IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 January 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 13:17 | <aj_> Hi guys! LTSP on Ubuntu 15: diskless clients boot into initramfs: "Overlayfs: missing 'workdir'"
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| 13:17 | Any hint?
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| 14:45 | <eddytv> I'm currently running 5.5.5~r2703+p1238+201512091628~ubuntu14.04.1 with two clients. The problem is that the two clients are not booting up with the same X session config and I can't figure out why.
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| 14:46 | I'd like both clients to boot up identically, but am not sure where to go to "clean up" whatever is causing them to behave differently. The hardware of the two clients is identical.
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| 15:30 | <alkisg> eddytv: what's your lts.conf like?
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| 15:41 | <eddytv> It has the two client MAC addresses in brackets, with only three entries under each one: HOSTNAME, LDM_USERNAME and LDM_PASSWORD
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> And your user's /home/username/.dmrc files, what do they have in them?
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| 15:42 | <eddytv> Just [Desktop] / Session=xfce
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| 15:44 | <alkisg> This defines the session in the first user. Does the second user have the same session too?
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| 15:44 | <eddytv> Yes, but clients aren't active at the same time, they're just in different locations in the house.
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> And when you say they have different x session configs, what do you mean? What do you see different?
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| 15:46 | <eddytv> One client automaticall opens an XTerm and has the correct X resolution (100 dpi) and looks "normal".
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| 15:47 | The other client (identical hardware) doesn't open the XTerm and has a much bigger dpi so the fonts are HUGE.
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| 15:47 | <alkisg> Do they both show the xfce desktop?
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| 15:47 | <eddytv> I just can't figure out why they are behaving differently.
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| 15:48 | Yes. The Xfce desktop background, menu config, etc. are otherwise the same.
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| 15:48 | <alkisg> Then it's not a matter of xsession config, and it's not a matter of ltsp,
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| 15:48 | it's just a matter of how these users customized their xfce session
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| 15:48 | For that part, ask in #xfce
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| 15:48 | It would be from the desktop properties etc
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| 15:49 | <eddytv> But if they're both using the same credentials, how are they being differentiated?
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> So you only have one user, not two?
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| 15:49 | <eddytv> Correct
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| 15:49 | <alkisg> For example, for gnome, there's .config/monitors.xml, which has settings on a per-monitor basis
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| 15:50 | Ask in #xfce for the similar config file
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| 15:50 | <eddytv> OK. Would the sound configuration also be affected? One of the clients boots up with a sound device "muted" and I have to manually run alsamixer each time to un-mute that device.
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> alkisg: anything new to test for LTSP/LDM/epoptes?
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> Pulse saves sound settings on .pulse, yes on a per-output basis
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| 15:51 | eddytv: but you can also run commands to unmute audio in lts.conf
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| 15:52 | Hi vagrantc, ltsp and ldm are ready, while Phantomas has just finished the last touches for epoptes,
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| 15:52 | <eddytv> Oh, I didn't realize that. That would be helpful. Do you have an example of doing that handy?
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| 15:52 | <alkisg> not sure if he's pushed them yet or if he will do so today/tomorrow
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| 15:52 | See the lts.conf manpage
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| 15:52 | !lts.conf
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| 15:52 | <ltsp> lts.conf: (#1) http://manpages.ubuntu.com/lts.conf, or (#2) lts.conf manpage is available in the ltsp-docs package
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| 15:52 | <vagrantc> alkisg: ok, cool. will do some more testing and hopefully upload
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I was thinking for epoptes, it would be nice if Phantomas prepared the changelog etc, and you only uploaded it, so that he gains some experience "points" for DM...
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| 15:53 | <vagrantc> alkisg: works for me
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| 15:53 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 15:54 | <vagrantc> be sure to run lintian on the build beforehand, though
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| 15:55 | <alkisg> Sure
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| 15:58 | <eddytv> alkisg: I didn't find any references to audio in the lts.conf man page, but a google search did turn up: http://chrisjrob.com/2009/02/17/ltsp5-sound-client-unmute-fix/
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| 16:01 | <alkisg> eddytv: it's not the correct approach, the ltsp way to arrange the volume is described in the lts.conf manpage
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| 16:01 | Did you search for "volume" inside the man page?
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| 16:02 | <eddytv> Ha, I did not. Thanks.
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> That person is using a custom script which isn't needed, as ltsp already has a script like that (better, actually)
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| 16:03 | <eddytv> Excellent. I was searching for stuff like "mute" and "audio".
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| 16:04 | <eddytv> So my particular problem is that the "S/PDIF" sound channel/device defaults to being muted, which prevents audio from going out the HDMI port.
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| 16:05 | Are there ways to adjust "arbitrary" sound devices besides PCM/Front/CD/Mic?
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: re-added memtest86+.bin code, heh. :)
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| 16:05 | <alkisg> :)
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| 16:05 | It was as simple as changing the keyword :)
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| 16:06 | eddytv: yes, just use the variable that corresponds to your audio device
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| 16:06 | <vagrantc> i remember when i dropped support for it, we had discussed just dropping it since it wasn't really all that ltsp related
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| 16:06 | <alkisg> LTSP has dynamically named variables there
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| 16:06 | vagrantc: yes, then I asked in #syslinux and they told me that we were using the wrong keyword
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| 16:07 | Since we know it's a kernel, we should be using the kernel keyword, not the generic one (don't remember the names now)
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| 16:07 | linux, not kernel
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| 16:08 | The kernel keyword means "use autodetection based on the extension etc"
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| 16:08 | While we don't want autodetection for memtest
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| 16:08 | <eddytv> alkisg: thanks for the pointers. At least I have some ideas on how to move forward now.
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| 16:08 | <alkisg> np
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| 16:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: cool.
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| 19:16 | <Dave___> I was wondering specifically which Thin Client hw is supported by LTSP v5: HP?, Dell? (Sorry I new to this)
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| 19:17 | Is there a list of Thin Client hardware that has had success?
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| 19:22 | <Hyperbyte> Dave___, basically, it depends on the Linux distribution you're using for your client.
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| 19:22 | <Dave___> oh
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| 19:22 | Ubuntu
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| 19:22 | <Hyperbyte> Well, if the clients work with regular Ubuntu, they should work with LTSP.
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| 19:23 | LTSP is a way of booting Linux over the network on clients without a harddisk
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| 19:23 | <vagrantc> Dave___: any computer that can PXE boot over the network is in theory a candidate for an LTSP client, you don't *need* hardware specifically designed as a thin client
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| 19:23 | <Hyperbyte> LTSP itself doesn't have specific hardware that is or isn't supported, it depends on what the Linux distribution does.
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| 19:24 | <Dave___> I was thinking of purchasing some HP Thin client, but they were imaged for Windows. I wanted the thin client to be ubuntu. Is the away to change the embedded images on these HP units
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| 19:24 | <Hyperbyte> Dave___, why were you considering the HP clients?
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| 19:25 | <Dave___> It was the first one I saw. seemed to be reasonably priced. on fixed income
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| 19:26 | <Hyperbyte> They're quite expensive most of the time actually.
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| 19:26 | <Dave___> oh
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| 19:26 | <Hyperbyte> You are going to use thin clients, rather than fat clients?
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| 19:26 | You have a powerful computer to use as server?
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| 19:26 | <Dave___> I thought that would work. managing one resource providing system
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| 19:27 | so yes: thin client
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| 19:27 | <Hyperbyte> Both thin and fat clients have that.
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| 19:27 | <Dave___> is that a bad choice
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| 19:27 | What would you suggest to a newbie, as myself
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| 19:28 | <Hyperbyte> Thin client: boots Linux, logs in to the server and starts the entire desktop on the server, thus not using any of the client hardware. It does require a fast network, gigabit preferably, especially with higher screen resolutions.
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| 19:28 | Fat client: boot Linux, logs in to the server, but starts the entire desktop on the client (like a normal computer would), so it uses all of the client hardware and doesn't strain the server. Doesn't require a lot of bandwith per say, depending on your image size and how active your users are.
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| 19:29 | <Dave___> hmmmm
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| 19:29 | my network is 100mb
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| 19:29 | cat 5
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| 19:29 | <Hyperbyte> So it's either: start all software remotely, transmitting input/output over network between client and server
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| 19:30 | Or start all software locally, using the server's image instead of a harddisk.
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| 19:31 | <Dave___> With a network that I'll probably not re-wire for sometime what would you say?
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| 19:31 | I've only a need for less that 9 clients
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| 19:32 | <Hyperbyte> I use thin clients one at a company for ~15 clients, with a very powerful server. Dual Opteron, 32 GB RAM... it's on purpose there, because we don't want noise from running computer fans, or heat generated by the components in our offices.
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| 19:32 | -one
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| 19:32 | For another company, with about ~10 clients, I use fat clients because they don't have a powerful server and have more powerful client hardware.
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| 19:33 | <Dave___> Ok, so I need a very high end LTSP server?
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> if you're unsure, i'd recommend finding some reasonably priced computers and go with fat clients
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| 19:33 | the server requirements for fat clients are very minimal
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| 19:33 | <Dave___> sorry, I'm a slow typist
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| 19:33 | <vagrantc> you can use just about any old computer
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| 19:34 | <Dave___> That sounds great.
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| 19:34 | <Hyperbyte> Dave___, also, nothing is stopping you from trying both.
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| 19:34 | <Dave___> Where can I learn more about the "fat Client"
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| 19:34 | <Hyperbyte> If you use ltsp-pnp, you can switch been thin/fat clients with a simple configuration option.
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| 19:35 | <Dave___> I'm assuming this site here: LTSP
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| 19:35 | <Hyperbyte> You could even say in the config "this client has only 512 MB ram, so it has be thin else it won't run, but the rest can be fat"
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| 19:35 | <vagrantc> !ltsp-pnp | echo Dave___
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| 19:35 | <ltsp> Dave___ ltsp-pnp: ltsp-pnp is an alternative (upstream) method to maintain LTSP installations for thin and fat clients that doesn't involve chroots: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ltsp-pnp
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| 19:35 | <Dave___> ok, I see I need to up my education here.
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| 19:36 | <Hyperbyte> Dave___, my advice, start trying things before you buy clients.
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| 19:37 | <Dave___> Okay, but when you mean trying things. Does that mean find some old equipment and try to apply the LTSP environment on them.
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| 19:37 | <Hyperbyte> Do an installation... get some random PC which you can reinstall, or boot Ubuntu from a USB stick even, and set up an actual LTSP server. Then try out thin, try out fat...
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| 19:37 | Yes.
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| 19:38 | <Dave___> Okay. I think I can do that
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| 19:38 | <Hyperbyte> Then you can experience what bottlenecks are... generally speaking it's either the client, the server or the network. If you have 100mbit, it's not unthinkable network could be a big factor.
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| 19:38 | <Dave___> Do you know of any useful reading material
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| 19:38 | <Hyperbyte> Dave___, wiki.ltsp.org
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| 19:39 | <Dave___> Of course. Dahhhh
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| 19:39 | <Hyperbyte> And you can always stick around here, ask questions, chat...
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| 19:39 | <Dave___> Thank you. so much
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| 19:39 | <Hyperbyte> Sometimes it takes a while to get a reply, but eventually you will.
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| 19:39 | You could install an IRC client on your computer so you don't have to use the webinterface even.
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| 19:40 | <Dave___> I really appreciate this. Much thanks. Truly Dave H
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| 19:40 | <Hyperbyte> You're welcome. Hyper B.
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| 19:40 | <Dave___> I'll be back after a little more reading and experimentation.
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| 19:40 | Thank you!
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| 19:40 | Ciao
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