IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 August 2009 (all times are UTC)
| 00:01 | <johnny> i realize that i never actually use afk..
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| 00:01 | only brb
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| 00:01 | or bbl
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| 00:01 | or bbiab..
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| 00:06 | <dalik> just wrapping my head about new terms for me. the chroot enviroment is a very basic linux enviroment for the thin cilents to use. The docs talk about updating the software so this would talk about the core files such as xserver, gnome but not applications like firefox. Just the basic files needed to boot the client. Thus ltsp-build-image or ltsp-update-image will download new updates and apply them. This sounds about right?
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| 00:07 | <johnny> not the last part
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| 00:07 | ltsp-build-image does the initial work..
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| 00:07 | you usually only want to run the very first time.. or after a distro upgrade
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| 00:08 | in which case you'd destroy your chroot and start over..
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| 00:08 | that is recommended anyways..technically you can upgrade it.. but it's easier to just remake it
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| 00:08 | ltsp-update-image only does the imaging.. no package updates
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| 00:08 | if you install packages in the chroot, then you must update the image yourself
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| 00:09 | <dalik> ok cool
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| 00:09 | <johnny> it's rare that you actually need to update the image software
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| 00:09 | i myself have to tho.. for local login.. i had to put an ssh key in there
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| 00:09 | or rather for autologin..
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| 00:09 | <dalik> fair enough, I am just trying to understand the seperation between the clients and the server and how to change things for the clients.
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| 00:10 | thanks for the help
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| 00:11 | <johnny> most everything you need to change happens on the server
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| 00:12 | altho some settings can be changed in lts.conf.. but tha'ts not in the image.. it's in the tftpboot dir /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
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| 00:12 | check lts-parameters.txt.gz for info about available parameters
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| 00:49 | <dalik> very good, thanks again for the help. I have enough to make good progress. client booting into xfce and now I am going to tinker a fair bit. I love virtulization ! :)
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| 01:20 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 05:03 | <garymc> Hi, need some advice on RAID setup for LTSP and an Asterisk box
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| 05:03 | At minute im experimenting with RAID 1 for my LTSP setup
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| 05:03 | So if I got 4 X 72GB drives in ill only have about 68 gb of space
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| 05:04 | am i best using another Raid config?
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| 05:04 | Also for Asterisk i want to store alot of Call recordings so would I be best using RAID 5
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| 05:04 | im looking for the best config to replace a faulty drive if it occurs
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| 08:29 | <elias_a> Hello!
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| 08:30 | A ltsp user using Ubuntu 8.04 server asked me about how to play audio cds in a terminal.
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| 08:30 | Apparently it is not a trivial task.
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| 08:31 | Any other hints than ripping it to .wav or .ogg files and using in that format?
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| 08:38 | <garymc> anyone recommend a good raid setup of HD for LTSP
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| 08:47 | <ace_suares> hi
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| 08:51 | <bieb> garymc: how do you have it setup now?
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| 08:52 | <garymc> hi bieb
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| 08:52 | <bieb> hi garymc
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| 08:52 | <garymc> I just put 4 146 gb scsi drives in
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| 08:53 | <bieb> how much of the drive is going to be used?
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| 08:53 | how many users?
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| 08:53 | <garymc> 3 of them as a logical drive, one of the 3 is a spare. And a single 146gb in RAID 0
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| 08:53 | ?? dont know yet
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| 08:53 | <bieb> ok.. putting a single drive in as raid 0... why?
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| 08:53 | <garymc> I was hoping to use the 146gb RAID 0 as a mass storage, but when i click on it in the file system, it says unable to mount
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| 08:54 | Just for pure disk space... i guess
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| 08:55 | <bieb> raid 0 is a striped set.. but if you are doing it on one drive, you are not protecting data from hardware failure
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| 08:55 | know what I mean?
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| 08:56 | <garymc> yep
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| 08:56 | ok so i setup wrong
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| 08:56 | <bieb> so I wouldnt do that
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| 08:56 | <garymc> back to the drawing board lol
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| 08:56 | <bieb> what raid card are you using?
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| 08:57 | <Q-FUNK> :)
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| 08:57 | <garymc> HP smart Array 5i
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| 08:57 | <bieb> is it actual card? or on the motherboard?
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| 08:58 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:58 | <bieb> Scotty!!!!!!!!
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| 08:59 | <garymc> bieb i think its on motherboard
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| 09:00 | <bieb> if it is software raid.. that may be part of the issue of not being able to mount it.
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| 09:00 | garymc: how many drives does the card support?
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| 09:00 | <garymc> 6
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| 09:01 | <bieb> what I would do is... 2-drives in Raid 1 for the base OS, then 3 in Raid 5 for /home
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| 09:01 | <laga> why not five for raid 5?
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| 09:02 | <bieb> laga.. that way if you lose an OS drive, it is already mirrored and separate from the user's data
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| 09:03 | <laga> well, why is a degraded raid 1 better than a degraded raid 5?
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| 09:03 | <sbalneav> Raid 5's pretty grim, If it were me, I'd just do all 6 drives in a raid 1+0 (or raid10) configg, and partition /home off in it's own partition
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| 09:04 | <bieb> not that one is better than the other.. but you are keeping the data separate from the OS
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| 09:04 | <sbalneav> So, have, root, swap, and /home
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| 09:07 | <garymc> so how do i do that when i install LTSP ubuntu? doe sit give me options?
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| 09:07 | I know how to setup the RAID stuff
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| 09:07 | first
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| 09:07 | <bieb> raid is prior to install
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| 09:07 | <garymc> yeah i know how to do that
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| 09:08 | arto has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:08 | <garymc> but how do I make the ubuntu install the way you explain above
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| 09:09 | <arto> how does one get the thinclients to authenticate to an LDAP in LTSP in unbuntu 8.10? The wiki doesn't really explain in well.
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| 09:09 | * stgraber just found a big issue with ldm | |
| 09:10 | <stgraber> if someone prefix its username by a space
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| 09:10 | it'll work for login but will copy all of the thin client harddisk to the server
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| 09:10 | <laga> stgraber: that is kinda awesome
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| 09:10 | <sbalneav> Wha?
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| 09:10 | <stgraber> because mktemp will get a path contain a space, will fail and return nothing, then it'll copy /* instead of /tmp/ltsp-*/* to the server
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| 09:11 | <Blinny> Woah
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| 09:11 | <laga> stgraber: oh, btw. did you see the mythbuntu patch?
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| 09:11 | <stgraber> scp -r -o "ControlPath $LDM_SOCKET" -o "User $LDM_USERNAME" ${TMP_XDG_DIR_LOCAL}/* ${LDM_SERVER}:${TMP_XDG_MENU}
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| 09:11 | laga: should have been merged with last upload
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| 09:11 | <laga> stgraber: thanks!
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| 09:11 | <stgraber> if $LDM_USERNAME contains a space, then $TMP_XDG_DIR_LOCAL is empty
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| 09:11 | making it copy /* to the server
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| 09:12 | <sbalneav> ah, with all the scripts.
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| 09:13 | Probably just need to clean the username variable in the C program.
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| 09:13 | <stgraber> yeah, I have a patch for that that I'm testing
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| 09:13 | - user_env = g_strconcat("LDM_USERNAME=", ldm.username, NULL);
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| 09:13 | + user_env = g_strconcat("LDM_USERNAME=", g_strstrip(ldm.username), NULL);
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| 09:13 | <sbalneav> garymc: Ubuntu gives you the option on install of creating additional partitions
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| 09:13 | <stgraber> does that make sense ? (just had a look at glib doc and found this one)
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| 09:14 | <sbalneav> stgraber: If it was me, I'd just strip it when we read it from the greeter.
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| 09:14 | <stgraber> ah, right
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| 09:14 | <sbalneav> that way, it's stripped for the rest of the program.
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| 09:15 | <garymc> sbalneav: right ok, so it asks me if i want to put home DIR on the other PArtition?
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| 09:15 | <sbalneav> Well, you have to do some manual partitioning.
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| 09:15 | You can just say "autopartition everything"
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| 09:15 | So there's a little more work involved.
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| 09:15 | it's in the installer.
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| 09:16 | Read the Ubuntu docs. Disk partitioning's OT for #ltsp :)
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| 09:19 | <stgraber> sbalneav: would you do it directly in the greeter or in ldm.c ?
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| 09:19 | <garymc> if i put 3 disk in the RAID 5 setup for /home dir. Where would my Mysql database be getting saved?
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| 09:19 | <stgraber> sbalneav: I don't seem to find an easy way to do it in the greeter but I kind of suck at C so ... :)
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| 09:19 | <Blinny> garymc: In Ubuntu MySQL saves its data by default in /var/lib/mysql
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| 09:20 | <garymc> so wold it be getting saved in the RAID 1 OS part of my setup?
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| 09:20 | <sbalneav> stgraber: one sec
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| 09:21 | <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/259305/
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| 09:22 | sbalneav: ^
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| 09:28 | <Blinny> garymc: Do you think my laptop will fit in the glove-box of my car?
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| 09:29 | <garymc> yes if its a tiny acer one :)
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| 09:29 | <bieb> if you snap it in half
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| 09:29 | <sbalneav> I think you can just do "g_strtrip(ldm.username)" without actually re-assigning it.
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| 09:29 | <Blinny> Funny question used to illustrate that you know nothing of my laptop, nor of my glovebox. Similarly, we know nothing of your RAID setup, nor should we.
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| 09:30 | <sbalneav> I'm just verifying
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| 09:30 | <laga> Blinny: nor do we care. ;)
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| 09:31 | Blinny: i'd also recommend getting a specialist to fit that laptop in there
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| 09:31 | <stgraber> It will not allocate new memory, but will modify the original string and return a pointer to it.
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| 09:31 | <sbalneav> stgraber: yeah
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| 09:31 | <stgraber> sbalneav: from the doc, so you are right
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| 09:31 | <sbalneav> right, I'd just add that in in the greeter iface.
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| 09:31 | that fixes it.
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| 09:31 | <stgraber> http://paste.ubuntu.com/259308/
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| 09:31 | so that's good for commiting right ?
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| 09:32 | <sbalneav> Yup, I'd say so.
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| 09:32 | <stgraber> pushing
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| 09:32 | <sbalneav> stgraber: So, I have a question about packaging.
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| 09:32 | <stgraber> I'll have someone test it, then if it works, I'll release a new ltsp
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| 09:32 | <stgraber> s/ltsp/ldm/
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| 09:33 | <sbalneav> I'm trying to produce a sabayon for hardy
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| 09:33 | <stgraber> I'm a bit tired of home directories beeing several gigs large :)
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| 09:33 | <bieb> stgraber: rm -rf :D
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| 09:33 | <sbalneav> Should work ok, but I need to lower some build deps. configure.ac specifies some version numbers of packages that need to be lowered.
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| 09:34 | So, I'm assuming in debian/rules, I need to do some magic to:
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| 09:34 | patch the configure.ac
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| 09:34 | re-run autoconf
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| 09:34 | before the ./configure is run.
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| 09:34 | <stgraber> you could simply not ship a configure
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| 09:35 | and instead run autogen directlry from the packaging
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| 09:35 | that should give you the right depends
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| 09:35 | <sbalneav> upstream tarball has configure in it.
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| 09:35 | <stgraber> ah, then you'll need to patch it, yes
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| 09:35 | <sbalneav> unless I go with a "modified" upstream tarball
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| 09:35 | Which I'd like to avoid.
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| 09:35 | Any pointers on how to do that?
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| 09:36 | I fixed a major shortcoming with Sabayon last night.
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| 09:36 | file modes are getting restored now.
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| 09:36 | <stgraber> are you using cdbs for packaging ?
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| 09:36 | <sbalneav> So desktop icons work.
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| 09:36 | stgraber: cdbs yes
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| 09:36 | <stgraber> ok, then have a look at dpatch
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| 09:36 | it's really easy to use
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| 09:37 | and will let you apply patches on the upstream source code at build time
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| 09:37 | do some test patching and manage the patches
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| 09:37 | sbalneav: fix is confirmed to work btw, will tag + release now
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| 09:37 | <sbalneav> Right, I've got a patches directory. But I assume I need some magic in the rules file to re-run autoconf
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| 09:38 | <arto> Where would you edit /etc/ldap/ldap.conf in unbuntu 8.10? Is it this file or is it replaced somewhere else?
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| 09:41 | <sbalneav> arto: If it's not there, it'll be in /etc/ldap.conf
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| 09:42 | sbalneav@feniks:~$ strings /lib/security/pam_ldap.so | grep ldap.conf
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| 09:42 | /etc/ldap.conf
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| 09:43 | Looks like /etc/ldap.conf
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| 09:47 | <garymc> stgraber how hard is it to cluster LTSP servers
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| 09:47 | I dont even know where to start
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| 09:47 | <stgraber> garymc: did you look at the OpenVZ howto on wiki.ltsp-cluster.org ?
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| 09:47 | <arto> ah thanks
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| 09:48 | <stgraber> https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster/Documentation/OpenVZSetup
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| 09:48 | the other url seems to be broken
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| 09:48 | <garymc> yes i couldt get the page to load
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| 09:48 | is that the new link
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| 09:48 | <arto> seems like when i installed "libnss-ldap" the "/etc/libbnss-ldap.conf" installed somewere else also
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| 09:48 | any ideas?
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| 09:49 | <garymc> im just getting a page load with that link above too
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| 09:52 | <sbalneav> arto: dpkg -L libnss-ldap
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| 09:58 | <arto> has it moved to /etc/ldap.conf?
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| 09:59 | or /etc/ldap/ldap.conf?
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| 10:01 | <garymc> stgraber those links dont load :(
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| 10:02 | <sbalneav> garymc: They load for me.
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| 10:02 | <garymc> hmmm
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| 10:03 | <sbalneav> arto: from man nss_ldap.conf:
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| 10:04 | files: /etc/ldap.conf
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| 10:04 | <garymc> got it working duh :S
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| 10:04 | <sbalneav> so, like I said, it's /etc/ldap.conf
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| 10:04 | <arto> ah i see thanks, it was looking relatively the same. :)
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| 10:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: I would like to test out your newest sabayon release. Is there a pps you could point me towards?
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| 10:11 | <_UsUrPeR_> sbalneav: woop, never mind. I found the old ppa :)
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| 10:11 | * _UsUrPeR_ updates | |
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| 10:14 | <garymc> dont suppose anyone knows how I create a partion on a new logical drive and create a file system?
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| 10:14 | im doing a test of adding extra drives to my LTSP setup
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| 10:14 | <ball> garymc: that's not an ltsp-specific question.
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| 10:17 | <_UsUrPeR_> garymc: sorry, never tried it myself
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| 10:17 | nothing wrong with asking questions though :)
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| 10:20 | <Blinny> garymc: This may help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/forum/installation/Partitioning
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| 10:29 | <arto> so im trying to Configure NSS like http://www.jukie.net/~bart/ldap/ldap-authentication-on-debian/ in unbuntu 8.10 i tried configuring it the same way in /etc/ldap.conf but its not working anyone done this or can anyone help me troubleshoot?
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| 10:32 | <sbalneav> arto: Why are you using a DEBIAN guide, instead of the UBUNTU guide SPECIFICALLY designed for setting it up on ubuntu machines?
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| 10:32 | I.e.
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| 10:32 | https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/serverguide/C/openldap-server.html
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| 10:32 | <arto> eh, its one someone recommended me to yesterday.
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| 10:32 | -noob
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| 10:32 | <-noob*
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| 10:33 | <sbalneav> Use the ubuntu guide to set up auth on ubuntu.
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| 10:34 | Use a chevy manual to service a chevy.
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| 10:35 | <rjune__> sbalneav: you're playing mechanic now?
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| 10:36 | <sbalneav> Just keeping people on track.
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> ogra: about?
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| 10:39 | <ogra> sbalneav, with half my brain, yes
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| 10:40 | <sbalneav> To produce a sabayon for hardy, I need the proper debian/rules goo to be able to patch the upstream tarballs configure.ac, and rerun autoconf before the main package compile. Package uses patchsys and cdbs. Any pointers?
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| 10:41 | <arto> When I get to the line:
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| 10:41 | sudo auth-client-config -a -p lac_ldap
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| 10:41 | I get:
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| 10:41 | Error in updating the file: 'pam_account' not found
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| 10:41 | --
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| 10:41 | Errors found. Aborting (no changes made)
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| 10:41 | :-/
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| 10:41 | <ogra> sbalneav, ignore hardy
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| 10:41 | sbalneav, karmic feature freeze is on thu.
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| 10:42 | <sbalneav> ogra: ok, I have packages in my ppa that work on jaunty, and should work on karmic. How to get them in?
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| 10:42 | <ogra> are they properly merged with the current karmic ones ?
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| 10:42 | <sbalneav> I can produce a proper karmic package tonight.
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| 10:43 | it will be sitting in my ppa
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| 10:43 | * ogra is really busy working on other stuff atm, would be nice if you could work with stgraber and highvoltage on the preparation, i'm happy to upload and do a final review | |
| 10:43 | <sbalneav> arto: plsease paste your lac_ldap file to the pastebot.
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| 10:43 | ogra: ok understood.
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| 10:44 | !pastebot
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| 10:44 | <ltspbot> sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 10:44 | <arto> where is the lac_ldap?
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| 10:45 | <ogra> arto, why do you use debian documentation for ubuntu ?
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| 10:45 | <arto> im not anymore.
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| 10:45 | this is in the unbuntu doc.
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| 10:46 | <sbalneav> arto: dpkg -L auth-client-config | grep lac_ldap
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| 10:46 | <cliebow> wish me luck..going for a job interview..
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| 10:47 | <sbalneav> cliebow++
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| 10:47 | <ball> good luck cliebow
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| 10:48 | <sbalneav> arto: Have you installed the ldap-auth-config package?
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| 10:48 | <arto> sbalneav, not found
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| 10:48 | <arto> ah
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| 10:48 | let me check
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| 10:48 | yes
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| 10:49 | i have
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| 10:49 | <sbalneav> dpkg -L ldap-auth-config | grep lac_ldap
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| 10:49 | <arto> not found
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| 10:50 | <rjune__> apt-cache search lac_ldap show anything?
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| 10:50 | <arto> negative
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| 10:50 | <sbalneav> Did you do the dpkg-reconfigure step?
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| 10:50 | <arto> Yes
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| 10:51 | should debconf manage ldap config?
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| 10:52 | <sbalneav> Well, I do ldap, but I have my own config file that I use for auth-client-config
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| 10:53 | <arto> meaning?
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| 10:53 | <sbalneav> Either way, this is OT for #ltsp. I'd check in #ubuntu or #ubuntu-directory or search on the forums.
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| 10:55 | <arto> k
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| 11:14 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok! I just updated Koala to it's latest, and tested with the DLW 1520 (atom chipset)
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| 11:15 | <_UsUrPeR_> it detected video perfectly, bypassing the LVDS monitor. I am guessing the atom tweak has been made permanent
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| 11:16 | I am getting the STRANGEST artifacting though. When running a dual monitor setup, the DVI output is freaking out. The VGA output looks fine though.
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| 11:17 | whenever I move windows, and sometimes just the mouse itself, I am seeing what appears to be tearing on the DVI side
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| 11:29 | * _UsUrPeR_ tests more | |
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| 11:34 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, after testing our atom thinclient (DLW 1520) with just single monitors plugged in, everything appears to be ok.
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| 11:35 | I have tested both DVI and VGA output, and they both look great when plugged in singularly.
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| 11:37 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> about the previous comments above pertaining to artifacting: all artifacting was actually appearing on the VGA output, NOT the DVI
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| 11:37 | hey LNS
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| 11:38 | <Lns> morning _UsUrPeR_
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| 11:38 | what's the good word there buddy =)
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| 11:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> testing out koala with DLW 1520
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| 11:38 | atom chipset
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| 11:38 | things are much better (previously X would not start)
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| 11:38 | <Lns> koala...that sounds familiar
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| 11:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> 9.10
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| 11:39 | ubuntu
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| 11:39 | <Lns> oooooooh =) cool
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| 11:39 | didn't know that's what it was called
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| 11:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> Karmic koala :)
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| 11:39 | <Lns> oh ok, i heard karmic hehe
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| 11:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> they should have gone with kangaroo
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| 11:40 | <Lns> lol..that woulda been cool
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| 11:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> but I think it's hard to find an adjective to rhyme with kangaroo...
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| 11:40 | <Lns> ...karmic? =p
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| 11:40 | <elias_a> chaotic?
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| 11:40 | <sbalneav> Didgereedoo?
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| 11:40 | <_UsUrPeR_> must be an adjective wthat starts with a K as well I believe :)
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| 11:40 | <Lns> bwwwaaaaarrrrr
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| 11:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> hmm...
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| 11:41 | * _UsUrPeR_ will write an angry letter to the naming committee this moment | |
| 11:41 | <_UsUrPeR_> anyway, on top of that good news, add the fact the intel driver tweak for LVDS works out-of-the-box now! :D
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| 11:41 | no more xorg.conf tweaks! :D
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| 11:42 | unfortunately, there's a nasty artifacting issue on the VGA output when running two monitors
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| 11:42 | <epsas> you have two monitor support with your ltsp setup?
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| 11:42 | <elias_a> _UsUrPeR_: Like no video?
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| 11:43 | <_UsUrPeR_> elias_a: to the contrary, it has proper output at proper resolutions
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| 11:43 | however, when there's movement on either monitor (dragging a box, opening window, etc...) there is a nasty tearing effect on the VGA output side
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| 11:43 | <elias_a> _UsUrPeR_: Ok.
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| 11:44 | <_UsUrPeR_> I also just finished testing out an EeePC 1000HE in an attempt to see how the intel drivers' LVDS tweak would affect it (being that it actually has an LVDS monitor). LDM is kind of weird looking. It only shows half of the cool white-background wallpaper. The other half is blank.
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| 11:44 | it still logs in fine, and the monitor looks great once logged in
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| 11:45 | epsas: dual monitor support is go
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| 11:46 | <epsas> yay!
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| 12:22 | <zamba> sbalneav: checking it out now
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| 12:22 | sbalneav: the latest build of sabayon, that is
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| 12:25 | sbalneav: that crashed on me when i tried to save
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| 12:26 | sbalneav: http://pastebin.com/m3aad24d1
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| 12:26 | sbalneav: there's the debug log
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| 12:28 | sbalneav: nevermind, it worked when i started fresh
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| 12:29 | <Lns> hardy package still has broken python deps, la la la la ;)
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| 12:34 | BugsBunnyBR_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:36 | <johnny> hmm.. will it even work on hardy?
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| 12:36 | i guess that was the first release using gio ?
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| 12:36 | <johnny> i know we can't go any or much lower.. just because of the fact that we need gio..
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| 12:46 | <Lns> johnny: i saw sbalneav's ppa had gutsy repo in it ;)
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| 12:46 | <zamba> sbalneav: creating a symlink to the desktop crashes it
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| 12:46 | <johnny> zamba, it's azip file. we don't support symlinks.. yet
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| 12:46 | we have to fake em
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| 12:46 | iirc
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| 12:46 | zamba, he just wrote file mode support last night
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| 12:47 | so we must be close
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| 12:47 | <zamba> yeah, i know
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| 12:48 | sabayon, i hate to say it, is not production ready
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| 12:48 | problem with the panel as well, can't modify that either
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| 12:49 | <johnny> you're not production ready
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| 12:49 | <zamba> in the editor i have removed everything and just added shiretoko, but when i log in with the user, it's replaced by the three default ubuntu icons
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| 12:49 | johnny: agreed :)
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| 12:49 | <Lns> johnny: lol!
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| 12:50 | <johnny> just think about the contribution to the open community you're making tho zamba
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| 12:50 | <Lns> zamba: sabayon is being actively worked on right now. it's definitely not ready for prime time, but it's getting closer by the day. Give it time and keep giving us reports on what works and what doesn't and it'll get there that much faster =)
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| 12:50 | <zamba> Lns: yeah :)
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| 12:50 | <johnny> Lns, only problem is that some people need it sooner rather than later
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| 12:50 | <zamba> johnny: nono, don't take it that way
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| 12:51 | <johnny> zamba, that's not just from you
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| 12:51 | it's what i see on the posts to the bug reports
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| 12:51 | <Lns> johnny: well we welcome patches you know ;)
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| 12:51 | <johnny> luckily sbalneav fixed some issues that were way beyond my realm of understanding
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| 12:51 | <zamba> editing the ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs manually didn't work, btw..
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| 12:51 | <johnny> Lns, it's possible there might be patches from me again
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| 12:51 | <zamba> if you remember from the other day?
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| 12:51 | i wanted to set the default location for the documents link
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| 12:51 | <johnny> i recommended that you edited the global one if possible anyways
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| 12:52 | not the local
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| 12:52 | zamba, it sucks that we have to work around some things from *nix that just weren't meant to be used the way you're using them
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| 12:53 | like /etc/skel.. no way to be specific about which users get which skel..
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| 12:53 | <zamba> johnny: you talking about the default location for documents now or?
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| 12:53 | <johnny> all users get skel
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| 12:53 | <zamba> ah
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| 12:53 | yeah
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| 12:53 | <johnny> zamba, yes.. /etc/xdg/user-dirs.default or whatever
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| 12:53 | <johnny> or you could drop it in /etc/skel.
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| 12:53 | by default the one in ~/.config doesn't exist
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| 12:53 | it falls back elsewhere
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| 12:54 | <zamba> ok
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| 12:54 | what about default language.. where is the best place to set that?
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| 12:54 | <johnny> default language for what?
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| 12:55 | the system?
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| 12:55 | <zamba> UI and input language
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| 12:55 | yeah
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| 12:55 | both the keyboard layout and the whole system
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| 12:55 | <johnny> uhmm.. i'm not sure where on ubuntu..
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| 12:55 | these other gents should know tho
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| 12:55 | <mikeybs> is there any way to set up an X configuration so that when thin clients go down (power loss or hardware failure) the X session on the server is preserved and a different thin client could reconnect to it by logging in with the same username, basically what happens under MS terminal server...
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| 12:55 | <johnny> mikeybs, not yet..
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| 12:55 | perhaps some day
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| 12:55 | <mikeybs> anyone working on it?
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| 12:55 | <johnny> probably :)
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| 12:55 | Lns, you know something about this right?
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| 12:56 | mikeybs, i know many people around here can answer that better than i.. so stick around, perhaps ask in an hour or so if nobody gives you a decent answer
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| 12:56 | <mikeybs> I'd be interested in joining an effort is there is any sort of open source project trying to acheive this
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| 12:56 | <johnny> there are.. i just don't know which one is actually active now
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| 12:56 | <mikeybs> ok
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| 12:57 | any web sites you know of that would be worth me poking around on?
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| 12:57 | <johnny> one was a gsoc project that basically wanted to do what screen does.. but for X
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| 12:57 | mikeybs, you might want to ask around on #xorg
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| 12:57 | i think that's a real channel :)
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| 12:57 | <NeonLicht> johnny: doesn't VNC already does it?
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| 12:57 | <johnny> vnc ain't X..
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| 12:57 | we can't get local dev on vnc
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| 12:57 | <mikeybs> I had tried a setup where clients connect to vnc session instead of using X sessions
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| 12:58 | <johnny> easily anyways..
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| 12:58 | <mikeybs> but the load skyrockets
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| 12:58 | <johnny> i'm sure it does
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| 12:59 | <mikeybs> yeah, I'll go ask in xorg, it would certainly have to be done at the X level, something that would hold the X client stuff open if the X server drops
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| 12:59 | I just figured this channel would have more interest in it
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| 12:59 | <Lns> johnny: afk hold on
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| 13:00 | <johnny> mikeybs, we do.. but X devel is something that not many people understand
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| 13:00 | it's hard to get involved
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| 13:00 | most people here are users..
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| 13:00 | <zamba> i'd like to get involved, any way i can
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| 13:00 | but i don't have the "skills" for it
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| 13:01 | <johnny> skills for what?
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| 13:01 | there are tons of ways to get involved that don't involve writing code
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| 13:01 | <mikeybs> well I'm no X guru either, but I always like to see what I can learn
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| 13:01 | <zamba> sure.. i'm aware of t hat
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| 13:01 | <johnny> well that's what it takes.. somebody willing to spend the time and bang their head against the wall
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| 13:01 | then the problems will become solved..
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| 13:01 | and you could probably get a job anywhere :)
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| 13:01 | so it won't be a total loss :)
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| 13:01 | <mikeybs> yes, from some background reading I've done though, X does seem to be somewhat of a nightmare to develop
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| 13:02 | <johnny> well it's getting easier as we abstract more from it
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| 13:02 | the total effort began after the xorg fork
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| 13:02 | imo
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| 13:02 | <mikeybs> agreed
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| 13:02 | <johnny> it was almost completely stagnant before then
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| 13:02 | <mikeybs> that certainly seemed to be a big move in the right direction
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| 13:02 | breaking it all up into modules
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| 13:03 | <johnny> removing the need for config files for most people was good too
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| 13:03 | and now the whole kernel mode setting thing
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| 13:03 | i think that shoudl make certain things much easier
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| 13:04 | <mikeybs> it seems to me that what is needed is something of a 'virtual' X server that would have no physical display, but would allow a real physical display X server to connect to it
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| 13:04 | or an X middle layer
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| 13:04 | whatever you want to call it
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| 13:05 | something to keep the X client side engaged and running in the event to physical X server dies
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| 13:05 | <johnny> are you familiar with kernel mode setting?
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| 13:05 | <johnny> i think that would be a step forward to what you want
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| 13:05 | anything that takes more out of X must be helpful in decluttering
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| 13:06 | <mikeybs> I know of it, but haven't used it extensively
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| 13:06 | I've enabled it and got it working, but I'm no guru
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| 13:07 | <johnny> when all drivers support it we won't need X to run as root anymore
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| 13:07 | which will be another step forward..
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| 13:07 | <Blinny> echo
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| 13:09 | mikeybs: We were discussing something similar in this channel last week.
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| 13:09 | <johnny> Blinny, when aren't we discussing that ? :)
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| 13:09 | it comes up every month i bet
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| 13:10 | what it's probably gonna takes is some money..
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| 13:10 | <mikeybs> was there any moral to the discussion? :)
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| 13:10 | <sbalneav> zamba: Symlinks aren't supported
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| 13:10 | <zamba> sbalneav: ok
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| 13:10 | <johnny> yet..
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| 13:11 | <sbalneav> no time soon
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| 13:11 | <Lns> mikeybs: johnny, etc. - I think Gadi had the best things to say regarding "hotdesking" (like sun ray tcs can do apparently), I'm not aware of any real projects right now though myself
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| 13:12 | I think Gadi had a good explanation as to why it can/cannot work via X11 proto alone
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| 13:12 | <sbalneav> I really like how johnny keeps building up people's expectations about what's coming with sabayon, when I'm looking at all the recent commit logs and I don't see his name in there.
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| 13:12 | <johnny> sbalneav, i am? i didn't give any timeframe
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| 13:12 | <sbalneav> I think people should only build up expectations on things they're actively contributing to.
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| 13:12 | <Lns> sbalneav: yeah i heard from johnny that you were going to implement the waffles template soon
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| 13:12 | <johnny> being in the pipeline doesn't give any say as to when.. the pipeline could be long
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| 13:12 | lol
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| 13:13 | sbalneav, i did contribute to sabayon.. and probably will again soon
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| 13:13 | i just couldn't get xephyr working
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| 13:13 | so i got stuck..
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| 13:13 | looks like that is finally solved
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| 13:13 | <mikeybs> looks like vnc sessions are the only real solution at this point, unfortunately it means I can only support like 1/3 of the users per server as I can with just X
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| 13:14 | <Blinny> mikeybs: NX does something similar as well.
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| 13:14 | <johnny> it required something far out of my area of expertise
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| 13:14 | <zamba> sbalneav: i have another issue, and that's related to the .config directory.. i've tried modifying user-dirs.dirs in there, but the changes aren't replicated to the sessions..
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| 13:14 | <Lns> mikeybs: what kind of stuff are your users doing? VNC is really kind of a last ditch effort for stuff like this when you have X
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| 13:14 | <mikeybs> yes, I've played with NX
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| 13:14 | <zamba> sbalneav: i can btw. report that the file mode thing fixed the launchers on the desktop
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| 13:15 | <zamba> sbalneav: so that works
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| 13:16 | <sbalneav> So, you're doing what to the .config directory? Have you looked in the zip file to see if it's there?
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| 13:16 | <zamba> where is the zip file?
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| 13:16 | <sbalneav> /etc/desktop-profiles
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| 13:16 | <zamba> ah
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| 13:17 | <sbalneav> take a look in the zip file, see if there file's there
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| 13:17 | <zamba> doesn't look like it's there
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| 13:17 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 13:17 | <zamba> hold on, i'll try something
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| 13:18 | <zamba> oh, it's there
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| 13:18 | <sbalneav> So, it *is* there in the zip?
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| 13:19 | <zamba> yup
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| 13:20 | <sbalneav> So, it's not being unpacked in a userid by sabayon-apply? Can you confirm it's NOT in the users's config after login?
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| 13:20 | <zamba> i'll try logging back on again
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| 13:23 | hm.. strange.. it's being unpacked, but it's not "working"
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| 13:23 | i have to do some poking here myself.. could be that this is not related to sabayon
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| 13:23 | <sbalneav> So, explain to me exactly what you're putting in there
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| 13:24 | Are perms wrong on the file, perhaps?
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| 13:28 | <zamba> i'm going to try directly through nautilus and see what happens then
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| 13:28 | to update the bookmarks through there
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| 13:29 | <johnny> the file you need is .gtk-bookmarks
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| 13:29 | <zamba> i think this is a problem with the locale
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| 13:30 | <johnny> do you have the associated gtk program?
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| 13:30 | <zamba> ah
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| 13:30 | looks like i have to manually override it there..?
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| 13:31 | hm.. no.. it's there.. file:///data/dokumenter Dokumenter, but when i log in, the path is not preserved
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| 13:31 | <johnny> xdg-user-dirs-gtk
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| 13:31 | <zamba> i've also removed the other bookmarks, like Videos, Music and so on, but they are still there when i log in
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| 13:31 | <johnny> do you have that program?
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| 13:31 | <zamba> could this be the same thing that's causing the panel to be reset as well?
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| 13:32 | i have xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update, but not xdg-user-dirs-gtk
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| 13:32 | <johnny> hmm.. i don't have that one.
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| 13:32 | i don't think..
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| 13:32 | oh yes i do..
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| 13:32 | that's a new one
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| 13:55 | <sbalneav> zamba: So, something I need to look at? Or no?
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| 13:59 | <johnny> if sabayon-apply happens after xdg-user-dirs-update in xinitrc.d then i can see how it wouldn't work
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| 14:12 | <sbalneav> johnny: sabayon apply gets done at 60sabayon-apply, with the xdg-user-dirs-update happening in 60xdg-user-dirs-update. So, theoretically, it *should* be happening before, but putting sabayon-apply at, say, 59sabayon-apply would test it for sure.
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| 14:13 | <johnny> zamba, give that a shot
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| 14:13 | i wonder if we should try to do that stuff in sabayon tho anyways
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| 14:14 | since xdg-user-dirs doesn't really care about groups and whatnot, it's just going to apply what's in /etc/xdg
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| 14:14 | even if we want different links for different sabayon profile groups
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| 14:50 | <PMantis> Hi guys. In LTSP 4, there was an option for SCREEN_01=shell. That doesn't seem to work in LTSP 5 now, clients simply stop booting, no shell, DM.
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| 14:50 | <johnny> it should still work
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| 14:50 | it just depends on where you did it.. and on what distro
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| 14:51 | also.. you should probably use SCREEN_02=shell
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| 14:51 | <PMantis> Ubuntu 8.10, edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf , placed in [default]
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| 14:51 | <johnny> ok
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| 14:51 | change it to 2
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| 14:51 | <PMantis> Ok, we'll see.
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| 14:51 | Rebooting...
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| 14:52 | <johnny> PMantis, if ubuntu every switches to use screen 1 for xorg you'll be future proofed
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| 14:52 | like fedora has
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| 14:52 | <PMantis> Rather than... 7?
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| 14:53 | <johnny> yes
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> SCREEN_01 doesn't work in Ubuntu, it's used by something else, don't remember what, maybe usplash?
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| 14:54 | <johnny> so you have flicker free transisition to X from the kms enabled bootup screen (if you have cards with appropriate drivers)
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| 14:54 | <PMantis> Hmmm, "SCREEN_02 = shell" is in place, black screen. Ctrl-Alt-F2, Ctrl-Alt-F7.. neither show anything. :(
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| 14:55 | <johnny> what's up with all the spacing?
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| 14:55 | SCREEN_02=shell
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| 14:55 | not SCREEN_02 = shell
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| 14:55 | <PMantis> Tabs for formatting
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| 14:55 | <johnny> no..
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| 14:55 | not sure if that works
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| 14:55 | altho then again.. perhaps getltscfg hasn't changed since ages
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| 14:55 | <alkisg> PMantis: try both SCREEN_02=shell, SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 14:56 | <johnny> alkisg, that would be weird
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| 14:56 | <PMantis> Well, I'll try it.
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| 14:56 | <johnny> 7 defaults to ldm on ubuntu
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> johnny: I think that's the way to do it...
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| 14:56 | <johnny> you shuldn't have to set 7 at all, unless you want something other than ldm
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| 14:56 | <PMantis> That's the way it was read in LTSP 4...
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| 14:56 | <alkisg> johnny: I'm not sure, but I think if you set SCREEN_02=shell, then ldm doesn't start.
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| 14:57 | <johnny> well.. i think that isn't part of his problem.. yet
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| 14:57 | first he just wants the shell to show at all :)
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| 14:57 | <alkisg> k
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| 14:57 | * PMantis nods | |
| 14:58 | <PMantis> Black, blank screen again, adding 07.
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| 14:58 | THAT gave me a DM
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| 14:58 | <johnny> but did you get the shell?
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| 14:59 | <PMantis> Ctrl-Alt-F2 is black, ..F7 takes me back to DM. No shell. :(
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| 14:59 | So, where's the "shell" start script? Hmmm
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| 14:59 | <johnny> guess you're broken somewhere else then.. outh
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| 14:59 | ouch*
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| 15:00 | <PMantis> Are we sure the "key word" is "shell"?
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> "(10:51:15 μμ) PMantis: Ubuntu 8.10, edited /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf , placed in [default]" ==> do you use nfs?
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| 15:01 | With nbd, the default lts.conf location is in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 15:01 | This way you don't have to do ltsp-update-image after each change to lts.conf
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| 15:02 | <PMantis> alkisg: NBD is installed, but I had t edit /etc/exports and restart nfs for the TC to boot at all, so it's using NFS
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> PMantis: are you sure? You'd have to also change pxelinux.cfg/default to make nfs work
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| 15:04 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS/ ==> look at the "Reverting to NFS if you want to" paragraph
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| 15:04 | <PMantis> Hmmmmm
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| 15:04 | using: DEFAULT vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img nbdport=2001
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> Yeah, I don't think you're using nfs
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| 15:05 | (btw, did you put nbdport there?)
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| 15:06 | <PMantis> Hmmm, I cleared /etc/exports and showmount -e is blank... client still booted, so I stand corrected.
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| 15:06 | <johnny> huh?
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| 15:07 | <coordinador> hi
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| 15:07 | <johnny> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf should work no matter what method used
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| 15:07 | nfs, nbd or anything else
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| 15:07 | <PMantis> alkisg: I did not place nbdport=2001 in there
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| 15:07 | <johnny> PMantis, yes.. it is shell
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> PMantis: hmmm there's some port autodetection code, I think that's what put the port there.... I don't remember which file it reads to see the port though, maybe inetd.conf
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| 15:08 | Anyway if it boots no problem
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| 15:08 | <PMantis> johnny: so alkisg is correct to say I'm using nbd, since no exports and still booting....
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| 15:08 | <johnny> matters not in the sense of which file you edit tho
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> johnny: if nfs is used, then /var/lib/tftpboot..../lts.conf isn't read at all afaik.
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| 15:08 | <johnny> i'm not sure why the topic was rought up
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| 15:08 | really?
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 15:09 | <PMantis> However, i don't get why F2 is black, w/o any text for shell, login screen, nothing.
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| 15:09 | <johnny> that sounds like a bug?
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| 15:09 | you shouldn't get a login screen.. just a prompt.. so another bug :)
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| 15:09 | <alkisg> johnny: not really. If one is using nfs, why shouldn't everything be in the chroot?
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| 15:09 | <johnny> why shouldn't it fall back ?
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| 15:09 | so you can use the same settings whether nfs or nbd..
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| 15:09 | <johnny> just like it does now
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| 15:09 | use lts.conf if it exists.. otherwise use the other one
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| 15:10 | <PMantis> Heh
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| 15:10 | * alkisg leaves that reply for vagrantc :) | |
| 15:10 | <PMantis> Ahhh, vagrantc, I remember him
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| 15:10 | <johnny> the only way to tell is to look at the initramfs
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| 15:11 | <PMantis> Well, either way, if I edit "/var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf" the behavior of the thin client changes, so it's not reading lts.conf from inside the image afaik.
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> PMantis: if you don't have a /tftpboot...lts.conf, then the lts.conf from the chroot is used
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| 15:12 | But you have to do ltsp-update-image to take effect
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| 15:13 | <PMantis> alkisg: That makes sense to me
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| 15:13 | <nubae_> it is inted.conf that reads the port
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| 15:13 | <PMantis> inetd.conf. :)
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> PMantis: why don't you try "the correct way"? I.e. with lts.conf in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ?
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| 15:14 | <nubae_> yeah that one, :p
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| 15:14 | <PMantis> alkisg: That's what I've been editing, an where my config is...
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| 15:14 | lts.conf in /opt/ltsp/i386/etc is nothing but comments.
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| 15:14 | <nubae_> but... port is also mentioned in pxe.0.config/default
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| 15:15 | or whatever its called
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| 15:15 | <johnny> alkisg, i'm confused .. that is what he has been doing.. where did you see that he was doing otherwie???
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> Maybe I have misread something...
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| 15:15 | <johnny> alkisg, are you safe from fires?
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> Yeah they are too far away from me
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| 15:16 | <johnny> good
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| 15:16 | * alkisg thinks he was confused by the nfs thing that was mentioned | |
| 15:16 | <nubae_> oh, is it fire weather in Greece right now?
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> Yeah Athens is on fire...
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| 15:16 | <nubae_> oh wow
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| 15:17 | <PMantis> Wonderful... :( I live in "Greece", but that's a town in the states.
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| 15:17 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 15:17 | Anyway PMantis, can you upload your current lts.conf to pastebot.ltsp.org ?
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| 15:18 | <PMantis> alkisg: Heh. Not much to share, it's 5 lines under [default].
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| 15:21 | <ltsppbot> "PMantis" pasted "lts.conf" (7 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/487
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| 15:22 | <PMantis> alkisg: I cleaned the IP/domain, but that's commented anyhow.
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| 15:22 | So, 3 lines in effect right now.
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| 15:23 | <alkisg> LOCAL_APPS is true by default
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| 15:23 | So not needed
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| 15:23 | <PMantis> ok...
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| 15:24 | I installed ssh in the chroot for i386, so I can ssh in to the thin client.
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| 15:24 | <alkisg> If you can login to the clients, you can also run ltsp-localapps xterm
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| 15:24 | ...and you can also unlock the root account and login to SCREEN_01
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| 15:25 | <PMantis> I'm not sure I follow you there...
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| 15:25 | ltsp-localapps xterm?
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| 15:26 | <alkisg> If you are able to login in a thin client, and run `ltsp-localapps xterm`, this opens a local terminal
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| 15:26 | From which you can execute local commands, e.g. see the syslog...
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| 15:26 | <PMantis> Ahhh, ok
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| 15:27 | <johnny> alkisg, there's also a debug terminal variable
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| 15:27 | which opens up a local terminal on login
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Yeah, LDM_DEBUG_TERMINAL or something
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| 15:27 | <sbalneav> PMantis: Another trick that I like to do is set the root password in the chroot, so that I can simply alt-f1 into the root login, and then get in from there.
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| 15:27 | <rjune__> PMantis! howdy
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| 15:28 | <PMantis> Hi rjune__!!!
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| 15:28 | rjune__: Long time....
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| 15:28 | <rjune__> no doubt. what's new?
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| 15:28 | <PMantis> Oh, and Scotty!!!!
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| 15:28 | heh
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| 15:29 | rjune__: Built a bunch more phone systems for clients lately.
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| 15:29 | lammert has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:29 | <rjune__> cool deal
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| 15:29 | raw asterisk? or trixbox? or something else?
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| 15:29 | <PMantis> rjune__: Right now, I'm working on debugging some things with a new LTSP 5 / Ubuntu install.
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| 15:29 | rjune__: Ubuntu / Asterisk / Freepbx. Trixbox is bloatware IMO.
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| 15:29 | <rjune__> heh
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| 15:30 | <PMantis> Also, since my first major PBX was for Canonical, I had to use Ubuntu there, not CentOS in Trix. LOL
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| 15:30 | So, I got used to that.n
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| 15:31 | <rjune__> You work for Canonical too?
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| 15:31 | <PMantis> Anyway, sbalneav. I'd love to do that - it's what I was trying to do. Buuuut no shell can be found. :( http://pastebot.ltsp.org/487
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| 15:32 | <lammert> ppl, I have a little question for yah because it's almost not documented on the internet and you guys found the solution !
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| 15:32 | <PMantis> rjune__: Remember UBZ / BTS in montreal?
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| 15:32 | <rjune__> PMantis: yeah
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| 15:32 | bieb has left #ltsp | |
| 15:32 | <lammert> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=874568 You guys helped this guy with his problem maybe you could help me ?
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| 15:32 | <PMantis> rjune__: Mark saw me using my cordless phone to talk to my wife, and I got a contract out of that to build their call center PBX.
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| 15:32 | <rjune__> Nice.
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> PMantis: unlocking the root account is a different trick, no lts.conf involved. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting
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| 15:33 | <PMantis> rjune__: 3 years later... they just rebuilt it and too the expertise in house (last month).
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| 15:33 | s/too/took
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> Look at the lines below sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 passwd -u root
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| 15:34 | <PMantis> rjune__: I expected it to be much sooner than that... maintained it since then.
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| 15:35 | alkisg: That's nbd to chroot and run passwd. Bu, I'd love to at least HAVE a prompt first. :)
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| 15:36 | <alkisg> Wait, if you don't put anything at all to lts.conf, you don't have a prompt?
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| 15:36 | (with alt+ctrl+f1)
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| 15:36 | <PMantis> Not afaik.
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| 15:36 | I'll try though.
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| 15:40 | <lammert> One last try : howto get a module in a initramfs witch is used on a live cd, need pxe booting but the initramfs is missing the sky2 module (ubuntu 8.04)
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| 15:40 | <Egyptian[Work]> evening all
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| 15:40 | how do you guys deal with package kit?
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| 15:40 | <johnny> ?
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| 15:41 | <PMantis> alkisg, johnny: Actually, I installed Ubuntu 8.04 server 64 bit, then install xubuntu-desktop, then ltsp 4. That''s been running a while. I recently cloned the LTSP Virtual machine to a new VM, and installed the LTSP5 parts. So I guess I should say, XUbuntu, but close enough. :)
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| 15:41 | <johnny> there's a doc for that lammert .. but does somebody have a link?
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| 15:41 | Egyptian[Work], what's the question?
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| 15:41 | <PMantis> I commented out all in lts.conf, rebooted, and I can ctrl-alt-f1, but NOTHING is on the screen... totally black. :(
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| 15:42 | <lammert> johnny http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=874568 on this link I get the solution for ltsp but I need it for a live cd ?
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| 15:42 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: on fedora11 .. there is this disgusting thing that is "supposed" to help the end user ..it is called packagekit
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| 15:42 | <lammert> can you give me a quick howto
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| 15:43 | <Egyptian[Work]> instead .. everytime a user logs in .. it gets teh repo's db
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| 15:43 | <johnny> disgusting thing?
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| 15:44 | i use it all the time.. it's pretty good minus a few ui things..
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| 15:45 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], do you mean it fetches updates on login?
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| 15:46 | Egyptian[Work], see if there is a relevant bug on the tracker
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| 15:46 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: no .. that requires root
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| 15:46 | <johnny> to not show it to non admin users at all
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| 15:46 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: what it does is gets repo data
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| 15:46 | <johnny> excuse me.. fetches list of possible updates .. :)
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| 15:46 | <Egyptian[Work]> filelists et al .. to inform the user of updates
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| 15:46 | yes
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| 15:47 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: plus .. i have my systems setup to yum -y update at 3 am in the morning .. on 256kb/s .. i dont want to refresh the repo data everytime a new user logs in
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| 15:47 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], understood
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| 15:48 | <PMantis> Ok, well... my goal on LTSP is to get local apps working. In order to do that, the thin client needs to know about the UID, etc. Trying to get LDAP auth working, since the servers all use it. When I turn it on, the kernel logger hangs the bootup process indefinitely. Was *going* to login to the thin client to see if I can see what's up, but I can't even get a damn shell. So, that's why I was looking at SCREEN_01=shell.
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> PMantis: are you able to login in a thin client with ldm?
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| 15:48 | <PMantis> alkisg: Yup
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| 15:48 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], try removing the gpk-update-icon from /etc/xdg/autostart ?
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| 15:48 | <PMantis> alkisg: but ltsp-localapps is not found.
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| 15:48 | <johnny> it's not there in 8.04 is it?
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Oooops :)
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| 15:49 | <johnny> PMantis, me thinks your ltsp is too old
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| 15:49 | <PMantis> lol
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| 15:49 | Ok, time to complain to jamm
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| 15:49 | jammcq
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| 15:49 | <johnny> huh?
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| 15:49 | he's not even developing.. don't blame him for anything :)
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| 15:49 | <PMantis> I have to, he wanted me to install this on an LTS release. :)
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| 15:49 | <johnny> ah
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| 15:50 | he probably doesn't know .. or maybe i am completely wrong :)
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| 15:50 | anyways.. lots of fixes went into local apps since then.. so it's possible you can get it to work.. it just won't be as good as what we have now
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| 15:50 | i think the executable is there in 8.04 .. just diabled by default, since it wasn't complete
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| 15:51 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], so you gonna try that?
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| 15:51 | <PMantis> sbalneav: Will the scanner package you gave jammcq work on newer Ubuntu distributions?
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| 15:51 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], this is one of those problems that should be solved by something like sabayon..
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| 15:51 | altho .. sabayon is solving the problme at the wrong level..
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| 15:51 | it should be solved at the fhs level probably..
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| 15:51 | <PMantis> sbalneav: Perhaps we'll have to upgrade from 8.04 to 9.04.
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> PMantis: those are the contents of ltsp-localapps, maybe the xprop magic still works if you create such a script: http://pastebin.com/f4c94efe8
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| 15:52 | <johnny> PMantis, what about 8.10 ?
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| 15:52 | it was there
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| 15:52 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: the #fedora ppl have recommended i remove the gtk and qt parts of package kit only instead of all of it
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| 15:52 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], i just gave you a better option
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| 15:52 | <sbalneav> PMantis: why do you need localapps? jammcq didn't seem to need thoe?
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| 15:54 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], try X-GNOME-Autostart-enabled=false in there ..
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| 15:54 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: i agree but with the uninstall .. i also removed the entry in /etc/xdg/autostart .. i will give it a day and see what happens (previous uninstall had it automatically reinstalled as a dependency of system-config-printer)
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| 15:54 | <johnny> if you install it again, just add that to the autostart entry
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| 15:54 | <PMantis> sbalneav: I thought part of this project was to run firefox locally, as well as local devices.
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| 15:54 | <Egyptian[Work]> johnny: thanks will do
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| 15:55 | <johnny> Egyptian[Work], it's not a problem packagekit can solve anyways.. so don't be mad at them :)
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| 15:55 | <PMantis> sbalneav: Perhaps I'm working on this for nothing. :( I'll have to ask him tomorrow... his 2nd daughter's going off to college today.
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| 15:55 | <johnny> the icon needs to be shown to non root users.. but just like networkmanager.. there's no easy way to show it only to specific users.. need to fix this thing elsewhere
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| 15:55 | <Egyptian[Work]> i m not ..just frustrated ..
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| 15:56 | johnny: i had thought i had fixed the problem months ago .. and it sneaked up on me again recently
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| 15:56 | <sbalneav> PMantis: Well, afaik, you didn't want/need to run firefox locally, and localdevs work fine in 8.04. Bu check with jammcq and see if he really want firefox locally. AFAIK, EWBC doesn't have a lot of workstations suitable for localapps anyway
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| 15:56 | <johnny> if you removed the file instead of adding that key to the file, yes.. the probelm will happen again if you upgrade packagekit :)
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| 15:57 | <PMantis> sbalneav: Many of them have been upgraded. The Jammin 125's are few now.
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| 16:23 | <Q-FUNK> re
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| 16:28 | <Q-FUNK> anyone here with Geode GX2 hardware to spare?
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| 16:29 | <lammert> johnny: I've apt-get initramfs-tools read the man page and i'll think i'll get it now
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| 16:29 | install it in a chroot
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| 16:29 | add the module to the modules dir and in the file hook-functions add the filename
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| 16:29 | and then run update-initramfs -u in the chroot
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| 16:30 | only two questions left
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| 16:30 | then i'll get to "sudo ltsp-update-kernels" is there some equilivant command for a normal ubuntu ?
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| 16:30 | Do i also need to install the linux kernel image in the chroot ?
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| 16:35 | <sbalneav> Anyone familiar here with kvm? I'm trying to set up a karmic host to allow me to produce the package needed for sabayon.
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| 16:36 | <laga> sbalneav: just use a chroot?
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| 16:36 | <Q-FUNK> I use virtualbox for this, here
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| 16:37 | or yes, a chroot produced with pbuilder. you then use 'sudo pbuilder --login' to use the chroot in an interactive way.
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| 16:39 | <sbalneav> How do I build karmic pbuilders on a jaunty box?
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| 16:41 | <sbalneav> heh, did a ubuntu-vm-builder of a jaunty host, worked fine. Networking works. apt-get dist upgrade to karmic, lost my network.
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| 16:44 | <Q-FUNK> right, probabl because dist-upgrading network-manager inside that kills the connection
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| 16:44 | you can probably launch dhclient manually and resume the upgrade, though
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| 16:45 | sbalneav: by specifying karmic as the build target in pbuilderrc. you might need to install debootstrap from jaunty-backports for this, thlough
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| 16:45 | <sbalneav> I've got no eth0 :(
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| 16:51 | Wonder if there's a way to build a karmic vm directly.
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| 16:55 | <Q-FUNK> yes, with a recen debootstrap
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| 17:02 | <coordinador> is there a way to send messages to users like winpopup?
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| 17:02 | i tried notify-send but i cannot make it worked to another user
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| 17:02 | <coordinador> *work
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> sbalneav: did you copy resolv.conf to the karmic chroot? (/me often forgets it and remembers it when he sees he has no net in the chroot...)
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| 17:03 | <sbalneav> no go. Updated my debootstrap, tried a ubuntu-vm-builder kvm karmic, says jaunty's the highest
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| 17:04 | <Q-FUNK> hm
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| 17:04 | <sbalneav> I know the debootstrap supports karmic, as I can see that it's got a karmic target
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| 17:04 | <Q-FUNK> sbalneav: could it be that it uses cdebootstrap instead of debootstrap?
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> sbalneav: you can also upload your sources directly to launchpad, in the karmic series, and let *it* do the compilation. Slow, but works :)
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| 17:05 | <Q-FUNK> sbalneav: right, use the PPA :)
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| 17:06 | <sbalneav> That's not the way ogra wants me to do it.
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| 17:07 | <Q-FUNK> sbalneav: ogra should provide you the solution then, I think ;)
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| 17:08 | <sbalneav> You know, I'm about this --> <-- far from basically saying F*ck it, and walking away from this whole thing :(
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| 17:10 | <Q-FUNK> sbalneav: I'd say simply use the tools that you are comfortable with. if pbuilder with a chroot works ofr you, use that. if you prefer some virtual machine, use that.
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| 17:12 | <sbalneav> I'm at work, and don't have time/bandwidth to download a karmic iso and build a new machine, which is my normal method for this sort of thing.
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| 17:13 | <Q-FUNK> ah
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| 17:13 | still at the legal aid place?
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| 17:14 | <coordinador> i tried notify-send but i cannot make it work to another user
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| 17:14 | to send messages to another usre
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| 17:14 | <sbalneav> I find it absolutely STAGGERING, however, this this whole "virtualization" thing that everyone goes on and on and on about being the most WONDERFUL thing in the world is so fr*gging hard to do what would seem to be the MOST OBVIOUS thing to do which is to run the NEXT VERSION's os in the current version you've got.
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| 17:15 | I don't even have jaunty here I'm on the fabulously supported LTS version hardy here. I'm ssh'ing into my home jaunty box trying to get something working.
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| 17:15 | <Q-FUNK> ah
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| 17:15 | <sbalneav> I'm sorry, am I sounding a bit bitter? :)
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| 17:16 | <Q-FUNK> yes :)
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| 17:16 | * vagrantc hopes for bitter-sweet | |
| 17:16 | <Q-FUNK> and we've both been there a few times, haven't we?
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> works with chocolate
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| 17:16 | <sbalneav> Damn, I was shooting for really bitter.
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> well, actually, i prefer 90+% cocoa ... which probably doesn't count as bittersweet
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| 17:16 | <Q-FUNK> speaking of which, I just ran out of chocolate
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| 17:17 | <tstafford_> coordinador: i tried making that work via notify-send and kind of gave up...
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| 17:17 | there are a few articles out on the web with scripts stating how to use notify-send in that way, but i wasn't able to get any of them to work
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| 17:18 | <coordinador> tstafford_, what do you use for that purpose?
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| 17:18 | <tstafford_> nothing...
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| 17:19 | <coordinador> there is a thing named linpopup, but it seems to need samba
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| 17:20 | Which is better? ubuntu+ltsp server packages or Edubuntu ?
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| 17:21 | <alkisg> Installing ltsp from the alternate cd...
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| 17:21 | (F4 => select "install an ltsp server")
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| 17:21 | <sbalneav> Well, I guess this will just have to wait until I get home tonight.
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| 17:22 | See you all on later.
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> Bye sbalneav, don't worry, be happy :)
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| 17:29 | <tstafford_> coordinador: i thought it may work to have a script load automatically from /etc/xdg/autostart which watches some file and shows whatever is appended to that file via notify-send or zenity dialogs, but i haven't tried it
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| 17:35 | <coordinador> ok tstafford_ , thanks
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| 19:50 | <cliebow> anyone have url for bts2009?
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| 19:54 | <Ryan52> cliebow: http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/ByTheSea2009
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| 19:54 | that?
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| 19:55 | <cliebow> yeah..i guess i found it..cant remember who took pics last year..warren i think..
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| 20:00 | <Brian_H> I am experimenting with ubuntu, ltsp, and kphone, is there a way to make only kphone run locally on each client?
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| 20:19 | <nejode> Hi there!... As soon as the clients boot into the desktop, a very annoying high pitch sound comes fron the speakers and there's no way to disable it
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| 20:19 | ...have to shut down the client if it's a laptop
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| 20:19 | ...any ideas?
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| 20:39 | <Brian_H> does anyone know how to set LTSP to use the local sound card for using a microphone and all other sound processing
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| 20:40 | <ball> Brian_H: local to the terminal, or the server where the programs are running?
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| 20:40 | s/server/host/
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| 20:40 | <Brian_H> ball: I'd like for the client to process all sound
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| 20:41 | the "thin clients" will all have sound, I'm attempting to setup thin clients with the ability to us a sip client
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| 20:41 | * ball nods | |
| 20:41 | <ball> I suspect that's an integral part of ltsp. Using what though? PulseAudio?
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| 20:43 | NAS?
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| 20:43 | <Brian_H> pulseaudio
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| 20:43 | <ball> Brian_H: thanks
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| 20:44 | <Brian_H> I am attempting this with ubuntu 9.04, I tried following the documentation on the "workinprogress" page, however it doesnt work for me
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| 20:47 | ball: is NAS preferred ?
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| 20:48 | <sbalneav> Brian_H: If you're attempting to run a softphone, you'd be better off running it as a localapp
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| 20:50 | <Brian_H> I have tried following this http://www.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WorkInProgress#Ekiga_SIP_Phone_Run_via_Localapp with no luck, I am however on 9.04 version of ubuntu
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| 20:51 | <ball> sbalneav: that sounds reasonable.
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| 20:51 | Brian_H: whichever /works/ is preferred ;-)
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| 20:51 | <Brian_H> ball: :) well I may try NAS then
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| 20:52 | <ball> Brian_H: you misunderstand me.
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| 20:52 | If LTSP is built to use pulseaudio, then that's the way to go.
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| 20:53 | <Brian_H> I think it is, as that is what ships with ubunut
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| 20:53 | <sbalneav> Several people have got softphones running successfully as localapps.
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| 20:54 | <ball> Brian_H: have you tried running it locally on the terminals?
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| 20:55 | <Brian_H> ball: you mean as in the terminal on the client or on the server?
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| 20:55 | I was able to get kphone to work, however all the sound was being processed on the server and the quality was very poor
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| 20:55 | all the thin clients I have will have sound cards
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| 20:55 | <ball> Brian_H: Like I said, on the terminal.
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| 20:56 | There are probably few apps where it's a good idea to run them on the terminal, but an IP phone seems like one of them.
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| 20:56 | <Brian_H> ball: I've tried with the ltsp-localapps script that comes with ubuntu
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| 20:56 | <ball> Why introduce the extra latency of a round trip to the application server?
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| 20:57 | <Brian_H> ball: thats what I'm trying to avoid by running it locally, however I'm not having much luck
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| 20:57 | <ball> oooh!
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| 20:57 | <Brian_H> :)
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| 20:57 | <ball> What /might/ be an issue is if the LAN for the terminals isn't routed to the Internet
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| 20:58 | ...but then I suppose you'd just put an IP PBX on that LAN
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| 20:58 | <Brian_H> yup, its on the same subnet :)
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| 20:58 | <ball> on the same physical LAN too?
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| 20:59 | <Brian_H> yup about 20ft away, home office for now, soon to be a real office, hence my experimentation with ltsp :)
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| 21:01 | <ball> Can you ping the PBX from the terminals?
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| 21:01 | (not from xterm running on the application server)
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| 21:03 | <Brian_H> yea connecting to the pbx is working, its the sound that is the issue
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| 21:14 | <Brian_H> following that page, in my ekiga settings under audio devices I get "silent/ekiga" and no options to select my sound card :(
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| 22:06 | <sbalneav> johnny: Well, I just discovered WHY they're using zipfiles instead of tarfiles.
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| 22:07 | The ZipFile object allows you to read and write file objects directly to/from strings, which is needed to support metadata info
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| 22:07 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:07 | <sbalneav> the TarFile object ONLY allows file operations (add/extract).
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| 22:08 | <johnny> that's because you have to unzip the whole tar to do anything with it
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| 22:08 | <johnny> i know why they use zip now
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| 22:08 | the real question. is if it is necessary to do so
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| 22:08 | depends on how big the profiles get
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| 22:09 | <sbalneav> they never actually unzip the metadata file in the zip archive; only read/write to if from strings
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| 22:09 | <johnny> you don't need the metadata file if you rely on the standard things that tar already stores
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| 22:09 | <sbalneav> No, you do need the metadata, as whether or not a setttings mandatory is stored in there.
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| 22:10 | If you're interested, I have the beginnings of a patch.
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| 22:10 | <johnny> if you're already untarring the whole thing, it doesn't matter
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| 22:10 | but.. untarring the whole thing is bad if the profiles are large
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| 22:10 | thus why i suggested rsync and don't zip/tar the profile at all
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| 22:11 | <Dalik> I am back for another issue I came across. I am using Xenserver which is running ubuntu server 8.04.3 and I can create a new virt image to boot pxe which does work and I can use ltsp. I tried to boot a lenovo desktop machine (new) and as soon as it gets to the ubuntu loading screen (progress bar stage) the computer locks. I tried another lenovo machine but differen model and again fails. I installed a different kernel on the ltsp server, ltsp-update-k
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| 22:11 | <johnny> Dalik, take the quiet splash arguments off of the pxelinux.cfg/default file
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| 22:11 | off the entry in that file rather
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| 22:11 | <sbalneav> doing something like rsync would require completely reworking the storage.py module from the ground up.
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| 22:12 | <johnny> sbalneav, of course.. that's why i wanted to talk about it first :)
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| 22:12 | <Dalik> hhers
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| 22:12 | <johnny> figure out what what people actually want from it
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| 22:12 | <sbalneav> And feature freeze is thursday.
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| 22:12 | So I'm back to the zip.
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| 22:12 | <johnny> surely it wont' be changed for this release
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| 22:12 | i wasn't expecting that
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| 22:12 | <sbalneav> Not the impression I was getting
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| 22:13 | <johnny> that would have been impossible
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| 22:13 | too much work for too short of time
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| 22:13 | that would have had to be started back in march probably
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| 22:13 | or whenever 2.27 started
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| 22:14 | <johnny> changing the storage architecture isn't something that should be done on a whim.. we need to see what people actually want and need
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| 22:14 | <dberkholz> johnny: i put in the overlays request for knipwim today
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| 22:14 | <johnny> one of the benefits of the current zip.. (or tar) is that you can http it
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| 22:15 | <dberkholz> finally finished my ph.d and looked at unrelated things again
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| 22:15 | <Dalik> ipconfig eth0 SIOCGIFINDEX no such device. No devices to configure, cant open /tmp/net-eth0.conf then dead.
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| 22:15 | <johnny> Dalik, that means you're missing the nic driver
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| 22:15 | iyou need to rebuild the initramfs
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| 22:15 | dberkholz, i wish i had a machine capable of running a vm :(
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| 22:16 | <dberkholz> external drives are like $50 nowadays
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| 22:16 | <Dalik> thanks johnny
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| 22:16 | <johnny> i have plenty of hd space..
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| 22:16 | it's processor and ram
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| 22:16 | this machine maxes at 1GB
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| 22:17 | and it's a 1st generation centrino 1.5 ghz
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| 22:17 | <dberkholz> see if someone will send ya one real hardware client, then you just run the server on your machine
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| 22:17 | <johnny> it's about also compiling
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| 22:17 | it means i can't use the machine for anything else
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| 22:17 | i need a entire new machine
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| 22:17 | an*
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| 22:18 | this thing works fine as a client :)
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| 22:18 | i can vm a client.. it's a server i don't have
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| 22:18 | <dberkholz> i'd send ya my old workstation but it's not much better, 2 of nearly the same cpu you've got.
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| 22:18 | athlon 2000+
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| 22:18 | <johnny> dberkholz, that's why i just wanted somebody to share me a xen vm on thier machine or somethin
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| 22:18 | <ball> I'm due for a new machine too.
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| 22:19 | <johnny> just so i have a proper fast gentoo vm to play with
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| 22:19 | <ball> Can't order the thin clients until I have a test server
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| 22:20 | <dberkholz> i bet you could find a new desktop machine for $250 that's at least 5x better than what you've got
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| 22:20 | on tigerdirect or something
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| 22:20 | i do understand not havving $250 to spend though, i'm in a similar situation =)
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| 22:21 | <ball> dberkholz: 250 would get me a dual-core box with 4 Gbytes RAM
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| 22:21 | (using existing case, PSU, hard disk etc.
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| 22:22 | <johnny> i don't want a desktop machine.. i don't really have a place for it
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| 22:22 | <dberkholz> powerful laptops are expensive.
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| 22:22 | <johnny> i just need a new laptop
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| 22:22 | this one is 4 years old one
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| 22:22 | s/one//
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| 22:23 | <ball> I would like a nice dual-socket Shanghai box, but that's not going to happen.
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| 22:23 | <dberkholz> i paid like 1100 for my thinkpad, and that was with a friend's employee discount
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| 22:23 | <ball> Laptops are awful things.
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| 22:23 | <johnny> awful?
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| 22:23 | i love mine.. even if it is 4 years old :)
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| 22:23 | i use it exclusively..
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| 22:23 | even when i had a powerful machine..
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| 22:23 | that powerful machine became the new ltsp server at my store
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| 22:24 | which is why i don't have a gentoo machine anymore
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| 22:25 | dberkholz, that's reasonable.. i plan on spending that much or more
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| 22:25 | <ball> A lot of them seem to have dismal cooling and generally piss-poor design. They all seem a bit fragile too.
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| 22:25 | I need something robust.
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| 22:25 | <johnny> truely.. they do seem a bit fragile...
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| 22:25 | then buy one of those toughbooks :)
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| 22:25 | <dberkholz> thinkpads have metal frames, they're pretty well put-together
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| 22:25 | <Dalik> I installed freenx on a test ltsp lastnight and I was able to pxe boot into the server and connect to the nx server from the nx client and it all worked well. of course I can't maange the pxe clients via the ltsp manager tool but it does work. My next step is to be able to run the nx client from a pxe booted machine and start the nxlicent to connect to the TS. Anyone done this before and does a local app run completely locally and I take it the applica
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| 22:25 | <johnny> you can drop that thing.. put it under watever.. etc
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| 22:26 | Dalik, if you do that.. you won't get local devices
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| 22:26 | iirc anyways
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| 22:26 | <dberkholz> as far as consumer laptops go, probably the only thing i would choose over TP is an apple, and the price premium isn't worth it to run linux
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| 22:26 | <johnny> i want 2 new laptops..
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| 22:26 | a nice tp.. and an arm based netbook..
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| 22:27 | <ball> ARM is an Official Thing of Beauty.
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| 22:27 | <johnny> not if you run windows :)
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| 22:27 | luckily.. i don't
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| 22:28 | <ball> I don't either.
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| 22:28 | <johnny> dberkholz, just see if you know any gentooers who might want to share a vm just for ltsp testing/compiling
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| 22:28 | <ball> Haven't done for easily ten years, at least on my own hardware.
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| 22:28 | <johnny> dberkholz, also.. can you please bug somebody to bump the damn sshfs-fuse!
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| 22:28 | it's still ~arch after 8 months
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| 22:29 | <dberkholz> johnny: not really, most people who share VMs generally want resources shared instead of consumed by 1 slice
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| 22:29 | johnny: did you file a stable bug?
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| 22:29 | <johnny> yes
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| 22:29 | in january
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| 22:29 | <dberkholz> ping on it weekly or so
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| 22:29 | as long as it's not amd64
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| 22:29 | <johnny> is genstef still around?
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| 22:30 | i'll ping on it again for sure.. i just thought that was bad form.. but i guess it has been awhile now :)
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| 22:30 | dberkholz, are you familiar with what is happening with openrc ?
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| 22:31 | after openrc and sshfs-fuse are stable.. we'll only be using ~arch for ltsp packages .. FINALLY
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| 22:31 | <dberkholz> genstef is pretty vanished
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| 22:31 | last commit in march
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| 22:31 | <johnny> ah.. well.. will pinging be useful then?
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| 22:31 | <dberkholz> not if he's the only @gentoo.org assigned or in cc
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| 22:31 | <johnny> seems so .. so what can we do?
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| 22:32 | <Dalik> johnny, thats ok in my situation as the nx client would connect to the ltsp server for openoffice and some other apps and a windows TS server for special applications. A local NX client would allow for better response and richer user experience. I dont care about local devices on the thin/fat client unless this includes the mouse and keyboard but I dont care about local harddrive access as folders would be mapped on login.
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| 22:32 | Beer has joined #ltsp | |
| 22:32 | <johnny> Dalik, or usb keys? sound?
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| 22:32 | cdroms?
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| 22:32 | Beer has quit IRC | |
| 22:32 | <Dalik> johhny, sound is not a problem, and usb not a problem.
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| 22:32 | <dberkholz> johnny: if it's a stabilization bug, not a version bump, it should not be assigned to genstef
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| 22:32 | <johnny> ok.. well you're good to go
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| 22:33 | <dberkholz> johnny: so i'd cc $ARCH@gentoo.org and ask for stabilization
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| 22:33 | and maybe say genstef's been gone for 5+ months
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| 22:33 | <johnny> ah.. kernel-misc is in there
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| 22:33 | ball has quit IRC | |
| 22:33 | <dberkholz> ARCH=x86 in this, i presume
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| 22:33 | <johnny> in the cc
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| 22:33 | <dberkholz> this case*
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| 22:34 | <johnny> hmm.. what's wrong with amd64?
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| 22:35 | <dberkholz> the amd64 team encourages maintainers to stabilize their own packages
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| 22:36 | i see pva bumped sshfs-fuse lately, you could cc him
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| 22:36 | <johnny> pva? email?
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| 22:36 | <dberkholz> pva@
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| 22:36 | <johnny> ok
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| 22:36 | <dberkholz> look at the developer list or changelog to get his name
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| 22:37 | <johnny> cc done
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| 22:38 | we'll see what happens
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| 22:39 | dberkholz, so.. aren't you a proud parent by now?
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| 22:39 | how's that goin?
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| 22:39 | <dberkholz> keeps me busy
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| 22:39 | my daughter's turning 1 year old next week
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| 22:39 | <johnny> it's been that long.. OUCH
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| 22:39 | time flies
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| 22:40 | <dberkholz> yeah i think our gettogether was about 2 months before she was born
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| 22:41 | <sbalneav> johnny: If you'd like to look at something in the next couple of days, a lot of mod_key events don't make it through Xephyr
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| 22:41 | arrows, f-keys, etc.
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| 22:41 | <johnny> sbalneav, that's exactly the kind of thing that stopped me from working on sabayon :)
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| 22:41 | the X crapola
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| 22:42 | i had enough trouble getting one bug fixed with the help of uhmm.. i can't even remember his name..
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| 22:42 | anyways.. he fixed a bug in xkeyboard-settings
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| 22:43 | <dberkholz> svu?
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| 22:43 | <johnny> yep!
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| 22:43 | that's the one..
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| 22:44 | <sbalneav> Well, the problem with perms has been fixed I think, better than last nights fix.
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| 22:44 | last night I added a "mode" to the metadata
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| 22:44 | but the zipfile stores the mode.
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| 22:45 | the problem was to write a file they were doing a:
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| 22:45 | <johnny> sbalneav, also.. i made some cleanups to the website, but NOBODY would help me figure out how to integrate into their system.. NOBODY
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| 22:45 | <sbalneav> file (dest_path, "w").write (zip.read (f))
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| 22:45 | instead of simply doing a zip.extract(f, dest_path).
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| 22:46 | <dberkholz> anyone interested in coming to an open-source conference in minneapolis in a year or so?
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| 22:46 | <johnny> i'm interested in going to any open source conference anywhere :)
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| 22:46 | <sbalneav> johnny: The problem is, sabayon is, effectively, dead upstream
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| 22:46 | <Beer30> that is really close to me :D
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| 22:46 | <johnny> sbalneav, my problem at that point was the web admin folks.. not even sabayon folks
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| 22:47 | <dberkholz> admins tend to be awfully busy
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| 22:47 | <johnny> sbalneav, perhaps collaboration shoudl be done with the kde folks..
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| 22:47 | <sbalneav> federico and umandindu keep it limping along by applying whatever patch, and federico fixed the xephyr problem because novell had a paying customer that wanted it.
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| 22:47 | johnny: on what? kde's got kiosk mode
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| 22:47 | <johnny> if we agree with their approach.. can't we make it gnomeish ?
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| 22:47 | <dberkholz> does sabayon actually work well enough at this point to be usable?
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| 22:48 | <johnny> dberkholz, depends on what you need to do.. i had it usable enough for me..
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| 22:48 | <dberkholz> it was pissing me off a year or two ago
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| 22:48 | <sbalneav> dberkholz: it works not too badly now.
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| 22:48 | I've spent the last 4 months working on it.
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| 22:48 | <dberkholz> sbalneav: rock on
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| 22:49 | <sbalneav> kde = qt, gnome = glibs kde = c++ gnome = c
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| 22:49 | <johnny> sbalneav, and?
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| 22:49 | <dberkholz> i had in mind setting up some sort of reasonable default and then applying it every time i created a new user
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| 22:49 | <johnny> they rely on networkmanager in kde.. and gstreamer.. and shared-mime-info, etc..
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| 22:49 | <sbalneav> I don't think there's a way to make kiosk mode "gnomeish"
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| 22:49 | <dberkholz> but it was totally not working
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| 22:49 | <johnny> kde relies on plenty of things that started in gnome community
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| 22:49 | <dberkholz> menu items, desktop, tray icons, applets, mainly.
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| 22:50 | <sbalneav> right, but they don't use gconf, for example.
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| 22:50 | <johnny> and neither will gnome soon :)
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| 22:50 | gsettings is next
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| 22:50 | iirc
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| 22:50 | <sbalneav> sabayon relies exclusively on receiving gconf events.
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| 22:50 | <dberkholz> gnome is so funny like that.
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| 22:50 | always rewriting stuff instead of fixing bugs
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| 22:51 | <johnny> that's because the bugs are inherent in the original design
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| 22:51 | dberkholz, plus.. more stuff got back into gtk proper .. instead of gnome itself
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| 22:51 | <sbalneav> and if gnome moves to something other than gconf, we can kiss sabayon goodbye unless someone re-engineers it.
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| 22:51 | <johnny> sbalneav, it's going to happen for gnome 3
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| 22:51 | <dberkholz> hopefully they just maintain some kind of compatible api
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| 22:52 | <johnny> dberkholz, probably
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| 22:52 | <sbalneav> then we'll lose sabayon entirely. Unless someone's working on a sabayon replacement for gnome3
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| 22:52 | <johnny> dberkholz, much effort was spent this cycle removing dependencies on things that got moved into gtk proper like the egg stuff.. libgnomeui, etc
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| 22:52 | plus the bonobo crap..
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| 22:53 | dberkholz, i'd say that more stuff got removed then added featurewise for 2.28
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| 22:53 | or rather.. refactored..
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| 22:53 | <dberkholz> yeah, like my ability to turn on my laptop speaker
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| 22:53 | <johnny> is that a problem with gnome?
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| 22:53 | or pulse..
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| 22:53 | <dberkholz> gnome's overly simplified audio interface
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| 22:53 | <johnny> that got fixed
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| 22:54 | <sbalneav> ugh
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| 22:54 | <dberkholz> gnome-alsamixer works fine.
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| 22:54 | <sbalneav> hate the new login widget in karmic
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| 22:54 | <johnny> dberkholz, fedora and ubuntu started shopping the original..
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| 22:54 | shipping*
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| 22:55 | sbalneav, i'd say less important than rewriting.. is making sure the concerns that made the creation of sabayon complicated in the first place are taken care of
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| 22:55 | you might want to talk to ryan lortie (desrt) about that kinda thing
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| 22:55 | <dberkholz> there's an interesting conflict between developer needs and user needs.
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| 22:55 | <johnny> he was working on dconf
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| 22:56 | <sbalneav> Somebody else can.
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| 22:56 | <dberkholz> users need sabayon to keep working. developers want this clean, maintainable design and code, and they don't seem to care about making everyone else port code
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| 22:56 | <sbalneav> I'm getting rather tired of saving the world.
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| 22:56 | <dberkholz> sbalneav: what if we got you a cape, and a fan to blow it out behind you?
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| 22:57 | <johnny> sbalneav, i thought you were just trying to save legal aid.. not the world :)
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| 22:57 | <sbalneav> I'll blow something out behind me, won't be a cape.
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| 22:57 | I don't *need* it at legalaid. I get along fine without it.
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| 22:57 | <johnny> oh.
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| 22:57 | i thought that is why you were working on it
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| 22:57 | <sbalneav> No.
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| 22:57 | <johnny> imo.. canonical should be paying somebody to work on it
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| 22:58 | dont' their customers need it???
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| 22:59 | well.. you are truly a superhero then sbalneav ...
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| 22:59 | <sbalneav> I'm working on it simply because there's so many people who wander in here and #edubuntu looking for some way to manage users and there's nothing. And a guy with millions of dollars who keeps talking about how he wants to be a player in the corporate market has sunk exactly $0 and 0 effort into the ONE tool that he'll need working for anyone to even CONSIDER taking him seriously/
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| 22:59 | <johnny> even without the cape
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| 23:03 | <sbalneav> Why the &*^*^%*& when I install pbuilder do I get postfix?
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| 23:03 | <johnny> lol.. that makes no sense
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| 23:04 | then again.. when i installed imagemagic on centos i got a bunch of gnome libs..
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| 23:05 | try2free has left #ltsp | |
| 23:06 | <sbalneav> A gripe I made earlier to Lns. This entire SRU thing is the biggest joke *ever*. Multi-bin printing does not work, *period* in hardy. You can't WORK in a corporate environment unless you can print on both plain and letterhead and envelope bins. I patched the bug upstream in cups and got the patch accepted, and even produced the .dpatch needed for the hardy packages. Filed the bug in launchpad and contacted the cupsys maintainer in
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| 23:06 | Nine months later...
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| 23:06 | * sbalneav watches tumbleweeds go by | |
| 23:06 | <johnny> i agree..
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| 23:07 | try another distro?
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| 23:07 | <sbalneav> Sucks everywhere.
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| 23:07 | <johnny> they don't pay enough people to work on non modern software
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| 23:08 | <sbalneav> The only disto I ever used that I actually could do anything with was slackware.
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| 23:08 | <johnny> all the people who do the work .. work on new stuff.. not old..
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| 23:08 | sbalneav, so what would have happened if a paying customer had griped?
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| 23:08 | * sbalneav shrugs | |
| 23:08 | <johnny> perhaps it would have been fixed then
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| 23:09 | <sbalneav> Guess that tells you how many *real* *paying* business customers ubuntu has, eh? :)
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| 23:09 | <johnny> imo... it's just too hard to stabilize free software.. it's only recently that we are starting to get modern software that users expect..
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| 23:09 | we're just now getting simple video editing software for example
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| 23:10 | and it requires libs that are very new..
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| 23:10 | since the features werent even there before
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| 23:10 | that were required
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| 23:10 | <sbalneav> I mean, I still like ubuntu the best out of all the distros I've used. It's just... trying to get anyone to fix anything once it's out the door is impossble.
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| 23:11 | <johnny> sbalneav, yeah.. ubuntu is just too slow for me to personally use.. if it weren't for ppas.. it'd be pretty bad for me at work too
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| 23:11 | <sbalneav> Seems like the only way to get something done would be to get core-dev. But I haven't got the time or the inclination to learn packaging inside-out.
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| 23:11 | And that's the fault of the "six months 'till next release" bataan death march they're all on.
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| 23:11 | Look at ogra
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| 23:12 | Works like mad 'till release
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| 23:12 | stuff gets out the door.
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| 23:12 | <johnny> are you in favor of timed releases?
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| 23:12 | just longer?
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| 23:12 | or not at all?
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| 23:12 | <sbalneav> I think timed releases are fine. But 6 months isn't long enough
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| 23:12 | <johnny> perhaps 8 months would be good
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| 23:12 | <sbalneav> 1 year
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| 23:12 | <johnny> gnome runs into the same problems as well
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| 23:12 | <sbalneav> minimum
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| 23:12 | <johnny> a year is too long
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| 23:13 | software is evolving too fast
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| 23:13 | Dalik has quit IRC | |
| 23:13 | <johnny> perhaps in 3 years we can do that..
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| 23:13 | <sbalneav> For WHO?
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| 23:13 | <johnny> remember the kernel situation?
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| 23:13 | with eveyr distro having seriously patched almost incompatible kernels? that situation is much less now
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| 23:13 | <sbalneav> If you're in a business environment, there's no WAY you can change everything every six months, unless you only have a few desktops
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| 23:13 | <johnny> that's the point of lts tho right?
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| 23:14 | <sbalneav> HAHAHAHA
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| 23:14 | <johnny> ubuntu just doesn't pay enough people to do it
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| 23:14 | <sbalneav> WHO'S WORKING ON LTS
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| 23:14 | Answer: no one
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| 23:14 | <johnny> few people work for free on old software..
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| 23:14 | i don't..
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| 23:14 | <sbalneav> they're all working on the next 6 month release
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| 23:15 | <johnny> me thinks sbalneav needs a vacation
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| 23:15 | <sbalneav> If someone were working on LTS, my bug, with dpatch, tested, notified to the cupsys maintainer, would have been FIXED since it plain old fasioned doesn't work.
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| 23:15 | Just got back from one.
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| 23:15 | I need retirement
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| 23:15 | 15 years to go and counting.
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| 23:16 | Can't get here soon enough.
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| 23:16 | It's just frustrating, and I need to vent.
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| 23:16 | <johnny> i understand..
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| 23:19 | <sbalneav> I've been using GNU/Linux for a long time. We've always had an emphasis on new features, sure. But I fondly remember a time when *fixing bugs* was a big priority.
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| 23:19 | Bigger than new features.
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| 23:19 | <johnny> and that was before 2002 i assume?
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| 23:19 | <stgraber> good evening
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| 23:20 | <sbalneav> Evening stgraber!
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| 23:20 | <johnny> stgraber, uhmm.. where are you that it is evening?
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| 23:20 | <sbalneav> stgraber: I've got a karmic box booted
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| 23:20 | in virtual box, so I'm shooting for a karmic package tonight.
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| 23:20 | <stgraber> we are using LTS at Revolution Linux, for all services except the desktop.
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| 23:21 | sbalneav: great
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| 23:21 | sbalneav: did you find a way to fix that automagic issue ?
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| 23:21 | <sbalneav> No
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| 23:21 | But ogra told me to "forget hardy and focus on karmic"
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| 23:21 | LOL
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| 23:21 | See previous rant. :)
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| 23:21 | <stgraber> not very surprising :)
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| 23:22 | <sbalneav> And I'm not blaming ogra. No fault of his.
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| 23:22 | <stgraber> I had to fight someone asking me to upgrade my samba to something fresher than hardy today :)
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| 23:22 | I have hardy everywhere but the LTSP root and the LTSP application servers.
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| 23:22 | <johnny> me personally.. i don't trust lts releases
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| 23:22 | <stgraber> (but I'm really waiting for the next LTS, I'll have to maintain a lot less PPA packages then)
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| 23:22 | <sbalneav> Well, and you're CORE-DEV for crying out loud, where's YOUR vital patch to xdg in the SRU process? :)
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| 23:23 | Stuck in the process :)
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| 23:23 | We're all victims to this monster we've created.
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| 23:23 | <stgraber> sbalneav: yeah ... my libxcb patch is currently somewhere in the process :)
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| 23:23 | sbalneav: I don't really care, I have it in my PPA ...
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| 23:23 | <sbalneav> It's somewhat.... kafkaesque
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| 23:23 | <stgraber> now, I'd have thought that I'm not the only one wanting fast X11 on older distros but well ...
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| 23:24 | <sbalneav> So, lemme see if I got this right...
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| 23:24 | apt-get source sabayon (this is in karmic)
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| 23:24 | move the debian dir out
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| 23:24 | get the new upstream tarball
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| 23:24 | unpack
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| 23:24 | mv the debian dir in there
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| 23:24 | fix up the patches
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| 23:25 | What *name* should I give it?
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| 23:25 | upstream is 2.27.91
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| 23:25 | <stgraber> name ?
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| 23:25 | ok
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| 23:25 | 2.27.91-0ubuntu1 that'd be
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| 23:25 | <sbalneav> current in karmic is 2.27.0-0ubuntu1
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| 23:25 | ok
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| 23:25 | will do.
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| 23:26 | One moment, mon ami
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| 23:26 | <stgraber> I've got time, upgrading my Nokia E51, that can take a while :)
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| 23:27 | especially upgrading it from a Windows 7 VM using the new kvm usb support (fun stuff and working just fine for now)
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| 23:49 | <sbalneav> stgraber: OK, package is built, works successfully on karmic
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| 23:49 | it was hilarous seeing an Xephyr window inside a virtualbox window inside my desktop
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| 23:50 | "How many nested desktops can we have?"
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| 23:50 | I've dputted it to my ppa
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| 23:50 | we'll see if it turns up
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| 23:50 | <stgraber> did you try: lintian -iI *.dsc *.deb ?
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| 23:50 | it usually shows most important packaging issues
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| 23:52 | <sbalneav> Only complaint was out of date standards version
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| 23:57 | <stgraber> ok, you can probably bump it to 3.8.3
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| 23:58 | I guess you made sure the package works correctly on karmic ?
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| 23:58 | if so, I can get it from your PPA, have a quick look around at the changes from current's karmic version to yours and then upload to karmic
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