IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 April 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:00 | <elias_a> Good morning!
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| 06:01 | An hour to our webinar. alkisg and his colleague Yannis Siahos will tell us how their system is done.
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| 06:01 | <elias_a> You are all welcome to join us online: http://educoss.blogspot.com/2012/04/webinar-on-linux-terminal-server.html
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| 08:07 | <elias_a> Quite few people in the webinar...
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| 08:09 | <knipwim> shame i have to work myself
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| 08:09 | i can't even listen in :(
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| 08:10 | <Hyperbyte> knipwim, I had to turn off the company firewall for Adobe Connect to ... connect.
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| 08:10 | Luckily those are things I can do. :P
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| 08:10 | <knipwim> hehe :)
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| 08:12 | <elias_a> Well - I recorded the session.
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| 08:14 | Hyperbyte: Can you drop me an email? I have to ask some background info from participants.
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| 08:14 | Normally I use a Gdocs form but noticed too late that it is of course in Finnish...
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| 08:15 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, what do you want to know about me?
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| 08:15 | <elias_a> age, education, regular blahblah like that...
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| 08:15 | Hyperbyte: If that's ok?
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| 08:16 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, why not do it in here?
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| 08:16 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: It is so much easier that I send all participants the link to the form I am going to translate.
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| 08:17 | <Hyperbyte> There were a total of three participants if I'm not mistaken?
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| 08:17 | <elias_a> It is click and go-solution :P
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| 08:17 | Hyperbyte: No, some left before you came. Fortunately...
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| 08:17 | <Hyperbyte> Plus, I was there for 10 minutes and I lurked a little....
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| 08:17 | <elias_a> Ermmm... I mean....
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| 08:18 | Some left before you came.
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| 08:18 | Hyperbyte: So it worked OK in a terminal?
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| 08:18 | Hyperbyte: Was it a thin client?
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| 08:20 | <Hyperbyte> Yessir.
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| 08:20 | :)
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| 08:20 | With 1920x1080 display. I would've expected flash to lag more, but video seemed very smooth.
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| 08:21 | <elias_a> That is actually unbeliveable... :O
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| 08:21 | <Hyperbyte> What I don't like is that it couldn't tell me "I'm trying to connect to connect.adobe.com port 1234 and it doesn't work"
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| 08:21 | <elias_a> No, really, there is not much video information.
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| 08:21 | <Hyperbyte> It just says connection failed, so rather than opening a single port which is allowed, I had to open up my entire network.
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| 08:21 | <elias_a> The quality is quite low.
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| 08:21 | <Hyperbyte> So just for that I'd never use it again.
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| 08:22 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Don't you have to use RTMP for other purposes?
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| 08:22 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, I have no idea what RTMP is.
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| 08:23 | <Hyperbyte> But I can tell you I rarely use Adobe solutions for anything web.
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| 08:23 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Messaging_Protocol
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| 08:24 | The problem is that the protocol is used in some streaming systems, too.
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| 08:25 | For example the Finnish Broadcasting Corporation used it at least some time ago.
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| 08:25 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, I honestly couldn't care less about RTMP.
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| 08:26 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Ok.
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| 08:26 | <Hyperbyte> You posted a link here, I clicked it, it didn't work without me opening something in my firewall, but it didn't say what.
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| 08:27 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Just being curious - is it a company network?
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| 08:27 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, I am at work.
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| 08:27 | =)
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| 08:29 | <elias_a> Hyperbyte: Ok. The reason for asking is that here in Finland the use of conferencing software is so wide spread that it is impossible to keep the RTMP ports closed.
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| 08:30 | There was a big mess and nagging going on about it 2-3 years ago.
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| 08:46 | <Hyperbyte> elias_a, :-)
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| 09:19 | <mealstrom> hi, im trying to use nfs4 to mount home directories, can some one help me this ? my system mounts home dirs with sshfs even with NFS_HOME option
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| 09:45 | <mealstrom> look like /home wasnt empty
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| 12:12 | <Hyperbyte> Hi
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| 12:12 | I'd like to make an offtopic statement, which may or may not invoke intelligent discussion and/or flame wars.
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| 12:13 | SOAP is the most horrible implementation of a good idea, ever.
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| 12:13 | Thank you for your attention.
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| 12:14 | <stgraber> ;)
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| 12:23 | <mealstrom> has anyone mounted /home as nfs share?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 12:24 | <mealstrom> nice :D , have you tried to mount it as nfs4 share ?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 12:25 | <mealstrom> via NFS_HOME and NFS_HOME_OPTIONS at lts.conf ?
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| 12:25 | im using FAT_CLIENT configurations
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 12:32 | <elias_a> alkisg: Thank you once again for the session!
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| 12:32 | <alkisg> elias_a: you're welcome, thank you too
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| 12:32 | mealstrom: if you have questions, please ask them here, not in PMs
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| 12:33 | <mealstrom> alkisg: ok
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| 12:33 | lts.conf: : NFS_HOME="192.168.2.244:/" NFS_HOME_OPTIONS="proto=tcp,port=2049,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,bg,user,exec
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| 12:34 | nfsserver export: /export/users 192.168.2.0/24(rw,sync,no_subtree_check,anongid=2000,fsid=0)
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| 12:34 | when user logins -- home directory is mounted via sshfs
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| 12:34 | <alkisg> distro/version?
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| 12:35 | <mealstrom> ltsp server : ubuntu 10.04 i386 , fat-client ubuntu 10.10 i386
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> !SCREEN_02
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| 12:36 | <ltsp> alkisg: SCREEN_02: To get a root shell on an Ubuntu thin client: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting#Using_a_shell_SCREEN
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| 12:36 | <alkisg> Can you mount your nfs /home from there, before login?
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| 12:36 | (manually...)
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| 12:37 | <mealstrom> yes. i can
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> With what command line?
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| 12:37 | <mealstrom> mount -t nfs4 -o proto=tcp,port=2049,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,bg,user,exec 192.168.2.244:/ /home
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| 12:37 | -t nfs4 -- is ok, ive updated it at /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common
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| 12:39 | clientmachine: cat /etc/mtab 192.168.2.244:/export/users/username /export/users/username fuse.sshfs rw,nosuid,nodev,max_read=65536,allow_other 0 0
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| 12:40 | <alkisg> And getltscfg -a returns the correct lts.conf values?
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| 12:40 | <mealstrom> alkisg: yes, lts.conf is correct on client machine
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| 12:41 | <alkisg> Can you pastebin the output of getltscfg -a ?
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| 12:41 | You can also do that from a localxterm, to paste it more easily...
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| 12:41 | !localxterm
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| 12:41 | <ltsp> alkisg: localxterm: Any applications that you launch on a thin client actually run on the server. However, if in a client you run 'ltsp-localapps xterm', a local xterm will open, and any commands that you enter there will be executed locally on the client.
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| 12:42 | <alkisg> Or you can scp the output to your server, whatever's easiest for you
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| 12:43 | <mealstrom> LDM_DIRECTX="True"
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| 12:43 | LDM_SESSION="gnome-session"
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| 12:43 | NFS_HOME="192.168.2.244:/"
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| 12:43 | TIMEZONE="Europe/Kiev"
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| 12:43 | LTSP_FATCLIENT="FALSE"
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| 12:43 | NBD_SWAP="false"
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| 12:43 | NFS_HOME_OPTIONS="proto=tcp,port=2049,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,bg,user,exec"
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| 12:43 | CONFIGURE_X="True"
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| 12:43 | that what ive got on getltscfg -a
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| 12:47 | <alkisg> I'm not sure if NFS_HOME can work with LTSP_FATCLIENT=False
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| 12:48 | ...where was configure_home called from? (it's been removed in 12.04...)
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| 12:48 | Ah, ltsp-client-setup
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| 12:50 | Btw did you run ltsp-update-image after the nfs4 change?
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| 12:50 | <mealstrom> FAT_CLIENT only unset LOCALDEV , set SOUND=false
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| 12:50 | yes
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| 12:50 | ive'run it 4 times when was trying with nfs4 configs
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| 12:52 | users on server at /etc/shadow have homedirs like /export/users/usernames
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| 12:55 | <alkisg> mealstrom: try eval $(getltscfg -a); . /usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common; configure_home
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| 12:55 | ...and see what error messages you get
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| 12:56 | You said that you don't have NFS mounted before login, right? So do that from SCREEN_02...
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| 12:58 | <mealstrom> ive done nfs mount before login. and after user logins it make sshfs
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| 13:00 | home isnt mounted
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| 13:06 | if [ "$NFS_HOME" = ${NFS_HOME#*:/} ] -- error if nfs_home=192.168.2.244:/
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| 13:06 | but home is mounted if i run just configure_home function
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| 13:08 | <alkisg> Ah OK I see
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| 13:09 | Put quotes around that
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| 13:09 | "$NFS_HOME" = "${NFS_HOME#*:/}"
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| 13:10 | <mealstrom> this fix error, /home is mounted
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| 13:10 | if i do it manually
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| 13:11 | <alkisg> Modify the script and run ltsp-update-image
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| 13:11 | mealstrom: also file a bug about it, as it still affects upstream (compatibility) code
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| 13:11 | !ltsp-bug
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| 13:11 | <ltsp> alkisg: ltsp-bug: To file a bug report for upstream LTSP, go to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp
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| 13:12 | <alkisg> Ah no, it doesn't, it just has : now
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| 13:13 | <mealstrom> ltsp doesnt support -t nfs4 at mounting, ive updated some files to support this. Ill 've result at 10 minutes if this worsk
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> In 12.04 NFS_HOME is deprecated
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| 13:13 | You just put FSTAB_0 to 9 lts.conf options for whatever you want
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| 13:14 | <mealstrom> this is at 12.04 only, ive got 10.04 server and 11.10 client
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 13:14 | <mealstrom> *10.10
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| 13:14 | <alkisg> But you can easily do that in 10.04 too, with an RCFILES_01 script
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| 13:14 | Or with CONFIGURE_FSTAB=False
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| 13:17 | <mealstrom> omg, i will test nfs home via fstab after image-update will end.
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| 13:18 | alkisg: thank you for help
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> np
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| 13:27 | <elias_a> alkisg is our hero!
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| 13:29 | <mealstrom> nah, nfshome fix didnt help. trying fstab
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| 15:05 | * alkisg waves to vagrantc | |
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| 15:06 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 15:06 | <Phantomas> Hello there! :)
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| 15:13 | * Hyperbyte waves to everybody! | |
| 15:13 | <elias_a> :D
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| 15:14 | Seems like the tsunami is here... :P
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| 16:21 | <sbalneav> Morning all.
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| 16:24 | <ogra_> !s
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| 16:24 | <ltsp> ogra_: s: Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> sbalneav: /j #ltspweb
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| 16:31 | <knipwim> alkisg: what's ltspweb about?
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| 16:40 | <elias_a> sbalneav: Morning... :P
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| 16:41 | <jammcq> !seen gadi
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| 16:41 | <ltsp> jammcq: gadi was last seen in #ltsp 14 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 2 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <Gadi> :)
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| 16:41 | <jammcq> whoa
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| 16:41 | <ogra_> at least he smiled
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| 16:42 | <jammcq> ogra_: howdie
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| 16:43 | <ogra_> hey hey
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| 19:48 | <JensenDan> Hello again guys.. i did a fresh install and set up ltsp.. now its working like a charm.. BUT, now i have one problem. when i connect the rest of the net, it serves ltsp service on the wrong eth, how to change that?
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| 19:55 | <vagrantc> there's impatience, and then there's impatience...
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| 20:46 | <markit> mm dnsmasq does not start automatically
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| 20:46 | I do hate this "service" stuff, I'm lost
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| 20:47 | dnsmasq[1294]: impossible access to /etc/dnsmasq.d: so strange
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| 20:47 | mmm in fact is not there
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| 20:47 | * markit wonders whty | |
| 20:48 | <markit> urgh, I do remember
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| 20:48 | ehm :) sorry for the noise
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| 20:48 | sepski has joined IRC (sepski!~sep@79.170.82.107) | |
| 20:48 | <markit> was a testing vm, vandalized to try to find out why squid3 was killed by dnsmasq :)
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| 20:48 | * markit going to restore previous backup asap | |
| 20:48 | sepski is now known as Guest90194 | |
| 20:49 | <markit> alkisg: I want to test if this bug is really solved: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/237732 (you marked as Invalid)
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> markit: there are 2 bug trackers in launchpad
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| 21:03 | One for ubuntu-specific bugs, and one for upstream ltsp bugs
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| 21:03 | I just changed the bug tracker from the ubuntu one to the upstream one
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| 21:16 | <markit> I read it quickly, seemd a but related to kde
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| 21:16 | I remember ubuntu was able to notify usb insertion, kde not
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| 21:16 | and I tried to convince dev to take care about it
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| 21:16 | but no one cared in chat
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| 21:17 | or was too complicated since ltsp dev had not time to investigate kde problem, and kde dev did not know about ltsp "details"
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| 21:22 | aptitude full-upgrade: 403 Forbidden [IP: 193.206.139.34 80] wondering if is a squid3 issue :(
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| 21:26 | mmm I've disabled fat client and now login is really slow, video image is corrupted etc
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| 21:27 | does not sound good
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| 21:28 | the bottom taskbar is the only element ok
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| 21:28 | if I run a program, it's window is like split in 2 or 4
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| 21:28 | with colors messed up
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| 21:30 | REISUB
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| 21:30 | would be sad that I've tested only FAT so far, and thin is broken
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> markit: you've written so much that I lost track of what your actual problem is
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| 21:31 | Thin clients work fine here...
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| 21:32 | <markit> not here...
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| 21:32 | I've tried to login with a different user
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| 21:32 | just in case the FAT login broke something
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| 21:32 | I've forgot the password
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| 21:32 | I entered wrong the first time, and I was put back to ldm login
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| 21:32 | I entered again wrong, and I got a BLACK screen
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| 21:33 | <alkisg> So you have a graphics module problem?
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| 21:33 | <markit> REISUB again
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| 21:33 | well, when booted as FAT worked fine
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| 21:34 | <alkisg> Right, so the graphics module only appears on remote X, ok
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| 21:34 | *problem
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| 21:34 | Try with another client then, or disable modeset, the usual stuff for X problems
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| 21:36 | <markit> is really normal that video stuff works fine as "standalone" and not as thin? Isn't the same kernel / video driver?
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| 21:37 | urgh, image corrupted also in my netbook (with lan boot)
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| 21:37 | let me check lts.conf
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> Do you mean after you login?
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| 21:38 | <markit> let's comment out X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=True
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| 21:38 | <alkisg> It's true by default, so that won't help
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| 21:39 | <markit> in fact :(
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| 21:40 | yep, I login correctly, I've the bottom taskbar perfect
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| 21:40 | but desktop or every program I run is "ruined", let me send you a photo
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> markit: so, set X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> What are you using? kwin?
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| 21:40 | Does that use compositing?
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| 21:41 | If so, try to disable it
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| 21:41 | <markit> ehm, and set MARKIT_PLS_BECOME_SMARTER=true
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| 21:41 | <alkisg> (instead of changing the color depth)
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| 21:41 | <markit> I'm a bit in panic :)
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| 21:41 | <alkisg> That should make it go faster too
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| 21:41 | Yes, you need to slow down
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| 21:42 | <markit> it works !! !
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| 21:44 | ok, so for fat worked since was defaulting to 32 bit
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| 21:44 | but 16 for thin
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| 21:44 | <alkisg> Yes, that's a graphics module problem
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| 21:44 | But I think it's better to solve it by disabling compositing
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| 21:44 | <markit> why X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False should make it work faster? more bit depth = more bandwidt
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| 21:44 | <alkisg> It'll go faster
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| 21:44 | No I didn't say that
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| 21:45 | I said to keep X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=True, the default,
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| 21:45 | <markit> "It'll go faster"
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| 21:45 | <alkisg> and to find a way to disable compositing INSTEAD of setting X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=False,
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| 21:45 | because THAT will make it go faster
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| 21:45 | I.e. to keep 16 bit color depth
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| 21:45 | <markit> I see
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| 21:45 | btw, kde should autodetect video capabilities and disable composition
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| 21:46 | and I was sure to have disabled it on global settings, but probably I'm wrong
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| 21:46 | <markit> thanks a lot for the help, having ltsp broken would have been a disaster
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| 21:46 | I'll have to deploy a thin solution next week
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| 21:46 | <alkisg> First google hit, try that: "One way to enable/disable compositing in KWin 4.7.0 is via System Settings > Desktop Effects > tick/untick ‘Enable desktop effects at startup’ > Apply."
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| 21:46 | <markit> this time for job... they asked a GNU solution to the company I work for
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| 21:47 | <alkisg> Cool!
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| 21:47 | <markit> alkisg: I know, but I have to do it globally, and seems does not work (it did in 11.04)
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| 21:47 | <markit> yep, cool... they have 12 pc with ubuntu "stand alone" now
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| 21:48 | with 9.x I suppose
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| 21:48 | btw, in thin pluggin the usb stick did not made the notification work
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| 21:48 | <alkisg> I'm not using localdevs, no idea about that
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| 21:49 | <markit> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/237732 is about this issue
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| 21:49 | so should be kept open, no?
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| 21:49 | * markit will dig about localdevs later | |
| 21:49 | <alkisg> It is open...
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| 21:50 | <markit> ah, sorry
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| 21:50 | in ubuntu is invalid
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| 21:50 | now I understand what you said
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| 21:50 | I read only the bottom line wondering if there were news about it
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| 21:50 | and misunderstdood, as usual :(
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| 21:51 | <alkisg> No worries, at least in the end you understand and try to do the right thing :)
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| 21:51 | <markit> I'm newbie in too many fields, so ashaming
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| 21:51 | <alkisg> I'm waiting for .deb packages out of you in a couple of years :D
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| 21:51 | <markit> hahaha, don't dare install them
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| 21:51 | probably they would eat your pc
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| 21:52 | seriously there are many situations where I would love to help
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| 21:52 | and that with a little work will improve a lot
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| 21:52 | like fix sankoré italian translations
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| 21:52 | or something like that
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| 21:52 | but get involved in a project takes so much time
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| 21:52 | <alkisg> But it's time well invested
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| 21:53 | <markit> and I've only some hours late after dinner
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| 21:53 | <alkisg> While writing a script is only good for local installations
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| 21:53 | Btw, did you try ltsp-pnp? If you're using fat clients, it should make your life easier...
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| 21:53 | <markit> yep, but having local children use GNU is very rewarding for me
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| 21:53 | do you want to add one more thing ? :)
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| 21:54 | I'm already in troubles, lol
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| 21:54 | <alkisg> Maybe one more, maybe 10 less, dunno, your calll
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| 21:54 | <markit> I was thinking about a VM to have installed in a laptop of my collegue
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| 21:54 | to go around in schools and show... but should be fat+thin client enabled
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| 21:55 | but let me take note of what I learned tonight about that lts.conf parameter
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| 21:55 | I've a broken memory
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| 21:56 | <alkisg> markit: if teachers ask you how to install programs in fat clients, what do you tell them?
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| 21:56 | <markit> I tell them "don't worry, you don't need it" ;P
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| 21:56 | in fact even updating chroot for thin is not easy
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| 21:56 | i.e. yesterday teacher updated the server
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| 21:56 | and new epoptes got installed
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| 21:57 | <alkisg> In fact, that's why all greek schools will now stop using chroots :)
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| 21:57 | <markit> so I had to explain her how to update chroot and rebuild image
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| 21:57 | <alkisg> It's hard for teachers to maintain chroots, even with automation scripts
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| 21:57 | <markit> really?
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| 21:57 | I mean
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| 21:57 | my teacher are not able to install programs in any case
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| 21:57 | if you have a teachy teacher
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| 21:57 | <alkisg> Not even from software-center?
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| 21:57 | <markit> is easy with ltsp-chroot
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| 21:58 | they have plenty of sw installed they don't know about
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| 21:58 | is so sad
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| 21:58 | if commercial softwar is promoted they want it
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| 21:58 | but probably it does what they already have but don't know
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| 21:58 | and never took care of check
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| 21:58 | <alkisg> Some teachers here click on the "update chroot" menu. The installation starts. Then their network connection fails and the installation is broken.
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| 21:58 | <markit> like gcompris has 130+ activities for small children
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| 21:58 | <alkisg> ...they don't care, they go to the next menu "update image"
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| 21:59 | ...and then they ask why the clients won't boot anymore
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| 21:59 | <markit> as usual :(
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| 21:59 | <alkisg> That's why we won't be using chroots anymore, let them use only GUI tools
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| 21:59 | Software-center, synaptics or whatever else they like
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| 22:00 | <markit> but then the installation will fail graphically
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| 22:00 | <alkisg> Yes, but they understand that
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| 22:00 | <markit> and they will rebuild the image graphically
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| 22:00 | <alkisg> They know graphical failures from windows
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| 22:00 | <markit> and everything will be graphically broken
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| 22:00 | isn't it so MAD?
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| 22:00 | we have gone beyond the alarm level
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| 22:00 | <alkisg> I did put a "ltsp-publish-image --revert" option, to get them back to the previous image that worked ;)
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| 22:01 | <markit> yep, but people need to know more about software
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| 22:01 | <alkisg> Well, actually software needs to become a lot smarter
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| 22:01 | <markit> "program or be programmed" :)
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| 22:01 | also true
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| 22:01 | but I'm realizing that they don't even imagin what sw is
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| 22:01 | they think of it like a phisical stuff
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| 22:02 | I've installed ABC is like I have abc on my table
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| 22:02 | but abc on the table has not 100.000 instructions that do what you can't imagin
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| 22:02 | that's also why they don't care about free software
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| 22:03 | they don't understand the issue
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| 22:03 | also they don't understand viruses
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| 22:03 | trojans
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| 22:03 | "google for program X, download and double click on the .exe" stuff
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| 22:03 | children are told "don't accept candis from strangers"
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| 22:04 | but they accept code from strangers like were normal
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| 22:04 | because they don't know about this stuff either the basic principles
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| 22:04 | ok, enough ranting for today :)
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| 22:04 | probably you have an "ignore markit ranting" button somewhere
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| 22:05 | you need it :)
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| 22:05 | <muppis> No, just trying to avoid interrupt..
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| 22:11 | <markit> muppis: yep, I often feel guilty for that
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| 22:11 | <muppis> Have a good night. I'll try catch some sleep.
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| 22:17 | <markit> alkisg: I've found that just did not disabled globally composition, now it works with X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=True, but the image is "not good", really... maybe 24 bit is a good compromise
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| 22:26 | <alkisg> markit: what do you mean "not good"?
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| 22:27 | And, there's no 24 bit, it's 32 bit
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| 22:27 | So it's double the bandwidth
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| 22:27 | 24 bpp is very rare
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| 22:33 | <markit> I've set
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| 22:34 | X_COLOR_DEPTH = 24
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| 22:34 | that is good for fat and thin, hoping to save bandwidth
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| 22:34 | alkisg: I mean that you have fake colors
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| 22:34 | a black border around dialog windows
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| 22:34 | gradient very ugly
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| 22:34 | etc.
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| 22:34 | <alkisg> markit: disable shadows etc in your KDE
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| 22:35 | And file bug reports for any problems that you see
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| 22:35 | <markit> kde has a thousand effects :)
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| 22:35 | <alkisg> 65000 colors are good enough for gradients, if KDE can't use them then it's a problem
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| 22:35 | <markit> yep, is what I thought
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| 22:35 | btw, do you have kde too and can test (not right now, I mean when you have spare time)?
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| 22:36 | <alkisg> I have KDE in my daughter's laptop, but nah, I won't be testing LTSP with KDE, no time to test other DEs
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| 23:42 | <markit> alkisg: luckly found some dev that gave me some attention... their themes are designed for 32 bit. You can find a theme that works good with 16 (like, urgh, M$Win-like one)
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| 23:42 | or find someone that can produce a nice 16 bit one
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| 23:42 | that's their tips
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| 23:43 | <alkisg> markit: I don't believe that there's noticable difference between 16bpp and 32bpp
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| 23:43 | <markit> if you know a greek student with artistic talent and good skill...
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| 23:43 | <alkisg> The problem is in software, broken rendering
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| 23:43 | E.g. shadows aren't a matter of art
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| 23:43 | <markit> [01:03] <Sho_> no, if you can't do 8bit per channel your system is broken
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| 23:43 | [01:03] <Sho_> again, it's not a use case we care about
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| 23:44 | [01:03] <Sho_> and 65k colors aren't good enough if your colorscheme is monochromatic and does things like radial and vertical gradients in the window bg, there's just not enough hues in 16bit to make that pretty
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| 23:44 | <alkisg> Right, they don't care, not that our system is broken
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| 23:44 | Really? Try it in gimp
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| 23:44 | Open gimp and do a gradient
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| 23:44 | Shows up fine
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| 23:44 | Or open a photo in 16bpp
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| 23:44 | The problem is in their graphics libraries, they're broken
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| 23:44 | <markit> I trust you, but can't argue against them, I've always found kde dev very unfriendly
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| 23:45 | [01:39] <tsdgeos> since this is a -devel channel
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| 23:45 | [01:39] <tsdgeos> what are *you* doing to fix it?
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| 23:45 | end of discussion :)
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| 23:46 | I'll report a bug, end of the story
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| 23:46 | and use 24 bit
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| 23:46 | <alkisg> Just tell them that gnome shows up fine in 16bpp
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| 23:46 | For years now. I hope that doesn't break with unity...
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| 23:47 | <markit> or CleanLooks style, is not that bad indeed
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| 23:47 | I've told them, lol
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| 23:48 | so homework for tomorrow: find the package that has cleanlook, make sure my scripts install it, and find a way to set it globally, at least for thin clients
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| 23:48 | (so makes even easier know if the pc is thin or fat)
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| 23:49 | thanks a lot, good night :)
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| 23:49 | <alkisg> Good night markit
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| 23:49 | <markit> ah, if you are curious: http://www.wstaw.org/w/12J3/
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| 23:49 | (vertical scroll bar is bad, strange colors around current icon, etc)
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| 23:50 | <alkisg> Yes, broken libraries
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| 23:50 | <markit> :)
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| 23:50 | <alkisg> Even the horizontal large lines are a broken vertical gradient
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| 23:50 | <markit> yep, and if you play a little a lot of visual stuff becomes broken
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| 23:51 | so maybe is not "only visual"
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| 23:51 | the only true thing is
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| 23:51 | <markit> that kde has very limited resources
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| 23:51 | so they have to focus in the more important
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| 23:51 | and few people is 16bit
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| 23:51 | so can't blame them too much
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| 23:52 | 'nite
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| 23:52 | <alkisg> If it's Qt to blame, then Qt should have plenty of market with 64k, with mobile devices etc
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