IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 17 December 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:11 | <pr0cess0r> is it normal that firefox dont detect the adobe flash player ?
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| 00:12 | <rjune_> it is if you don't have the flash player installed
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| 00:12 | <pr0cess0r> i installed it from adobe web site un DEB package
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| 00:13 | but when i load a page it show me the plug-in thing
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| 00:14 | <rjune_> sounds like firefox can't find it
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| 00:14 | it's been a long time since I've had to think about flash
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| 00:14 | ubuntu has it packaged up and working
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| 00:15 | <johnny> maybe firefox is using the swfdec or gnash plugin by default instead
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| 00:15 | <pr0cess0r> i try gnath and it dont wokr on the site i try
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| 00:16 | i wil remove all packages for flash and re install the player v10 from .deb
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| 00:16 | <rjune_> it's a distro problem. so #debian is probably the best place to start
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| 00:17 | <pr0cess0r> yes sorry im in the wrong place for this
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| 00:18 | <rjune_> no problems, just less likely to find the help you need here.
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| 00:18 | <pr0cess0r> i remove all package with flash in the name lol
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| 00:20 | <pr0cess0r> i think its not linked to firefox like you say
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| 04:14 | <kriegaffe> Good morning.
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| 04:15 | I'm experiencing a problem to mount a usb stick on my ltsp server (xubuntu 8.04lts with ltsp 5.0.40)
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| 04:16 | I followed the ubuntu usb troubleshooting guide: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
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| 04:16 | then at the very last line when I try to mount it with: ssh -X -S /var/run/ldm_socket_vt7_10.1.0.1 10.1.0.1 "/usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter /tmp add"
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| 04:17 | I get the following output:
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| 04:17 | Wrote 7bd41d281e3055fcbe4d7ad00c506372 size 32, waiting
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| 04:17 | Error: /media/gast04 is not mounted
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| 04:17 | gast04 being the user that logged in on that thinclient.
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| 04:18 | Does anybody have an idea? I would like the link to the usb to automagically show up on the thin client desktop.
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| 04:19 | I can see this in /var/run/ltspfs_fstab on the thinclient: Wrote 7bd41d281e3055fcbe4d7ad00c506372 size 32, waiting
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| 04:19 | sorry, this is in the fstab file: /dev/sdb1 /var/run/drives/STORE_N_GO vfat defaults 0 0
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| 04:20 | which corresponds exactly with the output in dmesg.
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| 04:20 | <kriegaffe> I can put files in that folder.
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| 04:21 | so my bottomline: the usb stick seems to work but it doesn't show up automatically on the desktop.
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| 04:27 | <kriegaffe> looks like this is maybe a bug in ltspfs? My version is the newest available for xubuntu 8.04 0.5.0~bzr20080109-3ubuntu3
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| 04:30 | also, the folder /media/gast04 to which it should be mounted looks strange on the server:
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| 04:30 | d????????? ? ? ? ? ? STORE_N_GO
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| 05:18 | <kriegaffe> does anybody have the strange permission problem when using usb disks in thin clients? the folder gets: d????????? ? ? ? ? ? STORE_N_GO
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| 06:06 | <ekin> Hey all. I have a problem related to K12 Linux.
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| 06:07 | I have set up a thin client system following the steps at https://fedorahosted.org/k12linux/wiki/RHEL5Server but we cannot change the screen resolution on the thin clients.
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| 06:09 | <ekin> Specifiying screen resolution in lts.conf does not effect the thin clients. Some work in 1024x768 some in 800x600 even though both are capable of 1024.
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| 06:10 | the command we used is: X_MODE_0 = 1024x768
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| 06:11 | <Appiah> did you put it under [Default] or where?
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| 06:14 | <ekin> default didn't work. i tried it under a specific mac adress for the client and that didn't work either.
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| 06:56 | <kriegaffe> :guni ?
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| 07:02 | <gate_keeper_> guys
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| 07:03 | does anyone had setup ltsp5(ubuntu) + linux ha + dhcp failover :-/
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| 07:08 | * ogra sighs about the debian fontforge package ... there are days where i doubt the mental sanity of DDs | |
| 07:08 | <ogra> whoops .... ECHAN ...
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| 07:10 | * vagrantc forwards the comment on to all DDs | |
| 07:11 | <ogra> heh
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| 07:11 | did you ever look at fontforge ?
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| 07:11 | its insane
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| 07:12 | <vagrantc> doesn't look like anything i would be inclined to look into if i could get away with it :)
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| 07:13 | <ogra> orig.tar.gz contains four tarballs ... debian/rules unpacks them, copies custom configure.in files into the different source dirs, runs eachs autofoo proggy separate etc etc
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| 07:13 | and indeed it isnt compatible at all with the latest libtool so explodes on each of these runs ...
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| 07:15 | <vagrantc> ah, you whet my appetite!
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| 07:15 | <ogra> heh
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| 07:15 | <rjune_> ogra!
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| 07:15 | how was the booze?
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| 07:15 | <ogra> rjune, hey
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| 07:16 | i loved the beer (thanks from david as well)
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| 07:16 | <rjune_> how about the wine?
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| 07:16 | Glad he liked it too. I didn't hear back from him yesterday, was thinking of dropping a line today
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| 07:17 | <ogra> i found the wine a bit to sweet, i know met in a slight more bitter way
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| 07:17 | was tasty as well though
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| 07:18 | <rjune_> i know met?
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| 07:18 | <ogra> i shared it with a lot of people on the last evening party ... my japanaes colleagues loved it since it tasted a bit like their plum wine
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| 07:18 | <rjune_> That was a sweet wine, I have some stuff going now that's less so
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| 07:19 | * ogra fires up dict ... | |
| 07:19 | <rjune_> wonderful, glad everything was enjoyed
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| 07:19 | <ogra> ah, you call met -> mead
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| 07:19 | <rjune_> ahh.
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| 07:21 | anyway, I have to head to work
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| 07:31 | <alkisg> Ehm... I've just created a launchpad team for Greek teachers using LTSP, and I've named it "ltsp.sch.gr". Are there any copyright issues with the LTSP word?
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| 07:33 | <vvinet> from ltsp.org I could find: LTSP is a registered trademark of DisklessWorkstations.Com, LLC
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| 07:34 | but I am no expert on ltsp or copyright
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| 07:37 | <alkisg> Hmmm... I should ask before using it! :)
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| 08:06 | <gate_keeper_> # lsmod | grep snd
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| 08:06 | # nothing .....
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| 08:13 | <pscheie> is this channel logged/archived/recorded somewhere?
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| 08:14 | * ogra points pscheie to /topic | |
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| 09:10 | <pscheie> warren, ping
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| 09:12 | <warren> pscheie: pong
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| 09:15 | <pscheie> new quick start guide files at peterscheie.fedorapeople.org/k12linux/quick-start-guide
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| 09:15 | I fixed the path in the .desktop
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| 09:15 | etc.
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| 09:16 | did not change the icon
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| 09:17 | warren, I also responded to some of Fabrice's concerns on bugzilla ticket
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| 09:20 | <warren> pscheie: not a big deal, but in the future please include a blank line between each changelog entry
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| 09:21 | <pscheie> warren, oh, ok,
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| 09:21 | warren, for readability?
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| 09:21 | <warren> pscheie: yes
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| 09:21 | pscheie: yes
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| 09:21 | oops
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| 09:21 | GenericName[en_US]=
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| 09:21 | why blank?
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| 09:22 | <pscheie> I removed the Name[en_US] line because I thought it was redundant just like Fabrice suggested Icon[en_US] was
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| 09:23 | <johnny> can somebody please try to see if namecheap.com works for them?
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| 09:23 | <pscheie> I figured they were initially created by my right-clicking on the desktop to create the .desktop file, figured it wasn't really necessary
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| 09:24 | johnny, I can get to namecheap.com, if that's what you're asking
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| 09:24 | <johnny> weird..
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| 09:26 | <warren> I wouldn't trust a name like that.
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| 09:26 | <pscheie> warren, my bad, GenericName[en_US] is in the source .desktop file
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| 09:26 | warren, I missed it, should be removed
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| 09:26 | <warren> highbrowregistrar.com I would trust
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| 09:27 | <pscheie> warren, I'll fix it, but I probably won't be able to get to it until tomorrow night at the earliest
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| 09:27 | <vagrantc> warren: do you use server/services/ltsp-dhcpd.init ?
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| 09:27 | <warren> pscheie: if I get around to spinning today I might just fix it
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| 09:27 | <vagrantc> warren: in ltsp-trunk
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| 09:27 | <pscheie> warren, that's fine
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| 09:27 | <warren> vagrantc: checking
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| 09:28 | <vagrantc> i get some .pot related warnings with it on build
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| 09:28 | <warren> vagrantc: seems so
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| 09:28 | <vagrantc> ../server/services/ltsp-dhcpd.init:78: warning: the syntax $"..." is deprecated due to security reasons; use eval_gettext instead
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| 09:29 | <warren> vagrantc: hmm, every initscript in Fedora is that way.
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| 09:29 | vagrantc: what tool is saying that?
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| 09:30 | * vagrantc looks around for exactly where it happens | |
| 09:31 | <vagrantc> warren: when i run "make" from ltsp-trunk/po
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| 09:32 | <warren> vagrantc: ok, so msgmerge
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| 09:32 | <vagrantc> more specifically, make ltsp.pot
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| 09:32 | scratch that
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| 09:32 | <kriegaffe> Hello folks, I know I've asked this before but I didn't find a solution yet. my usb stick is not automounted on the desktop of the thinclient and the permissions on hte server look like this: d????????? ? ? ? ? ? STORE_N_GO
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| 09:32 | <vagrantc> ah yes, that is it
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| 09:32 | after removing it
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| 09:33 | warren: so msgmerge what?
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| 09:33 | <warren> vagrantc: I think it is safe if you control the content of the script it is doing msgmerge on
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| 09:33 | <vagrantc> warren: ok, i just noticed the warning and figured i'd mention it
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| 09:34 | <warren> vagrantc: my people are saying that is just how initscripts are, and changing it will break it
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| 09:34 | msgmerge might just be overly paranoid
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| 09:35 | ok, I got the ppc to netboot, but when X runs it gets stuck, and I can't VT switch.
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| 09:35 | how could I log into it from the network?
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| 09:35 | <vagrantc> ah, it's actually xgettext that's issuing the warning
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| 09:36 | <warren> kriegaffe: the usb stick sounds like it has proprietary or non-standard stuff on it
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| 09:36 | kriegaffe: (it behaves like not a normal usb stick)
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| 09:38 | <kriegaffe> ah ok
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| 09:38 | it worked with ltsp4 but ofcourse that is a completely different story
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| 09:39 | in fact, this usb stick is just basic vfat partitioned thing and it is empty.
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| 09:39 | I could go to var/run/drives/... and then in the usbstick.
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| 09:39 | <ogra> and you get these permissions in /media/<devicename>
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| 09:39 | <kriegaffe> when I take a closer look, on the server in /media I see folders with each accounts name
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| 09:40 | and therein, I also see that floppy has these strange permissions.
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| 09:40 | <ogra> right, and below the account logged in to the client using that key there should be a device entry for your USB key
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| 09:40 | <kriegaffe> yes
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| 09:41 | <ogra> and the user owning it should be able to access it
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| 09:41 | <kriegaffe> example of a folder in /media: "drwxr-x--- 3 root gast03 4,0K 2008-12-17 13:53 gast03"
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| 09:42 | so the permissions on this folder are wrong indeed
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| 09:42 | <ogra> looks fine
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| 09:42 | no, the are right
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| 09:42 | <kriegaffe> owner is root and group is gast03
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| 09:42 | <ogra> right
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| 09:42 | <kriegaffe> should the group have write?
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| 09:42 | because the logged on client is the user gast03 in this case
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| 09:42 | <ogra> yes, how else would gast03 be able to write to the key ?
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| 09:43 | <kriegaffe> indeed, but I get instead r-x for the group and the owner is root instead of the user
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| 09:43 | <ogra> right
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| 09:43 | <kriegaffe> Is this a wrong config somewhere?
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| 09:43 | <vagrantc> would anyone object if i moved the screen-session.d/XS* scripts to use a wider range ... makes it hard to insert stuff in the middle of things
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| 09:43 | <ogra> no
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| 09:43 | its all correct
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| 09:44 | the mounter tool on the server needs to be suid root so the dir thats created is owned by root
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| 09:44 | the user permissions are handled through the users group permissions
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| 09:44 | <kriegaffe> ok, I understand that
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| 09:45 | this is how the floppy looks under the gast03 folder: "d????????? ? ? ? ? ? floppy0"
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| 09:45 | <ogra> even if oyu look *as* guest03 ?
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| 09:45 | <kriegaffe> same for any other device in any other gastXX folder
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| 09:45 | hmm, did not try that
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| 09:45 | <ogra> try it :)
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| 09:46 | <kriegaffe> ah, like you said: as the user, it looks ok: "drwxr-xr-x 2 gast03 gast03 40 2008-12-17 14:00 floppy0"
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| 09:47 | so this is exactly as it should be then.
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| 09:48 | <ogra> right
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| 09:48 | <kriegaffe> Doesn't the link to the folder pop up automatically on the gnome desktop for a reason? Do I need to config gnomevfs or anything to get that behavior?
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| 09:48 | at the moment, it doesn't pop up
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| 09:48 | <ogra> fuse somehow hides permissions on that weird questionmark syntax for non owners
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| 09:49 | <kriegaffe> it was confusing for me, I could not find it with google... (maybe my bad search) but this explains a lot to me
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| 09:49 | thanks
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| 09:49 | <ogra> gnomevfs monitors /media so it should just pop up automatically
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| 09:50 | <kriegaffe> but it doesn't so that is a gnomevfs problem then and not ltsp, ok. I'll google some info on that.
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| 09:50 | thanks again
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| 10:30 | <Gadi> is anyone near a test thin client that they have shell access to and can reboot to help me test something?
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| 10:30 | <warren> Gadi: what's up?
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| 10:31 | <vagrantc> possibly
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| 10:31 | <Gadi> I just need some one to reboot without touching mouse/keyboard, then log into the shell, and cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
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| 10:31 | <warren> you need to touch the keyboardd to do that
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| 10:32 | <Gadi> right
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| 10:32 | touch keyboard for that part
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| 10:32 | but dont move mouse
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| 10:32 | <warren> Gadi: entropy is known to be non-existent after booting, there are no sources of entropy
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| 10:32 | <Gadi> that's improtant
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| 10:32 | <warren> upstream kernel doesn't use network as a source
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| 10:32 | <Gadi> warren: yeah - I am finding that
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| 10:32 | <warren> Gadi: could do better, just cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail into a log file at the end of bootup
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| 10:32 | Gadi: what are you trying to do with entropy?
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| 10:33 | Gadi: I've been forced to use /dev/urandom intead of /dev/random because of this
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| 10:33 | * ogra was ondering the same | |
| 10:33 | <Gadi> I tracked down the most interesting weirdness yesterday
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| 10:33 | * warren already hit related weirdness | |
| 10:33 | <Gadi> the ICA client uses /dev/random (not urandom) for SSL
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| 10:33 | <johnny> i wouldn't call that weirdness..
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| 10:33 | <Gadi> so, if you up the encryption level on a thin client,
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| 10:33 | the citrix client won't start until you move the mouse
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| 10:34 | its not weirdness
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| 10:34 | just took me a bit of thinking to find the root cause
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| 10:34 | to a user, its a bit odd
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| 10:34 | and looks like the session fails to come up
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| 10:34 | <vagrantc> one might even say, real weird.
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| 10:34 | could you seed the randomness from the server somehow?
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> warren: forced wheere?
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| 10:35 | vagrantc: yeah, I can
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| 10:35 | <vagrantc> it would be imperfect randomness ...
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| 10:35 | <Gadi> I just want to make sure that our LDM is not affected
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| 10:35 | (as we use ssh)
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| 10:35 | <vagrantc> surely it uses urandom
| |
| 10:35 | <Gadi> I have had times where when I use LDM across NAT
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| 10:36 | LDM_DIRECTX=False
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| 10:36 | where the display does not update until I move the mouse
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| 10:36 | (like with progress bars and such)
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| 10:36 | and I am thinking it may be realted
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| 10:36 | *related
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| 10:36 | <warren> it is likely related yes.
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| 10:36 | Gadi: if we REALLY want to be sure there is entropy, we could have LDM not display anything until someone has moved the mouse around
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| 10:36 | <Gadi> warren: in what case and how did you move to urandom?
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| 10:37 | from what I can tell, openssl > 0.9.7 uses urandom
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| 10:37 | <warren> Gadi: before I used /dev/random to generate only 16 characters for mcookie xauth
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| 10:37 | <Gadi> ah
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| 10:37 | <warren> Gadi: booting a client, it coudln't generate even 16 characters from /dev/random
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| 10:38 | * vagrantc reads RANDOM(4) | |
| 10:38 | <Gadi> openssh uses openssl, correct?
| |
| 10:38 | <warren> Gadi: if entropy is REALLY desired then a "mouse gesture" requirement in the greeter would be good.
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| 10:38 | <vagrantc> "As a general rule, /dev/urandom should be used for everything except long-lived GPG/SSL/SSH keys.
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| 10:38 | "
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| 10:38 | <warren> vagrantc: yeah, but even /dev/urandom sucks if you have zero entropy
| |
| 10:39 | <johnny> patch the kernel..
| |
| 10:39 | get your network entropy..
| |
| 10:39 | <warren> our distro wont do that
| |
| 10:39 | <johnny> is there a reason such a patch isn't in the kernel?
| |
| 10:39 | * Gadi wonders if he should just inject /dev/urandom with a seed on boot | |
| 10:39 | <Gadi> even if it is the same seed
| |
| 10:39 | <vagrantc> seeding it from the server over the network?
| |
| 10:39 | <warren> johnny: it was judged to be not cryptographically safe
| |
| 10:39 | <johnny> aha
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| 10:39 | <Gadi> or if that defeats the security
| |
| 10:39 | <warren> Fedora ships some userspace entropy generator
| |
| 10:40 | it gets it from random quantum noise of a webcam or microphone
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| 10:40 | <vagrantc> i guess there's no way to securely transfer entropy... without a sufficient existing entropy pool :)
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| 10:40 | <Gadi> I just need a one-time injection I think
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| 10:41 | I dont think I need a daemon
| |
| 10:41 | <warren> well, no guarantee that clients have microphones or webcams
| |
| 10:41 | so that can't be depended on anyway
| |
| 10:42 | <vagrantc> if it has it, it probably wouldn't hurt to use (at least the mic)
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| 10:42 | <Gadi> Yeah, my entropy_avail for this client (after logging in with keyboard) is like 257
| |
| 10:42 | <ogra> isnt there a sysctl way to switch it on ?
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| 10:42 | <Gadi> way too low
| |
| 10:42 | <ogra> or bump it
| |
| 10:43 | Chidder has left #ltsp | |
| 10:43 | <Gadi> bump it how?
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| 10:44 | <ogra> no idea ... via a sysctl variable probably
| |
| 10:44 | i have no idea if thats possible
| |
| 10:44 | <Gadi> but what do you mean bump it?
| |
| 10:44 | you need to generate entropy from env sources
| |
| 10:44 | <warren> ogra: is network entropy in the upstream kernel?
| |
| 10:44 | <ogra> no idea
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| 10:44 | <vagrantc> using a predictable seed gives the illusion of security ...
| |
| 10:45 | <ogra> i'm luckily no kerne guy :) but i can ask
| |
| 10:45 | <warren> normal linux machines are able to get entropy from disk timings
| |
| 10:45 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 10:45 | sucks to have no disks
| |
| 10:45 | :)
| |
| 10:45 | I suppose I can tftp a random seed file from the server
| |
| 10:46 | and have the server generate that file periodically
| |
| 10:46 | <vagrantc> i wonder if that hasn't been causing other slowdowns with X over SSH all along...
| |
| 10:46 | <Gadi> like every minute or so
| |
| 10:46 | <warren> wikipedia links to https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/audio-entropyd
| |
| 10:46 | If your hardware HAS a sound card, it might be able to generate something with audio-entropyd
| |
| 10:47 | without a microphone plugged in, background radiation still creates analog noise
| |
| 10:47 | if you boost the gain you can hear it
| |
| 10:47 | <Gadi> right - but my environments that care about security also disable audio
| |
| 10:47 | :)
| |
| 10:47 | in the BIOS, I mean
| |
| 10:48 | network would definitely be the way to go
| |
| 10:48 | <warren> oh
| |
| 10:48 | <vagrantc> there's also randomsound ...
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| 10:48 | <warren> vagrantc: eh?
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| 10:48 | <vagrantc> warren: http://packages.debian.org/randomsound
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| 10:48 | dmhardison has quit IRC | |
| 10:48 | <ogra> <apw> i think there is some way to ask the kernel which interrupts are contributing to entropy, and to add new ones if you know ones which are cool for that
| |
| 10:48 | from one of our kernel guys
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| 10:49 | <warren> vagrantc: same problem, no device to input from
| |
| 10:49 | ogra: you can do that in the upstream kernel?
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| 10:50 | <ogra> i assume so, i asked explicitly about upstream
| |
| 10:50 | he is digging for me ...
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| 10:50 | if we could just base on the NIC interrupt that should help
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| 10:50 | japerry_cat has quit IRC | |
| 10:50 | <warren> vagrantc: randomsound is userspace?
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| 10:51 | <vagrantc> warren: i just did apt-cache search ... if you've read the URL you know as much as i do :)
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| 10:51 | <warren> http://lwn.net/Articles/283103/ relevant article on this subject
| |
| 10:52 | * ogra doesnt like the idea to rely on HW that might not be present for this | |
| 10:53 | <warren> ogra: agreed
| |
| 10:53 | "But network interrupts are seen as a dubious source of entropy because they may be able to be observed, or manipulated, by an attacker. In addition, as network traffic rises, many network drivers turn off receive interrupts from the hardware, allowing the kernel to poll periodically for incoming packets. This would reduce entropy collection just at the time when it might be needed for encrypting the traffic."
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| 10:55 | <ogra> well, still better than a stuck value at around 250
| |
| 10:55 | * vagrantc would say the same of hardware that may or may not be present | |
| 10:56 | <ogra> well, a NIC is definately present on a thin client :)
| |
| 10:56 | <johnny> too bad there isn't onboard hardware to help..
| |
| 10:56 | * Gadi wonders if disk access includes ramdisk | |
| 10:59 | <warren> Gadi: http://egd.sourceforge.net/
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| 10:59 | Gadi: doesn't help to feed /dev/random but it acts as a replacement...
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| 11:01 | <Gadi> warren: but it only gathers entropy on a busy system
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| 11:01 | <warren> Gadi: hmm, is there any X_* lts.conf option I could use to turn off DRI?
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| 11:01 | <Gadi> which does not help when waiting for a login
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| 11:02 | * johnny awaits evolution-rss 0.1.2 for fedora10 | |
| 11:02 | <warren> Gadi: mouse gesture might be the only option
| |
| 11:02 | "Wiggle mouse to continue"
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| 11:02 | johnny: is someone actually building it?
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| 11:02 | johnny: you could just join as a fedora developer and do it
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| 11:03 | <johnny> how many packaging systems am i supposed to know :)
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| 11:03 | hehe
| |
| 11:03 | <warren> We apparently have no standards of what is acceptable as an update...
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| 11:03 | <ogra> so recommendation of our kernel tem is to actually use IRQF_SAMPLE_RANDOM
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| 11:03 | from the NIC driver
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| 11:03 | <warren> ogra: NIC drivers have been ripping that out
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| 11:04 | ogra: http://lwn.net/Articles/283103/
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| 11:04 | <ogra> yes i saw that
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| 11:04 | <johnny> warren, it seems like it is updates-testing.. now that i can tell
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| 11:05 | go go packagekit :)
| |
| 11:06 | i just installed it directly from updates-testing..
| |
| 11:07 | warren, .. still no problems with the dbus issue since the packagekit-glib dep issues were solved
| |
| 11:07 | <warren> that was only the most visible
| |
| 11:07 | <johnny> sure.. i have yet to see any other issue ;)
| |
| 11:08 | now.. if only evolution,bansee,f-spot,tomboy,rhythmbox and the like could use packagekit to discover addons..
| |
| 11:08 | cross platform dreams make it more difficult tho :(
| |
| 11:09 | perfect..
| |
| 11:10 | fixed my problem with adding ebay search result rss feeds
| |
| 11:10 | it also fixes issues when using dark themes..
| |
| 11:10 | jstephan has quit IRC | |
| 11:10 | <johnny> i'd still like to use email for rss at some point.. but there's no gui to manage subscriptions..
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| 11:10 | i installed some ruby sript to do it.. but i don't feel like editing config files..
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| 11:11 | also.. evolution makes me sad.. with it's lack of managesieve support..
| |
| 11:11 | * johnny <3 sieve | |
| 11:11 | <johnny> works with every client..
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| 11:11 | luckily squirremail has a plugin..
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| 11:12 | <ogra> vagrantc, how about rng-tools ?
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| 11:12 | warren, ^^^ does FC have something like that ?
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| 11:13 | <johnny> rng-utils
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| 11:13 | <ogra> ah, cool
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| 11:13 | that would at least help on clients where the HW is available
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| 11:13 | <johnny> [root@falling ~]# repoquery -l rng-utils
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| 11:13 | /sbin/rngd
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| 11:13 | /usr/bin/rngtest
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| 11:14 | is that what you were expecting?
| |
| 11:14 | <ogra> rngd
| |
| 11:14 | * johnny wins | |
| 11:14 | <ogra> :)
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| 11:14 | <johnny> at least knowing debian and ubuntu is similiar enough
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| 11:14 | <Nubae> hmmm, u know what would be really nice for ltsp wishlist...
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| 11:15 | <johnny> i'm just getting familiar with rpm tools..
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| 11:15 | <Nubae> some sort of collaboration across apps
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| 11:15 | <warren> what does rngd do?
| |
| 11:15 | <johnny> Nubae, huH?
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| 11:15 | <Nubae> like gobby, but for more than just gobby
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| 11:15 | <ogra> it uses the hw_random module to request/set entropy
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| 11:15 | <johnny> is that really ltsp related?
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| 11:15 | <Nubae> well, maybe, maybe not
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| 11:15 | <johnny> abiword has jabber support
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| 11:15 | so does inkscape
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| 11:15 | <Nubae> oh they do?
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| 11:15 | <johnny> and then there's cochinella
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| 11:15 | <Nubae> nice to know....
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| 11:16 | <johnny> well.. i don't know if ubuntu builds those in
| |
| 11:16 | but they are options on gentoo
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| 11:16 | <Nubae> well, then doing that would be so awsome for schools
| |
| 11:16 | set up ejabberd, alongside support in various apps
| |
| 11:17 | <johnny> Nubae, check out chesspark sometime
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| 11:17 | to see what folks are doing on top of xmpp
| |
| 11:17 | <Nubae> what is it?
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| 11:17 | <johnny> guess..
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| 11:17 | <Nubae> ok
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| 11:17 | <johnny> lol
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| 11:18 | <Nubae> xmpp is real neat, especially considering google decided to use it
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| 11:18 | <johnny> google doesn't do a good job..
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| 11:18 | <Nubae> but there is no combined user experience for collaboration through the desktop manager
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| 11:18 | <johnny> i need to find proof whether they still .. or ever did filter IQ packets
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| 11:18 | <Nubae> or the apps
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| 11:18 | well, it seems fine to me, more stable than msn for sure
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| 11:19 | <ogra> warren, amd-rng, geode-rng, intel-rng or via-rng are the respective modules
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| 11:19 | <johnny> i heard that they filter iq packets that their official client does not support
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| 11:19 | so.. even if you were to use a client that did support them
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| 11:19 | <warren> ogra: oh, hardware?
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| 11:19 | <ogra> warren, yes
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| 11:19 | <warren> ogra: not all hardware has hardware sources though
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| 11:19 | <ogra> where available
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| 11:19 | <Nubae> which is their official client, u mean web based?
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| 11:19 | <johnny> googletalk and webclient
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| 11:20 | both
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| 11:20 | <Nubae> ah, ok, never used googletalk, I just use pidgin
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| 11:20 | <ogra> warren, well, we could make a recommendation ... "if you use citrix with ltsp, buy this or that HW"
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| 11:20 | <johnny> and they still have a nasty bug in their code where if you join a muc room and change your nick
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| 11:20 | <ogra> makes it at least better than "wiggle your mouse"
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| 11:20 | <johnny> it starts off some endless cycle
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| 11:20 | <Nubae> oh, that sounds bad indeed
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| 11:21 | <johnny> they aslo dont' support tls1
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| 11:21 | <Gadi> ogra: I am not convinced that LDM is unaffected here, too
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| 11:21 | <Nubae> that aint no biggy
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| 11:21 | <Gadi> even if it uses urandom
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| 11:21 | <johnny> Nubae, not for you as a user..
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| 11:21 | but for coders it is
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| 11:21 | <ogra> Gadi, well, my kernel guys would patch the NIC randomness back in if i begged very hard ... but that wont help warren ... or debian ... or gentoo
| |
| 11:22 | <Gadi> right
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| 11:22 | <ogra> but i got such an offer ...
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| 11:22 | <Gadi> it would be nice if we could use memory interrupts or some such
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| 11:22 | <warren> how do you automatically load the right rng module?
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| 11:22 | you need the rng module + daemon?
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| 11:22 | <Gadi> and just read from memory periodically
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| 11:22 | <ogra> yeah
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| 11:22 | i would expect udev to work and in hand with the daemon
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| 11:23 | if thats not the case thats a bug to be fixed :)
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| 11:23 | japerry has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:23 | <warren> i'm seeing if we have that package
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| 11:23 | <ogra> warren, according to johnny you do
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| 11:23 | warren, rng-utils
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| 11:23 | <warren> via really needs a daemon? I thought via padlock already does this.
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| 11:23 | <Gadi> ogra: on my server, I needed to modprobe the module
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| 11:24 | for intel-rng
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| 11:24 | <ogra> Gadi, with rng-tools installed ?
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| 11:24 | <Gadi> hmm
| |
| 11:24 | ah, no
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| 11:24 | <ogra> right, the deamon should trigger udev ...
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| 11:24 | if not we should fix that
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> /etc/modprobe.d/rng-tools
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| 11:25 | <ogra> though i'm not sure if the module provides a device ...
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| 11:25 | <Gadi> thats how it does it
| |
| 11:25 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 11:25 | that looks debianish
| |
| 11:25 | <Gadi> alias char-major-10-183 hw_random
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| 11:25 | alias /dev/hwrng hw_random
| |
| 11:25 | alias /dev/misc/hwrng hw_random
| |
| 11:25 | thats weird
| |
| 11:25 | <johnny> you look debianish today ogra
| |
| 11:25 | hehe
| |
| 11:25 | new word
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| 11:25 | <ogra> /dev/hwrng
| |
| 11:25 | thats what we want a udev rule for
| |
| 11:25 | <Gadi> I wonder if it would load the correct module from hw_random
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| 11:26 | <johnny> it might..
| |
| 11:26 | magic like that happens often
| |
| 11:26 | <Gadi> will rngd take bits from hwrng and push to random?
| |
| 11:27 | or do apps need to be told to use hwrng?
| |
| 11:27 | <ogra> ogra@osiris:~/Devel/packages/fontforge-0.0.20080429$ grep hwrng /etc/udev/rules.d/*
| |
| 11:27 | /etc/udev/rules.d/20-names.rules:KERNEL=="hw_random", NAME="hwrng"
| |
| 11:27 | well, intrepid udev seems to have it
| |
| 11:27 | according to the package description rngd sets the entropy based on hwrng
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| 11:27 | <Gadi> which comes from the udev pkg
| |
| 11:28 | <ogra> right
| |
| 11:28 | where it belongs
| |
| 11:28 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 11:28 | <warren> Gadi: hmm, I used XSERVER=fbdev and it failed to create or use an xorg.conf
| |
| 11:28 | <Gadi> hmm... now I need to find out which of my thin clients have hwrng
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| 11:28 | <warren> Gadi: ltsp-5.1.39
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| 11:28 | <ogra> if the kernel finds a hw_random device it will load the module
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| 11:28 | <Gadi> warren: did you look in /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf
| |
| 11:29 | or whatever that is
| |
| 11:29 | <warren> Gadi: it didn't create one, and X was run without -config
| |
| 11:30 | <Gadi> is CONFIGURE_X=False?
| |
| 11:30 | ah - is /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf in your rwtab?
| |
| 11:31 | <vagrantc> /var/run surely is
| |
| 11:32 | <CAN-o-SPAM> gadi/warren/vagrantc: is there any interest in another summer hackfest aside from brazil? *i have a feeling some wont be able to attend brazil
| |
| 11:32 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: I likely can't do more than one event during the summer, and Brazil is looking unlikely given I have no budget
| |
| 11:32 | <CAN-o-SPAM> & ogra ...
| |
| 11:33 | <warren> Gadi: /var/run itself is writable
| |
| 11:33 | Gadi: I've never actually used X_* options ever before now
| |
| 11:33 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM: i'm in a similar boat as warren
| |
| 11:34 | <ogra> brazil depends on my company ...
| |
| 11:34 | <CAN-o-SPAM> so would that mean were looking for an affordable summer event for everyone?
| |
| 11:34 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM: i could probably host another event at freegeek
| |
| 11:34 | <johnny> i can also host in baltimore
| |
| 11:34 | <warren> I could host in Westford, but it sucks in Westford
| |
| 11:35 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 11:35 | <pscheie> having something in a major city makes transportation cheaper usually
| |
| 11:35 | <warren> hotels are expensive and there's no public transport
| |
| 11:35 | <johnny> i can find housing
| |
| 11:35 | <warren> Boston there are some hostels and I could probably get MIT to host for free
| |
| 11:35 | I like Oregon
| |
| 11:36 | <johnny> i like having an excuse to go elsewhere of course
| |
| 11:36 | <CAN-o-SPAM> jammcq and i will be visiting a place in Ann Arbor, MI which has somewhat offered to provide free hosting, only cost would be transport/hotel
| |
| 11:36 | * ogra likes oregon too, but baltimore is nearer | |
| 11:36 | <CAN-o-SPAM> maybe google could show some interest? MIT would be a nice place as well
| |
| 11:36 | <warren> I doubt Google would care.
| |
| 11:36 | <ogra> we just had our UDS at google
| |
| 11:36 | <warren> hey, lets visit Norway!
| |
| 11:36 | <johnny> lol
| |
| 11:36 | <pscheie> since BTS is on east coast, should it be west coast?
| |
| 11:36 | <ogra> and it really sucked a bit
| |
| 11:36 | * pscheie likes Norway | |
| 11:36 | <johnny> really sucked.. a bit?
| |
| 11:36 | <warren> ogra: how so?
| |
| 11:37 | <CAN-o-SPAM> norway = brazil cost
| |
| 11:37 | <ogra> no photos to be taken inside buildings etc
| |
| 11:37 | <johnny> how could it really suck.. a bit :)
| |
| 11:37 | <ogra> security guards all over watching you
| |
| 11:37 | <johnny> it either sucks.. or it doesn't :)
| |
| 11:37 | sounds sucky
| |
| 11:37 | i don't want to go to google anyways
| |
| 11:37 | <ogra> well, it was ok, but compared to two years ago its not really a pleasure anymore to do a conf at google
| |
| 11:38 | Nubae has quit IRC | |
| 11:38 | <pscheie> vagrantc, you're in Oregon, correct?
| |
| 11:38 | <vagrantc> pscheie: yeah
| |
| 11:38 | <warren> Gadi: hmm, nothing in logs indicating why it didn't try to create an xorg.conf
| |
| 11:38 | * warren gets food | |
| 11:38 | <johnny> warren becomes food
| |
| 11:39 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:39 | <johnny> and the cycle of life continues
| |
| 11:39 | <vagrantc> i'll likely be heading to spain mid-july, and possibly midwest or east-cost early july or early august
| |
| 11:39 | <johnny> so.. no july for freegeek
| |
| 11:39 | <ogra> spain !
| |
| 11:40 | <johnny> might as well go to brazil as spain for me
| |
| 11:40 | <ogra> that sounds like a good opportunity ...
| |
| 11:40 | <vagrantc> ogra: debian conference ... extremadura ... 4,000 LTSP *servers* deployed on debian :)
| |
| 11:40 | <johnny> not a wholt lot of difference
| |
| 11:40 | * Gadi just requests someplace near an airport | |
| 11:40 | <Gadi> :)
| |
| 11:40 | <pscheie> spain = norway = brazil cost
| |
| 11:40 | <ogra> pfft
| |
| 11:40 | you US guys
| |
| 11:40 | <Gadi> or the Tri-state area
| |
| 11:40 | :)
| |
| 11:40 | <ogra> always whining if you have to leave your country
| |
| 11:40 | <johnny> lol
| |
| 11:40 | <Gadi> we could all og to the Jersey shore
| |
| 11:40 | *go
| |
| 11:40 | <johnny> ogra, i would love to leave.. as long as you're paying!
| |
| 11:41 | * vagrantc hopes to avoid swimming with the fishes ... or the toxic waste | |
| 11:41 | <johnny> i have no business interests in ltsp
| |
| 11:41 | so i can't justify the costs of such travel for it
| |
| 11:41 | well except for our store..
| |
| 11:41 | but my entire budget is $50 every 2 weeks
| |
| 11:41 | <Gadi> fine. virginia beach
| |
| 11:41 | <johnny> i know the area
| |
| 11:41 | <Gadi> thats closer to johnny
| |
| 11:41 | or cape may
| |
| 11:42 | <johnny> Gadi, i lived in virginia beach for 20 years
| |
| 11:42 | <Gadi> see
| |
| 11:42 | :)
| |
| 11:42 | * vagrantc has no business sense, so can hardly manage any un-sponsored travel | |
| 11:42 | <ogra> Gadi, cape ? as in captown ? :)
| |
| 11:42 | <johnny> cape may..
| |
| 11:42 | <ogra> *capetown
| |
| 11:42 | <johnny> it's a place
| |
| 11:42 | <Gadi> florida's always cheap in the summer
| |
| 11:42 | <nubae> ogra, u going to 25C3 in Berlin?
| |
| 11:42 | <johnny> Gadi, but in baltimore.. i have an entire church :)
| |
| 11:42 | <CAN-o-SPAM> ogra: anyword from the HW guy?
| |
| 11:42 | <johnny> http://redemmas.org/2640/
| |
| 11:43 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, he said he'd mail you ... yesterday
| |
| 11:43 | <pscheie> Gadi, there's a reason florida is cheap in the summer
| |
| 11:43 | <johnny> don't mind the crappy page.. we're getting a new one soon
| |
| 11:43 | cuz it's soo damn hot
| |
| 11:43 | plamengr has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:43 | <CAN-o-SPAM> the maine lobster market has been yielding much cheaper prices, so we must take advantage of lobster around the world.
| |
| 11:44 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: dude, you didn't eat lobster... in Maine
| |
| 11:44 | <ogra> spain ! :)
| |
| 11:44 | <CAN-o-SPAM> haha warren neither did you
| |
| 11:44 | <warren> I don't like lobster.
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| 11:45 | <nubae> me either tastes bitter
| |
| 11:45 | <CAN-o-SPAM> but i dont think the lobster will ever part with LTSP for some reason, eat it or not
| |
| 11:45 | * vagrantc imagines a cheesy lobster mascot for LTSP | |
| 11:45 | <pscheie> should LTSP have a lobster as mascot?
| |
| 11:45 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 11:46 | * pscheie prefers monty python allusions | |
| 11:46 | <pscheie> is there a lobster sketch?
| |
| 11:46 | * vagrantc infers monty python delusions | |
| 11:47 | * vagrantc ponders tagging ltsp-trunk | |
| 11:47 | <CAN-o-SPAM> DisklessWorkstations plans to do an LTSP logo contest and give out some free Thin Clients, and other things as prizes for places 1 - 3 ... so get your ideas going. we also need to complie a panel of judges, if your interested let me know
| |
| 11:47 | <warren> LTSP's mascot is named Clampy
| |
| 11:47 | Clampy appears on the screen "You appear to be doing something stupid. Would you like to purchase support?"
| |
| 11:48 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, do an announcement o the distro artwork mailing lists
| |
| 11:48 | *to
| |
| 11:48 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: dude... plenty of artists would do it without promise of a reward
| |
| 11:48 | <Gadi> vagrantc: you tested all of the moving files around stuff?
| |
| 11:48 | * vagrantc still needs to figure out where to get the debian artists to do a debian ldm theme | |
| 11:48 | <vagrantc> Gadi: about to :)
| |
| 11:48 | <Gadi> hehe
| |
| 11:48 | <CAN-o-SPAM> i will, i'm putting all the details together now, i'll let u know when were going to release
| |
| 11:48 | pscheie has quit IRC | |
| 11:48 | <ogra> vagrantc, there is no debian-art ML ?
| |
| 11:48 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i made sure to preserve the order
| |
| 11:49 | <Gadi> ah, ok
| |
| 11:49 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: fedora-art-list did the new ldm background image that I added last month.
| |
| 11:49 | * ogra cant belive that | |
| 11:49 | <CAN-o-SPAM> i'm thinking a 2 month time-frame for submissions, do u guys think that is too short or too long?
| |
| 11:49 | <warren> It is vastly superior to the old one.
| |
| 11:49 | <vagrantc> ogra: haven't found one so obvious as that ... there's a debian-desktop group which owns some of the packages
| |
| 11:49 | <ogra> CAN-o-SPAM, 2month should be fine
| |
| 11:49 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM: just trying to put a face to a nick ... did i meet you in michigan back in 2006?
| |
| 11:49 | <ogra> (ubuntu is going with the default gdm theme anyway though)
| |
| 11:50 | <CAN-o-SPAM> i'm getting everything together, and thinking we will release Jan 1st 09
| |
| 11:50 | vagrant, i dont think we've had the chance to meet yet, unless you met me with jam or ron outside of an LTSP event
| |
| 11:50 | <ogra> ... but we have about 150 good artists on the ubuntu-artwork ML
| |
| 11:51 | <vagrantc> CAN-o-SPAM: probably not, then
| |
| 11:53 | * vagrantc found a mipsel machine to test LTSP with | |
| 11:53 | <vagrantc> although ... it's headless
| |
| 11:53 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 11:53 | i doubt you find many mipsel clients
| |
| 11:53 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: dude, I don't mean to seem too arrogant here in knowing what is best for you, but giving hardware for this particular purpose is not a particularly necessary.
| |
| 11:53 | <vagrantc> vs. plain mips ?
| |
| 11:53 | <ogra> though i finally got my beagleboard ... i'll look into that for ltsp as supported client
| |
| 11:54 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: you're much better off getting hardware yourself to airlied for example
| |
| 11:54 | <ogra> vagrantc, vs. *anything* ? :)
| |
| 11:54 | <vagrantc> seems like armel will be a more promising future for low-powered thin clients
| |
| 11:54 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 11:54 | beagle has the disadvantage of not having an onboard NIC though
| |
| 11:54 | <CAN-o-SPAM> warren: i figured some freebies would be motivating ... good artists typically would like to work on projects that pay them, no?
| |
| 11:55 | <vagrantc> but i guess mips* thin clients do exist... somewhere.
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| 11:55 | BrunoXLambert has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:55 | <ogra> but there are likely nettops with ARM coming soom
| |
| 11:55 | <warren> CAN-o-SPAM: typically, except some art communities seem to get a lot done by reputation alone
| |
| 11:55 | <ogra> given they will be faster than the x86 ones you get and demand less power that should be a perfect thin client
| |
| 11:56 | <warren> Given that the monitor uses far more power than the client, how much of a difference does 50 vs 55 watts make?
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra> vagrantc, yeah, SGI might have built some a century ago
| |
| 11:56 | <EAG> generally speaking, is there any problems with using a 64-bit client with 32-bit server?
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra> warren, you mean 3.5 vs 55
| |
| 11:56 | <warren> EAG: pain in the ass to setup the server side for that
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| 11:56 | <EAG> ok
| |
| 11:56 | <warren> EAG: and no real benefit performance wise
| |
| 11:56 | <ogra> there is a *massive* difference in power consumption between x86 and ARM
| |
| 11:57 | <vagrantc> between x86 and dang near everything
| |
| 11:57 | <warren> ogra: via or geode x86?
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| 11:57 | <ogra> warren, doesnt matter
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| 11:57 | <warren> thincan uses max 5w?
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| 11:57 | <ogra> ARM will be lower
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| 11:57 | pscheie has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:57 | <ogra> the ARM CPU itself uses 0.1-0.5W
| |
| 11:58 | depending at which speed you run it (OMAP3 CPU which is the most recent)
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| 11:58 | <EAG> "ati-driver-installer-8-12-x86.x86_64.run" this smells 64-bit right?
| |
| 11:58 | <ogra> ATOM is at 5-10W atm
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| 11:58 | hanthana has quit IRC | |
| 11:59 | <EAG> I am trying to figure out how to load fglrx into the client... but it doesnt work
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| 11:59 | <ogra> intel still has a long way to go until they match the ARM specs
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| 11:59 | hanthana has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:59 | nubae has left #ltsp | |
| 12:03 | <EAG> somehow I always find myself pretty lonely with my problems ;) nothing even pops up on a google search...
| |
| 12:05 | <ogra> on ubuntu you only need to install xorg-driver-fglrx in the chroot ... that should give you everything needed
| |
| 12:06 | not sure what to do on other distros
| |
| 12:06 | <EAG> that didnt do the trick... unfortunately
| |
| 12:06 | I am using ubuntu
| |
| 12:06 | <ogra> though your prob will be that both proprietary drivers (nvidia as well as fglrx) replace the mesa libs
| |
| 12:06 | which adds discrepancy between server and client Xorg
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| 12:07 | <EAG> ok
| |
| 12:07 | <ogra> xorg-driver-fglrx didnt install fglrx in your chroot ?
| |
| 12:07 | <EAG> I cant seem to get xvideo to work with this ati-chip...no matter what I do
| |
| 12:07 | yes it is installed... but the module doesnt load
| |
| 12:08 | <ogra> it should pull in fglrx-kernel-source which builds athe module using dkms
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| 12:08 | *the
| |
| 12:09 | if thats built yu need to regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels
| |
| 12:09 | that should get you the module on boot
| |
| 12:10 | * ogra really doesnt see the usecase for such stuff on thin clients though | |
| 12:10 | <EAG> how do I regenerate initramfs?
| |
| 12:10 | <ogra> update-initramfs -u in the chroot
| |
| 12:10 | <EAG> ah, ok
| |
| 12:10 | <ogra> though dkms should have done that for you
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| 12:11 | <EAG> well, the reason for this mess is that I wanted xvideo to work
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| 12:11 | <ogra> ltsp-update-kernels is more important, so the bootkernel/initramfs knows aboutteh new module
| |
| 12:11 | <EAG> video playback seemed to work a lot better with that enabled
| |
| 12:11 | <ogra> after you are done with everything you also need to run ltsp-update-image ... since the actual module will be in /lib/modules in the chroot
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| 12:11 | <johnny> as long as all your clients have an ati card..
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| 12:12 | <EAG> I have tried both ltsp-update-kernels and -image (in that order) after installing the driver
| |
| 12:12 | I only have one client
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| 12:12 | <ogra> if you go to a shell on a booted client, do you see the module under /lib/modules in the tree ?
| |
| 12:13 | <EAG> I will have to reboot and check
| |
| 12:16 | <warren> vagrantc: might any of those post 5.1.39 changes help my "doesn't seem to try to create an xorg.conf" issue?
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| 12:17 | vagrantc: Gadi: oh! Is CONFIGURE_X=true required?
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| 12:17 | <Gadi> warren:
| |
| 12:17 | no
| |
| 12:17 | CONFIGURE_X=False is required
| |
| 12:17 | <vagrantc> warren: maybe ltsp-trunk 1013 ?
| |
| 12:18 | <warren> Gadi: CONFIGURE_X is not in the parameters.txt
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| 12:18 | <ogra> Gadi, ?
| |
| 12:18 | <Gadi> well, it will go away
| |
| 12:18 | <ogra> how did you guys break that ?
| |
| 12:18 | <Gadi> the default should be False
| |
| 12:18 | from what you guys tell me
| |
| 12:18 | <ogra> the default should be unset
| |
| 12:18 | <warren> Gadi: I mean, I set only XSERVER=fbdev and it doesn't seem to be doing anything
| |
| 12:19 | am I missing something else?
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| 12:19 | <Gadi> warren: do you change the default for CONFIGURE_X in fedora?
| |
| 12:19 | <warren> Gadi: no
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| 12:19 | <Gadi> ok, then that should be it
| |
| 12:19 | <ogra> so it should be unset as well
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| 12:20 | <EAG> ogra: yes, fglrx is in there under /lib/modules
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| 12:20 | <ogra> XSERVER=fbdev will only fire if you use CONFIGURE_X=True
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> # Only assemble a xorg.conf is CONFIGURE_X=False
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| 12:20 | if ! boolean_is_true "${CONFIGURE_X}"; then
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| 12:20 | <ogra> ??
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| 12:20 | <vagrantc> ogra: we've been making crazy changes.
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| 12:20 | <Gadi> ogra: no
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| 12:20 | not in the newest stuff
| |
| 12:20 | <warren> vagrantc: oh yes... /var/run/ltsp-xorg.conf doesn't exist prior to that
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| 12:20 | <vagrantc> we, as in, mostly not me :)
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| 12:20 | <ogra> vagrantc, Gadi thats insane
| |
| 12:20 | <warren> vagrantc: is it expected that it exists?
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| 12:20 | <ogra> why did you break it
| |
| 12:20 | <vagrantc> warren: it should create it
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| 12:21 | <Gadi> ogra: not to worry
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| 12:21 | <ogra> Gadi, CONFIGURE_X is the variable that tells the system to create an xorg.conf ...
| |
| 12:21 | why would you want it to be set to false to create one ?
| |
| 12:21 | <Gadi> because we have not yet removed configure-x.sh
| |
| 12:21 | <ogra> and ?
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| 12:21 | <Gadi> and it would conflict
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| 12:22 | <ogra> just dont call configure-x.sh
| |
| 12:22 | <vagrantc> or the ability to specify a custom CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND
| |
| 12:22 | <ogra> eeek
| |
| 12:22 | we shouldnt need any of that stuff anymore at some point
| |
| 12:22 | <vagrantc> kind of, sort of.
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| 12:22 | <ogra> why do you guys start to boat it in all possible directions now ?
| |
| 12:22 | *bloat
| |
| 12:22 | thats just crap
| |
| 12:23 | <vagrantc> ogra: because we like getting you all riled up :P
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| 12:23 | <ogra> remove the old broken method
| |
| 12:23 | and add fixed configuration modules piece by piece
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| 12:23 | there is definately no need to keep configure-x.sh in any way
| |
| 12:23 | <Gadi> agreed
| |
| 12:24 | * vagrantc thinks ogra undervalues sentimentality | |
| 12:24 | <ogra> so just rip it out *right now*
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> hehe
| |
| 12:24 | <ogra> and dont do such insane things with the vars :)
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| 12:24 | <Gadi> u bet
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| 12:24 | <ogra> vagrantc, i wrote configure-x.sh and i dont undervalue embarassement :)
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> ogra: heh :)
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| 12:25 | <ogra> really, make it just go away asap ... dont try to do nifty things
| |
| 12:25 | <Gadi> u got it
| |
| 12:25 | no more configure-x.sh
| |
| 12:25 | <vagrantc> but i don't want to kill off CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND
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| 12:25 | <warren> DIE!!!
| |
| 12:25 | <ogra> we can live with a gap for a while until ll bits and pieces are added to the new system
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| 12:25 | brendan0powers has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:25 | <ogra> warren, +++++
| |
| 12:25 | :)
| |
| 12:26 | * Gadi tries not to think of ogra's bits and pieces | |
| 12:27 | <warren> OHHHH
| |
| 12:27 | vagrantc: hahaha
| |
| 12:27 | vagrantc: I've failed to add screen-session.d to be installed at all and my stuff worked
| |
| 12:27 | <vagrantc> well, that's no wonder :)
| |
| 12:27 | <ogra> vagrantc, CONFIGURE_X_COMMAND wont work with the new configuration system as i understand it
| |
| 12:28 | <johnny> so.. what's the word on fixing ldm default them to use clearlooks or something else?
| |
| 12:28 | so i don't have to dep on ubuntulooks anymore
| |
| 12:28 | <ogra> johnny, thats gone already
| |
| 12:28 | <vagrantc> ogra: it will work just fine.
| |
| 12:28 | <johnny> oh.. what does it default to now?
| |
| 12:28 | <ogra> murrine and a dep on human in ubuntu
| |
| 12:29 | <johnny> can i just dep on gtk-engines then?
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| 12:29 | <warren> johnny: what exactly did that change do? I've been seeing the ubuntulooks error message forever
| |
| 12:29 | <vagrantc> warren: clearlooks
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| 12:29 | <warren> vagrantc: where is screen-session.d supposed to be installed?
| |
| 12:29 | <johnny> murrine ? seriously? why not just clearlooks?
| |
| 12:29 | or whatever comes in gtk-engines
| |
| 12:30 | <vagrantc> warren: /usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d
| |
| 12:30 | <johnny> warren, ldm would never even come up for me until in installed ubuntulooks
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> johnny, because the ubuntu default theme uses murrine and we use the human gtkrc for ubuntu ... the ltsp theme uses clearlooks since forever
| |
| 12:30 | <johnny> since forever? not since i started
| |
| 12:30 | <ogra> well, since vagrantc changed it
| |
| 12:30 | <warren> johnny: odd, it worked for me all this time.
| |
| 12:31 | vagrantc's change isn't tagged yet, I think
| |
| 12:31 | vagrantc: btw you forgot to tag ldm yesterday.
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| 12:31 | <ogra> johnny, it changed in ubuntu when i split out the ubuntu themes from ldm
| |
| 12:31 | <johnny> sure.. i'm not talking about ubuntu tho.. i'm talking about upstream :)
| |
| 12:31 | <vagrantc> warren: oops!
| |
| 12:32 | <ogra> if you dont install the ldm-themes-ubuntu package only clearlooks will be used and it will show the ltsp theme
| |
| 12:32 | <warren> vagrantc: I did it
| |
| 12:32 | <vagrantc> warren: thanks
| |
| 12:32 | <ogra> johnny, well, since when do you use plain upstream ? :) i made the change in ubuntu in hardy ... before it was indeed depending on ubuntuloks
| |
| 12:32 | <vagrantc> warren: you got any pending pushes for it?
| |
| 12:33 | <ogra> and i think vagrantc made the clearlooks change for upstream shortly before that
| |
| 12:33 | <vagrantc> ogra: it's been in upstream for ages...
| |
| 12:33 | <johnny> ogra, i always use plain upstream..
| |
| 12:33 | <ogra> vagrantc, a year i think
| |
| 12:33 | <warren> vagrantc: which?
| |
| 12:33 | <vagrantc> ogra: actually, i just made the change to clearlooks yesterday
| |
| 12:33 | <ogra> johnny, ?? before you developed on gentoo ?
| |
| 12:33 | <vagrantc> warren: ldm-trunk ... otherwise the new tags don't get pushed
| |
| 12:33 | <johnny> no.. certainly not on ubuntu
| |
| 12:34 | i use your packages on ubuntu..
| |
| 12:34 | <warren> vagrantc: no pending pushes for ldm
| |
| 12:34 | working on ltsp now
| |
| 12:34 | <ogra> johnny, right
| |
| 12:36 | <warren> brb
| |
| 12:40 | <vagrantc> tagged and pushed ltsp-trunk 5.1.40 ...
| |
| 12:40 | <ogra> with al the redesign of the x configuration, how about moving to 5.2 if thats done ?
| |
| 12:41 | to set a visible milestone for the bigger change
| |
| 12:42 | <vagrantc> well, we've already implemented the changes in 5.1 ...
| |
| 12:43 | <ogra> but not fuly done and debugged yet
| |
| 12:43 | <vagrantc> we really haven't made any sort of feature-based versioning
| |
| 12:43 | <EAG> regarding that "configure-x.sh"... thats an error I end up with when I boot the client
| |
| 12:43 | <ogra> i was thinking if CAN-o-SPAM wants to make a trademark release in jan. we might move along with the versioning
| |
| 12:43 | <vagrantc> i mean, i would like to do more of that- actually incrementing the version when a major change happens
| |
| 12:44 | <EAG> "/usr/lib/ltsp/configure-x.sh: line 27: 3920 aborted etc..."
| |
| 12:44 | what is this?
| |
| 12:44 | <ogra> looks liek a bug
| |
| 12:45 | johnny has quit IRC | |
| 12:45 | <EAG> maybe I should uninstall everything related to ltsp and start over
| |
| 12:45 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:45 | <EAG> its pretty screwed up now :(
| |
| 12:46 | <ogra> well, mv /opt/ltsp/i386 /opt/ltsp/i386.bak; sudo ltsp-build-client --copy-sourceslist :)
| |
| 12:46 | no need to uninstall anything
| |
| 12:46 | <EAG> true
| |
| 12:48 | <ogra> line 27 sounds like Xorg -configure doesnt work at all
| |
| 12:49 | <EAG> I would really like this to work... I liked the responsiveness when I used it
| |
| 12:49 | moquist has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:49 | <ogra> you should see "Xorg failed to autodetect this card" in your servers syslog
| |
| 12:49 | <EAG> but xorg shouldnt autodetect the card
| |
| 12:49 | I use a xorg.conf
| |
| 12:50 | <ogra> with the X_CONF= parameter in lts.conf ?
| |
| 12:50 | <EAG> X_CONF=/etc/X11/xorg.conf in lts.conf
| |
| 12:50 | thats the weird part
| |
| 12:50 | <ogra> change that to be /etc/X11/xorg.conf-special or something
| |
| 12:50 | <EAG> ok
| |
| 12:50 | <johnny> you never set X_CONF=/etc/X11/xorg.conf
| |
| 12:50 | <ogra> and try to set CONFIGURE_X=False
| |
| 12:50 | <johnny> i wonder if that is worth detecting..
| |
| 12:51 | <EAG> yep CONFIGURE_X=False is set
| |
| 12:51 | <ogra> though it should be unset (at least in intrepid)
| |
| 12:51 | <johnny> he's using hardy
| |
| 12:51 | i can tell
| |
| 12:51 | <EAG> hehe
| |
| 12:51 | <johnny> /usr/lib/ltsp
| |
| 12:51 | not /usr/share/ltsp
| |
| 12:51 | <EAG> yes I am using hardy
| |
| 12:51 | <ogra> ah, right
| |
| 12:51 | <warren> vagrantc: we could always pick a cerremonial point to go to 5.2.x
| |
| 12:51 | <ogra> intrepid is a lot better ...
| |
| 12:51 | <vagrantc> warren: yeah
| |
| 12:51 | <warren> vagrantc: however I have no interest in helping in a 5.1.x branch
| |
| 12:51 | <EAG> I should upgrade my server anyway
| |
| 12:52 | <ogra> warren, i would be all for doing it alongside CAN-o-SPAM doing the new logo etc
| |
| 12:52 | <vagrantc> i don't see any need to branch off of ltsp-trunk as it stands
| |
| 12:52 | <warren> ogra: well, if it is only for marketing purposes, nobody would see the new logo because distros have their own
| |
| 12:52 | <ogra> no, we should just bump the version and have a party
| |
| 12:52 | <johnny> warren, except me.. who uses all usptream :)
| |
| 12:52 | <vagrantc> everything so far appears to be compatible with debian lenny, so i'm not worrying too much
| |
| 12:53 | <warren> vagrantc: modulo bugs that need to be fixed
| |
| 12:53 | <ogra> warren, well, we could all incorporte the upstream logo in our themes for celebration for one release :)
| |
| 12:53 | <warren> ogra: my artist will be upset if I switch away...
| |
| 12:53 | hanthana has quit IRC | |
| 12:53 | <ogra> not swithc away
| |
| 12:53 | plamengr has quit IRC | |
| 12:53 | <ogra> just drop a button in a corner :)
| |
| 12:54 | <warren> Let's treat 5.2 as the 10-year anniversary PR edition
| |
| 12:54 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 12:54 | <warren> we'll get linux.com to interview all of us
| |
| 12:54 | <ogra> that sounds good
| |
| 12:54 | and pobably a fixed heise article
| |
| 12:54 | that crap they wrote is so odd
| |
| 12:55 | it hurts
| |
| 12:57 | <warren> horray
| |
| 12:57 | XSERVER=fbdev worked
| |
| 12:58 | <ogra> what kind of client is that, that you require fbdev ?
| |
| 13:04 | <warren> ogra: extremely old ppc imac
| |
| 13:04 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 13:04 | <warren> 400MHz 768MB RAM R128 video
| |
| 13:04 | <ogra> didnt they all have ati ?
| |
| 13:04 | <warren> the R128 video isn't working
| |
| 13:04 | <ogra> hmm
| |
| 13:04 | weird
| |
| 13:05 | <rjune> ogra, do you know the name of the script used to convert sobby sessions to a web page?
| |
| 13:05 | <ogra> did my dhcpd.conf work btw ?
| |
| 13:08 | rjune, nope ... i know our sysadmins have some experience with sobby (since they have to handle gobby.ubuntu.com which has to comep with several thousand users during UDS)
| |
| 13:08 | *cope
| |
| 13:08 | <rjune> heh
| |
| 13:09 | A couple of us here are looking at it, I've seen reference to this magical script. but little to no actual documentation for sobby
| |
| 13:09 | <Gadi> does anyone know if ssh pulls bits from /dev/urandom for each packet or whether it only does it once upon starting the session?
| |
| 13:10 | <ogra> pkern is the upstream author of gobby and sobby, he is usually around in #ubuntu-motu once a week or so ... just keep your eyes open for him :)
| |
| 13:11 | Gadi, ask cjwatson in #ubuntu-devel ;) he does a lot of upstream ssh work alongside his package maintenance
| |
| 13:11 | though he might be gone for the day
| |
| 13:13 | <Gadi> ogra: thx
| |
| 13:14 | randra has quit IRC | |
| 13:14 | <Gadi> seems the whole world is gone for the day
| |
| 13:14 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 13:15 | well, most canonical people are going on christmas holiday this week ...
| |
| 13:15 | <Gadi> hmm... I thought I stole that holiday
| |
| 13:16 | bah, humbug
| |
| 13:16 | <ogra> its a bridge week ... we had UDS until friday ...
| |
| 13:16 | <Gadi> how waas it?
| |
| 13:16 | <ogra> great from the productivity and evening events ...
| |
| 13:16 | <rjune> Gadi, I don't think the jews stole christmas
| |
| 13:16 | <johnny> that was me
| |
| 13:16 | sorry
| |
| 13:17 | <ogra> not so gret to see how moch google has turned into a real business company since we were there last time
| |
| 13:17 | <Gadi> well, I cannot speak for the rest
| |
| 13:17 | ogra: times are tough
| |
| 13:17 | <ogra> they seem to have really developed some kind of paranoia alongside chrome and android
| |
| 13:17 | <Gadi> cannot be all segues and vacation pods
| |
| 13:18 | <ogra> well, it was very nice and open two year ago
| |
| 13:18 | it felt rather corporate this time
| |
| 13:19 | but beyond that it was the most productive UDS we ever had imho
| |
| 13:19 | <highvoltage> I guess tough financial times can do that to a company.
| |
| 13:20 | <ogra> you can watch the videos of the sessions soon :)
| |
| 13:20 | <highvoltage> I see some of them are up already though
| |
| 13:20 | <johnny> i don't think it has to do with financial times..
| |
| 13:20 | <ogra> all discussions were taped and had live streaming audio
| |
| 13:20 | <johnny> they are just hardening up..
| |
| 13:20 | <ogra> so people could easily follow and attend via IRC
| |
| 13:21 | rjune has quit IRC | |
| 13:26 | <Gadi> hmm... strace seems to suggest that it only opens it once
| |
| 13:26 | gets what it needs
| |
| 13:26 | and closes
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| 13:26 | cyberorg has quit IRC | |
| 13:28 | <stgraber> vagrantc: do you have a url for 5.1.40 ?
| |
| 13:30 | <vagrantc> stgraber: still testing it
| |
| 13:30 | stgraber: seems like your groups change doesn't work as well
| |
| 13:31 | stgraber: the gids don't match between the server and client, and i'm pretty sure the old way handled that ... but switching to using the "groups" command doesn't seem to.
| |
| 13:32 | <warren> vagrantc: sigh, syntax difference between dhcpd.conf in dhcpv3 and dhcpv4
| |
| 13:33 | <vagrantc> gah.
| |
| 13:34 | maybe it was broken then, too ...
| |
| 13:35 | * Gadi is pretty sure the old way did the right thing | |
| 13:35 | * Gadi looks at the new way... | |
| 13:37 | <vagrantc> i don't really see *why* it would cause a problem
| |
| 13:37 | <warren> The upstream maintainer of dhcp is telling me the syntax we have been using for if and else in dhcpd.conf is wrong.
| |
| 13:37 | and that woudl explain why my ppc detection isn't working
| |
| 13:37 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/annotate/head:?file_id=dhcpdk12linux.conf-20080129180034-aiosbwg7a1bwv42c-1
| |
| 13:37 | <vagrantc> it's worked for PXEClient vs. etherboot
| |
| 13:38 | <Gadi> ah - yeah this way with groups doesn't handle groups with two words
| |
| 13:38 | <warren> yes it did
| |
| 13:38 | <Gadi> like: Domain Users
| |
| 13:38 | <warren> if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 20, 3) = "ppc" {
| |
| 13:38 | 62 617 option root-path "172.31.100.254:/opt/ltsp/ppc";
| |
| 13:38 | vagrantc: this part isn't working
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> warren: I think they dropped IP from root-path
| |
| 13:40 | <ogra> warren, FC is shipping dhcpdv4 ?
| |
| 13:40 | <warren> ogra: for a while now
| |
| 13:40 | <vagrantc> Gadi: no, it was just broken in initramfs-tools in debian and ubuntu for a long time (ip in root-path)
| |
| 13:40 | <ogra> intresting, i didnt know it was released
| |
| 13:40 | <warren> ogra: since F-9
| |
| 13:41 | Gadi: no, that isn't the issue
| |
| 13:41 | Gadi: it always goes to the else no matter what
| |
| 13:41 | ltsppbot has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:41 | <ogra> vagrantc, long time ... like fixed a year ago though
| |
| 13:41 | <Gadi> warren: try creating a class instead
| |
| 13:41 | <warren> Gadi: yeah, that's what he suggested
| |
| 13:41 | <stgraber> well, we need to use "groups" as with the previous way of doing it, groups specified using /etc/security/groups.conf didn't appear
| |
| 13:42 | <Gadi> class "LTSP" {
| |
| 13:42 | match if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 4) = "LTSP";
| |
| 13:42 | }
| |
| 13:42 | <vagrantc> ogra: yes, i think i even am on a first name basis with the person who wrote the patch :)
| |
| 13:42 | <Gadi> like that
| |
| 13:42 | <stgraber> so if you use ldap and then add audio, fuse and video using pam_group that won't work
| |
| 13:42 | <warren> Gadi: does that work in v3?
| |
| 13:42 | <Gadi> yeah
| |
| 13:42 | I use classes all the time
| |
| 13:42 | and then allow/deny the class in IP pools
| |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> stgraber: actually, looks like the old way of setting groups was just as broken
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> you can just add another line to the class with the root-path option
| |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> though i really don't understand how it would be broken.
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| 13:43 | pmatulis has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:43 | <ogra> vagrantc, you talk to yourself nowadays ?
| |
| 13:43 | <warren> Gadi: wait... why does this redefine the vendor class identifier?
| |
| 13:43 | * warren has no friggin clue where this came from | |
| 13:43 | <vagrantc> ogra: when have i not?
| |
| 13:43 | <ogra> heh
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> romm@bart:~$ /usr/bin/groups | tr ' ' ','
| |
| 13:43 | Domain,Users,fuse,admin,sambashare,Domain,Admins
| |
| 13:43 | that is yucky
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> well, ok, it didn't have that breakage.
| |
| 13:44 | <Gadi> warren: anything with that identifier will belong to that class
| |
| 13:44 | <vagrantc> but it, for reasons i don't yet understand, doesn't properly handle when there's a gid mis-match between the server and the thin-client
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| 13:45 | rjune has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:47 | <vagrantc> gah. i think i missed the cut-off for uploading ...
| |
| 13:48 | another 12 hours or so ...
| |
| 13:49 | or i made it exactly...
| |
| 14:04 | <Gadi> vagrantc: if the chroot has a group with the same name as the server, it will use the chroot's group (as these are system groups)
| |
| 14:05 | for groups that the server has additionally, it will use the server's group
| |
| 14:05 | which gids are you comparing?
| |
| 14:06 | warren: I think the dev is objecting to the if/else syntax
| |
| 14:07 | not to the option line
| |
| 14:07 | stgraber: why does pam_group not honor getent?
| |
| 14:07 | that sounds like a bug in pam_group
| |
| 14:08 | <stgraber> Gadi: yeah, it may be an upstream bug but I need it to work, you know :)
| |
| 14:09 | <Gadi> either way, I would expect more users to use AD or smbldap than pam_groups
| |
| 14:09 | <ogra> stgraber, did you talk to slangasek ?
| |
| 14:09 | <Gadi> can we change the code to do both for now?
| |
| 14:12 | <warren> Gadi: no
| |
| 14:12 | Gadi: found the real cause
| |
| 14:12 | Gadi: the dhcp client in the initrd is doing dhcp again with a different vendor class identifier
| |
| 14:12 | <Gadi> ah
| |
| 14:13 | * Gadi has always advocated specifying the VCI ourselves in our initramfs | |
| 14:13 | * Gadi already does in his | |
| 14:13 | <Gadi> we should set it to: LTSP-$arch
| |
| 14:16 | Ahmuck has quit IRC | |
| 14:16 | <warren> Gadi: will defining a class allow it to "remember" the same machine and not give a different answer?
| |
| 14:16 | or not really?
| |
| 14:17 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:18 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 14:22 | <Gadi> remember the machine?
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| 14:22 | Ahmuck has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:22 | <Gadi> to give the same IP?
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| 14:24 | <ogra> it should get the same IP ... but it still wont send the same srting
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| 14:26 | <warren> yeah, there's no way to do this apparently.
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| 14:26 | ogra: does your initrd do its own DHCP request with hits own vendor class identifier?
| |
| 14:26 | * Gadi is unclear as to the goal | |
| 14:26 | <warren> its*
| |
| 14:26 | <Gadi> mine does
| |
| 14:26 | <warren> OH!
| |
| 14:27 | <Gadi> I set VCI = LTSP
| |
| 14:27 | <ogra> warren, it has to
| |
| 14:27 | the first request comes out of your HW
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> the upstream one and ubuntu one do not
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| 14:27 | <warren> Gadi: I'm the only one setting the root-path to mount during initrd from dhcp
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| 14:27 | <ogra> i.e. the PXE protocol
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| 14:27 | <warren> Gadi: I have no root-path hard coded in initrd image
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> right
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| 14:27 | neither do we
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| 14:27 | <ogra> the second one comes from ipconfig
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| 14:27 | <warren> huh?
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| 14:27 | <Gadi> I set a VCI
| |
| 14:28 | <warren> oh
| |
| 14:28 | <Gadi> not a root path
| |
| 14:28 | so, I know what VCI my client is sending
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| 14:28 | <warren> And your dhcp server is then able to tell which root-path to use?
| |
| 14:28 | <Gadi> and I can distinguish between LTSP clients and fat clients
| |
| 14:28 | what I proposed a long time ago was that we set our VCI's to LTSP-$arch
| |
| 14:29 | that way, we can use it to pass the appropriate root-path
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| 14:29 | (currently I only support i386)
| |
| 14:29 | <cliebow> Gadi!!god ol vci
| |
| 14:29 | <Gadi> *I* set the VCI because I set different ip pools whether it is a thin client or fat client
| |
| 14:29 | and I can deny all thin clients this way
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| 14:29 | cliebow has quit IRC | |
| 14:29 | <warren> oh
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| 14:29 | <Gadi> or deny all fat clients
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| 14:30 | thats why I have:
| |
| 14:30 | class "LTSP" {
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| 14:30 | match if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 4) = "LTSP";
| |
| 14:30 | }
| |
| 14:30 | <ogra> warren, for me in ubuntu its a bit different, since we dont use root-path at all with nbd
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| 14:30 | <Gadi> as well as:
| |
| 14:30 | class "PXE" {
| |
| 14:30 | match if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "PXEClient";
| |
| 14:30 | max-lease-time 1;
| |
| 14:30 | }
| |
| 14:30 | class "Etherboot" {
| |
| 14:30 | match if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "Etherboot";
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| 14:30 | max-lease-time 1;
| |
| 14:30 | }
| |
| 14:31 | <warren> Gadi: what kind of section is that within?
| |
| 14:31 | within a shared-network?
| |
| 14:31 | <Ahmuck> yesterday i had a high school student come in and try our test lab. this was his/her second login, and some key sequence threw them into language selection screen. this is an example of what we were disucssing aobut locking the options on the login screen. it was interesting to see this happen so quickly
| |
| 14:31 | <warren> Gadi: withing a subnet?
| |
| 14:31 | <Gadi> warren: global
| |
| 14:31 | I define classes globally
| |
| 14:31 | then, I have:
| |
| 14:31 | pool {
| |
| 14:31 | allow members of "PXE";
| |
| 14:31 | allow members of "Etherboot";
| |
| 14:31 | allow members of "LTSP";
| |
| 14:31 | within a subnet decl
| |
| 14:32 | (makes for cleaner code, too)
| |
| 14:33 | jammcq has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:33 | <jammcq> hello friends
| |
| 14:33 | * Gadi waves to jammcq | |
| 14:33 | <ogra> jammcq, !
| |
| 14:34 | <jammcq> ogra: hey, welcome back
| |
| 14:34 | <ogra> i lost my inner clock somewhere over the atlantic though ... still trying to find it
| |
| 14:35 | <jammcq> hmm, damned inner clock issues
| |
| 14:35 | you'll have to get that fixed
| |
| 14:37 | <ogra> yeah
| |
| 14:37 | :)
| |
| 14:37 | * ogra had one of his most scary flight experiences the way home | |
| 14:38 | elisboa_off is now known as elisboa | |
| 14:40 | <rjune> ogra, what happened?
| |
| 14:40 | <ogra> at 14000ft the captain told us they have issues to get the gear back in
| |
| 14:41 | so we flew to nevada and dumped fuel over the desert for 2h ...
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| 14:41 | <rjune> aie!
| |
| 14:41 | <ogra> then returned to SFO
| |
| 14:41 | and it wasnt really clear if the front gear was ok
| |
| 14:41 | <warren> jammcq: ping
| |
| 14:41 | jammcq: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/CpuArchitectures#LTSP_on_Latter_Day_Macintosh_G3
| |
| 14:41 | jammcq: it says that you figured this out before
| |
| 14:42 | <ogra> warren, i think cliebow is the G3 guy
| |
| 14:42 | <warren> ogra: it mentions Jim
| |
| 14:42 | <ogra> might be but i see cliebow working on ppc stuff since years :)
| |
| 14:42 | <warren> jammcq: ppc imac -> yaboot downloads kernel and initrd, initrd itself does DHCP again with a vendor client identifier of "nash", dhcp server thinks it is a different request so it has no way of knowing it is a mac.
| |
| 14:42 | <ogra> he should be your best resource of info
| |
| 14:43 | <jammcq> warren: cliebow and I worked on it together. I don't have any of the hardware. if I recall correctly, we were able to figure out exactly what the mac needed in the vendor encapsulation. once we stuffed that into the dhcpd.conf file, things started working
| |
| 14:43 | <ogra> if substring (option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 9) = "AAPLBSDPC" {
| |
| 14:43 | filename "/ltsp/yaboot";
| |
| 14:43 | option vendor-class-identifier "AAPLBSDPC";
| |
| 14:43 | option vendor-encapsulated-options
| |
| 14:43 | 01:01:02:08:04:01:00:00:01:82:05:69:6d:61:63:34;
| |
| 14:43 | }
| |
| 14:43 | <warren> jammcq: what does # OS and # hostname mean on that page?
| |
| 14:43 | <ogra> that one i guess
| |
| 14:43 | <jammcq> where?
| |
| 14:44 | <warren> jammcq: http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/CpuArchitectures#LTSP_on_Latter_Day_Macintosh_G3
| |
| 14:44 | <ogra> since thats what i got from you ages ago for mac support
| |
| 14:44 | <warren> ogra: where is that from?
| |
| 14:44 | <ogra> warren, cliebow
| |
| 14:44 | nicoAMG has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:44 | <warren> ogra: fun thing... OFW on this mac cannot download tftp from a directory
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| 14:44 | <ogra> yeah, you said so yesterday
| |
| 14:44 | <warren> jammcq: why does it set option vendorclass-identifier within it?
| |
| 14:44 | <ogra> just change the filename directive to something that matches
| |
| 14:46 | <vagrantc> gah. my upload of ltsp to experimental missed the deadline to get uploaded by about 35 seconds.
| |
| 14:46 | <jammcq> warren: '69:6d:61:63:34' = 'imac4'
| |
| 14:47 | I'm thinking that's the hostname that gets assigned to the workstation
| |
| 14:47 | <warren> jammcq: hmm, you haven't had the problem of initrd doing dhcp again itself?
| |
| 14:47 | <jammcq> ummmm
| |
| 14:48 | * Gadi desperately needs entropy | |
| 14:48 | <jammcq> I'm wondering who wrote that page, cuz they spelled my name wrong
| |
| 14:49 | <warren> jammcq: what is the purpose of option vendor-class-identifier "AAPLBSDPC"; ?
| |
| 14:49 | jammcq: that looks like setting instead of detecting
| |
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| 14:50 | <jammcq> warren: sorry, I really don't remember how all that stuff works
| |
| 14:52 | <warren> jammcq: I think I ran into a limitation of our particular initrd
| |
| 14:52 | jammcq: back then you did it, it didn't actually use the root-path from dhcp server right?
| |
| 14:53 | <jammcq> ummmm
| |
| 14:53 | dunno
| |
| 14:53 | <ogra> sure it did
| |
| 14:53 | at least for me it did back when we used nfs in ubuntu
| |
| 14:54 | <warren> jammcq: any idea where those vendor encapsulated options came from? I see many different examples of that online and they are all different
| |
| 14:55 | <jammcq> I think we sniffed them on the wire by watching a mac boot from a mac server
| |
| 14:55 | <warren> ogra: but how can it get the correct root-path if it ran dhcp request again?
| |
| 14:55 | ogra: with the incorrect VCI
| |
| 14:56 | <ogra> warren, iirc because it sends the vendor-encapsulated-options string
| |
| 14:56 | <EAG> *sigh*
| |
| 14:56 | <warren> I think that's actually unrelated
| |
| 14:56 | <ogra> but thats really two or more years ago for me ... i dont remember completely
| |
| 14:56 | <EAG> where does the xorg.conf come from which the client automagically seem to load?
| |
| 14:56 | <ogra> we dont support ppc in ubuntu since a while anymore
| |
| 14:56 | <EAG> this is hillarious
| |
| 14:56 | <ogra> EAG, it creates it
| |
| 14:56 | dmaran has quit IRC | |
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| 14:57 | <warren> EAG: if you run X without a xorg.conf it tries to autoconfig itself
| |
| 14:57 | EAG: LTSP has an override thing that writes its own xorg.conf based upon lts.conf options
| |
| 14:57 | <EAG> it wont boot properly without my own xorg-ltsp.conf-file, but when it has booted it still uses some other xorg.conf... according to Xorg.6.log
| |
| 14:58 | I use X_CONF=/etc/X11/xorg-ltsp.conf in my lts.conf
| |
| 14:58 | <ogra> EAG, you set CONFIGURE_X=False
| |
| 14:58 | right ?
| |
| 14:58 | <EAG> yes
| |
| 14:58 | <ogra> and you dont have /etc/X11/xorg.conf
| |
| 14:58 | <EAG> and if I let it autoconfig it wont find my monitor properly (its fucked, edid doesnt work)
| |
| 14:58 | <ogra> in your chroot
| |
| 14:59 | <EAG> I have one, but it doesnt contain anything worth speaking of... if I look into the xorg.conf while on the client though, then it is a completely different xorg.conf
| |
| 14:59 | <ogra> remove it
| |
| 15:00 | <EAG> allright
| |
| 15:00 | <ogra> and dont forget ltsp-update-image
| |
| 15:00 | <EAG> what I really would love to know is why it thinks I have a synaptics touchpad
| |
| 15:03 | Ahmuck has quit IRC | |
| 15:04 | * rjune kicks Gadi | |
| 15:04 | <Gadi> ow
| |
| 15:05 | <rjune> there's some entropy
| |
| 15:05 | you weren't expecting that were you? ;-)
| |
| 15:05 | <Gadi> entropy is not about expectations
| |
| 15:05 | <EAG> btw... module-detect.c seems to fail to detect sound now...
| |
| 15:05 | weird
| |
| 15:05 | <Gadi> its about not cleaning up your room
| |
| 15:05 | <EAG> nothing has changed really
| |
| 15:05 | <rjune> heh
| |
| 15:06 | rjune has quit IRC | |
| 15:10 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 15:11 | <EAG> hmm nah.. the client still thinks it should autoconfig a xorg.conf of its own
| |
| 15:12 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:12 | <EAG> no xorg.conf exists in /etc/X11 now, but it has been created when I look in the client
| |
| 15:12 | and in Xorg.6.log
| |
| 15:12 | any ideas?
| |
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> stgraber: http://incoming.debian.org/ltsp_5.1.40.orig.tar.gz
| |
| 15:47 | <stgraber> vagrantc: thanks
| |
| 15:48 | <vagrantc> 35 seconds... *sigh*
| |
| 15:55 | <ogra> ??
| |
| 15:55 | warren has quit IRC | |
| 15:55 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:56 | <vagrantc> ogra: i have to wait till the next upload run in about 11 hours ... missed this run by about 35 seconds...
| |
| 15:56 | <ogra> wow, you have long sequences in debian
| |
| 15:59 | rjune has joined #ltsp | |
| 15:59 | <Gadi> Ryan52: dont suppose you want to add a --progress to ldm-dialog :)
| |
| 16:00 | * Gadi decided to go the route of having the user supply the entropy and has a dialog showing the amount of entropy relative to the total required | |
| 16:02 | ogra has quit IRC | |
| 16:02 | * Ryan52 wonders what Gadi is talking about | |
| 16:02 | alkisg has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:02 | ogra has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:03 | BrunoXLambert has quit IRC | |
| 16:03 | <Gadi> oh, just a --progress
| |
| 16:03 | like in zenity
| |
| 16:03 | :)
| |
| 16:04 | <Ryan52> no, I mean, why do you need it?
| |
| 16:04 | <Gadi> oh
| |
| 16:04 | thats a bit of a long story
| |
| 16:04 | * Ryan52 is just curious | |
| 16:04 | <Gadi> hehe
| |
| 16:04 | do you know what entropy is?
| |
| 16:04 | <Ryan52> ya
| |
| 16:05 | <Gadi> so, basically, /dev/random - which is used as the RNG for Citrix client - is blocking until it has sufficient entropy
| |
| 16:05 | our thin clients have very little entropy on boot
| |
| 16:05 | because the only sources of entropy it has are by user intervention
| |
| 16:05 | like moving mouse, typing
| |
| 16:06 | so, if you try to use an encrypted ICA connection and there is not enough entropy, the application will simply wait
| |
| 16:06 | until there is
| |
| 16:06 | so, I have a dialog that has a meter of how much entropy the system has
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| 16:07 | and it tells the user to move the mouse until the system has sufficient entropy
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| 16:07 | (not in those words, of course)
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| 16:07 | <Ryan52> okay, I might do it later then...it wouldn't be that hard :)
| |
| 16:07 | gotta go, be back later.
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| 16:07 | <Gadi> cool
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| 16:07 | johnny has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:10 | <alkisg> CAN-o-SPAM: I don't know if you're the right person to ask this, but then again, I don't know who else to ask! :) I've registered a launchpad team with a name of "ltsp.sch.gr". I selected this to reflect that it will host GReek SCHool LTSP - related projects. Can I use the LTSP name, or is it a violation of the copyright, and I should change it?
| |
| 16:18 | <CAN-o-SPAM> alkisg: could you please send me an e-mail @ alexc@disklessworkstations.com ? I don't initially see it as a problem, but i need to review what your doing and don't have time to at the moment
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| 16:18 | <alkisg> CAN-o-SPAM: will do, thanks
| |
| 16:18 | <CAN-o-SPAM> thanks for askign.
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| 16:19 | <jammcq> alkisg: it's not a copyright issue. it's a trademark issue
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> jammcq: my english is not so good, and my law-knowledge is worse, so I can't tell the difference! :)
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| 16:20 | <jammcq> no prob
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| 16:21 | <CAN-o-SPAM> hey jam, the guy heading this event tomorrow (dug song), suggested that where we are going might be a good place to host a free hackfest
| |
| 16:22 | might keep our eyes open for that
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| 16:22 | <jammcq> hmm
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| 16:22 | CAN-o-SPAM: do you have the instructions of where we are going?
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| 16:23 | <CAN-o-SPAM> you need address? i don't know about this korean place, but the event is at: Cottage Inn Pizza, 2nd Floor, 512 E William St, Ann Arbor
| |
| 16:23 | <jammcq> ooh
| |
| 16:23 | bring that address with you
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| 16:24 | <CAN-o-SPAM> will do
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| 16:24 | six2one has quit IRC | |
| 16:24 | <CAN-o-SPAM> gotta jet, c u 2morrow
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| 16:24 | nubae has left #ltsp | |
| 16:24 | CAN-o-SPAM has quit IRC | |
| 16:26 | nicoAMG has quit IRC | |
| 16:30 | <EAG> why does the client have a Xorg.1.log?
| |
| 16:30 | <Gadi> EAG: if you set CONFIGURE_X=True, it will have that
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| 16:31 | <EAG> I have one no matter what
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| 16:31 | <Gadi> because it runs an X -configure :1
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| 16:31 | <johnny> that's cuz CONFIGURE_X=True is default on hardy
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| 16:32 | <EAG> but I have one even if I set it to false
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| 16:32 | <johnny> who cares..
| |
| 16:32 | lol
| |
| 16:32 | <EAG> its just like as if the lts.conf isnt read
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| 16:32 | I care?
| |
| 16:32 | I cant get this to work as I want it to...
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| 16:32 | <Gadi> do you have a syntax error in your lts.conf?
| |
| 16:32 | if you do, it won't read any of it
| |
| 16:32 | paste your lts.conf
| |
| 16:33 | !pastebot
| |
| 16:33 | <ltspbot`> Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
| |
| 16:33 | <johnny> Gadi, it'd be nice if it yelled louder about a badly parsed lts.conf
| |
| 16:34 | <Gadi> that should be an easy fix
| |
| 16:35 | <ltsppbot> "EAG" pasted "[DEFAULT] CONFIGURE_X = True L" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/142
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| 16:36 | <Gadi> try putting double quotes around /etc/X11/xorg-ltsp2.conf
| |
| 16:36 | <EAG> ok
| |
| 16:36 | <Gadi> or, even better - if you have a shell on the client, type: getltscfg -a
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| 16:36 | <ogra> LOCALDEV = True
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| 16:36 | SOUND = True
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| 16:36 | both not needed
| |
| 16:36 | they are default values
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| 16:37 | <EAG> okay
| |
| 16:37 | <ogra> and the default section might be case sensitive
| |
| 16:37 | <johnny> isn't it lowercase default?
| |
| 16:37 | yeah
| |
| 16:37 | <ogra> i.e. [default]
| |
| 16:37 | the vars definately arent ... but the sections might be
| |
| 16:40 | <EAG> maybe I can focus on getting fglrx to load properly instead... from Xorg.6.log it seems like that the autoconfig finds all hardware etc...
| |
| 16:42 | <Gadi> EAG: u mean for compiz?
| |
| 16:43 | or opengl?
| |
| 16:43 | <alkisg> About [default]/[Default]: both are working.
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| 16:43 | <Gadi> alkisg: and DEFAULT?
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| 16:43 | <alkisg> Gadi: I don't know, but could it really be different?
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| 16:44 | <Gadi> depends how jammcq coded it way back when
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| 16:44 | <alkisg> OK :)
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| 16:46 | <ogra> Gadi, for xvideo
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| 16:46 | <Gadi> he needs to install the mesa stuff in the chroot
| |
| 16:46 | <warren> hmm
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| 16:46 | <ogra> thats installed
| |
| 16:47 | GL works out of the box with intel HW
| |
| 16:47 | <warren> I need to find an explanation of the vendor-encapsulated-options
| |
| 16:47 | I want it to boot like the example on http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/CpuArchitectures#LTSP_on_Latter_Day_Macintosh_G3 without setting a hostname
| |
| 16:47 | <Gadi> well, compiz checks the server's /var/log/Xorg.0.log to see if it is capable
| |
| 16:47 | he can try copying his client's Xorg log file to the server
| |
| 16:48 | * ogra didnt talk about compiz :) | |
| 16:48 | <Gadi> right - but mat be similar?
| |
| 16:48 | <ogra> i talked about GL support
| |
| 16:48 | i dont even think you need any mesa stuff for composite
| |
| 16:48 | <Gadi> well, it is also driver dependent
| |
| 16:48 | nubae has joined #ltsp | |
| 16:49 | <Gadi> he may not get opengl with acceleration
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| 16:49 | tinpardo has quit IRC | |
| 16:49 | <Gadi> (which might be what xvideo needs)
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| 16:49 | <warren> hmm, simply removing the length and hostname made it boot
| |
| 16:49 | * Gadi shrugs | |
| 16:49 | <warren> so this might work...
| |
| 16:50 | Gadi: do you have any idea how to match in dhcpd.conf on a range of mac addresses?
| |
| 16:50 | <Gadi> a range of mac addresses?
| |
| 16:50 | just make a host decl for each mac addy
| |
| 16:50 | <loather-work> yeah, i don't think you can do a range of macaddrs
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| 16:50 | <Gadi> in a separate group
| |
| 16:51 | <warren> I want a wide range, like everything that begins with XX:XX:XX
| |
| 16:51 | <loather-work> it'd be kinda nice if it had something ala bind's $GENERATE syntax
| |
| 16:51 | <Gadi> you might be able to create a class that matches on mac addres
| |
| 16:52 | like:
| |
| 16:52 | <warren> if binary-to-ascii (16, 8, "-", substring (hardware, 0, 4)) = "1-0-16-3e" {
| |
| 16:52 | Not exactly what I want
| |
| 16:52 | I want an actual range
| |
| 16:52 | like number wise
| |
| 16:53 | <Gadi> mathc if (substring (fixed-address, 0, 8) = "aa:bb:cc");
| |
| 16:53 | oops
| |
| 16:53 | I meant hardware
| |
| 16:54 | <loather-work> yeah. that might actually work.
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| 16:54 | <Gadi> you may need "hardware ethernet"
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| 16:54 | if you specify by octets
| |
| 16:55 | <warren> oooh
| |
| 16:55 | this isn't too bad
| |
| 16:55 | <loather-work> yeah, otherwise it has the ethertype prefix associated with it
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| 16:55 | <warren> Apple has only a few MAC prefixes
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| 16:55 | http://pastebin.com/m6cc2ed07
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| 16:55 | crap... this matches against Intel Mac's too I bet.
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| 16:56 | <loather-work> you know what i would do that'd make it even easier? stick the wonky terminals on their own VLAN
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| 16:56 | chrisinajar is now known as chrisinanoffice | |
| 16:56 | <loather-work> then use a helper address on the switch to handle dhcp
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| 16:56 | * Gadi doesnt know why you dont just set your own VCI | |
| 16:56 | <Gadi> and call it a day
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| 16:56 | <warren> Gadi: can't
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| 16:56 | <Gadi> why not?
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| 16:57 | <warren> Gadi: can't modify the initrd tool from 3 years ago
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> u have no control over the initrd?
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| 16:57 | <warren> gotta go now, commuting
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> doesnt the tool pull in scripts?
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| 16:57 | <vagrantc> Gadi: do you use klibc's ipconfig as a dhcp client, or some other client?
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| 16:57 | <warren> Gadi: nope
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> vagrantc: ipconfig
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> I kinda patched the source, because I was too lazy to see if it had a flag
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| 16:57 | <vagrantc> Gadi: how do you do it? :)
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> :)
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 16:58 | <Gadi> changed the default in the source
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| 16:58 | and I only did that, because it had another bug that I needed to fix
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| 16:58 | <vagrantc> that's a feature we should really get upstreamed...
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| 16:58 | well, configureable, that is
| |
| 16:58 | <Gadi> it may have it
| |
| 16:58 | it was hard to find good docs
| |
| 16:58 | bec it is klibc
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| 16:58 | :P
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| 16:59 | <vagrantc> klibc is sparse with the docs, yes.
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| 16:59 | that's how it gets to be so tiny!
| |
| 16:59 | <Gadi> if my C were better
| |
| 16:59 | ...
| |
| 16:59 | ;)
| |
| 16:59 | <vagrantc> if my C were better ...
| |
| 16:59 | <rjune_> you both have wonderful C
| |
| 17:00 | * vagrantc is a cargo cult C coder | |
| 17:00 | <rjune_> LOL
| |
| 17:00 | <vagrantc> or maybe i'm a shaman, with an inkling of actual understanding
| |
| 17:01 | <alkisg> Gadi: if you even need help with klibc ipconfig, I spend some weeks over its source, so I may help.\
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| 17:01 | <loather-work> the code comes out of spirit walks with vim
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| 17:01 | <Gadi> alkisg: cool - can you pass a flag to it to modify the VCI?
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| 17:02 | (like every other dhcp client)
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> Gadi: and VCI stands for.... ?
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| 17:02 | <Gadi> vendor-class-identifier
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| 17:02 | <alkisg> Ah... sure, pretty easy. A command line option?
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| 17:02 | <Gadi> it is a field that is modifiable by the vendor
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| 17:02 | yeah
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| 17:02 | the option may already exist
| |
| 17:02 | and be undocumented
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| 17:02 | :)
| |
| 17:02 | <alkisg> Gadi: no, I didn't see any option
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| 17:03 | <Gadi> ah, ok
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| 17:03 | <alkisg> But pick a letter! Is "v" ok?
| |
| 17:03 | <Gadi> then, I would do "i"
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| 17:03 | if available
| |
| 17:03 | <alkisg> Let me see...
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| 17:03 | <Gadi> that is usually the flag
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| 17:03 | or -I
| |
| 17:03 | (capital)
| |
| 17:05 | btw: debian/ubuntu guys - I have some code that uses mii-tool/ethtool in the ltsp-nbd script to use the interface that is connected (if there are multiple NICs in the client) - is that of use?
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Gadi: these are used: c = getopt(argc, argv, "c:d:i:onp:t:r:");
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| 17:05 | <Gadi> ah
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> c : d : i
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| 17:05 | <Gadi> so they already use i
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| 17:05 | <alkisg> Yeap
| |
| 17:05 | * Gadi wonders what for? | |
| 17:06 | <alkisg> Let me find the help page...
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| 17:06 | <Gadi> good luck
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| 17:06 | jammcq has quit IRC | |
| 17:07 | <alkisg> Gadi: http://codtech.com/wiki/index.php/Ipconfig
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| 17:07 | Hehe
| |
| 17:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: would be useful to see, yes.
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| 17:07 | <alkisg> There *is* a vendor identifier... :)
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| 17:07 | <Gadi> beautiful
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| 17:07 | :)
| |
| 17:07 | then, we should modify ltsp-nbd with that, as well
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| 17:07 | IMHO
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| 17:09 | <vagrantc> yes!
| |
| 17:10 | now, how to get it into upstream initramfs-tools and such ...
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| 17:10 | <Gadi> vagrantc: we dont need to
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| 17:10 | we are upstream
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| 17:11 | we call ipconfig in lts-nbd
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> not in debian
| |
| 17:11 | still use NFS
| |
| 17:11 | but i've had good luck getting patches into initramfs-tools
| |
| 17:11 | <Gadi> ah - and you dont have your own nfs script?
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| 17:11 | <vagrantc> i'd like to avoid it, yes.
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| 17:12 | and debian also uses the initramfs-tools scripts for NBD from nbd-client for some of the possible ways to configure NBD in debian
| |
| 17:13 | ltsp_nbd is used when NBD+squashfs+aufs is used, though
| |
| 17:13 | * alkisg still wonders why isn't uclibc preferred over klibc... | |
| 17:14 | <rjune_> dunno
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| 17:15 | <ogra> Gadi, is mii-tool in the initramfs already ?
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| 17:15 | <rjune_> uclibc is pretty damn slick
| |
| 17:15 | <ogra> no option in ubuntu
| |
| 17:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i don't think it's even in debian ... my guess would be liscensing issues, since it's been around so long
| |
| 17:15 | <alkisg> rjune_: much, much, much more stable / bugfree / readable code
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> vagrantc: gnu lgpl... ???
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| 17:16 | <ogra> and puts extra maintenance on your team if you dont have it already ... the advantage of klibc is that it is maintained inside glibc
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| 17:17 | so if you have a glibc maintainer you get klibc for free ...
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| 17:18 | doesnt uclibc also requires special linking and rebuilds of everything you want to use with it ?
| |
| 17:18 | <alkisg> ogra, in my opinion, klibc has many more bugs than uclibc, and that alone makes more difficult to maintain... Anyway, I'll stop talking since I haven't done any linux programming yet. :)
| |
| 17:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sometimes, if authors didn't properly state their liscensing, and they can't or work correct their mistakes, it may interfere with the ability to distribute it ... like 1 out of 10 files has it's liscense, and one just doesn't contain the appropriate information
| |
| 17:19 | <alkisg> I see... that would be a serious problem, yeap
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| 17:19 | <vagrantc> ogra: klibc requires custom builds for everything
| |
| 17:19 | but it ships everything
| |
| 17:20 | <ogra> alkisg, well, it might not be the lib itself but the overhead you produce through rebuiling the world
| |
| 17:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i'm purely speculating on why...
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| 17:20 | <Gadi> ogra: no, I add a hook for it
| |
| 17:20 | and ethtool
| |
| 17:20 | <ogra> vagrantc, right, but klibc is binary compatible with glibc afaik
| |
| 17:20 | <Gadi> (some network drivers are broken with one or the other)
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| 17:20 | <EAG> Gadi: no, I am not using compiz, but I want xvideo to work
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| 17:20 | <ogra> so you easily can use ethtool in initramfs without rebuilding it :)
| |
| 17:20 | <Gadi> thats cool
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| 17:21 | <ogra> Gadi, so go ahead :)
| |
| 17:21 | <rjune_> binary compatble is it's big feature?
| |
| 17:21 | <vagrantc> i'm pretty sure glibc is still shipped in the initramfs, and that's why you don't have to rebuild
| |
| 17:21 | <rjune_> admittedly, that's a big feature.
| |
| 17:21 | <johnny> uclibc.. go ..
| |
| 17:21 | <ogra> vagrantc, but i dont think you have to afaik
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| 17:22 | <Gadi> ok - gotta run
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| 17:22 | * vagrantc can't see any reason for shipping glibc if you didn't actually have to | |
| 17:22 | <Gadi> night all
| |
| 17:22 | Gadi has left #ltsp | |
| 17:22 | <rjune_> night Gadi
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| 17:22 | vagrantc: depends on your reqs
| |
| 17:22 | <ogra> vagrantc, what rjune says
| |
| 17:22 | <vagrantc> i suppose
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| 17:22 | <alkisg> johnny: my USR9108 router uses uclibc, AFAIK... :)
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| 17:22 | <ogra> there are apps that use specific glibc stuff
| |
| 17:22 | <rjune_> for a full distro, use glibc
| |
| 17:23 | for embedded stuff, uclibc + busybox looks attractive
| |
| 17:23 | <ogra> and initramfs-tools is designed in a way that you can add everything
| |
| 17:23 | thats its big advantage
| |
| 17:24 | <rjune_> glibc you mean?
| |
| 17:24 | <ogra> initramfs-tools i mean
| |
| 17:24 | <rjune_> ah, ok
| |
| 17:25 | <ogra> the thing that builds our initramfs in ubuntu and debian
| |
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| 17:39 | <vagrantc> stgraber, ogra: other than the DHCPPORT feature, i think you could replace much of ltsp_nbd with the configure_network function in initramfs-tools
| |
| 17:39 | and DHCPPORT and VCI stuff we should try to get upstreamed
| |
| 17:40 | <ogra> upstreamed to ?
| |
| 17:40 | <vagrantc> initramfs-tools
| |
| 17:42 | <ogra> ah
| |
| 17:42 | yeah
| |
| 17:42 | <alkisg> What good thing are you cooking with VCI? Maybe force ipconfig to only accept answers from the ltsp dhcp server?
| |
| 17:43 | <ogra> well, gadi's stuff works the other way round
| |
| 17:43 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "use configure_networking from initramfs-tools" (52 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/143
| |
| 17:43 | <ogra> and sends a LTSP VCI
| |
| 17:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: making it easier to identify which clients are LTSP clients
| |
| 17:43 | alkisg: and possibly architecture
| |
| 17:44 | <alkisg> vagrantc, and what's wrong with the existing "Linux ipconfig"? - ah, ok...
| |
| 17:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we have no idea if it's LTSP or not...
| |
| 17:44 | <ogra> vagrantc, aaah, i was wondering how configure_networking replaces the nbd and squashfs mounting :D
| |
| 17:44 | yeah, that looks good
| |
| 17:44 | <vagrantc> you'd loose DHCPPORT, at least until you got it into initramfs-tools
| |
| 17:45 | <ogra> well, there are only some weird guys that use DHCPPORT ... alkisg is one of them iirc :P
| |
| 17:45 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 17:45 | <alkisg> ogra, not since I found out about IPAPPEND 3! :P
| |
| 17:45 | <ogra> ah !
| |
| 17:45 | so we can drop it :)
| |
| 17:45 | <vagrantc> IPAPPEND rocks the house.
| |
| 17:45 | <alkisg> And got rid of all the ipconfig bugs...
| |
| 17:46 | <vagrantc> and i'll work on getting the VCI stuff into initramfs-tools... somehow...
| |
| 17:46 | <ogra> could we have a translation function DHCPPORT-> IPAPPEND
| |
| 17:46 | ?
| |
| 17:46 | <vagrantc> IPAPPEND happens in pxelinux
| |
| 17:47 | so there's only a single DHCP request
| |
| 17:47 | <ogra> oh, i thought that was IPCONFIG
| |
| 17:47 | <alkisg> ogra, but some may use an external dhcp server
| |
| 17:47 | <vagrantc> the DHCPPORT handling in ltsp_nbd looks a little weird ...
| |
| 17:47 | <alkisg> pxelinux passes the ip as a kernel parameter, and then ipconfig gets it and doesn't ask for a new dhcp request
| |
| 17:48 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, ask laga ... if he ever shows up again
| |
| 17:48 | he needed it in teh mythbuntu thinclient
| |
| 17:48 | but in the end copied ltsp_nbd anyway
| |
| 17:49 | <vagrantc> i'll try and get VCI and the DHCPPORT stuff into initramfs-tools in debian
| |
| 17:49 | and either patch around it in debian, or commit it upstream ...
| |
| 17:49 | in ltsp-trunk
| |
| 17:50 | <ogra> sounds ok to me
| |
| 17:51 | i dont personally use VCI anywhere and dont know anyone who does ...
| |
| 17:51 | apart from the person who implemented it
| |
| 17:51 | and the same goes for DHCPPORT
| |
| 17:52 | <alkisg> I only use it to enable my dhcp server to give IPs to ltsp clients, but not to windows clients. So the default "Linux ipconfig" is fine for me...
| |
| 17:52 | <vagrantc> i can see some believeable (though unfortunate) use cases for both options
| |
| 17:52 | <ogra> sure
| |
| 17:52 | <alkisg> vagrantc, aren't there better ways to check for the client hardware than to patch ipconfig?
| |
| 17:52 | <ogra> but neither is widely documented anyway
| |
| 17:53 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no patches to ipconfig needed
| |
| 17:53 | at least on debian lenny ... can't imagine ubuntu is behind much
| |
| 17:53 | <alkisg> Oh, yeap
| |
| 17:53 | ipconfig -i, forgot already...
| |
| 17:53 | <vagrantc> just need to patch initramfs-tools to make use of it
| |
| 17:53 | alkisg: you're the one who discovered it! :)
| |
| 17:54 | <alkisg> It'll a little late, and after 4 beers my head is not thinking quite straight... :)
| |
| 17:54 | <ogra> not even 1am
| |
| 17:54 | come on
| |
| 17:54 | <alkisg> 1:54 :)
| |
| 17:54 | <ogra> and its greek beer, isnt it ?
| |
| 17:54 | <alkisg> You're one hour behind! :)
| |
| 17:54 | <ogra> pfft
| |
| 17:54 | <alkisg> 2 of them were
| |
| 17:54 | <ogra> and two beer behind :)
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| 17:55 | brendan0powers has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:55 | <alkisg> Ok, German beers are larger, I'll give you that!
| |
| 17:55 | * vagrantc forgets the rudiments of git | |
| 17:55 | * ogra doesnt want to remember any rudiments of git | |
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| 18:04 | <alkisg> Wow... I'm the only one on the internet that checks for substring(option vendor-class-identifier, 0, 14) = "Linux ipconfig"...
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| 18:21 | <ogra> well, you are just smarter than the others :)
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| 18:24 | <alkisg> :P
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| 18:32 | <vagrantc> ok, i think i have a patch to add support for DHCPPORT and DHCPVCI to initramfs-tools in debian ...
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| 18:34 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "initramfs-tools support for setting DHCPPORT and DHCPVCI" (49 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/144
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| 18:38 | <ogra> looks good to me
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| 18:40 | <warren> Anyone have any Intel Macs?
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| 18:56 | <rjune_> warren: no, but I'll take one. ;-)
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| 18:56 | ogra: speaking of beer, did you think the stouts I sent were particularly strong?
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| 18:57 | <ogra> average i'd say
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| 18:57 | but then i'm used to german beer
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| 18:57 | for american they were strong :)
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| 18:59 | <rjune_> it was very strong for the mass market american stuff
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| 18:59 | <ogra> yeah
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| 18:59 | <rjune_> don't be fooled though, US microbrew is pretty good.
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| 18:59 | <ogra> yeah, i know
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| 18:59 | though i'm usually fine with sam adams or anchor steam if i have to pick a bottled one
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| 19:00 | <rjune_> ugh, sam adams?
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| 19:00 | I would tell you to at least have a Becks, but I think you get that at home. :-)
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| 19:01 | <ogra> yes and i dont drink it here either :)
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| 19:01 | <rjune_> LOL
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> dark.
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| 19:02 | <ogra> dark ?
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| 19:02 | <rjune_> I like becks dark
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| 19:02 | <ogra> ah
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| 19:02 | thats only exported, you dont get it in germany
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| 19:02 | <vagrantc> y'all talking about drinks, all i can say is "dark."
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| 19:02 | <rjune_> oh, sorry to hear that
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| 19:02 | <ogra> i dont think it matches the regulations
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> beer purity laws of 18somethingorother?
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| 19:03 | <ogra> rather 16somethingorother :)
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| 19:04 | or even 14somethingorother
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| 19:04 | its pretty old
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| 19:04 | if there is sugar in it you cant call it beer ;)
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| 19:04 | hop, malt, water ...
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| 19:07 | <rjune_> all beer has sugar in it.
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| 19:08 | <ogra> as a base ingredient ?
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| 19:08 | german beer doesnt
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| 19:08 | <rjune_> yes it does.
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| 19:08 | <ogra> most american beer i know does though
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| 19:08 | <rjune_> what do you think the yeast eats to make alcohol?
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| 19:08 | malting the barley turns the starches in the seeds to sugar
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| 19:08 | <vagrantc> the ambient sugars in the initial ingredients?
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| 19:09 | <ogra> right
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| 19:09 | glucosis from the malt
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| 19:09 | glucose ?
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| 19:09 | the boiling sets it free
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| 19:10 | <rjune_> and becks claims that all their beer's adhere to Reinheitsgebot.
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| 19:10 | not the boiling, steeping is more like it
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| 19:10 | ~ 150F for a while
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| 19:11 | the boiling comes after
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| 19:11 | <ogra> wow
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| 19:11 | i just looked it up
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| 19:12 | it exists since 1156
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| 19:12 | <rjune_> yeah, you germans take your beer *VERY* seriously.
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| 19:12 | <ogra> though written as a law in 1487
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| 19:12 | and established german wide in 1493
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| 19:14 | so its malt, hop, yeast and water
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| 19:15 | <rjune_> and amended to allowed cultured yeast in the late 1900s
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| 19:15 | specifically barley malt
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| 19:15 | the Reinheitsgebot killed off a lot of brewing traditions.
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| 19:15 | <ogra> there are sorts that allow sugar apparently ... the wheat beers may have a certain minimal amount
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| 19:16 | <rjune_> that's technically not compliant though
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| 19:17 | <ogra> the yeast used in these sorts requires it
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| 19:17 | <ogra> but in the common german plsener no sugar is allowed
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| 19:17 | <rjune_> yup.
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| 19:17 | but no wheat is allowed either.
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| 19:18 | <ogra> indeed :)
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| 19:18 | <rjune_> I've got most of the stuff to do a batch of beer from grain.
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| 19:18 | <ogra> its intresting that all the sorts they list in the sugar allowed sorts are fully local
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| 19:18 | Kölsch, Alt, Weizenbier, Bönnsch, Degraa, Gose, Dampfbier, Berliner Weiße, Ale, Lüttje-Lage-Bier
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| 19:19 | the last one is from where i come from
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| 19:19 | and inst used anywhere outside the area
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| 19:19 | same goes for Kölsch in germany
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| 19:19 | alt is also very local
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| 19:20 | but you at least find it somewhere else
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| 19:20 | i never heard of "Bönnsch, Degraa, Gose, Dampfbier" :)
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| 19:20 | and have never seen german ale in germany
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| 19:20 | * stgraber just installed Jaunty on his laptop, now the boring task of reinstalling only the useful bits of my previous install | |
| 19:20 | <rjune_> heh
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| 19:21 | Guest99531 is now known as johnny | |
| 19:22 | <ogra> Berliner Weiße is pretty special ... you only drink it with woodruff or strawberry syrup
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| 19:30 | <Nubae-laptop> /join #edubuntu
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| 19:31 | oops
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| 20:35 | <dberkholz> warren, ogra, vagrantc: seen this initramfs-related thing, dracut? http://lwn.net/Articles/311890/
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| 20:36 | <warren> dberkholz: yes
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| 20:36 | dberkholz: entirely new design, hopefully will be worked on at kernel.org
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| 20:36 | <dberkholz> heh, of course warren's seen it.
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| 20:36 | Jeremy Katz <katzj@redhat.com>
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| 20:36 | <warren> I haven't seen it, I only heard about it.
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| 20:37 | * dberkholz mentions it to our releng guy | |
| 20:50 | <johnny> yay.. drop the mkinitrd!
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| 20:53 | <warren> he's been thinking about how to redo it from scratch for years
| |
| 20:55 | <johnny> gentoo's initramfs is particularly bad.. it loads all the modules in sequence.. which make the boot take forever..
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| 20:55 | it needs to do it in parallel
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| 20:55 | using udev of course.. seems the smart way. except for certain devices..
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| 20:56 | <warren> Ryan52: progress of what?
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| 20:57 | <Nubae-laptop> johnny: u tried empathy?
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| 20:57 | <Ryan52> warren, I still don't know...:)
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| 20:57 | <Nubae-laptop> I installed from intrepid ppa and its very nice, foundations of good collaboration
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| 20:58 | <warren> I obviously haven't tried empathy. =)
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| 20:58 | <johnny> no.. empathy has very poor xmpp support
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| 20:58 | i use gajim still
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| 20:58 | nobody seems interested in programming a power users version
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| 20:58 | and writing python is faster
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| 20:59 | altho it seems to me
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| 20:59 | that cross platform apps are going to start disappearing from linux..
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| 20:59 | start disappearing from common usage that is.. by linux users
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| 20:59 | <warren> wait, why?
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| 20:59 | <johnny> because of the amazing amount of integration possible
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| 21:00 | with gnome-shell, dbus, hal, packagekit, etc
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| 21:00 | <warren> pidgin hasn't disappeared
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| 21:00 | <johnny> not yet
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| 21:00 | <warren> and it uses some of that
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| 21:00 | <Nubae-laptop> well actually telepathy is now integrated into gnome
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| 21:00 | <johnny> cuz empathy still sucks compared to it :)
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| 21:00 | <warren> does empathy use libpurple?
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| 21:00 | <Nubae-laptop> and empathy uses that, so its very integrated already
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| 21:00 | <johnny> for telepathy-haze
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| 21:00 | transport
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| 21:00 | <Nubae-laptop> no
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| 21:01 | it uses all of them
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| 21:01 | <johnny> telepathy-haze is what it is called
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| 21:01 | <warren> so pidgin isn't going away
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| 21:01 | <johnny> libpurple isn't going away
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| 21:01 | at least for now
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| 21:01 | give it a few years..
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| 21:02 | <Nubae-laptop> it uses most imporantly salut for avahi based coms
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| 21:02 | <johnny> link local messaging
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| 21:02 | <Nubae-laptop> and all the major coms protocols
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| 21:02 | yep
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| 21:02 | <johnny> it's really sad tho..
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| 21:02 | <Nubae-laptop> sends files through it too
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| 21:02 | sad why?
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| 21:02 | <johnny> because telepathy is too lcd
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| 21:02 | <Nubae-laptop> lcd?
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| 21:03 | <johnny> lowest common denominator
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| 21:03 | between the various protocols
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| 21:03 | <Nubae-laptop> well, its just very open and used a lot
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| 21:03 | is that a bad thing?
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| 21:03 | <johnny> well.. supporting more xmpp features would be nice :)
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| 21:03 | <Nubae-laptop> its the heart of collab software, the reason we can get abiword and inkscape and co sharing
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| 21:04 | they are seriously working on that... just takes time
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| 21:04 | <johnny> inkscape had support before telepathy
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| 21:04 | <Nubae-laptop> should replace pidgin in jaunty
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| 21:04 | <johnny> i think people will be upset over that
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| 21:04 | <Nubae-laptop> it uses telepathy for its support
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| 21:04 | <johnny> not enough plugins..
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| 21:04 | not before telepathy existed :)
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| 21:04 | or was really usable
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| 21:05 | <Nubae-laptop> well, then it used something non standard
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| 21:05 | <johnny> it was standard
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| 21:05 | <Nubae-laptop> dont u think its good telepathy is in gnome now?
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| 21:05 | <johnny> it was just an xmpp lib..
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| 21:05 | we'll see
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| 21:05 | when i can replace gajim :)
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| 21:05 | <Nubae-laptop> ok, so u want them to replicate the wheel every time
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| 21:05 | ;-)
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| 21:05 | <johnny> no i don't
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| 21:05 | gajim is great
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| 21:05 | i wish it was a telepathy client instead
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| 21:05 | and worked on fixing telepathy in process
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| 21:06 | <Nubae-laptop> well, it can still do that, no?
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| 21:06 | <johnny> but.. cross platform prevents such thing
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| 21:06 | thus why pidgin won't use telepathy.. but telepathy will use libpurple ..
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| 21:06 | <Nubae-laptop> loads of apps are working on using telepathy to share stuff and collaborate, I think its great
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| 21:07 | especially on the mobile side
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| 21:07 | <johnny> hmm.. i wonder if fedora's abiword
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| 21:07 | has the support built in
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| 21:07 | <Nubae-laptop> I think so yes
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| 21:08 | <warren> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Initrdrewrite
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| 21:08 | I added some of the debian/ubuntu requirements
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| 21:08 | <Nubae-laptop> in fact fedora is leading the way cause of olpc
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| 21:08 | the xos run on Fedora
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| 21:09 | <warren> why is this because of OLPC?
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| 21:09 | maybe we're leading because we suck?
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| 21:09 | Ubuntu can release it first and take the credit.
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| 21:09 | <johnny> nonsense warren
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| 21:09 | <warren> I'm just joking.
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| 21:10 | <Nubae-laptop> well its a nice marriage... though I still think Ubuntu is more straight forward in its ways :-p
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| 21:12 | sound and media apps are now doing collab stuff, so u can share media easily across networks and the net, I think thats pretty neat
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| 21:20 | <warren> Ryan52: I don't understand what those patches do
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| 21:20 | Ryan52: and it will likely make it difficult to redo the ldm layout patch?
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| 21:20 | <Ryan52> which patch? I made 2 separate commits in the last hour..
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| 21:23 | what do you mean the ldm layout patch? the k12linux one? it doesn't even touch any of that code..
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| 21:24 | <warren> Ryan52: oh
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| 21:24 | ok
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| 21:24 | Ryan52: the penultimate patch
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| 21:25 | <Ryan52> that's on ldm-dialog
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| 21:25 | add's the same functionality of "zenity --progress"
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| 21:28 | <warren> oooh
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| 22:28 | <Ryan52> does anybody know if launchpad is case sensitive with the email address?
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| 22:29 | I've been using my email with caps for a while, but then when I learned that email addresses (technically) are case sensitive I switched to all lowercase to be less confusing, but I'm scared to change my launchpad/bzr..
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| 22:29 | <johnny> i've used lowercase the entire time.. so no idea..
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| 23:05 | <wiscados> is a thin-client like a virtual machine running on the server?
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| 23:05 | <johnny> no
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| 23:06 | <wiscados> does the OS run on the local machine?
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| 23:06 | <johnny> no
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| 23:06 | well .. AN os runs on the local machine
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| 23:06 | to get it to the point where it can log into the server
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| 23:06 | the the users on the server.. are the same as any other users
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| 23:06 | just as if they were to be logged in directly to the machine
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| 23:07 | <wiscados> oh, I see
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| 23:07 | like a mainfram
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| 23:07 | like a mainframe
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| 23:07 | <johnny> uhmm.. sorta i guess
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| 23:07 | standard unix stuff here..
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| 23:07 | multi user system
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| 23:07 | i don't consider my laptop a main frame :)
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| 23:07 | <wiscados> hehe, no. I guess not
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| 23:08 | <johnny> my laptop could be a thin client server
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| 23:08 | it'd be slow..
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| 23:08 | but it would work
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| 23:09 | <wiscados> is it possible to log in on one thin-client, and then login with a different computer and see the same desktop?
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| 23:09 | <johnny> no.. gnome nor firefox likes that..
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| 23:09 | well.. i guess you could SEE the same desktop
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| 23:09 | with something like vnc
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| 23:09 | you wouldn't be logging in as that user per se..
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| 23:10 | <wiscados> ok
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| 23:10 | <johnny> but a similiar technology is at work with italc
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| 23:10 | used in conjunction with ltsp usually
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| 23:10 | if you had a class full of students.. you could remote control their mouse and stuff
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| 23:11 | and see what they see
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| 23:11 | <wiscados> could you login as the same user twice, but with different x-sesions?
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| 23:11 | <johnny> why are you asking?
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| 23:11 | <wiscados> yeah, I recently saw iTALC, it's pretty cool
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| 23:11 | just curious
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| 23:11 | <johnny> focus on the goal you're trying to achieve instead of how to get there
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| 23:11 | firefox would not like it at all..
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| 23:11 | as one example of a program
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| 23:12 | but if you were using vnc/italc and the like..
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| 23:12 | you could certainly start a firefox for them
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| 23:12 | or something like that
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| 23:12 | i've never personally used it
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| 23:12 | i use ltsp in an internet cafe environment
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| 23:12 | not in an educational one
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| 23:12 | <wiscados> I'm just trying to see what the possibilities are with a thin-client are. I have so many ideas
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| 23:13 | <johnny> most things that people do on their computers.. can be done with a thin client
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| 23:13 | except sadly.. cd burning (atm at least)
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| 23:13 | <wiscados> I'm think about things you can't do on a normal computer
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| 23:13 | <johnny> like what?
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| 23:14 | btw.. ltsp uses standard unix stuff everywhere..
| |
| 23:14 | ltsp is just glue
| |
| 23:14 | to make it all work in conjunction
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| 23:14 | <wiscados> Like, for example if one computer was hooked up to a projector, and than students could display someting on the projector from their thin.clients
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| 23:14 | <johnny> sure.. but you wouldn't even need thin clients for that
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| 23:15 | <wiscados> yeah, you probably could just use vnc
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| 23:15 | now that I think about it
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| 23:15 | <johnny> lots of options really
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| 23:15 | like shared whiteboarding ..
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| 23:15 | <wiscados> What about colaborating on a document, is that possible
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| 23:15 | <johnny> sure.. gobby can do it
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| 23:16 | or inkscape..
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| 23:16 | or abiword
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| 23:16 | inkscape for pictures that is..
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| 23:16 | <wiscados> opensource is so great...
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| 23:16 | everything is already done
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| 23:16 | <johnny> there is very little specific about ltsp in ltsp :)
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| 23:17 | most of the work was done for us
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| 23:17 | with standard tools
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| 23:17 | the things that are ltsp specific
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| 23:17 | <wiscados> hehe, thanks to unix heritage, I guess
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| 23:17 | <johnny> is a generated client image so they can boot
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| 23:17 | which uses apt,kickstart, or whatever for that distro
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| 23:17 | that includes ltspfs.. which is a fuse system that allows local devices to work
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| 23:18 | jetpipe to connect to local printers
| |
| 23:18 | and ldm, which is a display manager that is basically a thin front end to X ssh forwarding or xdmcp
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| 23:19 | <wiscados> ok, so there is somethin in the ltsp package...
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| 23:19 | <johnny> sure..
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| 23:19 | as i said.. glue :)
| |
| 23:19 | ties all the tools together
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| 23:19 | <wiscados> so, ltsp is made from horses then
| |
| 23:19 | <johnny> yuck
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| 23:19 | not that kind of glue i ihope
| |
| 23:19 | the nice ethical glue :)
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| 23:20 | <wiscados> code-glue
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| 23:20 | <johnny> and yeah.. it's all cuz of unix
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| 23:20 | <wiscados> god bless those hairy hackers..
| |
| 23:20 | <johnny> truly
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| 23:36 | <Ryan52> warren, what are you talking about? My gdm asks me if I want to change my default..
| |
| 23:36 | <warren> Ryan52: what version of gdm?
| |
| 23:37 | Ryan52: you probably have an old version
| |
| 23:37 | <Ryan52> 2.20.7
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| 23:37 | <warren> gdm-2.24.0-12.fc10.x86_64 here
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| 23:37 | <Ryan52> ah.
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| 23:37 | <johnny> warren, .. isn't fedora the only distro shipping 2.24 ???
| |
| 23:37 | * Ryan52 growls at Debian for being behind | |
| 23:37 | <johnny> Ryan52, don't growl too hard. you should be at 2.22.. but not 2.24
| |
| 23:38 | <Ryan52> oh :)
| |
| 23:38 | <johnny> ubuntu still ships 2.22
| |
| 23:40 | gentoo as well
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| 23:40 | not sure about suse
| |
| 23:41 | Ryan52, big story behind it..
| |
| 23:41 | <dberkholz> depends on what you mean by shipping, i guess
| |
| 23:41 | <johnny> lol
| |
| 23:41 | <dberkholz> 2.24 has been in testing for a while
| |
| 23:41 | <johnny> really?
| |
| 23:41 | must have missed that
| |
| 23:41 | <dberkholz> gnome-2.24.0: Thu Oct 23 08:45:28 2008
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| 23:41 | <johnny> aha.. really recent!
| |
| 23:41 | like.. waay after.. i wonder how many patches they had to apply
| |
| 23:42 | oh.. wait.. i'mc razyin
| |
| 23:42 | i'm thinking about april
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| 23:42 | dberkholz, .. gdm?
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| 23:42 | i was talking about gdm.. not gnome
| |
| 23:42 | dberkholz, .. so i went ahead and started using funtoo stage 3s
| |
| 23:42 | unlike gentoo releng..
| |
| 23:42 | <dberkholz> oh, that's been chillin' in the gnome overlay
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| 23:43 | <johnny> daniel will actually create the symlinks i askedo
| |
| 23:43 | asked for*
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| 23:43 | or gentoo infra.. whatever
| |
| 23:43 | <dberkholz> johnny: fyi, i have a releng announcement waiting to get posted on the homepage.
| |
| 23:43 | <johnny> what's that?
| |
| 23:43 | see.. daniel will do this for me
| |
| 23:43 | <dberkholz> something about the automated builds starting
| |
| 23:43 | stuff is on the mirrors already
| |
| 23:44 | <johnny> http://www.funtoo.org/linux/x86/stage3-x86-current.tar.bz2
| |
| 23:44 | which is really useful for ltsp
| |
| 23:45 | he makes stages for all many gentoo targets..
| |
| 23:45 | <dberkholz> i know
| |
| 23:48 | <johnny> dberkholz, can you get some symlinks like that?
| |
| 23:49 | <dberkholz> is it a good idea to be pointing to files we haven't tested?
| |
| 23:49 | <johnny> for now yes
| |
| 23:49 | until there are tarballs
| |
| 23:49 | i think it is fine to use while still using bzr
| |
| 23:50 | how about you persuade the genkernel guys to include a patch so i can provide an external modules_load .. so we can actually release something :)
| |
| 23:50 | i seem to be unsucessful
| |
| 23:50 | all i get is.. robbat did a patch.. but we want to do it another way
| |
| 23:52 | if stuff is marked stable tho.. shouldn't it be stable?
| |
| 23:53 | if gentoo can provide stage3 that are more up to date, and also include portage 2.2 and openrc.. then we might actually be able to pin a stage
| |
| 23:53 | otherwise i have to hardcode in manual blocker resolutions
| |
| 23:54 | <dberkholz> johnny: 2.1.6 has pretty much everything from 2.2 but sets
| |
| 23:54 | it's set to go stable soon
| |
| 23:54 | <johnny> really? didn't know that
| |
| 23:54 | neat
| |
| 23:54 | <dberkholz> i pinged agaffney about your genkernel thing
| |
| 23:54 | <johnny> ok.. well lemme know when that tarball goes stable
| |
| 23:54 | <dberkholz> if he will give details somewhere about the way they want it, we can get a patch together
| |
| 23:54 | <johnny> err a tarball with that.. goes stable
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| 23:54 | but we still need openrc
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| 23:55 | and that will complete everything
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| 23:55 | <dberkholz> stages are gonna be ~weekly so it'll be around a week after
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| 23:55 | who knows irt openrc. weird crap going on there.
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| 23:55 | <johnny> really?
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| 23:55 | for example?
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| 23:55 | maybe gentoo should switch to upstart :)
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| 23:55 | hehe
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| 23:56 | <dberkholz> upstream no longer uses gentoo, for the most part
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| 23:56 | <johnny> hasn't it been that way since the beginning?
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| 23:56 | well.. not THE beginning
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| 23:56 | for for the past year
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| 23:56 | <dberkholz> it's getting worse
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| 23:56 | <johnny> oh.. well isn't that super..
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| 23:56 | :(
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| 23:56 | any chance on upstart then?
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| 23:57 | <dberkholz> it's a combination of him being a little weird and the gentoo maintainer having some issues dealing with people in a polite way
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| 23:57 | <johnny> lol.. cardoe..
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| 23:57 | <dberkholz> weird irt just not understanding the needs of distros despite working in gentoo for years
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| 23:58 | <johnny> it seems smart for gentoo to start using thinigs that seem to be heading towards standardization
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| 23:58 | instead of inventing everything
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| 23:58 | <dberkholz> gentoo wants to use the best solution
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| 23:58 | being a standard doesn't make it good
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| 23:59 | <johnny> except when being the best gets in the way..
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| 23:59 | the perfect being the enemy of the good and all
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| 23:59 | <dberkholz> i didn't say anything about an exception. =P
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| 23:59 | <johnny> lol
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