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04:44 | <alkisg> !seen vagrantc
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04:44 | <ltsp> alkisg: vagrantc was last seen in #ltsp 1 day, 7 hours, 54 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: * vagrantc is behind on reading backscroll too
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04:58 | <ba> hey guys!
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04:58 | :D
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04:58 | a quick..and shameless question.....is there any new features coming with Ubuntu 12.04 in LTSP? I wonder is there anything I could test and is there anything that could save my life..
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05:00 | <alkisg> There's no support for sending XP images yet :D
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05:00 | <ba> alkisg, oohh :)) lol
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05:00 | <alkisg> Hehe... there are some new features, but I can't think of anything that would interest you
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05:00 | <ba> alkisg, please......
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05:00 | alkisg, who knows! may be I could find a normal solution for my faulty project
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05:00 | <alkisg> How many clients do you have?
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05:01 | <ba> alkisg, should be about 100 clients (but 40 would be more than great)
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05:01 | currently I have only ten working through RDP
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05:01 | <alkisg> Same hardware?
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05:01 | <ba> a lot of complains...
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05:01 | yes the same hardware
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05:01 | <alkisg> 500 MHz / 1 Gb RAM?
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05:02 | <ba> alkisg, ...yes
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05:02 | firstly i tried to make them using Ubuntu. but I had to run many windows programs so decided to go with rdesktop
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05:02 | <alkisg> And do you need 3d acceleration etc?
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05:02 | <ba> I compiled FreeRDP 1.0 with many tasty features. but it's slow anyway (slow when scrolling in IE and other browsers) I don't know why
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05:03 | alkisg, Video is not mandatory
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05:03 | <alkisg> I could try installing ubuntu in an external disk, and booting from that. Then, I'd install vbox + a windows XP vm in it.
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05:04 | If that is good enough, performance-wise for you, then ltsp+vbox VMs of XP will do what you want.
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05:04 | *I would, not could
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05:05 | If it's not good enough, I'd try iscsi or aoe
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05:09 | <ba> Ubuntu + VirtualBox + Windows machine on the 500Mhz?
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05:09 | the disk and storage is not a problem a built a SAN
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05:10 | <alkisg> Yes, ubuntu + vbox + windows
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05:10 | A light version of it would be better, for testing, e.g. lubuntu
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05:11 | <ba> alkisg, ubuntu with the only vbox app installed right?
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05:11 | <alkisg> Because ltsp thin clients only need 64 MB RAM, it's even lighter than lubuntu
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05:11 | Yes
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05:11 | You could also test with ltsp, it would just be harder for you
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05:11 | <ba> and VBox installed not as a local app right?
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05:11 | :D
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05:11 | if not as a local app then why not hm
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05:11 | <alkisg> As a local app. That's why I'm proposing to try without ltsp
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05:12 | <ba> alkisg, a already have such type of installation here with Citrix Provisioning Services
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05:12 | alkisg, it allows Operating System streaming
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05:12 | <alkisg> Yeah you told me yesterday, but that's not a VM, is it?
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05:12 | <ba> alkisg, things booting fine and working fine...
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05:13 | alkisg, yes, not as VM.
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05:13 | <alkisg> So it's not the same type of installation
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05:13 | <ba> alkisg, if with VBox installed as a local app would use thin client's hardware anyway
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05:13 | <alkisg> Yes
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05:14 | <ba> alkisg, so the small ubuntu + X server + VBox + Windows XP in it vs OS streaming = who win?
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05:14 | OS streaming of course.
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05:14 | it's a bare OS on TC's HW
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05:14 | I can try though
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05:14 | <alkisg> Of course os streaming wins, and of course iscsi beats that too
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05:15 | Because iscsi or aoe is like native installations
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05:15 | <ba> alkisg, yes the performance is like it's running on TC's own compact flash drive
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05:15 | <alkisg> The vbox method would be *easier*, not faster
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05:16 | You could e.g. install photoshop in your template vbox vm, and on the next reboot all clients would have that
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05:16 | You could put clients with different hardware and they'd just work
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05:16 | <ba> alkisg, with PVS you only manage only one image too
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05:16 | <alkisg> And what does it do with drivers?
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05:16 | <ba> PVS is absolute powerful technology. The problem is that it requires powerful end point device
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05:16 | <alkisg> You install the nvidia drivers in the template image?
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05:16 | <ba> alkisg, the idea is that with PVS:
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05:17 | <alkisg> And the ati drivers, etc etc?
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05:17 | <ba> alkisg, you first install PVS server configure DHCP+TFTP
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05:17 | alkisg, then you install an OS to your target device
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05:17 | alkisg, then you install Target Device sfotware on that OS specifying your PVS server
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05:17 | alkisg, (of course with it's native drivers)
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05:17 | <alkisg> Locally? You're supposed to have a local disk?
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05:18 | <ba> alkisg, then it starts uploading your endpoint device OS to remote vDisk
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05:18 | alkisg, then you restart the device and boot via PXE
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05:18 | alkisg, you would now load that remote vDisk instead of local disk
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05:19 | alkisg, and you can remove your local disk and work like that
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05:19 | <alkisg> And any changes you make from then on, are they temporary or permanent?
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05:19 | <ba> alkisg, it's configurable! as you wish.
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05:19 | alkisg, you can make it temporary or you can make a permanent
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05:19 | <alkisg> So the downside is that you need a different image for each client with different hardware
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05:19 | <ba> alkisg, with permanent PVS would create so called "DIfferentiate disk"
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05:20 | <alkisg> And how does it handle hostnames, cids, ssids etc?
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05:20 | It changes those on boot?
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05:20 | <ba> it handles somehow
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05:21 | <alkisg> Is the result stable? I expect *not*, with all those background changes to undocumented ms core stuff...
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05:21 | While with a VM you don't even care about the os, the hostname etc
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05:22 | It's a good technology though, I was thinking of something like that for ltsp
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05:22 | To be able to manage fat clients either in vbox installations or on template installations on real hardware
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05:22 | The good part is that with linux you don't need a local disk at all
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05:23 | <ba> (be right back) phone
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05:28 | alright
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05:28 | alkisg, actually I am not sure when it makes it's magic with Active Directory management but it does
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05:29 | alkisg, with PVS you don't need local disk too! it just needed to install the OS with it's drivers and then convert it to virtual
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05:29 | alkisg, PVS would just die if LTSP starts to provide this solution for Windows machines
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05:29 | <alkisg> Yes, that's not always possible, depending on the client hardware a local disk may not be available
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05:30 | I don't think ltsp would do that
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05:30 | It needs client windows code
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05:30 | <ba> alkisg, I understand
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05:30 | alkisg, PVS is great when you have a great and stable Network and end point devices are powerful enough!
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05:31 | but ghreat thing is that you don't depend on disks
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05:31 | <alkisg> So your problems with PVS are only those 2? network stability + client cpu?
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05:31 | <ba> it's even greater if you have many equal hardware like powerful ThinClients (1Ghz and upper)
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05:31 | alkisg, client CPU mostly.
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05:32 | the network intensively used only at boot time
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05:32 | <alkisg> How are licenses managed?
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05:32 | <ba> alkisg, as always with Citrix products. You need to have License Server and upload license files
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05:32 | <alkisg> You need to have a corporate version of windows?
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05:32 | <ba> alkisg, per device/user
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05:32 | <alkisg> Not the citrix licenses... the windows licenses
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05:32 | <ba> alkisg, about windows...can't tell 100% but I think yes. Windows XP SP3 or Windows 7 Enterprise
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05:33 | alkisg, not sure about this :D as I was testing I didn't use licensed OS
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05:33 | <alkisg> Gotcha
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05:33 | <ba> alkisg, PVS supports KMS activation features though
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05:33 | alkisg, to massive activation of machines or something like that
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05:33 | <alkisg> Well with ltsp fat clients we have all that under linux... it's the windows part that's problematic
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05:34 | <ba> alkisg, sure. LTSP is great project. the NBD-Server is very much like PVS really
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05:34 | alkisg, I wouldn't be surprised if they are actually using NBD code
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05:35 | <alkisg> How do the clients see their hard disk device?
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05:35 | As an nbd device? Or as iscsi? or aoe?
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05:35 | <ba> alkisg, in the system tray there is an icon a disk showing activity and the mode (permanent, cache etc.)
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05:35 | alkisg, good questoin about how it sees...one second :D
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05:35 | <alkisg> That's probably a citrix application
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05:35 | Check with devmgmt.msc
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05:36 | <ba> Windows XP is shwoing "Citrix Virtual Hard DIsk"
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05:36 | <alkisg> Right, good choice.
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05:37 | Of course implementing a windows device driver is outside the scope of ltsp :D
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05:37 | <ba> alkisg :D
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05:37 | alkisg, with Linux is getting better in terms of UI and common usability I think it's gonna be a great alternative soon
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05:38 | <alkisg> UI and usability are great, the problem is specific apps
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05:38 | <ba> alkisg, with FreeRDP 1.0 I was thinking of use RemoteApp feature and having Linux + many remoteApps
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05:38 | <alkisg> If a user knows ms office and doesn't want to switch to libreoffice, then that's a problem
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05:38 | <ba> alkisg, a huge problem...
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05:39 | alkisg, but, I must say...Citrix products are not easy. It's a greatest time killer
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05:39 | alkisg, something happens always...whatever you do :D
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05:39 | <alkisg> Even after the initial setup?
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05:39 | Hm
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05:39 | That's not good
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05:40 | <ba> alkisg, yes. So dont' epxect too much with it and people talking about their products..
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05:40 | visit their forums. a lot of problems :D
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05:40 | I am not going to make bad advertisment..it's jut my own experience.
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05:40 | subjective :D
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05:41 | but next time I will go with RedHat or VMWare
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05:41 | <alkisg> Haha don't worry noone here will hold it against you :D
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06:25 | <Komunista> alkisg: ping :-)
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06:26 | alkisg: I am now in the ltsp class and I tried new version epoptes, but I still do not see the clients
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06:27 | <alkisg> Hi Komunista
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06:27 | Mind if we share a vnc screen?
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06:28 | In epoptes, go to help menu
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06:28 | And select "remote support"
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06:28 | And give my ip there: alkisg.dyndns.org
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06:29 | <Komunista> done
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06:32 | <alkisg> Komunista: can you run this command from the thin client?
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06:32 | x11vnc -noshm -connect alkisg.dyndns.org
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06:32 | So that I see both sides
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06:33 | <Komunista> yes, I will copy&paste it by hand (paper and pen) :-)
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06:34 | done
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06:35 | I get connection timeout
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06:35 | <alkisg> Komunista: never mind I think I see the problem
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06:36 | We need the mac address of the thin client
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06:36 | And the correct method to get it would be to change the ltsp package
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06:36 | But we didn't have time to wait for a new ltsp release
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06:36 | So we put code in epoptes-client to expose the ltsp client mac to its session
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06:36 | <Komunista> take look at the server screen, in terminal is arp output
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06:36 | <alkisg> And that's how we detect if we should display the client or not
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06:36 | No no
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06:37 | So what I'm saying is that you *need* the epoptes-client in the chroot
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06:37 | In a future version we'll change ltsp so that you won't be needing it
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06:37 | But now you do need it
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06:37 | <Komunista> but in previous versions it works without it
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06:37 | <alkisg> Yes
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06:37 | We changed the code to *require* the mac address of the thin client
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06:38 | It simplified the code a lot
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06:38 | Do you want me to patch your local version to do without it?
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06:38 | <Komunista> but when I tried the epoptes-client in chroot, there was two clients, which was not able to connect
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06:38 | <alkisg> Let's try it together now if you don't have a problem with that
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06:39 | <Komunista> no problem to wait, while it is not critical app for me, it is only "candy" for students :-)
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06:39 | <alkisg> I don't know how long it will take for a new ltsp version to come out...
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06:40 | Especially for squeeze
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06:40 | <Komunista> yes we can try it now
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06:40 | <alkisg> Do you want me to patch your local installation of epoptes?
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06:40 | That, or to install epoptes-client in the chroot
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06:40 | <Komunista> ok, this take some time - I am at NBD
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06:42 | <alkisg> Komunista: you're running aptitude somewhere on your server...
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06:42 | Close it so that we can install epoptes-client in the chroot
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06:42 | <Komunista> yes, in chroot
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06:42 | <alkisg> Ah ok sorry I was trying to install it as well :D
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06:43 | <Komunista> :-)
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06:43 | <alkisg> Don't forget to run `epoptes-client -c` in the chroot, to fetch the server certificate
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06:43 | <Komunista> ok, thanks
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06:43 | it is all, please? I have no install instructions opened now...
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06:44 | <alkisg> In the chroot:
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06:44 | apt-get update; apt-get install epoptes-client; epoptes-client -c
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06:44 | exit, update image
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06:44 | reboot clients
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06:45 | <Komunista> I will tried it only in one client now, the students are going
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06:45 | <alkisg> OK
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06:48 | Komunista: for the other client to show up, the client needs to be rebooted
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06:48 | <Komunista> it seems to work now, I see this one (rebooted) client
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06:48 | <alkisg> OK, if you want file a bug about not working when not installed in the chroot
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06:48 | * alkisg left vnc | |
06:48 | <Komunista> alkisg: thanks :-)
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06:49 | <alkisg> You're welcome, thanks for the translation :)
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06:49 | <Komunista> I will update translation in next days, but, please, is problem post call for translation?
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06:50 | in PO files is the last translator field, with email adress
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06:50 | no problem to grep and mass mail...
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06:50 | <alkisg> Yeah I guess we can do that
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06:50 | I will send a mail to all translators for the next version
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06:51 | <Komunista> thanks, it is obvious in other projects too to send this some days before release ;-)
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12:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> !!
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12:57 | <ltsp> _UsUrPeR_: Error: "!" is not a valid command.
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12:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> :O
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13:03 | <muppis> :)
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13:05 | Hmm..
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13:05 | !learn ! Are you frustrated?
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13:05 | <ltsp> muppis: (learn [<channel>] <key> as <value>) -- Associates <key> with <value>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. The word 'as' is necessary to separate the key from the value. It can be changed to another word via the learnSeparator registry value.
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13:05 | <muppis> | |
13:05 | !learn ! as Are you frustrated?
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13:05 | <ltsp> muppis: The operation succeeded.
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13:05 | <muppis> !!
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13:05 | <ltsp> muppis: !: Are you frustrated?
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13:06 | <muppis> :D
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13:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> :D
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13:06 | I forgot the bot was !
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13:06 | <muppis> That's why I made that.
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13:24 | <laurei> getltscfg -a
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13:24 | syntax error in /etc/lts.conf line 1
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13:25 | my only line is NFS_HOME=/home
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13:25 | its crazy
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13:29 | <xsl> hi all
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13:36 | <muppis> laurei, you should have [default] above it.
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13:37 | <laurei> of course! just came to that conclusion, that was a hard one, thanks :)
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13:43 | I was speaking with alkisg yesterday about allowing access to other users /home's, he suggested follow symlinks for ssh or use nfs_home
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13:43 | I just got it working using nfs_home :)
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13:43 | , the follow symlinks allowed me to see users inside the chroot but not on the server for some reason
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13:44 | * users /home folders. either way, nfs is working i see them all
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13:46 | you guys are so helpful ltsp rocks
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13:47 | <xsl> is it possible to use LTSP to deploy max images ? imagine i want the thin clients to have installed allways on disc a ubuntu distro.and i make them [default] goes to LTSP and [MAC] goes to installing raw image on disc
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13:56 | <laurei> xsl: This is easy done via normal pxe netbooting, and pretty sure ltsp starts on these principles, try a tutorial on netbooting first, im sure its just a matter of modifying /var/lib/tftpboot/pxelinux.cfg/default but i might be wrong if it messes with ltsp
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14:24 | <laurei> hi alkisg I had success with NFS_HOME after about a day, but is it normal that the true owner of the files isnt respected?
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14:25 | <alkisg> What do you mean?
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14:28 | <laurei> the home folders should just be mounted with the permissions of the logged in users normally? as per normal NFS or would It work differently? alkisg
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14:29 | <alkisg> It's normal NFS, but only the logged in user exists on the client
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14:29 | The client doesn't know about all the other users in the ltsp server
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14:31 | <laurei> thats good to note. I'm using NFS_HOME and I can see their folders, i'd like the permissions to be the same, eg, cant access them unless allowed to
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14:34 | alkisg at the moment I can either access everyones home dirs on 0666 or none (not even my own) on 644 perms
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14:35 | <alkisg> Yes, it's because the users are missing from the ltsp clients
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14:36 | You could either patch ltsp to bring the other user accounts too, or use the default sshfs, or use ldap, etc
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14:36 | <laurei> what user does nfs connect as , just world?
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14:36 | I do use LDAP
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14:38 | <alkisg> I think nfs uses "nobody" for missing accounts
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14:38 | ldap on the fat clients, not the server
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14:38 | It would require changes to the chroot + maybe in some ltsp scripts
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14:39 | <laurei> true, perhaps I haven't set the client ldap up, I'll look for the mans
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14:40 | confusing because the password and username already work from ldap
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14:40 | on fat c's
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14:40 | <alkisg> If you try "su otheruser" from a fat client, it works?
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14:40 | I don't believe so...
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14:41 | <laurei> it logged in from the alt ctrl f1 prompt, i'll try terminal in gnome
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14:45 | <alkisg> bbl
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18:34 | <alkisg> Hi vagrantc! Whenever you have some time, epoptes is ready for a release :)
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18:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: tomorrow could work
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18:36 | <alkisg> Nice, ty
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18:36 | I've stressed it in a school, thumbnails seem much more stable now
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18:38 | <vagrantc> cool
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18:38 | also want to push a new ldm tomorrow
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18:38 | and if it goes well, ltsp
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18:45 | <hughessd> hi all, I just had something strange happen with my LTSP setup.
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18:46 | I set LDM_DIRECTX =True in lts.conf in hopes that it would help the choppiness of video in firefox and chrome.
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18:46 | and now one of the HP thinclients won't refresh it's video. even after changing taking the line back out of lts.conf
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18:46 | <hughessd> (which prob means they're not actually related)
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18:47 | <hughessd> i was hoping someone has had experience with HP thinclients... Please give me a shout if so. Thank you.
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18:48 | <muppis> !win32-loader
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18:48 | <ltsp> muppis: win32-loader: win32-loader.exe can be used to add a "PXE - Network boot" option to the Windows boot manager. It's developed for Debian and it uses gPXE/iPXE for the network booting. You can download a binary from http://ts.sch.gr/docs/kanonismoi-diadikasies/doc_download/327-ltsp-loader - (if someone can write a wiki page about it it'd be nice :))
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19:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: looks like ipxe in /boot with grub2 is now in debian sid
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19:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: yup, and I also filed another bug for win32-loader to depend on that, and create a win32-loader-pxe.exe in the debian archives :) http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=657830
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19:37 | So in the future windows users will be able to run http://ftp.debian.org/debian/tools/win32-loader/unstable/win32-loader-pxe.exe and have instant ltsp clients (if the card doesn't have a boot rom, that is)
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19:38 | <vagrantc> wow.
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19:39 | alkisg: looks like it doesn't generate a correct grub entry though ... minor bugfix
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19:44 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ipxe in debian is currently broken, it results in "B: command not found", if that's the problem you saw...
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19:44 | The upstream git snapshot was from a date in the summer when it had problems being booted from grub
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19:44 | Someone is working on uploading a newer one...
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19:49 | <alkisg> Btw I wrote a wiki page about managing groups, to help with that drag 'n' drop problem: http://www.epoptes.org/documentation/groups
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19:50 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh, also the grub entries are broken
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19:52 | alkisg: ah, so the code is even broken? :(
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19:52 | alkisg: it just created a bunk menu entry, i.e. no linux or linux16 entry
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19:52 | <alkisg> Yeah ipxe.lkrn can be booted with syslinux but not from grub
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19:52 | <vagrantc> doh.
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19:55 | <alkisg> That's the entry that the ipxe package created for me: http://paste.ubuntu.com/826840/
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19:56 | <alkisg> https://code.launchpad.net/~alkisg/+junk/ipxe
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19:57 | https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/2206055/+listing-archive-extra
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19:58 | <alkisg> That last binary package is ok, it should create a correct grub entry and also boot :)
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19:59 | * alkisg loves bazaar recipes for automated builds | |
19:59 | <vagrantc> alkisg: my entry is http://paste.debian.net/154538/
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19:59 | alkisg: the ipxe.lkrn line should be pre-pended with linux or linux16
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19:59 | <alkisg> And probably have the /boot path too
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20:00 | linux won't work, linux16 is needed
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20:00 | <vagrantc> not on my system
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20:00 | it detects the path correctly for me
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20:00 | it just didn't have the linux16 logic in there
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20:00 | i'll have to file a bug report, if someone hasn't already
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20:00 | <alkisg> /ipxe.lkrn is the correct path for you?!
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20:01 | Maybe the script doesn't like that, then :)
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20:01 | <vagrantc> yes, boot is on it's own partition
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20:02 | no, the scripts fine with that, but it failed to copy the logic to determine weather to use linux/linux16, and instead uses an empty variable
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21:31 | <rthomson> I am so close to having a fully functional F16 chroot... but nbd-swap / systemd is causing a kernel panic at shutdown. sigh. If I disable nbd swap, everything is grand. Been spending far too long trying to figure out how to get systemd to run swapoff early in the shutdown/reboot process.
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