IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 7 June 2014 (all times are UTC)
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| 14:56 | <Asterisks> So, is anyone here?
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> Nah... all are out for coffee
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| 15:28 | !ask
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| 15:28 | <ltsp`> ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.
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| 15:30 | <Asterisks> Thanks sherlock, I actually didn't have a question persay. I'm planning on presenting an LTSP cluster as a low cost (small budget) solution to their outdated windows XP system and wanted to get in here incase I come across anything I need help with
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| 15:30 | maybe see if anyone here has experience in a similar situation and had any words of wisdom
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> Experiences vary... There are clusters of 5.000 clients, or there are 1.000 labs of 10 clients each...
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| 15:32 | <Asterisks> LTSP cluster for.. ~100 computers (entire network, small school)
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| 15:33 | <alkisg> How much RAM on the clients? I.e. will the be LTSP fat clients or LTSP thin clients?
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| 15:35 | <Asterisks> gunna say thin. most of the system hasn't been upgaded since I was there in kindergarten (I'm 17 now)
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| 15:37 | <cyberorg> alkisg, hi :) where are clusters of 5000 clients?!!
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| 15:37 | <alkisg> If they're pentium 4, you could buy them 1 GB DDR-1 RAM and use them as fat clients
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| 15:37 | cyberorg: revolution linux mentioned that number
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| 15:38 | I think it was the main reason for ltsp-cluster...
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| 15:39 | Asterisks: for fat clients, one good server with a few bonded NICs will suffice for 100 clients. For thin clients, you'd need a cluster, yeah
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| 15:39 | <cyberorg> any idea if they actually implemented that kind of cluster in single location or that was just a theoretical numbers we can do with cluster
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> Fat clients are preferred by schools, as they better support multimedia apps
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| 15:39 | cyberorg: sorry I do know it was an actual, not theoretical number, but I don't know any other details, haven't asked
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| 15:40 | <cyberorg> k :)
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| 15:41 | <Asterisks> my reason for the cluster is also redundancy
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> Asterisks: put 1 GB RAM to a single client. Install Ubuntu 12.04 with gnome-fallback or something similar into it. See if it fits their needs. If so, you only need RAM+one server
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| 15:41 | Redudancy is not good with thin clients, with fat it's way better
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| 15:44 | <cyberorg> we default to fatclient as well, https://plus.google.com/photos/106376068960352243212/albums/6017982929155268193?banner=pwa
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| 15:44 | Asterisks, here is your sales pitch http://cyberorg.co.in/myscool/features/
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| 15:45 | <Asterisks> [2] Requires PC with minimum 2GB RAM and PXE boot capable LAN
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| 15:47 | I'm sceptical that the machines they currently have will work as fat clients, and having to upgrade them defeats the point of the system
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| 15:48 | <cyberorg> Asterisks, p4 with 1G ram also works, but we recommend 2G for fatclient, experience is much better
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| 15:49 | for really low end hardware there is tinycore http://lizards.opensuse.org/2014/05/31/tiny-core-kiwi-ltsp-thin-client/
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| 15:49 | <Asterisks> any reason you do openSUSE vs ubuntu/edubuntu?
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| 15:51 | <cyberorg> Asterisks, i do both, but prefer opensuse
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| 15:52 | <Asterisks> any reason why, or just personal preference?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> Asterisks: you'll upgrade the "system" anyway, either with money for good servers or with money for ram for the clients. I'm just saying that the latter usually has much better results.
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| 15:52 | <cyberorg> Asterisks, https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Why_openSUSE
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| 15:56 | Asterisks, in myscool server we include ubuntu as well, one of my clients have ltsp cluster with mix of ubuntu 10.04 and opensuse 13.1
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| 15:57 | <Asterisks> a mix? which one do the clients boot, or is there an option?
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| 15:57 | <cyberorg> some ubuntu some suse :)
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| 15:57 | yes there's an option like in the image i posted ^^
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| 15:59 | <Asterisks> hmm
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| 15:59 | <cyberorg> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/dV00AL56Nh7bfmrBaf0IxJLibqc1a1_DCBGkvQ6M1d8=w627-h471-no
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| 16:00 | <Asterisks> as someone who hasn't used openSUSE before, what kind of curve would I have to setup a system like yours
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| 16:01 | <cyberorg> get https://news.opensuse.org/2014/05/22/gnome-classic-edition-of-opensuse-education/ boot it up in a VM
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| 16:01 | <Asterisks> I've had some experience with local LTSP testing, but this would be my first real deployment if I can get my pitch accepted
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| 16:01 | <cyberorg> follow this https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:LTSP_quick_start_12.2_Edu
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| 16:02 | <Asterisks> any special setup for the boot options?
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| 16:03 | I'm assuming yes
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| 16:03 | <cyberorg> depends what you want to add to it
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| 16:03 | tinycore adds itself to the boot menu once the package is installed
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| 16:04 | for ubuntu livecd you'd have to add it yourself, for ubuntu fatclient system we have VMs running and entry in boot menu points the clients to the right server
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| 16:05 | <Asterisks> I like the system you've got, I'd still want a cluster together but allowing computers with enough power to boot as fat clienst would be a good idea
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| 16:05 | <cyberorg> you don't really need cluster for 100 clients
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| 16:06 | as alkisg said, bonded nics would be good enough, and get ssd for ltsp images
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| 16:07 | * cyberorg heads home | |
| 16:09 | <Asterisks> Okay, I'll be here for a while. I'm going to go do some more research
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| 16:09 | Glad I came and talked to you guys
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| 16:13 | <alkisg> Asterisks: so, you're a student trying to convince a school to change its OS? Were you assigned to do that by some teacher, or was it your own idea?
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| 16:14 | <Asterisks> I just mentioned it to the superintendent who was extremely interested in it
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| 16:14 | and I'm no longer a student, and I havn't been for years now
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> Sorry I thought you said you were 17
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| 16:15 | <Asterisks> I am, It's a grade school
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| 16:15 | I am A student, not at the grade school...
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| 16:15 | <alkisg> Grade school == primary school?
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| 16:16 | <Asterisks> yea
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| 16:16 | <alkisg> Yeah ok then makes sense.. :)
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| 16:16 | Here are a few schools in Greece using LTSP, to help you convince them: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/widget-map/?location=Greece
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| 16:16 | <Asterisks> yeah, there are even several in the US I've found on the edubuntu site
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> They should be more than 1000 now...
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| 16:17 | <Asterisks> there should be, but there aren't (at least not from what I can find)
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| 16:17 | <alkisg> I mean the greek ones
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| 16:17 | <Asterisks> oh
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| 16:17 | probably
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| 16:18 | quebec, canda's entire public school system uses ltsp from what I can tell
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| 16:18 | thousands upon thousands of clients
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| 16:21 | I'd like to have an external fileserver for all the users files and an LDAP server running somewhere (could be on the LTSP server) to allow a single login for the computers and the web filter
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| 16:23 | <alkisg> An external fileserver perfectly matches the fat clients setup :)
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| 16:24 | But for thin clients, it's just a bottleneck..
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| 16:29 | <Asterisks> any way to force a computer to either thin/fat client depending on specs?
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| 16:29 | or set it by their MAC adddress or similar?
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| 16:35 | <alkisg> You can do any of that
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| 16:35 | The default RAM threshold for thin/fat is 400 MB
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| 16:36 | And of course you can do it by mac
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| 16:37 | <Asterisks> laptops.
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| 16:38 | I've seen you can do a grub/image system to boot laptops, and then have the OS check for updates of the image off the LTSP server
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| 16:38 | I'm assuming a VPN would come into play for outside the network to access the files
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> x2go for remote sessions, ssh for plain files
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| 16:41 | !local-boot
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| 16:41 | <ltsp`> local-boot: If you want LTSP fat clients on a low-speed network, you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img and use this command line in pxelinux.cfg: APPEND ro initrd=ltsp/i386/initrd.img init=/sbin/init-ltsp root=/dev/sda1 rootflags=ro loop=/Boot/LTSP/i386.img; IPAPPEND 3
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| 16:41 | <alkisg> And that one for laptops ^
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| 16:42 | <Asterisks> booting wirelessly?
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> No, wifi is too slow for root disk
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| 16:44 | <Asterisks> "you can put i386.img on e.g. C:\Boot\LTSP\i386.img " then have grub installed locally with an entry to boot that
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| 16:44 | ?
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| 16:45 | <alkisg> Yes, either grub or syslinux or pxelinux or whatever
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| 16:45 | <Asterisks> okay, great
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| 16:46 | sorry about all this, but this is more info than I've found in the last week..
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| 16:46 | LTSP isn't the greatest as far as external documentation
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> True
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| 16:54 | <Asterisks> how big a server am I looking at for all 100 clients here?
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| 16:58 | <alkisg> For fats, any retail pc. For thins, maybe 5 servers...
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| 16:59 | <Asterisks> mix, probably about 1/2 and 1/2
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> !server-ram
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| 17:10 | <ltsp`> server-ram: LTSP server RAM *really* depends on the usage. But anyway here's an approximation: Server RAM in MB = 1500 + 30*number-of-fat-clients + 300*number-of-thin-clients
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| 17:12 | <Asterisks> ~23GB ram
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| 17:13 | <Asterisks> hey meal
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> And maybe 300 points of CPU for every client... e.g. http://www.passmark.com/cpubenchmark/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-3770K+%40+3.50GHz ==> 9600/300 => 32 clients
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| 17:17 | And maybe 50 mbps for each thin client, e.g. gigabit => 20 clients max, without much multimedia etc
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| 17:17 | !flash
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| 17:17 | <ltsp`> flash: Yes, flash sucks. An HD full screen 30 fps video needs 2.5 Gbps bandwidth (1920×1080×4×30)! Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try some flash replacing plugin like http://linterna-magica.nongnu.org
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> For the full experience, you'd need 2.5 gbps for *each* client :D
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| 17:18 | That's why people move to fats
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| 17:19 | They don't need ram/cpu on the server, and have only modest network bandwidth requirements
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| 17:19 | <Asterisks> yeah, wow
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| 17:49 | <Asterisks> !commands
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| 17:49 | <ltsp`> add, addchair, alert, alias, announce, announce add, announce list, announce remove, any, apply, apropos, at, ban add, ban list, ban remove, capabilities, capability add, capability list, capability remove, capability set, capability setdefault, capability unset, change, changename, channel, channels, cmd, commands, config, countargs, cpu, ctime, cycle, default, defaultcapability, defaultplugin, dehalfop, deletemeeting, (2 more messages)
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| 17:49 | <Asterisks> !cpu
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| 17:49 | <ltsp`> I have taken 3663.59 seconds of user time and 123.00 seconds of system time, for a total of 3786.59 seconds of CPU time. My children have taken 0.00 seconds of user time and 0.00 seconds of system time for a total of 0.00 seconds of CPU time. I'm taking up 24804 kB of memory.
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| 20:30 | <Asterisks> dum de dum
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| 20:39 | <Hyperbyte> Oh hi.
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| 20:39 | <Asterisks> hi
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| 20:39 | how are you?
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| 20:39 | <Hyperbyte> Pretty good, all considering.
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| 20:40 | I've just been locked in in the central library of Rotterdam for about half an hour. :-)
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| 20:40 | Which, you know, is always fun.
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| 20:40 | How about you?
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| 20:40 | <Asterisks> pretty good, just been playing games and researching LTSP stuff
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| 20:43 | presenting LTSP to a local grade school as a cheaper way to upgrade their system on tuesday
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| 20:46 | <Hyperbyte> Nice one!
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| 20:46 | Presenting a radio show tomorrow. :)
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| 20:47 | <Asterisks> nice, what about?
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| 20:55 | <Hyperbyte> Sports. :)
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| 20:55 | Local football tournament.
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| 20:55 | <Asterisks> nice, nice
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