IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 16 April 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:45 | <ska> Is there a list of good thin-client hardware? Espeicially clients.
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| 06:46 | I'd like to boot from CF or some other type of flash.
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| 06:53 | <muppis> You don't need any local media to boot thin. It boots over lan from server.
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| 07:07 | <ska> Do the thins need to keep an NSF connection to the server permanent?
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| 07:09 | <alkisg> NFS? Yes, either nfs or nbd or aoe or something
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| 07:09 | <ska> Ok, I thought there was an option for one-time upload to static image.
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| 07:10 | <alkisg> No, LTSP is about netbooted terminals with no local storage (or if there's a local storage, we don't use it for booting)
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| 07:12 | <Roasted> ska, to give you an idea, in my test bed when I tested LTSP at first, I let Windows on the local hard drives but simply adjusted the boot menu to boot to network first, thereby ignoring the local hard drive (and Windows) even existed.
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| 07:12 | <ska> alkisg: ok, I thought there might be an option that stores the / tree in a Ramfs/squashfs or similar. That was a network hickup won't crash the client.
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| 07:12 | <Roasted> That way if Ubuntu was too much of a shock they could F9 during boot and select HDD and go back to Windows instead.
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| 07:12 | <ska> s/was/way
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| 07:13 | <alkisg> ska: if the client isn't logged on to the server when the hickup happens, then no big deal there. If it's logged on, then you have an ssh connection, so even if you had the image loaded in RAM, the client would still crash on network problems
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| 07:13 | So you don't really save much with a local image, except in some other use cases like fat clients on slow networks etc
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| 07:14 | <Roasted> alkisg, on a fat client lab, if the network hiccups, does it exhibit the same problem a thin client lab would?
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> Well we need to better define "hiccup" here
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| 07:14 | <Roasted> enough of a hiccup to break the connection
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| 07:14 | a downed switch etc.
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| 07:14 | <alkisg> E.g. nbd has the -persist option, which reconnects
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| 07:15 | So, the fat client disk will be reconnected
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| 07:15 | <ska> Hiccup = 5 second network outtage
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> But, ssh doesn't reconnect
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| 07:15 | So any sessions are lost
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| 07:15 | On fat clients though, that doesn't matter much
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| 07:15 | <Roasted> so you're stuck whether fat or thin if a drop occurs
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| 07:15 | <alkisg> After the initial authentication, the session runs locally
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| 07:15 | But, there's a problem with /home, which by default is with sshfs
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| 07:15 | That too, will get disconnected
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| 07:16 | But if you use nfs /home, then there's reconnection there
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| 07:16 | <Roasted> but since clients go "through" the server for network access, they wouldn't suffer from that if a drop happens?
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> In short, nbd and nfs reconnect, ssh doesn't
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| 07:16 | <Roasted> does fat use ssh?
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| 07:16 | or just thin
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| 07:16 | <alkisg> All use ssh for authentication
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| 07:17 | Fats and localapps normally use ssh for /home too, but they can also use NFS if instructed
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| 07:17 | (sshfs)
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| 07:18 | <Roasted> after authentication, is ssh not used?
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| 07:19 | <alkisg> Thins: the whole session is through ssh
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| 07:19 | Fats: ssh is basically used for sshfs /home
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| 07:19 | <Roasted> man I really hope I can get fats working someday :(
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| 07:19 | I don't use /home on fats. I just set links to our storage servers and students click accordingly.
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> strace -e trace=file "command-to-join-domain"
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| 07:21 | This will show you the files that likewise stores the domain joining info
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| 07:21 | <Roasted> I join the domain via terminal anyway
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| 07:21 | would that help?
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| 07:21 | <alkisg> Then you could store those files *per terminal*
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| 07:21 | I.e. join each client separately, as if it were a standalone machine
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| 07:22 | <Roasted> but how... if each session is like a live disk...
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> Store those files on the server, and on boot fetch them
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| 07:22 | A live disk with /home on the server
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| 07:22 | You can also have other stuff on the server, and copy them locally
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| 07:22 | It's not hard, 2-3 lines in a startup script
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| 07:22 | <Roasted> so do what.. put hem in /etc/skel so each profile gets them?
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| 07:22 | <alkisg> No, it's per client, not per user
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| 07:23 | You'd save the "domain joining" info
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| 07:23 | And reapply it on each boot, for each different client
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| 07:23 | It's pretty easy once you find out which files likewise writes to
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| 07:24 | <Roasted> And you think that will remove the authentication BS I run into?
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| 07:24 | <alkisg> It'll make them "identical" to standalone machines
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| 07:24 | Do you have that authentication BS on standalone machines/
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| 07:24 | ?
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| 07:24 | <Roasted> Nope.
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| 07:25 | only fat clients.
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> Then nope on fats too
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| 07:25 | <Roasted> Would this be rejoining them each time, or would it just be referencing files that makes ethe connection possible?
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| 07:25 | <alkisg> Take another example. Hostname
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| 07:25 | Each ltsp client needs a different hostname. What do we do? We make a startup script that generates a hostname
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| 07:25 | Yours would be similar, except it'd copy some files instead of generating them
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| 07:25 | No, you'd only join them once
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| 07:28 | <Roasted> So there's two angles here I need to accomplish. I need to find the files likewise opens during the boot process and copy them locally to each box. On the flip side, I also need to write a script o generate a hostname for each client.
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| 07:28 | Can I create 30 hostnames and have each box at random just pull one of the hostnames from that pool as they fire up?
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> Ermmm no, the hostname was an example
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| 07:28 | Forget about it
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| 07:28 | <Roasted> I see
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| 07:28 | <alkisg> (1) you need to find out the files that likewise modifies when *you join a domain*. Not on boot.
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| 07:29 | (2) You need to boot all clients and join them to the domain, and *save that files on the server*
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| 07:29 | (3) Then you need a script that copies those files from the server to the client on boot, to their appropriate places
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| 07:30 | <Roasted> so the client needs to get its exact files on boot... nobody elses
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| 07:30 | but its files from when it was joined
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> Right
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| 07:30 | Last message repeated 1 time(s). | |
| 07:30 | <alkisg> Probably just a couple of files, a few kb
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| 07:30 | <Roasted> right. that's what I would expect.
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| 07:30 | <alkisg> You could use tftp or anything for that, or even store them to the chroot
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| 07:30 | <Roasted> I might be kind of lost on the creation of the script, however it sounds like it would be simple.
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> So the (2) and (3) parts are trivial
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| 07:31 | The (1) part would be trivial for someone with likewise knowledge
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| 07:31 | <Roasted> I can post on likewise forums for that.
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| 07:31 | While very helpful, they were a bit lost on what I was asking about the fat client authentication thing.
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> OK. You can then try to reproduce it manually, i.e. do parts (2) and (3) with shell commands without scrpit
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| 07:31 | script
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| 07:32 | You didn't word it correctly
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| 07:32 | (probably)
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| 07:32 | You could say "I boot a live cd and join a domain"
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| 07:32 | <Roasted> Not too sure... I spent a lot of time on it.
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| 07:32 | What would you think is more practical? Storing the files to the chroot or scripting it?
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| 07:32 | <alkisg> "what files do I need to save, so that if I reboot the live cd, I can fetch those files and have the computer join the domain without reentering passwords etc"?
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| 07:32 | Both are trivial, no big deal there, don't worry about (2) and (3)
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| 07:33 | <Roasted> I'll repost and ask that question the way you just worded it.
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| 07:35 | <alkisg> Btw you can then put the AD authentication stuff on the chroot
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| 07:35 | And stop using ldm, and use gdm instead
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| 07:35 | <Roasted> what are the advantages?
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> With ad authentication directly on the client you wouldn't need ssh at all
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| 07:36 | So no problem at all with network hiccups
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| 07:36 | <Roasted> but if I'm already on a fat client, network hiccups would be rare to be effected by anyway
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| 07:36 | <alkisg> But that would require a few minor scripts. Leave that for later
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| 07:36 | Not really, because your whole /home is with sshfs
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| 07:37 | <Roasted> but I don't really use /home for the users.
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| 07:37 | Their "/home" is our windows file server I have links to on the desktop.
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> So any hiccup would break the connection, and your fat client wouldn't even have access to the desktop settings, wallpaper etc
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| 07:37 | <Roasted> oh
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| 07:37 | I see
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> It's not only "documents", you have "~/.local", "~/.gconf" etc
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| 07:38 | <Roasted> yeah... I get what you mean now
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| 07:38 | well, I posted on likewise forums so we'll see what they say.
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| 07:42 | alkisg, is there anything that brewed up in the time discussion you were working on?
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> I filed a bug about it in upstart
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| 07:42 | <Roasted> anything else I can test on my end?
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| 07:42 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/759568
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| 07:43 | Nope, no need, I know exactly when it happens now
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| 07:43 | <Roasted> nice, nice
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| 07:43 | if there's anything I can do to help test please let me know
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> Your time problem is solved now, right?
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| 07:44 | <Roasted> Well it works fine for me, however last we talked I didn't try anything new, and you sounded like you were on to something heavy at the moment.
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| 07:44 | So I just kind of sat in "stand by" until I heard more.l
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> Yes, the problem wasn't related to time only
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| 07:44 | That's why I looked more into it
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| 07:44 | <Roasted> I forget which line I used... because I had 3 options from what gadi/vagrantc/and you suggested to me.
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> Something, maybe upstart, kills any processes spawned by initscripts if they delay
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| 07:45 | <Roasted> but you also gave me 2 lines from what I'm reading here
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| 07:45 | <alkisg> It doesn't matter now, I've seen when it happens
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| 07:45 | <Roasted> I think I was still using vagrantc's suggestion
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| 07:45 | Sounds good. Appreciate the help.
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| 07:45 | I'll bookmark the bug so I can track it.
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| 10:22 | <andygraybeal> does anyone here use opennebula, and if so..do you recommend it to others?
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| 10:23 | i still haven't gotten into clustering, but i would like to be able to cluster for highavailability (if one system decides it wants to fail)
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| 10:46 | <alkisg_tinycore> Opera on tinycore Linux. RAM usage: 56 MB :O
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| 10:46 | <andygraybeal> nice
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| 10:47 | prolly kicks the pants off of firefox, yes?
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| 10:47 | <alkisg_tinycore> Yup, it uses half the RAM and has double the speed of debian/lxde/firefox that I tried installing locally on that old thin client with 128 RAM
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| 13:22 | <andygraybeal> anyone virtualizing their LTSP machines, i need some help
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| 13:23 | how do you get two network cards on an LTSP virtual machine... and hvae the second network card send out DHCP addresses to real physical clients?
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| 13:23 | <abeehc> vlans i figure
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| 13:23 | do you have two in the host?
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| 13:23 | <andygraybeal> yea, there are two nics in the host
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| 13:24 | i'm using KVM/libvirt
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| 13:24 | <abeehc> it's not pretty really
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| 13:24 | i think you gotta create two br interfaces
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| 13:24 | <andygraybeal> neither is my girlfriend, but it still works.
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| 13:24 | <abeehc> im realy intimate
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| 13:24 | <andygraybeal> abeehc, that's what i'm thinking... but the second br would be static? i'm so confused by this
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| 13:25 | <abeehc> I'm not sure yo uneed to give the host an ip on the second br
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| 13:25 | <andygraybeal> it needs something, right?
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| 13:25 | static or dhcp?
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| 13:25 | <abeehc> ive got a real serious cold though.. lemme just see how my vlans go again
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| 13:25 | <andygraybeal> can't be just nothing ... yes?
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| 13:25 | <muppis> Manual in host.
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| 13:25 | <abeehc> manual i think
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| 13:26 | <andygraybeal> is manual different from static?
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| 13:26 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 13:26 | Static requreis settings, manual leaves is it as is.
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| 13:26 | <andygraybeal> ah.. confusion.. must read
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| 13:26 | okay thank you muppis
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| 13:26 | i just sent this out to the list too
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| 13:26 | <abeehc> yeah even for my vlans after the primary interface evertyhing is manual
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| 13:27 | <andygraybeal> can you pastebin a /etc/network/interfaces config for me?
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| 13:28 | <abeehc> i can it has some other funny stuff too
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| 13:28 | <andygraybeal> or just email me
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| 13:28 | if you want
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| 13:28 | andy dot graybeal at casa nueva dot com
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| 13:29 | <abeehc> http://pastebin.com/gYz9BheE
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| 13:29 | that does work for my vlanning switch
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| 13:30 | <andygraybeal> what brand/model do you have?
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| 13:30 | <abeehc> it struck me the other day an interesting thing to play with on the guest is noop io
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| 13:30 | <andygraybeal> i've been swooning over an HP
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| 13:30 | <abeehc> i try an only use hp
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| 13:30 | procurve 2848 '
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| 13:30 | * andygraybeal looks it up | |
| 13:30 | <abeehc> little old but capable
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| 13:30 | really.. it's overkill at home
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| 13:31 | but my real girlfriend doesn't come into my office and look at my other girlfriends
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| 13:31 | thy are all kinda loud too real or otherwise
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| 13:31 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 13:32 | when you say it's a little old, what do yuo mean? i'm thinking about buying it for our small office here at wokr
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| 13:32 | <abeehc> i'm pretty sure mfg date is about 3-4 years ago.. i have some friends in a big company; gave me 5 of them for nothin
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| 13:32 | rececycleftw
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| 13:32 | <andygraybeal> wow
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| 13:32 | it supports vlans?
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| 13:32 | i mean iobviously
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| 13:33 | and it's GB!
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| 13:33 | they is selling $500+ a pop on ebay
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| 13:33 | i'll buy one from you if you want to sell
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| 13:33 | if your in the states i guess
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| 13:33 | ididn't think abou tthat sort of thing
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| 13:35 | <abeehc> i would but i only kept one and more or less donated the rest to my work cause we are poor
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| 13:36 | for sure i couldn't go without decent vlanning anymore heh
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| 13:36 | <andygraybeal> how do you control them, is it web interface or command line (or both?)
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| 13:37 | i've never used a managed switch before and i'm a little scared, and this is the cheapest 48 port GB one i've seen so far!
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| 13:38 | <abeehc> both are available provided your patient enough for the web java
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| 13:38 | i pref the command line it's quicker
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| 13:38 | <andygraybeal> ah okay awesome
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| 13:39 | <andygraybeal> so the switch has an ip address and can handle different network segments all at once... this is what i need
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| 13:39 | <abeehc> absolutely
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| 13:39 | <andygraybeal> awesome, i'm going to get one off of ebay
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| 13:40 | abeehc, what is your work?
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| 13:42 | <andygraybeal> abeehc, ah you have a config error in your interfaces file!
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| 13:42 | <abeehc> i wouldn't be suprised haha
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| 13:43 | <andygraybeal> spelled bridge wrong @ bottom of br0 config paragraph
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| 13:43 | line from the bottom
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| 13:43 | switched letters
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| 13:43 | typo
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| 13:43 | hah same for all of them
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| 13:43 | <abeehc> lol
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| 13:44 | it works i think that string is not so strict
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| 13:44 | but that doesn't look too smart
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| 13:44 | <andygraybeal> thank you for this config and teaching me about that switch
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| 13:44 | <abeehc> no worries good luck
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| 13:45 | <andygraybeal> does anyone here use swipe cards for authentication to LTSP?
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| 13:47 | <NeonLicht> In case someone else (besides me) didn't know what swipe cards are: http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dre0911l.jpg
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| 14:29 | <andygraybeal> NeonLicht, awesome thank you
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| 14:29 | hah, awful
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| 14:31 | <NeonLicht> haha
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| 14:32 | <andygraybeal> :)
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| 14:53 | <andygraybeal> abeehc, if yuor still around.. i'm wondering being set to manual, does something need to turn it on? .... or does it just work ... with the bridged connection?
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| 14:58 | <abeehc> hmm well you do need br-utils package i think
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| 14:59 | then your vm config file needs to reference that bridge itnerface
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| 15:15 | <abeehc> i think ifconfig should give you indication everythign went right if your troubleshooting the host boot anyway
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| 16:32 | <herman_> Hi all
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| 16:32 | I need some help :-)
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| 16:33 | <vagrantc> go ahead and ask questions, and patiently wait for people to be available who can help... please include the distro and version/release you're using.
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| 16:49 | <herman_> I have a unstable internet connection on my LTSP server and I cannot find the cause of that
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| 19:34 | <afz0r> Hello there! Does anybody know about a howto or guide to set up LTSP to work with the slim login manager? All I see in the manual are gdm, kdm and xdm
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| 19:37 | <vagrantc> afz0r: does slim support xdmcp?
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| 19:37 | afz0r: or are you talking about fatclients?
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| 19:38 | <afz0r> vagrantc, not sure slim supports xdmcp, but I would guess it doesn't! netstat ap | grep xdmcp doesn't return anything
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> afz0r: if it does support xdmcp, you'd probably have to configure it
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| 19:39 | <afz0r> I was wondering if it could be configured to support it or something
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> but in general, xdmcp is deprecated
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| 19:40 | <afz0r> doesn't say anything about xdmcp on the slim home-page or the slim manual.
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> i doubt it supports it
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| 19:41 | <afz0r> Nope
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> at least from the package description: "It is particularly suitable for machines that don't require remote logins."
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| 19:42 | that sounds pretty explicitly like it doesn't support xdmcp
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| 19:42 | <afz0r> Just looked at the archwiki (I don't currently use Arch but this wiki has a lot of info) and it says slim doesn't support it
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| 19:42 | <vagrantc> afz0r: are you doing fatclients?
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| 19:42 | afz0r: because otherwise, i'd say stick with LDM
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| 19:42 | <afz0r> vagrantc, I'm doing thin clients, as far as I know, so I'll just switch to--I was going to say xdm
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| 19:42 | but if ldm works, hey why not
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| 19:43 | <vagrantc> afz0r: the default LTSP is to use LDM
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| 19:43 | afz0r: what distro?
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| 19:43 | <afz0r> vagrantc, I'm using LTSP-3
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| 19:43 | <vagrantc> ?!?!
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| 19:43 | <afz0r> I know!
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| 19:44 | See, I'm setting it up at my workplace, and the guy in charge insists that we use version 3, on RedHat 5 servers. It's madness.
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| 19:44 | <vagrantc> LTSP 5 has been around for what, 5-6 years now
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| 19:44 | i don't know how long ago LTSP 4.x was released ...
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| 19:44 | madness indeed.
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| 19:45 | <afz0r> Yeah, already put up a suggestion up pretty much everyone, that we use LTSP 5 or at least 4.
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| 19:45 | But no...
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| 19:45 | <afz0r> Anyway, it pretty much works except it's not linking to a display manager.
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| 19:45 | I'll get ldm and xdm and test it with those
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| 19:46 | <vagrantc> LDM won't work
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| 19:46 | there may be incompatibilities implemented in the X server that just plain won't work
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| 19:46 | <afz0r> Ah, that's good to know
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| 19:47 | And I guess gdm would be too much bloat
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> although presumably redhat 5 is old enough that it'll be compatible
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| 19:47 | with xdmcp
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| 19:47 | <afz0r> Yep
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| 19:47 | <vagrantc> i.e. xdm, gdm, kdm should all be configurable with xdmcp
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| 19:48 | afz0r: they're logging into the same server running the LTSP 3 install?
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| 19:48 | or are you trying to log into other servers?
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| 19:49 | <afz0r> vagrantc, they are logging into the server running the LTSP 3 install
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| 19:49 | There won't ever be more than perhaps 15 people connected to it at the same time, at any given time
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| 19:50 | Well, I'm off to do some testing and stuffs, brb then!
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> just trying to make sure you aren't connecting to some newer server
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| 19:51 | <afz0r> vagrantc, nope
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| 00:00 | --- Sun Apr 17 2011 | |