IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 11 February 2016 (all times are UTC)
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| 06:29 | <alkisg> Woot woot ltsp updated to 5.5.6 in xenial :)
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| 06:30 | <maldridge> huzzah!
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| 13:01 | <markit> hi Phantomas, I've completed the 5 missing italian translation strings for latest epoptes. PLEASE could you drop me a email some days before a new version is released, next time? :)
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| 13:01 | or is there a way to tell launchpad to notify automagically?
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| 15:00 | <alkisg> vagrantc: heya :) Have you ever thought of some way for thin clients to authenticate against the LTSP server, but then use the CPU/RAM of some beefy fat client that happens to be in that same computer lab, to take some load off of the ltsp server?
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| 15:01 | I was thinking that would be simple enough with ltsp 6, just NFS_HOME and LDM_SERVER=fat1...
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| 15:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: i've thought about LTSP servers that were themselves LTSP clients...
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> Unfortunately that lacks the authentication bit for thin clients...
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> you could configure libpam-sshauth to be an authentication method for sshd :)
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| 15:02 | <alkisg> Thins clients wouldn't be able to use those ltsp replicated servers for authentication, as they don't have the user accounts there (without pam sshaut)
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| 15:02 | <vagrantc> host key management is a little messed up, too
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| 15:03 | <alkisg> Right.... it's packaged for debian/ubuntu, isn't it?
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| 15:03 | * vagrantc nudged sbalneav to make a new upstream release | |
| 15:03 | <vagrantc> it's been a bit stalled in debian
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| 15:04 | <sbalneav> vagrantc: I'll get to it today
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> Hmmm I'll make a proof of concept by just downloading passwd, group, shadow etc from the server, ignoring security, and if it works fine, I'll look into integrating sshauth
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| 15:04 | sbalneav: thanks :)
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| 15:04 | <sbalneav> Morning alkisg
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| 15:04 | <vagrantc> alkisg: definitely easy by ignoring security
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| 15:04 | <alkisg> What's the weather like, there? Here we haven't seen any snow this year, no skiing... :-/
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> alkisg: you could just use the pam module that allows anyone to login
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> vagrantc: the group membership would be all messed up then
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| 15:05 | <vagrantc> ah, sure
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> We need e.g. user01 to belong to class1
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| 15:05 | <sbalneav> -18C here at the moment. Bit chilly
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| 15:06 | <vagrantc> 1.8*-1.8+32 ...
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| 15:07 | <vagrantc> er, 1.8*-18+32 ... my poor impoverished measurements make sense now
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| 15:07 | <alkisg> Whoops, +10 here, /me is jealous... :)
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| 15:07 | <vagrantc> sbalneav: what is this, like the dead of winter?
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| 15:08 | <sbalneav> We're heading towards the spring. The end is here.
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| 15:09 | <vagrantc> spring is again like 2-3 months early here this year
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| 16:22 | <bennabiy> alkisg_away: how stable is LTSP in 16.04 so far? you said you are running it?
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| 16:23 | <vagrantc> it only recent got updates sufficient to work
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| 16:23 | within the last day or three
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| 16:23 | <bennabiy> work in a complete way, or work enough to not pull your hair out and still not have a box?
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| 16:24 | * vagrantc shrugs | |
| 16:25 | <bennabiy> thank you
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| 16:37 | <alkisg_away> bennabiy: ltsp in 16.04 is fine, and it's been fine for a while if you used the greek schools ppa
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| 16:37 | Now it works without it as well
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| 16:37 | <bennabiy> Is it possible to get a copy of the ISO to test it?
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| 16:38 | <alkisg_away> What iso?
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| 16:38 | <bennabiy> 16.04
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| 16:38 | <alkisg_away> Installation is as usual, you download the ubuntu iso and install it and then install ltsp on top of it
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| 16:39 | <bennabiy> yes, but 16.04 is not released yet, afaik
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| 16:39 | <alkisg_away> There are daily isos
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| 16:40 | <bennabiy> yes, but I cannot see where to download them
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| 16:42 | <alkisg_away> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
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| 16:43 | <bennabiy> alkisg_away: thank you
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| 16:45 | <alkisg_away> np :)
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| 18:12 | <bennabiy> do you know if ubuntu will ever include zfs support on install?
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| 18:13 | <vagrantc> there are some licensing challenges outstanding, i think
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| 18:25 | <alkisg_away> https://github.com/zfsonlinux/pkg-zfs/wiki/HOWTO-install-Ubuntu-to-a-Native-ZFS-Root-Filesystem
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| 18:25 | <alkisg> Computers that have less than 2GB of memory run ZFS slowly. 4GB of memory is recommended for normal performance in basic workloads. 16GB of memory is the recommended minimum for deduplication.
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| 18:25 | Haha
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| 18:25 | So I'm guessing it's not suitable for 128 mb clients, right? :D
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| 18:32 | Btw, today I created a USB stick with Ubuntu/LTSP installed in it, and I set/opt/ltsp/images/i386.img as a symlink to /dev/sdb2, to the stick partition itself.
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| 18:32 | That way the stick can be used as an ltsp-pnp server, without an image, to minimize space + writes + used ram for caching
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| 18:34 | The good thing is that that setup didn't require many changes; (1) run nbd-server with group=disk, (2) add "noload" to the kernel cmdline to ignore the ext4 journal, and (3) manually copy the kernels as ltsp-update-kernels currently fails with symlinks
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> nice
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| 18:42 | <bennabiy> alkisg: yes, dedup was a fail, but zfs compression is pretty amazing. I was more thinking for the server, not for clients
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| 18:42 | <alkisg> bennabiy: why not btrfs compression?
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| 18:42 | It works fine on 128 mb ram clients...
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| 18:42 | (and of course, on the server...)
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| 18:42 | <bennabiy> I like the zfs features a bit better, but I am not opposed
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| 18:43 | they are similar, but a few things zfs does better
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| 18:43 | also zfs is a little more mature
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> Like ram usage? :P :D
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| 18:43 | I heard that, but not on linux, right?
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| 18:43 | <bennabiy> alkisg: it is almost fully featured on linux
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| 18:43 | <alkisg> btrfs is mainlined, that should help with its adoption in distros...
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| 18:43 | (upstream in the kernel)
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| 18:44 | Why does it need a whole 2 GB for normal use?
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| 18:44 | <bennabiy> because by default it devotes half of the memory available to the ARC
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| 18:45 | <vagrantc> it basically uses a very large in-memory cache
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| 18:45 | more complicated than that, of course, but that's a rough idea
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| 18:45 | <bennabiy> https://pthree.org/2012/12/07/zfs-administration-part-iv-the-adjustable-replacement-cache/
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| 18:45 | yes
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| 18:45 | it does a mix of LRU LFU cache
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| 18:45 | dynamic depending on the usage
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| 18:46 | you can tweak the cache setting though, so that it is not so memory intensive
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| 18:47 | the realtime benefit of zfs send (or btrfs send for that matter) is quite something when dealing with large amounts of data and the lz4 compression does wonders for speed
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| 18:49 | <alkisg> Isn't disk caching supposed to use all the "free" RAM automatically, and discard some bits on malloc() requests with whatever algorithm it wants?
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| 18:51 | <vagrantc> zfs is different.
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| 18:51 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 18:52 | I also like how zfs lets me see what is using up space on a per pool and per volume level, vs btrfs only showing on the pool
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| 18:52 | hard to tell how much is actually used in btrfs
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| 18:52 | I used btrfs for about 1 month a couple years ago
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| 18:52 | I am sure it has increased a bit from then
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> What kind of setup are you using zfs with?
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| 18:53 | <bennabiy> debian
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| 18:53 | <alkisg> No I mean, how come you need all those advanced things like zfs send etc?
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| 18:53 | <vagrantc> zfs makes use of the heisenberg uncertainty principle
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| 18:54 | <bennabiy> I use it for backing up of VM's and webservers primarily
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| 18:54 | with the ability to restore to a snapshot instantly, as well as incremental send
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| 18:54 | <alkisg> And zfs send serves for incremental backups? Like, remote storing of snapshots?
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| 18:54 | <bennabiy> yes
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| 18:54 | without needing to calculate the diffs before sending
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| 18:54 | <vagrantc> zfs is like a filesystem and raid and backups all mushed together
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| 18:55 | <bennabiy> it already knows what changed when it goes to send
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| 18:55 | And if I move an 8GB file or so to a new folder, it does not need to resend the 8GB file like rsync does, but just moves the pointer
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| 18:56 | I just like it
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| 18:56 | <alkisg> But in the end you have to "replay" all the incremental backups to get what you need to restore, right?
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| 18:56 | <bennabiy> I am not saying I am an expert on it or anything...
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| 18:56 | nope
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| 18:56 | only if I do not know where the item I am looking for it
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| 18:57 | btrfs does have this, that it can restore files on an individual basis, zfs I would need to copy the files out, if I didn't want to rollback
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| 18:57 | <alkisg> The remote backup, is it something like a clone of your primary zfs disk, or something like an ext4 file system with zfs.backup.1, zfs.backup.2 files in it?
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| 18:58 | <vagrantc> oh, also lvm
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| 18:58 | <bennabiy> alkisg: are you asking in general, or in my setup?
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| 18:59 | <alkisg> bennabiy: ...I was asking about your setup, but we can talk in general, sure, it's the theory that interest me, on how it can be used more convienently...
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| 18:59 | If the result of `zfs send` is stored as files, I imagine it has to be played back to make sense
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| 19:00 | While if it's applied to an identical zfs filesystem, then ok it's a clone
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| 19:01 | <bennabiy> like vagrantc said, it is like lvm supporting snapshots and cloning etc, as a COW filesystem. Here is a typical situation...
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| 19:04 | <bennabiy> Server A has pool/LiveData and pool/Backup (pool being the vdev, LiveData and Backup being filesystems) and I snapshot the LiveData@today. I can zfs send pool/LiveData@today to pool/Backup@today which would copy the data in pool/LiveData as of the snapshot to the backup with a snapshot of the same name (or I could rename it, or send to a different server etc)
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| 19:04 | I can then reference that data at that time and mount it wherever I want
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| 19:05 | I can also instantly rollback to a snapshot (deleting any snapshots which occured between the current time and that snapshot) or I can clone out a snapshot and then make it an individual filesystem
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| 19:07 | <bennabiy> This might help more than me trying to type it out... http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/12/rsync-net-zfs-replication-to-the-cloud-is-finally-here-and-its-fast/
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| 19:07 | as an example
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| 19:36 | <alkisg> Thank you bennabiy, I'll read that later on
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| 19:36 | * alkisg waves for now... | |
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| 19:36 | * bennabiy waves | |
| 19:37 | <bennabiy> alkisg_away: no problem :)
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| 19:37 | <alkisg_away> :)
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| 21:04 | <bennabiy> what version ltsp / ldm do I need to support 16.04?
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| 21:04 | alkisg_away: ^
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| 21:05 | (and I do not want the answer... use the greek schools ppa... )
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| 21:06 | <||cw> IIRC 16.04 should include a working ltsp
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| 21:06 | <vagrantc> bennabiy: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ltsp
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| 21:07 | looks like 5.5.6 is available, which is good.
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| 21:08 | <bennabiy> I do not mean what does 16.04 ship with, but alkisg said that it was only in the last upload or two that got it working
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| 21:08 | or is he putting his uploads directly upstream?
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| 21:09 | <vagrantc> 5.5.6 contains all the changes that were in the ppa, i believe
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| 21:11 | <bennabiy> great.
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