IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 24 November 2008 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:10 | <Xperiment62> can LTSP boot original powerpc iMacs?
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| 00:18 | <sbalneav> You'd have to build the chroot on one, but yes, it can
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| 00:19 | <johnny> sbalneav, i know i can cross compile powerpc chroots in a build from src distro
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| 00:20 | <johnny> but since ubuntu/deb is all binary, it seems like you should be able to fake it
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| 00:25 | <sbalneav> You could use qemu
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| 00:27 | No, you wouldn't be able to do it on gentoo either
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| 00:27 | you'd have to use qemu as well
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| 00:30 | heading to bed
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| 00:39 | <johnny> cross compile, yes, run no
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| 05:41 | <cdshan> Hello ! I am currently using CentOS 5.2 and would like to install ltsp5 on it. Could someone point me to the suitable page to do the same.
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| 05:50 | <stgraber> ogra: ping
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| 06:00 | <cdshan> Could someone help me with installing ltsp5 on centos 5.2
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| 06:00 | I would like to know where I could get the ltsp rpm's for centos 5.2
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| 06:12 | <jammcq> there aren't any RPMS for ltsp for centos
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| 06:12 | the closest we have is LTSP-5 for Fedora 9
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| 06:13 | <jammcq> but there's some instructions for how to install a F9 LTSP environment on a RHEL5 system
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| 06:13 | take a look at k12linux.org
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| 06:15 | hmm, I thought there was notes about RHEL5. I don't see them now
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| 06:28 | <ogra> stgraber, you are missing my last changelog entry
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| 06:29 | (in ltsp)
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| 06:53 | <cdshan> Jammcq! Sorry I couldn't catch you when you were online. But as you said there are no documentation of installing ltsp5 on CentOs 5.2
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| 06:53 | Is there some other site which I could refer to?
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| 07:17 | <stgraber> ogra: oh ? Weird, I apt-get sourced it
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| 07:18 | <ogra> from jaunty ?
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| 07:18 | <stgraber> ogra: nope, on Intrepid. Did you upload something to Jaunty ?
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| 07:18 | <ogra> yes
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| 07:19 | the acpid fix
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| 07:19 | to make it installable on armel
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| 07:19 | <stgraber> oh, ok. I'll do a new package then :)
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| 07:19 | <ogra> thanks, apart from that it looks great
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| 07:21 | <Q-FUNK> armel. sounds like caramel.
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| 07:23 | <Blinny> apt-get caramel
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| 07:24 | <stgraber> ogra: updated
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| 08:26 | <dmaran> Morning all- I am trying to install x11vnc on some clients using LTSP5 Ubuntu 8.04 I have followed the instructions here: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients to a "t" and still get no love. The response I get is "xvncviewer: ConnectToTcpAddr: connect: Connection refused
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| 08:26 | Unable to connect to VNC server " Any ideas? I have triple checked the files and permissions and rebuilt the client image a few times. Has something changed since this article was last updated?
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| 08:30 | <Eghie> you could check the log files, maybe a firewall or check if the x11vnc is even running or not
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| 08:34 | <dmaran> That is the issue I don't think it is running at client boot
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| 08:46 | <Gadi> dmaran: log into the client console on ctrl-alt-f1 and try running by hand
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| 08:46 | better yet add: -o /tmp/x11vnc.log to the arguments
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| 08:47 | and cat /tmp/x11vnc.log after it fails
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| 08:47 | personally, I would run it out of inetd
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| 08:47 | but, that's personal preference
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| 08:47 | * ogra would simply use italc instead | |
| 08:47 | <Gadi> or that
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| 08:48 | but, dont some prefer to use italc+local vnc?
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| 08:48 | to cut down on bandwidth?
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| 08:48 | <ogra> well ,there are two ways to use italc
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| 08:48 | either on the servers session or directly installed on the client
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| 08:49 | both should work, the session variant has some feature limitation
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| 08:49 | (no shutdown/reboot)
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| 08:49 | <dmaran> We are using iTalc now, BUT with the Geographic separation it is unusable
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| 08:50 | outside the local site
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| 08:50 | the latency is too much to handle we have about a 45 second delay
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> dmaran: do you instal italc on the client?
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| 08:50 | <dmaran> Yes
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| 08:50 | <Gadi> or in the session?
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| 08:51 | ah - i thought it used x11vnc itself
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| 08:51 | <ogra> no, it has ts own vnc implementation
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| 08:51 | iirc it only uses th libs
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| 08:51 | <Gadi> ah - but still vnc
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| 08:51 | right?
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| 08:52 | * Gadi wonders why x11vnc would work any better | |
| 08:54 | <cliebow> !g
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| 08:54 | <ltspbot> cliebow: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:54 | <rjune> !g
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| 08:54 | <ltspbot> rjune: "g" is Gadi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 08:54 | <dmaran> We don't know if it will, but we need to try it out. As the 45 second delay makes remote admin impossible
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| 08:55 | <ogra> Gadi, different ports, italc uses ssh eys to authenticate etc
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| 08:55 | *keys
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| 08:55 | <rjune> ogra: filled out the form, here's hoping
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| 08:55 | <ogra> great, lets see what comes out
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| 08:55 | <Gadi> ah
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| 08:56 | the "directx" of the desktop shadowing world ;)
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| 08:56 | morning, cliebow, rjune
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| 09:00 | <cliebow> top o the mornng oh sage
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| 09:01 | <rjune> howdy gadi.
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| 09:12 | <stgraber> ogra: when do you plan to upload ldm and ltsp (both should be uploaded at the same time as I don't think one would work without the other) ?
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| 09:43 | <Blinny> We installed iTalc on the server, not in the client chroot
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| 09:46 | <Gadi> can anyone help me test a new xrandr script: lp:~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-xrandr ?
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| 09:47 | I am hopeful it will provide backwards compat with current X_MODE_0, while providing automatic multihead and some other xrandr goodies
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| 09:47 | oh, and obviate the need for CONFIGURE_X
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| 09:48 | but, I need some help testing
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> Gadi, what do you need from the tester hw?
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| 09:53 | E.g. right now I got a TC with an embedded SiS graphics card and 1 screen, will this do?
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> alkisg: sure thing
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| 09:53 | <Blinny> Sorry Gadi slamming with programming now :(
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> I first need to make sure that if you do:
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| 09:53 | CONFIGURE_X=False
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| 09:53 | X_MODE_0=<some mode or modeline>
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| 09:54 | that it sets the mode for you
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> Gadi, OK, first things first: what do I need to install? :)
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> well, here - I'll make it easier on u since, it is only one script
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| 09:54 | let me pastebot it
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| 09:56 | <ltsppbot> "Gadi" pasted "This goes in: /opt/ltspi386/usr/share/ltsp/xinitrc.d/I10-xrandr" (73 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/111
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| 09:57 | <Gadi> of course, you need to be running the latest ltsp from -trunk
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| 09:57 | with the xinitrc stuff in it
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| 09:57 | this is newer stuff than what is in intrepid
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| 09:58 | ah, damn - mtg
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| 09:58 | bbiab
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> Gadi, so... put the trunk in the chroot sources.list, update, put the script, ltsp-update-client, right?
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| 10:00 | Trunk link? :)
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| 10:12 | <Devilmaster> hi
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| 10:13 | has anyone some ideas, why ltspfsmounter does not create /tmp/.$user-ltpfs ?
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| 10:23 | <bstorp> hello?
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| 10:26 | hm okay. maybe someone is alive a little bit later
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| 10:39 | <jammcq> Good morning #ltsp
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| 11:00 | <Q-FUNK> !j
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| 11:00 | <ltspbot> Q-FUNK: Error: "j" is not a valid command.
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| 11:00 | <Q-FUNK> bad robot!
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| 11:00 | hiya jammcq!
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| 11:06 | <jammcq> hey Q-FUNK
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| 11:09 | <prpplague> jammcq: ping
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| 11:10 | <jammcq> hey prpplague
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| 11:10 | how you doing?
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| 11:10 | <prpplague> jammcq: not too bad, always could be better
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| 11:10 | <jammcq> cool
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| 11:11 | <prpplague> jammcq: quick question for ya, iirc you guys have done some ltsp kiosks before, ever do anything for a pricechecker style kiosk?
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| 11:11 | <jammcq> nope
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| 11:11 | we did some point-of-sale stuff, and there's a way to put Firefox into a kiosk mode
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| 11:11 | but I've not taken it any further than that
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| 11:12 | <prpplague> hmm, just curious, we have new kiosk design and got a request for it work with ltsp
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| 11:12 | <jammcq> wow, cool
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| 11:12 | you still playing with ARM chips ?
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| 11:13 | <prpplague> yea, exclusively, not much $$ is the x86 dev world
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| 11:13 | <jammcq> you should talk to Ogra. he's getting into ARM stuff too. ubuntu has a port to arm
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| 11:14 | <prpplague> jammcq: yea, i sent the ubuntu guys a bunch of our arm boards, david mandala
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| 11:14 | jammcq: unfortuantely, i'll also do some wince dev arm as well
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| 11:20 | <prpplague> jammcq: http://imagebin.ca/view/WsElZHD.html
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| 11:20 | <jammcq> hmm, very cool
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| 11:21 | <prpplague> guess i'll have to get the latest ltsp and give it a try
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| 11:22 | <ogra> prpplague, hey, my EVM board came from you ?
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| 11:22 | <prpplague> jammcq: ever go to wal-mart or somewhere else for the auto section and try to find a battery or windshield wiper blades? they usually have a small kiosk to help you make the selection
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| 11:22 | ogra: it is possible, i don't know which evm you have
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| 11:22 | <jammcq> yeah
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| 11:23 | <ogra> i havent ad time to even remotely care for ltsp on arm yet ... we are still shuffling the archive aroud to make everything build first
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| 11:23 | <prpplague> jammcq: this is targeted at that and price checker
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| 11:23 | <jammcq> I always prefer the kiosk, cuz the employees are mostly worthless
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| 11:23 | <prpplague> indeed
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| 11:23 | <ogra> prpplague, TI OMAP35x EVM ... the mistral board
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| 11:23 | <prpplague> ogra: ahh, nope not mine
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| 11:24 | <ogra> oh, what did you send then ? i know there is nore to come
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| 11:24 | *more
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| 11:24 | <prpplague> we sent a couple hammer kits and nail boards
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| 11:24 | http://www.tincantools.com
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| 11:24 | <ogra> i'm mainly waiting for a beagleboard and some other onknown thing
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| 11:24 | <prpplague> ogra: yea we sell adapters and such for the beagle as well
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| 11:24 | <ogra> ah, sweet !
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| 11:25 | <prpplague> ogra: we have a couple expansion boards that will be available soon
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| 11:25 | <ogra> the hammer is arm9 though
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| 11:25 | <prpplague> yea
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| 11:25 | <ogra> wont work with ubuntu
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| 11:25 | we're focusing on arm7
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| 11:25 | <prpplague> ogra: armV7
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| 11:26 | <ogra> right
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| 11:26 | <prpplague> ogra: hehe, big difference between arm7 and armv7
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| 11:26 | <ogra> i hate how confusing this arm naming is
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| 11:26 | <prpplague> ogra: yea, tincantools was just giving aways some stuff to developers
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| 11:26 | i didn't expect much to come of it
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| 13:06 | <Gadi> vagrantc: ping
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| 13:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: heya
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| 13:07 | <Gadi> hi
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| 13:07 | can you help me test something?
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| 13:07 | or can I add it to a queue you may have?
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| 13:07 | :)
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| 13:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: there's an alternative to cdfs called... cddfs...
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| 13:08 | <Gadi> lp:~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-xrandr
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| 13:08 | <vagrantc> Gadi: currently trying to get new ltsp/ldm packages uploaded within the next half hour
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| 13:08 | <Gadi> ah, ok
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| 13:08 | after that?
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| 13:08 | <puppy dog eyes>
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| 13:08 | <vagrantc> i like the sounds of that, though :)
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| 13:08 | <johnny> hmm.. maybe ltspbot should have a message thing..
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| 13:08 | i found a neat feature of a bot
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| 13:08 | to do that
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| 13:08 | <Gadi> vagrantc: its a single scriptie
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| 13:09 | johnny: you mean like a punce?
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| 13:09 | *pounce
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| 13:09 | * ogra tries to imagine the sound of puppy dog eyes | |
| 13:09 | <Gadi> its like the sound of one dog clapping
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| 13:09 | <johnny> yeah
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| 13:09 | <Gadi> :)
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| 13:09 | <ogra> heh
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| 13:29 | <Blinny> How do you turn off vino? Seems like all my users have it enabled and so port 5900 on the server is open, and when I vnc to it I get one of my user's sessions.
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| 13:30 | <johnny> maybe it starts in /etc/xdg/autostart ?
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| 13:33 | <Blinny> Not that I can see
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| 13:34 | <johnny> it isn't starting by default for me..
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| 13:34 | <Blinny> Could it be connected to iTalc at all?
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| 13:35 | <johnny> not sure
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| 13:35 | i don't use anything like that
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| 13:35 | <Gadi> sounds like italc would be the one opening the port
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| 13:35 | vino may run even if no one enables its use
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| 13:35 | i believe
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| 13:36 | <Blinny> Strange that it arbitrarily picked one of my users' sessions to display
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| 13:37 | <Blinny> connected to host localhost port 5900
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> Blinny, iTalc uses 5900... so even if someones wants to run Vino, he can't, he has to use another port for either of these two...
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| 13:40 | <Blinny> iTalc uses 5900 on the server or when installed in the chroot ?
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> Ehm... both? :)
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| 13:41 | <Blinny> Hmm.
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Blinny, I think that if it is installed in the chroot, it'll use 5900 on the clients as well as on the server
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| 13:42 | <Blinny> So what about all these enabled=true in $/.gconf/desktop/gnome/remote_access ?
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> If it's not on the chroot, only on the server
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| 13:42 | <Blinny> er, ~/.gconf ...
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| 13:42 | <alkisg> Well, when I tried to enable remote access, I couldn't, I had to change the vino port to something <> 5900...
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| 13:43 | <Blinny> Where did you do that?
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| 13:43 | vino-preferences ?
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| 13:44 | <alkisg> Yeap
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| 13:44 | <ogra> vino isnt enabled by default on any ubuntu system
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| 13:45 | can only be italc you are seeing there unless you fiddled with the gconf keys of vino yourself
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| 13:46 | <Blinny> Thanks guys.
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| 13:50 | <ogra> stgraber, both uploaded, do you ping ubuntu-archive about binary new for ldminfod ?
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| 13:50 | (and we'll probably need a MIR)
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| 13:50 | <stgraber> ogra: do we really need a MIR for something that was already in Main ?
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| 13:51 | <ogra> not sure, last i looked we didnt, but policies change :)
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| 13:51 | <stgraber> ok, I'll ping steve once the package appears in the binary new queue
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| 13:51 | <ogra> in any case it will lock up in the queue until someone manually unqeuese it
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| 13:52 | un-queues
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| 13:52 | <vagrantc> hah! debian beats ubuntu again!
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| 13:53 | <ogra> ltsp_5.1.35 and ldm_2.0.19 here
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> we'll have the same upstream again
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| 13:54 | <ogra> oh
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| 13:54 | yeah, and i see ou beat me by 30 min :)
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> exactly
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| 13:54 | <ogra> or 20
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| 13:54 | <vagrantc> thereabouts
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| 13:54 | we'll see how long it actually takes to hit the mirrors, though.
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| 13:54 | <ogra> well, thats because stgraber has no upload rights yet
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| 13:55 | he always has to wait on his slacking upload bitch
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| 13:55 | ;)
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| 13:55 | ubuntu will take about 3h
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| 13:55 | <ogra> netx build queue run is at :03
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| 13:55 | <stgraber> a bit longer as we may need some paperwork to get ltsp in (ldminfod)
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| 13:55 | <vagrantc> of course, i cheated. i'm still shipping ldminfod in ltsp-server
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| 13:56 | <ogra> ah
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| 13:56 | so we're more *modern* :)
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| 13:56 | <vagrantc> in some regards.
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| 13:58 | <Gadi> hmm...
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| 13:58 | ldminfod is now where? ldm-trunk?
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| 13:58 | <ogra> yes
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| 13:59 | * Gadi wonders if there is an ldm server package? | |
| 13:59 | <vagrantc> there will be
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| 13:59 | <Gadi> ah
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| 13:59 | ok
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| 13:59 | stgraber: do you already make an ldm-server pkg?
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| 13:59 | <ogra> stgraber, btw, we should drop the xinetd configs from warren somewhere into the docs/examples section
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| 13:59 | <vagrantc> the ironic thing is, even though i had gently pushed for it for years, i'll probably be the last to upload it :)
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| 14:00 | <ogra> Gadi, its called ldminfod
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| 14:00 | <Gadi> ah
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| 14:00 | <ogra> not ldm-server
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| 14:00 | <Gadi> so, if I want an ldm-ready app server, I should install ldminfod and ltspfs
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| 14:00 | atm
| |
| 14:00 | :)
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| 14:00 | <stgraber> Gadi: yes
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| 14:00 | <vagrantc> i would think ldm-server would be better, just in case there's anything else we might want to add to it
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| 14:00 | <stgraber> Gadi: that's what I do here, no need of ltsp-server anymore
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| 14:00 | <Gadi> excellent
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> of course, keeping it optional things, not mandatory things
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| 14:01 | <Gadi> vagrantc: I would suggest a meta-pks
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| 14:01 | *meta-pkg
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| 14:01 | <ogra> Gadi, well, ltsp-server recommends it
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> Gadi: why?
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| 14:01 | <ogra> so it gets installed automatically
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| 14:01 | <Gadi> that way, you can have ldm-server depend on ldminfod, ltspfs, etc
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| 14:01 | gbolte has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:01 | <ogra> no need for any meta stuff
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| 14:01 | <vagrantc> Gadi: why not have ldm-server include ldminfod and all that other stuff?
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| 14:01 | <ogra> why should ldm depends on ltspfs
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| 14:01 | <gbolte> hi
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| 14:02 | <ogra> its a dep of ltsp-server anyway
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> hmm
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| 14:02 | <vagrantc> recommends would be appropriate
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| 14:02 | <ogra> no need for extra dupication
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| 14:02 | right
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| 14:02 | <vagrantc> or suggests
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> ogra: suppose you want just the app server
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| 14:02 | <ogra> Gadi, so ?
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> not the ltsp booting part
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| 14:02 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i don't see why we need ldminfod separate from an ldm-server package...
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| 14:02 | <Gadi> so, I dont want to install ltsp-server
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| 14:02 | <ogra> right
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| 14:03 | <Gadi> just ldminfod and ltspfs
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| 14:03 | <ogra> you install openssh-server, ldminfod and ltspfs
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| 14:03 | not the common case
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| 14:03 | <Gadi> but, as more things come out, it would be nice to have an app server pkg that pulls in all
| |
| 14:03 | <vagrantc> ogra: but not uncommon either
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| 14:03 | <Gadi> not common for you :)
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| 14:03 | quite common for me, and most likely stgraber
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| 14:04 | <vagrantc> it's how we configured stuff at freegeek before ltsp5 was a gleam in the milkman's eye
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| 14:04 | <ogra> pfft
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| 14:04 | do what you want
| |
| 14:04 | * vagrantc will | |
| 14:04 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 14:04 | <ogra> i dont have to maintin it anymore (soon) :P
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| 14:04 | <Gadi> just asking
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| 14:04 | :)
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| 14:04 | <ogra> if stgraber wants to add overhead, he is free to do so
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| 14:04 | <vagrantc> Gadi: so i still don't see why ldminfod should be separated out from an ldm-server package...
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| 14:05 | <ogra> there is no ldm-server package
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| 14:05 | <Gadi> vagrantc: agreed
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| 14:05 | I was confused
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| 14:05 | mea culpa
| |
| 14:05 | * vagrantc intends to make an ldm-server package, rather than ldminfod | |
| 14:05 | <ogra> why should a package that only contains ldminfod be called different than the only binary stuff it sips ?
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| 14:05 | *ships
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| 14:05 | <vagrantc> if there's every anything else it would contain, or if ldminfod is renamed
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| 14:05 | <Gadi> vagrantc: would your ldm-server depend on ltspfs and openssh-server?
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| 14:06 | <ogra> surely only recommend
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| 14:06 | if even that
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| 14:06 | <vagrantc> Gadi: definitely openssh-server, might recommend or suggest ltspfs...
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| 14:06 | randra`offz has quit IRC | |
| 14:06 | * Gadi nods - ok | |
| 14:07 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i'd also put some sort of dependency on: gnome | x-desktop-environment | x-window-manager or some such
| |
| 14:07 | * ogra suggests x-session-manager | |
| 14:07 | <Gadi> it will still be nice in my docs to be able to tell an admin: when using the ldm session, make sure your Linux appliaction server has the "ldm-server" package installed ...
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| 14:07 | and know that that would make everything work
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| 14:07 | <vagrantc> ogra: sure... the exact details i'll work out later...
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| 14:08 | Gadi: recommends will typically be pulled in by default
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| 14:08 | <ogra> x-session-manager | x-window-manager | xterm :)
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| 14:08 | <Gadi> oh really?
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| 14:08 | cool
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| 14:08 | <vagrantc> ogra: yeah... getting barebones.
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| 14:08 | <ogra> heh
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| 14:08 | <Gadi> I always thought recommends are not installed
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| 14:08 | <vagrantc> Gadi: they weren't.
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| 14:08 | <ogra> they sadly are now
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| 14:08 | <Gadi> oh, ok
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| 14:08 | <ogra> stgraber, btw we should work that out in jaunty
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| 14:08 | <Gadi> then carry on
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| 14:09 | :)
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| 14:09 | <ogra> in intrepid i disabled it in ltsp-build-client since it made the chroots explode
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| 14:09 | <vagrantc> recommends as "install-by-default but don't fail to install if they're missing" is great.
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| 14:09 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:13 | <vagrantc> i wonder if virtualbox thin clients support xrandr...
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| 14:17 | <ogra> sure
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| 14:17 | just not many settings :P
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| 14:19 | <vagrantc> stgraber: why do you tweak /root/.ssh/known_hosts rather than /etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts in the ltsp-cluster stuff?
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| 14:23 | * alkisg wonders why stricthostchecking isn't completely disabled, to save us all the ssh_known_hosts trouble... | |
| 14:23 | <vagrantc> because that's evil.
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| 14:23 | <ogra> because its a security flaw
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| 14:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I can't think of any possible security flaws
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| 14:24 | I'm sure there are, but I can't think of any :)
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| 14:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: someone plugs their laptop into your network, pretends to be your server, and logs all your keystrokes?
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| 14:24 | <alkisg> vagrantc, nope, afaik the passwords are not send
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| 14:25 | <ogra> but the whole connection is sniffable
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| 14:25 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the ssh connection does pass passwords around
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| 14:25 | alkisg: and if someone logs into a website that uses a password ...
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| 14:25 | <ogra> so indeed also the passwords are
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| 14:25 | <alkisg> ogra, but not reproducable (if I get this straight)
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| 14:26 | <jammcq> someone could pretend to be the server and accept connections from thin clients
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| 14:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: if you disable stricthostkeychecking, then you can spoof *anything*
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| 14:26 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:26 | and do a pretty MIM :)
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| 14:26 | <jammcq> if the thin client isn't checking host keys, nothing would stop the client from logging into the rogue server
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| 14:26 | <alkisg> vagrantc, but you'll have to emulate everything, up to the user profile and data to succeed with this
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| 14:26 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you just pass the whole session off the real server, logging the whole session
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> I don't think that would be really feasible...
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| 14:27 | <vagrantc> alkisg: trivial.
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| 14:27 | <ogra> you dont need to do anything but route through
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> vagrantc, no, I don't think this can be done (passthrough)
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| 14:27 | <ogra> it can
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| 14:27 | be sure
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> Because you can't authenticate to the real server
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| 14:27 | (the man in the middle)
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| 14:27 | <ogra> you dont need to ... you just froward keys
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| 14:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you can pass through by starting another ssh connection to the real server, and pass the whole session through.
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| 14:28 | <ogra> right
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| 14:28 | <vagrantc> there's a reason openssh has stricthostkeychecking enabled by default, and i won't override that.
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> But the real server will ask different "questions", ones who you won't know the answer for
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| 14:28 | <ogra> but the client does
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| 14:28 | you just pass them on
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| 14:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you pass all those questions on to the client...
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| 14:28 | <alkisg> Anyway, I'll have to take your word for that!!! :)
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| 14:29 | <ogra> all the server and client see here is a slight delay
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| 14:29 | * vagrantc doesn't want to see another "-ac" bug in LTSP | |
| 14:29 | <ogra> heh
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| 14:29 | yeah
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> heh
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| 14:29 | <ogra> even though that was added by a security guy :P
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| 14:30 | <vagrantc> i sent some email saying: hey, isn't this a security risk: "-ac disable access control restrictions"... the response was something to the effect of "no, no, everything's fine"
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| 14:31 | <Gadi> hehe - that must have been someone who didnt have a firend enable a screen-melting screensaver on him
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| 14:31 | *friend
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| 14:31 | <vagrantc> heh
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| 14:32 | warren has joined #ltsp | |
| 14:32 | <vagrantc> that's gotta be one cruel trick.
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| 14:32 | <stgraber> vagrantc: we used to have /etc/ssh/ on a read-only fs, it's not that long ago we moved to aufs
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| 14:32 | <vagrantc> stgraber: ah, got it.
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| 14:33 | <ogra> well, and we only did for ubuntu
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| 14:33 | or did debian find a way to use aufs with nfs ro-root
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> haven't tried yet.
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| 14:34 | my last go with nbd+squashfs+aufs went fine
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| 14:34 | haven't tried nbd+ext2+aufs ...
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| 14:34 | but nbd+ext2+bindmounts worked fine
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| 14:34 | * ogra is talking nfs+tmfs and aufs on top | |
| 14:35 | <ogra> *tmpfs
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> yeah, haven't tried that
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| 14:35 | <ogra> it never worked
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> the debian-live folks were using it, i thought
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| 14:36 | <ogra> if it works now it wuld be a cool option
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| 14:36 | i didnt bother to try nfs since we switched to nbd
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> not to belabor security, but how does fetching the known_hosts key from the server you are trying to verify help security?
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| 14:38 | <vagrantc> i actually had an idea to try nbd+squashfs+aufs with an nfs mount bind-mount of volatile files like lts.conf and known_hosts and such
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| 14:38 | Gadi: not so great, really.
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| 14:38 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 14:38 | not so "Strict" host key checking
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| 14:39 | :)
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> well, yeah.
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| 14:39 | <ogra> the only fact that helps a bit is that known_hosts is on a ro fs
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> that should be a flag
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> but it raises the bar
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> NotSoStrictHostKeyCheecking
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| 14:39 | <ogra> NearlyStrictHostKeyCheecking
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| 14:39 | <vagrantc> PonderingWhatItMightBeLikeToHaveStrictHostKeyChecking
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| 14:39 | <ogra> heh
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| 14:39 | <Gadi> ogra, Im talking about the cluster stuff: (echo -n "$LDM_SERVER " ; echo "getkey" | nc $LDM_SERVER 8001) > /root/.ssh/
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| 14:39 | known_hosts
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| 14:40 | <vagrantc> that seems pretty ugly
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| 14:40 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 14:40 | <ogra> yeah
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| 14:40 | that highly insecure
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| 14:40 | *thats
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| 14:40 | <stgraber> ogra: do you happen to know whose archive day it's today ?
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| 14:40 | <ogra> th ewiki can tel
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| 14:40 | l
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| 14:41 | <stgraber> oh, we have that on the wiki ?
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| 14:42 | <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration
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| 14:42 | slangasek
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| 14:50 | * alkisg also wonders, if there was a man in the middle, why would he bother with ssh instead of sending a customized nbd image with a modified ldm that doesn't use ssh at all... :P | |
| 14:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: more work
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| 14:51 | <alkisg> Heh... good enough
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| 14:51 | <Gadi> ...and where are all the women if not in the middle?
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| 14:53 | <vagrantc> besides, just because it's impossible to implement security perfectly, that's no reason to ignore all risks entirely.
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| 14:53 | <alkisg> vagrantc, yeap, you're right.
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| 15:10 | <gbolte> hello
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| 15:10 | anyone know of a decent graphics card to use with ltsp?
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| 15:11 | <ogra> wow ...
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| 15:11 | http://me-am-brasil.livejournal.com/
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| 15:13 | <gbolte> interesting ogra
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| 15:13 | :P
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| 15:13 | <ogra> gbolte, surely every intel card would be good btw ...
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| 15:14 | so if you can find any clients with intel onboard that wuld be the best you could get
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| 15:14 | <gbolte> yeah thats what I was thinking we have had noting but bad luck with our nvidia setup
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| 15:15 | <ogra> heh
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| 15:15 | well, its nvidia after all
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| 15:15 | i think the ATI/AMD cards will get better soon as well
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| 15:15 | nvidia will be bad until they decide to open up
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| 15:16 | <gbolte> we seem to have a constant issue with workstations locking up and slowing to a crawl with things like thunderbird and adobe pdf
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| 15:24 | <japerry> ogra: are you currently using intel integrated with your LTSP clients?
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> If the dhcp server doesn't send hostnames along with ip addresses, all TCs are named 'ltsp'. I think it would be more helpful in some setups if they were named ltsp138, from the last IP byte, or even 192-168-0-138. Does anyone think this isn't a really bad idea? :)
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| 15:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yeah, there's a debian bug about that
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| 15:28 | alkisg: i looked into it some...
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| 15:28 | <Eghie> alkisg: that would only working in a /24 network
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| 15:28 | and smaller
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| 15:28 | <alkisg> Eghie, it would be better than nothing, but the long form would work for all ipv4 networks
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| 15:28 | <vagrantc> alkisg: http://bugs.debian.org/483760
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| 15:29 | <Eghie> it is indeed better than nothing yes
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I may try a patch for it, if anyone's interested...
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> alkisg: go for it.
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> vagrantc, thanks!
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| 15:29 | <Eghie> but I guess a UUID kind of thing or make use of the MAC address would be better
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> the short form or the long one?
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| 15:29 | <Eghie> kind of CRC or something
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| 15:29 | <vagrantc> the mac address gets a little visually ugly
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| 15:29 | <Eghie> just a small hash
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| 15:29 | <alkisg> what about the pxelinux encoding of the ip?
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| 15:29 | CA080001
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| 15:30 | <ogra> japerry, i have one, generally intel is supported best for ll features, simply due to the fact that they opensource all of their drivers
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| 15:30 | <vagrantc> although at freegeek, we just end up having a script that sets the hostname early in the boot process
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| 15:30 | <Eghie> alkisg: could be helpfull
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| 15:30 | alkisg: or IP to long
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> Eghie, so, 192-168-0-123 ?
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| 15:30 | * ogra goes afk | |
| 15:30 | <johnny> alkisg, fedora does that
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| 15:30 | client-$(ip)
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| 15:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: the real trick would be to get hostnames that were useable usernames
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| 15:31 | <Eghie> alkisg: see: http://gtools.org/tool/ip-long-convert/
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| 15:31 | <johnny> i integrated warren's work
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> vagrantc, any hostnames would be better than no hostnames... :)
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| 15:31 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 15:31 | it used to be "(none)"
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| 15:31 | <johnny> it'd be nice if fedora/gentoo/ubuntu/debian would have the same default hostnames
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| 15:31 | <warren> what work?
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> I mean, if I have a router=dhcp server, and it doesn't send any hostnames,
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| 15:31 | <johnny> warren, client-$(ip)
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| 15:31 | for default hostnames
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| 15:31 | <alkisg> then I can just put all ltsp123, ltsp124 etc in my /etc/hosts...
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| 15:32 | <johnny> warren, i try to run revisor in fedora10, and it wants me to do someting with selinux
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| 15:32 | and won't work :(
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| 15:32 | is that the tool i should be using?
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| 15:32 | <warren> I've never used revizor ever
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| 15:32 | <johnny> oh.. ok
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| 15:32 | <warren> what are you trying to do?
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| 15:32 | <johnny> i thought it was the preferred spin creator tool
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| 15:32 | <warren> no
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| 15:32 | livecd-tools
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| 15:33 | <johnny> that's a gui thing ?
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| 15:33 | warren, http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/ FYI
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| 15:34 | <japerry> ogra: yah I'm thinking having them open source is the key to making it work
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| 15:34 | I thought the nvidia drivers were fairly stable, and are for thick-clients.. but something is leaking on thin-client applications
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| 15:35 | <warren> johnny: revizor is a competing project
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| 15:35 | <johnny> oh
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| 15:35 | <warren> livecd-tools is the official thing, it isn't pretty
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| 15:35 | revizor is a fork that is pretty
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| 15:35 | <johnny> aha..
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| 15:35 | <warren> revizor does a lot more than livecd-tools
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| 15:35 | but not as stable
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| 15:36 | <johnny> thanks warren
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| 15:36 | i'm trying to get some huge flash drive
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| 15:36 | so i can boot off this fedora10 install wherever i go
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| 15:36 | <warren> why do you need revizor for that?
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| 15:36 | <johnny> i wish i could just carry one big key..
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| 15:36 | and have a fat32 partition for portable apps..
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| 15:36 | <warren> you can either do a plain install onto the flash drive, or install the live img with persistent overlay and separate /home
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| 15:37 | johnny: https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/
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| 15:38 | <_UsUrPeR__> johnny: I've done the plain install on a 2.5" USB drive
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> vagrantc, Eghie, I think it would be better if I checked the subnet mask, and if it's /24 => hostname = ltsp254, if it's /16 => ltsp65534 etc... So, hostname = 'ltsp' + 1-to-max-number-of-clients-based-on-subnet-mask.
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| 15:38 | <_UsUrPeR__> worked great until my car pushed the drive off my desk
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| 15:38 | :(
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| 15:38 | car = cat
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| 15:38 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sounds reasonable
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| 15:39 | <Eghie> alkisg: wouldn't it be better to have a hostname which will stay even when IP changes?
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| 15:39 | alkisg: like using the MAC address?
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| 15:39 | <johnny> warren, is there any way you'd want to fllow the same standard here for generated hostnames ?
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| 15:39 | follow*
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| 15:39 | <johnny> i'd go the same for gentoo
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> Eghie, but how would the server know to map this hostname to an IP adress?
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| 15:39 | <warren> johnny: what standard?
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| 15:40 | <Eghie> alkisg: using it´s MAC address
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| 15:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: basically, there are probably several ways to configure it, and the part that stalled me was not knowing how to make it configurable from the initramfs
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| 15:40 | <Eghie> alkisg: you can do some kind of "hash calculation" on the mac address
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| 15:40 | <johnny> warren, there isn't one yet.. :)
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| 15:40 | i'm just using what you have
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| 15:40 | <vagrantc> Eghie: it would also be nice to have something that was simply readable
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| 15:40 | <Eghie> maybe just the last nrs + first nr's combined
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> Eghie, suppose a very simple dhcp server is used. A client with mac address = X gets an ip of 192.168.0.123. How does the server know what to put in its /etc/hosts file?
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| 15:41 | <johnny> but it'd be nice if we could all use the same function
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| 15:41 | <vagrantc> Eghie: i.e. i can remember 3 digits... so sometimes i boot a client, look at the hostname, and then go check it in the server logs
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| 15:41 | <alkisg> vagrantc, what do you mean? After ipconfig is called, the ip is known, so hostname can be modified (if it is empty, that is)
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| 15:41 | <Eghie> alkisg: using the MAC address of the host getting the IP and combine the first and the last NR's for example
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| 15:41 | gives you 4 characters
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: but i've had requests to base it on ip address, on mac address, and numerous other ways...
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| 15:42 | alkisg: so how to decide which to use in a configurable way?
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> vagrantc, ok, you can't satisfy them all.. :)
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| 15:42 | <vagrantc> alkisg: exactly
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| 15:43 | <Eghie> hostnames are easy if they can be used even with change of IP address
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so instead i left it as is, and it's easy enough to include an extra script if they want it
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I think basing this on mac address is useless in most cases. Let me finish the talk with Eghie for this.
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| 15:43 | <Eghie> MAC addresses don't change that often
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| 15:43 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i.e. if [ "$hostname" = "ltsp"]; then... my_crazy_idea_for_how_it_should_be ; fi
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| 15:43 | <alkisg> Eghie, my point is that the server won't know how to map the given hostname to an ip address
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> mac address is great if you want consistant information across boots with dynamic ip addresses
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| 15:44 | <Eghie> alkisg: why not?
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> The client will know, but not the server, because it won't know the ip address that the client got
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> maybe that's not necessary for some uses
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> vagrantc, Eghie, give me an example...
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| 15:44 | <Eghie> alkisg: when the DHCP gives out an IP address, it knows 3 things, the client his IP which he is going to give, Client MAC and the generated hostname
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| 15:45 | alkisg: the server does know which MAC is getting which IP
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| 15:45 | alkisg: that's what a DHCP server is all about
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> Eghie, the DHCP is not always on the ltsp server... If it is, then they may just use static host entries in dhcpd.conf
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| 15:45 | <vagrantc> alkisg: an inventory system based on mac address?
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| 15:45 | <Eghie> alkisg: even then
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> vagrantc, I lost you! :)
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| 15:46 | Eghie, suppose the dhcp server is a simple router
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| 15:46 | <Eghie> ok
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| 15:46 | arp?
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> If dhcp server == ltsp server, then there's no point to generated hostnames...
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| 15:46 | Eghie, or nsupdate, but we don't have this on the chroot
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: http://bugs.debian.org/483760
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| 15:47 | <Eghie> alkisg: is that not serverside?
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that's the main use-case i've heard about, other than our simple case at freegeek
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| 15:47 | * alkisg is reading the bug report... | |
| 15:48 | <vagrantc> at freegeek, it just requires some crazy stuff that i wouldn't recommend pushing upstream ... though it's basically based on ip with the trailing /24 part of the ip address... and the rest of the ip address determines the host name
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| 15:49 | <Eghie> you have various ways to communicate your data to the server from the client
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| 15:49 | <Eghie> so even things like MAC + IP
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> vagrantc, so an lts.conf option like GENERATED_HOSTNAME='ltsp$a$b$c$d' would satisfy them all?
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> alkisg: maybe
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| 15:50 | <alkisg> Where $a = ip bytes, or $xyz = mac address bytes...
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| 15:50 | <vagrantc> some sort of templating would probably do... but that seems like a lot of work to implement in initramfs
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> vagrantc, implementing this wouldn't need more than 10 lines, I think...
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| 15:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i await the results :)
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> vagrantc, which ones? I still prefer ltsp+ip part based on subnet... :)
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| 15:53 | templating?
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that seems like the most flexible.
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| 15:53 | <Eghie> hmm, another use-case: client1 gets errors and is a system with a lot of problems and has a log under his hostname
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> OK, templating it is. No additions / sums etc thought! :)
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| 15:53 | <Eghie> on reboot client1 gets another ip, so another hostname
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| 15:54 | that would mean, logs under another hostname
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| 15:54 | <vagrantc> right
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| 15:54 | <Eghie> so, system administrator will have difficulties to know that is 1 client which has problems, instead of 2 clients
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| 15:54 | <alkisg> Eghie, you think a templating system based on ip/mac digits is reasonable?
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| 15:55 | <Eghie> alkisg: I do indeed think that
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| 15:55 | but for debugging reasons I would default that to MAC
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> OK, it fits my needs too, so templating it is. And defaulting to MAC is not a problem for me.
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| 15:55 | <Eghie> because it's easier to look for a certain machine
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it needs to at least not explode if lts.conf isn't available, though
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| 15:56 | <Eghie> sed is a powerfull language to use for templating
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i.e. default back to previous behavior
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> vagrantc, previous behavior? Not default = mac-address ?
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> alkisg: oh whatever. come up with something and i'll mangle it, if needed :)
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> Heh, ok.
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| 15:57 | A last think: should I do it in the initramfs or later?
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| 15:57 | I think both can be done...
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> the initramfs ensures it's early enough
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| 15:58 | selffik has quit IRC | |
| 15:58 | <vagrantc> later gives you more available tools
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> OK... I think the tools will be enough in initramfs
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| 15:58 | <Eghie> on what point logging kicks in?
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> at freegeek we run a custom init script very early in the process
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| 15:58 | Eghie: pretty late in the process
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| 15:59 | <Eghie> vagrantc: then it could be even outside of the initramfs I think
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| 15:59 | <johnny> it is outside of the initramfs in gentoo and fedora
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| 15:59 | <alkisg> There's a hostname.sh somewhere, I'll check when it's called, maybe I'll put it near there
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| 15:59 | <Eghie> but I guess the basic tools you will already have in the initramfs
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| 16:00 | so, technically both can, and I prefer early as possible
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: we insert it into hostname.sh at freegeek
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| 16:00 | <Eghie> to keep processes happy which use the local hostname
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> OK, thank you all... good night!
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| 16:02 | <Eghie> good night, alkisg
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| 16:32 | <stgraber> warren: does the "groups" command also exist on fedora ?
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| 16:33 | <warren> [root@newcaprica ~]# which groups
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| 16:33 | /usr/bin/groups
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| 16:33 | [root@newcaprica ~]# rpm -qf /usr/bin/groups
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| 16:33 | coreutils-6.12-17.fc10.x86_64
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| 16:33 | <stgraber> warren: I'm looking at a replacement of "/usr/bin/getent group|egrep "[,:]${LDM_USERNAME}(,|$)"|cut -d: -f1| tr '\n' ',' | sed -e 's/,$//g')" that also shows the result of pam_group
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| 16:33 | good, so I'll just use "groups" instead, way shorter and similar result :)
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| 16:34 | <johnny> yes..
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| 16:34 | <stgraber> warren: are you a BSG fan ? :) (noticed the "newcaprica")
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| 16:35 | <warren> stgraber: New Caprica is about hope.
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| 16:35 | <johnny> warren you big dork
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| 16:35 | i'm not that interested in most sci series
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| 16:37 | <warren> I revoke your dork membership
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| 16:55 | <Gadi> stgraber: you should put full path to groups
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| 16:55 | otherwise it is a security hole
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| 16:57 | <dberkholz> i suspect that if you can inject path like that, you've already lost
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| 16:57 | <Gadi> dberkholz: it is run as the user logging in
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| 16:57 | on many distros, someone can easily put a script in ~/bin/groups
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| 16:58 | and have it execute first
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| 16:58 | <stgraber> Gadi: are you sure groups is always in /usr/bin/ ?
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| 16:58 | <dberkholz> so the user can put a script in their own home directory and have it execute as themselves?
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| 16:58 | <Gadi> were we sure that getent was?
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| 16:58 | <dberkholz> i must be missing some context here. /me reads up
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| 16:59 | <Gadi> :)
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| 16:59 | <stgraber> Gadi: I'd hope so :) I never like to put a full path when I'm not sure it'll work with all distros
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| 16:59 | <Gadi> I think we erred on the side of caution
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| 17:00 | otherwise, I will write a virus to send to ltsp users that downloads a script in ~/bin/groups
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| 17:00 | rm -rf $HOME ?
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| 17:00 | <dberkholz> if you're worried about path, explicitly set it at the top of the script
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| 17:00 | keeps things a lot more readable imho
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| 17:00 | <Gadi> dberkholz: its not our script
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| 17:00 | :)
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| 17:01 | though, you could do: ssh..... "PATH=... groups ..."
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| 17:02 | <stgraber> well, I'm fine putting /usr/bin/, it seems to be where it's at least in Ubuntu and Fedora, I didn't know that some distros had ~/bin in their PATH
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> stgraber: the user can set whatever they want in their path
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| 17:03 | <vagrantc> #!/bin/sh ; echo root
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| 17:04 | the whole localapps infrastructure introduces a few security nightmares...
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| 17:04 | <stgraber> vagrantc: well, the user can also do some LD_PRELOAD in its .bashrc then, overwrite any function and just do whatever they want with it
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| 17:05 | <vagrantc> indeed.
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| 17:05 | if /usr/bin/group is standard enough, though, that's a simple precation
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| 17:05 | <stgraber> the problem is that we ask the user to tell us in what group he's
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| 17:06 | <vagrantc> yeah, that is a bit on the sketchy side
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| 17:07 | <Gadi> we ask each user's server what group the user's in
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| 17:07 | * Gadi is unclear what is sketchy about that | |
| 17:08 | <stgraber> Gadi: as long as the user can do LD_PRELOAD every command is unsafe, even with a full path. full path just makes things a bit harder
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| 17:09 | <Gadi> are you sure ssh <command> honors .bashrc?
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| 17:09 | <stgraber> if it doesn't then PATH isn't a problem either
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| 17:10 | <Gadi> good point - perhaps there is a flag to ssh to not import server env
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| 17:11 | then, we set our own PATH
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| 17:11 | which is the only PATH
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| 17:11 | <stgraber> Gadi: I just tried, with hardy's ssh, .bashrc is executed even it not starting a shell (ssh login@host ls)
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| 17:12 | <Gadi> ah - by default, ssh sets PATH
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| 17:13 | (just checked man ssh)
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| 17:13 | so, it uses its own compiled-in PATH
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| 17:13 | rather than server PATH
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| 17:14 | <stgraber> good feature
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| 17:18 | <Gadi> vagrantc: I just found a quotation bug in my xrandr script
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| 17:18 | let me fix and push
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| 17:19 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i've taken a glance at it... definitely don't have anything to test the 9-headed monster on... or even two headed monster...
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| 17:20 | Gadi: i was also curious why not just use X_MODE_0 instead of XRANDR_MODE_0 ? and then there's XRANDR_NEWMODE_0 ... ?
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| 17:20 | <Gadi> well, first - I am trying to make things clean
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| 17:20 | believe it or not
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| 17:20 | :)
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| 17:20 | in LTSP 4, you could specify X_MODE_0 = <mode> or <modeline>
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> and i'm just kind of randr clueless, so i'm just trying to figure things out :)
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| 17:21 | <Gadi> in 5, we dropped the support for <modeline>
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> right
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| 17:21 | <Gadi> but, with xrandr, you can set mode or newmode (modeline)
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| 17:21 | so, I thought it would be good to bring that back in
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| 17:21 | <vagrantc> ah.
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| 17:21 | <Gadi> now, in current LTSP,
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| 17:22 | the digit in X_MODE_<blah>
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| 17:22 | refers to one of up to three modelines
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| 17:22 | but, having more than 1 modeline only makes sense when you are forcing a limited subset of modes
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| 17:22 | and in practical use, almost everyone uses 1 -> X_MODE_0
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| 17:22 | now, with xrandr, it will fail gracefully
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| 17:23 | so, we don't limit the modelines to achieve a desired mode
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| 17:23 | we simply request a mode
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| 17:23 | and add it if need-be
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| 17:23 | in my implementation, the digits now refer to displays
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| 17:23 | so, multiheads would be: 0, 1, 2
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| 17:23 | etc
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| 17:23 | <vagrantc> right...
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| 17:23 | <Gadi> and you could customize modes for each head
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| 17:23 | as needed
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> so the X_MODE_1 != XRANDR_NEWMODE_1
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| 17:24 | <Gadi> exactly
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| 17:24 | but, for backwards compat, I make X_MODE_0 do the right thing on display 0
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| 17:24 | <vagrantc> got it
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| 17:25 | Gadi: any reason why you implemented that as a for loop ?
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| 17:25 | <stgraber> Gadi: I haven't looked at that script yet but what do you do for multi-head and the Virtual thing ?
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| 17:25 | <Gadi> well, the for loop is to loop through settings for each head
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| 17:25 | if specified
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| 17:25 | as for "Virtual"
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| 17:25 | <vagrantc> for i in ${X_MODE_0}; do
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| 17:25 | ??
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| 17:25 | <Gadi> turns out only some drivers need it
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| 17:26 | like "via" AFAIK
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| 17:26 | but, some, like nvidia, do not need Virtual at all
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| 17:26 | <stgraber> I had to use it on intel and ati
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| 17:26 | <Gadi> and can be done completely with xrandr
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| 17:26 | <stgraber> fglrx and nvidia shouldn't need it
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| 17:26 | <Gadi> so, I figured, if we detect multiple heads connected, try to make it multihead
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| 17:26 | <stgraber> but you need the binary driver then
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| 17:27 | <Gadi> if we need VIRTUAL, then we will need configure-x for that
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| 17:27 | vagrantc: ah, that for loop was to loop through the modeline params
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| 17:27 | <stgraber> right, let's hope they'll find a way not to need Virtual soon, at least on intel
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| 17:27 | <Gadi> I wanted an easy way to break it up without using awk/sed
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| 17:28 | and t wc
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> Gadi: which we haven't/didn't support in ltsp5 ...
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| 17:28 | <Gadi> didnt support which?
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| 17:28 | modeline?
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| 17:28 | right
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| 17:28 | <vagrantc> X_MODE_0 modeline
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| 17:28 | <Gadi> exactly
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| 17:29 | but, its easy to loop through and see how many arguments there are
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> so why not if [ -n "$X_MODE_0" ]; then....
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| 17:29 | <Gadi> if its 1, its a mode name
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| 17:29 | more than 1, and its a modeline
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| 17:29 | so, as I loop, I count
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| 17:29 | <vagrantc> ok.
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| 17:29 | <Gadi> I can break at 2, I suppose :)
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| 17:29 | rafaelmf has quit IRC | |
| 17:29 | <vagrantc> just want to figure out the logic of it before i go suggesting ways to clean it up :)
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| 17:29 | <Gadi> save a nanosecond or two
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| 17:30 | <vagrantc> about all i think i'll be in a position to test will be MODE stuff
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| 17:30 | <Gadi> stgraber: yeah, I hope all the drivers can adapt
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| 17:31 | it seems the ones that have their own ways of doing dualhead, dont need it
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| 17:31 | but, the ones that rely on Xorg do
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| 17:31 | you know, like some have TwinView(tm), blah blah
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| 17:31 | :)
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| 17:31 | Via has SAMM
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| 17:31 | * Gadi wonders why they cannot handle it | |
| 17:32 | <Gadi> (or maybe the binary driver can?)
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| 17:32 | vagrantc: any testing would be great
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| 17:32 | <stgraber> via doesn't handle randr correctly at all last I checked
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| 17:32 | only has a "default" output
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| 17:32 | (via = openchrome in this case)
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| 17:33 | <vagrantc> i guess i can actually bother to plug in my i810 laptop, and i've got a disklessworkstations 1220 (i think)
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| 17:33 | <Gadi> stgraber: yeah
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| 17:33 | stgraber: I think SAMM is in the binary driver
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| 17:33 | but, it is also xorg.conf based
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| 17:33 | afaik
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| 17:34 | vagrantc: test the one I just pushed, tho
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| 17:35 | because the quoting in the first one messed things up
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| 17:35 | <vagrantc> Gadi: sure
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| 17:35 | Gadi: pulled already
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| 17:35 | <Gadi> btw: does the ldm login screen in your openbox have the textbox shifted right a bit?
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| 17:36 | s/openbox/virtualbox/
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| 17:36 | is that on purpose?
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| 17:36 | I noticed it only in intrepid
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| 17:36 | and I am not sure if it is intentional
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| 17:37 | <vagrantc> i've never measured it exactly, but sometimes it seems off-center, yes.
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| 18:16 | <Ryan52> I centered it.
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| 18:16 | and I think that's what ogra meant by "breaking" the theme.
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| 18:17 | well, my patch that fixes wide logos centers it.
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| 18:17 | anyway, after that I decided not to touch the GUI stuff anymore :P
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| 18:34 | <gbolte> h,,
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| 18:34 | er
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| 18:34 | hmm
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| 18:35 | nice nick CAN-o-SPAM_
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| 18:35 | :/
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> of course, now that i finally test gadi's xrandr stuff, and it's exploding... nowhere to be found.
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| 19:40 | <stgraber> vagrantc: is that in bzr yet ?
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> stgraber: not trunk...
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| 19:41 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gideon/ltsp/ltsp-trunk-xrandr/
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| 19:42 | <stgraber> ok, looking. I need xrandr support for some computers at the office (only the screen resolution bit, not dual-head yet)
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| 19:43 | vagrantc: ok, what lts.conf parameters did you use and what happened (if anything happened) ?
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| 19:45 | <vagrantc> stgraber: XRANDR_MODE_0=640x480 ...
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| 19:45 | stgraber: ldm just kept restarting
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| 19:46 | <vagrantc> stgraber: it was running "xrandr --output default --mode 640x480"
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| 19:46 | <vagrantc> i tweaked the script so it would run with --output 0 instead, and it doesn't work, but it doesn't cause ldm to fail either
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| 19:47 | <stgraber> vagrantc: what's the result of "xrandr" on your system ?
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| 19:49 | <ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "xrandr on virtualbox" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/112
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| 19:50 | <vagrantc> i'll try with real hardware some other time
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| 19:50 | <stgraber> ok, so xrandr --output default --mode 640x480 should have worked
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| 19:50 | but I have a theory of why ldm was restarting
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| 19:51 | maybe X isn't start with -noreset
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| 19:51 | so when the last client exists (xrandr in this case) X exists and is then respawned
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| 19:51 | *exits
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> running it from a logged in session causes X to reset
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| 19:52 | <stgraber> oh, so that's a VB problem then
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| 19:52 | or a bug in the video driver
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| 19:56 | <vagrantc> i could also try with qemu
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| 19:57 | although i think i'm done for the night...
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| 19:57 | <stgraber> let's just hope it's not the same video driver used by both :)
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| 19:58 | I did a quick try on an intel based thin client and "xrandr --output LVDS --mode 640x480" worked well (on Intel the default output is LVDS, not default)
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| 19:58 | <vagrantc> i can fairly easily test virtualbox, qemu, my old laptop and a disklessworkstations 1220 (in order of ease)
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| 19:59 | i'll give them all a spin maybe wednesday or thursday
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| 19:59 | but definitely wouldn't want to merge it without more testing :)
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| 20:00 | <stgraber> I'll add it to the chroot I have in the office and if I get a minute tomorrow I'll do some test on it with intel, ati, matrox and via video cards
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| 20:00 | doh, too late
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| 21:11 | <petre> warren, ping
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| 21:12 | <warren> ?
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| 21:20 | <petre> in the RC1, is the document called "Readme..." or "Quick Start Guide"?
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| 21:21 | I can't remember when we decided to change the name
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| 21:28 | <warren> petre: you decided to rename it after RC1
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| 21:28 | petre: you are now hereby ordained Product Manager, I'm just the tech
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| 21:29 | petre: anyhow, we have to figure out exactly how jetpipe broke before pushing a F9 final
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| 21:29 | petre: and immediately get started on a F10 version
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| 21:30 | petre: or maybe we should rename RC1 to final and just focus on F10?
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| 21:30 | RC1 is pretty good except for the text of that readme
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| 21:32 | <petre> I agree; how hard would it be to make an rc2 with the Quick Start Guide?
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| 21:33 | <warren> petre: not hard, just time consuming
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| 21:33 | petre: I'm swamped with other things right now, do you want to be trained?
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| 21:33 | petre: but if spinning a new image, might as well fix jetpipe first
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| 21:33 | petre: do you have a client and a local printer to plug into it?
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| 21:33 | <petre> I'd be delighted, with the qualifier that my spare time comes in spurts
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| 21:33 | <warren> (That is what jetpipe is for right?)
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| 21:34 | <petre> right
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| 21:34 | <warren> we have to fix jetpipe for both F9 and F10 anyway
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| 21:34 | I can probably get to jetpipe on Friday
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| 21:34 | <petre> yes, I've got some laptops I use for clients, and a printer I can test with
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| 21:34 | <warren> at the soonest
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| 21:34 | but i don't have a local printer
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| 21:35 | <petre> I don't know if I can get to it before Thursday, but I'll try; perhaps tomorrow evening or Wed. evening
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| 21:35 | depends heavily on the plans of the rest of my family
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| 21:36 | was jetpipe just not working? or what problem did you hear about?
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| 21:36 | <warren> k12linux-devel-list
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| 21:36 | someone complains that the latest F9 update broke his working jetpipe
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| 21:36 | but failed to provide any more info
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| 21:36 | it is plausible that it broke, possibly for a simple stupid reason
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| 21:37 | like the changes that went in related to jetpipe have a Debianism
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| 21:37 | I've never used jetpipe before so I can't easily test it
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| 21:38 | <petre> ah, yes, that was William Fragakis; I know him
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| 21:39 | there may be more to his config that he mentioned
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| 21:39 | <warren> could you please talk to him? He failed to respond.
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| 21:40 | <petre> he had some systems that he had upgraded from previous Fedora versions
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| 21:40 | and then he recently posted his notes about moving from ltsp 4.2 to 5
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| 21:40 | <warren> petre: is the latest version of your docs posted to the bugzilla ticket?
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| 21:40 | <petre> (I was impressed, as I didn't think it would work)
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| 21:40 | yes
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| 21:40 | <warren> k
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| 21:41 | * petre goes to check to make sure he didn't dream posting it | |
| 21:41 | <warren> petre: you might also want to put those docs at a URL again and ask k12osn and k12linux lists to review them.
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| 21:41 | petre: I am also asking a few people to translate that doc into a few key languages.
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| 21:42 | <petre> yes, it's there
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| 21:42 | ok. I've got the HTML version, i.e., not the rpm, on my web server, as I've had to point a few people to it
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| 21:43 | I'll post a message to the lists for feedback/review
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| 21:43 | <warren> ok, please post the URL on the list and ask for reviews and opinions
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| 21:43 | thanks
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| 21:44 | <petre> and yes, I'll check with William
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| 21:44 | <warren> petre: if you have any time this long Thanksgiving weekend, I'd like to train you on building the live image. It is not hard at all.
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| 21:44 | petre: and I would like to restart my attendance at the weekly meetings beginning this Sunday
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| 21:45 | <petre> I've re-built ISOs before, I assume this is somewhat similar
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| 21:45 | yeah, I've been on every Sun. morning, but I haven't seen anyone else for a few weeks
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| 21:45 | <warren> the old K12LTSP ISO's?
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| 21:46 | the tools are completely different from that
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| 21:46 | <petre> no, ubuntu, and Centos 4.x & 5.x
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| 21:46 | <warren> ok, anyway it isn't hard
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| 21:46 | i'll show you
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| 21:46 | <petre> ubuntu for my purposes, centos for my dayjob
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| 21:46 | Sounds good
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| 21:46 | <warren> you running F9 or F10 on your main machine now?
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| 21:46 | <petre> F9
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| 21:46 | <warren> ok, that's better than me actually
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| 21:47 | I'm not 100% sure F10 can safely make a F9 image
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| 21:47 | <petre> and nfs is broken such that I can't get it to serve the vmclient
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| 21:47 | or any other clients for that matter
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| 21:48 | <warren> /etc/exports?
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| 21:48 | checked iptables?
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| 21:48 | <petre> but I've got an Athlon64 desktop that I also test on
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| 21:48 | <warren> sometimes you have to restart the nfs service
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| 21:48 | <petre> iptables is off, exports looks good
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| 21:49 | I get this when I try to start it:
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| 21:49 | Starting NFS quotas: Cannot register service: RPC: Unable to receive; errno = Connection refused
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| 21:49 | rpc.rquotad: unable to register (RQUOTAPROG, RQUOTAVERS, udp)
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| 21:49 | and yet the portmap-replacement (forget the name ATM) is running
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| 21:50 | <warren> did you restart rpcbind?
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| 21:50 | same problem after rebooting?
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| 21:50 | <petre> rpcbind, that's the name; yes, it seems to be running
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| 21:50 | oh, yes, I noticed it had stopped working about a week ago
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| 21:50 | and haven't been able to figure out why
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| 21:51 | so I just switch to the Athlon box and do my work there
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| 21:51 | not sure what I did to break it, either
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| 21:53 | anyway, do you want to show me building the ISO on Sunday morning?
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| 21:53 | I'm pretty sure I can be free then, perhaps even any of the mornings Thur-Sun
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| 21:53 | <warren> Sunday probably good
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| 21:53 | <petre> as I get up pretty early
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| 21:54 | <warren> we'll talk before then
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