IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 19 April 2008 (all times are UTC)

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00:16	<vagrantc> ogra: not having as good luck with the localdev/ldm_directx patches
00:17	ogra: caused a regression leaving the /tmp/ mount
00:17	ogra: and unmounting didn't seem to work
00:18	ogra: when not using ldm_directx
00:23	<johnny> dberkholz, i don't know what i did wrong (or if i did) but genkernel generated initramfs are giving me trouble now
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00:23	<dberkholz> hm
00:24	what kind of trouble?
00:24	<johnny> lemme try with the ~arch version
00:24	<dberkholz> that would be a good idea
00:24	<johnny> i think i was forcing the arch version before.. but then i took it out, cuz i thought it was unnecessary
00:24	<dberkholz> that's what releng people are using to build the release
00:24	by arch, do you mean ~arch?
00:25	<johnny> yes.. oops
00:25	<dberkholz> those are quite different terms, the former would mean stable if it was commonly used
00:25	<johnny> i know this.. that was accidental :)
00:25	<dberkholz> ok
00:26	i just spent about 20 minutes trying to explain this to some other people
00:26	<johnny> i've been here long enough to know that
00:26	you can't survive very long if you don't.
00:27	it still doesn't quite do enough for us, even if we just want to use tmpfs bindmounting and nfs
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00:27	<johnny> the modules_load file is woefully inadequate.. lots of scsi drivers.. only 2 network drivers..
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00:31	<dberkholz> johnny: does the --all-initrd-modules argument help at all, or does it just copy without loading?
00:31	<johnny> it would be the next problem after this to solve..
00:32	<dberkholz> johnny: other ideas are to try including a custom modules_load with --initramfs-overlay, or to create an additional architecture type for ltsp archs
00:32	<johnny> yes.. that is one option
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00:33	<johnny> just have to make it..
00:33	<dberkholz> i suppose what we'd like is a way to overlay our own files on top of their arch, rather than really create a new arch
00:34	wonder out of busy-config config.sh kernel-config-2.6 modules_load nb-busybox.cf, how many would change
00:39	<johnny> dberkholz, i think i just had to step away from doing ltsp stuff for a lil while
00:39	the problems seem much simpler now
00:40	<dberkholz> good to hear
00:42	<johnny> hopefully after 2008.0 comes out, we can get busybox updatedd in genkernel.. that'd solve a bit of the configuration issues
00:43	<dberkholz> johnny: feel free to make local mods to genkernel, stick 'em somewhere, and make an ebuild point at it
00:43	<johnny> then we can stop putting the ip the the kernel commandline in the pxelinux file
00:44	atm you have to do nfsroot=yourappserver:/path/to/chroot
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00:45	<dberkholz> append initrd=pxe/x86/initramfs ramdisk=8192 ip=dhcp root=nfs:192.168.1.106:/opt/ltsp/i386;tmpfs
00:45	i suspect that's my old genkernel-3 line
00:45	or maybe it's genkernel-4 before i fixed it to not suck
00:46	the semicolon makes me think gk4
00:46	<johnny> yes, that is gk4
00:46	i'm saying that we dont need to use the ip there
00:46	<dberkholz> oh absolutely, if udhcpc works
00:46	<johnny> no.. we still do :)
00:47	until we use busybox 1.9
00:47	<dberkholz> this was my new and improved line (still before root-path worked): append initrd=pxe/x86/initramfs ramdisk=8192 ip=dhcp root=nfs;tmpfs
00:47	<johnny> see.. that's what we want :)
00:47	genkernel4 had busybox 1.9 :)
00:49	<dberkholz> i think i was still updating a ton of crap in my live gk4 ebuild
00:51	<johnny> hmm.. syntax error in /etc/lts.conf line2
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02:41	<johnny> dberkholz, this is what you told me to try right?
02:41	/usr/lib/x11/xdm/Xsession
02:41	ooh..
02:42	<dberkholz> with a capital X in X11
02:43	<johnny> oh..
02:43	that does mean we have to merge xdm tho
02:46	ok.. here goes
02:46	ok.. now i just get a twm session
02:46	so.. need something else
02:46	<dberkholz> for whatever reason, upstream has xdm supply the Xsession script instead of xinit
02:47	<johnny> any ideas? since that doesn't work?
02:47	<dberkholz> johnny: it really should work.
02:48	assuming you're passing an argument as a session that actually exists in /etc/X11/Sessions/ or as an executable file
02:48	Xsession sets the variable XSESSION, which is used by /etc/X11/chooser.sh
02:49	<johnny> got it..
02:49	i had just migrated to baselayout
02:49	err openrc*
02:50	forgot to set it on my server
02:50	<dberkholz> forgot to set what?
02:50	<johnny> XSESSION="Gnome"
02:50	<dberkholz> this should require that variable to be preset to work
02:50	<johnny> in /etc/env.d/99xsession on my server
02:50	<dberkholz> it should just require that the session name get passed to the Xsession script
02:51	i'm sorry, "this _shouldn't_ require that variable to be preset to work"
02:51	<johnny> it's gotta default to something
02:52	gnome-session is in the list tho
02:52	on ldm
02:53	but this is good enough for now.. i need to sleep .. almost 4am
02:53	<dberkholz> bah. defaults.
02:53	<johnny> i set this on my server, gdm just happened to choose Gnome, ldm doesn't pass the type of session by default
02:54	my server being my normal desktop, i just didn't fix up the env.d file after upgrading to openrc there
02:55	so tomorrow i'll have one of these fine gentlemen commit that, and we can distribute and empty lts.conf file
02:55	an*
02:55	so.. just need to work out the initramfs issue, and what happens with the pxe directory, then we might have something to open to wider testing
02:56	<dberkholz> good deal
02:56	<johnny> i'd apprecaite if we could get some tarballs hosted somewhere official
02:56	or we could just use fedora's
02:56	<dberkholz> tarballs for what, again?
02:56	ltsp packages?
02:56	<johnny> yes
02:56	<dberkholz> yeah, we'll get that going.
02:57	we've talked about it a few times now
02:57	<johnny> relying on ubuntu's like before is impossible
02:57	<dberkholz> we all agree that releases are a good thing
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02:58	<dberkholz> some of us think they should be called something besides releases (Despite being releases) for various reasons, but that's not something that matters at all
02:58	<johnny> they just have to be tarballs that match the release.conf
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03:00	<johnny> i also need to get my changes added to ltsp-trunk, i just wanna do a few more smoketests first
03:00	i'll do another when i go to work at our store..
03:01	make sure the chroot succeeds from start to finish with trivial or no modifications
03:02	well, it's bed time for now, cya
03:02	<dberkholz> night
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05:19	<DawnLight> how can i specify kernel parameters for clients?
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09:13	<Nubae> ogra: if you are there, what was the url for the RC page
09:14	ah found it
09:15	ok... first... when I hit f4 I get oem install as the last option not LTSP install
09:15	in fact I dont get LTSP install at all
09:19	I've double checked and it is the CD built on 17/4/08 so its the right onw... the ltsp option is not in there
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09:25	<laga> Nubae: you using the normal ubuntu install?
09:26	Nubae: or the alternate disk?
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09:37	<Nubae> ogra: are u there?
09:42	<ogra> Nubae, well, its definately on the alternate disk, i promise :)
09:42	<Nubae> shit... did I download the desktop cd
09:43	or normal server cd
09:43	<ogra> do you have two or four entries in the modes menu ?
09:44	desktop only has two afaik
09:44	<Nubae> maybe there should be a direct link to the alternate cd here - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall
09:44	4
09:44	so must have been server, and I thought that was the right onw
09:44	<ogra> nope
09:44	thats why it says "alternate CD" everywhere :)
09:44	<Nubae> I no it says it clearly in the instructions
09:45	but I was in a rush and downloaded normal server cd without looking
09:45	anyway, without redownloading, should I just install normal ubuntu
09:46	<ogra> setting a fixed link means that it will need to be updated for 8.04.1 .2 .3 etc
09:46	<Nubae> that would have suited me fine ;-)
09:46	<ogra> i'll make "alternate CD" bold in the page
09:46	<Nubae> but I know what you mean yea
09:47	so, shoudl I redownload?
09:47	i was so concentrated on the 64 bit part, the alternate bit escaped me
09:48	<ogra> ah, well, for 64bit you should raher use the manual method anyway
09:48	the package selection on the 64bit cd still doesnt contain ay 32bit packages .... so it will build an amd64 chroot out of the box
09:49	<Nubae> yeah its been like that from day 1
09:49	<ogra> intrepid will get an option if network is detected to buiod a 32bit client from the network archive during install
09:50	<Nubae> downloading a lot faster today than yesterday in any case
09:50	<ogra> indeed
09:50	<Nubae> so install from the regular ubuntu server cd should not cause issues
09:51	<ogra> RC and release day are always hard for the servers
09:51	<Nubae> wont be able to beta test u're instructions though
09:51	<ogra> err
09:51	server doesnt gain you anything
09:51	you need a desktop
09:51	<Nubae> ah sorry, I have desktop
09:51	<ogra> -alternate or -desktop
09:52	<Nubae> ubuntu-8.04-RC-desktop
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09:52	<ogra> thats fine
09:52	<Nubae> amd64
09:52	ok
09:53	gonna try writing again with brasero, the regular cd hangs
09:53	at startup
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09:55	<Nubae> hope u didn't get too much mail yesterday/today :-)
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09:57	<Nubae> yesterday I asked, but people were quite busy... are there any recommendations for actual thin terminal clients ( a website url preferably)
10:03	<Q-FUNK> ogra: is there any way to prevent invoke-rc.d from running inside the chroot, when upgrading packages?
10:04	<Nubae> q funk, enable proc and sys
10:04	then it wont matter
10:04	damn... desktop cd hangs
10:07	cd hangs on all types of startups, I'll wait for that actual alternate cd to download
10:07	maybe the iso was downloaded badly
10:08	<laga> verify the md5sum
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10:17	<Nubae> where are the 8.04 hashes?
10:18	<laga> on the mirrors
10:20	<Nubae> ok mdsum is correct
10:21	turn off apic and lapic?
10:23	even clicking on check cd for defects freezes the system
10:27	well 40 minutes to wait to download alernate, but will the same thing happen
10:29	<vagrantc> Q-FUNK: LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false chroot /path/to/your/ltsp/chroot
10:29	Q-FUNK: or just export LTSP_HANDLE_DAEMONS=false
10:30	Q-FUNK: that'll trigger the policy wrapper so invoke-rc.d won't do anything
10:30	<Q-FUNK> ah ok
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10:35	<Nubae> weird, written 2 cds, both cause the computer to freeze then eject the disc saying error reading disk
10:36	<StevenR_> tested the drive with a known-good cd?
10:45	<Nubae> yes
10:45	20 minutes till alternate downloads, just gonna wait
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10:46	<Nubae> weird, one cd hangs on a screen with a white blinking -
10:46	the other extracted the cd after some time saying there was an error with it
10:46	burnt one with brasero, one with what comes standard
10:53	<vagrantc> ogra: did you say you could confirm the regression regarding the ltspfs /tmp/.USER-ltspfs/DEVICE issue?
10:56	<Nubae> 5 dias eh... cool
10:56	I wonder, has ubuntustudio changed much at all
11:02	weird, been testing mandriva, and it comes with the mic settings to full as standard, so you can hear yourself talk...
11:02	lol
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11:13	<Nubae> ok, I have the alternate Cd downloaded now, can I follow the same instructions even if its 64bit?
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11:13	<laga> Nubae: if your clients are 64bit
11:13	<Nubae> they're note
11:13	not
11:14	<laga> 16:45 < ogra> ah, well, for 64bit you should raher use the manual method anyway
11:14	16:46 < ogra> the package selection on the 64bit cd still doesnt contain ay 32bit packages .... so it will build an amd64 chroot out of the box
11:14	<Nubae> who would have 64 bit thin clients
11:15	right, but I can build another chroot after without problems right?
11:15	using the --arch flag
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11:15	<laga> afterwards, yes
11:15	<Nubae> k, but forced to install 64 bit chroot, get it
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11:19	<Nubae> ASUS, a leading company in the new digital era, today announced the release of a comprehensive software developer's kit (SDK) for the ASUS Eee PC. The new SDK enables third-party developers to easily enhance and extend the popular, mobile, open source platform for educational, telecommunications, and many other uses. The Eee PC SDK provides a complete development platform, including an Eee PC-compatible Open Circulation Edition of the X
11:19	a Qt4 toolkit, a developer's guide, sample applications, and a multilingual VMware testing and debugging environment." - they really are beating classmate and xo to the punch
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11:30	<Nubae> http://www.everex.com/products/cloudbook/cloudbook.htm - that looks interestig
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11:33	<Nubae> jeez, the alternate cd hangs too..
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11:38	<vagrantc> warren: what's the deal with: [ -f /selinux/enforce ] && /sbin/restorecon -R $TFTPDIR &> /dev/null
11:38	warren: can we just use > /dev/null ?
11:39	<warren> vagrantc: let me test that
11:39	vagrantc: yeah, i guess so, go ahead and change it.
11:39	<vagrantc> warren: cool.
11:46	<johnny> ok.. guys
11:46	here's the magic line
11:46	/usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession
11:46	commit that to ldm for me?
11:47	<vagrantc> johnny: does it accept arguments?
11:47	<johnny> sorry for taking so long.. i had some serious issues with my routing
11:47	you mean the ones in the dropdown ?
11:47	gnome-session and ll?
11:47	<vagrantc> johnny: i.e. /usr/lib/X11/xdm/Xsession FOO ... starts the FOO window manager
11:48	<johnny> what sets the default ?
11:48	<vagrantc> i don't know how gentoo works.
11:48	<johnny> on a normal desktop
11:48	<vagrantc> define normal
11:48	<Nubae> argh... is there some easy way for me to make an iso onto a usb stick instead?
11:48	<johnny> the default is an env var called XSESSION
11:48	<vagrantc> johnny: i can explain the behavior on debian and ubuntu systems, but every distro appears to implement this stuff differently.
11:48	<johnny> vagrantc, the one you're on right now :)
11:49	prolly
11:49	<vagrantc> hopefully we can fix all the distros. :)
11:49	exactly what goes on behind the scenes i don't care about.
11:49	<Nubae> all the distros... lol
11:50	<vagrantc> but i would like to see all supported Xsession's handling two behaviors: no argument means set some reasonable default for your distro, and the first argument is which session to run.
11:50	that's how debian works
11:50	and it seems reasonable.
11:51	at the moment, though, LDM actually doesn't use Xsession when you've manually selected a session
11:51	<johnny> ok.. so i'll test to make sure the dropdown works
11:52	<vagrantc> if you use the dropdown, it will skip Xsession entirely.
11:52	<johnny> so how can i test whether it takes an argument that actually works? :)
11:52	<vagrantc> read the code?
11:53	i would think it should be near the top of the code...
11:53	johnny: i guess it's not really important at the moment, since not all distros support it. but i would like to be able to support it in the future.
11:54	<johnny> ok.. i selected failsafe xterm, while the default is Gnome
11:54	and it worked
11:54	<vagrantc> maybe we can make it configurable ... but then it will break cross-distro logins.
11:54	<johnny> so yes.. it worked
11:55	<vagrantc> it worked, as in your system allows you to run arbitrary commands... that does nothing to demonstrate weather your Xsession supports passing an argument.
11:58	johnny: like i said, don't worry about it now. we'll fix it when we get to it.
11:58	<johnny> i was told that it did
11:58	<vagrantc> it did what?
11:58	<johnny> supports passing an argument
11:59	<vagrantc> ok, great :)
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12:15	<Nubae> damn cdrom drive, changed it now it works great
12:15	I thought HP was supposed to be good stuff
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12:17	<Nubae> hp proliant dl... both the network ports have broken and now the cdrom drive
12:17	I hightly dis-recommend that piece of machinery
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12:24	Morning everyone
12:26	I just bought an hp 2207h widescreen lcd and am trying to get a client to display proberly in k12ltsp5
12:26	<johnny> think you can commit that for me guys?
12:27	The desktop fills the display but images are stretched a bit too wide... ;-(
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12:31	<johnny> vagrantc, lemme know when you do
12:32	i'm pretty close to an OOTB install
12:32	just need to setup the tftp server, and copy the initramfs and kernel to the chroot now
12:32	err out of the chroot now
12:32	the lcd says it is at 1680x1050 but images are too wide
12:32	<johnny> that's temporary for the copying tho
12:39	<Q-FUNK> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13579502/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.xorg-server_2%3A1.4.1~git20080131-1ubuntu10_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
12:39	sigh
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12:51	<vagrantc> johnny: do what?
12:53	<johnny> commit that line
12:53	for the xsession
12:53	<vagrantc> ah.
12:57	<Nubae> is it normal that building thin client sits at 50% for a very long time?
12:57	<laga> Nubae: yes
12:57	Nubae: alt+f4 to see progress
12:58	<Nubae> just started compressing image so ok now
12:59	<laga> it's amazingly fast to build the image from disk
13:00	<Nubae> well now comes all the hard part, migrating from gutsy
13:03	<vagrantc> johnny: pushing now...
13:04	<johnny> i'm going to do a smoketest tonight when i head to work
13:04	then maybe i might have something to recommend for merging
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13:11	<johnny> testing now
13:12	so, is anybody hosting tarballs that match the release.conf versions?
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13:13	<johnny> vagrantc, line 464 is that correct?
13:14	i think you need to remove it
13:14	<vagrantc> johnny: of?
13:14	<johnny> ldm.c
13:14	here's the error
13:14	ldm.c:461: error: expected expression before ‘else’
13:14	<vagrantc> well, i think i need to add another
13:15	<johnny> oh yeah
13:15	need to add another } :)
13:15	<vagrantc> can you add another at after the debian segment ... test it, and i'll commit
13:16	johnny: by test, i mean just see if you get the compile error.
13:18	<johnny> yes
13:18	it built
13:19	<vagrantc> pushing...
13:23	<johnny> build complete, now testing :)
13:23	if this works, i dont' have to distribute an /etc/lts.conf with any overrides that might get accidentally taken out by the user
13:24	yay
13:40	is it me or is getltscfg too strict?
13:40	syntax error in /etc/lts.conf, line 3
13:40	there's nothing on that line :)
13:40	<laga> line 2 might be faulty?
13:40	<johnny> line two is [default]
13:41	<laga> maybe it's expecting something? do the following lines have content?
13:41	<johnny> there are no following lines?
13:41	<laga> i wonder if just having
13:41	[default]
13:41	<johnny> ubuntu distributes that way iirc
13:41	<laga> with not content for that section is valid
13:41	oh?
13:41	<johnny> pretty sure it has a bunch of commented lines
13:41	and then [default]
13:42	oh.. it's just comments
13:43	i coulda swore i tried that, which is why i added [default] in the first place :(
13:43	ok.. here goes..
13:43	i think it should allow [default] tho
13:43	that way users dont' have to remember to add it
13:44	and wonder why they get syntax errors
13:44	<Nubae> I've got my new install up now, but it jumps to busybox with mount: Mounting /rofs failed:infalid argument
13:44	I've been through this issue before
13:45	<laga> is inetd.conf ok?
13:45	<vagrantc> johnny: if you have an lts.conf, you need something in there.
13:46	johnny: or no default entry
13:46	<Nubae> looks correct, this is off a totally fresh install
13:46	with no messing around at all
13:46	it was i386 I downloaded in the end, so built the ltsp chroot and everything
13:46	but then getting this error
13:47	<laga> Nubae: dhpcd.conf correct?
13:48	<Nubae> considering its pointing to the same place as always, I guess so
13:49	<laga> Nubae: /opt/ltsp/images/i386.img existing?
13:49	<Nubae> anywayes
13:50	sorrry was supposed to be just yes
13:50	<johnny> yay.. i rock :)
13:54	<Nubae> I've tried rebuilding the image, maybe that will work?
13:55	nope didn't help
13:55	this is totally strange, a fresh i386 install, and I get that
13:56	Its looking for rootserver 192.168.1.1, what is that?
13:56	<laga> Nubae: what's in the pxelinux config?
13:57	<Nubae> just standard DEFAULT vmlinuz to initrd=initrd.img
13:57	<laga> odd
13:57	<Nubae> i took out quiet and splash to see what was happening
14:00	any more ideas?
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14:14	<Furlow> hi would anyone know why my client says its trying to boot from /etc/pxelinux.cfg.<some code here> and then each time it takes when leter off the end and entually boots from default
14:15	also my client is booting but the keyboard is all messed up although I have the right key config
14:15	<Q-FUNK> ogra: does LTSP have a list of known X drivers it uses to parse whta X configure returns? could it be that -geode isn't there but -amd is?
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16:03	<johnny> oops.. i'm a bad person :(
16:03	i forgot to commit my updated quickstart file since ages
16:04	smoke testing will begin in t minus 1 hour :)
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18:27	<vagrantc> hrm.
18:36	yay!
18:37	figured out the double-mount problem.
18:37	ldm's rc.d handling just looks at the beginning of the filename, and doesn't exclude things like .old and such.
18:37	so i had multiple scripts in the directory.
18:37	and so it was getting mounted multiple times ...
18:44	<warren> a bunch of .d scripts either have to enforce
18:44	1) never write .old or .rpmnew or .rpmwhatever files on version upgrades
18:44	(always overwrite)
18:44	2) or have an exclusion list of suffixes
18:44	3) or only operate on files that end in a certain fixed suffix
18:45	we had to patch upstart to ignore certain filenames in /etc/event.d
18:45	for example
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19:05	<vagrantc> debian uses run-parts to handle most of that stuff
19:06	we could probably move run_parts_list into ltsp-common-functions and use that.
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19:21	<Q-FUNK> hm
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19:50	<vagrantc> warren: i mentioned all this at one point.
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19:55	<Q-FUNK> am I the only one whose chroot no longer works on Hardy since a couple of days?
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21:09	<warren> vagrantc_: I asked if we could switch to debian's run-parts, I was told no.
21:19	<vagrantc_> warren: yeah, that's why we have the run_parts_list function
21:20	warren: it basically can do the same thing.
21:30	warren, ogra, dberkholz, johnny, cyberorg, gvy: preparing to tag ltspfs soonish.
21:31	<warren> vagrantc_: I'll take a quick look to be sure there's nothing I had queued
21:32	vagrantc_: that's without the udev based thing right?
21:35	vagrantc_: ok, looks OK
21:35	vagrantc_: I'm assuming ogra's changes are working fine for you?
21:40	<vagrantc_> warren: yes, they're working fine. i had some troubles at first, but it was because of mistakes i had made.
21:41	but yes, i had brought up a while ago using something to ensure backup files or whatever, aren't executed.
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23:26	<vagrantc_> tagged and pushed ltspfs-trunk
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