IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 5 October 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:17 | <mapetrop> Μπορώ να δημιουργήσω χρήστες που να μπορούν να συνδεθούν μόνο από έναν υπολογιστή;
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| 06:19 | <alkisg> Καλημέρα mapetrop
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| 06:19 | Υπάρχει μια οδηγία LDM_LIMIT_USERS που μπορείς να βάλεις στο lts.conf
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| 06:19 | Έτσι ώστε μόνο αυτοί οι χρήστες να μπορούν να συνδεθούν σε έναν συγκεκριμένο Η/Υ
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| 06:19 | Εσύ όμως νομίζω θες το αντίθετο, LDM_BLOCK_USERS
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| 06:20 | <mapetrop> καλημέρα.Θέλω να μην μπαίνουν σε "υπολογιστές" άλλων...
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| 06:20 | <alkisg> Πες μου παράδειγμα
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| 06:20 | Να μπαίνει ο a1-01 μόνο στο pc01, ο a1-02 μόνο στο pc02 κλπ;
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| 06:21 | Ή λες για τον grammateia να μπαίνει μόνο στη γραμματεία;
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| 06:21 | Εεε βασικά πάμε στο ελληνικό κανάλι
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| 06:21 | <mapetrop> ακριβώς. ο a1-01 μόνο στο pc01, ο a1-02 μόνο στο pc02...
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| 06:21 | <alkisg> Γράψε εδώ όπως είσαι: /join #ts.sch.gr
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| 06:21 | !greek
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| 06:21 | <ltsp> greek: Στο παρόν κανάλι μιλάνε μόνο Αγγλικά, για υποστήριξη στα Ελληνικά από την υπηρεσία Τεχνικής Στήριξης ΣΕΠΕΗΥ διαβάστε το http://ts.sch.gr/wiki/IRC και στη συνέχεια πληκτρολογήστε /j #ts.sch.gr
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| 06:22 | <alkisg> mapetrop: γράψε εδώ στο irc αυτή τη γραμμή: /join #ts.sch.gr
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| 07:20 | <mapetrop> /j #ts.sch.gr
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| 07:23 | alkisg: Ευχαριστώ πολύ. Δούλεψε... Ευχαριστω
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| 10:19 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, do I need to add a thin client user to a certain group before they can use USB sticks in LTSP?
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| 11:34 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: in ubuntu ltsp, no
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| 11:48 | <Hyperbyte> mhmmm
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| 11:49 | When someone plugs in a USB stick, it asks for a superuser password.
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| 11:50 | <ogra_> fuse group ?
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| 12:30 | <alkisg> Hyperbyte: which desktop environment?
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| 12:31 | And, what's the output of `sudo ltsp-info` on the server...
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| 12:56 | <bennabiy> alkisg: I have started cleaning up the Ubuntu wiki entries, but do not know how specific to get. I wonder if we can make a section for outdated information, kept for historical references, and keep the current info available.
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| 12:57 | <alkisg> bennabiy: personally I would use the ltsp.org wiki and make a note in the whole ubuntu wiki that it's unmaintained, and a link to wiki.ltsp.org
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| 12:58 | My approach of "each person maintains his own page" seemed to work, but unfortunately not all people will want to adopt that
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| 12:58 | <bennabiy> alkisg: Ok
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| 13:23 | <Hyperbyte> alkisg, it's MATE. I'll have to look at ltsp-info tomorrow. I'm not on location currently.
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| 13:54 | <bennabiy> alkisg: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP - Is that what you were thinking?
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| 14:03 | <bennabiy> alkisg: It is posted on the LTSP wiki " Check if the content is distro-specific or not. Distro-specific content should be added to your distro's documentation, where people tend to look for it. " which would point people back to the Ubuntu wiki which points people back .... you get the picture
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| 14:05 | <alkisg> bennabiy: user experience with ltsp should be the same without caring about distros
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| 14:06 | For example, ltsp-config dnsmasq, ltsp-update-image, things like that
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| 14:06 | <bennabiy> alkisg: I agree. I am just noting what our existing documentation says.
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| 14:06 | <alkisg> If there are distro specific things, the devs should be notified to hide them behind ltsp-config or other commands
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| 14:07 | That should be changed, ltsp from the users side shouldnt' be distro specific
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| 14:07 | It is distro-specific from the developers side, but it shouldn't be from the users side or in the wiki
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| 14:07 | <bennabiy> alkisg: pulled from http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Help:Contents
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Maybe knipwim wrote that, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed
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| 14:08 | <bennabiy> agreed. I just do not want people to get confused as to where to look for information / help
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| 14:08 | <alkisg> Personally I think that the whole https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP should have a banner saying "this is unofficial documentation from ubuntu users, not from the ltsp team - for the ltsp documentation see wiki.ltsp.org"
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| 14:09 | <bennabiy> since I updated the ubuntu wiki to point to ltsp wiki
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| 14:09 | alkisg: would you like for me to update that?
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> Well, I think the ltsp wiki should be updated *before* the ubuntu wiki
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| 14:09 | Otherwise you point the users to non-existing content
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| 14:09 | <bennabiy> alkisg: agreed...
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| 14:10 | alkisg: perhaps one of these meetings you all have should be devoted to catching the documentation up
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| 14:10 | <alkisg> Well now it's just me and vagrantc
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| 14:10 | We barely keep up with the development
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| 14:10 | It's up to others to take over documentation, if they want it
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| 14:11 | The last meeting was what, in 2013?
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| 14:11 | <bennabiy> that sounds right
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| 14:12 | <alkisg> (not talking about BTS, which isn't about programming anymore :D)
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| 14:12 | <bennabiy> I noticed
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| 14:13 | you had some type of hackathon with sbalneav and vagrantc on updating ltsp a couple years ago
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| 14:13 | was that 2014?
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| 14:13 | 2015?
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> Unfortunately that never actually happened
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| 14:13 | <bennabiy> that is sad
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| 14:13 | <alkisg> When me and vagrantc were ready, sbalneav wasn't available, and vice-versa
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| 14:14 | <bennabiy> hrm
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| 14:14 | alkisg: on a different note, I cannot seem to get a printer shared to a fat client even though it is shared on the server
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> distro/version?
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| 14:15 | <bennabiy> 16.04 MATE
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| 14:15 | 64 bit
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| 14:15 | client and server
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> Do you have anything printer-related in lts.conf?
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| 14:15 | <bennabiy> nope
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| 14:16 | didn't know I needed anything in there
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Is the printer connected to the server?
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| 14:16 | Nothing is needed in lts.conf
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| 14:16 | <bennabiy> it is networked
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Is the printer configured and shared on the server?
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| 14:16 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 14:16 | <alkisg> Can you see the printer *on the server* from a standalone pc on the network?
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| 14:16 | Because I"m not sure that network printers are published by default...
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| 14:17 | <bennabiy> I am about to fire up my client again
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> to prevent duplicate printers
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| 14:17 | <bennabiy> I checked my settings on the server (which I am working from right now) and it is shared
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| 14:17 | <alkisg> Check from a standalone client
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| 14:18 | To be able to see the printer *on the server* and not directly on the network
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| 14:18 | <bennabiy> unfortunately I only have one monitor to use between the two computers, so I can look at the screen on one and then the other
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| 14:18 | If I understand what you mean, check from the LTSP network (2 nic setup) to see if I can see the shared printer, and not the printer by IP directly
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| 14:18 | correct?
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| 14:19 | from my fat client, or from a standalone system?
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| 14:19 | would a virtual machine work if I linked it to my ltsp network?
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| 14:24 | booting a liveCD on LTSP network
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| 14:26 | alkisg: yes, I see the shared printers from a liveCD on the LTSP network
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| 14:27 | and printing works
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| 14:27 | alkisg: from the liveCD
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| 14:51 | <bennabiy> alkisg: now it is working... hrm
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| 14:51 | * bennabiy shrugs | |
| 14:52 | <alkisg> bennabiy: cups refresh interval? maybe you shared it and then checked immediately without letting some time pass?
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| 14:52 | <bennabiy> alkisg: could be
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| 14:52 | <alkisg> Or maybe you enabled sharing after the client had booted
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| 14:52 | <bennabiy> alkisg: that is probably what happened
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| 14:53 | I am going to reboot and log in on my fat client now
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| 14:53 | alkisg: what is the best way to make a fat client changes permanent. You mentioned before that I could set the NBD as RW?
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| 14:54 | regenerating the image after each security update or letting them all accumulate in the RAM is not a very effective model
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| 14:54 | <alkisg> bennabiy: the ltsp philosophy is "the image will be discarded on reboot; do arbitrary changes in init-ltsp.d"
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| 14:54 | It's not a good idea to store the changes of an ltsp client
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| 14:55 | Do things server-side
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| 14:55 | If you want to use a VM as the ltsp-pnp server (+template client), go ahead; but making the changes from an init=/sbin/init-ltsp client isn't good pracise
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| 14:56 | *practise
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| 14:56 | <bennabiy> alkisg: true
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| 14:57 | I am just looking at times where I personally need to install packages, or test things, and then if I let enough time go by before reboot, I forget to permanently install those items and then wonder why it isn't working when I try again later
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> Some times we want those packages to remain installed; other times we do want them purged on reboot
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| 14:58 | <bennabiy> and I can only generate my image ltsp-pnp style so often because I have to unmount certain bind mounts because they do not allow the image to be generated
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| 14:58 | <alkisg> Doing it on the server vs on the client is a good separation between those
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| 14:58 | You shouldn't need to unmount anything though; that can be fixed
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| 14:59 | <bennabiy> alkisg: have not found a fix yet
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> For example, you can mount them elsewhere and exclude them from ltsp-update-image.excludes
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| 14:59 | E.g. mounts under /mnt or /media are already excluded
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| 14:59 | <bennabiy> I have tried that, but can try again
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| 15:00 | alkisg: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8916030
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| 15:00 | that is an example I get for anything bind mounted
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> bennabiy: I have 30 bind-mounts under /home/Shared and never had a problem
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| 15:01 | Does the dir exist in the lower file system as well?
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| 15:01 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> I don't think so.
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| 15:02 | <bennabiy> well, somewhat
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| 15:02 | zfs
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| 15:02 | home is a zfs mount
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> I think I did solve that issue in the ltsp trunk... I'm not sure if it made it to 16.04
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| 15:03 | The problem is that /home/bennabiy/Mounts/Documents does not exist in the ext4 file system
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| 15:03 | Not in the zfs one
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| 15:03 | <bennabiy> alkisg: that is correct
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> So if you create it, you bypass the problem
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| 15:03 | <bennabiy> the zfs will not mount on a non empty directory
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> (until a newer ltsp is shipped)
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| 15:04 | Really? That's strange.
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| 15:04 | <bennabiy> /home needs to be empty for zfs to mount
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Hmmm I did put the correct mkdir there, and it doesn't happen to me with ext4+bind mounts
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| 15:08 | So it might be related specifically to zfs
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| 15:09 | bennabiy: anyway, just specify /home in EXCLUDED_MOUNTS
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| 15:09 | To bypass all those submounts completely
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| 15:10 | <bennabiy> alkisg: will try that
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| 15:10 | <alkisg> See the get_mounts function of ltsp-update-image.
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| 15:11 | <bennabiy> I already have home/* in there
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| 15:12 | in ltsp-update-image.excludes
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| 15:12 | alkisg: ^
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| 16:20 | <bennabiy> alkisg: is there a way to use epoptes from a fat client?
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| 16:20 | could I do remoteapps and have it work?
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| 19:40 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: Do you have thoughts about how to get documentation caught up?
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| 19:43 | vagrantc: also, do you know why my fingerprint reader would work on my server, but not on the client I made from the server?
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| 19:45 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: same way anything changes ... people interested in it fix it
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| 19:45 | bennabiy: tinkered with the idea of crowd-funding various parts ... but haven't really had anyone able to take on the work of making that happen
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| 19:47 | bennabiy: how is the fingerprint reader supposed to work? using an ltsp-pnp-style fat client?
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| 19:48 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: it uses fprintd / fingerprint-gui and yes on a fat client
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: is there machine-specific configuration encoded in fprintd or something like that?
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| 19:49 | <bennabiy> vagrantc: not that I know of
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> don't really have any experience, but that's the only thing i could think of off the top of my head
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| 19:49 | <bennabiy> the gui runs, and I can see the device in it, but then when it goes to read from the device, it says no permissions
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| 19:50 | but the ltsp-pnp image was generated from a server where it was working fine
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> maybe it's a permissions issue? :P
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| 19:51 | could be some sort of consolekit or some other system that ldm doesn't implement
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| 19:51 | <bennabiy> one second
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| 19:51 | <vagrantc> could try it by using a kiosk session
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| 19:51 | well, that might not either
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| 19:52 | you could experiment with your fat client using lightdm or gdm3 instead of ldm
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| 19:53 | authenticated logins?
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| 19:53 | <bennabiy> authenticated logins and sudo password entry etc
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| 19:54 | I checked pam-auth-update and it lists it in there
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| 19:54 | It uses libbsapi policykit-1-fingerprint-gui fingerprint-gui
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| 19:54 | oops
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| 19:54 | double type
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> ldm doesn't do pam
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| 19:55 | <bennabiy> what about post login
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| 19:55 | the device still gives me the cannot read error
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> what do you mean post login?
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| 19:56 | <bennabiy> like if I do not use it to login, but then post login if I use it for sudo password etc
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| 19:57 | <vagrantc> use what how?
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| 19:57 | * bennabiy sighs | |
| 19:58 | <vagrantc> you're asking about systems i have virtually no information about, so please be specific
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| 19:59 | <bennabiy> Ok, so... If I just want to access the device, which in general is just a camera which takes a picture of the finger. Where are permissions set for USB devices of that nature?
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| 20:00 | <vagrantc> nowhere LTSP specific
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| 20:01 | probably some lack of policykit/consolekit/someotherrandomkit
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| 20:01 | that ldm doesn't implement
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| 20:02 | bennabiy: is there a /dev/video device? what are it's permissions
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| 20:04 | <bennabiy> nope
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| 20:04 | anyway, it is probably not an LTSP issue apart from the fact that the generation of the image causes it to not work
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| 20:04 | <vagrantc> can you access the camera from commandline on your server?
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| 20:05 | <bennabiy> I cannot see what the device is called as far as /dev is concerned
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| 20:05 | <vagrantc> what does fprintd access?
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| 20:06 | <razielle_tzu> fingerprint readers don't appear as a /dev/video, i can't remember what they do appear as though as neither of hte ones i have are supported by fprintd
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> could you boot your server as a fat client (e.g. move the image elsewhere and boot it)
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| 20:06 | see if it works then?
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| 20:07 | i guess you'd also have to have homedir mounting elsewhere ...
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| 20:07 | and ssh auth
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| 20:26 | <alkisg> bennabiy: I was talking about the EXCLUDED_MOUNTS variable, not ltsp-update-image.excludes. It's a different thing.
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| 20:27 | bennabiy: to use epoptes from a fat client, see the epoptes.org documentation pages
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| 20:27 | That one is maintained ;)
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| 20:29 | <bennabiy> alkisg: I got epoptes working
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| 20:29 | <alkisg> About the finger print reader permissions, first try as root, to see if it's indeed a permissions issue and not a wrong message
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| 20:30 | <bennabiy> alkisg: worked as root
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> Nice. What command do you run to check?
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| 20:31 | <bennabiy> sudo fingerprint-gui
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> And it shows what, a screenshot of a fingerprint?
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| 20:32 | <bennabiy> it actually verifies that it will work with sudo etc, and it takes a fingerprint scan etc
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| 20:32 | it recognized my system already had my prints registered and verified them
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| 20:33 | <vagrantc> sounds like it really is a permissions issue, then...
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| 20:33 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:33 | <alkisg> When you run sudo ls, do you get a fingerprint prompt?
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| 20:34 | <bennabiy> no
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| 20:34 | <alkisg> I don't understand the use of the fingerprint reader
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| 20:34 | So I don't understand at what point it's going to read from the device node
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| 20:34 | <bennabiy> alkisg: it is supposed to prompt me
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| 20:34 | it just doesnt right now
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| 20:34 | alkisg: I misunderstood your question
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> So you want to do authentication using fingerprints when running sudo etc
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| 20:35 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 20:35 | and unlocking the screen
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> I'm not sure we got the "root" question/answer correctly now
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| 20:36 | So, the root user doesn't have a registered fingerprint, right?
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| 20:37 | Is there some way to check if the fingerprint reader is working, without involving pam?
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| 20:37 | Like, fingerprint-gui, read my fingerprint but don't involve authenticaiton
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| 20:47 | <bennabiy> alkisg: I do have a fingerprint registered for root
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| 20:48 | alkisg: I can do fprint_demo to test basic reading
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| 20:48 | as user, it does not work
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| 20:48 | I did not test it with root
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| 20:48 | <alkisg> bennabiy: fprint_demo checks the user fingerprint against the saved one?
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| 20:49 | <bennabiy> alkisg: nope, it is just a sample program that tests the reader and saves a print and compares it
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| 20:49 | <alkisg> OK, try strace -e trace=file fprint_demo, and see which device node it tries to read
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| 20:50 | Or if child processes are needed, strace -f -e trace=file fprint_demo
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| 20:51 | And test it as root as well
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| 20:53 | <bennabiy> [pid 14700] open("/sys/bus/usb/devices/1-5.2.1.2/descriptors", O_RDONLY) = 12
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| 20:53 | as root
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| 20:53 | worked
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> /dev/something
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| 20:57 | <bennabiy> nope, all within /sys
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| 20:58 | no /dev
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| 20:58 | Bus 001 Device 055: ID 0483:2015 STMicroelectronics TouchChip® Fingerprint Reader
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| 20:58 | or if it is under dev, I did not see record of it
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| 20:59 | I will dump strace to file and pastebin it
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| 20:59 | <vagrantc> it's probably a usb generic device with no device node
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| 21:01 | <bennabiy> /dev/bus/usb/001/055
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| 21:01 | I straced fingerprint-gui
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| 21:06 | I think I see the issue
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| 21:06 | on the fat client, my user got removed from the plugdev group
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| 21:06 | but on the server I am still a member
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| 21:08 | and after adding my user to plugdev, and doing a su to my user, it prompted me for my fingerprint and passed it, but then the gui still failed because I have not logged out and back in
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| 21:09 | I have also noticed that with my fat client, my user was removed as an admin login to do updates etc, but I can still sudo
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| 21:09 | and other users in the plugdev were not removed...
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| 21:10 | is it because my user is a local user and the rest are all LDAP users?
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| 21:10 | alkisg, vagrantc ^
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| 21:11 | <vagrantc> local user where?
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| 21:11 | <bennabiy> local on the server
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| 21:11 | actually I am both in LDAP and on the server
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> try as a user that's only in LDAP ?
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| 21:13 | <bennabiy> back in a minute
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> speculations are often harder to answer than simplying experimenting :)
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| 21:17 | <bennabiy> worked basically under an LDAP user
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| 21:18 | the gui etc worked
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| 21:19 | <bennabiy> if I look in /etc/group on the fat client, my user was removed from it
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| 21:19 | but all the LDAP members are still there
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> there's some overly complicated logic attempting to resolve discrepencies in group name vs. group id, and it can fall down badly.
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| 21:40 | i think it's in ldm's localapps hooks, which are also used by fat clients
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| 23:56 | <professor_> I wonder when you can develop epoptes to be run in Windows environment
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| 23:58 | someone can answer me this question?
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| 23:59 | <razielle_tzu> what question? that was a statement :)
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