap clients
13:06	<jammcq> ogra@ubuntu.com ?
13:06	<ogra> yeps
13:07	<delly84> so basically the par in "Populating The LDAP Tree" seemed rather specific and I wasn't sure ... without being comfortable with ldap, how i should change it for myself
13:07	<ogra> jammcq, no hurry though
13:07	DonSilver has joined #ltsp
13:07	* ogra is way to busy to care for bookings atm anyway
13:07	<delly84> in the debuntu howto, they just use migrationtools to populate the ldap tree
13:07	<jammcq> sent
13:07	so at least you won't be waiting for me
13:07	<ogra> gracias :)
13:07	<Nubae> right, I dont mention in the howto, how to do the server part
13:07	I say u should look elsewhere :-)
13:08	<ogra> jammcq, so is scottie really coming ?
13:08	<delly84> what do you mean?
13:08	<ogra> !seen sbalneav
13:08	<ltspbot> ogra: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 3 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 43 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I'll pop in later tonight. Off home for the day.
13:08	<ogra> only three weeks though
13:08	<Nubae> the ldap stuff in the ubuntu wiki talks about what is done on the client
13:08	on the thin client
13:08	the debuntu stuff is for the server
13:08	<jammcq> ogra: yeah, time for me to call him again
13:08	poke the sleeping bear
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13:08	<ogra> he said he had booked tickets
13:09	<jammcq> yeah
13:09	<ogra> so i assume he will come
13:09	<jammcq> well.... I assume so too
13:10	* ogra needs to make a gadget whishlist still ...
13:10	<delly84> the client just woke up and gave me a bunch of squashfs/nbd0 errors
13:10	<ogra> your country is so cheap :)
13:10	<Nubae> this could be ldap interfering
13:10	<delly84> ...
13:11	you could be right
13:11	any suggestions?
13:11	<ogra> drop ldap for a test
13:11	to see it gets to gdm
13:12	<Nubae> and u should really follow the client ldap part from my howto...
13:12	its specific for ltsp
13:12	<warren> doh, vagrantc left
13:12	<ogra> and you should exclude everything below uid 1000
13:12	<moldy_> hi
13:12	<warren> I was going to say, we should plan out a menu before we get there.
13:12	<moldy_> how do i get at a shell on the client so i can debug the machine?
13:12	<ogra> warren, email :)
13:12	<Nubae> when using migrationtools, make sure u dont include system users
13:13	thats the same as what ogra said
13:13	<ogra> a bit better formulated :)
13:13	<delly84> ok, thanks for the help Nubae and ogra
13:13	<ogra> (than exclude uid < 1000) :)
13:14	<Nubae> heh... its important to undertstand that ldap is 2 parts
13:14	the server and the client, one is installed on the server, the other in the chroot
13:14	gotta go eat :-)
13:14	<delly84> obviously this is a learning experience, but i have spent a couple of weeks on this :(
13:14	<Nubae> delly84: I spent several months
13:14	<delly84> yeah me too, are you going to be back later this afternoon?
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13:14	<Nubae> :-)
13:14	<delly84> touche :)
13:15	<Nubae> yeah probably, I'm usually around
13:16	<delly84> thanks again for the help... very much appreciated
13:18	<ogra> delly84, you miss the point ... we still dont have a proper fat client implementation, you are our guineapig ;)
13:19	* ogra isnt serious indeed
13:20	<moldy_> i have a client here that contains a via unichrome graphics chip. it seems that i may need to use a certain .def file. can anyone confirm that this is the case?
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13:20	<ogra> moldy_, what distro
13:21	<moldy_> ogra: ubuntu (currently 7.04)
13:21	(ltsp5)
13:22	<ogra> that should just work with either the via or the openchrome driver
13:22	<moldy_> when i set xserver=via in lts.conf, x does not start on the client
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13:22	* ogra has via HW around he ran with feisty
13:22	<moldy_> ogra: hmm, i will try the openchrome driver
13:22	<ogra> not sure that was in the default install back then
13:22	you might need to add it from universe
13:23	<TheGuy> I have sound working now, can someone tell me why the volume is so low? I have volume = 100 in lts.conf yet it is very faint
13:24	<moldy_> ogra: i have universe added already i think
13:24	<ogra> well, check if the driver is installed in the chroot
13:24	<moldy_> ogra: but how do i install the driver for the clients?
13:25	ogra: do i just install it in the server's environment?
13:25	<ogra> you go into the chroot and apt-get inatll the package :)
13:25	no
13:25	<moldy_> ogra: ah ok
13:25	<ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386
13:25	makes you root in the client environment
13:26	in feisty you might need to copy /etc/resolv.conf and the sources.list file from teh server into the client root
13:26	* ogra cant really remember anymore ... thats so long ago already :)
13:26	<moldy_> ogra: apt finds the package in the server environment, but not from inside the chroot
13:27	<ogra> right, copy your sources.list and run apt-get update in the chroot
13:30	<moldy_> ogra: ok, thanks
13:30	<ogra> if you dont get a network connection, make sure to also copy /etc/resolv.conf
13:30	<jammcq> ok, talked to sbalneav. He's VERY excited about coming
13:31	<ogra> yay
13:31	great
13:34	<jammcq> he says he'll log into the channel in about 30 minutes
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13:49	<moldy_> ogra: i installed the openchrome package, but the client xorg still fails to start because it cannot find the module.
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13:52	<ogra> openchrome just replaces the via driver, its still called via
13:52	<moldy_> ogra: ahh. "via" or "unichrome"?
13:53	<ogra> via iirc
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13:53	<moldy_> where could i check?
13:53	<Gadi> the ubuntu openchrome package names it "via"
13:53	if you used the openchrome source, it names it 'openchrome'
13:54	<moldy_> Gadi: ahh. thanks. then it should be "via"...
13:54	<Gadi> if you use the "unichrome" package, I believe it is "unichrome"
13:54	<moldy_> confused ;)
13:54	<Gadi> welcome to the wonderful world of Via
13:54	:P
13:55	<moldy_> Gadi: hehe
13:55	<Gadi> if you installed xserver-xorg-video-openchrome, then use "via"
13:55	<moldy_> ok... updating the image right now
13:56	<Gadi> if it still doesnt come up, check in the BIOS that your AGP aperture is 32MB or greater
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13:57	<moldy_> ok, thanks for the hint :)
13:57	Gadi: you sound like you have experience with those chips. will it be fast enough to play flash videos?
13:58	<Gadi> or better yet, check the xorg log file on the client
13:58	<ogra> didnt you say 7.04 before ?
13:58	<Gadi> flash has issues that go beyond just the vid chipset
13:58	<ogra> there is no image on 7.04 yu need to update
13:58	<moldy_> ogra: me? yes, why?
13:58	ogra: ? ltsp-update-image ?
13:59	<ogra> not on 7.04 ... that cme with 7.10
13:59	*came
13:59	<moldy_> ogra: ahh right, it is 7.10. sorry.
13:59	<Gadi> brb
13:59	<ogra> ah
13:59	k
14:00	<moldy_> i hope i somehow can get flash to work with decent performance :-/
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14:28	<cliebow> SCOTTIE!!!!
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14:43	<warren> vagrantc: maybe we should plan a menu before we go there
14:43	vagrantc: so we know what to buy
14:43	brb
14:44	<vagrantc> warren: yeah, that's a good idea.
14:45	* vagrantc is a little tricky to feed these days
14:45	<vagrantc> cliebow: where!?
14:45	!seen sbalneav
14:45	<ltspbot> vagrantc: sbalneav was last seen in #ltsp 3 weeks, 0 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <sbalneav> I'll pop in later tonight. Off home for the day.
14:46	<ogra> vagrantc, jim talked to him on the phone ... he wanted to drop in later
14:46	<jammcq> hmm, he said 30 minutes
14:46	guess he's on canadian time
14:46	<ogra> yeah, its a while ago
14:46	heh
14:52	<moldy> if flash playblack is slow on the client, can that be caused by the server being too slow?
14:52	<cliebow> maybe half an hour is longer in VCanada
14:52	Well..poke him for me..i gotta run home..
14:52	figuratively speaking
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15:02	<moldy> bbl
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15:46	<jammcq> ogra: have you heard about any problems with Hardy gdm not handling remote displays properly
15:47	<ogra> no, but to be hinest i havent checked
15:47	*honest
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15:56	<delly84> Nubae: in your howto, are you using nfs instead of nbd?
15:56	or both?
15:57	<Nubae> I use nfs to mount /home
15:57	currently its the only way
15:57	<delly84> do you have to export /home on the server?
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15:58	<Nubae> yes
15:58	<delly84> ok
15:59	also, where are the scripts nfsmounts.sh and startgdm.sh supposed to be located ... on the server or in chroot?
15:59	that was a little confusing in the howto
16:00	<Nubae> in the chroot
16:00	<delly84> both?
16:00	yeah, that makes sense
16:02	<Nubae> yes both
16:07	<epoxy\|w3rk> hm.. if i am using debian, do i still do ltsp-update-image etc etc?
16:07	<delly84> in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/fati386/lts.conf do the rc files need to be in a group like [default]? also, i think RCFILE_NN only goes from 01 to 10. in the howto you say 00, and i don't think that works
16:07	<epoxy\|w3rk> ...since it is using nfs
16:08	<Nubae> delly84: can u test to see if thats the case? that 00 doesnt work and if so... please modify the wiki
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16:09	<epoxy\|w3rk> the reason i ask is (1) i haven't the paste week and have an awesome system (thanks btw!) and (2) i am getting "this workstation isn't authorized to connect to server" on a barebones install on a test box.. but everything i read on google leads to update ssh keys/image. which doesnt help
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16:09	<Nubae> u must put [default] in the lts.conf as the first line or it wont work
16:09	and yeah just put it in there as its for all the workstations using the fat client image
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16:10	<delly84> gotcha. also as far as the 00 thing, i got it from here: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtsConf#RCFILE_01_through_RCFILE_10
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16:13	<Nubae> ah k... then change that in the wiki ;-)
16:15	<epoxy\|w3rk> hrm
16:25	<delly84> Nubae: np
16:25	<epoxy\|w3rk> weird.. nm about my problemo. i restarted...and it automagically worked
16:25	figures :)
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16:37	<delly84> Nubae: i have found that when proc doesn't umount i just do umount -l /proc which works
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16:37	<Nubae> cool, when there are subpaths in proc mounted u mean?
16:37	<ogra> you can o it just outside the chroot with umount /opt/ltsp/i386/proc
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16:38	<ogra> s/o/do
16:38	<delly84> yeah, it's lazy umount
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16:39	<delly84> "cleanup all references ... etc"
16:39	can i add that to the wiki?
16:39	<ogra> be careful to not unmount your servers proc
16:39	<Nubae> go right ahead :-)
16:39	heh that would be bad...
16:39	unmounting server proc
16:40	<ogra> i''m not sure umount -l /proc doesnt do that...
16:40	check before adding it to the wiki
16:41	if you build an image from it its moot anyway since ltsp-update-image will care
16:41	<Nubae> yeah that entire umount proc part can be taken out now I guess
16:42	<ogra> i relly wonder how it got in first playce ... or why ... i definately didnt touch ltsp-update-image apart from one fix that adds a /
16:42	<Nubae> well I put it there for a reason
16:43	<ogra> yeah
16:43	i imagine
16:43	<Nubae> and I do remember u telling me how dangerous it was to not unmount proc ;-)
16:44	<ogra> hmm
16:44	i usually just tell people to not forget about unmounting it
16:44	<delly84> i made some small edits
16:46	<Nubae> ok the word dangerous probably wasnt used
16:46	<delly84> :-)
16:46	should all of the umount stuff just be taken out
16:47	?
16:47	<Nubae> ogra?
16:47	<delly84> the only thing is that the ltsp-update-image doesn't umount /sys
16:47	<ogra> no idea
16:47	<delly84> i am not sure that it matters though
16:47	<ogra> wiki url ?
16:47	<delly84> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
16:49	<ogra> yeah drop the proc stuff
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16:49	<ogra> and if you file a bug i'll add a fix to ltsp-update-image to unmount proc as well
16:49	err
16:49	sys i mean :)
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16:50	* Nubae wishes he had time to finish the ldap + nfs fat client plugin, but is too busy with Fedora and gears now
16:52	<delly84> ... me too
16:52	:-)
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16:54	<delly84> *delly84
16:54	<Nubae> do /me
16:54	<delly84> :-) thanks
16:55	how do i setup nfs on the server?
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16:56	<Nubae> its in the wiki isnt it?
16:56	apt-get install nfs-kernel-server nfs-common
16:56	and then edit /etc/exports
16:57	<delly84> and then just export /home?
16:57	nbd takes care of the filesystem right?
16:57	i am just making sure i have this correct
16:59	<Nubae> nfs is just for exporting /home
16:59	<delly84> gotcha
16:59	<Nubae> everything else is in the client
16:59	but /home stays on the server
16:59	so u can use it for thin clients too
17:00	the entire idea is management should still be as simple as possible
17:02	<delly84> Nubae, will you be on tomorrow?
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17:24	<alkisg> Hi, I'm using hardy/LTSP on one school, but on another I have somewhat newer PCs (1.6GHz, 256RAM) and I was thinking to use them as FAT clients. I.e. I want clients to run GPaint and Firefox locally, but Gimp, OpenOffice and "heavier" apps from the server. How should I do this? NFS and ssh -Y? Do I have to use LDAP? Can I store the student home dirs on the clients or they'll need NFS server and it'll be too heavy for them? Suggestions, please? :)
17:25	<Nubae> wow... its fat client day today
17:25	alkisg: have u checked the wiki?
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17:26	<alkisg> Nubae, there was a similar question before? Will I find an answer if I look at the logs?
17:26	<Nubae> well I've written up the procedure to install fat clients
17:26	but its either fat or thin
17:26	<alkisg> Nubae, link please?
17:26	<Nubae> u dont get in between as u are explaining
17:27	http://https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPFatClients
17:28	what I suggest is, install with the plugin, then manually edit fat client chroot and add applications that u want
17:29	for management I'd store the /home on the server and mount to clients via nfs
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17:31	<alkisg> Nubae, thanks, that's a LOT of reading material! :)
17:31	But they don't get to run any apps from the server, right?
17:32	<Nubae> nope, either one or the other
17:32	<alkisg> Nubae, so basically you just avoid setting up the clients individually...
17:32	<Nubae> true local apps is what u are asking for, but that isnt possible yet
17:33	yeah and central management of users and home directories
17:33	also maintenance, etc all central based
17:33	<alkisg> But LDAP and NFS could also be applied to a non-ltsp related setup, right?
17:33	<Nubae> sure
17:34	I had smb-ldap running like that with windows clients too
17:34	but its a serious pain to manage
17:34	having to install on each computer
17:34	<alkisg> Yeah, I know what you mean! :)
17:34	<Nubae> and then tracing what goes wrong
17:35	<alkisg> But I'll have problems with heavier apps, the PCs are not that "FAT"
17:35	<Nubae> 1.6ghz is really ok
17:35	u just need more RAM
17:36	fat clients could be even 800mhz without problems
17:36	<alkisg> They need a lot of time to open OpenOffice, mostly...
17:36	<Nubae> but u need to decide whether ure clients are fat or thin :-)
17:36	<alkisg> What about ssh -Y for all the clients? Aside from authentication/storage problems, it won't have any difference in performance from the classic LTSP, right?
17:37	<Nubae> I'm not sure... without testing it I wouldn't know.. I use ssh tunnels remotely
17:37	but never on the the same subnet
17:37	thats what I use ltsp for :-)
17:38	<alkisg> Thin/FAT... It's a difficult decision, not only for PCs... :P
17:39	Thanks a lot, and mostly for the wiki page, I'll think about all this!
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17:41	<Nubae> I would install more ram in the clients if I was u
17:41	and was going to use them for fat clients
17:42	<alkisg> ...and maybe some gigabit cards for later, when they become thin...
17:42	You're right though, I'll try to convince the principal
17:42	You think 512 would be enough for the current releases?
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