IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 27 June 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:15 | <alkisg> Is there any advantage to printer sharing with jetpipe? Why don't we use plain cups sharing instead?
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| 06:20 | Ah, is it because of lack of printer drivers in thin chroots?
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| 06:21 | <muppis> Yes.
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| 06:21 | And no reason to run cups in every client to just pipe to server.
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| 06:22 | <elias_a_> alkisg: About the Pyramus test account.
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| 06:23 | After upgrade the functionality for creating test accounts is broken.
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| 06:24 | I have admin rights to the demo to help you out but I cannot do it.
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| 06:24 | <alkisg> muppis: but does jetpipe work for any printer that cups supports, or with that we're limited to only a few supported printers?
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| 06:24 | <elias_a_> It is already holiday season in Finland so I do not know how quickly they are going to answer my support request.
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| 06:25 | alkisg: I will get back to you as soon as they respond.
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| 06:25 | <alkisg> elias_a_: no worries, I'm not into using ...secretery-like tools anyway :D, but I did post the link to the forum for other teachers unfortunate enough to have such duties :D
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| 06:26 | <elias_a_> alkisg: Yep - I understood that already :)
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| 06:26 | <muppis> alkisg, afaik it just act likes a mediaconverter for usb/lp to ethernet.
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> elias_a_: It's a weird situation about such tools here in greece, they're usually handled by IT teachers that don't have enough teaching hours
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| 06:26 | <elias_a_> But anyways - it is better to play around with such toys with an account.
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| 06:26 | <alkisg> So most of them are considered unlucky :D
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| 06:27 | <elias_a_> alkisg: What? Really strange!
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> elias_a_: so, if you have something that I could post publicly, then I'll do so, but I'm not really interested to try it out myself
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| 06:27 | <elias_a_> Ok. I understand.
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| 06:27 | <alkisg> muppis: thanks, ok, sounds useful for thin clients then
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| 06:28 | <elias_a_> alkisg: This was a very good piece of information for me. I (as people usually do) assumed that things are the same everywhere else as here...
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| 06:28 | Here the admin IT is separated from the IT that is used for education.
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> elias_a_: that's only true here for only a handful of schools... only very large schools are fortunate enough to have someone to serve as a secretary (just one, not many)
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| 06:30 | <elias_a_> I could actually as Schooltool user group about how the administration is taken care of. Schooltool is used in very many countries.
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| 06:30 | <alkisg> And, there's usually no admin stuff, the IT teacher gets 3 hours per week to care about his computer lab
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| 06:30 | That's why I'm striving to automate anything, because I can't expect every IT teacher to invest to learn all about LTSP...
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| 06:31 | <elias_a_> alkisg: Ok. Now I am beginning to see why your LTSP model is so lucrative :P
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| 06:31 | alkisg: You are doing a damn good job, you!
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| 06:31 | <alkisg> Hehe, thanks, I hope so... the expected end result is just to have everything running easily so that we can focus on our teaching duties
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| 08:43 | <Hyperbyte> Hey everyone
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| 15:45 | <stgraber> alkisg: heya. Can't remember if you saw my message last week regarding epoptes. I changed the dependencies to | ssvnc so that it's buildable on armhf.
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| 15:46 | <vagrantc> build-dependencies?
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| 15:46 | <alkisg> Hi stgraber, I saw it but I was in a travel for a workshop so I didn't have time to check it out
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| 15:46 | stgraber: the client side was already OK, and the change was needed in the server side?
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| 15:46 | <stgraber> alkisg: IIRC the client side was just suggesting ssvnc, it wasn't a conditional dependency as it should have been
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| 15:47 | vagrantc: s/buildable/installable/ :)
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> ah
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> stgraber: gotcha, if you have a diff I can commit it upstream
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| 15:47 | <vagrantc> i can't really test, but i can sponsor uploads :)
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| 15:48 | at least for debian
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I don't have anything more for LTSP, and I only have this ^ for epoptes
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| 15:49 | * vagrantc ponders new upstream vs. patches for ltsp | |
| 15:49 | <vagrantc> a bunch of the changes are gentoo-specific ... though i do have roughly 2.5 days left before freeze
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| 15:52 | ooh. unique dbus id's
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> That was tricky to pinpoint
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| 15:52 | <vagrantc> that might actually fix a number of issues
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> The symptom was "sudo gedit" not working in ltsp-pnp :O
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| 15:53 | I couldn't even imagine how it would be possible for the server to get notified of the thin client client dbus id
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| 15:54 | They're using a hidden X window to store it...
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| 15:54 | (similar to what we do with xprop)
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| 15:54 | stgraber: code changes were also needed for server side ssvnc, right?
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| 15:55 | <stgraber> alkisg: I just changed the depends, it's quite possible the server side is just broken on armhf :)
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> stgraber: up until now, we only committed bug fixes in epoptes, just in case you'd want to SRU it to 12.04. Should I tag what we have now, or should we also commit that one and it wouldn't affect a possible SRU?
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| 15:56 | <stgraber> (though I didn't quite care at the time, I just wanted epoptes installable so we could actually generate an install media)
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, with the cups changes ... why kill the mkdir /etc/cups ?
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> vagrantc: mkdir and then check if the dir exists?!
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| 15:56 | If the dir doesn't exist, why bother?
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| 15:56 | <vagrantc> ah right, we merged two generations of code
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| 15:57 | alkisg: i think the packages we install don't necessarily create that dir, and it was created in the ltsp-build-client plugins
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| 15:57 | but maybe things have since changed.
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| 15:57 | <stgraber> alkisg: I think the easiest for 12.04 will be to do per-commit cherry-picks, so I guess you can just go ahead and commit features changes to your trunk branch
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| 15:57 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so is there any case at all that that dir wouldn't exist, and cups would be installed?
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| 15:58 | <stgraber> alkisg: the diff from my upload last week: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1062753/
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| 15:58 | <vagrantc> alkisg: there used to be, dunno if that's the case anymore.
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> stgraber: we only have fixes that deserve a cherry pick, and translation updates, nothing else, so far
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| 15:59 | E.g. Phantomas wanted to put a simple "zoom" slider and I told him to wait as it would be a "feature"
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| 16:00 | vagrantc: cups ships /etc/cups here... anyway I don't mind either way, maybe we can leave it as is until some other distro mentions that it has cups without /etc/cups?
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| 16:00 | <vagrantc> alkisg: sure
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> Hmm maybe the mkdir and then the test were there to test for bind mounts
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| 16:01 | ro root etc
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| 16:02 | <vagrantc> possible, yes.
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| 16:02 | knipwim: you're still using bindmounts?
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> Hmm and cups-client *doesn't* ship etc...
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| 16:03 | <knipwim> vagrantc: yes
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| 16:04 | i looked at aufs and the likes
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| 16:04 | <stgraber> alkisg: so I had a quick look at epoptes in Ubuntu. I won't be able to upload it without any change to 12.04 for an SRU but I'll cherry-pick all the changes and put them in a single changelog entry. I'm going to need a LP bug for every change though (except for translations)
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> OK I'll put it back, it should be safer for now
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| 16:04 | <knipwim> vagrantc: but a lot of trouble implementing it
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| 16:04 | <alkisg> stgraber: I think we have one for each bug
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc> knipwim: your initramfs giving you trouble with it, or other issues?
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| 16:05 | <knipwim> mostly that one
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| 16:05 | also because it's not in the kernel
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc> oh, i see.
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> knipwim: so if I found a way to do the aufs mount from /sbin/init-ltsp, it would help gentoo?
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| 16:06 | <vagrantc> is overlayfs mainlined yet?
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| 16:07 | <ogra_> no
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| 16:07 | <knipwim> alkisg: it would help i guess, but i still would have to find a way to integrate it nicely in the build process
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| 16:08 | is it a problem? doing bind mounts?
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> Just a bit... additional checks, comfusing code in some cases when there are no comments...
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| 16:08 | <stgraber> - Remove workaround for bug fixed in twisted.
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| 16:08 | - Ensure that epoptes-client is actually booted to LTSP before assuming it
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| 16:08 | is operating as a Fat client.
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| 16:08 | alkisg: ^ do you have bug reports for these two changes?
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| 16:09 | * alkisg needs to be afk for 10', brb, will check then | |
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| 16:40 | <alkisg1> Twisted bug report: LP #943598
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| 16:46 | <alkisg> I don't think we have a bug report for the other one, as it was a bit rare (standalone clients with the ltsp-client package installed)... stgraber should I file a bug report for it?
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| 16:50 | <stgraber> alkisg: yes, please
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| 16:50 | <alkisg> ok
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| 17:01 | <alkisg> stgraber: LP #1018498
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| 17:09 | <stgraber> alkisg: debdiff for precise: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1062875/
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| 17:09 | <stgraber> alkisg: one last thing before I can upload, each of the bugs need to have a [rational], [test case] and [regression potential] section added to their description
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| 17:09 | the first needs to explain what the bug is and what's the fix (briefly)
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> stgraber: each one?
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| 17:10 | ...
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| 17:10 | <stgraber> the second needs to be a step by step procedure to check that the bug is fixed
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| 17:10 | <stgraber> and the last needs to be a short explenation of possible regression that might happen if the fix explodes
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| 17:10 | * alkisg decided that he suddenly doesn't care about the SRU so much... people can use the epoptes PPA :D | |
| 17:10 | <alkisg> 30' fixing bugs, 3h supporting the SRU :D
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| 17:11 | I thought that it could all be done in a single SRU bug, the rationale etc
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| 17:11 | <stgraber> alkisg: it usually just takes a couple of minute to document that... we're enforcing it for SRUs as people were extremely bad at documenting their changes and we'd end up with regressions and packages sitting in -proposed for years (the oldest one being 400 days old or something like that)
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| 17:11 | <alkisg> Not for each one of the bugs...
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| 17:11 | <Phantomas> Scottish Rugby Union?
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> Hehe, close
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| 17:12 | Service Release Update or something
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| 17:12 | <knipwim> search retrieval via url?
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| 17:12 | ah
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| 17:12 | <stgraber> alkisg: I'll do it quickly for these 3, hopefully you'll see that it's not too painful :)
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> stgraber: e.g. for the bug where one needs to have ltsp-client installed in a standalone machine, I'm not sure that any user would ever see it...
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| 17:15 | vagrantc was testing ltsp-pnp, that's why he saw it
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| 17:15 | So confirming that the bug was solved would be hard for a test case
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> well, i confirmed that that fix resolved the issue
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> Sure, but ltsp-update-image -c / isn't even available in ubuntu 12.04
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| 17:16 | So you couldn't confirm it that easily on 12.04...
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| 17:16 | <vagrantc> oh, right... so you'd have to install it with a ppa
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| 17:16 | <alkisg> Or use a standalone client
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| 17:17 | And install ltsp-client on it just to confirm the bug
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| 17:17 | <vagrantc> that's reasonably simple instructions...
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| 17:17 | <alkisg> OK, but I'm not sure if it's worth all the trouble for a 1 line fix
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| 17:17 | I understand the reasoning, but...
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| 17:18 | Not that I have something better to propose
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| 17:23 | <stgraber> alkisg: paperwork done :)
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| 17:24 | alkisg: I'll very likely be the one doing the tests anyway so I also know how to test these bits without too much pain :)
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> stgraber: thanks, and sorry for my lack of patience with bureocracy... I know it's necessary but I absolutely hate it some times :)
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| 17:27 | <stgraber> alkisg: once you're used to what the SRU team wants, it's really not too much of a pain, and it forces you to read the diff once again :)
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| 17:28 | uploaded to -proposed
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| 17:33 | <alkisg> vagrantc: so, I'll be tagging epoptes, do you want me to do the -1 (debian package) too?
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| 17:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: go ahead and tag -1, i'll just upload what you've got.
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| 17:34 | <alkisg> Cool, ah, let me also do + test the ssvnc part that stgraber reported along with it - it'll take me some time, but I'll do it today
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| 17:35 | (it probably requires a bit of server-side code changes too)
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| 18:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: your name in the changelog or mine?
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| 18:15 | (don't know if it matters for the upload)
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| 18:16 | ..putting mine, if needed we can change it with bzr push --overwrite :P :D
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| 18:16 | Ah no I think I should put yours, it might need signing
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| 18:17 | Err no that wasn't a problem in previous versions. OK.
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| 18:18 | Pushed, testing...
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> alkisg: yours
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| 18:36 | <alkisg> vagrantc: done
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> alkisg: no tags?
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| 18:38 | <alkisg> vagrantc: sooorry I always forget bzr tags
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| 18:38 | Can I put them now?
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| 18:39 | ...uncommit, tag, push --overwrite :P
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| 18:39 | <vagrantc> no worries
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| 18:39 | can tag later and push
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| 18:39 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> alkisg: uploaded, tagged and pushed tags
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| 19:23 | <alkisg> vagrantc: ty... can I do something to help with ltsp?
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> epoptes, that is
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| 19:23 | <alkisg> I haven't used mkdst though yet
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> i can do some limited testing on my own
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| 19:23 | alkisg: i haven't been using mkdst lately either ...
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| 19:23 | <alkisg> We did muuch testing in the workshop
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| 19:24 | We mostly found Ubuntu-related problems though :P
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| 19:24 | <vagrantc> alkisg: it's a pretty small diff, i can just do what i did for epotpes
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| 19:33 | <Ghidorah> Hello everyone, I'm looking into kerberos authentication with Firefox (localapp) on LTSP. I'm running to a snag, I'm not sure how to provide Firefox access to the kerberos ticket
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| 19:33 | Has anyone attempted anything similar with LTSP?
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| 19:34 | <vagrantc> no experience with kerberos, but how would you normally get access to the ticket on a disked workstation?
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| 19:35 | <Ghidorah> vagrantc: The ubuntu workstation I'm testing with, is authenticating with AD and caches a user kerberos ticket. From there applications can use this ticket for authentication
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| 19:36 | <vagrantc> so where is it cached?
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| 19:37 | <Ghidorah> in the users homedir
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| 19:39 | <vagrantc> Ghidorah: you might have an easier time doing this with a fatclient ... then you can just configure the LTSP environment however you configured the server
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| 19:40 | <Ghidorah> I hadn't considered a fatclient
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| 19:40 | <vagrantc> it's sort of like running all apps as localapps
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| 19:41 | <Ghidorah> Please excuse my ignorance. Does it require a HD?
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| 19:41 | <vagrantc> although LTSP does some trickery you might have to disable at login (for both localapps and fatclients) ...
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| 19:42 | Ghidorah: no, it's still all network booted, just all of the applications running on the local hardware, like localapps
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| 19:42 | thin client = all applications running on server, local apps = most running on server, some running on thin client hardware, fat client = all applications running on thin client hardware
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| 19:43 | <Ghidorah> So is there a need for an application server? Is there a "remoteapp" feature, rather is there a need?
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| 19:43 | <vagrantc> although, for both localapps and fatclients, LTSP does some things to /etc/passwd and such that might make proper network authentication difficult
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| 19:43 | Ghidorah: yes, there's also remoteapps ... i.e. most applications running on thin client hardware, some applications running on server
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| 19:44 | with fatclients, there's not need for an application server really, at that point it's just a file server.
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| 19:46 | essentially, LDM uses ssh to transfer username and group info over to the client, and set up the homedir ... not sure if that would mess with AD/kerberos at all.
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| 19:47 | basically, we invented localapps/fatclients to work around having to set up AD/LDAP/Kerberos
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| 19:48 | <Ghidorah> so the root server would authenticate the user and then setup the fatclient?
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| 19:48 | <vagrantc> sort of ... depends on what you mean
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| 19:49 | <vagrantc> basically, the root server handles all the network boot, you get to a login screen, and it logs into the server, and then LDM/LTSP set up the fatclient things username/groups, homedir, starting the initial session, etc.
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| 19:50 | the server essentially serves up the root filesystem and homedir and authentication mechanism, and everything else is running on the thin client
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| 19:51 | <Ghidorah> I'm assuming there is no need for LTSP-Cluster with fatclients then?
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| 19:52 | <vagrantc> not sure
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| 19:52 | haven't worked with LTSP-cluster at all
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| 19:52 | <Ghidorah> I really like its web interface and logging
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| 19:53 | prior to LTSP-Cluster I was unsure of how to audit who was logging into which terminal
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| 20:11 | <alkisg> Ghidorah: `last` and `lastlog` tell you about login history
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| 20:13 | <Ghidorah> alkisg: thanks!
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| 20:14 | <Pecker> ok question
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| 20:15 | i set up ltsp on exisiting install..got dhcp wprkong, but when clients boot they cant login... they get 'no response from server' message. using ubuntu 10.04
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> !ltsp-update-sshkeys
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| 20:15 | <ltsp> alkisg: ltsp-update-sshkeys: If you changed your server IP, you need to run ltsp-update-sshkeys, and if you're using NBD (Ubuntu) you also need ltsp-update-image afterwards
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| 20:21 | <Pecker> aha
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| 20:21 | i feel liek an idiot now..thanks
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| 20:27 | <vagrantc> newer versions of LTSP aren't so annoying about IP addresses.
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| 20:28 | it was a stupid bug
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| 21:00 | <alkisg> knipwim: if one writes in /run (or in /var, whichever works) from the initramfs in gentoo, does it then get transferred to the real system?
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| 22:38 | <vagrantc> wrong date in changelog ... woops.
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| 23:02 | <vagrantc> and forgot to inclue an example lts.conf ...
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| 23:04 | an excuse to re-upload!
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