IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 1 February 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:24 | <Q-FUNK> am I the only one for whom the server fails on ubuntu/precise?
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| 07:10 | <laurei> I have fat clients, just wanting users to view files in other users /home directories (if they have permissions), but directory doesnt seem to exist if I try to cd. Is there a file that handles the mounting of home directory, because it doesn't seem to be in fstab
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| 07:13 | I can see the /home mounted in mtab, but its obviously on a /home/usename level, not on the /home level
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| 07:38 | <laurei> Hi, alkisg :) is there anyway with a fat client, I can get sshfs to connect to the /home directory on the server instead of the /home/user, to enable filesharing (if permissions allow)
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| 07:38 | <alkisg> laurei: the easiest way would be to use NFS and NFS_HOME=/home
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| 07:38 | Otherwise you may be able to do it with localapps_extra_mounts
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| 07:39 | I'd share a symlink to /home instead of /home instead, though, to prevent overlapping
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| 07:41 | You could also just set SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS=True, and have symlinks from /home/username/home to /home
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| 07:42 | <laurei> yeah a symlink being followed would be sweet, it was what i just expected to happen when I created one, and it said it didntt exist
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| 07:42 | so its just a switch in some file then?
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| 07:43 | <alkisg> Yes, man lts.conf and check the SSH_FOLLOW_SYMLINKS paragraph
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| 07:43 | !lts.conf
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| 07:43 | <ltsp> alkisg: lts.conf: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> (although the manual lies, it's false by default for links under $HOME)
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| 07:44 | So just set it to True
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| 07:44 | <laurei> looks great, i just checked the file, i can just use it in /var/lib/tftboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf and don't have to update-image right?
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| 07:44 | <alkisg> Right
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| 07:46 | <laurei> I'm excited, thanks:) I thought everything but /home was sent as a squashed image so was checking the chroot
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| 07:47 | <alkisg> lts.conf is fetched via tftp, so that ltsp-update-image isn't needed on every lts.conf change
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| 07:49 | <laurei> I see
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| 07:53 | alkisg: if the lts.conf is missing, is that meaning I should create it?
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| 07:56 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 08:00 | <laurei> thank you so much
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| 08:19 | * alkisg uploaded the new 0.4.1 epoptes version, with stability improvements, and the new ability to broadcast your screen in a window | |
| 08:21 | <muppis> :D
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| 08:22 | * muppis is feeling lazy. | |
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| 13:52 | <mgariepy> any of you ever had issue with monitor that goes to sleep on certain boot and works correctly on others?
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| 14:40 | <||cw> mgariepy: I can't seem to get any to not sleep period
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| 14:47 | anyone used one of these thin clients before? http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859325005
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| 15:09 | hm, seems it's a proprietary protocol
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| 17:35 | <_UsUrPeR_> hey all
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| 17:35 | I have a question about the LTSP boot process
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| 17:36 | after the client boots via DHCP the first time, and the message "trying to load: pxelinux.cfg/default" there's a line that says "boot:"
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| 17:36 | what is happening during the "boot:" step?
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| 17:36 | and why would a single client, out of 11 that I am testing, not be able to get past that point?
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> _UsUrPeR_: that's a pxelinux question, best asked in #syslinux
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| 17:36 | <_UsUrPeR_> fair enough
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| 17:36 | <alkisg> It's probably a problem with the keyboard, and syslinux thinks "Esc" is pressed
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| 17:37 | Try switching from ps/2 to usb keyboard or vice versa
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| 17:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> hahaha
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| 17:37 | good show. The crtl key was being depressed by another keyboard on top
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| 17:37 | <alkisg> Hehe :)
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| 17:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, thanks
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> komunista: were you asking about epoptes translations? Slovak has 18 untranslated messages...
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| 19:55 | <komunista> alkisg: yes
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| 19:55 | I ask, if there was some as call for translation
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| 19:55 | <alkisg> Yes, until yesterday :)
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| 19:56 | We released the new version today
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| 19:56 | <komunista> :-)
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| 19:56 | <alkisg> But no worries we'll have other releases soon
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| 19:56 | <komunista> hmm, but in last day it stops to work for me under Squeeze
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| 19:57 | no error messages in log, all seems to work, only no clients in epoptes window
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| 19:57 | <alkisg> Did you upgrade from epoptes 0.3.x to 0.4.0 ?
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| 19:57 | If so, you need to update your certificate, see the news in epoptes.org
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| 19:57 | I.e. `epoptes-client -c ` in the chroot, + ltsp-update-image
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| 19:58 | *err no update-image necessary in debian :)
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| 19:58 | <komunista> I have no epoptes-client in chroot
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> You need that, see www.epoptes.org/installation
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| 19:58 | <komunista> it is mandatory?
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 19:58 | To be able to control the clients before login
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| 19:58 | And for broadcast to work
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| 19:59 | <komunista> yes I read this, but it seems only for power on/shotdown clients
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> Otherwise you can still see the clients but only after login
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| 19:59 | No it's for broadcasting too
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| 19:59 | <komunista> for me is enough to see clients after login :-)
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| 19:59 | <alkisg> To broadcast the "teacher" screen
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| 19:59 | OK then
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| 19:59 | <komunista> but I see nothing :-(
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| 20:00 | in log I see that client was connected, but nothing happens
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| 20:00 | <alkisg> Do you have access to your server to run some commands?
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| 20:00 | <komunista> yes
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| 20:01 | <alkisg> dpkg-query -W epoptes epoptes-client
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| 20:01 | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 dpkg-query -W epoptes-client
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| 20:01 | *su, in your case :)
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| 20:02 | openssl x509 -text -in /etc/epoptes/server.crt | grep 'Not After'
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| 20:02 | Those 3 commands... what's their output?
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| 20:02 | <komunista> openssl under chroot?
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| 20:02 | <alkisg> No, on the server
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| 20:03 | <komunista> openssl x509 -text -in /etc/epoptes/server.crt | grep 'Not After'
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| 20:03 | Not After : Jan 31 20:01:18 2017 GMT
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| 20:03 | <alkisg> ...and in the chroot too, yeah
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| 20:03 | :)
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| 20:04 | <komunista> I have no openssl under chroot
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| 20:04 | <alkisg> What's the output of the dpkg-query commands?
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| 20:04 | <komunista> dpkg-query -W epoptes epoptes-client
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| 20:04 | epoptes 0.4.1~lucid1
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| 20:04 | epoptes-client 0.4.1~lucid1
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| 20:04 | on server
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| 20:05 | dpkg-query -W epoptes-client
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| 20:05 | epoptes-client
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| 20:05 | under chroot
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| 20:05 | <alkisg> Ah you have the new version
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| 20:05 | Did you reboot the clients after you updated epoptes on the server today?
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| 20:05 | There's no "reconnect" feature... :)
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| 20:06 | <komunista> I updated it, but it doesn't work with 4.0 too
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| 20:06 | <alkisg> (if the connection is lost on ltsp, the client dies, so we thought we'd save some ram)
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| 20:06 | Can you try this command from a thin client?
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| 20:06 | epoptes-client
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| 20:06 | Run it from a terminal, and check its output
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| 20:07 | (normal gnome-terminal inside the X session)
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| 20:07 | <komunista> I am sorry, no thin clients now, here is night and I connect to server from home only
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| 20:08 | <alkisg> Do you have any thin clients powered on?
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| 20:08 | (remotely, the ones that you can't see from epoptes)
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| 20:09 | <komunista> I was debug this in last week and there was socat (with epoptes-client) processes for all clients running
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| 20:10 | no, I have no running client now, it secondary (if I proper in english) school :-)
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> OK, check the new 0.4.1 version tomorrow, it should be running fine. If not, ping me when you have a break, so that I help you debug it. :)
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| 20:11 | <komunista> OK, thanks :-)
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| 20:50 | <ba> hi! is it somehow possible to stream WIndows XP through NBD-Server and LTSP?
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| 20:54 | <||cw> ba: not unless you can convince the XP kernel to use NBD as a storage controller
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| 20:55 | maybe it's been done. I don't know.
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| 20:56 | <alkisg> You can send an XP virtual machine to be executed with e.g. vbox
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| 20:56 | So that the clients only see Windows, no linux whatsoever
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| 20:59 | <||cw> iscsi might be a better option for windows. I think certain PCIe intel nic support iscsi booting from a network LUN
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| 20:59 | for iscsi server, I'd recommend scst
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| 21:00 | I think I've seen some gpxe hacks for iscsi as well
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| 21:02 | <alkisg> iscsi enables windows to boot over lan, but it doesn't help in booting them over different hardware
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| 21:02 | So ba would need a different iscsi image for each client
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| 21:02 | While with a VM, you can have a single VM for all clients
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| 21:02 | Without caring about their actual hardware, drivers etc
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| 21:04 | <||cw> and clone it out, yes.
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| 21:04 | though you do take a serious performance hit if you need autocad or any adobe stuff
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| 21:04 | <alkisg> No need for cloning, a single VM can boot any number of clients
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| 21:05 | And with the 3d accelleration it shouldn't suffer much
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| 21:05 | <||cw> vbox doens't have a windows 3d drivers
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| 21:05 | and, vm images are disk images, you need one for each client. you can use linked clones though
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| 21:06 | though i don't know to do that with vbox. it's how xendesktop and vmware's VDI work
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| 21:06 | personally, I'd just run a vm and use rdesktop to get at it
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| 21:06 | <alkisg> The base vm image can be read only if you have rw snapshots on top of it
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| 21:06 | <||cw> yeah, tha's linked clones
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| 21:07 | <alkisg> No, linked clones is functionality offered by vbox
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| 21:07 | <||cw> you have a snapshot for each cllient
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| 21:07 | <alkisg> The other one is playing tricks with the file system :)
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| 21:07 | I was preparing an LTSP screen script for that
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| 21:07 | Yes, a snapshot for each client, generated dynamically on boot
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| 21:07 | <||cw> for local vbox launching a windows vm?
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| 21:07 | sounds pretty cool
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| 21:08 | <alkisg> So that if the sysadmin installs a program in the main VM, the clients get it on the next boot
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| 21:08 | Yes, exactly
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| 21:08 | Vbox has experimental 3d support, I've never actually tried it, and vmware says it has good 3d support
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| 21:08 | <||cw> vmware's seems stable, it's weak though
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| 21:09 | <alkisg> Vbox also has pci passthrough
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| 21:09 | <||cw> I haven't tried it on View or WS 8 yet though
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| 21:09 | <alkisg> So I imagine one could install the drivers for his actual card
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| 21:09 | <||cw> need to put a real vid card in my workstation
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| 21:09 | <ba> but how? I mean..how would you streamt he VBox image?
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| 21:09 | <||cw> yeah, you need 2 cards to passthrough one
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| 21:10 | <alkisg> ba: with any file system offered by linux... nbd, nfs, sshfs, whatever
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| 21:10 | <ba> alkisg, so I would first, install VBOx on a server. Install VM's there. Install LTSP right? Then...I can't imagine what.
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| 21:11 | alkisg, I mean..how to tell VBox to use remote display and remote devices (like mouse, keyboard at least)
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| 21:11 | <||cw> heh
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| 21:11 | <alkisg> Those will be local, not remote
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| 21:11 | The client will boot a bit of linux, sent by ltsp
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| 21:11 | <||cw> ba: have you not setup a thin client yet? and tried adding apps to the thin image?
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| 21:11 | <alkisg> Then it will load the windows vm
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| 21:12 | And the VM will run locally, like running virtualbox fullscreen under your local os, windows, etc
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| 21:13 | <ba> ||cw I did many things with LTSP
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| 21:14 | alkisg, that's right. The most important question is..what's that "a bit of LInux"
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| 21:14 | alkisg, I mean..it whould have something like a VirtualBox client?
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| 21:14 | <alkisg> That's an ltsp thin client with vbox as a localapp
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| 21:14 | <||cw> ba: I think you install vbox in the client image
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| 21:14 | <ba> alkisg, ah sshii.. :)) Got it.
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| 21:14 | <||cw> then make a screen script, like the rdesktop one, that launches the vm
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| 21:15 | still requires a beefy client, but you can remove the HDD
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| 21:15 | <ba> yes. the client must be powerful.
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| 21:16 | I have only 500Mhz with 1Gb of RAM
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| 21:16 | <||cw> eyah that aint gonna cut it. rdesktop would be faster than native anyway
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| 21:17 | I had XP on a via 500, made it ltsp and rdp to a vm, it's faster
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| 21:17 | <ba> ||cw, I am having issues with rdesktop and even latest freerdp. A quite jerky scrolling in browsers..not to tell about Flash
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| 21:17 | <||cw> scrolling is fine for me. what video card?
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| 21:18 | <ba> Chrome9 HC3
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| 21:18 | <||cw> crappy xorg driver for rage and i810 is the cause of most of the web page issues I've seen here
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| 21:18 | <ba> ||cw, using the most recent stable version of video driver. This thing is just killing me :(
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| 21:18 | <||cw> my via's are unichrome pro II
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| 21:19 | I have one with a 1Ghz 586 clone that's got a XGI Z9s that works well too
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| 21:20 | these 2 are most of what I use, besides some SFF p4's http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=detail&prod_num=1EBX33A&aisle_id=1070 http://www.wdlsystems.com/modperl/view_services.cgi?r=detail&prod_num=1EBX43K&aisle_id=1043
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| 21:20 | the 3300 requires injecting a nic driver into the thin image
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| 21:20 | <alkisg> ba, if you only have 1 client, and it's such a low-end one, you'll get better performance with AoE or iSCSI
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| 21:21 | <||cw> which is a pain, since the kernel proper has the driver, and just ubuntu doesn't compile it
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| 21:22 | <ba> ||cw, that's mine http://www.google.kg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=Futro+s+100+ethernet+Engadget&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2F2009%2F07%2F18%2Ffujitsus-sleek-futro-s100-gets-via-eden-implant%2F&ei=Aq0pT4WCCYft-gbcmtmVBQ&usg=AFQjCNGchHizlk1u2Q6i_IihONvEhLywrw
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| 21:22 | oops
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| 21:22 | ||cw, http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/18/fujitsus-sleek-futro-s100-gets-via-eden-implant/
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| 21:22 | alkisg, currently I am using Citrix Provisioning Services and it's working fine though yet.
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| 21:23 | <alkisg> So you can see fullscreen video without problems?
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| 21:23 | <ba> ||cw, can you llok at private dialog
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| 21:23 | alkisg, yes it's DirectX 9 capable and it can play fullscreen video files
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| 21:24 | <alkisg> Ah, it executes the applications locally? I thought citrix provided remote-desktop-based solutions...
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| 21:25 | <ba> alkisg, they provide remote desktop solutions of course. PVS is just another way to solve the problems
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| 21:25 | alkisg, With their XenDesktop I am having another problems so I decided to go in another way...
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| 21:26 | <ba> alkisg, I have created a simple chroot with ICA client installed and it was able to boot remote desktops. It could play fullscreen videos also with HD audio
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| 21:26 | alkisg, just had big problems with USB redirection and instability of all this stuff.
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| 21:27 | <alkisg> I see... I wonder how they can stream videos to such low-end clients... I suppose one server should be able to serve many clients in parallel, so live video compression wouldn't be an option...
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| 21:28 | <ba> alkisg, why not? they do decoding on the client side I guess
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| 21:29 | alkisg, it's just their excelltn ICA protocol which is really the best
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| 21:29 | <alkisg> Suppose I have a screensaver, 1024x768, 24bpp, 30 fps
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| 21:30 | To compress that, stream it, so that the client can decode it, that would require e.g. a whole core on a modern system (probably more)
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| 21:30 | So I don't know how many clients could be served by a single server
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| 21:31 | I've heard people saying how good ica is, but I don't believe it until i see it with my own eyes
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| 21:31 | <ba> alkisg, go ahead and test :)
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| 21:31 | <alkisg> On the other hand, if a video is played with a video player, they may have appropriate hooks to get the video before it's decoded at all, and stream it without wasting cpu
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| 21:32 | <ba> alkisg, I am telling you that Futro S100 thin client can do HD video with ICA fullscreen (720p)
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| 21:32 | alkisg, dont' foget about GPU on the client end
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| 21:32 | alkisg, it's DirectX 9 capable
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| 21:32 | <alkisg> Decoding is fast, I don't even think about it
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| 21:32 | Encoding is very slow, that's what gets me worried
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| 21:33 | Apart from video hooks, I can't see how they'd be able to compress videos for dozens of clients, realtime
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| 21:34 | <ba> alkisg, the server surely must be powerful
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| 21:34 | alkisg, but we don't have a powerful GPU though
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| 21:34 | alkisg, a huge amount of RAM and powerful 24 core CPU (Xen)
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| 21:35 | alkisg, (Xeon)
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| 21:36 | <ba> alkisg, but I am having a lot of problems with Citrix. It's either because I was not ready to work with this beast or it's just overly complicated shit.
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| 21:37 | <||cw> Citrix overly complicated?! no!
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| 21:37 | <alkisg> I also wonder how much more powerful your server is compared to e.g. my core 2 duo laptop @ 2.2 GHz. 10 times faster? So if my laptop can encode 1 video realtime, your server could do 10? Not bad, it could serve many clients then...
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| 21:39 | <ba> alkisg, their estimate is about 3 VM's per core
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| 21:40 | alkisg, your machine could, in theory, serve 6 desktop machines
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> With LTSP I can serve about 10 thin clients or 20 fat clients
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| 21:40 | <ba> alkisg, your clients are using Linux desktop?
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| 21:40 | <alkisg> Yeah
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| 21:41 | But of course thin clients can't see fullscreen youtube videos. Fat clients can.
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| 21:41 | <ba> alkisg, your users don't use MS Office and other WIn programs?
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| 21:42 | <alkisg> We switched about 250 schools to linux, so they mostly don't use ms programs anymore
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| 21:42 | They do have a few programs that we run under wine
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| 21:42 | <ba> alkisg, great! my environment is not that easy.
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| 21:42 | * ba sigh | |
| 21:45 | <alkisg> 'night all. vagrantc: if you have some free time to upload epoptes, I'll buy you a beer at the next BTS :)
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