IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 22 December 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 13:18 | <sbalneav> Darn kids, resetting my box :)
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| 13:18 | Warcraft probably crashed :)
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| 13:20 | <Lns> warcraft on ltsp? ;)
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| 13:21 | <Lns> damn, this ddos is still happening??
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| 13:31 | <DawnLight> i can't edit the wiki
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| 13:33 | <sbalneav> Do you have a login id?
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| 13:34 | <DawnLight> i seem to be logged in using my sf.net
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| 13:36 | <DawnLight> https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Special:ListGroupRights
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| 13:36 | users got no edit perm
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| 13:37 | and you've been wondering why the wiki wasn't going anywhere...
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| 13:54 | <Lns> DawnLight: which wiki?
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| 13:55 | <Appiah> DawnLight: are you logged in?
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| 13:57 | <DawnLight> Lns: Appiah: i'm talking about
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| 13:58 | https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ltsp/index.php?title=Main_Page
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| 13:58 | see the previous link
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| 13:58 | <Appiah> I'll take it as a yes
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| 13:58 | <DawnLight> ah, sorry. oh. yes
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| 14:00 | i'll be back
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| 14:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey all
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| 14:24 | <Appiah> heya
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| 14:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> did the "x_conf =" disappear from lts.conf?
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| 14:25 | in 9.10
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| 14:25 | I'm referring to the functionality, mind you. :)
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: no, I don't think so (haven't tried, though). What makes you think that?
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| 14:26 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: I'm not seeing any effects in /var/log/Xorg.7.log when I am pointing to a perfectly good xorg.conf file
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| 14:26 | which I put on the chroot, *and* updated
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| 14:27 | so I know it's there.....
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Yeah that would be a valid reason to make you think that... :D
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| 14:28 | So getltscfg -a does return X_CONF=xxx?
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| 14:28 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: it shows everything in the lts.conf
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> And it's with capital letters and everything? ...time to look at the sources, then...
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| 14:29 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: X_CONF="/etc/X11/xorg_test.conf"
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Looks fine, so /me gives up...
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| 14:31 | <_UsUrPeR_> D:
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| 14:31 | ok
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| 14:37 | * alkisg is in the middle of his first ldap-installation, so no brain-matter to spare on looking at the sources now :D | |
| 14:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: if you need any help, let me know. I have in recent months become quite versed in ldapping
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| 14:39 | <alkisg> Hey, thanks, much appreciated.
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| 14:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> also, I know ldap is mighty confusing the first time around
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| 14:50 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: I've setup my server, and now I can e.g. do `id user` from the client, and I can "see" the ldap user. And, with `sudo su user` I can login as this user, but I can't login as `user` normally.
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| 14:50 | I'd like to try LDAP without NFS, for starters. So I guess I need some package to create the home dir on the client and to set the proper permissions. I've done the "LDAP Authentication" steps from <http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html>, what else would I need?
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| 14:51 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: is the user's home directory in existence?
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| 14:51 | alkisg: if not, is it created using skel upon login?
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Nope, but I should be able to login on the console without it
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| 14:52 | I can't even do `su user` now... so I must have some configuration wrong on the client
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| 14:52 | let me pastebin the auth logs...
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| 14:52 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: ok, let's ignore that for now then. could you pastebin me a "ldap-search -x", your /etc/nsswitch.conf, and /etc/ldap.conf?
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| 14:55 | <alkisg_client> The auth error: http://paste.ubuntu.com/344943/
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| 14:55 | ldapsearch -x: http://pastebin.com/f4d8202f2
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| 14:56 | nsswitch: http://pastebin.com/f1c5e4490
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| 14:57 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg / alkisg_client: is the server attempting to authenticate against the ldap server, or is it the separate client?
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> It's a seperate client
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| 14:57 | All those commands were issued from the client
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| 14:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> Is that a requirement that the client authenticates as opposed to the server?
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> Ah, I'm not sure I'm following
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| 14:58 | I just want to login to the client using a user from the ldap db
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| 14:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> typically, the LDAP authentication takes place on the server during ldm login on the client.
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| 14:59 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: can you pastebot your lts.conf?
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: It's not an LTSP installation...
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| 14:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: rgr, and thanks in advance :)
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| 14:59 | alkisg: haha oh :)
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| 15:00 | alkisg: do you have a /etc/ldap.conf?
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> Yes, both an /etc/ldap.conf and an /etc/ldap/ldap.conf !!!
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| 15:01 | <alkisg_client> /etc/ldap.conf: http://pastebin.com/f6e0e8489
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| 15:01 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: the /etc/ldap/ldap.conf is specific to ldap-search
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| 15:01 | it appears to be operating properly
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> All those files are from the client...
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| 15:01 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: yeah, that makes sense. gimme a moment to get this lts.conf to gadi
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> Sure, no hurry...
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| 15:05 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: http://pastebin.com/m75532fff
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| 15:05 | <Gadi> well, first off "screen" should be SCREEN
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| 15:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: the host line in the ldap.conf, have you attempted to use a reversed address?
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| 15:06 | <Gadi> in the first two lines
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| 15:06 | that should not impact X_CONF tho
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| 15:07 | <Gadi> on the client console, you should: ps -efw|grep X
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| 15:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> Gadi: I beg to differ. It functions properly independent of the capitalization. I am, after all, able to access screen_02's shell with this present lts.conf
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| 15:07 | <Gadi> and see what the X command line looks like
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| 15:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: one moment while I boot a client
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| 15:08 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: thats bizarre - unless somebody put code to capitalize parameters
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| 15:08 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: I believe they did, because what is returned from getltscfg -a is all in caps
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| 15:09 | <Gadi> huh.
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| 15:09 | go figure
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| 15:09 | and we never touch getltscfg
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| 15:09 | it's holy
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| 15:09 | it must have always done that
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| 15:09 | :)
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| 15:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> hah
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| 15:09 | anyway, I got two returns from that grep argument
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| 15:10 | <Gadi> either with a -config?
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| 15:10 | <_UsUrPeR_> lemme type it out
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| 15:10 | <Gadi> well, if there is one with an Xorg -config ....
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| 15:10 | thats the important one
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| 15:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> root 3286 3173 0 16:08 tty7 00:00:00 xinit /usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc /usr/bin/ldm -- :7 vt7 auth /var/run/ldm-auth-T31o4x3KP/Xauthority -config /etc/X11/via-xorg.conf -br
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| 15:11 | <Gadi> ah - that's a beautiful thing
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| 15:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> :/
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| 15:12 | alkisg: any luck?
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> Nah... :(
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| 15:12 | <Gadi> so, it is indeed using /etc/X11/via-xorg.conf
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| 15:12 | can you paste your Xorg.7.log?
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: It's something about authentication. I can authenticate when I run the ldap* utils as root, but not when I run them as a normal user. What's the SASL authentication? Do I need it, or plain authentication is enough?
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| 15:13 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: yeh. lemme scp it over
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| 15:13 | sasl is not needed for you to auth
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: if you run ltsp-localapps xterm, then you can just copy it to the current user's home dir
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| 15:13 | ...as it is mounted with sshfs
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| 15:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: unfortunately, there's no ldm or X screen within which to login and copy :)
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> Ah
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| 15:14 | vesa... :D
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| 15:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: http://pastebin.com/m6693dd42
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| 15:16 | <Gadi> (++) Using config file: "/etc/X11/via-xorg.conf"
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| 15:16 | :)]
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| 15:16 | <_UsUrPeR_> flpx
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| 15:17 | Gadi: WANNA LOOK AT AN XORG.CONF?!? :D
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| 15:17 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 15:18 | <_UsUrPeR_> gadi: gimme a moment
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| 15:18 | epiphany
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| 15:24 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: ok, I am thinking that the problem lies in your client's /etc/ldap.conf file. Have you attempted to apply a ldap:///<server ip> thing in there?
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: wouldn't that affect all the other things as well? E.g. now I'm able to do `id user` correctly...
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| 15:24 | So the server is contacted - it's just when I want to authenticate (==give the password) that I'm having problems :(
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| 15:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: what happens right now when you "finger teacher" on the client? tail -f /var/log/auth.log as you run the finger command
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| 15:25 | also, does "getent passwd" return the correct LDAP users?
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| 15:25 | alkisg: have you made any changes in /etc/pam.d?
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> Everything works fine, finger, getent etc
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| 15:25 | <_UsUrPeR_> weird
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| 15:26 | maybe it's a pam issue then
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> How does authentication work?
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| 15:26 | I.e. I've put a "secret" password to access the ldap database
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| 15:26 | And I've given it to the ldapscripts. But how will pam find that password?
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| 15:27 | User=admin with password=secret should be used to access the database
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| 15:27 | How will pam know to use password=secret?
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| 15:27 | <_UsUrPeR_> oh. huh. you put a required password for auth on the database. That is actually something I have not used yet
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> I did this: http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html
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| 15:29 | ...and I'm talking about the line: olcRootPW: secret
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| 15:29 | Also in the frontend: userPassword: secret
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| 15:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: on your client, put a line along the top that says "debug 3"
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> In ldap.conf?
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| 15:30 | <_UsUrPeR_> this will print a bunch of stuff as you attempt to connect to the ldap server
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| 15:30 | /etc/ldap.conf
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| 15:30 | if you could attempt to authenticate, and fail, and pastebin the output fromt he debug
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| 15:30 | s/he/the
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| 15:32 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg_client: remove the quotes from the debug 3
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| 15:32 | sorry, forgot to specify :)
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| 15:32 | <alkisg> woah I need to increase the terminal buffer... :D
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| 15:34 | I'll be damned! I changed the server.local to my ip, and it works...
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| 15:34 | It just wasn't resolving with avahi :(
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| 15:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> :D
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| 15:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: so it was the host?
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| 15:35 | <alkisg> Thanks _UsUrPeR_ :) Yup, it was the host.
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| 15:35 | Now to find how to automatically create the home dirs, and how to cache credentials...
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| 15:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: I can help you with the home dirs part
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| 15:37 | I'll pastebin you a proper common-session
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> Danke! :)
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| 15:38 | * alkisg can properly login with LDAP! Yey! | |
| 15:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> alkisg: http://pastebin.com/m532c98bb
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| 15:38 | the important line is the one with skel
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| 15:39 | starting with session optional
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| 15:40 | <alkisg> Thanks! Wow, the users even show up in the fusa applet...
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| 15:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> ldap is a cantankerous jerk, but it's a useful cantankerous jerk.
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| 15:42 | alkisg: check out LAM for user management
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| 15:42 | it is, thus far, the easiest and quickest way to manage ldap.
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| 15:43 | s/thus far/as far as I have seen
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| 15:43 | * alkisg wonders why he was bothering with users-admin all this time... :( | |
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Hm... I also need to make sure that the clients internet connection is active *before* logon, and also a way to cache credentials, and to make samba use ldap, and then to package all this in a nice .deb... Well... christmas holidays should be enough for all of that :D
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| 15:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> yow
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| 15:47 | I'm going to go home tomorrow and finally finish "Dragon Age"
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> I've almost finished the last "monkey island" along with my kids... It was so nice that yesterday I ordered the game online, even though I already had it... :)
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| 15:52 | Yawn... it's late here, g'night all. Thanks again _UsUrPeR_!
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| 16:00 | <stgraber> vagrantc: you don't happen to be an admin for ltsp-developer ? (the ML on sourceforge) ?
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| 16:00 | or anyone currently around here ?
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> no, i forget who does that
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| 16:01 | one of those thankless jobs
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| 16:01 | but really important
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| 16:02 | <stgraber> I just sent a mail with an attachment and wondered if someone could approve it, otherwise I'll just upload that somewhere and re-send the mail without it
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| 16:27 | <Gadi> stgraber: saw your email
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| 16:27 | lots of inneficiencies in ltsp_entry for sure
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| 16:27 | *inefficiencies
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| 16:29 | <stgraber> Gadi: yeah, it's interesting to see the number of times awk/env/grep are called, we're clearly doing something wrong somewhere ;)
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| 16:29 | <Gadi> I'll help you fix if you test
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| 16:29 | :)
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| 16:29 | <stgraber> I measured a 4s boot time change if I drop 80-ltspfsd :)
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| 16:30 | <stgraber> no problem, testing I can easily do :)
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| 16:30 | <Gadi> good deal
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> stgraber: still here?
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| 16:49 | I think the problem is in ltsp_config
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| 16:49 | here: server=$(pgrep -f -l $DEVICE | awk '{print $3}')
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| 16:49 | if we can do that withour pgrep and awk, we would be much better served
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| 16:50 | <johnny> what is it doing exactly?
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| 16:50 | the pgrep part
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| 16:50 | is it looking for some dhcp thing?
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| 16:51 | <stgraber> 80-ltspfsd is loading ltsp_config ?
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> yeah
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| 16:51 | <stgraber> that's weird. Anyway, I have to go for a while, I'll look at it a bit later tonight, feel free to paste any idea on IRC, I'll look at the backlog
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> so that we can control behavior via lts.conf vars
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| 16:51 | <johnny> Gadi, are you trying to find a real command that does it? or trying to use a shell built in?
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| 16:51 | <Gadi> shell built in
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| 16:52 | johnny: in ltsp_config that line tries to determine the server IP address from the nbd mount
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| 16:52 | <johnny> ah.. only for nbd..
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| 16:52 | ?
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| 16:52 | <dmarkey_> Gadi: hey
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| 16:52 | <Gadi> yeah - its part of an if clause
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| 16:52 | <johnny> hmm.. but why are we determining it from there Gadi ? isn't it set as SERVER in /etc/hosts ?
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| 16:52 | <Gadi> if there are nbd mounts, try to figure out the ip from the nbd mount
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| 16:53 | no, /etc/hosts gets set by it
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| 16:53 | <johnny> ah :)
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| 16:53 | <Gadi> on the fly
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| 16:53 | <johnny> thought that happened on install..
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| 16:53 | <Gadi> nah - you can set SERVER in lts.conf
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| 16:53 | <johnny> but could be overridden
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| 16:53 | <Gadi> and it will write to /etc/hosts
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| 16:53 | well, both may be true
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| 16:54 | <dmarkey_> Gadi: have yu tried SPICE?
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| 16:54 | <Gadi> but it still looks for an lts.conf var and then tries to divine it
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| 16:54 | <johnny> Gadi, switch the chroot to busybox? :)
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| 16:54 | lol
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| 16:54 | <Gadi> dmarkey_: not yet, but I have seen demos
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| 16:54 | seems great for 1:1 VM:client
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| 16:54 | would be nice if it could be used in a terminal services env
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| 16:55 | <dmarkey_> Gadi: SPICE + kvm + LTSP could be a good combination
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| 16:55 | and our broker we wer talking about
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| 16:55 | <Gadi> well, that's easily achieved, but you would not connect back to the linux box as a terminal server
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| 16:56 | you would need 1:1 VM:client
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| 16:56 | <dmarkey_> yep
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| 16:56 | i like that model better :)
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| 16:56 | <Gadi> I dont think you even need kvm in that equation
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| 16:56 | just spice cclient in the chroot
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| 16:57 | and a datacenter with VMs
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| 16:57 | running solid ice
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| 16:57 | <dmarkey_> kvm as the virtualisation pkatform
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> the client doesnt need kvm
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| 16:57 | only the data center
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| 16:57 | afaik
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| 16:57 | <dmarkey_> oh yea i know
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| 16:57 | all thats needed is the spice client
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> that model is great, when you have lots of resources
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| 16:58 | <dmarkey_> some people do
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| 16:58 | <Gadi> indeed
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| 16:58 | <dmarkey_> and the multimedia performance is superb
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| 16:58 | <Gadi> most are not in LTSP
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| 16:58 | :)
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| 17:00 | <dmarkey_> have you not set up VDI based solutions?
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| 17:00 | <Gadi> I have
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| 17:00 | <dmarkey_> with LTSP as the client piece?
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| 17:01 | <Gadi> sure
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| 17:01 | <dmarkey_> sothat was a 1:1
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| 17:01 | <Gadi> but, I am not representative of most on LTSP
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| 17:01 | <Gadi> and I have to say true 1:1 VDIs have been fewer and farther between
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| 17:01 | many more terminal servers
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| 17:02 | VDI is still a baby
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| 17:02 | people are still playing with it in smaller doses
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| 17:02 | <dmarkey_> i believe its going to be popular pretty soon, alot of big corporations are using it
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| 17:02 | <Gadi> "using it"
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| 17:03 | more like started to experiment with it
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| 17:03 | <dmarkey_> according to VMWare marketing :)
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| 17:03 | <Gadi> :)
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| 17:03 | thats why you need always need to check ur sources
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| 17:03 | bbiab
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| 17:04 | <dmarkey_> but. i believe its the only way to get good multimedia performance from LTSP without "local-apps"
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| 17:04 | <Gadi> it has nothing to do with LTSP at that point
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| 17:05 | <dmarkey_> which
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| 17:05 | <Gadi> and I can argue that gstreamer can be used to achieve the same result
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| 17:05 | in a terminal services env
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| 17:05 | but someone needs to code it
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| 17:05 | <dmarkey_> and session mobility
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| 17:08 | <Gadi> true
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| 17:09 | <dmarkey_> i know people in here dont agree with the 1:1 model.
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| 17:09 | <Gadi> its not that they dont agree, its that in many cases it is not practical for them
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| 17:10 | it is a more expensive solution, and in many ways inherits management issues of PCs
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| 17:11 | which translates into even more expense
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| 17:11 | <dmarkey_> well the right tools, that can be minimised
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| 17:11 | <Gadi> the right tools cost money
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| 17:12 | and training
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| 17:12 | Im not saying it isnt a better way technically
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| 17:12 | <dmarkey_> if the VMs were linux i dont see any management overhead, except VM lifecycle
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| 17:13 | <Gadi> you don't, huh?
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| 17:13 | * dmarkey_ thinks | |
| 17:13 | <dmarkey_> ermm.. authentication and storage
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| 17:14 | <Gadi> take a look at what all the tools of a vmware or a xenserver that cost money aim to solve
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| 17:14 | usually things like "vm sprawl" "automation" "policy-based migration"
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| 17:15 | and that just in vm mgmt
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| 17:15 | now, lets talk about how to push out changes to all of your running Linux VMs
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| 17:15 | say, you want to add software to all of them
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| 17:15 | <dmarkey_> updates?
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| 17:15 | <Gadi> I decide I really like abiword
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| 17:16 | <dmarkey_> it rocks alright
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| 17:16 | <Gadi> now you have me writing scripts to ssh into all running VMs to update them
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| 17:16 | and configure things properly
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| 17:16 | <dmarkey_> dsh already exists :)
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| 17:16 | <Gadi> or you have me swapping out their VMs when they arent looking
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| 17:16 | whatever
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| 17:16 | you have lots of things to manage
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| 17:17 | and yes, there are tools
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| 17:17 | <dmarkey_> there's another twist here
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| 17:17 | i see spice can add more than one virtual gfx card
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| 17:17 | i wonder if one client can connect to one, and another to the second
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| 17:18 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 17:18 | yeah, there's lots to play with
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| 17:18 | and the one that makes things easy and perform well wins
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| 17:18 | :)
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| 17:19 | <dmarkey_> so back to our 1:1 model
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| 17:19 | if / was a RO nfs share
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| 17:19 | all we have to do is update the "master" machine
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| 17:20 | in fact the VM's could pxe boot
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| 17:20 | <Gadi> qemu has a cow feature
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| 17:20 | you could use that
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| 17:20 | <dmarkey_> well, lvm snapshotting would be the same?
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| 17:22 | <Gadi> any way we cut it - its all academic to a point
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| 17:23 | <dmarkey_> with NFS, the update would be done once on the server and the client would be patched right away. with COW the VM would have to be "cycled" if you know what i mean
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| 17:27 | windows VMs would have to be mostly the desktop model, i would imagine
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| 17:27 | <akuepker> I must say, LTSP5 is very nice. We have two sets of very happy users here that were just migrated from LTSP 4>5.
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