IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

Channel log from 27 November 2007 (all times are UTC)

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05:32	<MasterOne> anybody here?
05:37	<cliebow> notreally...yet
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06:13	<ogra> heh
06:13	* ogra just discovered http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcBi3jSAsQM&feature=related
06:19	<johnny> uggh firefox
06:20	clients get power cycled, and firefox is still hanging around and wont die, is there a place i can kill the user processes before login?
06:21	hmm.. also.. where is the bzr repo for ldm now?
06:22	<ogra> nonexistent yet
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06:22	<ogra> i think vagrant stared something already
06:23	for gutsy its still the old branch
06:27	<johnny> so if we come up with an autologin fix, should i just send it to you? or what?
06:27	oh duh.. attach..
06:27	trying to get some time with a friend who knows C to help with it
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06:30	<johnny> how are submissions handled ? do you guys require some JCA?
06:31	i also want to get him to implement the piped command handling
06:31	hopefully he'll be able to do that
06:31	hmm.. i guess the last needed feature would be timed auto login :)
06:31	<ogra> just send them to one of the upstream committers
06:32	https://launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
06:32	(for ubuntu that would be me)
06:32	preferably you branch off the upstream tree and provide a mergeable branch
06:33	note that the autologin bug pretty much identifies all issues in the initial comment ...
06:33	its just a matter of someone to sit down and write the fixes
06:34	<johnny> hmm.. too many vcs :)
06:34	<ogra> only one
06:35	<johnny> i mean.. i use too many already
06:35	cvs,svn,mtn,git
06:35	previously bitkeeper
06:35	* ogra didnt use anything but bzr for more than two years now
06:35	<johnny> i work with too many projects
06:35	mtn is my favorite atm
06:36	<ogra> well, do it through launchpad ;) it has bzr mirrored braches of many upstream projects (and even if there isnt one you can just iport it)
06:37	<johnny> that's ok.. not a fan of launchpad
06:37	<ogra> (thats teh main purpose of LP ... enabling you to work with one central code database with one single vcs)
06:37	(for all free software projects)
06:37	<johnny> i'll wait til it's distributed
06:37	as in, i can host my own
06:37	<ogra> it wont be until the majority of code is included
06:37	<johnny> i know
06:38	<ogra> else it would fail its purpose
06:38	<johnny> perhaps if it was managed by some non profit.. that'd be pretty neat..
06:38	none of my contributors would currently agree to its premise atm
06:38	<ogra> is sourceforge maintained by any non-profit ?
06:38	<johnny> i don't use that
06:38	except to host downloads and leech their bandwidth :)
06:38	<ogra> or does it even use open sourfce software ?
06:39	<johnny> nope , not since awhile, last code drop was years ago i think
06:39	<ogra> always wonders why people dont complain about te closed state of SF
06:39	<johnny> i do
06:39	i don't use it
06:39	<ogra> right
06:40	<johnny> no gmail either
06:40	<ogra> but people like you are rare ... they use SF and complain about LP not being open usually
06:40	<johnny> hypocrits ..
06:40	<ogra> they== the others
06:40	<johnny> sadly i still have to use google..
06:41	* ogra doesnt see whats wrong about google
06:41	<ogra> but that might be based on the fact that i know how tey work inside and how much they invest in open stuff
06:42	did you know that every google employewe is forced to spend 20% of his worktime on his own projects (preferably open stuff)
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06:43	<johnny> true
06:43	<ogra> having some closed stuff that generates revenue to fund tons of open projects is a good thing imho
06:43	even though i like the canonical model of things more :) (else i wouldnt work for canonical )
06:44	<johnny> yeah, i dont' think i'd mind working for canonical for other reasons..
06:44	<ogra> heh
06:44	send your CV
06:44	we still look for many people
06:44	<johnny> location location location :)
06:44	i don't think it would work out if i had to move
06:45	maybe you can put in a good word to get me more ubuntu cds to distro :)
06:45	<ogra> not all of them are one the http://www.ubuntu.com/employment page
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06:45	* ogra didnt move ... and 60-70% of us work from home
06:46	<ogra> (and that even changed only recently, it was 90-95% half a year ago)
06:46	<johnny> hmm.. perhaps i'll ask you more later, outside of this channel
06:46	<ogra> sure
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06:59	<johnny> so, any ideas on where i could drop a script that would kill user processes pre ldm , but still for that specific user
06:59	?
07:00	<MasterOne> hi guys, I can now confirm, that xterminator (v0.1.4 & v0.2) is not working with an up-to-date Edubuntu Gutsy
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07:02	<MasterOne> that's a pitty, because the functionality of xterminator is quite essential, it I'd vote for including this functionality into the main LTSP5 development
07:02	<ogra> johnny, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LDMrcScripts
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07:02	<MasterOne> I already sent an email to Moquist, but he did not reply. Is xterminator unmaintained?
07:02	<ogra> just kil tehem from an rc script before th session starts
07:02	MasterOne, i dont think so, but moquist is a busy chap
07:03	and we wont include it
07:03	the apps need to be fixed which should happen until next release
07:03	its nice as an external workaround but surely not suited for upstream
07:05	a proper upstream fix wuld be to have post_session scripts for ldm that make sure there are no leftovers on logout
07:05	<MasterOne> ogra, but isn't it a general problem, that a Gnome session can be messed up, if logged in more than once?
07:05	<ogra> thats not supported at all anyway
07:05	<MasterOne> but it's actually possible, to login as the same user more than once
07:06	<ogra> next ldm version will warn you about it, we just didnt have the time for dmrc handling and "user is logged in already" warnings
07:06	<MasterOne> oh
07:06	<ogra> these two features are on top of the list
07:06	<MasterOne> that's
07:06	very important
07:06	<ogra> (ldm had a complete rewrite in the last 6 months, so we focused on basic functionallity)
07:07	<MasterOne> can it not only warn, but also logout the other session?
07:07	<johnny> or just not allow you to login
07:07	<ogra> well, lets see what we come up with... does gdm offer to kill the other session ?
07:08	we shouldnt move to far away from gdm behavior
07:08	<MasterOne> johnny, better approach is to logout the other session, if you are logged in on a machine not quite in proximity
07:08	<johnny> that's your use case, not mine :)
07:08	<ogra> well, the proper solution would be to offer migrating the session over to your new workplace ;)
07:08	but that will need plenty hacks in X
07:08	<johnny> ogra, now that would be neat
07:08	<MasterOne> that's even better
07:09	<johnny> yes.. a screen like functionality in X
07:09	<ogra> its possible already with Xmove
07:09	<johnny> seen something like that before
07:09	<ogra> but Xmove is a hackish solution (written for a thesis to proof a concept only)
07:10	nothing that will ever enter upstream
07:11	(in ubuntu we try to avoid stuff that wont be included upstream if possible ... puts a lot of work on you to maintain teh deltas)
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07:12	<ogra> the thing with xterminator is that it blindly just kills all processes belonging to a username ...
07:12	there are users that might use screen to have processes running overnight for example ... so you cant just add such a thing as a general solution
07:13	<johnny> hmm.. i just use pkill for that :)
07:13	never heard of this xterminator thing before
07:13	<ogra> it would need to really walk the processtree and only kill the session related stuff ... but nothing the user wants to keep running
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07:17	<MasterOne> now that's strange, I just installed libflashsupport on the LTSP5 server, but I still don't get audio on flash videos
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07:28	<ogra> MasterOne, but sound works on the cliets in otehr apps ?
07:28	<MasterOne> yes
07:29	I thought it should fix the problem, to just install libflashpayer
07:30	<ogra> no
07:30	libflashsupport
07:30	<MasterOne> sorry, I meant libflashsupport
07:31	so flash9-nonfree is installed and working, but no sound
07:31	then I downloaded and compiled the libflashsupport sources, which fit for ubuntu gutsy
07:31	but nothing changed
07:32	<johnny> ogra, so where can i find the exact version src of what gusty is using?
07:32	err gutsy*
07:32	for ldm that is
07:32	i have upstream in front of me, but that's not it yet :)
07:33	<ogra> MasterOne, eeek, why didnt you use the precompiled package from the EdubuntuFAQ wikipage ?
07:33	<MasterOne> I have to admit, that I don't really understand this pulseaudio setup in LTSP5: the pulseaudio server is running on the thin client, and it's not even installed on the LTSP5 server?
07:33	<ogra> johnny, https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ltsp/gutsy-ltsp
07:34	MasterOne, right
07:34	ldm sets PULSE_SERVER and ESPEAKER on login .. in the users .asoundconf.asoundrc ldm creates a virtual alsa device for th session
07:34	<MasterOne> ogra, because that package is pretty old (28th November 2006) and only i386, whereas my LTSP5 server is amd64
07:35	<ogra> this device uses the PULSE_SERVER variable to forward all alsa sound traffic to the client
07:35	so in your session you only use alsa (with the drawback that networked alsa is broken in flash and needs the workaround thriugh libflassupport until adobe decides to finally include it)
07:36	<johnny> lol
07:36	<ogra> oh, well, for amd64 you are really better off with gnash i think
07:36	<MasterOne> ogra, flash9-nonfree is working fine on amd64, except the sound issue
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07:36	<ogra> johnny, dont laugh, they are very well aware of the prob with their code since a year now
07:37	MasterOne, well, there is no libflashsupport for amd64 atm and i'm not sure someone did theeffort to make teh source multiplatform
07:37	so your mileage may vary
07:37	<johnny> hehe
07:38	MasterOne, on gentoo i'm using nspluginwrapper with amd64
07:38	<MasterOne> ogra, I compiled the libflashsupport sources just fine
07:38	<johnny> it's not as reliable, but not horrible
07:38	maybe it's my odd firefox :)
07:38	<ogra> MasterOne, i'm not sure the variable sizes etc are 64bit compliant ...
07:38	<johnny> 64bit firefox , 32bit flash
07:38	<ogra> it will surely need someone who properly understands the differences and fixes the code
07:39	did your ompiler not throw any warnings *
07:39	?
07:39	*compiler
07:39	<johnny> for ? nspluginwrapper ?
07:40	<ogra> no for libflashsupport on amd64
07:40	that was directed to MasterOne
07:41	<johnny> hmm.. good to know.. i'll check into it for any gentoo clients i setup
07:41	atm i'm not using pulseaudio on my desktop
07:41	<ogra> well, if you use *buntu you will soon
07:41	<johnny> you mean on the desktop?
07:42	my laptop is ubuntu
07:42	<ogra> apparently the desktop team decided to switch back to use a soundserver again sigh
07:42	<johnny> pulseaudio seems pretty nice
07:42	<ogra> so it will be a default app from 8.04 on
07:42	no soundserver seems nicer to me :)
07:42	<johnny> i just wish the setup was a lil less complex for desktop distros
07:42	<ogra> gutsy solved that properly
07:43	<johnny> i've just been using the alsa drivers in kernel, it's fine for my usage
07:43	<ogra> but gnome upstream (mainly driven by fedora here i think) wants to include pulse ...
07:43	<johnny> well they were using esd
07:43	<ogra> so we'll go with upstream
07:43	<johnny> so switching to pulse seems a nobrainer
07:43	<ogra> right
07:43	but just using dmix properly seems better imho
07:43	<johnny> hehe :)
07:43	yeah ..
07:43	<ogra> sund servers are so 90s
07:44	<johnny> i would like to be able to push audio to other systems tho
07:44	<ogra> they are great for networked sound though ...+
07:45	<johnny> did you ever see that diagram with all the all the sound systems that were possible and the various combinations ?
07:45	between oss, alsa, pulse,esd,jack
07:46	it's insane
07:48	<MasterOne> ogra, libflashsupport compiled fine without errors
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07:54	<johnny> so, why would one wnt to use xterminator over a simple pkill ?
07:55	atm at least
07:55	* johnny reads up again
07:55	<johnny> it sounds like xterminator does the same thing
08:09	<MasterOne> ogra, if pulseaudio is only installed in the thin client chroot, how is PulseAudio's "libflashsupport" supposed to solve the noaudio issue on the LTSP5 server?
08:09	<ogra> MasterOne, its using alsa
08:09	forget about pulse ....
08:10	its all alsa virtual devices :)
08:11	<MasterOne> I just tried something I've found on ubuntuforums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=617142
08:12	I'll reboot now, to see if this is working
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08:13	<johnny> is LDM_USERNAME available to the ldm rc scripts?
08:14	<ogra> well, thats not for ltsp setups (which install all the needed libs) apparently they are just missing essntial pieces
08:14	(libasound2-plugins is a dep of ltsp-server-standalone in ubuntu)
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08:17	<johnny> i wonder if this would work ssh -S ${LDM_SOCKET} ${LDM_SERVER} "pkill -u ${LDM_USERNAME}"
08:19	<ogra> as post session script in any case
08:20	the prob here is not to kill the just starting session if you want to clean out the stuff in advance
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08:20	<MasterOne> damned, it's not working
08:20	<johnny> hmm.. i was hoping to go before that
08:21	so the just starting session hasn't started yet
08:21	:)
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08:44	* ogra twiddles thimbs waiting for vagrant ...
08:45	<ogra> *thumbs as well :)
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08:46	<MasterOne> what a shit, I tried several different ideas, but audio with flash9 just does not want to work :(
08:48	<Gadi> ...so much for the family channel... <oh, my frickin ears!>
08:49	<sbalneav> Morning all
08:49	<Gadi> !s
08:49	<ltspbot> Gadi: "s" is Scotty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
08:50	<sbalneav> Well, now that things have FINALLY settled down at work, I'm ready to get back at it.
08:50	<jcastro> sbalneav: did you get the mail I sent last week wrt nbd?
08:50	<sbalneav> My apologies to all for being so busy the last few weeks.
08:51	jcastro: yeah, any patches we've made to nbd I automatically send to Wouter as a matter of course
08:51	<jcastro> sbalneav: <3 thanks!
08:51	<sbalneav> I'm actually subscribed to the nbd-users list.
08:51	<jcastro> you're a beacon of awesome
08:52	<johnny> ok.. guess that won't work... ssh is prolly started
08:52	so.. i wonder what else i'd have to exclude, too bad i'm not there atm
08:53	gonna have to not login and see what is running
08:53	err to login*
09:03	<ogra> jcastro, sbalneav rocks :)
09:06	<johnny> any other ideas ?
09:07	<ogra> yes, get the top pid of the old process stack and walk it down killing all procs ... its tricky but the cleanest solution
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09:12	<MasterOne> ogra, I think I'm gonna give up on audio in flash9. can it be assumed, that this issue will get fixed with a future flash-nonfree version?
09:13	<ogra> MasterOne, ask adobe ? its their bug ....
09:13	<johnny> check out the penguin blog
09:13	<ogra> but i was looking into getting libflashsupport into ubuntu universe ... which means it will have to be usable on amd64
09:13	so if i find time this release cycle i'll probably dig for a fix
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09:39	<johnny> hmm.. old process stack
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10:03	<ogra> vagrantc, !!!
10:04	<vagrantc> ogra: hey!
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10:04	<ogra> vagrantc, i took your ldm branch, removed debian and Makefile, moved the code back up one level and added mkdist ...
10:04	do you think i should pus that bit
10:04	*push
10:05	<vagrantc> ogra: may as well ...
10:05	<ogra> ok
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10:05	<ogra> sbalneav, any objections ?
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10:06	<ogra> hmm
10:06	* ogra wonders why jetpipe is still in ltsp trunk
10:06	<ogra> i thought we dropped that out
10:09	<vagrantc> i think sbalneav just created a new C based jetpipe
10:09	don't think the python one was dropped
10:09	<ogra> well, we should wipe the dir then
10:09	<vagrantc> at least, not yet
10:10	<ltsppbot> "ogra" pasted "minor ltsp-build-client fix for gui tools" (10 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/375
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10:10	<ogra> vagrantc, ^^^^
10:10	ok to add ?
10:11	(my ltsp-build-client-gtk needs a proper exitcode from the script if it fails)
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10:11	<vagrantc> yeah, sounds good to me.
10:12	* ogra pushes
10:14	<ogra> hmm
10:14	<burnerx> hmm.. i got a question about gnome-terminal
10:14	* ogra has the choice now ... create a new ldm project, or use ldm-trunk and register ldm under ltsp
10:15	<burnerx> how do i get gnome-terminal to color-code my directory and files??
10:15	<ogra> burnerx, thats really rather a question for #gnome
10:15	<burnerx> ok thanks
10:15	sorry~
10:16	<ogra> (or even for #bash since thats nothing the termonal does)
10:16	*terminal
10:18	woah !!!
10:18	seems unionfs on top of nbd was just fixed in ubuntus kernel
10:18	err
10:18	s/mbd/nfs/
10:18	*nbd
10:18	<vagrantc> ogra: works great in debian sid :)
10:19	<ogra> yeah, i saw your comment
10:19	<vagrantc> although what's really weird ... is NBD fails to mount if i boot from etherboot ... if i use pxelinux it works fine. etherboot with NFS works fine.
10:19	<ogra> i wasnt aware it was in ubuntu yet
10:20	strange
10:20	works fine in ubuntu
10:20	<vagrantc> now i want to test it on real hardware
10:20	<ogra> i know scott did a lot of tests
10:20	<vagrantc> maybe it's just some quirk of virtualbox
10:21	maybe i should try with qemu ... or use my host machine as the server rather than a virtualbox server
10:23	<ogra> qemu sounds most promising here
10:24	<vagrantc> i haven't been able to get a virtualbox server to network with a qemu vm...
10:24	<ogra> well, you likely need a tun/tap setup for that
10:24	<vagrantc> oh, i've had it set up.
10:24	i've gotten it to where qemu can talk to host, and virtualbox can talk to host, but virtualbox can't talk to qemu
10:26	<ogra> weird
10:27	<vagrantc> mostly, i've been using virtualbox's internal network for the thin clients, which works well ...
10:27	although, very slow tftp when downloading
10:28	i started with just setting up tun/tap stuff for virtualbox and qemu thin clients with the host machine as the server, and that worked well. but i want to be able to more freely break the server :)
10:29	<ogra> heh
10:29	* ogra goes to seville again in dec ...
10:29	* vagrantc misses spain a bit
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10:31	<sutula> morning vagrantc, I was trying your suggestion of using XORG_CONF = ... and it seems to ignore it. This on Etch, latest backports. Does that work there?
10:31	<ogra> vagrantc, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream :) we got ldm-trunk
10:32	<cflynt> Hi,
10:32	I've used LTSP 4.2 and am trying to install 5.0 on Ubuntu Feisty.
10:32	The ltsp-build-client script dies at:
10:32	`/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list' -> `/opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list.old'
10:32	lns: creating symbolic link `/dev/fd' to `/proc/self/fd': File exists
10:32	error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally
10:32	The server has no floppy disk, which might be the problem here.
10:32	Aborting at this step leaves me with no pxelinux, and possibly
10:32	other problems
10:32	I haven't been able to figure out what script is actually trying
10:32	<vagrantc> sutula: latest backports being ... ?
10:32	<cflynt> to do this (grep isn't helping), so I can't figure out how to work
10:32	around it.
10:32	Suggestions for where to look would help.
10:32	<vagrantc> cflynt: HEY!
10:32	!pastebot
10:32	<ltspbot> vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.
10:33	<ogra> cflynt, /dev/fd != /dev/fd0
10:33	<cflynt> Sorry. I don't IRC often.
10:33	<ogra> one is a file descriptor, the other is a floppydisk
10:33	<sutula> vagrantc: 5.0.31debian2~0.etch.1
10:33	<cflynt> ogre: Thanks. At least that's not the problem.
10:33	<vagrantc> sutula: not true :P
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10:34	<ogra> cflynt, make sure /opt/ltsp/i386 doesnt exist before running ltsp-build-client and that proc isnt mounted in the chroot
10:34	<sutula> vagrantc: Sounds like I need to update...anyway, should XORG_CONF work there?
10:34	<vagrantc> sutula: oops. it's X_CONF
10:34	<ogra> heh
10:34	<sutula> vagrantc: k, trying
10:34	<ogra> that happens if we change the default var names :)
10:34	* vagrantc spent some time convincing to switch from XORG_CONF to X_CONF
10:35	<vagrantc> so it's ironic that i'd forget
10:35	<ogra> not even the person who changed it remembers it correctly :)
10:35	<cflynt> ogra: Thanks - testing...
10:35	<vagrantc> well, the change was from XF86CONFIG_FILE -> XORG_CONF -> X_CONF
10:35	maybe we should just put a one-line compatibility patch in for XORG_CONF ... even though it was short-lived
10:36	<ogra> cflynt, also make sure that you never had ltsp 4.2 running on that machine (you said you used it already) thats causing trouble
10:36	vagrantc, feel free :)
10:36	<vagrantc> sutula: X_CONF should work even with the version you have
10:36	<sutula> vagrantc: OK...trying now
10:37	<vagrantc> sutula: also, when you get a chance, please let me know how the 5.0.39debian1* backport works ... i tested it some, but it's always good to have other people break it :)
10:38	<sutula> vagrantc: Woot! My Elo touchscreen (serial) is working on a client!
10:38	<vagrantc> nice.
10:38	<sutula> vagrantc: OK, I'll try '39 as soon as I can
10:38	<ogra> sure it is
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10:38	<vagrantc> serial devices don't really have any sort of autodetection though... do they?
10:39	<ogra> vagrantc, which xorg creation tool do you use there ?
10:39	<vagrantc> ogra: mostly been using configure-x.sh ...
10:40	<ogra> that forcefully adds the bits needed for touchpads ;)
10:40	<vagrantc> ogra: but with etch, sometimes have to switch back to the one that uses xdebconfigurator
10:40	<sutula> vagrantc: Turns out that the xserver-xorg-input-elographics in Etch is all that's necessary, plus a custom xorg.conf
10:40	<ogra> it should use /dev/wacom iirc
10:41	<sutula> The autodetection added wacom stuff and touchpads, both of which didn't work
10:42	<ogra> ah, no elographics was the one not using /dev/wacom (which seems to be a quasi std.) but even better uses /dev/input/mouseX
10:43	* sutula is a happy camper, anyway
10:45	<vagrantc> sutula: do you use LDM with the etch backports ? it never seems to display the background color for me.
10:46	or, sometimes it'll display when LDM first starts, but then disappear and go white
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10:46	<vagrantc> using the etch backport packages on lenny, it works as expected.
10:47	<sutula> vagrantc: Yes, and I get white. I've used startx instead because I like the different choices Etch provided, but am needing ldm functionality so have left it the boring white.
10:47	vagrantc: Is it just an xorg thing...with backports, that's a dicey area
10:48	<ogra> vagrantc, python or C ldm ?
10:48	<sutula> C
10:48	<ogra> hmm, weird
10:49	<vagrantc> the etch backports are mostly jsut re-built for etch, with one small patch to support the older nbd-server
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10:51	<ogra> so its the pythin one
10:51	*python
10:51	<vagrantc> no
10:51	it's the packages from sid
10:51	re-built for etch
10:51	<ogra> oh, i read s/for/from/ :)
10:52	<sutula> vagrantc: I'm not sure why, but the last time I updated (5.0.31), I lost the ability to autodetect screen resolutions properly...figured it was an xorg incompatibility
10:52	K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp
10:52	<sutula> Since it was easy to override in lts.conf, I didn't track it down
10:52	<vagrantc> sutula: updating from what version to 5.0.31 ?
10:53	<sutula> vagrantc: Hmmm...let me see if I still have that detail...it was a prior backport version
10:54	vagrantc: Perhaps 5.0.8
10:55	<vagrantc> sutula: there was also 5.0.27 ... but the switch from 5.0.8* -> 5.0.27* totally changed the way X is configured by default
10:56	<sutula> vagrantc: I don't think I messed with 27, so probably .8
10:56	* sutula is looking at old bug reports now
10:56	<vagrantc> sutula: it also explains how to enable the old behavior at the bottom: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
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10:57	<sutula> vagrantc: OK...at least that behavior is explained
10:58	* sutula needs to subscribe to that wiki...every time he looks it's been changed :)
10:58	<vagrantc> after only 31 days, ltsp 5.0.39debian1 finally migrated from unstable to testing ...
10:58	all for powerpc
10:59	<sutula> vagrantc: So it's there now? That just means you have more work to do, right?
10:59	<vagrantc> sutula: heh
10:59	sutula: well, there's probably some people who are going to upgrade ...
11:00	though it'll be interesting, because there's nothing that automatically upgrades the chroot
11:00	might get some weird bug reports from that
11:00	like, i think ldminfod changed format
11:01	<sutula> Yes...I've gotten in the habit of manually checking the chroot whenever I need to update the server, but that's much more infrequent with stable
11:01	<vagrantc> i think i just figured out why sid is breaking on etherboot ...
11:02	the nbi.img wasn't updated when the initramfs was
11:02	<ogra> oh
11:02	rrright
11:02	<vagrantc> update-initramfs doesn't call the kernel hooks
11:02	<ogra> there is a bug if nbi.img exists
11:02	<vagrantc> yeah, there's that too
11:02	<ogra> yeah
11:03	mkelfimage clearly should be fixed here
11:04	<vagrantc> the other option is to mkelfimage -o $foo.tmp
11:04	<ogra> does that not choke ?
11:04	<vagrantc> and then move it if it was sucessful ... which is probably overall safer anyways
11:04	<ogra> ah
11:04	<vagrantc> well, if $foo.tmp exists, it'll still choke ...
11:05	<ogra> well, i'D prefer if the app cares for it itself
11:05	<vagrantc> well, i think both are a good thing
11:05	<ogra> mknbi apparently can ... why should mkelfimage behave different ?
11:05	<vagrantc> just in case mklelfimage fails, would be good to at least have the old image in place
11:05	<ogra> hmm
11:05	i wonder how/if mknbi handles that
11:06	but i'm to scared of the mknbi code to look at it ....
11:06	<vagrantc> heh
11:06	<ogra> all that assemble might take my eyesight
11:06	*assembler
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11:11	<vagrantc> yup, that was it. nbi.img wasn't updated
11:14	oh, i also wrote a simple little script to create an etherboot CD that automatically detects which card to use: bzr get http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/netbootcd/
11:14	<ogra> nice !
11:15	btw waht about versioning the pre releases ? i think the mkdist --force function should add a proper version string
11:16	<vagrantc> i'd actually like to do something like --version and --name
11:16	<ogra> would that be 5.0pre5.1_$date ?
11:16	well, i'm currently wondering about the name itself
11:16	<vagrantc> ah, i see.
11:16	<ogra> i dont want to get into dpg trouble
11:16	*dpkg
11:16	<vagrantc> right
11:17	* vagrantc suggests using a ~
11:17	<ogra> uuuh
11:17	nope
11:17	<vagrantc> 5.1~$date
11:17	because ?
11:17	or 5.1~rc$date
11:17	not distro-independent?
11:17	<ogra> we use that for special occurence in ubuntu ... like ~gutsy for backports or ~build1 for simply rebuilt packages
11:18	<vagrantc> you can keep tacking on ~
11:18	<ogra> hmm, right i have to learn we talk about the upstream version g
11:18	<vagrantc> i.e. 5.1~rc$date~gutsy
11:18	<ogra> i still have native packaging in my head :)
11:19	that would be a backport to gutsy ...
11:19	<vagrantc> yeah, well ...
11:19	<ogra> well, 5.1~rc$date-0ubuntu1~gutsy1 would be :)
11:19	<vagrantc> the main reason i'd object to ~ in the name is it's not distro-independent ... it's exactly what ~ is meant for in debian (and presumably ubuntu)
11:20	<ogra> yeah
11:20	no lets keep that out here
11:22	<vagrantc> could do the 5.0.99rc$date thing
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11:22	<ogra> 5.0.99rc20071127 ?
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11:23	<ogra> hmm, that will actually need a version option
11:24	<cflynt> ogra - thanks - rm -rf /opt/ltsp and redoing ltsp-build-client worked. On to step two...
11:24	<ogra> :)
11:31	<vagrantc> ogra: that is, presuming, we won't see 5.0.39-98 ...
11:32	ogra: other thing you could do is simply call it 5.0.39+$date or something
11:32	well, you've already got the 5.0.39debian1 version ...
11:32	but you get the idea
11:34	i like + as 5.0.40 > 5.0.39+$date ... at least in debian
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11:52	<lns> cflynt, you the one i was helping yesterday?
11:52	w/the tftp issue?
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12:04	<ogra> vagrantc, hmm, right i've frgotten about the debian version
12:06	vagrantc, btw, will you drop the debian suffix?
12:07	<vagrantc> ogra: my plan is to someday just grab the upstream tarball and start doing proper debian revisioning
12:07	<ogra> when is "someday" ?
12:07	* ogra thinks its the right time to make such changes now
12:08	<vagrantc> well, there's two approaches ... i can wait till upstream releases ...
12:08	<ogra> i just need to make sure it doesnt get synced over the ubuntu version
12:08	<vagrantc> or i can play upstream with bzr pre-releases ...
12:08	<ogra> we usually use -0ubuntu1 so -1 from debian overrides
12:09	<vagrantc> yes, i plan to start using -N and such
12:09	<ogra> but thats indeed not what i want
12:09	<vagrantc> the shorter the version string, the better
12:09	well, propose something and we'll talk
12:10	<ogra> well, no idea
12:10	i need to make sure my version is always higher than yours
12:10	or i need to start maintaining my stuff in debian
12:10	(which is usually to slow for me)
12:12	<vagrantc> well, my preference would be to always do upstreamversion-debianrevision
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12:13	<ogra> right
12:13	well, looks like we still have a blacklist functionallity in ubuntu for syncs
12:14	<vagrantc> our debian dirs always have significant differences, so that's probably best
12:14	<ogra> yeah
12:14	even though i'D like us to stay in sync to a certain extend
12:15	<vagrantc> indeed.
12:15	if upstream stabalizes a bit, then it should be easier
12:15	<ogra> ok, 5.0.39+20071127pre5.1 it is then for ldm and ltsp for me
12:16	thats a scary version number
12:16	<vagrantc> i was thinking of making ldm2 a different package and thus it's own versioning
12:16	<ogra> you didnt see what i did 1h ago ?
12:16	<vagrantc> i didn't look at it, no
12:16	<ogra> https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream
12:16	<dniel> vagrantc: hola :) hi!
12:16	<ogra> ldm-trunk
12:17	<dniel> vagrantc: a lot of time :)
12:17	<ogra> thats your branch from vagrant-ltsp-trunk
12:17	with some changes of mine
12:17	so we have the ldm2 branch ;) feel free to change it
12:18	<vagrantc> eeeyk.
12:18	evil mkdist.
12:18	<ogra> why ?
12:18	whats wrong ?
12:18	<vagrantc> well, it's an ancient version already :P
12:19	<warren> what is "trunk"?
12:19	<ogra> warren, the development tree
12:19	vagrantc, meh, then merge your changes
12:19	<warren> ogra, of ltsp core?
12:19	<vagrantc> ogra: in 3 different projects?
12:19	<ogra> warren, we discussed that for several days if you remember before it uploaded
12:19	warren, yup
12:20	vagrantc, in ldm
12:20	<warren> ogra, shouldn't it be called ltsp-trunk?
12:20	<ogra> warren, yeah, my bad ...
12:20	<vagrantc> ogra: i'm really not at all excited about maintaining mkdist in 3 different bzr branches.
12:20	<warren> vagrantc, get over it
12:20	<ogra> vagrantc, split it out then
12:21	its just one more step you will always have to remember
12:21	<warren> at some point mkdist wont change anymore
12:21	<ogra> warren, https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/trunk/+edit
12:21	your'e and admin too :)
12:21	*an
12:21	<vagrantc> it may not change anymore in the future, but at the moment it's changing all the time
12:22	<ogra> vagrantc, i dont see the prob to copy it over two or three branches for some weeks
12:23	<warren> I renamed it to ltsp-trunk
12:23	<ogra> sbalneav, could we move the ltspfs-upstream branch under ltsp-upstream as well ? (and your new jetpipe thng )
12:23	cool
12:23	warren, thanks
12:23	<warren> vagrantc, perfect is the enemy of good.
12:23	<ogra> dont hesitate to change stuff we're all as much admins as the others
12:23	just ping someone else so at least two people know about it
12:24	<vagrantc> yes, but if we're constantly changing things without any communication ... that's just a big waste of time
12:24	<ogra> vagrantc, do we ?
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12:25	<ogra> we could create a setup that sends diffs automatically to the ltsp-devel ML
12:25	its trivial
12:25	<vagrantc> might be a bit overkill ...
12:25	but maybe not
12:26	probably best to set up a separate list ... ltsp-devel-commits or something
12:26	<ogra> well, i'm fine if we have at least one person notified if someone uploads a change
12:26	for cross review etc
12:27	for major changes a mail should go to ltsp-devel
12:27	i.e. the change warren just did changes the url of the branch, so that should get send to the ML
12:29	* ogra sent notification mail
12:29	<warren> I don't think sending diffs to a discussion list is a good idea.
12:29	<vagrantc> ogra: my latest mkdist changes http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/split/vagrant-ltsp-trunk
12:29	<warren> Can we have a separate list for diffs?
12:30	<vagrantc> that's what i recommended
12:30	<ogra> well
12:30	we'Re only four of us atm
12:30	you can just subscribe to the branch with your LP user ... it will then get all diffs
12:30	to the mail addy you set in your LP profile
12:30	<vagrantc> well, there's at least 2-3 other people who hopefully will join us in the near future
12:31	<ogra> thats probably easier at this size
12:31	* vagrantc wishes LP would set useful mail headers
12:31	<ogra> vagrantc, as long as we have only one digit in the committers list i'D actually prefer to not have a ML
12:31	it does
12:31	at least for mutt, evo and TB
12:32	i didnt try any freaky mail proggies like gnus though
12:32	<vagrantc> it definitely doesn't for wiki commits
12:32	<warren> can launchpad provide RSS for diffs?
12:32	I would really prefer RSS
12:32	<ogra> vagrantc, wiki == mon, LP == LP :)
12:32	warren, i think it can i'l ask in #launchpad
12:34	warren, http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/atom
12:34	<vagrantc> ogra: the ldm-trunk branch isn't missing any debian revisions that i could see
12:34	<ogra> vagrantc, so what did you just tell me then ?
12:35	you said there is stuff missing
12:35	<warren> ogra, ah, that's cool
12:35	<vagrantc> ogra: all the mkdist stuff
12:35	<ogra> vagrantc, i added that before committing
12:35	<warren> ogra, merge in vagrant's improved mkdist.
12:35	<vagrantc> ogra: yes, but i've been actively working on mkdist
12:35	<ogra> ah, k
12:36	hey why should i be the merge bitch :P just commit :)
12:36	<vagrantc> i guess it'll generate a lot of conflicts, but they should be easy to resolve
12:36	<ogra> just wipe my mkdist :P
12:36	<vagrantc> heh
12:36	<ogra> i trust yours is better, mine is a basic skeleton that kind of works :)
12:36	i didnt expect to keep it i just wanted a start :)
12:36	<vagrantc> i'd like mkdist maintained as it's own project, but apparently others disagree
12:37	<ogra> well, you are free to create a branch ... and take care for it
12:37	<vagrantc> that's probably the fundamental issue at hand
12:37	<ogra> if i know i should rather commit to that one i'll do
12:38	<warren> vagrantc, perfect is the enemy of good.
12:38	vagrantc, if we make mkdist its own repo, we have to rename it.
12:38	vagrantc, somebody already made a mkdist that does something similar but is locked into svn or something
12:38	<vagrantc> warren: no we don't
12:38	warren: this can be ltsp-mkdist or whatever. i don't even think it needs to be packaged ...
12:39	<ogra> warren, LP cares for that, if oyu register mkdist under the ltsp project it doesnt matter
12:39	<warren> vagrantc, so we maintain it in ltsp-mkdist and occasionally copy it from there into the other repos?
12:39	* vagrantc doesn't see why it needs to be maintained in the other repos
12:40	<ogra> vagrantc, it doesnt
12:40	but we'll need it to roll tarballs
12:40	<warren> the entire point of it is to have the command instantly available when working in a directory
12:40	<ogra> and our definition was that it has to be the same script in al branches
12:40	<vagrantc> i thought the entire point of it was to create release tarballs ?
12:40	<ogra> right
12:40	<vagrantc> and tag releases and such
12:41	<ogra> well, thats something you can do manually as well
12:41	<vagrantc> why does it even have to be in the tarball ?
12:41	<ogra> the point was to have a unified way
12:41	<warren> Either that script goes into $PATH or it lives in ./ of each repo.
12:41	That's my requirement.
12:41	<vagrantc> why?
12:41	<ogra> to have a unified way to roll tarballs
12:41	<warren> We could delete it from each bzr export before it becomes tarballed.
12:41	<ogra> yeah
12:41	<warren> If it bothers you that much.
12:41	<ogra> that makes sens
12:41	e
12:42	its cleaner ... its one line in mkdist :)
12:42	<vagrantc> ogra: yes, i understand that it is a unified way to release tarballs, i'm not contesting that
12:42	<warren> mkdist makes no sense to be in the tarball, it doesn't work with the .bzr missing.
12:42	<ogra> vagrantc, and it should be available and the same in all branches
12:42	<vagrantc> warren: why does it have to either go in $PATH or in ./ ?
12:42	why does it need to be in the branches?
12:42	<warren> vagrantc, it must be instantly available in a uniform way to operate on the source tree
12:42	<ogra> vagrantc, because it has to be there if you roll a tarball :)
12:43	<warren> vagrantc, I'm tired of typing long commands to do that stuff.
12:43	<vagrantc> ../mkdist/mkdist
12:43	very simple
12:43	or ...
12:44	<warren> hmm
12:44	<vagrantc> mkdist BZRCHECKOUT
12:44	mkdist BZRCHECKOUT --opts
12:44	<warren> can bzr track symlinks?
12:44	<vagrantc> yeah
12:44	barbara_ has joined #ltsp
12:44	<warren> I suppose each repo can contain "mkdist" which points at "../mkdist/mkdist"
12:44	<vagrantc> but a symlink that may or may not point to the right place .. ?
12:44	<warren> vagrantc, if it really bothers you that much, this is a good compromise.
12:44	* ogra is fine with whatever you guys decide here ...
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12:45	<barbara_> installed brand new chroot and local devices are not working... what should i look at?
12:45	<ogra> barbara_, what distro? ltsp version ?
12:45	<vagrantc> warren: rather than a symlink, how about 1-2 line script that looks for ../mkdist/mkdist ?
12:45	<barbara_> edubuntu gutsy 64bit
12:46	<warren> vagrantc, heh... we're reinventing the wheel
12:46	vagrantc, this is exactly how most of RH's source repos work.
12:46	<vagrantc> well, the difference is ... "what the hell is this symlink for" vs. "oh, this is looking for something"
12:46	<warren> vagrantc, or rather...
12:46	<ogra> barbara_, ther was a bug in the ltspfsmounter script ... look for a line like: env['DISPLAY'] = 'localhost:10.0'
12:46	<vagrantc> anyways ... i've got to roll ... we can work out the details later
12:47	<ogra> barbara_, delete that line
12:47	<warren> vagrantc, the script looks for ../mkdist/ if it doens't exist, it does a bzr branch to get it.
12:47	<ogra> barbara_, /usr/sbin/ltspfsmounter that is
12:47	<vagrantc> the more complicated the script gets, the more pointless it is having a separate scriopt
12:47	<warren> vagrantc, no, this is really simple.
12:47	vagrantc, RH's souce repos do exactly this. We have a "common" repository containing tools that do exactly what mkdist does.
12:48	<vagrantc> warren: and when the checkout dir changes, we have to update it
12:48	warren: in all the copies
12:48	<warren> vagrantc, doesn't bother me.
12:48	vagrantc, there is only one copy at ../mkdist
12:48	<vagrantc> warren: well, that's the whole reason i'm not happy with copying mkdist all over the place
12:48	<ogra> well, we have to copy it if it changes in the current setup
12:48	<warren> huh?
12:48	<ogra> same in a different color
12:48	<vagrantc> lets just go with a symlink.
12:49	<warren> heh
12:49	I'm convinced a checkout at ../mkdist is better
12:49	instead of wondering what the symlink is.
12:49	although I guess a symlink is far simpler.
12:49	<vagrantc> warren: oh, checkout mkdist from within the branch?
12:49	i.e.
12:49	bzr checkout URL mkdist
12:49	./mkdist/mkdist ?
12:50	<ogra> ../mkdist ?
12:50	<warren> vagrantc, yes, but it lands in ../mkdist
12:50	<ogra> right
12:50	<vagrantc> this is just way too complicated
12:50	<warren> we do that all the time
12:50	vagrantc, it only does that if ../mkdist/ doesn't exist.
12:50	<ogra> so we have a basic mkdist that does this inside the branch and a tree that gets pulled ?
12:50	<vagrantc> warren: what does that ?
12:51	<warren> vagrantc, that's how all of RH's source repos work. If ../common/ doens't exist it checks it out.
12:51	* ogra fails to see the benefit in maintaining one piece inside the branch and one iece as separate tree
12:51	<vagrantc> my requirements: one line script or symlink.
12:51	* vagrantc concurs with ogra
12:51	<warren> one line is arbitrary
12:51	<barbara_> ogra, did that. sad to say still not working...
12:51	<warren> the piece inside the branch is like 2 lines of shell
12:51	<vagrantc> if it's a one-liner, then i'm fine with it, because we're less likely to ever need to change it
12:52	maybe even two lines
12:52	<warren> this will be 2 lines
12:52	<vagrantc> warren: and those two lines are ?
12:52	<warren> Something like: [ ! -d ../mkdist/ ] && bzr checkout URL ../mkdist
12:52	exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@
12:52	* ogra thinks that whole thing is pointless as we'll be done with mkdist befoe end of december ...
12:53	<vagrantc> warren: i like everything except the bzr checkout part
12:53	<warren> vagrantc, why?
12:53	This really isn't that hard.
12:53	and we do it all the time.
12:53	<vagrantc> warren: because when the URL changes, we have to update all our copies
12:53	<warren> vagrantc, how often will that URL change?
12:53	<vagrantc> i'd rather have it just do something like "please install ../mkdist"
12:53	<ogra> i dont expect mkdist to change much after that and i refuse to take any maintenance duties for it ... but i'm happy with anything you guys come up with
12:54	<vagrantc> warren: the "upstream" URL for ltsp has changed at least 5 times in the last 2 years
12:54	<ogra> vagrantc, we should keep it solid now with the new setup
12:54	<warren> vagrantc, only because it wasn't a real organized upstream project, what we're creating will endure.
12:54	<vagrantc> i sure hope so
12:54	<warren> vagrantc, that URL need not change
12:54	<vagrantc> but i'm not willing to maintain code
12:54	<warren> vagrantc, I AM
12:54	<ogra> well, its the whole point of what we do am :)
12:55	<vagrantc> warren: you're going to maintain all my branches?
12:55	<ogra> *atm
12:55	<warren> vagrantc, I'm willing to maintain mkdist.
12:55	<vagrantc> warren: yes, but this other mkdist wrapper needs to be maintained in EVERY branch that uses it.
12:55	i don't want to have to do that
12:56	unless i'm sure it's not going to change
12:56	and i'm not sure
12:56	<warren> vagrantc, dude, it is 2 lines
12:56	and it is not complicated at all
12:57	vagrantc, if you would prefer not using checkout there, you can maintain your own mkdist that doens't do it.
12:57	<vagrantc> [ ! -d ../mkdist/ ] \|\| echo "../mkdist not found, please check out a copy of mkdist"
12:57	exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@
12:57	<barbara_> ogra, is there a log file i can look at for when it tries to mount or another thing i need to check? 64 bit server with 64 bit clients...
12:57	<vagrantc> exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@
12:57	exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@
12:57	exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@
12:57	oops
12:57	those two lines i'll accept
12:57	er
12:57	with a patch :)
12:57	<warren> vagrantc, this fear of URL changing is really unfounded.
12:58	<vagrantc> it's founded in many years of experience with this and other projects
12:58	<warren> OK fine, let's just do this
12:59	<barbara_> it works fine at my other ltsp server with 64 bit server and 32 bit clients.
12:59	rcc has quit IRC
13:00	<ogra> just come to a conclusion, i just wiped my tarball i just did ...
13:00	<vagrantc> warren: so ... we have a grudging consensus ?
13:00	* ogra has a deadline for upstream code on dec 13th
13:00	<ogra> (in ubuntu)
13:00	<warren> vagrantc, yeah, two line script that only warns and errors out
13:01	<vagrantc> ok. since i've complained the most, i'll do it
13:01	* ogra hugs vagrantc
13:01	<warren> vagrantc, don't you mean && instead of \|\|?
13:01	<vagrantc> warren: you are, of course, free to implement your bzr version in your own projects
13:01	<warren> vagrantc, I want to use the common mkdist repo for my own projects
13:01	<vagrantc> warren: there were a few bugs ...
13:02	<barbara_> do i need to reboot server after removing that line?
13:02	<vagrantc> warren: so the mkdist repo can have ... mkdist mkdist-wrapper mkdist-wrapper-bzr ...
13:02	<ogra> vagrantc, that somewhat defeats the purpose :) we should be able to agree among all of us
13:02	<vagrantc> warren: and then you can copy the bzr variant
13:02	<barbara_> I agree ;)
13:02	<warren> ogra, does Edubuntu have a user discussion list?
13:02	<ogra> barbara_, nope, but log out the user you tries localdevices with
13:03	<barbara_> yeah already restarted the user still no go.
13:03	<ogra> warren, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
13:03	<warren> vagrantc, huh? these are different branch names?
13:03	<vagrantc> ogra: well, i think ltsp projects shouldn't use the bzr variant, but other projects that use mkdist can implement it however they want
13:03	<warren> vagrantc, if we're really making mkdist into an upstream project itself, we really have to rename it.
13:03	<vagrantc> ltsp-mkdist
13:03	there.
13:04	<ogra> vagrantc, well, indeed, but it makes merging cahnges harder
13:04	<vagrantc> ogra: well, that's on the burden of those other people's projects.
13:04	<warren> vagrantc, if I'm going to add git support to mkdist I wouldn't do it in a branch, I would put it directly into mkdist but in a way that doesn't change the default behavior for existing users.
13:04	<ogra> well in the end you sit there with the inbox full of manually made patches
13:04	<warren> vagrantc, [ -d .bzr \| && MODE=bzr
13:05	<vagrantc> ogra, warren: do you care if i ditch mkdist's revision history so far? i'm not sure how to branch and not get all of ltsp's other stuff in the .bzr dir
13:05	<warren> vagrantc, I don't care about the revision history of mkdist. let's start fresh in the new repo.
13:05	<ogra> drop it, as i said i dont care
13:05	i'm just under time constarints (especiually since hardy is a long term release and i'm not allowed intrusive changes :P)
13:05	<vagrantc> ltsp-mkdist ok for a name?
13:06	<ogra> sure
13:07	<warren> vagrantc, I might add git support to mkdist next, but it will not effect existing bzr usage at all.
13:07	<barbara_> ogra, what else should i look into?
13:07	<ogra> !localdev
13:07	<ltspbot> ogra: "localdev" is (#1) Information regarding using pluggable devices and cdroms with LTSP can be found at http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/LTSP-42-LocalDev, or (#2) for ubuntu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices, or (#3) for debian-edu: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/HowTo/LocalDeviceLtspfs, or (#4) http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
13:07	<ogra> barbara_, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebugLocalDev
13:08	walk that list down and check what fails
13:08	<vagrantc> ok, i bloated it to 3 lines ... but i think it's worth it
13:09	[ -d ../ltsp-mkdist/ ] && exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@
13:09	echo "../ltsp-mkdist not found, please check out a copy of mkdist" > /dev/stderr
13:09	exit 1
13:09	with, obvious mistakes corrected, of course
13:10	<ogra> add the branch url ?
13:10	<warren> you could put that one line
13:10	[ -d ../ltsp-mkdist/ ] && exec ../mkdist/mkdist $@; echo "../ltsp-mkdist not found, please check out a copy of mkdist" > /dev/stderr; exit 1
13:10	=)
13:10	<ogra> so people know where to check out actually ?
13:10	<vagrantc> well, the 1 line comment was mostly just a conceptual simplicity issue
13:10	of course you could cram it into 1
13:10	<warren> but don't
13:10	that was a joke
13:11	<ogra> :)
13:11	<vagrantc> ogra: well ... where to check it out ... then gets into the issue with maintaining the URL
13:11	<ogra> well for now we only have one upstream branch
13:11	<warren> oooh
13:11	can we call it mkdst?
13:11	<vagrantc> though i guess it wouldn't be fatal if the URL got out of date
13:11	<warren> No upstream projects with name mkdst
13:11	<ogra> daylight saving time ?
13:12	<warren> I'm against vowels
13:12	LTSP is awesome
13:12	<ogra> heh
13:12	dont go to australia then
13:12	they shoot with vowels
13:13	<warren> Can we call it simply "mkdst" without ltsp?
13:13	<ogra> sure
13:13	call it what you want
13:13	<warren> Can we package it and put it in $PATH?
13:13	<ogra> as long as you let me know how its called in the end g
13:13	<warren> Then it would be suitable for a lot of other things.
13:13	<ogra> meh
13:13	thats hard for me as i need it in main
13:13	<warren> Is it really a problem?
13:13	<ogra> which means a long process and lots of paperwork
13:14	<warren> ooh...
13:14	we can make it optionally in $PATH
13:14	the 3 line shell script can either run it from PATH, or complain about it missing from ../
13:14	<ogra> stuff that goes to ubuntu main needs a main inclusion report with valid reasons etc, ten a security and code review etc
13:14	*then
13:14	<vagrantc> ogra: well, you could build a local copy ... you don't need to release the tarballs as ubuntu
13:15	<ogra> i wont anyway
13:15	<warren> this is only a development tool
13:15	<ogra> i'll use the tarballs :)
13:15	<warren> users don't need mkdst
13:15	<ogra> right
13:15	<warren> ogra, vagrantc: do you like the idea of optionally in $PATH or ../mkdst?
13:15	<ogra> well, then i dont need a package :)
13:15	<vagrantc> yeah, that's why there's no development tools available for linux
13:15	<warren> let's create a new upstream project for mkdst
13:16	* vagrantc almost had the bzr checkout finished
13:16	<warren> I'll package it in Fedora for me, and other people can optionally use it in ../mkdst/
13:16	<ogra> heh
13:16	<vagrantc> now i've got to rename it
13:16	<ogra> vagrantc, well, i had a proper tarball already ... i'm more f'*cked than you :P
13:16	<vagrantc> warren: as long as it doesn't make it crazy complicated
13:16	<warren> vagrantc, hell no
13:16	<vagrantc> i just want to commit it
13:17	<warren> vagrantc, next I hope we can agree on a release.conf
13:17	<vagrantc> egads.
13:17	* ogra thinks the discussions we have a crazy complicated ... that means the code has to be easy :)
13:17	<vagrantc> wasn't i leaving a while ago?
13:17	<ogra> s/a/are/
13:17	<warren> vagrantc, even if it is a simple as "source release.conf"
13:17	<vagrantc> warren: i'd prefer .
13:17	<warren> vagrantc, it really doesn't have to run in dash...
13:18	<vagrantc> so it's POSIX compatible.
13:18	<warren> but fine
13:18	<vagrantc> heh
13:18	<warren> release.conf
13:18	NAME=name
13:18	VERSION=version
13:18	<ogra> NAME=$(basename $(pwd)) ?
13:18	<warren> ogra, no
13:18	<ogra> why ?
13:18	<warren> ogra, ltsp-trunk-VERSION.tar.gz?
13:19	<ogra> ah right we broke the naming
13:19	<vagrantc> ah hell ... i've almost got a checkout ... but i'll upload it when i get back
13:19	<warren> ogra, is it really hard to have a release.conf?
13:19	<vagrantc> then i may disappear for two weeks
13:19	<ogra> warren, not at all
13:19	<warren> vagrantc, send me what you have, I'll finish it.
13:19	<ogra> i didt get you wnated the name in there, sorry
13:19	<barbara_> shows on dmesg then I check for this file and it doesn't exist: /var/run/ltspfs_fstab
13:19	<ogra> i need to get a tarball out this week ...
13:20	so whatever you guys want, do it soon
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13:21	<ogra> (as i dont want to have to much delta to fix later)
13:21	<warren> ogra, likely I will be adding a bunch of changes real soon
13:21	ogra, for fedora
13:22	ogra, going to the list first for review, of course.
13:22	<ogra> warren, good, i dont expect much changes on the core yet though ... rather the plugins for fedora
13:23	or did you change ltsp-build-client or the other scripts significantly ?
13:23	<warren> ogra, ltsp-build-client needs significant changes
13:23	<ogra> oh ?
13:23	<warren> ogra, I will have to conditionalize or split out
13:23	<ogra> changes that cant be pugins ?
13:23	*plugins ?
13:23	<warren> ogra, mmm I'll see soon.
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13:24	<ogra> ltsp-build-client was actually written pretty distro independent so we dont need to change it if other distros want to implement it
13:24	<vagrantc> warren: http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr/ltsp/split/vagrant-ltsp-trunk for mkdist ...
13:24	<ogra> i can imagine fedora specific changes to ltsp-update-kernels (or -image if you use that)
13:25	but the other scripts should just work
13:25	<barbara_> ogra, shows on dmesg then I check for this file and it doesn't exist: /var/run/ltspfs_fstab
13:25	<scrapbunny> i am thinking of switching to the 64 bit version of edubuntu 7.10 so i can increase the memory on my server. any thoughts on if this would help?
13:25	<ltsppbot> "vagrantc" pasted "mkdst wrapper" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/376
13:25	<vagrantc> warren: and that's my wrapper script with a few comments
13:25	<warren> vagrantc, OK, I will create a new launchpad project called mkdst.
13:26	<ogra> scrapbunny, as i said in #edubuntu ... i'D stay with 32bit and just use a kernel that supports more ram
13:26	<ltsppbot> "barbara" pasted "ogra, this is result of mount attempt" (9 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/377
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13:28	<warren> scrapbunny, that's really good advice
13:28	scrapbunny, the userspace of 64bit makes it a lot more difficult
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13:31	<ogra> barbara_, that looks broken, are you logged in in the graphical display (in ldm) while trying all that ?
13:32	<barbara_> ogra, yes
13:33	ogra, fully updated server brand new chroot
13:34	ogra, sound works fine
13:36	<ogra> did ou make any changes to lts.conf yet or is that still all default ?
13:38	<ltsppbot> "barbara" pasted "lts.conf" (5 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/378
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13:41	<barbara_> ogra, pasted lts.conf
13:41	<ogra> barbara_, yup
13:41	try without setting SERVER and LDM_DIRECTX
13:41	(SERVER is only needed if the server is really dfferent from the bootserver)
13:46	barbara_, sorry, but i have ot leave (8:30pm here, i'm working since 10am) .... i'll be around during european business time tomorrow ... sbalneav and vagrantc can likely help you as well
13:46	pimpministerp has joined #ltsp
13:47	<barbara_> ok thanks for the help
13:47	<ogra> feel free to hunt me down tomorrow here ;) i'll be around
13:48	<barbara_> ok still doesn't work so i'll do that
13:49	ttyl
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14:00	<barbara_> sbalneav, do you think my issue lies with my dvd drive being sata? what is your input?
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14:09	<Gadi> hey - does anybody else have stray gnome-screensaver procs after users log out?
14:09	Ubuntu Gutsy LTSP5
14:12	<vagrantc> warren: are you creating it as a project of ltsp-upstream, or a separate project entirely?
14:12	<warren> vagrantc, separate
14:12	vagrantc, not sure how though
14:13	<vagrantc> nor am i
14:15	<ogra> https://launchpad.net/projects/
14:15	* ogra hides again
14:17	<warren> ogra, can you make it so an arbitrary team can commit to a project?
14:17	ogra, (so I don't have to create a new team)
14:18	<ogra> afaik you can make a team the owner of the project, yes
14:18	i rarely do upstream stuff in LP so the project side of things is something i dont use often
14:20	<warren> ok, I created mkdst
14:20	now to figure out how to import
14:23	<vagrantc> ogra: is it possible to merge ltsp-drivers and ltsp-upstream somehow ?
14:23	<Drakeweb> ogra: still no luck with my eon 4000 booting graphically into ldm (or anything else for that matter!) I'm currently stick with a shell.
14:23	stuck
14:23	<vagrantc> ogra: oh nevermind ... another time
14:24	<ogra> vagrantc, if we merge them all users are committers
14:24	vagrantc, i'd like one to be a subteam of the other to make sure only committers can commit
14:24	<vagrantc> ogra: ah.
14:25	<warren> oh
14:26	<ogra> preferably ltsp-upstream should be the coders only with commit rights and ltsp-drivers should be a more general team
14:26	<warren> huh?
14:26	<ogra> like the "government" and the executive :)
14:26	<warren> I don't understand that
14:26	concretely, who is ltsp-drivers?
14:27	<ogra> it was the team that was able to approve ltsp specs
14:27	so actually decide on the development direction etc
14:27	we didnt use it for quite some time
14:27	<vagrantc> and for a tiny window of time, it was also where the upstream ltsp branch was hosted
14:27	<warren> which team should I allow mkdst commit access?
14:27	<vagrantc> but in practice that never really happened
14:27	<ogra> warren, ltsp-upstream
14:28	ltsp-upstream should act as ACL for all the branches we maintain as upstream team
14:28	-drivers is more a political thing
14:28	* warren doesn't understand the difference.
14:28	<ogra> jim wont code but still is upstream and surely can veto out everything we do
14:29	he owns -drivers
14:30	* warren still doesn't get why he doesn't have ltsp-upstream, if unused
14:30	<ogra> ??
14:31	can you rephrase that
14:31	<warren> Put jim in ltsp-upstream, even if he doesn't use it.
14:32	* vagrantc polls https://code.launchpad.net/mkdst/
14:33	<ogra> warren, well, i initially wanted to use -drivers but somehow people unknown to me started to show up there and jim couldnt tell me either wh the guy was ... that was the init of -upstream since i wanted a controlled ACL
14:34	we can drop -drivers if jim agrees ... i dont really mind, but since it was there i thought we could just have a bit differentiation in governing and coding ... probably documentation later
14:34	<warren> ogra, the only person you don't know there is Patrice Dumas
14:34	ogra, he will prove to be very useful
14:34	<ogra> right, do you know him ?
14:34	<warren> yes
14:34	<ogra> ah
14:35	well, nobody could answer me whn i was about to create the branches
14:35	not even jim and scott
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14:36	<vagrantc> isn't there a way to find out who added who to the project/
14:36	?
14:36	plamengr has quit IRC
14:38	<ogra> sure
14:39	you should have mail about that actually ... since yu are a team member since the beginning
14:39	<cliebow> Drakeweb:can you come up with a pc id for the vid card??
14:39	<ogra> vagrantc, beyond that only the team admin can add users here, its a moderated team
14:39	BadMagic has joined #ltsp
14:39	<ogra> so it must have been jim
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14:40	<Drakeweb> not sure how I do that ...
14:41	<cliebow> if you have a shell on thew client lspci -vvv wil show what slot the thing may be "in"
14:41	<Gadi> guys, I have a user logging in who gets stuck at: xrdb -merge
14:41	<cliebow> lspci -n will give youe the pci id of the device in the slot
14:41	<Gadi> just switched from DIRECTX back to without
14:41	any thoughts?
14:42	<cliebow> i have no thoughts...but Hi! GAdi!!
14:42	<Gadi> hey, cliebow
14:42	<cliebow> sounds like you are in the trenches today..
14:46	<Drakeweb> Cyrix Corp. video 5530 [kahlua]
14:46	got that from a standard lspci
14:47	<warren> oh goody
14:47	mkdst can use mkdst to release itself.
14:47	<Drakeweb> the lspic -n gave me a whole list of numbers
14:47	warren: is that like personal gratification?!
14:47	sorry about that ...
14:48	<warren> ok
14:49	<Drakeweb> cliebow: it's on-board graphics, not a pci card
14:49	<cliebow> Gadi wasnt the kahlua what we saw oin the blasted netvistas??
14:50	* warren can't parse cliebow
14:50	<cliebow> no one can...
14:50	/oin/in
14:51	Drakeweb..if so the nsc driver is the one to try
14:51	<Drakeweb> what do i put in my lts.conf?
14:52	Gadi has left #ltsp
14:52	<cliebow> xserver=nsc
14:52	<Drakeweb> I'll give it a go
14:52	anything else?
14:52	screen sizes etc?
14:52	<cliebow> cant any more than blow all to hell
14:53	um..i dont think you will need em..
14:54	there is also a cyrix driver but i never could get any rise from it
14:54	<Drakeweb> what do i put for screen_02 etc.?
14:55	<vagrantc> Drakeweb: either comment out all SCREEN_NN entries, or SCREEN_07=ldm
14:55	<cliebow> lesse..in ubuntu it is back to screen_07=
14:55	heh
14:55	do what monsieur vagrantc says
14:56	<Drakeweb> vagrantc: sorry, do you mean comment out the 07=ldm, or leave that in?
14:56	<cliebow> should defasult to the right stuff if asll is commented
14:56	<Drakeweb> okdoky
14:56	<vagrantc> Drakeweb: by default, there's no SCREEN_NN entries in lts.conf
14:56	<Drakeweb> hang on a bit
14:56	* cliebow cliebow pries the s key AND the caps lock key off keyboard
15:00	<Drakeweb> ho hum - no go.
15:00	i got a CLI login
15:00	<cliebow> ??well then trsy startx from there..
15:00	Balls!
15:00	<Drakeweb> can't log in
15:00	<vagrantc> Drakeweb: could you paste your lts.conf to the pastebot?
15:01	<Drakeweb> sure, but there's nowt in it
15:01	<vagrantc> nowt?
15:01	<cliebow> i dont want to put you thru enabling a root acct on there
15:01	<Drakeweb> currently, XSERVER = nsc
15:01	<cliebow> he must be a scotsman
15:01	<Drakeweb> that' it
15:01	nowt is yorkshire!
15:01	<cliebow> oh..sorry
15:01	you are right
15:01	<Drakeweb> I'm not, but it is.
15:01	<vagrantc> Drakeweb: you'll probably need to specify X_COLOR_DEPTH=24
15:02	or 16
15:02	<Drakeweb> tried that, but not with the nsc server
15:02	<vagrantc> which i thought was in the default configuration
15:02	Drakeweb: yes, well, that's important :P
15:02	<Drakeweb> ok, retrying with xserver=nsc and the color depth thingy
15:05	bugger all
15:06	<ltsppbot> "cliebow" pasted "netvista pos lts.conf" (16 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/379
15:06	<Drakeweb> i get a "failed to detect sound module" error
15:06	then a couple of module errors
15:06	then a CLI login
15:06	<cliebow> nothing there tohelp i suppose anyway..
15:07	this is gytsy??sure you are editting the right lts.conf?
15:07	<Drakeweb> /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386
15:07	<cliebow> seems like you have SOUND=yes in there somehwere
15:07	yep..
15:08	<vagrantc> SOUND defaults to True
15:08	if not specified
15:08	<cliebow> ok
15:08	<Drakeweb> not worried about sound at the mo
15:09	<vagrantc> well, if not specified and the appropriate software is present
15:09	<cliebow> it sounds like it is not even trying to startx
15:09	what module errors??
15:10	<vagrantc> Drakeweb: specify SCREEN_07=ldm SCREEN_08=shell
15:10	Drakeweb: and then see if it's actually configuring /etc/X11/xorg.conf
15:10	* ogra pops in for a last time ...
15:10	<vagrantc> Drakeweb: do you have any other thin clients to test with? do they work?
15:11	<Drakeweb> I have a netvista 2200, but that is doomed to failure. I can PXE boot my laptop, amd that's fine
15:12	<ltsppbot> "cliebow" pasted "section of xf86-netstation for netvista" (8 lines) at http://pastebot.ltsp.org/380
15:12	<cliebow> Drakeweb..See??? same dang chip as netvista
15:13	<ogra> did you try running startx in a shell ?
15:14	an see what it throws out
15:14	<cliebow> he hasnt an acct enabled..
15:14	<ogra> SCREEN_07=shell
15:14	:)
15:14	and then startx manually
15:15	and see what the output is
15:15	<cliebow> hm..i am still in the dark ages
15:15	<Drakeweb> could not mmap frambuffer
15:15	framebuffer
15:15	error 104
15:16	I know this is lame, but I'm using the same monitor for my client and server, so have to keep switching the lead to view each screen
15:16	<cliebow> the human kvm like me..
15:16	<vagrantc> ogra: would you be opposed to, in ldm-trunk: bzr rm themes/Debian themes/*ubuntu ?
15:17	barbara_ has quit IRC
15:17	<ogra> vagrantc, only if you dont keep them anywhere :P
15:17	<cliebow> be back from home...
15:17	<vagrantc> ogra: i am opposed to having them in upstream sources
15:17	<ogra> vagrantc, fine with me, i just dont want to loose them completely ...
15:17	<vagrantc> ogra: that's what revision control is for :P
15:18	<ogra> well, i should have a copy somewhere
15:18	so fine. go ahead
15:18	<vagrantc> wahoo! :)
15:18	<ogra> :)
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15:18	<ogra> Drakeweb, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg ... answer the questions and run startx again
15:19	<Drakeweb> that's on the client, right?
15:19	<ogra> if that works save the xorg.conf to a usb key and use that one in the chroot as static confog
15:19	right
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15:29	<vagrantc> hmmm... my mkdist is broken
15:30	<Guaraldo> sbalneav: Are you there?
15:32	<Drakeweb> no go, but different errors depending on which driver chosen. I'm gonna call it a night and try that config routine in depth tomorrow - thanks for the help
15:35	<vagrantc> oh, nevermind ... mkdist is working fine...
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18:45	<alkisg> Hi, I've folllowed the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWithoutNFS to make my Edubuntu Gutsy work with NFS, for testing purposes, but now I get "read error: permission denied" from the clients. Any ideas?
18:46	Do I have to modify /etc/hosts and put: /opt/ltsp/i386 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0(ro,no_root_squash) ?
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20:27	<snazm> Hi folks
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21:46	<dan__t> Daaaaaamn
21:46	Crazy last few weeks.
21:46	'evening, vagrantc.
21:47	<snazm> Crazy busy or crazy dancing goldfish?
21:47	<dan__t> little bit of both
21:48	<snazm> lol
21:48	<dan__t> Took some negative energy introduced by two women who no longer want to spend time with me, into a positive movement.
21:48	It's fantastic.
21:48	I should get burnt like that more often.
21:50	<snazm> :-\|
21:50	I daren't ask
21:51	<dan__t> I have very little respect for liars and cheaters.
21:52	What I find odd, is, when women find out that you know what kind of tricks they're up to, it's your fault.
21:52	I could give a flying F. They're wrong, I'm right. I'm done.
21:52	<snazm> :-\|
21:52	This is gripping
21:52	Carry on
21:52	<dan__t> haha.
21:52	I'm sure I've made enough eyes roll. I'm done.
21:52	<snazm> My only advice on women is to avoid them at all costs until you're cornered then just lie through your teeth
21:53	Same advice also goes to the tax inspector
21:53	<dan__t> Noted.
21:54	Oh well. I'm young. As with binge drinking, I get over it quickly.
21:54	'evening, mr. warren.
21:55	<snazm> Binge drinking lol
21:55	<warren> hello
21:55	<dan__t> How goes it?
21:55	<warren> I've been dealing with some major technical issues elsewhere of higher priority so haven't made any progress.
21:55	on LTSP
21:55	<dan__t> No worries at all, just wanted to touch base with you and let you know I'm still here.
21:57	Did some more research on GFS+GNBD to wet my pallet over incorporating any further progression into C5 in an effort to take over the world.
21:58	<warren> GNBD is a non-starter because it isn't upstream.
21:59	<dan__t> Sure it is.
21:59	Er, in EL.
22:00	Diving into a complimentary package wouldn't be out of the question down the road, I'm sure.
22:01	Doesn't matter, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
22:04	<warren> dan__t, I mean GNBD has no future.
22:04	dan__t, it probably wont be in RHEL6
22:05	dan__t, it is completely absent from all Fedora's leading up to RHEL6
22:05	<dan__t> Er... I'm talking about global network block device.
22:05	<warren> yes
22:05	I'm talking about that
22:05	it has no future
22:05	it was written for RHEL5
22:05	and after that became completely unmaintained
22:05	<dan__t> GNBD is going away after RHEL5?
22:05	<warren> well, I don't know for certain
22:06	but the official party line is everything for RHEL6 goes into fedora first
22:06	that's how we make sure everything gets thoroughly tested
22:07	dan__t, it isn't like a userspace package that likely continues working. GNBD relies on a kernel module.
22:07	the kernel has changed substantially since RHEL5
22:08	<dan__t> News to me, and to be quite honest, I don't think that's going to happen, considering the push that RH is making, especially in regards to the way that they are pushing shared storage.
22:09	<warren> I'm making an inquiry as to why the hell they aren't testing it in Fedora.
22:10	<rjune> warren: why who isn't testing it?
22:10	<warren> rjune, it cannot be tested if it isn't included in Fedora.
22:10	<rjune> let me rephrase, why who isn't testing what?
22:11	<warren> rjune, RHEL5 was a branch of Fedora 6. RHEL6 will likely be branched from Fedora 9. We stabilize all technology in Fedora releases before they go into a commercial product.
22:11	<rjune> warren: I'm aware of this, I was around for fedora creation.
22:12	I even have/had ops in #fedora.
22:12	<dan__t> I was born then, right?
22:12	;)
22:12	<warren> rjune, talking about GNBD
22:12	<rjune> ok, why is it you want to test gnbd in fedora?
22:12	s/why/who
22:12	<warren> whoever wants to
22:12	including us
22:12	if we intend on shipping it in RHEL6
22:13	<rjune> I don't do much terminal server stuff anymore, I don't get paid to. Now I build routers. Fully half the full time devs of LTSP use Ubuntu and so don't care about fedora
22:13	well, don't care might not be right, but it's not a high priority
22:14	<jcastro> warren: !!!
22:14	<warren> rjune, OK, you're stating the obvious, how is this relevant?
22:14	<jcastro> o Thanks to a patch from Intel, the Bonjour prpl now supports file transfers using XEP-0096 and XEP-0065. This should enable file transfers between libpurple clients and Gajim clients, but will not work with iChat or Adium as they use a different file transfer implementation.
22:14	I was right! (eventually)
22:14	<warren> jcastro, yeah, I saw tht.
22:14	<jcastro> that's from the pidgin 2.3 changelog
22:14	<dan__t> Oh great, look what I started.
22:14	<rjune> You asked why they aren't testing it in fedora.
22:14	<dan__t> You all hate me.
22:14	<warren> jcastro, already in Fedora 7 and 8 =)
22:14	<rjune> half of the devs dont' caer.
22:14	<jcastro> cool
22:14	<rjune> dan__t: we love you
22:14	<dan__t> <3
22:15	<warren> rjune, we weren't talking at all about anything relevant to LTSP dev
22:15	<rjune> ah. I understand now.
22:15	* vagrantc doesn't use ubuntu
22:15	<rjune> I assumed the conversation was with in the context of #ltsp
22:15	<dan__t> Just to be clear, my interests in helping are to get LTSP functional under EL5, hopefully (warren?) EL6, as to provide a cost effective and rapid deployment procedure for scalable web clusters and appliances. I'd like to help the project as a whole so LTSP can be used for that, as well.
22:16	<vagrantc> and i even went so far as to attempt to work on LTSP5 for fedora, even though i haven't ever installed fedora myself.
22:16	<warren> dan__t, EL6 will be totally supported
22:16	dan__t, either in RHEL6 itself directly, or in EPEL6
22:16	<dan__t> No no, just to get the story straight - I don't expect to get something for nothing.
22:16	So I'm all in as much as my time allows.
22:16	<rjune> EPEL?
22:17	extra packages for enterprise linux?
22:17	<warren> rjune, yeah
22:17	rjune, basically Fedora's packages maintained against RHEL
22:17	rjune, no overlapping, only adding
22:17	* vagrantc is really happy to see more distro's getting involved with LTSP5
22:17	<rjune> gotcha
22:17	<jcastro> vagrantc: ltsp5 gets the lotion on
22:17	<dan__t> Ok, warren - which bits would you like me to look at?
22:17	* rjune wishes he could be move involved in LTSP again
22:17	<warren> dan__t, it is likely most of LTSP5 will be in RHEL6 itself, with a few small optional pieces outside because our engineers don't like it.
22:18	dan__t, mainly ltspfs
22:18	dan__t, for me getting LTSP5 ported to Fedora 8 is the first priority
22:18	<dan__t> I'm with ya.
22:18	<warren> dan__t, RHEL5 is not my target until all features on F8 are working
22:18	because it relies on a few F8 features
22:18	<dan__t> Understandable.
22:20	<warren> brb, trying a new kernel
22:20	my ethernet card on my laptop stopped working
22:20	stupid e1000 kernel bugs
22:20	<rjune> that's no good
22:22	<dan__t> hrm
22:23	I want to get my RHCE.
22:24	warren, tell RH to make a GFS mailing list.
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22:32	<dan__t> I love you all.
22:34	<rjune> <3
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22:43	* vagrantc wonders who's been drinking and what's been drunk
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23:35	<scrapbunny> hi there, i have been googling like crazy and searching forums but this channel always seems to be the best way to find help. i really want to get a 32 station lab of dell gx110's running as clients off an edubuntu 7.10. the first few i set up ran pretty good but i am up to 15 clients and the speed is really slow now. my server has 3gig memory so i am well within the suggested specs
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23:38	<vagrantc> scrapbunny: what sort of applications are you running?
23:41	<scrapbunny> a few of the memory hogs like firefox and tux paint but even response on the basic games are slowing. i am wondering if i have a problem with programs lingering after log off
23:42	tux paint will run ok for 2 or 3 users but more than that and it is slow and will not close
23:45	on firefox i know that i had to mess with the ipv6 settings on my ubuntu 7.10 laptop to fix speed on internet so i am wondering if there are the same issues with internet speed on edubuntu server
23:50	the server is a dell power edge 1950 and i have the 32 bit setup since i only have 3 gig
23:56	did i lose you vagrant?