IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 19 December 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:13 | <mip5> Hyperbyte: the graphics card in my thin clients were not responding properly - I could only get 1024x768 resolution, but the monitors are wide screened, and everything was stretched. That issue is gone, but I have this new one to contend with now.
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| 00:16 | <Hyperbyte> mip5, what happens when you
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| 00:16 | !quiet-splash
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| 00:16 | <ltsp> quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7
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| 00:20 | <mip5> Hyperbyte: wow - some stuff scrolled by, but the login screen appeared without any jumping between ctrl-alt-f1 and ctrl-alt-f7 - let me try it on another machine, as I had a special stanza in lts.conf for this one.
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| 00:22 | Hyperbyte: Strange. The stuff that appears to be relevant (regarding terminal) scrolls by too quickly for me, and it's the last thing to roll by before the login screen. It's working now though, which is great.
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| 00:27 | <mip5> Thanks for your help - I'll have to figure out what's going on, but I'm glad that it's easy to make work now. The students would have had a hard time with the other startup sequence that was required to get a graphical login!
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| 09:03 | <fuzai> I keep trying to set the color depth in lts.conf, but no matter what i set it seems to be in 16 bit color. Ubuntu 12.04.01 amd64 host i386 client nvidia closed source drivers with recent video cards
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| 09:04 | Is there some trick i'm missing to get a client to acknowledge the change?
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| 09:06 | and does anyone know why with nvidia cards i don't have bootsplashes, ati's seem to show it just fine with the same image
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| 09:07 | <work_alkisg> X_COLOR_DEPTH=32 or 24, X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=false
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| 09:07 | <fuzai> I had the first one
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| 09:07 | <work_alkisg> Closed source drivers don't support KMS and thus don't show splash
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| 09:07 | <fuzai> I didn't know about the 2nd variable
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| 09:07 | ok cool i thought it was something like that
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| 09:08 | <work_alkisg> There was a bug wrt the first one, did you recently update your chroot?
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| 09:08 | <fuzai> yea
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| 09:08 | i'm in development so about every other day i update it
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| 09:08 | <alkisg> It should be working then
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| 09:08 | <fuzai> i didn't have that X_SMART_COLOR
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| 09:08 | i bet that is what is causing the problem
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| 09:09 | <alkisg> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/1010198
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| 09:09 | Fix released, it should be working without X_SMART_COLOR
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| 09:09 | <fuzai> also i seem to have no problem with flash video unless i full screen it, i'm not using compiz anywhere and flash is running out of firefox that is installed ( and running ) as a local app
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| 09:10 | X_COLOR_DEPTH=32 in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 09:11 | i tried with 24 as well and it did the same thing
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| 09:11 | <alkisg> cat /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/screen-session.d/XS95-colordepth
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| 09:11 | if [ -z "$X_COLOR_DEPTH" ] && boolean_is_true "${X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH:-True}" && ! boolean_is_true "${LTSP_FATCLIENT}"; then
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| 09:12 | Do you have that exact line?
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| 09:12 | Or are you missing the first part of the if?
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| 09:12 | <fuzai> if [ -z "$X_COLOR_DEPTH" ] && boolean_is_true "${X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH:-True}" && ! boolean_is_true "${LTSP_FATCLIENT}"; then
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| 09:12 | X_COLOR_DEPTH=16
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| 09:13 | looks like i have the one you posted
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| 09:13 | <alkisg> It should be working then, are you sure your clients do get lts.conf?
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| 09:13 | (I assume you did run ltsp-update-image recently...)
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| 09:13 | <fuzai> i'm pretty sure they get lts.conf i don't see why they wouldn't
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| 09:13 | yea i ran ltsp-update-image --arch i386 after every mucking with it
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| 09:15 | <alkisg> OK try the x smart color depth bit and if it does work that way, reopen the bug report
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| 09:16 | <fuzai> i'll know in a few moments what the story is
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| 09:16 | do i have to do a ltsp-update-kernel too?
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| 09:17 | <alkisg> No you don't need ltsp-update-image either
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| 09:18 | <fuzai> ok brb i'm going to test this really quickly
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| 09:23 | <fuzai> Hi i'm back and straight from x.org's log [ 17.659] (++) NVIDIA(0): Depth 16, (--) framebuffer bpp 16
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| 09:23 | so trying to force 32 bit color depth i'm still getting 16
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| 09:24 | fuzai@demo1:~$ cat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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| 09:24 | X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH=false
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| 09:24 | X_COLOR_DEPTH=32
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| 09:24 | Sorry if that is considering spamming, i figured it was quiet enough around here to post three lines
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| 09:28 | <alkisg> fuzai: you're missing [Default] on top
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| 09:29 | <fuzai> Ohhhhh
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| 09:29 | <alkisg> So, try without the smart line
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| 09:31 | <fuzai> brb
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| 09:39 | <fuzai> were good now, it had to be a depth of 24 but its all worked out now
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| 09:41 | <alkisg> fuzai: which graphics card and driver is that exactly?
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| 09:41 | If it's not working with the default 16bpp, maybe we can put an exception for it in the source code if it's worth it
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| 09:41 | Did you say you're using the proprietary nvidia drivers in the chroot?
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| 09:41 | <fuzai> it is a GTS 450 and i have a 9600GT here as well
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| 09:41 | yea
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| 09:42 | i'm using, one second let me get hte package
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| 09:42 | basically 304 drivers for i386
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| 09:42 | connecting to a 64 bit server
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| 09:42 | the real clients will be 64 bit, but for now i've got to do them in 32
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| 09:42 | <alkisg> OK - I think the nouveau driver does work with 16bpp though so the appropriate thing would be to file a bug against the proprietary driver... maybe in the nvidia forums
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| 09:43 | <fuzai> it works in 16 it just looked bad, it's working fine now in 24 bit
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| 09:43 | now i'm just confused why firefox & flash as a localapp don't do full screen video anymore?
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| 09:43 | <alkisg> Ah... bad? A screenshot would be nice if you have the chance to get one at some point
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| 09:44 | <fuzai> bad like dithering bad, nothing really wrong with it, it's just hard to show it to people and say "hey look at this state of the art thing i'm working with"
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| 09:44 | <alkisg> That's only in ldm though, right? Not after login...
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| 09:45 | <fuzai> they xdpyinfo is telling me 32 bit
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> I.e. it's a bug in ldm, not a problem with 16bpp in general
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| 09:45 | <fuzai> ah
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| 09:45 | <fuzai> what about using lightdm as the login screen
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| 09:46 | i've read some bits about it, i just could never get it to work
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| 09:46 | i'm wondering if it's because i was missing that default line
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> Yeah it's not easy now, it's for developer only
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| 09:46 | <fuzai> ok
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> For now only LDM is supported
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| 09:46 | <fuzai> is there a way to justify all the login stuff to the left or right?
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| 09:47 | all the themes i see as templates put it right in the middle of everything
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> Not easy either, needs editing .c files
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| 09:47 | <markit> hi alkisg! how are you? :)))
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| 09:47 | <fuzai> Ok
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> Hi markit
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| 09:47 | Fine, although very busy the last weeks... you?
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| 09:48 | <markit> I'm recovering from my foot hurt... and not able to make the most of the "free" time I got, sigh :)
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| 09:48 | 4 days ago I did a "lesson" to children about foss and ktourtle... epoptes is envaluable!
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| 09:49 | hope you will find time and resouces to keep going the roadmap
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| 09:49 | (i.e. the "Static thumbnail icons when broadcasting" should be not that hard and very useful)
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> Sure, we'll keep updating epoptes for many years, although at some points other things might be more pressing
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| 09:50 | Why is it very useful? E.g. I might want to see the thumbnails while broadcasting
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| 09:51 | <markit> alkisg: I want to see the thumbails, but with an static image, otherwise I see my own screen in the thumbails
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| 09:51 | a) is a waste of bandwidth
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> Not if you broadcast in a window
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| 09:52 | <markit> b) is less easy to find the pc that are not in the broadcast
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| 09:52 | alkisg: broadcast in a window? is it an option? I just pressed "broadcast" button
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> There's an arrow right of that toolbar button
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| 09:52 | It has 2 options there
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| 09:52 | Broadcast full screen, or in a window
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| 09:52 | Those 2 options are also in the menus...
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| 09:53 | <markit> and if is an option, I want then some visual clue in the thumbail that let me recognize imediately which hosts receive broadcast
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| 09:53 | ah, I see
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> Sure, it's a good idea to put such an indication there, but I wouldn't consider it "pressing"
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| 09:53 | E.g. it's more pressing to see why KDE doesn't work with LTSP :D
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| 09:53 | <markit> arghhhhhh
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| 09:53 | you are killing me ;P
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| 09:54 | I still have to do more test and try to involve kde devs with NFS homes
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| 09:54 | just with nfs homes things don't work
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| 09:54 | so they can't blame "the obscure" ltsp
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> In gnome we have some problems as well
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| 09:54 | E.g. gnome-panel dying on fat clients, 1 out of 20 times
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| 09:55 | <markit> :(
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| 09:56 | how is going with PNPltsp?
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| 09:56 | P&P
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| 09:56 | plug and play
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| 09:56 | * markit sleepy | |
| 09:56 | <alkisg> No problems mentioned... everything's fine there, except for the normal LTSP problems
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| 09:58 | <markit> Could I say to kde people that I'm in contact with ltsp devs and if they help me, they would consider some specific fine tuning if necessary?
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> Sure, everything that needs to be done from the ltsp side, can be committed
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| 09:58 | But I don't think the problem is in LTSP, it's in KDE
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| 09:59 | <markit> me too, but I would like to make them aware that helping me they help kde, not just a lonely user
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> Tell them this use case:
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| 09:59 | <markit> since I'll do my best in the wiki or in testing
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> "I have an NFS server and I can't use it with KDE"
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| 09:59 | As simple as that
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| 10:00 | No need to tell them anything about LTSP, netbooting or other stuff, it's just a problem with /var, caching, NFS, and KDE
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| 10:00 | <markit> yep, but they probably reply "we know we have problems, but few users need NFS homes"
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| 10:01 | but maybe I'm pessimistic... most devs are young and care about desktop only
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| 10:01 | but we will see, thanks a lot, see you later :)
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> bb
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| 10:01 | <markit> (I'm helpin LiBo marathon right now)
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| 10:01 | https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Test_Marathon_LibreOffice_4.0
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| 10:01 | alkisg: if you know any specific ltsp-libo problem, let me know
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| 12:53 | <fuzai> is there anyway to make scroll wheels smoother?
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| 12:59 | <Hyperbyte> ...
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| 12:59 | That -has- to be the -most- offtopic question ever.
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| 13:00 | Open up your mouse, clean it, spray some WD40... see what happens.
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| 13:00 | Or, buy a new one. Depending on what you cost per hour, it's probably cheaper.
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| 13:17 | <fuzai> no i mean the mouse works fine with anything else
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| 13:18 | it seems that on the thin client that the scroll wheel is anything but smooth
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| 13:18 | i use this mouse on all sorts of desktops and laptops so i know how it's supposed to react
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| 13:19 | playing with it now, it seems to be application dependent
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| 13:54 | <gvy> try scrolling with a scrollbar to figure out whether it's a settings issue or video data transmission issue
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| 13:55 | <Hyperbyte> fuzai, let me guess - it most prominently happens with Firefox and Thunderbird?
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| 13:55 | <fuzai> so far i've seen it mainly with chrome and firefox both running as local apps
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| 13:56 | the terminal windows and xchat seem to scroll fine
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| 13:56 | <Hyperbyte> Check CPU usage on the client
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| 13:57 | Scrolling a web browser window is much more intensive than scrolling text
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| 13:57 | <fuzai> ok but it's an athlon fx 64 with 8gb ram and a nvidia gts 450 video card
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| 13:57 | <Hyperbyte> You can also tinker with: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/928979
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| 13:57 | <fuzai> and gb ethernet to it's server
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| 13:57 | thank you :)
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| 13:57 | <Hyperbyte> fuzai, doesn't matter what the hardware is. If you don't have correct drivers or settings to utilize the hardware, it'll start consuming CPU and hit a bottleneck
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| 13:57 | <fuzai> wow firefox really is using that processor
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| 13:58 | <Hyperbyte> I have zero experience with this, but maybe you need to install nvidia drivers?
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| 13:59 | <fuzai> 304 are already installed
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| 13:59 | i've got vdpau and everything
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| 13:59 | <Hyperbyte> Then maybe that's not it. :-)
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| 13:59 | <fuzai> yea i'm reading your mozilla link now
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| 13:59 | it's a single core athlon 64 fx
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| 13:59 | <Hyperbyte> You are 100% sure that the Firefox is running locally?
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| 14:00 | <fuzai> yeap it tells me which client its running on and ltsp-localapps shows firefox running
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| 14:00 | this athlon is single core in 32 bit mode and i'm not so sure how good this motherboard is
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| 14:01 | the clients i plan on using are dual core and hyperthreaded i believe
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| 14:01 | <Hyperbyte> In other news, Firefox -is- a major CPU hog.
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| 14:01 | <fuzai> yea last time i setup an ltsp setup i found firefox to be the more responsive one
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| 14:02 | <Hyperbyte> Well technically Firefox should work smoothly as a local app
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| 14:02 | Have you tried scrolling on different websites?
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| 14:02 | For example, open just one, simple website, without plugins, like http://www.ltsp.org/ and scroll there
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| 14:02 | <fuzai> yea there is a big difference between say reddit and that mozilla site you linked
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| 14:03 | <Hyperbyte> Well, I'm no Firefox expert....
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| 14:03 | It kind of ends there. :-)
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| 14:03 | <fuzai> are you using chrome as a local app?
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| 14:03 | <Hyperbyte> No, I'm using Firefox as a server app on one setup
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| 14:04 | I have clients there that can easily run Firefox locally, but hardware is no issue and it's a very powerful server... so I've just left it there.
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| 14:04 | On my other setup, I'm using fat clients.
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| 14:04 | <fuzai> my server is an i7
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| 14:05 | the clients are dual core atoms with nvidia cards
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| 14:05 | <Hyperbyte> I do remember disabling the smooth scrolling in Firefox on the server.
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| 14:05 | <fuzai> i just turned off smooth scrolling
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| 14:05 | and it seems to be alot better
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| 14:05 | i'm just shocked how much of that cpu firefox is using
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| 14:06 | <Hyperbyte> It should go down without smooth scrolling
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| 14:06 | <fuzai> actually now that i'm looking at it i've got one of the worst optimized sites up and their new layout just made it alot worse
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| 14:07 | yea by about 10%
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| 14:07 | but this flash site is just eating it up
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| 14:09 | with vlc as a local app i can almost smoothly stream a 1080p movie
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| 14:10 | thats what it is, i started gkrellm on the client and it's just pegged
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| 14:11 | this new layout of this flash site is just eating it up i guess because that's all thats running
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| 14:17 | wow the same site using firefox server side is only using 5% of the server vs. the 100% of the client
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| 14:24 | <fuzai> brb
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| 14:25 | <mdsa> Hello all, i'm testing out LTSP i've got it working on a couple clients but it wont boot on Wyse terminal's. The clients free at Trying to Load: pxelinux.cfg. They blink once but never actually load a gui. Any suggestions? I forced color depth to 16bit, and lowered the resolution but still no luck
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| 14:26 | *freeze
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| 14:29 | <fuzai> seems encryption was really eating up this processor
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| 14:34 | <Hyperbyte> fuzai, LDM_DIRECTX?
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| 14:34 | <fuzai> yea
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| 14:35 | now my flash videos work in full screen without a hitch as well
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| 14:35 | <Hyperbyte> Interesting.
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| 14:35 | LDM_DIRECTX shouldn't affect localapps I believe.
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| 14:35 | <fuzai> thats what i thought
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| 14:35 | <Hyperbyte> The whole point of localapps is that the screen updates -don't- go over the network, therefor LDM_DIRECTX shouldn't bother with it
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| 14:35 | <knipwim> fuzai: you have a 32 bits install?
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| 14:35 | <fuzai> but if ssh is bogging down the processor for the other streams i could see it
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| 14:36 | <knipwim> for the chroot
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| 14:36 | <fuzai> my clients are 32 bit my server is 64 bit
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| 14:36 | my clients eventually will be 64 bit, i'm waiting on hardware to show up
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| 14:38 | <knipwim> adobe flash doesn't support vdpau on 64 bit
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| 14:38 | not the last time i checked
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| 14:38 | <fuzai> you mean 32 bit, but vdpau displays stats just fine
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| 14:38 | <knipwim> yes, it supports vdpau on 32 bit, NOT on 64 bit
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| 14:39 | <fuzai> weird
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| 14:39 | <knipwim> it's just not implemented
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| 14:40 | <fuzai> http://pastebin.com/HD2hEyhj
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| 14:42 | <mdsa> is there a way to enable a verbose boot so I can see why a client wont complete booting?
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| 14:42 | <fuzai> where is it stopping?
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| 14:43 | <mdsa> Trying to Load: pxelinux.cfg/linux on wyse thin clients only, boots on other machines i've tried
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| 14:44 | <fuzai> i know this probably isn't the answer you are looking for, but have you considered using ipxe and reflashing the option rom on your network cards?
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| 14:46 | <mdsa> i haven't tried ipxe but i imagine I could boot the thin client up with an ipxe image. pxe does seem to work fine from other work stations. i was thinking something might be crashing when it tries to boot, the screen blinks once then goes back to loading pxelinux.cfg. the thin clients have much older hardware
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| 15:00 | <Hyperbyte> mdsa, you could see if
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| 15:00 | !quiet-splash
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| 15:00 | <ltsp> quiet-splash: to disable the splash screen in Ubuntu, in order to see any boot error messages, run sudo gedit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default and remove quiet splash plymouth:force-splash vt.handoff=7
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| 15:01 | <Hyperbyte> produces anything useful, but I doubt it... you don't seem to be getting that far in the boot process
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| 15:02 | <fuzai> i figured you just had a bad option rom in the wyse and that replacing that option rom with ipxe would skirt around the problem
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| 15:03 | i use ipxe in virtualbox and it works pretty well
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| 15:05 | brb
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| 15:11 | <mdsa> alright, so it did loading vmlinuz, loading initrd.img, then a whole bunch of stuff flew by and it's now hung at kernel_thread_helper+0x6/0x10
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| 16:08 | <fuzai> well it seems i've got the worst amd athlon 64
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| 16:09 | i've also realized that chrome vs. firefox as a local app i'm getting better flash responsiveness
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| 16:09 | both have gkrellm at 99% on the thin client but i don't see nearly the lag i do with firefox while using chrome
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| 17:03 | <markit> alkisg: I try to setup a nfs4 (not 3) home share, any drawback with nfs4 so, even if I make it work with KDE, ltsp will avoid regardless / have other troubles?
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