IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
| 00:03 | <SSlater> G'day. Got a question about NICs for old hardware. Anyone able to help?
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| 00:08 | <twb> Personally, I *VASTLY* prefer the two-pane approach of a separate editor and preview, to WYSIWG.
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| 00:09 | For example, Emacs and xdvi or an HTML viewer. Particularly this is useful if the preview tool can use inotify to automatically refresh when the rendered file changes.
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| 00:10 | <sbalneav> SSlater: Don't ask to ask, just ask :)
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| 00:10 | What's the question?
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| 00:11 | <SSlater> I have a bunch of old PIIs and a new Dell server.
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| 00:12 | I would like to get a small ltsp setup running.
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| 00:12 | most don:t have nic:s, and the rest don:t have 2 the same.
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| 00:12 | <rjune__> !S
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| 00:12 | <ltspbot`> rjune__: "S" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 00:13 | <rjune__> SSlater: you have to have a nic
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| 00:13 | intel eepro nics work well
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| 00:13 | <SSlater> I:ll be using fedora 10 (when I set it up)
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| 00:14 | <johnny> p2 might be underpowered for such a setup
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| 00:14 | <SSlater> These intels will boot from the server fine?
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| 00:14 | <johnny> all nics will
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| 00:14 | <rjune__> intell eePro will PXE boot
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| 00:14 | johnny: not out of the box
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| 00:14 | <sbalneav> Any nic that supports PXE booting will work "out of the box"
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| 00:14 | <johnny> oh.. vs using a floppy on the side :)
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| 00:14 | <alkisg> SSlater, how much RAM do the P2's have?
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| 00:15 | <johnny> and cpu too..
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| 00:15 | <SSlater> There won:t be much graphical stuff. So I hope the PII will work. At least till I get familiar with things ltsp.
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| 00:15 | <sbalneav> Any nic that DOESN'T have a pxe boot rom can use something like gPXE
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| 00:15 | <rjune__> sbalneav: true dat
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| 00:16 | <sbalneav> PII should be fine even for graphics, so long as it has at least 128 megs of memory.
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| 00:16 | <SSlater> The ram varies. But not much by todays standards.
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| 00:17 | <twb> I have used PIIIs for normal (i.e. not thin) workstations before with absolutely no problems
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| 00:17 | Of course, I don't run bloated junk like VMware, Firefox and OpenOffice...
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| 00:17 | <SSlater> I have enough lying around to get them to 128
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| 00:17 | Or can get more.
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| 00:18 | <sbalneav> I've still got a bunch of offices running 550 mhz via's with 128 megs of ram, and they work fine.
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| 00:18 | <twb> SSlater: you might find it hard to get new RAM compatible with kit that old :-)
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| 00:18 | <SSlater> I:m still reading up on PXE booting.
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| 00:19 | There are some recycling places nearby where I can get it.
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| 00:19 | <rjune__> yeah, 128MB ram would be good
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| 00:19 | sbalneav: how's life?
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| 00:20 | <alkisg> SSlater: for starters, you may download the gpxe:all-drivers disk from http://rom-o-matic.net/gpxe/gpxe-git/gpxe.git/contrib/rom-o-matic/
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| 00:20 | You don't need anything else (other that a nic...) client-side.
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| 00:20 | <sbalneav> rjune__: Busy, but manageable.
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| 00:23 | <SSlater> If I can I want to get the bits I need, like nics, before Christmas, when things close down.
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| 00:23 | Ill work on the setup while the cricket is on.
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| 00:23 | <rjune__> sbalneav: interviewed with canonical today
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| 00:25 | <sbalneav> Yeah?
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| 00:25 | <rjune__> went well
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| 00:26 | <twb> gpxe is super nice
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| 00:26 | But I'd use the CDROM or USB version if you can, rather than a floppy version
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| 00:27 | Just because I hate floppies :-)
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| 00:27 | <johnny> twb, but that's why i use floppies
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| 00:27 | because my users like cds and usb :)
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| 00:27 | they never need to use the floppy
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| 00:28 | so i just tape up the floppy drive on the last machine of mine that can't pxe boot
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| 00:29 | <SSlater> So the gPXE .iso image goes on a (excuse me) floppy or whatever, then boot the client that has a nic matching those on the rom-O-matic site?
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| 00:29 | <twb> Well, of course, the machines I used these days have neither floppy nor optical drives
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| 00:29 | Because moving parts are suck!
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| 00:29 | <SSlater> Some of these cold be put in a museum.
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| 00:30 | <sbalneav> SSlater: But remember: if the card has pxe on board, you won't need gPXE
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| 00:31 | <SSlater> Yeah, gpxe is if the existing nics can be matched to that site.
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| 01:31 | <alkisg> While installing from the Ubuntu alternate CD, if the server is AMD64, what chroot is generated? For i386 or for AMD64?
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| 02:02 | <generalsnus> What is the best disk cloning tool, i can use for linux? i have a HD here, id like to clone. ive tried ghost, but it wont find my external hd, so i can save a image
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| 02:06 | <cyberorg> generalsnus, dd
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| 02:30 | <johnny> generalsnus, if they are the exact same size. it is as simple as dd if=/dev/yoursource of=/dev/yourtarget
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| 02:31 | if they aren't the same size, then rsync is probably best
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| 03:58 | <EXP2> | |
| 04:02 | <sep> why not save you the hassle and use a network webcam ?
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| 04:04 | EXP2, if it's skype or similar you realy want i would not think it's run well on ltsp. perhaps localapp would be a better solution there
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| 04:06 | <EXP2> any suggestions for network webcam?
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| 04:10 | and other thing. Is it possible to deny multiple logins from clients?
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| 04:14 | <rjune__> limits.conf might help you out there
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| 06:22 | <tsurc_> Hi, Ive got 1462 I'm trying to add to the fuse group, when I update nis to recreate the maps its telling me the list is too long. Any ideas?
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| 06:22 | 1462 users*
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| 06:24 | <laga> i don't think ltsp 5 uses NIS
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| 06:26 | <tsurc_> because I have multiple ltsp servers I use NIS and NFS to authenticate and mount home directories
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| 07:41 | <jammcq> bom dia #ltsp
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| 07:42 | <ogra> bongiorno
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| 08:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> Ohayou gozaimasu, #ltsp
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| 08:12 | <nubae> Goeien Dag, ltspers
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| 08:18 | <alkisg> ΚαλησπÎρα, #ltsp
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| 08:18 | <laga> annyong haseo
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| 08:18 | (i haven't set up skim yet)
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| 08:18 | <ogra> vagrantc, !
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| 08:19 | <vagrantc> ogra: greetings!
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| 08:19 | <ogra> vagrantc, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-November/000514.html :)
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| 08:20 | <vagrantc> cool
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| 08:20 | <ogra> yeah :)
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| 08:20 | so you will always have a branch for the ltsp packaging to compare to
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| 08:21 | * ogra glares at rpm ... | |
| 08:21 | <ogra> hmm, the rpm5 seems to build fine ...
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| 08:22 | warren_, is FC using rpm v4 or rpm v5 ?
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| 08:22 | * ogra isnt sure why debian and ubuntu still have v4 | |
| 08:27 | <rjune> ogra: almost certainly fc10 has rpmv5
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| 08:27 | lemme check
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| 08:29 | <ogra> hrm, but its not offering an rpmbuild binary
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| 08:31 | <rjune> rpm-4.6.0-0.rc1.7.i386.rpm
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| 08:31 | looks like that's what's in f10
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| 08:31 | <ogra> 4.6 ??
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| 08:32 | <rjune> http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/releases/10/Fedora/i386/os/Packages/rpm-4.6.0-0.rc1.7.i386.rpm
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| 08:32 | strikes me as odd too
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| 08:32 | I don't think they would update after the fact.
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| 08:33 | <ogra> upstream i 4.4
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| 08:33 | *is
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| 08:33 | or 5.1 ... depending which upstream you tae
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| 08:34 | * ogra has a cat oon the lap ... hard to type | |
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| 08:34 | <rjune> cats keep the lap warm
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| 08:35 | <laga> i'm jealous
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| 08:35 | <rjune> ogra: you get the message last night ?
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| 08:35 | <ogra> went well ?
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| 08:36 | <rjune> yup
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| 08:36 | <ogra> cool
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| 08:36 | * cliebow ogra richly deserves cat on lap ;-] | |
| 08:36 | <rjune> not a great fit for arm, but might be another slot
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| 08:36 | <ogra> curious what he will tell :)
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| 08:36 | <rjune> he said he would talk me up at UDS
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| 08:36 | <ogra> you come ?
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| 08:37 | <rjune> no.
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| 08:37 | to the other team leads
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| 08:37 | <ogra> ah
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| 08:38 | <rjune> and iffn the other slot opens up, it'll be talk to the team time
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| 08:38 | <ogra> soubds good
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| 08:38 | train your dpkg skills ;)
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| 08:39 | <rjune> yupper
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| 08:39 | did some reading on arm too
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| 08:39 | <ogra> #ubuntu-motu might be helpful
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| 08:40 | (and #ubuntu-arm if you aim for arm)
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| 08:40 | <rjune> motu?
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| 08:41 | <ogra> masters of the universe ;)
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| 08:41 | <ogra> universe: the community maintained set of packages
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| 08:44 | <ogra> oh, /me sees a 4.6.0-rc2 on rpm.org
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| 08:48 | <cyberorg> ogra, ubuntu moving to rpm? :)
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| 08:49 | <rjune> it's required for LFS support.
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| 08:49 | <ogra> cyberorg, rpm was in ubuntu forever
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| 08:49 | <pmatulis> any comments on running ltsp virtually?
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| 08:51 | <cyberorg> ogra, ah, didn't know that, we are still on 4.4.2.3, although it is "highly improved" rpm with lzma compressed payload
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| 08:51 | <rjune> should work fine.
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| 08:51 | <ogra> rjune, lets see, there are lots of debian patches i'll have to sort
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| 08:52 | <rjune> sort for which?
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| 08:53 | <ogra> look at the package :P
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| 08:54 | 01-lsb-rpm.1.diff 13-rpm2cpio-help.diff 15-disable-rpmdiff.cgi.diff 17-dont-be-redhat.diff 19-misc.diff 21-kfreebsd.diff series
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| 08:54 | 09-prereq.diff 14-work-on-debian64.diff 16-debian-warn.diff 18-tempfile.diff 20-no-linux-gate.so-dependancy.diff 22-ubuntu-spelling-fixes.diff
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| 08:55 | <Blinny> Fun
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| 08:55 | <rjune> jeebus
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| 08:55 | ok for the rpm pkg
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| 08:56 | <rjune> 17-dont-be-redhat.diff <-- nice
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| 08:58 | <rjune> cyberorg: sorry, rpm is required for lsb support, I was thinking the Filesystem Heirarchy Standard
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| 08:58 | <vagrantc> pmatulis: i use virtualbox for most of my ltsp development
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| 08:58 | <cyberorg> rjune, yes
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| 08:59 | <vagrantc> pmatulis: i've also used qemu sometimes
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| 08:59 | <pmatulis> vagrantc, no issues? i'm thinking of using kvm
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| 09:00 | <vagrantc> pmatulis: haven't tried it, but i believe others have.
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| 09:00 | there isn't a whole lot that modern virtualizers do that would really interfere with LTSP.
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| 09:00 | oh, i've also used XEN with ltsp a lot :)
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| 09:01 | <pmatulis> nice, sounds like you've got a lot of experience
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| 09:02 | <Appiah> I use Virtualbox or Vmware ESX
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| 09:02 | works fine
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| 09:02 | <pmatulis> ltsp-specific benefits of running virtually?
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| 09:03 | <vagrantc> nothing specific to ltsp
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| 09:04 | cyberorg: replied to your ltspfs woes on ltsp-developer
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| 09:04 | cyberorg: seems odd that it would have broken, but who knows...
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| 09:04 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, ah checking, thanks
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| 09:06 | <ogra> smells like a udev discrepancy
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| 09:06 | <ogra> though that would be surprising with udev upstream working for novell
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| 09:07 | <vagrantc> well, the testing was done primarily on Debian, i think :)
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| 09:07 | which i hear deviates a good deal from udev upstream...
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| 09:07 | <ogra> i thought Gadi did test as wel
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| 09:07 | l
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| 09:08 | <vagrantc> ah, i suppose so.
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| 09:08 | <ogra> that should be ubuntu whih is nearly plain upstream
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| 09:08 | <vagrantc> i don't think i actually tested usb sticks ... since i have to boot a real thin client to bother with that
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| 09:08 | although i might have tested with qemu ...
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| 09:09 | <rjune> ogra: in motu, is skeletor taken?
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| 09:09 | <CAN-o-SPAM> who moderates the ltsp-discuss mailing list?
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| 09:09 | <ogra> rjune, by what ?
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| 09:09 | CAN-o-SPAM, jammcq
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| 09:09 | <rjune> ogra: you ever see he-man and the masters of the universe?
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| 09:09 | <ogra> rjune, well, yes :)
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| 09:10 | he i the guy scattering bugs all over the universe ;)
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| 09:12 | <rjune> Uhm, not exactly. not unless the german version differs substantially from the US one
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| 09:12 | skeletor is the main bad guy.
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| 09:12 | <Q-FUNK> spammers of the universe?
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| 09:12 | <rjune> had a skull for a face
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| 09:12 | rjune is now known as he-man | |
| 09:12 | he-man is now known as man-at-arms | |
| 09:13 | <man-at-arms> hah
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| 09:13 | <ogra> rjune, right, i was adapting that to ubuntu-motu :)
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| 09:13 | <man-at-arms> I should get bonus points for a double pun
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| 09:13 | man-at-arms is now known as Man-at-ARMs | |
| 09:13 | <Man-at-ARMs> ba dum psh
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| 09:13 | <ogra> hah
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| 09:21 | <Man-at-ARMs> !g
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| 09:21 | <ltspbot`> Man-at-ARMs: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 09:22 | <Q-FUNK> Gadi :)
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| 09:22 | <Gadi> Man-at-ARMs: you must be rjune in disguise
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| 09:23 | * Gadi waves to the channe; | |
| 09:23 | <Gadi> *l
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| 09:24 | <Guevara> hi people
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| 09:24 | * Q-FUNK channel.WAV back | |
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| 09:26 | <Guevara> How to umount the device in ltsp usb 5.0 in ubuntu can only mount and umount not work, send an error message saying that the device is not in fstab and I am not root
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| 09:27 | <Man-at-ARMs> Gadi: I am. I'm making a pun
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> punny
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| 09:27 | really
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| 09:27 | very
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| 09:27 | <Guevara> hey
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| 09:28 | <Gadi> Guevara: if it is plugged into the client, just pull it out
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| 09:28 | ltspfs keeps it unmounted when not writing to it
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| 09:28 | <Guevara> really???????
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| 09:29 | but remove the device will not spoil?
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| 09:29 | <Gadi> as long as the lights not blinking
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| 09:29 | :)
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| 09:29 | <Guevara> very goog Gadi
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| 09:29 | :)
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| 09:30 | <Man-at-ARMs> ogra: is there an ARM emulator that will run what you have currently?
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| 09:31 | <Guevara> Gadi: I want the computer just use the disk to the boot and then the desktop icon it short, I have to do this?
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| 09:31 | Gadi: edit the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/udev/rules.d/15-ltsp-block.rules file and comment out this line in the Legacy Floppy section: KERNEL=="fd[0-9]*", RUN+="/etc/udev/scripts/ltsp-device.sh"
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| 09:31 | is this?
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| 09:31 | <ogra> Man-at-ARMs, qemu but there s no kernel for that
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| 09:32 | <Man-at-ARMs> so right now arm work must be done on arm hardware?
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| 09:32 | Man-at-ARMs is now known as rjune | |
| 09:32 | <Gadi> Guevara: sounds about right - what distro?
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| 09:32 | <Guevara> ubuntu 8.04.1
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| 09:33 | I want computer did not show the floppy disk icon on the desktop after boot
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> if you comment out that line and then run sudo ltsp-update-image, you will no longer have floppy as a local device
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| 09:34 | <Guevara> but the boot continue works right?
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> sure
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| 09:35 | <Guevara> OK, very good Gadi
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| 09:35 | <Guevara> Gadi: I can rest with the umount in usb? It will not burn your device?
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| 09:36 | my device*
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| 09:37 | <Guevara> Gadi: I can determine a LOCAL_STORAGE = Y in your lts.conf file ?
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| 09:37 | in my device*
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| 09:38 | because the usb is mounted in /media/student
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| 09:38 | <Guevara> ltsp automatically mount in /media
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| 09:39 | Gadi: thanks for your help
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| 09:39 | bye
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| 09:39 | <Q-FUNK> there goes le Che
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| 09:42 | <Gadi> wow - I turn away for a second, and I miss a whole conversation I don't quite understand
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| 09:42 | <Q-FUNK> hehe
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| 09:44 | <sbalneav> morning all
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| 09:46 | <Q-FUNK> 'evening
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| 09:46 | <_UsUrPeR_> Ok, say I want to limit ltsp_localapps programs that are able to run on the client.
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| 09:47 | and I want to create seperate ltsp-localapps commands. I.E. ltsp-xterm (entering the command ltsp-xterm opens an xterm window)
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| 09:50 | <sbalneav> _UsUrPeR_: limit them how?
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| 09:50 | <_UsUrPeR_> gimme a second and I'll post some code
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| 09:51 | <vagrantc> _UsUrPeR_: read the ltsp-localapps command ... it's pretty much a one-liner
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| 09:56 | <_UsUrPeR_> vagrantc: so say I want a seperate ltsp-localapps command and a seperate ltsp-localappsd...
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| 09:57 | <vagrantc> _UsUrPeR_: i can understand the ltsp-localapps command, but why ltsp-localappsd ?
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| 09:59 | <ogra> because is has a d in the name :)
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| 09:59 | <_UsUrPeR_> which runs just one program. I have found that replacing the line LTSP_COMMAND= line in ltsp-localappsd to limit what argument can be entered. It I change that line to "LTSP_COMMAND=xterm" it will run xterm when I run "ltsp-localapps"
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| 10:00 | <cyberorg> _UsUrPeR_, you can do almost same if you mv ltsp-localapps ltsp
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| 10:00 | ltsp xterm will start xterm
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| 10:00 | <vagrantc> _UsUrPeR_: sure you could have ltsp-FOO call whatever command you want ... ?
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| 10:01 | _UsUrPeR_: i don't understand what you're aiming for
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| 10:02 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, so what I am trying to do is limit the commands that a user can run with the ltsp-localapps command. I am using xterm as a test program because when it works on the client, it is readily evident.
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| 10:03 | <cyberorg> Gadi, thanks, will test the fix :)
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| 10:03 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: why limit?
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| 10:04 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: institutional limitations
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| 10:04 | <warren> uh huh
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| 10:04 | _UsUrPeR_: it is going to be VERY difficult to impossible
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| 10:04 | to fully lock that down
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| 10:05 | _UsUrPeR_: local apps already run as the non-root user of the user itself
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| 10:05 | <rjune> does local apps still use ssh?
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| 10:05 | <vagrantc> _UsUrPeR_: to really lock that down, you'd have to customize ltsp-localappsd ...
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| 10:05 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: precisely! :D
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| 10:05 | err... wait, no, vagrantc: precisely!
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| 10:05 | <warren> vagrantc is correct.
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> actually sounds like a useful feature...
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| 10:06 | <warren> and you cannot run anything with parameters
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| 10:06 | <_UsUrPeR_> exactly.
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| 10:06 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: are you sure you specified LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISK=False and not LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS ??
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| 10:07 | cyberorg: because with none of the booleans set, it should be identical to your patch, unless you've also specified LOCALDEV_DENY in your lts.conf
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| 10:07 | <_UsUrPeR_> cyberorg: According to our customer, the 1-click install works great with openchrome now. Thanks for all your help.
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| 10:08 | <cyberorg> ah, had LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS = False
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| 10:08 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: i kept doing that too
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| 10:08 | cyberorg: i guess we need an alias.
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| 10:08 | <cyberorg> vagrantc, that still dont explain why removable usb wont show up
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| 10:09 | vagrantc, Gadi, just fixed something
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| 10:09 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: right... no idea why your USB wouldn't show up.
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| 10:09 | <cyberorg> _UsUrPeR_, glad i can help :)
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| 10:10 | <vagrantc> cyberorg: all the udevadm info stuff looks fine to me.
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| 10:10 | <Eeyore-Jr> is anybody using wine in thier ltsp envirionment?
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| 10:11 | <cyberorg> Gadi, pastebin also has partition udevinfo
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| 10:12 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: yes
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| 10:13 | <cyberorg> Gadi, just + break ?
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| 10:13 | <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: how? i found this article which comes close i think
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| 10:13 | http://wiki.jswindle.com/index.php/Advanced_Wine_User_Installation#Installing_Wine_across_Multiple_desktops
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| 10:14 | sbalneav: r u the one with the manual?
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| 10:14 | any chance the manual could be wiki or public yet?
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> cyberorg: indeed
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> the logic was wrong
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| 10:14 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: The manual is public:
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| 10:14 | !doco
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| 10:14 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
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| 10:14 | <Eeyore-Jr> the new one?
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| 10:14 | <Gadi> if the last value in the AND series matched, it succeeded
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| 10:15 | <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: k, thx
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| 10:15 | <Gadi> rather than requiring all to match
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| 10:15 | my bad
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| 10:15 | <sbalneav> I'm totally dead set against turning it into a wiki
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| 10:15 | <vagrantc> oops.
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| 10:15 | <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: ??
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| 10:15 | * Gadi never claimed to be logical :) | |
| 10:16 | otavio has joined #ltsp | |
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| 10:16 | leio has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:16 | <Eeyore-Jr> wiki leverages the power of the people. many users, compisite manual
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| 10:16 | <cyberorg> Gadi, great, i am not even that logical to figure out the bug ;)
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| 10:16 | * ogra always thought Gadi secretly implied that :) | |
| 10:16 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i had wondered a little about that code ... but didn't experience any troubles so just went with it :)
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| 10:16 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: Many users == low qualtity. Have you looked at the mess the LTSP 4.2 documentation's turned into?
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| 10:16 | <ogra> Eeyore-Jr, lots of wrong info you need ... you need someone to look after it all the time
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| 10:17 | <Gadi> vagrantc: yeah its on me
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| 10:17 | <Eeyore-Jr> anyhow, so ur using wine in a ltsp? rsyncing hte directories, or each user has thier own wine directory?
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| 10:17 | <ogra> -"you need"
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| 10:17 | <ltsppbot> "_UsUrPeR_" pasted "ltsp-localapps & ltsp-localappsd edited to execute only xterm" (80 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/124
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| 10:17 | <Eeyore-Jr> well, yes, a wiki requires an editor
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| 10:17 | <sbalneav> Besides, people want a manual they can "print out"
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| 10:17 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, you are aware that localapps can only be executed anyway if they are installed in the chroot ?
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| 10:17 | <Eeyore-Jr> that's what html to pdf is for ?
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| 10:17 | :)
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| 10:18 | <sbalneav> Umm
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| 10:18 | <ogra> _UsUrPeR_, just dont install what yu dont want to be executed ;)
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| 10:18 | <sbalneav> Well unless you're going to only have 1 wiki page, that doesn't turn out so well.
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| 10:18 | CAN-o-SPAM_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:18 | <Eeyore-Jr> anyhow. back tothe wine issue. i was thinking i needed to create a .wine directory outside of the /home directory, perhaps in / and then symlink usrers directory to the outside directory and use wineprefix to set that directory
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| 10:19 | <sbalneav> That won't work.
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| 10:19 | <vagrantc> wiki is a great place to collect useful tidbits of information, but i've never found it useful for comprehensive documentation
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| 10:19 | <Eeyore-Jr> :(
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| 10:19 | <ogra> vagrantc, ++
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| 10:19 | <sbalneav> Each user needs their own distinctive .wine directory to handle their settings.
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| 10:19 | What I do is:
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| 10:20 | * ogra really likes https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ though ... but it would be nothig if Lns wouldnt look after it all the time | |
| 10:20 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: yeah, well this seems to be the easiest way for myself to limit usage. It's either uninstall/remove everything that could possibly be a security issue, or limit the use of ltsp-localapps. It seems the latter is easier...
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| 10:20 | <sbalneav> Install the software under 1 user, take the installation from the "drive_c" folder, and move it to a central location.
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| 10:21 | then, for each user's .wine, symlink the software from their drive_c.
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| 10:21 | that way, you only have 1 copy of the software, but everyone has their own registry, custimizations, etc.
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| 10:22 | <sbalneav> As for the manual, anyone who wants to contribute, can email me stuff. 1 or two good submissions buys you entrance to the ltsp-docwriters team, then you can modify the XML directly. :)
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| 10:23 | <Eeyore-Jr> i'm not sure i know enough yet to write
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| 10:23 | <Eeyore-Jr> i'd like to though
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| 10:23 | <ogra> yeah, the ltsp-docwriters team is pretty open
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| 10:23 | <vagrantc> any qualms with changing LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISK to LOCALDEV_DENY_INTERNAL_DISKS ?
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| 10:23 | Loto__ has quit IRC | |
| 10:24 | <ogra> not at all
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| 10:24 | <sbalneav> go for it
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| 10:24 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:24 | <cyberorg> none at all :)
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| 10:25 | <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: if you have 300 users wouldn't that be a daunting task?
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| 10:26 | <ogra> there are these things called scripts ;)
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| 10:26 | just write one :)
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| 10:26 | <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: is what you described in the manual?
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| 10:27 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: No, simply because it's really got nothing to do with LTSP
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| 10:28 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: I've got 185 users, so I'm not having too much trouble with it.
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| 10:29 | <rjune> ogra: feeling snarky today?
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| 10:30 | <ogra> rjune, today ?
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| 10:30 | :)
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| 10:30 | <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: how do you figure?
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| 10:30 | <ogra> rjune, really, its a two ... max three ... liner
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| 10:32 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: how do I figure what? That it's not to hard to administer? Easy: I created some shell scripts to do most of the hard work for me :)
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| 10:32 | So, I have the shell script create a default .wine, set up the dirs, and do the symlink to the app.
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| 10:35 | <Eeyore-Jr> i've always looked at ltsp server as a vehicle for using software. software is where the real power of any pc to user is, and without software it's a pretty boat anchor. windows by far has a larger range of software applications provided you select the proper software
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| 10:36 | to leverage power behind ltsp server, knowing how to setup multiple wine install/wine is just as important and setting up ltsp server ... but i could be wrong
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| 10:36 | <ogra> its a general task for multi user systems
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| 10:36 | <Gadi> your OS is a vehicle for using software - LTSP is a vehicle for booting a diskless client to an OS
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| 10:37 | <Q-FUNK> feel the OS. carress the OS.
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| 10:37 | <sbalneav> So, how is setting up wine in an LTSP environment any different from setting it up in say, simply a network of full workstations, with shared home directories on an NFS server.
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| 10:37 | <Q-FUNK> all your OS are belong to Gadi :-P
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| 10:38 | <cyberorg> Gadi, that fixed it
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> Certainly, if someone wants to write up a wiki page on THAT, that makes sense to put in the wiki.
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> cyberorg: YAY
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| 10:38 | <sbalneav> But as part of the "official" ltsp upstream documentation, no probably not.
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| 10:38 | <Gadi> thx for pointing it out
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| 10:39 | <sbalneav> There's alread some stuff in the doco that I don't think should be there.
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| 10:39 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> gadi: have you received my e-mails?
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| 10:39 | * cyberorg goes to bed now, 'night all | |
| 10:39 | <sbalneav> Night cyberorg
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| 10:40 | <Eeyore-Jr> nm, i'll do some reading
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| 10:40 | <Gadi> CAN-o-SPAM_: emails?
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| 10:40 | * Gadi does not think so | |
| 10:40 | * Gadi hopes they didnt go to my CAN-i-SPAM | |
| 10:40 | <Gadi> er *o
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| 10:41 | :)
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| 10:41 | <Q-FUNK> all your spam are belong to can.
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| 10:41 | <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: As for the wine bit, I suppose you could try having a single shared .wine, read only to the users, symlinked from their directory, but I'm willing to wager that whatever app you're going to run will be very, VERY unhappy if it can't write to the registry.
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| 11:09 | <Gadi> sbalneav: do you have a script that reposts the latest docs from upstream?
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| 11:09 | or do you do it manually every so often?
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| 11:10 | * Gadi tried to rephrase some of the distro-specific assumptions there the other day | |
| 11:11 | <ogra> tried ?
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| 11:12 | <Gadi> well, succeeded I suppose
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| 11:12 | dmaran has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:12 | <Gadi> but, I only fixed a few in a section I happened to read
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| 11:12 | :)
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| 11:12 | too many people assume Ubuntu == upstream
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| 11:12 | and it shows in the docs
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| 11:12 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:13 | it was upstream long enough ...
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| 11:13 | <Gadi> and, yet I am sure you are happy to have it off your shoulders
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| 11:13 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:14 | i think the model we are using now upstream is quite uniqe as well
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| 11:14 | <Gadi> we are the UN of FOSS
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| 11:14 | :)
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| 11:14 | <ogra> hehe
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| 11:14 | <Gadi> too bad nobody likes the UN
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| 11:14 | * ogra wants a T-shirt with that | |
| 11:14 | <Gadi> :)
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| 11:18 | <vagrantc> i haven't been involved with upstream of many projects that weren't very debian-specific ...
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| 11:18 | other than ltsp
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| 11:18 | * ogra too | |
| 11:19 | * vagrantc ponders tagging ltspfs | |
| 11:19 | <ogra> go for it
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| 11:19 | <warren> Ubuntu isn't upstream?
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| 11:19 | Even I'm confused now.
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| 11:19 | <ogra> warren, ?
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| 11:26 | <sbalneav> Gadi: Manually
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| 11:26 | Gadi: I like the UN
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| 11:27 | warren: Our "first" distro was Ubuntu, and Ubuntu sponsored a lot of the initial work.
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| 11:27 | But now we have Vagrant, you, cyberorg, etc.
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| 11:29 | <ogra> now we have ltsp-upstream :)
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| 11:29 | <vagrantc> debian was very shortly after ubuntu as far as uploaded packages, and debian-edu actually released before ubuntu's first release
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| 11:30 | <ogra> we should rename teh team ... ltsp-upstream-UN-of-FOSS
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| 11:30 | so much fun to type :P
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| 11:32 | <cliebow> perhaps we should just declare ourselves king of Scotland..like idi amin
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| 11:32 | <vagrantc> ltspfs 0.5.7 tagged and pushing...
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| 11:33 | <warren> ogra: But then we need rotating seats on the security council
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| 11:33 | ogra: and one day bad boys like SCO will rotate into that seate
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| 11:33 | seaet
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| 11:33 | seaet
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| 11:33 | damn it
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| 11:33 | <sbalneav> I Have a Chinese Triptych in my office declaring me "The Electric Brain Emperoro"
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| 11:33 | <warren> S E A T
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| 11:33 | <sbalneav> Suit?
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| 11:34 | <ogra> does a swivel chair count as rotating seat ?
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| 11:34 | * ogra has one | |
| 11:35 | <ogra> i could borrow it to Gadi who isnt to far from the security council, he could bring it there
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| 11:36 | <cliebow> weehee!
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| 11:36 | <Gadi> so now I am the UN's bitch?
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| 11:36 | * Gadi shakes his head | |
| 11:36 | <ogra> just the delivery boy :)
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| 11:36 | <Gadi> just like in the real UN
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| 11:37 | <ogra> Gadi, warren just talked about seats ... not that someone has to sit on them :P
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| 11:43 | <warren> I was talking about seaet
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| 11:43 | whatever that is
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| 11:45 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 11:46 | <ogra> ah, right, indeed, that i missed :)
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| 11:47 | * ogra grumbles again about rpm | |
| 11:48 | <warren> yes, I know rpm is awesome
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| 11:48 | except when it isn't
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| 11:49 | <johnny> warren, drop rpm :)
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| 11:49 | pick up .debs :)
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| 11:49 | <ogra> hehe
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| 11:49 | johnny, wouldnt help him
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| 11:49 | lsb still requires that you have the rpm binary
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| 11:49 | <johnny> that can be amended :)
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| 11:49 | <ogra> whcih is why i'm fiddling with the package
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| 11:49 | <johnny> at some point..
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| 11:49 | <warren> does it say that the rpm binary must work?
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| 11:49 | <ogra> heh, not sure
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| 11:50 | <johnny> lsb5 could use .deb instead..
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| 11:50 | <ogra> i'll meet ted tso next week, i'll ask him :)
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| 11:50 | <warren> LSB could make itself even more irrelevant by mandating autopackage
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| 11:50 | or something else worse
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| 11:51 | The LSB's own test suites are terrible
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| 11:51 | they rely on buggy behavior
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| 11:51 | <ogra> i think there is some movement
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| 11:51 | td will hold a talk abotu the upcoming improvements at UDS i was told
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| 11:52 | *ted
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| 11:53 | warren, i was quite surprised to see FC releases with a release candidate version of rpm though
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| 11:54 | <warren> ogra: we do releases with rc versions of kernel sometimes
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| 11:54 | ogra: rc rpm is meaningless
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| 11:54 | <ogra> well, we do too
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| 11:54 | :)
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| 11:54 | <warren> ogra: that rpm is far more stable than the previous "stable" rpm
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| 11:54 | <ogra> do you know why you dont use rpm5 ?
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| 11:55 | <warren> rpm5 is a fork by crazy people
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| 11:55 | nobody uses rpm5
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| 11:55 | <ogra> seeing there are two different upstreams is very confusing
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| 11:55 | ah, good to know
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| 11:55 | <warren> strike that
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| 11:55 | <ogra> yeah, already did
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| 11:55 | <warren> a community that builds rpm packages for darwin kernel uses it
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| 11:55 | <ogra> ah
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| 11:55 | <warren> they do fat binaries
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| 11:56 | ppc and x86 in the same binary file
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| 11:56 | <ogra> i'm poking around on rpm-4.6.0-rc2 atm
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| 11:56 | BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:56 | <ogra> but getting all the patches that are against 4.4.x in shape is a pain
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| 11:57 | though someting to do while i'm sitting at airports tomorrow
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| 11:57 | <warren> rpm-4.4.x is a disaster because the rpm5 guy was in charge for so long
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| 11:59 | * ogra sees there is a ubuntu specific typo fis for the manpage that wasnt fixed between 4.4 and 4.6 | |
| 11:59 | <ogra> grmbl
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| 11:59 | i whish people would just send their patches where they belong :(
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| 12:00 | <warren> rpm.org is very active now
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| 12:01 | <ogra> yeah, but it uses trac
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| 12:02 | <warren> I suppose you are suggesting that rpm.org should move to launchpad?
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| 12:02 | <ogra> indeed *grin*
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| 12:02 | everybody should
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| 12:02 | that would make LP so much better
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| 12:02 | <warren> git development should move to launchpad? =)
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| 12:03 | <ogra> git development should ... git trees ... not so much
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| 12:03 | git just hurts ... with my work on armel i have to build kernels all the time ... its so painful and slow ...
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| 12:04 | <johnny> git slow??? lol
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| 12:05 | bzr is slow..
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| 12:05 | <ogra> huh ?
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| 12:05 | <johnny> personally.. i dislike both compared to monotone.. so i'm not playing favorites
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| 12:05 | spectra_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:06 | <ogra> compared to git bzr just flies
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| 12:06 | <johnny> the bzr folks looks like they don't even look to mtn for lessons
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| 12:06 | their --fixes thing.. is pretty short sighted..
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| 12:07 | mtn let you assign arbitrary certificates to any revision.. not just some hardcoded fixes option..
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| 12:08 | and the support for one hardcoded shorturl scheme doesn't give any favors either..
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| 12:11 | spectra_ is now known as spectra | |
| 12:12 | <ogra> wow, impressing, i just filed the 11th bug against rpm ?
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| 12:25 | <rjune> damn
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| 12:25 | your internal bugdb or the main rpm one?
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| 12:28 | ogra: ^
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| 12:28 | <ogra> the main rpm one :)
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| 12:29 | <vagrantc> i should test on real hardware more often ...
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| 12:29 | found another bug with usb sticks...
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| 12:30 | if a stick isn't plugged in at the time of login (or ldm startup), there's no /var/run/ltspfs_token, and thus devices plugged in afterwards fail to authenticate...
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| 12:31 | with my testing i've always had a cdrom or floppy device...
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| 12:32 | at least, i think that's the issue...
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| 12:34 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> DisklessWorkstations.Com is planning to 'police' and 'protect' the LTSP trademark. If anyone has any comments/concerns/questions regarding this please send me a PM. Thank You.
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| 12:34 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM_, planning ?
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| 12:35 | CAN-o-SPAM_, i thought it already owns it anyway ...
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| 12:35 | * ogra was always assuming it is protected through that | |
| 12:35 | * vagrantc hopes for no mozilla nonsense | |
| 12:36 | <rjune> I thought jammcq had that
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| 12:37 | <ogra> rjune, jammcq owned pieces of DisklessWorkstations.Com ... when he left he left the trademark with them
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| 12:37 | <warren> ogra: if you don't prevent misuse of a trademark you risk losing it
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| 12:37 | <ogra> warren, right, but i was trying to understand 'police' and 'protect'
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| 12:37 | <warren> DisklessWorkstations could go nuts and demand royalties for use of the trademark
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| 12:37 | <ogra> protection should be there by owning it
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| 12:38 | <warren> but they wouldn't
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| 12:38 | I would rename it to DisklessKit if we had to rename it.
| |
| 12:38 | LocalAppsKit
| |
| 12:38 | * rjune goes to trademark... | |
| 12:38 | <ogra> haha
| |
| 12:38 | <warren> JetpipeKit
| |
| 12:38 | <johnny> warren, please no caps like that
| |
| 12:39 | it's the worst thing ever
| |
| 12:39 | <warren> Hitler?
| |
| 12:39 | * ogra quickly goes and trademarks the term Kit :) | |
| 12:39 | <warren> Britney Spears?
| |
| 12:39 | <vagrantc> well, of course debian would rename it to icetsp
| |
| 12:39 | <rjune> LOL
| |
| 12:39 | <johnny> warren, just disklesskit please
| |
| 12:39 | making me hit shift all the time. you bastards
| |
| 12:39 | <rjune> fedora-diskless
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> hell, i could resurrect lessdisks :)
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| 12:40 | <ogra> the ltsp-client package in ubuntu until recently provided a virtual package called ubuntu-thin-client :)
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| 12:40 | <vagrantc> ogra: finally ditched it, eh? :)
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| 12:40 | <ogra> yeah
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| 12:40 | at least i think so
| |
| 12:40 | * ogra looks | |
| 12:41 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> The intent is not to repremand to cause distrubances, the intent is to protect you (the developers of ltsp), and ensure that anything marked LTSP is actually LTSP and not something else
| |
| 12:41 | <ogra> phew, yeah
| |
| 12:41 | CAN-o-SPAM_, that was what i was hoping to hear :)
| |
| 12:42 | <rjune> so if I start a brewery, can I make LTSP lager as long as I donate to the project?
| |
| 12:42 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM_: the real question will be how it is enforced
| |
| 12:42 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> rjune: i'm sure we can work that out
| |
| 12:42 | vagrantc: this is your opportuntity to put your opinion in ... thats why i'm asking!
| |
| 12:42 | <warren> rjune: CAN-o-SPAM_: nope, a LTSP beer doesn't need trademark approval
| |
| 12:42 | trademarks are specific to an industry
| |
| 12:42 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> rjune: there will be some required free deliverly to me (warren *shhh*)
| |
| 12:42 | <ogra> depends how widely the TM is files
| |
| 12:42 | <warren> ooh right
| |
| 12:42 | <ogra> *filed
| |
| 12:43 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM_: you could make your own beer (could be crap) and trademark it
| |
| 12:43 | * ogra still has a 5kg box of the famous Linux detergent here | |
| 12:43 | <vagrantc> trademarks can have multiple industries, but in theory, you shouldn't be able to get them for industries that are entirely unrelated.
| |
| 12:44 | <cliebow> beer and ltsp unrelatedc???
| |
| 12:44 | <rjune> warren, yes and no.
| |
| 12:44 | <vagrantc> cliebow: good point.
| |
| 12:44 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> either way ... i'm looking for opinions on how you (LTSP Developers) would like to see the trademark protected ... that is all.
| |
| 12:44 | <rjune> I could call it LTSP, but I couldn't use their logo
| |
| 12:44 | <cliebow> 8~]
| |
| 12:44 | <ogra> http://samanathon.com/linux-detergent-and-microsoft-fabric-softener/ .... linux on microsoft
| |
| 12:44 | <warren> rjune: the logo is so attractive and all
| |
| 12:44 | <johnny> i would like the trademark to be held by some nonprofit.. but that's just me perhaps..
| |
| 12:44 | <rjune> and they could make the case that by calling it LTSP I mislead the customer into thinking they would support the project
| |
| 12:45 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> johnny: do you have any interest in funding a non-profit to hold the trademark?
| |
| 12:45 | <johnny> no
| |
| 12:45 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ok
| |
| 12:45 | <johnny> finding an existing one
| |
| 12:45 | to hold it
| |
| 12:45 | no need for more..
| |
| 12:46 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM_: my main concern is to get into some debacle like with the mozilla foundations policies ... where you have to pre-approve patches before distributing binaries.
| |
| 12:46 | i think the real issue is that free software and trademarks are really at odds with one another...
| |
| 12:47 | <warren> vagrantc: what if you are on the patch approval committee? =)
| |
| 12:47 | <vagrantc> warren: i still believe that the software should be unencumbered for those who aren't.
| |
| 12:47 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> vagrantc: i see that. the otherside is people have concerns that people will use LTSP without actually contributing to LTSP and your work ...
| |
| 12:47 | <warren> vagrantc: is changing the name really onerous in such cases?
| |
| 12:47 | <johnny> i don't see trademark at odds with free software myself..
| |
| 12:47 | * ogra would define that the used code has to come from the ltsp-upstream team | |
| 12:47 | <warren> Note, I'm not suggesting that LTSP need to be as extreme and stupid as Mozilla.
| |
| 12:48 | <rjune> CAN-o-SPAM_: why not grant a license to any group which contributes
| |
| 12:48 | <vagrantc> warren: it can be technically difficult, like in the case of firefox.
| |
| 12:48 | * CAN-o-SPAM_ would agree with warren | |
| 12:48 | <rjune> time for staph meeting
| |
| 12:48 | <vagrantc> warren: it actually takes an inordinate amount of time to re-work the code.
| |
| 12:48 | <rjune> ax time
| |
| 12:48 | <warren> vagrantc: it could be less onerous depending on upstream design
| |
| 12:48 | <ogra> s/from/through
| |
| 12:48 | * CAN-o-SPAM_ agrees with ogra ... forget warren | |
| 12:48 | <johnny> $APP_NAME = 'whatever'
| |
| 12:48 | <warren> vagrantc: Fedora for example, we put LOTS of effort to debrand everything and make it really quick to rename it.
| |
| 12:48 | <johnny> instead of whatever scattered everywhere..
| |
| 12:49 | <warren> we ship generic-logos now
| |
| 12:49 | we're so generic.
| |
| 12:49 | <vagrantc> johnny: they are at odds, in the sense that mozilla is actually taking one very solid and clear interpretation of trademark precedent, and it effectively requires a fork of the software to comply.
| |
| 12:49 | <warren> rjune: granting a license explicitly would be entirely non-free
| |
| 12:49 | Fedora wouldn't ship that.
| |
| 12:49 | <vagrantc> warren: sure, a good debranding design can help a lot ...
| |
| 12:50 | <ogra> do we actually have branding in ltsp ?
| |
| 12:50 | apart from one logo in ldm
| |
| 12:50 | <johnny> the command names
| |
| 12:50 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> we will
| |
| 12:50 | <warren> generic-localappsd
| |
| 12:50 | generic-update-kernel
| |
| 12:50 | =)
| |
| 12:50 | <vagrantc> ogra: the name of the packages?
| |
| 12:50 | <ogra> vagrantc, yeah, well
| |
| 12:51 | i meant actual branding thats visible
| |
| 12:51 | you dont have an executable or any entry in a menu
| |
| 12:51 | <johnny> i'd like to see that ldm theme redesigned..
| |
| 12:51 | <ogra> th eonly user visible part is ldm
| |
| 12:51 | <vagrantc> the ltsp theme for ldm :)
| |
| 12:51 | <johnny> it's kinda ugly now.
| |
| 12:52 | <ogra> and thats even rebranded on most distros already
| |
| 12:52 | <vagrantc> johnny: now, as in, since when?
| |
| 12:52 | <johnny> lol
| |
| 12:52 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM_, any plans to get a commercially designed logo ?
| |
| 12:52 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ogra: very interested in that
| |
| 12:53 | <ogra> (i didnt volunteer ... was just a question :) )
| |
| 12:53 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> i'd like to position LTSP to grow in a commercial way, LTSP deserves a stronger stance in businesses, and we all know how the politics go, we need to present ourselves in that manner. DisklessWorkstations.com will work to foster those relationships and grow LTSP, DLW will not work to take ownership from LTSP or credit frm LTSP developers
| |
| 12:53 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM_: it's hard to say what would be a recommendation, as i have no idea what y'all plan to do with the trademark... what you see as inappropriate uses of it.
| |
| 12:54 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> ogra: i was waiting for that :)
| |
| 12:54 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM_, we have some ltsp customers at canonical ...
| |
| 12:54 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> vagrantc: i think inappropriate uses of it might come from what you see, what ogra sees, what warren sees, etc ...
| |
| 12:54 | <ogra> it works quite well
| |
| 12:55 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM_: i haven't seen particularly aggregious uses of it yet...
| |
| 12:55 | <warren> ltspsucks.org?
| |
| 12:55 | ltsppbot has quit IRC | |
| 12:55 | <johnny> buy it up before it's gone
| |
| 12:55 | <ogra> warren, now you scared the bot
| |
| 12:55 | <warren> ltsppbot didn't have a license. good bye.
| |
| 12:55 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM_: another organization i've been involved with has been attempting to enforce trademarks, and it overall is just an ugly mess.
| |
| 12:55 | <johnny> warrenisadork.com
| |
| 12:56 | <warren> johnny: dude I get so much google ads revenue on that
| |
| 12:56 | <johnny> it will be a page about all things warren
| |
| 12:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> vagrantc: i completely understand, speaking with you and everyone else, i think is a 'baby-step' in the appropriate directly
| |
| 12:56 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM_: so without specific examples of abuses of the mark, i don't really know what to say.
| |
| 12:56 | elisboa has quit IRC | |
| 12:56 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> direction*
| |
| 12:57 | i wonder how many his ltspsucks.org just got
| |
| 12:57 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM_: simpler guidelines the better, probably
| |
| 12:57 | CAN-o-SPAM_: you run the risk of wasting everyone including your time
| |
| 12:58 | <ogra> you can define it quite loosely ...
| |
| 12:58 | <vagrantc> i do like the idea of the trademark being held in trust of a non-profit, and think it would be good to find an existing non-profit that could be trusted...
| |
| 12:58 | <warren> PETA?
| |
| 12:58 | <ogra> look at the ubuntu trademark ... you are allowed to use it in any context as long as the name makes clear its a remix of what the original ubuntu is
| |
| 12:58 | <warren> vagrantc: or the NRA
| |
| 12:58 | <johnny> sounds wonderful..
| |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> lol
| |
| 12:59 | <warren> I know!
| |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> So, I googled for "ltsp sucks"
| |
| 12:59 | * johnny images warren with two double barrel shotguns | |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> http://natalian.org/archives/2006/03/24/mass-deployment/
| |
| 12:59 | <warren> Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
| |
| 12:59 | <vagrantc> the tricky part is finding a non-profit that would actually have the resources to enforce, if it came to that...
| |
| 12:59 | <sbalneav> "Every computer has a hard drive!"
| |
| 12:59 | *every* *computer*
| |
| 13:00 | <warren> sbalneav: send him a t-shirt
| |
| 13:00 | <sbalneav> *e* *v* *e* *r* *y*
| |
| 13:00 | <cliebow> a virtual hard drive..
| |
| 13:00 | <warren> sbalneav: heck, my LTSP SERVER needs no hard drive now.
| |
| 13:00 | <jammcq> think of what all those spinning hard drives are doing to the rotation of the earth
| |
| 13:00 | <ogra> warren, bah, yo are not allowed to carry the trademark then :P
| |
| 13:00 | <cliebow> luckily they are all spinning in diff directions
| |
| 13:00 | <sbalneav> BTW, there are only 4 hits on "ltsp sucks"
| |
| 13:00 | <jammcq> all those little gyros
| |
| 13:00 | <warren> jammcq: time to start the Conservation of Angular Momentum Foundation.
| |
| 13:00 | <sbalneav> so I think we win.
| |
| 13:00 | <warren> I'll join CAMF.
| |
| 13:00 | <jammcq> warren: perfect
| |
| 13:00 | <cliebow> the magnetic flux
| |
| 13:01 | ltsppbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:01 | <cliebow> the magnetic flux field not generated by thinclient
| |
| 13:01 | <jammcq> sorry, camf.org isn't available
| |
| 13:01 | <warren> CAMFoundation?
| |
| 13:01 | <jammcq> Registrant Name:CONFEDERACION ANDALUZA DE MINUSVALIDOS FISICOS
| |
| 13:01 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: heh. i've met the guy who i think runs natalian.org ... *wingnut*
| |
| 13:02 | <sbalneav> More gold:
| |
| 13:02 | "I’m not into recycling PCs. Waste of time IMO. Put a hammer to them. ;)"
| |
| 13:02 | <jammcq> sounds like an american
| |
| 13:02 | <johnny> your mom is american
| |
| 13:02 | <sbalneav> Dude
| |
| 13:03 | not cool
| |
| 13:03 | <johnny> hehe
| |
| 13:03 | <warren> jammcq: 20 years from now Chinese charities will feed the hungry Americans...
| |
| 13:03 | <ogra> ++
| |
| 13:03 | <johnny> :(
| |
| 13:03 | <ogra> johnny, just reality
| |
| 13:03 | <johnny> who wants to sponsor me for citizenships in one of your fantastic countries
| |
| 13:04 | <warren> Elbonia?
| |
| 13:04 | <jammcq> elbonia++
| |
| 13:04 | <vagrantc> jammcq: i think south african
| |
| 13:05 | <jammcq> Elbonia is the fictional country from the Dilbert strip
| |
| 13:06 | <warren> what!? I wired all of my money to an Elbonian minister
| |
| 13:06 | * jammcq checks to see if the money arrived in his account | |
| 13:09 | <_UsUrPeR_> how do I restart localappsd on a client if I killed the process?
| |
| 13:09 | without restarting, mind you
| |
| 13:13 | johnny has quit IRC | |
| 13:13 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:16 | johnny has quit IRC | |
| 13:17 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:18 | <Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: log out and log back in
| |
| 13:19 | <johnny> hmm erlang..
| |
| 13:19 | randra has quit IRC | |
| 13:20 | Eghie has quit IRC | |
| 13:25 | Rob_Z has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:26 | <Rob_Z> hi, I run one of your mirrors, and I got an email from someone mentioning some a corrupt file. I have been trying to get ahold of my one contact who I knew used to have rsync push access
| |
| 13:26 | klausade has quit IRC | |
| 13:26 | <Rob_Z> if there anyone I can talk to/email who may be able to look at/push thing
| |
| 13:27 | klausade has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:28 | <johnny> huh?
| |
| 13:28 | <Gadi> Rob_Z: an ltsp mirror?
| |
| 13:28 | is your contact jammcq?
| |
| 13:29 | <Rob_Z> http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/
| |
| 13:29 | <Gadi> aka Jim McQuillan
| |
| 13:29 | <Rob_Z> I had jam@ltsp.org
| |
| 13:29 | <jammcq> hmm
| |
| 13:29 | <Gadi> that works too
| |
| 13:29 | or you can talk to him live
| |
| 13:29 | <Rob_Z> and I just got a bounce
| |
| 13:29 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 13:29 | <jammcq> if only we could find him
| |
| 13:29 | <Rob_Z> hah
| |
| 13:29 | <jammcq> what's up?
| |
| 13:30 | <johnny> you broke it jammcq
| |
| 13:30 | we know it was you
| |
| 13:30 | <jammcq> hey, I'll take full responsibility
| |
| 13:30 | <johnny> there's an ltsp-5 directory in there
| |
| 13:30 | <Rob_Z> :) I got an email from someone this morning saying http://ltsp.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ltsp/ltsp-5.0/ltsp_debian_etch_i386-1.tar.bz2 was damaged
| |
| 13:30 | <johnny> weird
| |
| 13:30 | <ogra> ugh
| |
| 13:30 | <jammcq> hmm
| |
| 13:30 | <Gadi> heh
| |
| 13:30 | <johnny> is that even needed anymore?
| |
| 13:30 | <ogra> why is that even there
| |
| 13:30 | <Rob_Z> and I was looking for someone to repush the rsync or get md5s so I could checksum it
| |
| 13:30 | <jammcq> we should prolly pull that file. it's quite old
| |
| 13:30 | <warren> do we really need mirrors sanymore?
| |
| 13:30 | <Gadi> sounds like good news
| |
| 13:31 | <ogra> jammcq, the whole dir please
| |
| 13:31 | <johnny> probably drop the entire ltsp-50
| |
| 13:31 | <jammcq> warren: we still need to provide the old LTSP-4.2 stuff
| |
| 13:31 | <ogra> it also has unsupported ubuntu crap in it
| |
| 13:31 | <jammcq> even tho it's not supported
| |
| 13:31 | <warren> I'm glad you say "ubuntu crap"
| |
| 13:31 | <johnny> yeah.. just drop ltsp-5
| |
| 13:31 | warren, stop your fedora crap :)
| |
| 13:31 | <warren> =)
| |
| 13:31 | <Rob_Z> damn linux crap :-P
| |
| 13:31 | <ogra> warren, it was all pre-release stuff
| |
| 13:31 | <warren> yeah yeah I'm just joking
| |
| 13:32 | <ogra> :)
| |
| 13:32 | <johnny> warren, i'm still using fedora10 here.. but rpm makes me sad :(
| |
| 13:32 | or rather.. yum makes me sad
| |
| 13:32 | <jammcq> I think if I remove it from my system, then when I do the rsync with the --delete option, it'll remove it from the mirror
| |
| 13:32 | <ogra> warren, you know i dont take you serious anyway :P
| |
| 13:32 | <warren> johnny: install synaptic?
| |
| 13:32 | <johnny> warren, i mostly use packagekit
| |
| 13:32 | so it's ok
| |
| 13:32 | * vagrantc would still like a place to upload upstream tarballs | |
| 13:32 | <warren> PackageKit sucks less than yesterday
| |
| 13:32 | <johnny> packagekit needs a search in description option. and submatching support
| |
| 13:33 | then i will be happier
| |
| 13:33 | * warren hasn't tried synaptic since like 2004 | |
| 13:33 | <johnny> sucks less than yeterday?
| |
| 13:33 | did i miss a new version?
| |
| 13:33 | warren, stop capitalizing it :)
| |
| 13:33 | <Rob_Z> well then looks like I sparced a debate, heh
| |
| 13:33 | <johnny> kick richard hughes
| |
| 13:33 | and david zeuthen
| |
| 13:33 | to stop ruining my computer with capitals
| |
| 13:33 | <warren> Rob_Z: we like to tease each other
| |
| 13:34 | johnny: his name is capitalized
| |
| 13:34 | <Gadi> vagrantc: can you move that LTSPFS_TOKEN patch to an xinitrc.d script?
| |
| 13:34 | it should apply to all X sessions
| |
| 13:34 | not just LDM
| |
| 13:34 | <johnny> warren, he's not a program :)
| |
| 13:34 | well.. i guess he sorta is..
| |
| 13:34 | <warren> [root@newcaprica ~]# apt-get update
| |
| 13:34 | Segmentation fault
| |
| 13:34 | hahhaha
| |
| 13:34 | <johnny> but he's still a human being.. sorta..
| |
| 13:34 | <vagrantc> Gadi: probably
| |
| 13:35 | <Gadi> hehe
| |
| 13:35 | thank you?
| |
| 13:35 | :)
| |
| 13:35 | <johnny> warren, i don't usee you as Warren.. :)
| |
| 13:35 | <warren> yeah, you keep saying "you dork!"
| |
| 13:35 | chrisinajar has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:35 | <johnny> you're just warren
| |
| 13:35 | <warren> I begin to respond to "you dork"
| |
| 13:36 | <johnny> neat..
| |
| 13:36 | <jammcq> Rob_Z: see if that looks any better now
| |
| 13:36 | <johnny> solar power umbrellas
| |
| 13:36 | <warren> johnny: oh, it turns out apt isn't ported to the new rpm yet
| |
| 13:36 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 13:36 | <johnny> i should get some of those. .and put them outside of red emma's
| |
| 13:36 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i don't have the time to test moving it right now, though.
| |
| 13:36 | <johnny> altho people will probably steal them..
| |
| 13:36 | somebody stole our lightbulb!
| |
| 13:37 | <Gadi> vagrantc: ah, ok
| |
| 13:37 | <Rob_Z> jammcq: I'll email the user, he was .ru so not sure if/when I'll get feedback
| |
| 13:37 | <Gadi> that explains the 'probably'
| |
| 13:37 | <jammcq> Rob_Z: thank you very much
| |
| 13:37 | <Rob_Z> thank you
| |
| 13:37 | ltsp was one of the few things on the mirrors I never have to deal with, so I had to poke around to find out how we got the content
| |
| 13:38 | <jammcq> well... sorry you had to deal with this
| |
| 13:38 | <Rob_Z> no need for that
| |
| 13:38 | <Gadi> and by 'this' he means 'us'
| |
| 13:38 | :)
| |
| 13:38 | <jammcq> zackly
| |
| 13:38 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i suspect all the ubuntu versions will still populate it from init
| |
| 13:39 | <Gadi> vagrantc: they cannot - it requires the X server, no?
| |
| 13:39 | <vagrantc> Gadi: ah, right. that part, yes.
| |
| 13:39 | Gadi: but i didn't change that behavior
| |
| 13:39 | <Gadi> you mean they populate the token file ahead of time?
| |
| 13:40 | <vagrantc> yes
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> hmm
| |
| 13:40 | sounds impracitcal
| |
| 13:40 | :)
| |
| 13:40 | <vagrantc> it's the "old" way.
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> we can always check for its existence first
| |
| 13:40 | <vagrantc> the new way apparently has a little glitch
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> and populate as needed
| |
| 13:40 | whats the glitch?
| |
| 13:40 | <vagrantc> i just fixed it in ltspfs-trunk :)
| |
| 13:41 | <Gadi> gotcha
| |
| 13:41 | * vagrantc wants to try cdfs | |
| 13:42 | * Gadi wants to eliminate ltspfs-trunk/scripts/ldm | |
| 13:42 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 13:42 | <vagrantc> with debian experimental's ltsp, it doesn't do any localdev stuff from the ltsp-client* init scripts, it does it all from udev. so if you don't have any devices, ltspfsd won't start ... and thus the ltspfs_token won't be populated
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i don't see how you could eliminate the ltspfs_fstab handler in an independent way.
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> move to xinitrc.d
| |
| 13:43 | :)
| |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> since it needs to happen as part of login
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> no
| |
| 13:43 | as part of init
| |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> the delayed_mounter stuff can't.
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> no?
| |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> no.
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> ah, really?
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> that's what i'm sayin.
| |
| 13:44 | <Gadi> oh, I see
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> no! it can't!
| |
| 13:44 | <Gadi> ur right
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> i know!
| |
| 13:44 | <Gadi> my xinitrc version will be only for local ltspfsmounter
| |
| 13:44 | :)
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> and let me tell you another thing, Gadi!
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> hehe
| |
| 13:45 | <vagrantc> oh. you get it.
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> question: do we need to regenerate the ltspfs_token on every xinit?
| |
| 13:46 | can we set the cookie with udev
| |
| 13:46 | and just set the xatom on xinit?
| |
| 13:46 | <vagrantc> Gadi: then you get the bug i just fixed
| |
| 13:47 | <Gadi> right - but you start ltspfsd in udev now
| |
| 13:47 | so why not set the token right before starting it
| |
| 13:47 | <vagrantc> it does
| |
| 13:47 | but if no devices are plugged in, then nothing happens from udev, and then ldm (or whatever) doesn't have the authentication token
| |
| 13:47 | <Gadi> oh, I see
| |
| 13:48 | but, wait
| |
| 13:48 | ah - udev doesnt set the xatom...
| |
| 13:48 | so, the only way to do it with just udev is for udev to also set the xatom for the display
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> yes
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| 13:49 | <Gadi> which, I suppose gets uglier
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| 13:49 | <vagrantc> and i didn't want to get into that right now
| |
| 13:49 | <Gadi> :)
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| 13:50 | <vagrantc> i guess we could do it right there, though.
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| 13:50 | <ogra> sounds very insecure
| |
| 13:50 | <vagrantc> ogra: what part?
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| 13:50 | <ogra> (giving udev access to display)
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> for ltspfs, it's still pretty dependent on the ssh tunnel
| |
| 13:52 | <ogra> just a gut feeling though ...
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| 13:52 | <Gadi> and if not insecure, annoying ugly parse code
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| 13:53 | best to have the Xclient just set the token as you are doing (just in xinitrc.d)
| |
| 13:53 | <vagrantc> although we're already doing some DISPLAY parsing from udev...
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| 13:53 | <Gadi> yeah, but then you need to add xauth
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| 13:53 | parsing
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| 13:53 | <vagrantc> yeah. no fun.
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| 13:55 | * ogra wonders how valid all this will be anyway once we have dbus interaction | |
| 13:57 | * Gadi wonders when we'll have dbus interaction | |
| 13:57 | <ogra> i guess for our next major releases
| |
| 13:57 | all gnome applets will be 100% dbus next release ...
| |
| 13:58 | and kde is going the same path with kde4
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| 13:58 | SDuensin has joined #LTSP | |
| 13:58 | <SDuensin> Good afternoon.
| |
| 13:59 | <ogra> dbus becomes essential to get a usable desktop
| |
| 14:00 | <SDuensin> I built a new Ubuntu-based LTSP server today. My workstation PXE boots and finds it. I get the Ubuntu boot screen, the loading bar goes across, then my display goes blank with a cursor in the corner... I assume X is fubared. Where should I start my hunt?
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| 14:06 | <sbalneav> I'd start by setting the root password in the chroot, and logging in on tty1 and looking at the Xorg log.
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| 14:06 | The docs have some help in this
| |
| 14:06 | !doco
| |
| 14:06 | <ltspbot`> sbalneav: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
| |
| 14:07 | <SDuensin> Thanks, sbalneav
| |
| 14:07 | I'm reading the wiki now. Must have missed that.
| |
| 14:07 | * SDuensin DOES read docs! Really! | |
| 14:10 | <sbalneav> NP, upstream docs for LTSP5 are relatively new.
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| 14:12 | <SDuensin> I take care of the computers in our town's library. It's a mess.
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| 14:12 | They need LTSP!
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| 14:12 | <sbalneav> Libraries are ideal places to use LTSP
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| 14:13 | <SDuensin> This install is my test before I try and talk them into it. :-)
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| 14:13 | <sbalneav> What can you tell us about the client?
| |
| 14:14 | How much ram, what kind of video card, etc.
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| 14:14 | mccann has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:14 | <SDuensin> The machine that won't switch to X? It's fake. VMWare Fusion with 512M no "drives" of any kind.
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| 14:14 | RasKal has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:15 | <SDuensin> Ubuntu runs in it great. I do all my testing like that.
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| 14:15 | <sbalneav> Ah, you might need to specify the "vmware" XSERVER in lts.conf
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| 14:15 | <SDuensin> The LTSP server is a 1 GB VMware Server "machine".
| |
| 14:15 | <sbalneav> I beleive.
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| 14:16 | <SDuensin> Well, the lts.conf I was able to find says it's not the one to use anymore. :-/
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| 14:17 | <ogra> but it points you to the place where to use it now :)
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| 14:17 | hanthana has quit IRC | |
| 14:17 | <SDuensin> Yea, and there's no file there. Just make one up?
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| 14:17 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:18 | <SDuensin> I can do that. :-)
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| 14:22 | Raskalit0 has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:23 | <SDuensin> Doesn't seem to matter. I even set SCREEN_07=shell.
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| 14:23 | <ogra> did you set a default section ?
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| 14:23 | [default]
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| 14:23 | <SDuensin> Yea. That's all I have.
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| 14:23 | <ogra> SCREEN_02=shell
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| 14:23 | SCREEN_07=ldm
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| 14:24 | then look at /var/log/xorg.0.log on next boot
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| 14:24 | (on tty2)
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| 14:24 | kharloss has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:24 | <SDuensin> Trying. (Thanks, BTW!)
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| 14:26 | It's just hung. I can't get to tty2.
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| 14:26 | <ogra> weird
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| 14:26 | <SDuensin> One thing I had to change... I turned off the DHCP server on the LTSP server. I have my own elsewhere.
| |
| 14:26 | * ogra has only experience with virtualbox ... never tried vmware | |
| 14:27 | <SDuensin> I couldn't get VB to PXE.
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| 14:27 | <Raskalit0> Hello
| |
| 14:27 | X0d_of_N0d has quit IRC | |
| 14:27 | <ogra> well, running server *and* client in vbox
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| 14:27 | for development
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| 14:27 | <SDuensin> Yea, but how'd you boot the client?
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| 14:27 | Hi Raskalit0
| |
| 14:27 | <ogra> works fine with an internal vb network
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| 14:28 | <Raskalit0> question from a newbie (in IRC also) in LTSP. Is it the right place to ask for hardware compatibility issue?
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| 14:28 | <johnny> SDuensin, tun/tap devices
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| 14:28 | <Raskalit0> Hi SDuensin
| |
| 14:28 | <johnny> and using host interface networking
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| 14:28 | Raskalit0, possibly..
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| 14:28 | <Raskalit0> Ta
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| 14:29 | <SDuensin> johnny, yea, but VirtualBox won't PXE boot.
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| 14:30 | <johnny> it will if you do those things
| |
| 14:30 | <Raskalit0> I am looking to buy a couple of Asus P3-P5G33 Barebone Slim PC, adding 1GB RAM and a proc. Did anyone was successful in PXE booting (e.g. Ubuntu) with these boxes?
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| 14:30 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:30 | <johnny> Raskalit0, never heard of people having it.. but read the specs.. if it says the nics pxe boot. it will work
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| 14:30 | 1GB ram is alot tho
| |
| 14:31 | unless you're running local apps
| |
| 14:31 | those are probably a b it more expensive than necessary
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| 14:31 | <Raskalit0> Yes 1GB RAM is a lot I know, but we could add later a HD for dual PXE and local boot.
| |
| 14:31 | <johnny> ok
| |
| 14:31 | well.. we don't know the specs of that nic
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| 14:31 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> Raskalit0 have you seen DisklessWorkstations.com?
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| 14:31 | <johnny> you're gonna have to read
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| 14:31 | or send them an email
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| 14:32 | if the nic is onboard.. it probably will
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| 14:32 | <SDuensin> OK, going to VB with some kind of etherboot image. Seems VMware is mad. I set up a physical box and it came right up!
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| 14:32 | <Raskalit0> The motherboard is a Asus P5K-VM. NIC info, i cannot find it....
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| 14:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> ok, so what executes ltsp-localappsd on the client?
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| 14:33 | <johnny> Raskalit0, send them an email if you want to be sure
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| 14:33 | _UsUrPeR_, ltsp-localapps :)
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| 14:33 | <SDuensin> Thanks guys. :-)
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| 14:33 | <johnny> it's in doc/examples _UsUrPeR_ on ubuntu, if you're using that
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| 14:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> johnny: I mean the ltsp-localappsd process.
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| 14:33 | <Raskalit0> Disklessworstations.com zes I know. But I need a shop which is in France (it is for a school in France and I have to have the bill in Euros, and preferably from France)
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| 14:33 | <_UsUrPeR_> johnny: fedora
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| 14:34 | <johnny> oh.. it's executed the same everywhere..
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| 14:34 | <Raskalit0> jonny: yes, good idea... if they are replying, will see. ta for advise.
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| 14:34 | <SDuensin> Anyone use KDE on this thing? Or is that a Bad Idea?
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| 14:34 | <johnny> Raskalit0, but most likely, they will pxe boot.. i've yet to see a mobo that doesn't
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| 14:35 | <Raskalit0> johnny, it is on board NIC
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| 14:35 | <johnny> well.. then you have a good chance
| |
| 14:35 | but we can't say for sure
| |
| 14:35 | <Raskalit0> johnny: as written when I joined the chan: I am a newbie :-/
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| 14:35 | I will dig a bit a if I am able to have the NIC info I will get back
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| 14:36 | Ta for help... see you in a while
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| 14:36 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, i think ltsp-localapps executes ltsp-localappsd..
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> not executes, really... more it triggers ltsp-localappsd
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| 14:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> johnny: on the client, there is a constant-running process called "/bin/sh /usr/bin/ltsp-localappsd"
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| 14:37 | X0d_of_N0d has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:37 | <_UsUrPeR_> howver, I cannot seem to find the actual process that starts the localappsd process on boot.
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| 14:38 | <johnny> _UsUrPeR_, it's magic .. duh
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| 14:38 | * _UsUrPeR_ flails his arms like Kermit the Frog | |
| 14:38 | <ogra> isnt that S01-localapps ?
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| 14:38 | in the ldm rc scripts
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| 14:38 | <_UsUrPeR_> ogra: ok, lemme check that
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| 14:39 | <johnny> ogra, stop spoiling the fun
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| 14:39 | you're taking all the "magic" out of it
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| 14:39 | <_UsUrPeR_> >_<
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| 14:40 | thanks ogra
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| 14:41 | RasKal has quit IRC | |
| 14:42 | Raskalit0 has left #ltsp | |
| 14:42 | Raskalit0 has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:42 | <Raskalit0> Back
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| 14:42 | kharloss has quit IRC | |
| 14:43 | <Raskalit0> | |
| 14:44 | Any known issues with these NIC re. LTSP? Please
| |
| 14:44 | Or could you point me to a hardware NIC compatiblity list?
| |
| 14:44 | Thanks
| |
| 14:44 | dmaran has left #ltsp | |
| 14:46 | <Raskalit0> | |
| 14:46 | <sbalneav> Raskalit0: ltsp uses the ditro's kernel, so depending on if you're using Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora or SuSE, if that distro supports the controller, then ltsp will too.
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| 14:47 | <Raskalit0> sbalneav: planning ot use Ubuntu, it si for a primary school....nice intercae etc... I will look at ubuntu then. Thanks a lot.
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| 14:47 | * Lns gives 3 cheers for "awesome integration"! | |
| 14:48 | <Raskalit0> Bye to the chan...
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| 14:48 | Raskalit0 has left #ltsp | |
| 14:49 | <ogra> Lns, !
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| 14:50 | Lns, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPLocalAppSetup mind pulling it into the main wikipage ? (could also need some fleshing out)
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| 14:51 | <Lns> ogra: !
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| 14:51 | sure, no worries
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| 14:51 | <ogra> :)
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| 14:52 | <sbalneav> This should probably go into the manual as well
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| 14:52 | * Lns needs to get an ibex network running so he can be up to date on all this flashy new stuff =) | |
| 14:52 | <ogra> sbalneav, its ubuntu specific
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| 14:52 | <rjune> ogra: does MOTU require a jaunty system?
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| 14:53 | <Lns> Actually is this for Intrepid only? Or will it work in hardy?
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| 14:53 | <ogra> rjune, a jaunty chroot is enough
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| 14:53 | Eghie has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:53 | <rjune> 'k
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| 14:53 | <ogra> Lns, wont work in hardy
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| 14:53 | <Lns> ok
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| 14:53 | * Lns will put the version specific header in | |
| 14:53 | <sbalneav> ogra: Well, it just doesn't work YET in the other distros
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| 14:53 | right?
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| 14:54 | <ogra> sbalneav, debian will have it installed by defualt in /usr/bin ... i think fedory too
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| 14:54 | *fedora
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| 14:54 | (lenny that is and FC 10)
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| 14:55 | i refused to do that back in intrepid until we have a proper transparent menu implementation
| |
| 14:55 | <sbalneav> ah, so now that we do, in future it will just "be" in /usr/bin.
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| 14:56 | <ogra> right
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| 14:56 | <sbalneav> ok
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| 14:56 | <ogra> thats rather for admins that also will reorder the users menu manually to replace the existing firefox entry
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| 14:56 | <sbalneav> Well, I'll just add a section, and put it in /usr/bin, and skip the copy step
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| 14:57 | <Lns> ogra: done.. since the page is immutable, can you possibly add the following standard header to the page? - '''This wiki page applies to Ubuntu Version(s): 8.10'''
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| 14:57 | <vagrantc> debian lenny doesn't have localapps stuff
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| 14:58 | <ogra> vagrantc, oh ?
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| 14:58 | i thought you added it
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| 14:58 | Lns, done
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| 14:59 | <vagrantc> ogra: no, just the packages in experimental
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| 14:59 | <ogra> ah
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| 14:59 | <vagrantc> localapps didn't even exist when lenny froze
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| 14:59 | <Lns> ogra: ty!
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| 14:59 | <ogra> ah, right
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| 15:00 | <vagrantc> and of course, debian's been hovering at around 50 release-critical bugs for two months now.
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| 15:00 | * Lns is planning on sponsoring a professional video production regarding Linux/LTSP, specifically for education/school use, hopefully in 03/2009 | |
| 15:00 | <ogra> ugh, still ?
| |
| 15:03 | spectra has quit IRC | |
| 15:03 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 15:05 | <Lns> I'm in the pre-planning stages of the video I want to have produced.. just wanted to put a shout out to anyone interested in being in the video, if your'e interested, let me know and i'll see what can be put together. I want it to be in somewhat of a documentary / History channel type format, and it will focus on the technology and not my company specifically
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| 15:05 | I'd love to have some of you in there
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| 15:07 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:07 | <ogra> jammcq needs to be in it :)
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| 15:07 | he's *the brain*
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| 15:08 | and sbalneav as "the fairy of nghtshifts" :)
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| 15:09 | <sbalneav> I thought I was the boothbabe :)
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| 15:09 | <ogra> during the day ...
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| 15:10 | ... but at full moon a little golden star at the end of a magic wand grows out of your right hand ...
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| 15:10 | :)
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| 15:10 | <laga> ogra: what has been seen cannot be unseen
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| 15:10 | <ogra> lol
| |
| 15:10 | * jammcq doesn't want to hear anything about something growing in sbalneav's hand | |
| 15:11 | kharloss has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:11 | <jammcq> oh sorry, did I actually say that outloud ?
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| 15:11 | <ogra> :)
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| 15:11 | <sbalneav> I seem to have lost my internal monologue
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| 15:12 | <Lns> hehehe
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| 15:12 | * sbalneav pictures himself with a pink tutu, little wings, and a maaaaaaaagical wand. | |
| 15:12 | <Lns> ok, so jammq, ogra, sbalneav in a bathing suit.
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| 15:12 | lol
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| 15:12 | beat me to it
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| 15:13 | * vagrantc suspects they'd need at least 3 suits. | |
| 15:13 | <warren> ogra: who is your gstreamer maintainer?
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| 15:13 | <ogra> vagrantc, spandex ftw
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| 15:14 | warren, lool does a lot on it ... but also seb128
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| 15:14 | <Lns> In all, I'll have more info when the video company gets back to me. Hopefully I can get everyone in it that wants to be in it, but i need to worry about budget too =)
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| 15:14 | <ogra> warren, no chance to get either of us the next ten days though ...
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| 15:14 | * ogra us actually packing bags atm | |
| 15:14 | <ogra> *is
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| 15:15 | warren, but we work *very* close with fluendo
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| 15:15 | <Lns> oh yeah, jaunty @ google is next week eh?
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| 15:15 | <rjune> ogra: I plan to ship tomorrow
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| 15:15 | <ogra> rjune, cool !
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| 15:15 | <rjune> when are you schedule to be in?
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| 15:15 | <ogra> i touch ground in SFO at 16:30 local time there iirc ...
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| 15:15 | so early evening
| |
| 15:16 | <Lns> ogra: do you think it'd be worth it for a non-programmer lowly sysadmin type to go, even for just one day?
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| 15:16 | <ogra> Lns, sure, to have a look and meet people its surely worth it
| |
| 15:17 | <Lns> right on..i can just drive down as SFO is like 1.5hrs away from me anyway =)
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| 15:17 | and google is just a bit further down
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| 15:18 | <ogra> yeah, we stay in sunnyvale though
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| 15:18 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> Lns: what company are you with
| |
| 15:18 | * Lns thinks he should meet for the beer | |
| 15:19 | <ogra> cant say yet which google building we'll be in
| |
| 15:19 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM_: my own, logicalnetworking.net - haven't registered yet thou
| |
| 15:19 | <CAN-o-SPAM_> jordan, correct?
| |
| 15:20 | <Lns> CAN-o-SPAM_: yup
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| 15:20 | (one of the jordans here anyway ;) )
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| 15:20 | <ogra> seems a very popular name in the us
| |
| 15:21 | <Lns> not too much.. i've only met a handful of Jordans.. and many like to remember me as "jason", "gordon" or "jared" for some reason.
| |
| 15:23 | <_UsUrPeR_> !doco
| |
| 15:23 | <ltspbot`> _UsUrPeR_: "doco" is you can find the link to the latest, and most current upstream documentation at: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LtspDocumentationUpstream
| |
| 15:24 | ogra_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:24 | * Lns wonders when the best day to come will be to meet ppl and not get in the way of BOF sessions | |
| 15:24 | ogra has quit IRC | |
| 15:24 | * ogra_ doesnt know if access to http://summit.ubuntu.com is open already | |
| 15:24 | <ogra_> it has the schedules
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| 15:25 | ogra_ is now known as ogra | |
| 15:26 | Blinny has quit IRC | |
| 15:30 | <ogra> Lns, can you access that page ?
| |
| 15:30 | <Lns> hold on..phone w/video ppl
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| 15:40 | wow..videos are expensive =p
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| 15:40 | ogra: going to register now..but yeah i can get to the page
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| 15:41 | <ogra> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/mobile/ has my schedule
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| 15:43 | <Lns> ooo, trip to computer museum on wed? I'm so there!
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| 15:44 | <ogra> you should rther join one of the jam sessions ;)
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| 15:44 | (tue or fri evening)
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| 15:44 | Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:45 | <Lns> jam sessions? Should I bring my bass?? =)
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| 15:45 | <ogra> only if you come friday ... i think the PA is ordered only for that
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| 15:46 | or bring your amp with you
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| 15:46 | <Lns> wow, i thought i was being sarcastic
| |
| 15:46 | I can do friday i'm sure, that'd be a good day to drive down there, not much traffic
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| 15:47 | <ogra> we have some awesome ex-pro musicians with us the canonical/ubuntu jam sessions are legendary
| |
| 15:47 | <Lns> wow..well i'm not pro, but that sounds like fun =)
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| 15:47 | <ogra> it is !
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| 15:49 | <Lns> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-sru-process-streamline - NICE.
| |
| 15:50 | anyway, sorry for being so OT
| |
| 15:51 | * ogra doesnt mind :) | |
| 15:51 | <ogra> the other 90 might though :)
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| 15:51 | alekibango has quit IRC | |
| 15:51 | <Lns> all those non-ubu folk can kiss my grits! =p
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| 15:52 | * Lns ducks | |
| 15:52 | <ogra> shhh ... warren could hear you
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| 15:52 | <Lns> hehe.. ok i'm registered for Friday
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| 15:52 | chrisinajar is now known as chrisinanoffice | |
| 15:52 | <ogra> cool
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| 15:53 | <Lns> now I'm OTL, bbl
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| 15:54 | <ogra> jammcq, didnt you say you come ?
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| 15:54 | <jammcq> ah, sadly I won't be there
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| 15:54 | :(
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| 15:54 | <ogra> :(
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| 15:55 | alkisg1 has quit IRC | |
| 15:55 | <ogra> i would have pulled you on stage at the jam session together with Lns and stgraber we would have sung a tribute to the "the fairy of nightshifts" :)
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| 15:55 | <jammcq> man, that would be so perfect
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| 15:55 | <ogra> (i'm sure there is a recording)
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| 16:05 | <Gadi> ogra: what is the "adm" group?
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| 16:05 | <ogra> Gadi, used for logfiles
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| 16:05 | <Gadi> ah, ok
| |
| 16:05 | so that is correct
| |
| 16:06 | to have log files owned by that group
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| 16:08 | scayford has joined #ltsp | |
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| 16:09 | <marcondes> Stopping DHCP server dhcpd3 [fail]
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| 16:09 | popey has left #ltsp | |
| 16:09 | <marcondes> whats taht?
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| 16:09 | <scayford> If I run ltsp-update-image while clients are up and running are they going to get booted off?
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| 16:10 | six2one has quit IRC | |
| 16:11 | <marcondes> some brazilian guy here?
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| 16:11 | or girl...:)
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| 16:13 | ...i dont think so
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| 16:13 | damn
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| 16:15 | <johnny> scayford, no
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| 16:15 | <scayford> johnny, do they just connect to the new image or do they retain the old image somehow until reboot?
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| 16:16 | <johnny> retain i guess
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| 16:17 | <scayford> Thanks.
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| 16:17 | marcondes has left #ltsp | |
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| 16:19 | <ogra> scayford, nbd-server keeps the old one in ram
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| 16:19 | it serves the new one if your client is rebooted
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| 16:19 | (and a new connection is made)
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| 16:20 | <scayford> ogra, I take it that it's reasonably safe to do while I've got folks logged in, then?
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| 16:21 | <ogra> yes
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| 16:21 | <scayford> excellent.
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| 16:22 | <laga> ogra: i don't think it keeps the old one in ram - it won't be physically deleted because the nbd-server processes still got a file handle on the old image
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| 16:22 | IMHO, AFAIK etc
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| 16:22 | <ogra> laga, yeah, right :)
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| 16:23 | well, its going on to be served to active connections ... thats what counts :)
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| 16:23 | <scayford> makes sense.
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| 16:39 | <Gadi> so, here's a new one
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| 16:40 | I've got a connection with LDM_DIRECTX turned off. I go to change a launcher icon, the progress bar goes half way and stops
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| 16:40 | but, if I move my mouse, the progress bar continues
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| 16:40 | stop moving mouse progress bar stops
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| 16:40 | move mouse, progress bar moves
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| 16:40 | weird
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| 16:42 | <vagrantc> Gadi: you're not using the heisenburg uncertainty progress bar, are you?
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| 16:43 | * vagrantc implemented a --randomprogress for lessdisks's progressbars | |
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| 16:45 | <Gadi> yeah, well - I am slowly but surely tracking down potential slownesses
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| 16:45 | wondering if the RAID array is healthy
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| 16:45 | dunno
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| 16:45 | <ogra> thats induced slowness .... not potential
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| 16:46 | (if it's bound to mous movements)
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| 16:46 | *mouse
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> well, I dont know what interactions gvfs and ssh display updating etc have
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| 16:46 | but, I get the feeling that if gvfs is slow, lots of things get slow
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| 16:46 | really quickly
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| 16:46 | :)
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| 16:47 | and a degraded raid array may be a cause
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| 16:47 | <ogra> unless you move the mouse :)
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| 16:47 | <Gadi> right
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| 16:47 | :)
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| 16:47 | isnt that weird?
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| 16:47 | now, I had to disable the gnome-settings-daemon mouse plugin
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| 16:47 | in order for g-s-d to load properly
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| 16:48 | I wonder if it is related
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| 16:48 | * ogra wonders if the mouse-o-meter gvfs interaction plugin he sneaked in secretly might be at fault | |
| 16:48 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 16:48 | <ogra> sounds like
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| 16:48 | what kind of mouse ? USB ?
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> yes
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| 16:48 | <ogra> ps2 ?
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| 16:48 | <Gadi> USB
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| 16:48 | <ogra> hmm, i wonder if it has to do with your udev hackery
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> :P
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| 16:49 | ok, gotta run
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| 16:49 | got the call
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| 16:49 | <scayford> you wouldn't be running out of entropy would you?
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| 16:49 | <ogra> (since i havent seen it during intrpid testing)
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| 16:49 | <Gadi> ciao
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| 16:49 | <ogra> ciao
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| 16:50 | <warren> ogra: We figured out the common pidgin crasher, it is complex. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=470000
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| 16:50 | ogra: might want to point your people
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| 16:50 | ogra: gstreamer's pulse sink really sucks
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| 16:50 | <ogra> warren, will do ... i'll meet them face to face tomorrow
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| 16:51 | thanks a lot !
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| 16:53 | <_UsUrPeR_> can someone point me towards where I can find an old specific kernel version?
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| 16:53 | * _UsUrPeR_ is looking for 2.6.26.6-79.fc9.i586 | |
| 16:56 | ltsppbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:56 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: why do you need that specific version?
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| 16:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> warren: institutional limitations ;)
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| 16:58 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/kernel/ you'll find everything from the beginning of time here
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| 16:58 | time began April 2007 apparently
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| 16:58 | <_UsUrPeR_> lol. good enough
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| 16:59 | <warren> _UsUrPeR_: if you need the old kernel due to a bug, please write a bug report?
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| 16:59 | gotta commute now
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| 16:59 | bbl
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| 19:11 | <lippy> I'm having trouble getting ltsp-build-client to work after upgrading my system from Ubuntu 8.04 to 8.10. Is this the appropriate place to try and get some help?
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| 19:18 | lipinski has joined #ltsp | |
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| 19:20 | <lipinski> Can anyone help troubleshoot LTSP problem after upgrade to Ubuntu 8.10?
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| 19:25 | babyhuey has left #ltsp | |
| 19:25 | <johnny> lipinski, just ask your qestion
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| 19:29 | <lipinski> ltsp-build-client fails after Ubuntu upgrade to 8.10. Removed entire /opt/ltsp dir and ltsp-build-client still fails. Problem with dpkg trying to configure hal. Totally stuck.
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| 19:31 | japerry has quit IRC | |
| 19:33 | <lipinski> Cannot get any LTSP chroot built with Ubuntu 8.10.
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| 19:38 | <johnny> what does it say?
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| 19:39 | !paste
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| 19:39 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "paste" is try !pastebot
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| 19:39 | <johnny> !pastebot
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| 19:39 | <ltspbot`> johnny: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
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| 19:39 | <johnny> paste it there..
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| 19:42 | <ltsppbot> "lipinski" pasted "ltsp-build-client error on 8.10" (23 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/125
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| 19:43 | <johnny> never seen that
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| 19:44 | perhaps one of the ubuntu folks can help you when they come around
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| 19:45 | <lipinski> johnny: yes - it does seem ubuntu specific. There seems to be a handful of underlying problems, i.e., dbus force-reload fails because it's not running; and then all the polkit problems - which seem to be related to GID differences between the server and the chroot.
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| 19:46 | <johnny> it shouldn't matter. .because polkit shoudl be running on the server
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| 19:46 | <lipinski> Can I build a different distro client on an Ubuntu server?
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| 19:47 | <johnny> lipinski, no
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| 19:47 | or not easily enough
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| 19:47 | lipinski, polkit should be running on your server
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| 19:47 | <lipinski> I thought so too - but ltsp-build-client is trying to configure hal within the chroot. hal.postinst seems to be trying to force-reload dbus and polkit-auth changes within the chroot as well
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| 19:47 | <johnny> is dbus running on the server?
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| 19:47 | <lipinski> yes
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| 19:47 | <johnny> hmm.. i'm confused then
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| 19:47 | i did a fresh install on 8.10
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| 19:48 | and it was fine
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| 19:48 | <lipinski> I was trying to avoid a fresh install. This was after an upgrade from 8.04 to 8.10
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| 19:48 | <johnny> no.. i'm just saying
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| 19:48 | that it worked for me from that
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| 19:48 | and also it works from my upgrade of 8.04 to 8.10
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| 19:48 | so.. both cases worked for me
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| 19:48 | <lipinski> really!?
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| 19:48 | <johnny> i've never seen anybody come into this room with the problem you are having
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| 19:48 | and i idle in here often
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| 19:49 | not saying that it hasn't happened.. but im idling in here around 12 hours a day
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| 19:49 | <lipinski> I've opened a bug on launchpad and started a topic in the Ubuntu forums - no responses.
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| 19:49 | <johnny> hmm.. well the ubuntu dev should be able to give you an idea
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| 19:49 | when they come around
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| 19:49 | but it is very late in europe
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| 19:49 | i'd suggest trying back during european or usa daylight hours
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| 19:50 | they will definitely be able to point you in the right direction
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| 19:50 | <lipinski> I'm an IRC newbie. Should I just come back then and repost my issue again?
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| 19:50 | <johnny> yes
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| 19:50 | well..
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| 19:50 | better for you not to come back
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| 19:50 | and just not leave in the first place :)
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| 19:50 | if that is possible
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| 19:50 | in case some ubuntu folks happen to occur
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| 19:51 | <johnny> i'll repost your issue if i see em before you are about
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| 19:51 | and you can just read your backlog
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| 19:51 | <lipinski> I'll be on here for a while tonight (US time), but have to shutdown.
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| 20:16 | <haz1> hi everyone, i'm still using ltsp 4.2 and am planning an upgrade soon but am not sure if my main issue will be resolved or not - basically LocalDevices work just fine, but user home directories are also shared via samba and when accessing ~/LocalDevices/whatever under Windows the directory always shows up blank. Is there a problem accessing localdevices via samba?
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| 20:34 | <robbie_> sbalneav: hi scotty
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| 21:37 | <haz1> anyone awake in here?
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| 21:39 | <alkisg> !ask
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| 21:39 | <ltspbot`> alkisg: Error: "ask" is not a valid command.
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