IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 August 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:37 | <alkisg> stgraber: italc-launcher, when run from the LTSP server, is autodetecting each client twice
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| 01:37 | I get entries for the same host for both eth0 and eth1 (and eth2 for 3 nic servers). Only one of them should be kept...
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| 01:38 | <alkisg> avahi-publish publishes them to all available nics... :-/
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| 01:42 | <alkisg> stgraber: One way to fix it could be: param[1] is the nic (eth0, eth1...). For the first client that is autodetected, set listen_nic=param[1]. For all the other clients, if param[1] != listen_nic, ignore them.
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| 02:02 | <alkisg> stgraber, patched italc-launcher: http://pastebin.com/f664176fd
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| 05:38 | <nightlight> hi folks, i got a question
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| 05:40 | <nightlight> i have set up a thin client environment, but when i try to shutdown clients, they are shutting down the server as well, any ideas ?
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| 05:41 | <joshiggins_> nightlight: which ubuntu version are you using?
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| 05:42 | <nightlight> i am not using ubuntu, i am using a local distro
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| 05:42 | i have built my own rootfs
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| 05:42 | and then booted them
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| 05:42 | they are working
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| 05:42 | but the problem is shutting down
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| 05:42 | <joshiggins_> nightlight:So you're not using LTSP-5?
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| 05:43 | <nightlight> no i am not
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| 05:43 | <ogra> doesnt sound like ltsp at all
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| 05:43 | how do you expect us to help ?
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| 05:43 | <joshiggins_> No you're right, but I did have this problem a while back
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| 05:43 | <nightlight> i thought you could give any idea where to start
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| 05:43 | <ogra> depends what exactly you have built there :)
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| 05:44 | and how you run it
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| 05:44 | <nightlight> i have built kernel 2.6.30.4-125
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| 05:44 | <ogra> if such a thing like shutting down the server happens in ltsp thats usually a bug in the desktop
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| 05:44 | <joshiggins_> When mine was doing this I ended up only allowing users to log off, and used the shutdown button from the login screen
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| 05:45 | <ogra> right, as i said, usually a desktop bug that you can work around by using LDMs shutdown and disable the desktops shutdown
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| 05:46 | <joshiggins_> I think the ltsp nightlight is using uses GDM and Xdmcp
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| 05:46 | nightlight: ltsp-4?
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| 05:46 | <nightlight> i have heard an idea like setting up sth in the rootfs/etc/ but dont know exactly what to do, it is sth like allowing clients to shut down server
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| 05:47 | <ogra> well, in ltsp clients cant shut down the server at all ... the desktop session tools can though
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| 05:48 | if you use something evil like xdmcp it can well be that the display manager has a shutdown option that applies to the server
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| 05:48 | so configure your display manager properly if thats the case
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| 05:49 | <nightlight> yes, in my conf file xdmcp is enabled
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| 05:49 | <ogra> ltsp didnt use anything like xdmcp since 5 years ... way to insecure
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| 05:49 | <joshiggins_> Are many people still using older ltsp's?
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| 05:49 | <ogra> some do but given there is no support or development for it it will die over time
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| 05:50 | <nightlight> why is that, the reason not to use the xdmcp ?
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| 05:50 | <ogra> the kernels, xorg etc are massively outdated
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| 05:50 | nightlight, you can extract screenshots from the network packets ... do keylogging from network data etc ...
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| 05:51 | there is zero privacy with xdmcp
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| 05:51 | every keystroke goes publically through the network in clear text
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| 05:51 | fun with passwords :)
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| 05:52 | <nightlight> i see, i am not using the thin client env right now, just a development env. but i am glad to know about xdmcp,
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| 05:53 | what is ltsp-5 using?
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| 05:53 | <ogra> LDM
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| 05:53 | its own display manager
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| 05:53 | <nightlight> ok, thx a lot
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| 05:54 | helped me too many
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| 05:54 | <ogra> passwords are always encrypted with it ... for the data stream you have the choice if you want it encrypted or not (i.e. if you have not so powerful client CPUs)
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| 05:56 | <nightlight> i have an idea like , shutting down all clients at a certain time,think like in the library i gonna close all the clients with just one command. how to do that ?
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| 06:49 | <zamba> i'm running a thin client through a kvm switch.. problem with that is that the monitor isn't detected properly, so my resolution is stuck at 800x600.. is there a way to either permanently fix it or hack it after the client is up and running?
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| 06:53 | <joshiggins_> zamba: not sure its possible, i've tried everything to get 1680x1050 through my switch, modelines, drivers, different cards,
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| 06:53 | i suppose you could try a modeline generator
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| 06:54 | <zamba> but what if you connect the monitor directly to the pc just to get the detection and then move back to the kvm switch?
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| 06:54 | wouldn't that be possible?
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| 06:54 | <joshiggins_> should be, if the switch supports the resolution that you want
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| 06:55 | i think the problem lies with the switch not passing your monitor's ddc info to the pc
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| 06:55 | <ogra> you can either use horizontal and vertical refresh rates hardcoded in lts.conf for that client, or live with 800x600 login screen in case you use gnome and just set a higher res in the desktop
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| 06:56 | (which should just use xrandr after login)
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| 06:56 | <joshiggins_> running xrandr in the terminal should show all the supported resolutions...;.
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| 06:57 | <ogra> right
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| 06:59 | <zamba> yeah, that did the trick
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| 07:00 | starting with the monitor connected directly to the computer
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| 07:00 | and then switching back to the kvm
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| 07:01 | <ogra> indeed, but is that feasable ?
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| 08:06 | <rm-rf> how do i "restart" ltsp so that i can pxe boot my thin clients from the image on the server?
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| 08:07 | i'm using ubuntu with ltsp, and i had to stop the nbd-server process to relocate my files
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| 08:07 | now i'm not sure how to get nbd-server started again since it complains about not having a config file
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| 08:08 | <ogra> nbd-server never runs
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| 08:09 | nbd is served by inetd
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| 08:09 | restart openbds-inetd
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| 08:09 | *openbsd
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| 08:13 | <rm-rf> thanks
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| 08:13 | also, is there a central place that ltsp logs to?
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| 08:13 | <ogra> not by default
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| 08:13 | <rm-rf> i'm having some wierdness with my clients connecting, but i'm not sure where i would get the logs to see what is going on
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| 08:14 | some users are able to login ok on the thin client, while others put their information in, and get kicked right back out to the login screen
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| 08:14 | have you seen that before?
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| 08:14 | <ogra> check their ~/.xsession-errors file on the server
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| 08:15 | and also /var/log/auth.log
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| 08:16 | <rm-rf> .xsession-errors is actually empty for the user that i just tried to login with
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| 08:16 | there are gtk errors in /var/log/auth.log
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| 08:16 | i'll pastebin them
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| 08:16 | <ogra> o look at auth.log
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| 08:19 | <rm-rf> http://pastebin.com/d375709a7
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| 08:19 | that's an error i was getting yesterday
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| 08:23 | <ogra> try removing the indicator applet for a test
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| 08:24 | <rm-rf> remove it from the ltsp config?
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| 08:24 | <ogra> no apt-get remove
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| 08:24 | <rm-rf> ah
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| 08:24 | <ogra> you can install it later again
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| 08:24 | <rm-rf> ok
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| 08:38 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:39 | <alkisg1> Good afternoon
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| 08:40 | Is there any project similar to nubae's fat clients (=offering remote hard disk only, shared /home, and 1 place for updates), but not based on ltsp?
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| 08:50 | <sbalneav> I really need to put the screws to nebae to get him to put his script upstream.
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| 08:50 | <alkisg> Why didn't he so far? Not good enough code quality, or not enough time? :)
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| 08:58 | <Blinny> Any gotchyas to be aware of when running wine off an Ubuntu 8.04 LTSP server?
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> alkisg: Certainly can't be code quality: We accept just about anything. Hell, even *my* code :)
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| 09:01 | <alkisg> Blinny: some wine apps refresh the screen all the time, which can be a network bottleneck
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| 09:01 | sbalneav: heh... your code is mature like old wine :D
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| 09:02 | <ogra> sbalneav, i'd strongly oppose code that fiddles with certain system defaults i.e. /etc/sudores
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| 09:02 | *sudoers
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| 09:03 | or doesnt properly handle conffiles
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| 09:03 | if its *only code* like in ltsp scripts that dont tweak the system, anything goes indeed :)
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| 09:03 | <Blinny> alkisg: Right on. Thank you.
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| 09:05 | <alkisg> Blinny: I also had to run some apps with `nice`, because the used 100% cpu, so I could only use them for 2 users without `nice`. After putting `nice`, I could use them for ~10 users.
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| 09:05 | *they
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| 09:06 | <profesor> hello
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| 09:06 | I have a problem running gcompris as a localapp in my ltsp setup.
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| 09:06 | <Blinny> OK. I have one app in particular I'm looking at and it is a crappy VB accounting program. I hope it won't do much screen drawing.
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| 09:06 | Thank you alkisg.
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| 09:07 | <alkisg> You're welcome.
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| 09:07 | <profesor> it installs fine but it closes after like 10 seconds
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| 09:08 | <profesor> anyone?
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> profesor: apps that depend on gconf don't run well as localapps
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| 09:09 | <profesor> alkisg, really
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> At least that's what I heard here.
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| 09:09 | dbus-related problems or something
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| 09:09 | <profesor> theres no work around for that?
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| 09:09 | <ogra> since when did gcompris start to use gconf ?
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| 09:10 | <ltsppbot> "alkisg" pasted "apt-get install gcompris" (42 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/482
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> Depends: gcompris-data (= 8.4.4-1.1ubuntu4), libatk1.0-0 (>= 1.20.0), libc6 (>= 2.4), libcairo2 (>= 1.2.4), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.4.0), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libgstreamer0.10-0 (>= 0.10.0), libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.16.0), libpango1.0-0 (>= 1.22.0), libpython2.6 (>= 2.6), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.6.10), libx11-6, libxml2 (>= 2.6.27), libxxf86vm1, python (>= 2.5) | python-pysqlite2, python-gtk2, gstreamer0.10-audiosink, gstreamer0.10-plugins-base
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| 09:13 | <ogra> no gconf :)
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| 09:13 | <profesor> ogra, so what could be the problem?
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| 09:14 | <ogra> no idea
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| 09:14 | <alkisg> Well, apt-get wants to install gconf, so one of the dependencies also depends on gconf
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| 09:14 | "the following packages will be installed"...gconf2 gconf2-common
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| 09:14 | <profesor> Im running a lab of 22 terminals and gcompris is pretty hard on my server
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| 09:15 | im running openoffice,tuxpaint and scribus locally with no problems.
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| 09:18 | <sbalneav> profesor: I don't think anyone here has tested gcompris locally, so you'll probably have to do some digging yourself.
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| 09:18 | <profesor> sbalneav, I am digging :D thats why im here :-)
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| 09:20 | <alkisg> profesor, have you tried with LDM_DIRECTX=true? Better performance at the cost of lower security.
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| 09:21 | <profesor> alkisg, where do I set that? and what kind of performance should I expect?
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| 09:21 | <alkisg> I haven't tried gcompris much; my students are older than that. You put LDM_DIRECTX=true in lts.conf. Let me link you to the docs...
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| 09:22 | <profesor> alkisg, its weird that just by having gcompris open my network speed stays lock at 7.5MB/s and thats with students not using it at the time
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| 09:23 | <alkisg> profesor: gcompris-data gcompris-sound-en gconf2 gconf2-common
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| 09:23 | AH
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| 09:23 | damn chromium
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| 09:23 | I meant http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2699167
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| 09:24 | profesor: it's possible that gcompris draws some part of it constantly, and causes network usage... but I'm just speculating, didn't use it much.
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| 09:24 | Or it may be playing some sound
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| 09:29 | <ogra> it constantly plays some midi bg music usually
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| 09:29 | but that shouldnt even go to the network by default
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| 09:30 | <alkisg> You mean as a localapp? I don't think the network bandwidth profesor said was about the localapp version... (being that it's only open for 10 secs...)
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| 09:31 | <profesor> alkisg, when running from server
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| 09:31 | <alkisg> Right.
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| 09:32 | <profesor> i turned off the music and its running faster
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| 09:32 | thanks guys for pointing that out
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| 09:32 | i didnt notice because i had no speakers on the pcs
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| 09:32 | hahaha
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| 09:34 | irule has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:36 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 09:36 | profesor: do try with LDM_DIRECTX=True in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf ...
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| 09:39 | artista has quit IRC | |
| 09:39 | <profesor> thanks alkisg will try it in the next class change
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| 09:39 | artista has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:40 | <profesor> be back later.
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| 09:40 | thanks for your help. you guys rock.
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| 09:40 | profesor has quit IRC | |
| 09:44 | tstafford_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:55 | <Blinny> I hate to ask this seemingly dumb question.. but how do I edit the Applications menu so that it applies to all users?
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| 09:56 | joachim has joined #ltsp | |
| 09:56 | <joachim> hi
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| 09:56 | <tstafford_> put the .desktop shortcut file in /usr/share/applications
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| 09:56 | or /usr/local/share/applications would be better actually
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| 09:56 | <Blinny> I need to change the location of an item. Is that contained in the .desktop file?
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| 09:57 | <bieb> isnt it /Desktop and /.config of the users home dir?
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| 09:58 | <Blinny> (specifically, moving Tuxtype from games to education - I'm thinking I just change the 'Categories' entry in the .desktop?
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| 09:58 | <ogra> should work, yes
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| 09:58 | thugh be aware that if you edit files in /usr/share/applications they get overwritten on package updates
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| 09:59 | <Blinny> Gotchya. Thanks tstafford_, ogra
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| 10:02 | <joachim> Hi, anyone has time to listen to my problem? we'v done a great ammount of research already, its just one small thing that doesn't want to work
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| 10:02 | <Blinny> joachim: Don't ask to ask just ask the question (;
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| 10:03 | <joachim> kk ok :p just don't want to be annoying, guess i failed but anyway :P
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| 10:03 | its about running firefox in a screenscript
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| 10:04 | its weird thing we have. we managed to go a long way, and if we do start a xterm in X, we can fire up firefox without problems
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| 10:04 | but if we try to replace the /usr/bin/xterm with /usr/bin/firefox in the screenscript, it doesn't work
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| 10:04 | so we tried using /usr/bin/xterm -e /usr/bin/firefox but that also fails
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| 10:05 | <Blinny> joachim: Please pastebin your script
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| 10:05 | <joachim> we now managed to "solve" it by putting /usr/bin/firefox in the .bashrc of root but thats kinda dirty :(
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| 10:05 | sec ssh'ing to server
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| 10:06 | <Blinny> and tell us the desired behavior
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| 10:06 | <ogra> joachim, did you look at the ubuntu kiosk plugin how its done there ?
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| 10:06 | its pretty outdated but the principle shouldnt have changed
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| 10:07 | <joachim> done a lot of research, do you mean the linux-update-image --kiosk thing?
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| 10:07 | vmlintu has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:07 | <ogra> no
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| 10:08 | <vmlintu> Any ltsp-upstream maintainers here? (lp:~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk)
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| 10:09 | <joachim> Blinny: http://pastebin.com/m6b4adec9
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| 10:09 | <ogra> joachim, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins has an example plugin at the bottom that configures a webkiosk setup
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| 10:09 | <joachim> what we do is, screen_06 = xgeneric and then give an app with a global XGENERIC variable
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| 10:09 | <ogra> vmlintu, many, why ?
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| 10:10 | <joachim> seen that ogra
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| 10:10 | <ltsplogbot> I don't know who that is.
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| 10:10 | <vmlintu> ogra: I'm just wondering how to get small fixes included.. e.g. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/412034
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| 10:10 | <ogra> vmlintu, configure-x.sh is obsolete since over a year
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| 10:11 | should be removed from the code tree actually
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| 10:11 | <joachim> and Blinny, that script works fine for lets say, vlc or some other app
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| 10:11 | <ogra> its a freaky insane script i wrote as workaround until we have the proper mechanism ready
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| 10:11 | <joachim> and if we do it manually from a shell it also works
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| 10:11 | <vmlintu> oh, I saw it in the tree and thought that it'd be still in use..
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| 10:12 | <ogra> vmlintu, what ubuntu release is that ?
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| 10:12 | <vmlintu> ogra: I'm using 8.04
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| 10:12 | <ogra> its definately not used in jaunty and i think not even in intrepid
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| 10:12 | oh, k
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| 10:12 | <vmlintu> ogra: I checked the ltsp-trunk tree after noticing this and thought that it'd be still in use
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| 10:13 | <Blinny> joachim: I'm in over my head there. You're basically trying a FF-only kiosk setup?
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| 10:13 | <ogra> its not actually, input devices are handled by hal nowadays and x settings through xrandr
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| 10:14 | <joachim> Blinny: we use the clients to play a flash in fullscreen on a screen. The flash is centralized on a server
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| 10:14 | <vmlintu> ogra: now that I remember, is this still relevant with newer releases: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=123565544122688&w=2
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| 10:15 | <joachim> so i created a firefox profile to launch it, fullscreen. And that all works
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| 10:15 | <vmlintu> ogra: sorry, old mail
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| 10:15 | <joachim> last step we now have to succeed is starting firefox automated
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| 10:16 | <Blinny> This is probably the Wrong Way to do it, but couldn't you just throw your FF script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d ?
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| 10:16 | <joachim> no interaction with the firefox is done. It just has to open go fullscreen then load the flash
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| 10:16 | <ogra> vmlintu, committed your fix and pushed it ...
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| 10:17 | <vmlintu> ogra: the one that used BOOTIF ?
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| 10:18 | <joachim> Blinny: first time i stumble on these scripts
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| 10:18 | <ogra> vmlintu, no, the one you asked about first
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| 10:19 | <joachim> thing is we use our build also for other things so we really want to make some sort of profile
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| 10:19 | <Blinny> joachim: I put scripts in there to rsync homes post-login but pre-desktop
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| 10:19 | <ogra> vmlintu, the NIC thing is a real borken design
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| 10:19 | <Blinny> joachim: Ah.
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| 10:19 | <vmlintu> ogra: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=123568785721668&w=2
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| 10:19 | <ogra> vmlintu, nowadays ltsp would load all modules for all NICs anyway
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| 10:19 | yes, thats broken as i said
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| 10:20 | <Blinny> joachim: I think having a separate kiosk chroot is the way to go then.
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| 10:20 | <joachim> like on the ubuntu wiki?
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| 10:20 | <Blinny> Yes.
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| 10:20 | <ogra> vmlintu, the modules will be loaded anyway with modern OSes, your problem lies elsewhere
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| 10:20 | <joachim> so that means i'd get a /opt/ltsp/kiosk chroot
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| 10:20 | <ogra> vmlintu, which i think stgraber solved in karmic by using udhcpc
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| 10:20 | <vmlintu> ogra: the later link was the actual patch that was going to ask
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| 10:21 | <joachim> maybe rather stupid question, where do i define the client to not boot the i386 but that plugin?
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| 10:21 | <vmlintu> ogra: I first copied the NIC= fix that was really bad idea
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| 10:21 | hanthana has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:21 | <ogra> its pointless, the prob is that you need to tell ipconfig which NIC to use
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| 10:21 | the module is loaded anyway
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| 10:22 | <vmlintu> ogra: hmm.. this is not about loading the correct module: http://marc.info/?l=ltsp-developer&m=123568785721668&w=2
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| 10:23 | ogra: it's about choosing the correct interface
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| 10:23 | <ogra> no, the first one is
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| 10:23 | and thats loaded anyway
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| 10:23 | the second one is solved by stgraber's inclusion of udhcpc
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| 10:24 | <vmlintu> ogra: sorry, I never meant to send the link to the first one.. I was too fast copy-pasting
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| 10:24 | <Blinny> joachim: /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf -- I believe you want option root-path but that is a guess. There may be a lts.conf way of doing it
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| 10:24 | <ogra> vmlintu, ah
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| 10:24 | <joachim> ah through dhcp... k
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| 10:24 | <ogra> vmlintu, well, talk to stgraber, i think the fix of the second link is included in his changes
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| 10:24 | <joachim> maybe we'll just have to start the firefoxes manually in that case :( its strage that we can fire them from shell but not from script
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| 10:25 | <ogra> joachim, depends on your distro
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| 10:25 | ubuntu doesnt use root-path at all
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| 10:25 | there you define it in inetd.conf
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| 10:25 | <joachim> the dhcp is on another (centos server)
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| 10:26 | <vmlintu> ogra: ok, I'll check that with stgraber.. thanks!
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| 10:26 | <Blinny> ogra: Is that true for LTS hardy as well? (no root-path directive)
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| 10:27 | <ogra> since gutsy
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| 10:27 | since we dropped NFS by default
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| 10:27 | <Blinny> Ah. Dig. Thank you.
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| 10:28 | <vmlintu> ogra: for the future - what is the best place to send patches? ltsp-developer / launchpad / somewhere else?
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| 10:28 | <joachim> anyway, ltsp is rather cool :) we v solved loads of funny tasks with it already :)
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| 10:28 | <ogra> launchpad as bugs is fine
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| 10:29 | <zamba> does anyone know of a set of programs or suite for remotely powering on and off computers? using WoL and ssh?
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| 10:30 | <Blinny> zamba: I think iTalc do that if properly configured.
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| 10:30 | <zamba> i have written some small scripts myself which i've set up in crontab, but i want more flexibility and ease of use (for someone non-technical - so a web program would be perfect)
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| 10:30 | <Blinny> :s;do;does
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| 10:31 | <zamba> oh, interesting
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| 10:31 | thanks
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| 10:31 | this uses vnc?
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| 10:31 | <ogra> zamba, i think the ubuntu ltsp documentation on the wiki has a howto from Lns for that
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| 10:31 | <alkisg> vmlintu: there where 2 changes related to BOOTIF, one in debian (which handles ipconfig) and one ubuntu-only so far, which solves it with udhcp
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| 10:31 | Karmic handles it out of the box, backports are available for jaunty AFAIK
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| 10:32 | <vmlintu> alkisg: do you know which package includes the fixes?
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| 10:33 | <ogra> ltsp-client or -core should have it
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| 10:33 | <zamba> Blinny: that uses vnc, right?
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| 10:33 | ogra: where do i find the "ubuntu ltsp documentation"?
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| 10:33 | http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ubuntu ?
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| 10:34 | <vmlintu> ok..
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| 10:34 | <ogra> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AutomatedTCShutodwn
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| 10:34 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AutomatedTCStartup
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| 10:34 | heh, the first one has a funny typo :)
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| 10:34 | <zamba> hehe
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| 10:34 | <alkisg> vmlintu: ltsp-client-core: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 10:35 | <vmlintu> For automatic TC shutdown, autopoweroff is quite nice: http://autopoweroff.sourceforge.net/
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| 10:36 | alkisg: thanks, I'll test that with some funky hardware.. I'm just waiting the switch to karmic with some horror..
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| 10:37 | <zamba> ogra: yeah, that's basically the same wheel as i've invented.. it uses WoL in the same way
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| 10:37 | <ogra> vmlintu, karmic is fun :)
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| 10:37 | <zamba> but italc looks very interesting, for other reasons
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| 10:38 | Blinny: does it use vnc?
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| 10:39 | <vmlintu> ogra: it's actually X that I'm worried about as all automatic configuration breaks when using document cameras between the tc and monitor..
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| 10:39 | <Blinny> zamba: I don't believe so.
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| 10:40 | Hrm. Maybe it does.
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| 10:40 | <zamba> very interesting
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| 10:40 | <Blinny> Ah yes. Appears it does.
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| 10:40 | <zamba> this would be an easy sell for our teachers having students at courses
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| 10:41 | it's a vnc server, yeah
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| 10:41 | i have to test this in my environment..
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| 10:41 | <Blinny> If you're in the classroom, you may want to consider fl_teachertool
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| 10:41 | <zamba> thanks for the hint
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| 10:41 | it's not LTSP clients
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| 10:41 | .. yet
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| 10:42 | and italc has the other benefit of being in the repositories
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| 10:42 | <ogra> an dbeng cross platform/cross purpose
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| 10:43 | *and being
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| 10:43 | <Blinny> *Nod*
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| 10:43 | <ogra> you can crontrol windows systems with it too
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| 10:43 | or control linux *From* windows
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| 10:43 | it controls workstations as well as thin clients
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| 10:43 | Ahmuck-Sr has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:43 | <Blinny> ...not so much on remote servers over a WAN though..
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| 10:44 | <zamba> anyway.. off to install it.. i'll report back to base :)
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| 10:44 | <Blinny> remote control is no good over a T1
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| 10:45 | <zamba> the only potential problem i can see is that teachers use a projector.. and this will invariably also project the monitor stuff, i guess..
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| 10:45 | unless the driver is able to just project a single workspace..
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| 10:45 | hm
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| 10:45 | <Ahmuck-Sr> it is
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| 10:45 | <zamba> cool
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| 10:45 | i'll need some more information about that as well
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| 10:45 | you mean italc or X?
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| 10:46 | <Ahmuck-Sr> most projection capablities in a laptop allow one to use different workspaces specifiying which get's projected
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| 10:47 | i see someone fixed the double italc stuff
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| 10:47 | <zamba> ok
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| 10:57 | anyone here installed iTalc?
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| 11:00 | i'm unable to launch it.. it complains about keys not generated.. but the installation process generated keys and i've also run ica -createkeypair manually afterwards
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| 11:00 | ah, nevermind
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| 11:01 | <Ahmuck-Sr> well, partially i've got it
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| 11:02 | alkisg: where's the docs on iTalc?
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| 11:03 | <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: google for: ubuntultsp italc
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| 11:03 | <zamba> http://italc.sourceforge.net/documentation.php
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| 11:03 | <alkisg> no, the ubuntu ones
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| 11:03 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
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| 11:04 | zamba: I think you need to logoff for ica to run
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| 11:04 | or, manually run: ica-launcher
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| 11:04 | <zamba> yeah, trying now
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| 11:09 | cool.. got italc running..
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| 11:09 | on the master side
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| 11:12 | Ahmuck-Sr: i have to copy over the public key for the teacher to each and every computer i want to monitor, right?
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> zamba: no
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| 11:18 | <zamba> ok.. i just did :p
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> zamba: there are 2 ways to install italc in ltsp. One is on the server; you don't need to do anything apart from apt-get install italc-master.
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| 11:18 | <zamba> i'm actually not in a thin client environment
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> zamba: ah, ok
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| 11:18 | <zamba> fat clients here
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| 11:18 | <alkisg> then you do need to copy the keys :)
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| 11:19 | nubae's script? then you need to copy the keys to the fati386 chroot...
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| 11:19 | <zamba> hm?
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| 11:22 | <Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg: explain more ... one on the server, assuming that the server is not in a ltsp environment?
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| 11:22 | irule has quit IRC | |
| 11:22 | <zamba> i'm just curious as to which files to copy
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| 11:22 | and does this use ssh?
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| 11:22 | <alkisg> If not on a ltsp environment, then there's only 1 way to do it, the way zamba did.
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| 11:22 | I.e. install it to all pcs and copy the keys
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| 11:23 | <zamba> alkisg: install italc-master to all clients?
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> No, the client
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| 11:23 | <zamba> alkisg: i only need italc-client, right?
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| 11:23 | ok.. but which keys should be copied?
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> The master is only needed in the controlling pc
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| 11:23 | <zamba> all? or just the public ones?
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| 11:23 | <Ahmuck-Sr> if i'm on a ltsp environment then i need server and client
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| 11:23 | <alkisg> the "other" keys. See the wiki page, there are details there.
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| 11:24 | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/iTalc
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| 11:24 | <zamba> i see it uses port 5800 (which is java's vnc implementation if using vnc)
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| 11:25 | <alkisg> 5800 and 5900
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| 11:25 | control port and data port
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| 11:25 | <zamba> i guess 5900 gets opened once i'm connected?
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| 11:25 | because i only see 5800 listening now
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| 11:25 | on the computer in question
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| 11:25 | but what "other" keys are you talking about?
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| 11:26 | that link you gave me provided no hints to any other keys
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| 11:26 | and it's only related to LTSP
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| 11:26 | "Especially if you re-create keys regularly (e.g. for security-reasons) you'll get annoyed with copying public keys to each client. Under Linux you can solve this issue by making /etc/italc/keys a symlink to a directory inside a NFS/SMB-mount or AFS-tree."
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| 11:27 | <alkisg> Ah yeah it was changed since I last read it
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| 11:27 | <zamba> that's from the italc's wiki
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| 11:28 | <Ahmuck-Sr> so on ltsp i need to install the client portion in chroot as well
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| 11:28 | <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: on ltsp, there are 2 methods to install italc. The simple one is: sudo apt-get install italc-master. Nothing else.
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| 11:28 | The second one is more difficult, on the chroot, see the wiki page for details.
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| 11:29 | <zamba> the documentation for windows is superiour to the linux one in the italc wiki
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| 11:29 | that's a first
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| 11:29 | <alkisg> zamba: I have these: tcp 0 0 *:5800 *:* LISTEN 7201/ica // tcp 0 0 *:5900 *:* LISTEN 7204/ica
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| 11:29 | <zamba> alkisg: i only have 5800
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| 11:30 | <alkisg> Do you have vnc server or vino server running?
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| 11:30 | <zamba> nope, not as far as i know
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| 11:30 | <alkisg> Maybe it only opens when it's used, I don't know.. I just used it half an hour ago.
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| 11:30 | <Ahmuck-Sr> alkisg: how do i determine what method to install ?
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| 11:31 | <zamba> alkisg: but again, how and which keys do i install?
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| 11:31 | <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: the simple method only works after the users logon, so you can't handle the pc when it's in ldm
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| 11:31 | zamba: this line from the wiki should be enough: scp -r /etc/italc/keys USER@server2:/etc/italc/
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| 11:32 | <Ahmuck-Sr> ah, ok
| |
| 11:32 | <zamba> that copies the private keys too, do we want that?
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| 11:32 | <Ahmuck-Sr> so ... i did the server side only, and it failed to work
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| 11:32 | <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: but it also uses less ram, so e.g. if your clients only have 64 or 128 mb ram, you don't have much options...
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| 11:32 | zamba: permissions are also copied, so it should trouble you much...
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| 11:32 | <zamba> ah, sure
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> I.e. students won't be able to read the teacher keys
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| 11:33 | *shouldn't
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| 11:33 | <Ahmuck-Sr> no iTalc service running. is this an error ?
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> Ahmuck-Sr: you need to logoff and logon again for ica-launcher to run. Or, run it manually.
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| 11:33 | <Ahmuck-Sr> server side uses less ram?
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| 11:33 | <alkisg> Yes, it only uses server ram
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| 11:34 | <Ahmuck-Sr> i ran it manually, but no go
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| 11:34 | <zamba> cool!
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| 11:34 | <Ahmuck-Sr> so doing the client side uses client side ram as well
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| 11:34 | <alkisg> What did ica-launcher tell you?
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| 11:34 | <zamba> got it working
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| 11:34 | aiai
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| 11:34 | <alkisg> zamba: cool :)
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| 11:34 | <Ahmuck-Sr> let me log out first and try again
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| 11:34 | rjune_ has quit IRC | |
| 11:34 | * alkisg 'll be back in 10'. | |
| 11:35 | rjune_ has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:39 | <knipwim> can someone close bug 411107, this has been solved
| |
| 11:40 | johnny committed a patch for that yesterday
| |
| 11:42 | <johnny> i can close it
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| 11:42 | knipwim, you should also fork the overlay
| |
| 11:42 | and let me pull it
| |
| 11:42 | fork it on github if you want
| |
| 11:42 | or gitorious
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| 11:42 | whatever you like
| |
| 11:43 | <knipwim> http://git.flowledge.nl/?p=ltsp-overlay.git;a=summary
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| 11:44 | <ogra> johnny, note that LP can pull git trees, if it helps you could create a distro tree in under the team, thats mergeable then in ltsp-trunk
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| 11:45 | (one that mirrors a gentoo git)
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| 11:46 | s/in//
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| 11:46 | <johnny> nah
| |
| 11:46 | this is the overlay code
| |
| 11:46 | not the ltsp code
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| 11:46 | overlay as in repository..
| |
| 11:46 | it's the packaging code
| |
| 11:47 | knipwim, duh.. you already had that right? :)
| |
| 11:47 | lol
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| 11:47 | sorry :(
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| 11:47 | <ogra> ah
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| 11:47 | <johnny> knipwim, you run repoman before committing right?
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| 11:48 | <knipwim> ehh
| |
| 11:48 | <johnny> repoman full even..
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| 11:48 | we can't use stuff you don't repoman
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| 11:48 | knipwim, last night i dropped the ~ udev and fuse
| |
| 11:48 | finally! :)
| |
| 11:49 | <knipwim> i saw, nice
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| 11:49 | <johnny> knipwim, make sure you have gentoolkit and gentoolkit-dev
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| 11:49 | <knipwim> for the repoman
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| 11:49 | <johnny> yes
| |
| 11:50 | <knipwim> i thought i did it
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| 11:50 | <johnny> thought you did repoman?
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| 11:50 | also.. you must do repoman full :)
| |
| 11:51 | what exactly are these examples ?
| |
| 11:51 | <knipwim> hmmm, i guess no repoman has been done on the originals
| |
| 11:52 | i gives me errors on code i didn't touch
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| 11:53 | fotanus has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:53 | <johnny> yes.. i did repoman originally
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| 11:53 | but not since last october
| |
| 11:53 | since i haven't had a gentoo box since then
| |
| 11:53 | i did a few necessary unrepoman fixes
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| 11:54 | <knipwim> amongst other: IUSE.invalid net-misc/ltsp-server/ltsp-server-9999.ebuild: dhcp
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| 11:54 | <johnny> i think the rules got stricter
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| 11:55 | hmm.. we probably need to describe those flags in the proper place?
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| 11:55 | is that what it is whining about?
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| 11:55 | <knipwim> yeah in metadata.xml
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| 11:55 | <johnny> ahh.. i remember
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| 11:55 | at the time i was waiting for the metadata.xml for use.local.desc stuff to shake out
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| 11:56 | s/for/vs/
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| 12:01 | <knipwim> check, it's in my todo list
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| 12:01 | i'll make an extra repoman check commit
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| 12:03 | <johnny> i don't think we can rely on repoman 100% tho, does it succeed completely now?
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| 12:03 | i think there are some issues that can't be marked as complete just because it's in an overlaly
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| 12:03 | altho maybe they relaxed it a bit now
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| 12:03 | garymc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:03 | <knipwim> i think i can solve all issues
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| 12:04 | <garymc> Hi guys. anyone know how I would setup Ubuntu 9.04 so it utelises 3 rack servers?
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| 12:04 | ubuntu LTSP
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| 12:04 | ive got ubuntu 9.04 LTSP on one server now working great
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| 12:05 | would like it to utelise the full power of 3 combined servers
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| 12:05 | is this possible? and how?
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| 12:06 | maybe im jumping ahead of myself
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| 12:08 | <Ahmuck-Sr> garymc: yes it's possible
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| 12:08 | <garymc> how?
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| 12:08 | <Ahmuck-Sr> ltsp does load balancing
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| 12:08 | it's in the docs
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| 12:08 | in the topic
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| 12:08 | <garymc> ok.... im new to all this you see, only just touched a server a couple of weeks ago
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| 12:08 | how do i link them. just plug it into the ethernet switch?
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| 12:08 | bobby_C has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:09 | <Ahmuck-Sr> http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#session-dispatching
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| 12:10 | http://www.ltsp.org/~sbalneav/LTSPManual.html#id2699488
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| 12:10 | <garymc> does that mean i have to install Ubuntu LTSP on each server
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| 12:11 | <Ahmuck-Sr> multiple servers is not for the timid
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| 12:11 | <garymc> then the thin client has to select one each time?
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| 12:11 | <Ahmuck-Sr> r u trying to do clients or multiple server?
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| 12:11 | <garymc> I just want them to share resources
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| 12:11 | <Ahmuck-Sr> what kind of resources?
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| 12:11 | <garymc> CPU hard drives
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| 12:11 | <Ahmuck-Sr> like a bewolf ltsp cluster?
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| 12:11 | <garymc> you know spread the work load
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| 12:11 | maybe
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| 12:12 | <Ahmuck-Sr> read the docs. this is something you MUST do before attempting multiple servers
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| 12:12 | <garymc> ok
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| 12:12 | cluster servers?
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| 12:12 | <johnny> what about ltsp cluster? how's that doing?
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| 12:12 | <Ahmuck-Sr> those links i posted are specific for what your tryin gto do
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| 12:13 | <garymc> ok
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| 12:13 | <Ahmuck-Sr> https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster
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| 12:13 | as well as that one, to confuse you a bit more
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| 12:13 | johnny: i didn't realize that cluster servers were so far along
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| 12:14 | <Blinny> Do we have session failover?
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| 12:14 | <johnny> session failover?
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| 12:15 | <Blinny> One server dies, session is migrated to another.
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| 12:15 | <ogra> no
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> Wow
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| 12:15 | <ogra> but load balancin on login
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| 12:16 | <Blinny> Right on.
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| 12:16 | <ogra> thats what ltsp-cluster does
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| 12:16 | <Blinny> Yeah I'm thinking more drdb stuff
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| 12:16 | <ogra> that would require some evil hacks to X :)
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| 12:16 | <Blinny> I'm sure.
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| 12:17 | * ogra & | |
| 12:17 | <Blinny> But it ain't a bad destination to have on the long-term roadmap.
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| 12:17 | <alkisg> only X? what about the whole hardware state?
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| 12:18 | * alkisg doesn't think that's easily feasible without some kind of VM | |
| 12:18 | <Blinny> There's a lot involved. http://www.drbd.org/home/what-is-ha/
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| 12:19 | <johnny> things will become feasible as the drivers are migrated to the kernel hopefully
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| 12:19 | and the server code is cleansed
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| 12:20 | <alkisg> Well, if the failed machine has 4 Gb RAM and the target machine 2 Gb, how's the migration going to work?
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| 12:21 | If process A allocated 64 Mb textures on videoram, and the target card only has 32 mb vram?
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| 12:23 | <Blinny> Yeah I don't think you want to do that. (;
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| 12:24 | I think that's what is commonly referred to as putting 10 gallons of shit in a 5 gallon bucket.
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| 12:33 | <johnny> you're talking about 2 different things..
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| 12:34 | moving the session to another server, or logging in as a different client to the same session
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| 12:35 | i can't wait til all drivers support kms..
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| 12:35 | <Blinny> Won't all sessions eventually be persistent?
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| 12:38 | Ideally all sessions would work like screen/NX scripts
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| 12:39 | Other than actual implementation, the limiting factor is of course RAM, but you could imagine a to-disk session hibernation.
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| 12:39 | <sbalneav> If someone writes it, sure :)
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| 12:40 | <Blinny> Exactly.
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| 12:40 | <sbalneav> You volunteering? :)
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| 12:40 | <Blinny> I haven't written C in a long time, but I'd guess that, without knowing X internals, the project would have far-reaching fingers.
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| 12:41 | It would be conceptually easier if every app was stateful.
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| 12:41 | (a weak example of this being Firefox's saved tabs)
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| 12:42 | That way you could close all the apps pre-session hibernation and just fire them back up upon session wakeup
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| 12:42 | sbalneav: As of right now, I'm more of the useless idea guy type. (;
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| 12:44 | <sbalneav> I already have all the detachability I've ever wanted with screen :)
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| 12:44 | <Blinny> Right.
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| 12:45 | You could say the same with shared /home's
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| 12:45 | <johnny> we need more work at the X level for sure
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| 12:46 | but it's happening.. just at a very slow pace.. due to the lack of qualified people working on it
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| 12:46 | people are attacking the problem at different levels
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| 12:46 | <Blinny> Steep learning curve.
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| 12:46 | <johnny> check out the wayland X server for example
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| 12:47 | Blinny, and of course.. if more apps go web.. even locally hosted.. there is even less to do
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| 12:47 | joachim has quit IRC | |
| 12:47 | <johnny> i look at the apps that are open on my desktop.. and most of them could be replaced by a proper web application.. if there were more interaction with the desktop and web server.. like mail notifications and event notifcations
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| 12:48 | atm.. i have terminal, evolution, gajim, and firefox open.. that's about it
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| 12:49 | of course.. games and OOo will be a bit harder to do online.. but seem to be coming closer every day..
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| 12:49 | <Blinny> Right. Well, eventually the entire session will go into the cloud. Sure Chrome is nice but when I get bandwidth I don't want moving parts at home either.
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| 12:49 | <johnny> ?
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| 12:49 | <Blinny> Basically, LTSP as a service
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| 12:50 | <johnny> there are companies doing that already
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| 12:50 | altho not using ltsp
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| 12:50 | <Blinny> Doing that well?
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| 12:50 | <johnny> i think litl is doing it..
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| 12:50 | and some company that sells little gentoo computers.. i forgot what they are called
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| 12:50 | <Blinny> As you say though, the big problem is local devices, games...
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| 12:50 | <johnny> it's hard to know what litl is really doing.. they are still in stealth mode
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| 12:50 | local devices is easy
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| 12:51 | it's making sure a remote application can do something with them that is hard :)
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| 12:51 | but we're moving in that direction with gudev
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| 12:51 | <Blinny> Right on.
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| 12:51 | <johnny> games are probably going to take the longest
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| 12:52 | until we all have fiber
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| 12:52 | <sbalneav> My sessions will never, ever, EVER go into the cloud.
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| 12:52 | <Blinny> Dunno. There's been a few companies I've read about that are going that way now.
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| 12:52 | <johnny> sbalneav, even if the cloud is self hosted?
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| 12:52 | <sbalneav> Any computing we do will have to stay here in this building
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| 12:52 | <johnny> sbalneav, sure.. that's a feasible option.. and probably the best for most
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| 12:52 | <Blinny> sbalneav: Is that based on the assumption that we won't have strong encryption?
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| 12:52 | <sbalneav> It's not a "cloud" if it's all your own machines. :)
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| 12:53 | <johnny> sorry.. using cloud .. and web based interchangeably
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| 12:53 | vagrantc has joined #ltsp | |
| 12:53 | <johnny> but it'll be no different for your users
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| 12:53 | except for the url they type in
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| 12:53 | <Blinny> Making the PC an appliance would free up a LOT of money, and given the nature of 'the cloud', most of it would be recurring costs.
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| 12:54 | <sbalneav> Blinny: That's based on the fact that judges ask us chain-of-custody questions, and "Well, your Honour, the photos of the murder victime were out... ON THE CLOUD" would get me 10 years in jail :)
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| 12:54 | <johnny> Blinny, well if you host the apps locallly you'll still save money
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| 12:54 | <Blinny> johnny: If you have the apps
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| 12:54 | <johnny> the apps are coming
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| 12:54 | <Blinny> sbalneav: Right
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| 12:54 | sbalneav: And a trust in the persistence of the cloud too
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| 12:54 | <johnny> especially since you're seeing native coe compliation of js , you'll even have decent games :)
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| 12:55 | code*
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| 12:56 | <Blinny> onLive - that's the streaming game crap I was thinking of. That and Gaikai
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| 12:57 | * vagrantc looks puzzled to see work on configure-x.sh | |
| 12:57 | <Blinny> vagrantc: 11:12AM EST vmlintu fixed a bug
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| 12:58 | <vagrantc> vagrantc: sure, it's just ... something i was expecting to see removed or just sit there forever
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| 12:59 | <Blinny> It's still used in Ubuntu's current LTS, no?
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| 12:59 | <vagrantc> don't believe so
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| 12:59 | oh, right
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| 12:59 | but LTS doesn't get new code at this point
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| 13:25 | <jammcq> hello friends
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| 13:39 | <rjune_> !j
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| 13:39 | <ltspbot> rjune_: "j" is jammcq!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| 13:40 | <garymc> Im not having any luck with this server clustering idea
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| 13:40 | is there a self explanitory document anywhere?
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| 13:40 | <ogra> vagrantc, i just wanted to be nice to a contributor :)
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| 13:41 | <vagrantc> ogra: :)
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| 13:41 | <garymc> Hey Ogra
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| 13:41 | you know an easy'ish way I can cluster my 3 rack servers together as if they where one?
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| 13:41 | <ogra> no
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| 13:42 | <garymc> hmmm
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| 13:42 | <ogra> as i said 1.5h ago, you can do load balancing
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| 13:42 | but things like beowulf are not supported in linux 2.6
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| 13:42 | <garymc> ive got 3 rack servers all the same spec and would love to utelise the CPU and Hard drives all as one
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| 13:43 | ohh right sorry
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| 13:43 | it was you who said load balancing
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| 13:43 | <johnny> hmm.. ltsp cluster?
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| 13:43 | <ogra> right
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| 13:43 | <garymc> yes johnny thought since i got 3 rack servers, i should use all the power of them
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| 13:43 | some how
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| 13:44 | <johnny> well.. you're gonna have to play around with ltsp-cluster
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| 13:44 | i've personally never used it
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| 13:44 | <garymc> so how would i install in
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| 13:44 | * ogra would put all his disks into one of the machines and make it a fileserver, netboot the two others and make them ltsp appservers | |
| 13:44 | <garymc> apt-get
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| 13:45 | ogra sounds good too
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| 13:45 | <ogra> its a very distinct and not an easy setup though
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| 13:45 | <garymc> hmm ok
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| 13:46 | <garymc> ive heard theres a debian based beowolf installation?
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| 13:46 | <ogra> there are ltsp-cluster docs somewhere on the net
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| 13:46 | <garymc> ogra: im looking for them now
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| 13:46 | <ogra> beowulf means yu need to compile your own kernel
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| 13:46 | and know a lot about low level stuff
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| 13:46 | <garymc> ok i cant do that
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| 13:46 | <ogra> and you will need to switch to a non distro kernel
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| 13:47 | since there is no official support for any beowulf stuff in recent kernels
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| 13:47 | <garymc> so i dont want that
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| 13:47 | <ogra> likely
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| 13:47 | wait for stgraber to drop by, he maintains ltsp-cluster
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| 13:47 | Ahmuck-Sr has joined #ltsp | |
| 13:47 | <ogra> until he shows up, read all you can get your hands on about it
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| 13:48 | so you understand what you talk about once he is here ;)
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| 13:49 | <garymc> ok thanks
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| 13:49 | i may have to come back 2morow
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| 14:09 | <alkisg> If a classroom has e.g. 12 powerful PCs but no server, is there any way to maintain a linux installation on one of them, and netboot the others and let them use the same file system? (with nfs & some other magic, I imagine...) Something like nubae's fat client script, but with no chroot involved?
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| 14:15 | <EDinNY> alkisg, you still here?
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| 14:15 | <alkisg> EDinNY: yup?
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| 14:15 | <jammcq> EDinNY: ?
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| 14:16 | <EDinNY> hi jammcq!
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| 14:16 | <jammcq> hey, how's it goin?
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| 14:16 | <EDinNY> good
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| 14:18 | <sbalneav> Hello Ed
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| 14:18 | <EDinNY> hi
| |
| 14:18 | how you been?
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| 14:19 | <sbalneav> Still here :)
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| 14:19 | <vagrantc> alkisg: just use a fat client process ... what do you really gain by trying to avoid it?
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| 14:19 | <sbalneav> Right side of the grass and all
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| 14:19 | <jammcq> sbalneav: Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
| |
| 14:19 | <sbalneav> Hey jammcq
| |
| 14:19 | vagrantc: So... wanna help me be sabayon maintainer for Debian? :)
| |
| 14:19 | <alkisg> vagrantc: much simpler maintainance. Maintaing programs into a chroot requires command line and is difficult for a teacher...
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| 14:19 | <EDinNY> they don't do linuxworld in the northeast anymore
| |
| 14:20 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'm thrilled at the idea of working with you on other projects, but unfortunately feel like i've got a bit too much on my plate already to take on a project i haven't ever used :)
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| 14:20 | sbalneav: but i suspect there would be other good folk to help you with it
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| 14:21 | <sbalneav> Was that thrilled thrilled, or <sarcasm>thrilled</sarcasm> thrilled? :)
| |
| 14:22 | Yeah, looks like some of the others are willing to put up with me.
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| 14:22 | I'll take it on.
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| 14:22 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: genuinely thrilled! you're great :)
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| 14:22 | <alkisg> EDinNY: did you want something?
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| 14:23 | <sbalneav> phhht. I'm an *sshole, and I know it. No need to butter me up :)
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| 14:23 | brb, got a hot vmware install going on. :)
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| 14:23 | <johnny> but you're my favorite asshole
| |
| 14:23 | hehe
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| 14:24 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: i'd *much* rather have to deal with your quirks than half a dozen other people i've had the misfortune to be stuck with lately.
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| 14:32 | <jammcq> sbalneav: I'm *thrilled* just to know you
| |
| 14:37 | * ogra humms t.t.t.thriiiiller ... | |
| 14:37 | <jammcq> yeah, exactly like that
| |
| 14:38 | <ogra> sbalneav, did you say you try to become a DD and take over sabayon there ?
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| 14:42 | <Ryan52> sbalneav: I can help you probably.
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| 14:44 | <ogra> sbalneav, or i can kick NCommander to be your sponsor as well
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| 14:44 | plenty of options :)
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> Are the nfs exporting parameters there still valid for jaunty? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS#Reverting%20to%20NFS%20if%20you%20want%20to
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| 15:16 | <coordinador> hi
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| 15:19 | <sbalneav> Hello
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| 15:20 | <johnny> alkisg, should be
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| 15:20 | if not.. file a bug
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> I'm trying to switch Jaunty to use NFS for TCs, do I need to change anything in pxelinux.cfg/default? root=/opt/ltsp/i386 and boot=nfs, something like that?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> Thanks johnny, will do if I get it to boot :)
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| 15:20 | <coordinador> somebody from diskless workstations?
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| 15:21 | <alkisg> coordinador: you lost him by 2 minutes :) (11:14:18 μμ) CAN-o-SPAM έφυγε από το δωμάτιο (quit: "ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.13/2009073022]").
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| 15:21 | <coordinador> :o
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| 15:21 | too bad, i needed to talk to him urgently
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| 15:23 | <johnny> coordinador, stop asking in here
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| 15:23 | call them in the phone, send them emails
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| 15:23 | <coordinador> ok johnny
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| 17:10 | <zamba> i've asked a similar question like this before, but i've modified my approach a bit since that time.. i want to give a certain set of users that log on my ltsp environment the same environment (eg. home directory).. different logins/usernames, but the same home directory.. how could this best be implemented?
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| 17:12 | <laga> create a group for that set of users, create home directory, set owner, make home-directory group-writable, set home directory for affected users
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| 17:12 | fotanus has quit IRC | |
| 17:12 | <Ahmuck-Sr> use a shared directory
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| 17:13 | <zamba> Ahmuck-Sr: i can't use a shared home directory, can i?
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| 17:13 | Ahmuck-Sr: give every user the same home?
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| 17:13 | <Ahmuck-Sr> do like laga said
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| 17:14 | <zamba> huh?
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| 17:14 | laga said?
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| 17:14 | that even english words? :)
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| 17:14 | oh, irc nick
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| 17:14 | oh.. i didn't see his response.. my bad :D
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| 17:15 | another requirement.. the users shouldn't be able to modify it
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| 17:15 | i guess firefox and the like will go crazy if 50+ users all write to the same .mozilla structure
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| 17:16 | so i want a skeleton home and then a writable layer on top of that
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| 17:16 | if that makes any sense
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| 17:31 | <zamba> i guess not :)
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| 17:31 | <tstafford_> maybe unionfs or something like that
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| 17:31 | <zamba> yeah, i've used that on my fat clients.. but how can i get that working with thin clients?
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| 17:32 | oh, nevermind..
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| 17:32 | <zamba> my problem earlier was related to the fact that i wanted the same username for all users
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| 17:42 | <laga> zamba: use aufs to get a writable layer for each user? or set MOZILLA_HOME to /tmp/$bar, if a thing like $MOZILLA_HOME exists
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| 17:43 | <zamba> laga: well, i can't do that for every potential application, so i need something that works no matter
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| 17:43 | <laga> then use aufs
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| 17:44 | <johnny> why do you want the same user names for all users
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| 17:44 | just use guestlogin
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| 17:45 | and create an account for each pc
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| 17:45 | done
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| 17:45 | <zamba> johnny: i don't want that
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| 17:45 | <johnny> why not
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| 17:45 | what you want is not easily achievable otherwise
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| 17:45 | <zamba> johnny: no, i mean, i don't want the same username for all users :)
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| 17:45 | johnny: but my previous attempt at this had the requirement that all users should have the same username
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| 17:46 | not anymore
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| 17:46 | so i'll probably use the guest account login, as you mentioned
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| 17:46 | <johnny> i just use guestlogin for all my terminals now
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| 17:46 | with ssh key
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| 17:46 | <zamba> ssh key? oh?
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| 17:46 | what do you mean?
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| 17:47 | <johnny> the default for guestlogin is to use the hostname for the username, and the password
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| 17:47 | but.. it will login with an ssh key instead if you have one
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| 17:47 | <zamba> why isn't the hostname for username sufficient?
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| 17:47 | what extra benefit do you get from using the ssh key?
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| 17:48 | <johnny> because a remote user logged in and ran an irc bouncer
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| 17:48 | <zamba> aha
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| 17:48 | F-GT has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:48 | <zamba> extra security, got it
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| 17:48 | <johnny> you can of course do LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD for each machine
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| 17:49 | <zamba> yeah, but that's just extra hassle
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| 17:49 | <johnny> in lts.conf
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| 17:49 | <laga> johnny: and guestlogin is enabled by default on LTSP?
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| 17:49 | <johnny> enabled? no..
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| 17:49 | <laga> good
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| 17:49 | <zamba> i just enable that globally in lts.conf
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| 17:49 | right?
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| 17:49 | <johnny> yes
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| 17:49 | <zamba> cool
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| 17:49 | <johnny> LDM_AUTOLOGIN is what i have i think
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| 17:49 | guest just puts a button
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| 17:50 | <zamba> and then i need to set up something with pam that automatically creates a aufs mount whenever the user logs on
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| 17:50 | or unionsfs
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| 17:50 | eh
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| 17:50 | unionfs, rather
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| 17:50 | <johnny> why?
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| 17:50 | ajohnson has joined #ltsp | |
| 17:50 | <zamba> to create the writable layer ontop of a read-only home directory
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| 17:50 | <johnny> it won't be readonly
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| 17:50 | <zamba> hm?
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| 17:51 | <johnny> uhmm.. you said you wanted this for thin clients right?
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| 17:51 | <zamba> it has to be read-only, since all users will have the same home directory as the skeleton
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| 17:51 | <johnny> not the fat client
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| 17:51 | <zamba> yup
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| 17:51 | <johnny> no.. they don't need to
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| 17:51 | just create a user per machine
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| 17:51 | <zamba> yeah, that i will
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| 17:51 | <johnny> then you're good..
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| 17:51 | no aufs
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| 17:51 | <zamba> all users should have the exact same home directory, at all times
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| 17:52 | <johnny> that's not worth the hassle
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| 17:52 | i guarantee it
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| 17:52 | just rm -rf when they logout
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| 17:52 | and start over
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| 17:52 | <zamba> no, i want something to be pre-configured
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| 17:52 | <johnny> that's fine
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| 17:52 | you can do that
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| 17:52 | <zamba> like home page and default fonts and so on
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| 17:52 | <johnny> by editing skel files
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| 17:52 | and gconf defaults
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| 17:52 | that's all fine
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| 17:52 | or use sabayon
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| 17:52 | now that it finally works
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| 17:53 | <zamba> my co-system administrator at 60 can't edit skel files
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| 17:53 | <johnny> then have him use sabayon
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| 17:53 | <laga> then fire him
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| 17:53 | <johnny> get it from sbalneav's ppa
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| 17:53 | * laga hides | |
| 17:53 | <zamba> laga: this is a grammar school.. i'm doing much more than what's expected by even setting up this
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| 17:53 | <johnny> you can force the same settings.. even make many unchangable
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| 17:53 | <zamba> laga: it's mostly pro bono :)
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| 17:53 | <johnny> zamba, next time.. try not to imagine the solution ..
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| 17:53 | <laga> zamba: i guess i'm too used to the term "administrator" meaning "trained professional" :)
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| 17:54 | <johnny> focus ont the problem
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| 17:54 | because you were going to give yourself major complications
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| 17:54 | <zamba> laga: hehe
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| 17:54 | <johnny> instead of something that already exists that will solve your problem
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| 17:54 | <laga> so, sorry if i caused any offense ;)
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| 17:54 | <stgraber> good evening
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| 17:55 | <zamba> laga: no worries :)
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| 17:56 | johnny: i find very little documentation and tutorials about sabayon..?
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| 17:56 | <johnny> you do'nt need much
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| 17:56 | <zamba> oh believe me.. i do
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| 17:56 | i'm quite sure sabayon will be more than capable of messing everything up
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| 17:56 | <johnny> uhmm
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| 17:56 | then you can just delete the profile and start over
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| 17:57 | <zamba> "profile"?
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| 17:57 | <johnny> you configure it the same way you configure yoru own desktop
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| 17:57 | point and click
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| 17:57 | <zamba> i don't like that word
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| 17:57 | i'm thinking windows
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| 17:57 | <johnny> and that's fine
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| 17:57 | because that's how it works
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| 17:57 | <zamba> well.. do you install sabayon on the server, all the clients or both?
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| 17:57 | or on some other standalone computer?
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| 17:57 | <johnny> just the server
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| 17:57 | <zamba> the ltsp server?
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| 17:57 | <johnny> wherver your users are
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| 17:58 | <zamba> what's the theory of operation?
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| 17:58 | and how do you control which users should get these settings applied?
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| 17:58 | <johnny> open app.. add desktop icons, set some settings (just like if you were using it), save it
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| 17:58 | assign it to a user or group of users
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| 17:58 | and on login the profile is applied
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| 17:58 | you can even set defaults for OOo
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| 17:59 | <zamba> and can you combine this with fat clients?
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| 17:59 | <johnny> and some basic firefox things.. altho that part could be more advanced
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| 17:59 | no need
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| 17:59 | <zamba> how is it enforced?
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| 17:59 | no need? what do you mean?
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| 17:59 | i'd like to have a consistent environment, even if some users are on thin clients and some are on fat
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| 17:59 | <johnny> at that point you'd just copy a ro version of an already configured user account
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| 17:59 | <zamba> yeah, and use unionfs
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| 18:00 | as i do today
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| 18:00 | <johnny> you're insane
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| 18:00 | <zamba> i have to
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| 18:00 | <johnny> you could use nfs rw mounts for users..
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| 18:00 | <zamba> i really need someone to look over my approach in more detail
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| 18:00 | <johnny> you could configure the fatclients to use sabayon.. but you won't be easily able to customizer it from it
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| 18:01 | sabayon was meant to solve the problem you're trying to solve
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| 18:01 | go get it from sbalneav ppa and try it
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| 18:01 | it's note perfect, but it is still pretty useful
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| 18:01 | <zamba> hm
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| 18:02 | what's pessulus?
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| 18:02 | <johnny> the lockdown portion
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| 18:02 | stop people from changing backgroundsd
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| 18:02 | stuff like that
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| 18:03 | <zamba> and it's integrated into sabayon?
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| 18:03 | <johnny> yes
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| 18:03 | one reason it isn't perfect yet.. is we just now are recently starting to use policykit.. once that is widespread, sabayon will be able to lock down even more things
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| 18:04 | <zamba> where's sbalneav's ppa?
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| 18:04 | <johnny> launchpad
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| 18:04 | search his nick
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| 18:04 | my glasses broke.. i'm tryin to put em back together now..
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| 18:05 | <laga> that sucks :(
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| 18:05 | <zamba> johnny: cool, got it
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| 18:06 | going to try it on my laptop now
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| 18:06 | <johnny> zamba, sabayon developed slowed down for quite some time.. but seems back on track these days
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| 18:07 | there were some bugs i didn't know how to solve at the X level.. but somebody finally figured it out
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| 18:07 | <zamba> you're one of the developers?
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| 18:07 | Lns has joined #ltsp | |
| 18:08 | <johnny> i was.. but then got stuck.. so got busy with other stuff
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| 18:08 | but sbalneav is doing a better job than i did.. he's much better at python than i am :)
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| 18:08 | <zamba> hehe, ok
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| 18:08 | <johnny> and he uses ltsp more often than i do., so he actually has more purpose
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| 18:08 | and ways to test
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| 18:08 | i only use 3 machines atm..
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| 18:09 | i got sabayon working enough for that
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| 18:09 | <zamba> ok, last problem
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| 18:09 | all users should have a central place to store their documents
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| 18:10 | the same, central place.. nevermind problems with users deleting each other's work.. that's a non-issue so far..
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| 18:10 | it has never happened and we've been running with a central storage for nearly 10 years now
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| 18:10 | but.. the way i've solved it is by mounting a cifs share through fstab
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| 18:10 | so it's mounted whenever the computer is up
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| 18:12 | and then i've changed the documents location to point to this share
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| 18:12 | how would you do it instead?
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| 18:12 | i feel quite confident that i'm doing it the wrong way (tm) here as well :)
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| 18:13 | my confidence isn't the best atm :)
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| 18:13 | <johnny> that way seems just as good as any other to me
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| 18:13 | especially since you can customize it in one place.. /etc/xdg/user-dirs.default or whatever
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| 18:14 | <zamba> for the thin clients i'll just mount the share at the server and point all users to the same place
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| 18:14 | <johnny> yep.. via that file i mentioned
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| 18:14 | <zamba> yeah, but not for all users, mind you :)
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| 18:14 | only a specific set of users
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| 18:14 | <johnny> oh
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| 18:14 | well hopefully sabayon can help with that
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| 18:15 | <zamba> it's User Profile Editor?
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| 18:15 | oh, it is
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| 18:18 | don't think it can.. unless changes i do in the file system is replicated as well?
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| 18:19 | <johnny> all the changes you make are stored in a zip file
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| 18:19 | the only super valuable thing you can't store is a symlink sadly (
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| 18:19 | we need to move away from zipfiles..
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| 18:20 | <zamba> and i also wanted to set the default font for OOo
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| 18:20 | <johnny> that's possible
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| 18:20 | iirc
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| 18:20 | even the default save format
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| 18:20 | <zamba> yeah, i've set that
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| 18:20 | but i can't find where to change the font
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| 18:21 | <johnny> weird.. suprised that it would miss that one
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| 18:21 | <zamba> i have "Use system font", that's all
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| 18:21 | <johnny> i haven't looked at tat part in awile
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| 18:21 | and it is checked already?
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| 18:21 | if so.. try uncheck?
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| 18:21 | <zamba> nope, not checked
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| 18:22 | <johnny> guess you should make sure that bug is registered then
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| 18:22 | <zamba> hah, and i crashed it
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| 18:22 | i don't think this is production safe just yet
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| 18:23 | nah, nevermind this
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| 18:24 | <johnny> is there such a thing? lol
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| 18:25 | <zamba> well, i managed to crash it twice :)
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| 18:25 | <johnny> probably easily fixable..
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| 18:26 | <zamba> when looking at the profile.. there's a lot entries that looks like files
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| 18:26 | are they moved over the home directory?
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| 18:27 | i have here a file that's called .config/user-dirs.dirs
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| 18:27 | am i able to go in and edit this file?
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| 18:27 | doubleclicking it let's me view the contents
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| 18:28 | but i'd like to edit it
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| 18:29 | <johnny> yes
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| 18:29 | dirs isn't a registered extension.. probably should use open with
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| 18:29 | they should rename those .cfg or somethin
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| 18:29 | <zamba> hm?
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| 18:29 | i'm in user profile editor now
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| 18:29 | i know how to edit a file :)
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| 18:29 | <johnny> ok?
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| 18:30 | you said you'd like to edit it..
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| 18:30 | so do it then :)
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| 18:30 | <zamba> one sec
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| 18:30 | screenshot coming up
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| 18:31 | http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3751/screenshotprofileelev.png
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| 18:31 | <johnny> oh.. you don't edit them from there
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| 18:31 | <zamba> it looks like the profile's contents
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| 18:31 | <johnny> you edit them from within the profile
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| 18:32 | <zamba> exactly.. so where do i edit them from?
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| 18:32 | oh?
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| 18:32 | <johnny> from within the session rather
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| 18:32 | <zamba> aha
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| 18:32 | <johnny> that's just a list of what changed
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| 18:32 | <zamba> cool
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| 18:32 | then you can pretty much do whatever you want
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| 18:32 | <johnny> yep
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| 18:34 | <johnny> zamba, what i'd like to see out of the default install.. is for the profile to actually be a git/hg repository so you an deploy specific versions to users and roll back easy
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| 18:34 | <zamba> hm.. arrow keys not working when editing a profile?
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| 18:34 | <johnny> and rely on the inheritance from the vcs branches
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| 18:34 | i wish scott was here.. i'm not on ubuntu to actually use that ppa.. and i don't want to install it by hand on fedroa
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| 18:35 | <zamba> and when i edit the profile now it looks different from when i first created it
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| 18:35 | i've lost all the different links under Places
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| 18:35 | like music, documents and so on
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| 18:35 | and the icons on the desktop have lost the icon
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| 18:36 | nah, giving this a rest
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| 18:36 | hopefully it'll all work out :)
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| 18:53 | <Beer30> hey johnny... found a few more things that are keyworded
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| 18:54 | I had to add these to profile.qs to get it to build: sys-apps/util-linux, media-sound/pulseaudio, >=sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.41.8, >=sys-libs/e2fsprogs-libs-1.41.8
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| 18:55 | I kept crappy notes, so I'm not sure what depended on what.
| |
| 18:56 | but I eventually did get the chroot to build. haven't had a chance to get any further testing in though.
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| 19:00 | trying to figure out a why for ltsp-build-client to NOT build the kernel as this takes forever to build. I've added kernel_sources=none to profile.qs, but fuse fails to build because there is no kernel .config... not sure how to get around this.
| |
| 19:02 | .... if you have any sugguestions, post them here... I'm off to get some dinner. be back after bit.
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| 19:02 | <johnny> well the point of the cccache option is so building kernel is easy
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| 19:02 | enable ccache and you should only have to build it one time
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| 19:03 | anyways. you really do have to tell me what they depend on.. so we can actually do something about it.. please retry
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| 21:01 | <Beer30> johnny: running ltsp-build-chroot from scratch. I'll post my findings as I go.
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| 21:05 | >>> Emerging binary (1 of 1) sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.6.30-r4
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| 21:05 | * gentoo-sources-2.6.30-r4.tbz2 MD5 SHA1 size ;-) ... [ ok ]
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| 21:05 | openpty failed: 'out of pty devices'
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| 21:09 | <johnny> is /dev/ stuff mounted?
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| 21:09 | in the chroot
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| 21:09 | Ahmuck-Sr has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:09 | <johnny> altho sorry i can't help much atm.. my glasses broke
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| 21:09 | so i can't look at screen for long
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| 21:10 | <Beer30> dev is mounted, but there is nothing under dev/pts
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| 21:10 | oh no
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| 21:10 | <Beer30> doesn't seem to affect anything as it just continues on.
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| 21:11 | I have had to specifically bind mount /dev/pts in a chroot before.... I think it was when I was trying to use screen in the chroot.
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| 21:13 | Ahmuck-Sr has joined #ltsp | |
| 21:14 | <Ahmuck-Sr> what kind of lockdown does kde have?
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| 21:17 | <sbalneav> http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netos/article.php/3573736
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| 21:17 | kiosk mode
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| 21:18 | Ahmuck-Sr: and if you're interested, a new build of Sabayon's up
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| 21:18 | dgroos and Lns both are having success with it.
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| 21:26 | <Ahmuck-Sr> is there a way to combine the two ?
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| 21:26 | i use kde apps as well in the lab
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| 21:53 | <Beer30> does the kde kiosk tool work for kde4? I've used it for kde3 and it works well.
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| 22:04 | <Beer30> Johnny: * ERROR: media-sound/pulseaudio-0.9.9-r54 failed.
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| 22:13 | build.log: http://pastebin.com/m7e073e53
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| 22:27 | <Beer30> scratch that pastebin link. it didn't take the whole log.... here is the complete log: http://pastebin.com/m16a5daec
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| 22:30 | there is a bug, but I can't find it right now, that states that pulseaudio-0.9.9 won't build with libtools-2.2, but >=pulseaudio-0.9.15 will. ~0.9.15-r2 ~0.9.15-r51 are keyworded.
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| 22:31 | here is the bug: http://bugs.gentoo.org/269936
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| 22:31 | and the quote from Diego E. 'Flameeyes' Pettteno: libtool 2.2 does not work with 0.9.9 just 0.9.15. If you have libtool 2.2
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| 22:31 | you're either ~arch (so you should get 0.9.15) or you unmasked libtool 2.2 (and
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| 22:31 | so you should also unmask 0.9.15).
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| 22:34 | the version of libtool that is installed in the chroot is: sys-devel/libtool-2.2.6a which is ~
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| 22:41 | adding media-sound/pulseaudio to the temporary overrides in profile.qs and re-running ltsp-build-client
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| 23:07 | <johnny> ahhmm.. how did a ~ get installed
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| 23:07 | that wasn't specified
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| 23:46 | <alkisg> Good morning
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| 23:51 | <Beer30> johnny: that is what I want to know. I am going to build a gentoo box from scratch tomorrow at work and start all over from scratch.
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| 23:52 | btw, how do you get ltsp-build-client to use ccache? I don't think it has been using it all along.
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