IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 12 February 2010 (all times are UTC)
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| 00:34 | <alkisg> ΚαλημÎρα
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| 01:55 | <gnunux> hi
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| 02:02 | <Appiah> yo
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| 03:55 | <wim_> | |
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| 04:01 | <Appiah> if you are sure its a matter of a missing module I'd suggest you try to include it
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| 04:03 | <Appiah> Do you got multiple nics on the thin client wim_ ?
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| 04:05 | if yes its a known bug
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| 04:39 | <wim_> no i don't have multiple nics in my thin client. I tested it with ubuntu 9.04 live cd, network worked out of the box. with debian 5.0.3 live cd, no network. How can I include this module?
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| 04:40 | <Appiah> build it i'd guess
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| 04:44 | download the driver source for the NIC, compile it , include it
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| 04:44 | refeer to debian docs for that
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| 04:45 | if the network works on ubuntu maybe you could just make a ubuntu chroot for that client instead
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| 04:47 | <alkisg> Or maybe you could install a newer kernel on the chroot...
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| 04:47 | <wim_> is there somewhere more information how to include this module in the kernel, these are production servers and I don't want to mess up things
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| 04:47 | <Appiah> is there no debian live with later kernel?
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| 04:48 | 5.0.3 is from 10-01-25
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| 04:49 | <wim_> ive got this from http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/
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| 08:09 | <akSeya> hi there
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| 08:53 | <vbundi> Mornin all
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| 08:55 | <sbalneav> Morning all
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| 08:58 | <vbundi> morning
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| 08:58 | <akSeya> i have a little problem here.. my network already has a DHCP server which I don't have access... is there a way to set my LTSP server to get an IP from that server and give it to the machines? or, a way to my DHCP server answers only to clients that are trying to boot PXE and ignore other requests..
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| 08:59 | morning ;)
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| 08:59 | <sbalneav> There are two ways to solve that.
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| 09:00 | 1) Partition off your thin clients on a separate switch, with a separate ethernet card. So there's two ethernet cards in the ltsp server, one for your main connection, one to handle the clients.
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| 09:01 | then the dhcpd server on the ltsp box just serves the clients.
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| 09:01 | the second is to use dnsmasq
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| 09:01 | but I don't know how to do 2). Others do.
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> I don't use it myself, as I prefer partitioning the traffic for thin clients off on it's own subnet.
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| 09:01 | <akSeya> will search for dnsmasq ;)
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| 09:03 | isn't there a "Dhcp proxy" thing?
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| 09:03 | <sbalneav> that's what dnsmasq is
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| 09:03 | <reynolds> Does anyone have an opinion about server processors? I am looking to buy a server for my school that will support 60+ clients occasionally using flash. I am debating between xeon and i7 processors.
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| 09:04 | <akSeya> hum.. ok then :D
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| 09:04 | <sep> if you have 60 people occasionaly using flash "at the same time" you have a big problem
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| 09:04 | <sbalneav> akSeya: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ProxyDHCP
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| 09:04 | <sep> if you have a user ocassionaly using flash you might live
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| 09:05 | <reynolds> I can local-app flash for many of the clients, but want some overhead.
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| 09:06 | <akSeya> sbalneav: damn!! that's what I was looking for!!!
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| 09:06 | thanks a lot!!!
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| 09:21 | <vbundi> Gadi: after a fresh install yesterday my client is booting much faster for some reason, (haven't change ltspfs_entry) http://imagebin.org/84530
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| 09:22 | bootchart looks totally different too
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| 09:24 | <Gadi> vbundi: interesting
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| 09:24 | I wonder if you had any issue with the drive IO to the drive that /opt/ltsp/images/ lives on
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| 09:24 | * Gadi is on a drive IO kick because he has a failing hard drive at home | |
| 09:25 | <Gadi> which makes it quite evident how much 300kbps IO speeds can cripple a system
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| 09:25 | ;)
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| 09:25 | <vbundi> lol
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> vbundi: and I can tell from that install that you don't even have some of the additional recent optimizations we have been making
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| 09:26 | <vbundi> I hope they aren't failing, they raid 1 setup is 1 month old
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| 09:26 | Gadi: really? I added Stephens repository
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| 09:26 | <Gadi> this is a VM, right?
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| 09:26 | <vbundi> the server is a real server
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> yeah, we have some extra stuff since stephane's last upload
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| 09:27 | <vbundi> oh nice
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| 09:27 | * Gadi is awaiting his next upload to his ppa | |
| 09:27 | <Gadi> ah real server
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| 09:27 | drives are local or NAS/NFS?
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| 09:27 | <vbundi> local
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| 09:27 | <Gadi> good
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| 09:27 | was it like that before?
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| 09:28 | <vbundi> yes
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| 09:28 | <Gadi> ok - so that prolly wasn't it
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| 09:28 | <vbundi> what IS different hough
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| 09:28 | *though
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| 09:28 | is the previous install, I installed server 9.10 x64 and installed ltsp manually
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| 09:29 | ie apt-get install ltsp-server-standalone etc
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| 09:29 | this time I used the Alternate CD "Install LTSP Server" option
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| 09:29 | <vbundi> so maybe I was missing something
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| 09:31 | <Gadi> interesting
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| 09:33 | <vbundi> wow look at this.. was auto generated, obviously I did not do this http://pastebin.org/90683
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| 09:34 | that's my /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 09:34 | <Gadi> huh - looks like there's more code that someone changed that needs cleaning up
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| 09:34 | :P
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| 09:34 | this time it wasnt me
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| 09:34 | :)
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| 09:35 | <vbundi> apparently
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| 09:35 | <Gadi> ok.... who's been messing with ltsp-update-kernels??? fess up....
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| 09:35 | ;)
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| 09:36 | <vbundi> I cleaned up the file... ran ltsp-update-kernels and it screw it up again
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| 09:36 | sorry it DIDNT screw it up again
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| 09:36 | <Gadi> hmmm....
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| 09:36 | <alkisg> Known bug
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| 09:36 | I've reported that a while bug, along with a small fix
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| 09:37 | But then it stuck in the "I'd prefer a total rewrite" idea :P
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| 09:37 | <Gadi> hehe
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| 09:37 | <vbundi> nice :)
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| 09:37 | * Gadi cheers alkisg on to bzr commit | |
| 09:37 | <alkisg> The dns one? It was about time - I thought we had dhcp dns since 1-2 years, and we didn't! :)
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| 09:38 | <Gadi> wow - ur starting to sound like ogra
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| 09:38 | <vbundi> ok so running ltsp-update-image --arch i386 is doing it
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| 09:38 | <alkisg> The bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/504733
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| 09:38 | Heh! So in 2 years I'm going to be messing with ARMs? Omg...!
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| 09:40 | <vbundi> alkisg: my install from a day ago did not do this
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| 09:41 | <vbundi> that setup was ubuntu server 9.10 with ltsp installed after... whereas this setup is alternate CD "Install LTSP Server" option (in case you didn't see when I posted that earlier)
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| 09:42 | * alkisg looks at the logs... | |
| 09:44 | <alkisg> vbundi: about a year ago, vagrantc changed pxelinux.cfg/default to contain multiple lines instead of one
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| 09:45 | vbundi: since then, if someone uses a different port than 2000, pxelinux.cfg/default is not working correctly,
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| 09:45 | <vbundi> ohhhh
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> because the "add nbdport=xxx" code is dumb and adds it to all the lines, assuming that it still only contains one line
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| 09:45 | <vbundi> so the reason mine is doing this now and it didn't before... is because I have an amd64 chroot now
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| 09:45 | <alkisg> Because you have 2 chroots
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| 09:45 | <vbundi> yes
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| 09:45 | <Gadi> shouldn't ltsp-update-kernels read in the current ports from inetd.conf and use those? and if none exist, start at a base port and increment for each chroot?
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| 09:46 | <alkisg> Gadi, sure, and it should even write it to $ROOT/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf for update-kernels to get it later on
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| 09:46 | (e.g. to create an .nbd image)
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| 09:47 | *nbi
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| 09:47 | <Gadi> why?
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| 09:47 | what does the nbi have to do with the port number?
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| 09:47 | <alkisg> It doesn't use pxelinux.cfg/default, so it doesn't have any (other) way of knowing the nbd port
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| 09:47 | <Gadi> dhcpd.conf?
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> It would be really nice, but we don't use it
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| 09:48 | <vbundi> oo I've never noticed mksquashfs say it uses all cores
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| 09:48 | <alkisg> (and it wouldn't work in my particular use case, as I'm using proxydhcp)
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| 09:48 | <Gadi> we should really deprecate nbi
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| 09:49 | now that etherboot has PXE
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> I think there are some TCs that have etherboot though, and are not easily flashable
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| 09:49 | <Gadi> ah
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> But it's broken in Karmic anyway :P
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| 09:49 | ...and noone cared enough to fix it!
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| 09:49 | <Gadi> speaks volumes
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| 09:49 | <alkisg> Yup
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> anyhow, if the limitation of etherboot is that it has to be on the base port
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| 09:50 | I don't think too many people would holler
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> No, it just has the kernel parameters hard-coded
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| 09:50 | <Gadi> right
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| 09:50 | <alkisg> Whereas pxelinux gets them on the fly, from tftp
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| 09:51 | <Gadi> we used to pass dhcp options for etherboot
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> Ah... you're right
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| 09:51 | I forgot about that
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| 09:51 | <Gadi> I am sure dnsmasq supports them as well
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| 09:51 | <alkisg> OK, that would work. Proxydhcp + etherboot + different port wouldn't work, but that's too rare to care about
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| 09:51 | <Gadi> I would prefer not going too crazy to try and muck with the chroot for nbi's sake
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> Why is notifying the chroot crazy/
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| 09:52 | ?
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| 09:52 | <Gadi> more to break
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| 09:52 | hard to test
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| 09:52 | no one cares
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| 09:52 | :)
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| 09:52 | <alkisg> Nah, I think it's even more logical than the current code
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| 09:53 | Right now, update-kernels generates a pxelinux.cfg/default
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| 09:53 | and ltsp-update-kernels copies it to the tftpboot dir
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| 09:53 | * Gadi thinks we should just have a server-side conf file with BASE_PORT=foo | |
| 09:53 | <Gadi> have it pull in the value
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| 09:53 | <alkisg> That pxelinux.cfg/default is ****different**** than the one generated by ltsp-update-image!!!
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| 09:53 | <Gadi> and increment
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> Then ltsp-update-kernels should have to parse / sed a text file
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> it does?
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| 09:54 | <alkisg> It does, but it doesn't do a good job (and hence the bug)
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| 09:54 | Using configuration files would be much saner
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| 09:54 | <Gadi> I didn't realize pxelinux.cfg/default is in the chroot
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| 09:54 | I thought just all the boot files were copied
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| 09:55 | <alkisg> There are 2 different tools that mess with it, update-kernels generates it in the chroot, ltsp-update-kernels copies it to tftp, and ltsp-update-image seds through it to change the port
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| 09:55 | I think that's a mess, and using configuration files would be better
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| 09:56 | <Gadi> ++
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| 09:57 | * Gadi thinks we should never copy pxelinux.cfg/default from chroot to server | |
| 09:57 | <Gadi> just modify whatever is existing
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| 09:57 | and if none exists, create
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> About pxelinux, I agree, but there might be cases (powerpcs?) that would need binary files in the tftp, and those could only be build on the chroot
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| 09:58 | (like .nbi, which is also binary, and we copy it to the chroot)
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| 09:58 | <Gadi> building binaries in chroot is one thing
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| 09:58 | copying pxelinux.cfg/default is another
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| 09:58 | <alkisg> Right
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| 09:58 | <Gadi> so, copy the pxelinux.0 and other stuff
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| 09:58 | just not the cfg
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| 09:59 | <alkisg> I agree (I think I also filed a bug for that 2 years ago :D)
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| 09:59 | <Gadi> and if someone has screwed up their own config, they can just remove it and run ltsp-update-kernels
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| 10:00 | <alkisg> Right. And $ROOT/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf would contain any info necessary to build that file, e.g. BOOTPROMPT_OPTS (ltsp-build-client would generate that file)
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| 10:00 | * Gadi always thinks of shaving little critters with a nail file when folks say "I filed a bug" | |
| 10:00 | <Gadi> is that wrong?
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| 10:01 | <alkisg> Heh :)
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| 10:01 | Hey, 2 years ago I only had a few months of linux experience...
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| 10:01 | Filing bugs was the best I could do!
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| 10:01 | * ogra hands alkisg a time machine | |
| 10:01 | <ogra> fix that !
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| 10:02 | <alkisg> Yup, I'll do that. But in good time - now the fat clients need more love than it...
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| 10:03 | <johnny> who let ogra out
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| 10:03 | sup ogra :)
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| 10:03 | <alkisg> :D :D :D
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| 10:03 | <ogra> johnny, busy week ... FF ahead
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| 10:03 | <johnny> ah swell
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| 10:03 | ahead?
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| 10:03 | <ogra> next week, yes
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| 10:03 | <johnny> day?
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| 10:03 | <ogra> (faeture freeze)
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| 10:04 | <johnny> i know
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| 10:04 | <ogra> thu i think
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| 10:04 | <johnny> i don't think we can get gajim .14 in there before then :(
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| 10:04 | gajim finally went xdg and gained some jingle support
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| 10:04 | <ogra> is it in main ?
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| 10:04 | <johnny> we also removed a glade dependency and went noarch
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| 10:05 | i'm not actually sure..
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| 10:05 | <ogra> i think universe stays open longer
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| 10:05 | <johnny> never used it on ubuntu
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| 10:05 | but good to know
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| 10:05 | <ogra> its just a bit stricter for main this time because we work towards LTS
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| 10:05 | <johnny> yeah
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| 10:05 | well.. luckily you'll get pidgin in time
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| 10:06 | oh wait.. for pidgin it doesn't matter..
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| 10:06 | but gajim won't be able to use new facebook im in .13
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| 10:06 | and that might upset some poeple
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| 10:06 | <ogra> just switch them to empathy
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| 10:06 | <johnny> yeah right
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| 10:06 | empathy is a poor client
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| 10:06 | suck
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| 10:07 | you can't sent raw xmpp stanzas. it's almost useless for anything but the basics
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| 10:07 | * ogra didnt use IM for a long time | |
| 10:07 | <johnny> no roster versioning either
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| 10:07 | <ogra> switch them to IRC :)
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| 10:07 | <johnny> yeah right
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| 10:07 | are you insane ogra
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| 10:07 | <ogra> you know me, make a guess :)
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| 10:07 | <johnny> lol
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| 10:08 | ogra, really.. empathy is pretty useless for me..
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| 10:08 | the design of telepathy makes me super sad
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| 10:08 | too lcd
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| 10:08 | <ogra> lcd ?
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| 10:08 | <johnny> lowest commmon denominator
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| 10:08 | <ogra> ah
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| 10:09 | well, it will grow over time
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| 10:09 | <johnny> except you can't even send raw xmpp stanzas :(
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| 10:09 | <ogra> remember gstreamer ... it was useless for ages and everyone used mplayer ...
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| 10:09 | <johnny> sure.. except you don't have to worry about what version people other than you have
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| 10:09 | unlike with telepathy
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| 10:10 | we can't do X together unless you do why
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| 10:10 | Y*
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| 10:10 | <ogra> because its stil young
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| 10:10 | <johnny> ogra, no.. it's just the initial desgin philosohy..
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| 10:10 | gstreamer design was great from the getgo.. even if it wasn't ready
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| 10:10 | that's the opposite..
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| 10:10 | from telepathy
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| 10:10 | the lcd philosophy pervades..
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| 10:11 | perhaps they had no idea xmpp was going to be so widespread by now
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| 10:11 | that's my only nice thing i can imagine about it
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| 10:11 | the process i mean..
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| 10:12 | <ogra> well, someone will write an XMPP extension for tlepathy one day
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| 10:12 | <johnny> obviously you don't understand then..
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| 10:12 | i'll be quiet about it in #ltsp then :)
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| 10:12 | /me goes back to working with terribly written php code
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| 10:14 | <Blinny> Hey, me too!
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| 10:14 | (except it's my code)
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| 10:28 | * gvy waves a hand | |
| 10:28 | <gvy> hi :)
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| 10:44 | <vagrantc> alkisg: nice job on the test if resolv.conf is writeable. it's so tempting to use "test -w" or "[ -w ]" but that behaves inconsistantly depending on the shell.
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| 10:45 | only real way to test that something is writeable is to attempt to write to it :)
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| 10:45 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I did think of that, but I saw in "man sh" that it doesn't really return if it's writeable, it just returns if it's chmod +w... (useless on a read only file system)
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| 10:46 | <vagrantc> alkisg: bash, dash and /usr/bin/test all behave differently, at the very least.
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| 10:46 | so you don't get consistant behavior
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| 10:46 | <alkisg> Ugh. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind
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| 10:47 | <vagrantc> in debian, i patch ltsp/ldm/ltspfs upstream to use /usr/bin/test in most cases.
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| 10:47 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I keep thinking we need a separate config file though, in /var/run/ltsp/values-from-initramfs.conf
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| 10:48 | I.e. initramfs can write some stuff there, e.g. the hostname, and the initscripts can use them
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| 10:48 | To avoid duplicating code...
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| 10:48 | Something like ltsp_config, but one that won't be regenerated
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| 10:49 | <vagrantc> alkisg: /var/cache would be a little better ... doing early stuff in /var/run gets overwritten early in the debian ltsp boot process, as it gets mounted with a tmpfs.
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| 10:49 | although that may be because i asked it to do so... :)
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| 10:49 | <alkisg> Heh
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| 10:50 | Sure, any dir will do for me, I haven't read FHS good enough to object in anything... :D
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| 10:50 | <vagrantc> i should drop that for ltsp 5.2, and handle it from the initramfs.
| |
| 10:51 | <ogra> vagrantc, you dont move mount /var/run ?
| |
| 10:51 | <vagrantc> using /var/cache actually makes a lot of sense... it's where you store data that could be regenerated if it had to be... which is exactly what we're doing. although it's supposed to be able to survive a reboot, which we obviously don't :)
| |
| 10:52 | ogra: no, at some point i just asked the init system to handle it as it was run much earlier in the process
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| 10:52 | <alkisg> Wouldn't it be better if we moved stuff *away* from the initramfs, e.g. in a 00- initscript?
| |
| 10:52 | <vagrantc> ogra: but i may move it back into LTSP's control
| |
| 10:52 | <alkisg> (again, to avoid duplicating code...)
| |
| 10:52 | <vagrantc> since i finally figured out i can do that from the initramfs
| |
| 10:53 | alkisg: well, the *code* is still in the root filesystem, it's just a hook in the initramfs that runs a chrooted binary.
| |
| 10:53 | alkisg: so someone could run that code from an init script, if it suited their distro better. i tried to be clever. :)
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| 10:54 | jelly-bean has joined #ltsp | |
| 10:54 | <ogra> vagrantc, well, in ubuntu mountall does that but i think there is a big delta between ubuntu and debian mountall due to upstart now
| |
| 10:54 | <vagrantc> ogra: right
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| 10:55 | <gvy> (in the voice of shrek) vagrantc, you *are* clever :)
| |
| 10:55 | hi ogra
| |
| 10:55 | glad to see you all
| |
| 10:56 | <jelly-bean> thin clients are getting this error while booting and i know its something to do with dhcp http://pastebin.com/d1554b436
| |
| 10:56 | because i just switched dhcp servers and this started. if i switch back to old dhcp server it works. i have compared the dhcpd.conf files and they are very close. i am not sure what is causing the difference
| |
| 10:56 | any ideas?
| |
| 10:57 | <alkisg> jelly-bean: karmic?
| |
| 10:57 | <jelly-bean> ya
| |
| 10:58 | <alkisg> known bug, unfortunately the fix didn't make it for karmic
| |
| 10:58 | You need to modify udhcp, let me get you a link...
| |
| 10:59 | jelly-bean has quit IRC | |
| 10:59 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/download/1652/udhcp-20090830223050-2djgfmyowairbgwl-3/udhcp
| |
| 10:59 | Heh
| |
| 11:01 | jelly-bean has joined #ltsp | |
| 11:01 | <jelly-bean> odd. i just forced the new dhcp to use the old dhcpd.conf and it works. maybe i can post the two config files for comparison. they look identical to me on the important bits
| |
| 11:02 | <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/download/1652/udhcp-20090830223050-2djgfmyowairbgwl-3/udhcp
| |
| 11:02 | Download this file
| |
| 11:02 | <jelly-bean> what do i do with this bin
| |
| 11:02 | <alkisg> Overwrite /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp with it
| |
| 11:02 | Then, run:
| |
| 11:02 | sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 update-initramfs -u
| |
| 11:02 | sudo ltsp-update-kernels
| |
| 11:03 | And it should fix your problem./
| |
| 11:03 | <gvy> alkisg, a wiki faq page, eh?
| |
| 11:03 | <alkisg> gvy, yeah, we should make one :)
| |
| 11:03 | <gvy> probably a relnotes/errata one
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| 11:13 | <jelly-bean> it worked! you are awesome alkisg
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| 11:17 | <alkisg> yw
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| 11:31 | <Gadi> vagrantc: ping
| |
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| 11:36 | * vagrantc thwacks Gadi with a pong paddle | |
| 11:36 | <indradg> hi is this the right channel to ask about ltsp-cluster?
| |
| 11:37 | <vagrantc> indradg: stgraber's the one to ask about that
| |
| 11:37 | <Gadi> vagrantc: was this construct simply to ignore files with extensions: egrep ^[0-9a-zA-Z_\-]*$
| |
| 11:37 | <knipwim> | |
| 11:37 | <Gadi> if so, I would prefer to just strip extensions
| |
| 11:37 | <knipwim> wrong window
| |
| 11:38 | <Gadi> using a shell primitive
| |
| 11:38 | <indradg> vagrantc, thanks
| |
| 11:38 | <Gadi> as these bootcharts reveal, the repetitive use of basename and egrep get costly in large doses
| |
| 11:38 | <indradg> stgraber, ping
| |
| 11:39 | stgraber, are there F12 packages available for ltsp-cluster?
| |
| 11:39 | <johnny> /me has never heard of them
| |
| 11:40 | i don't even know if anybody has ever tested it on fedora
| |
| 11:41 | <vagrantc> Gadi: it's basically to comply with debian's run-parts binary, in a distro incompatible way.
| |
| 11:41 | * ogra doubts it | |
| 11:42 | <alkisg> Gadi is on a speed-up-ltsp quest...
| |
| 11:42 | <ogra> yay
| |
| 11:42 | <Gadi> vagrantc: I would prefer to use ${foo%%.*}
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| 11:42 | <alkisg> Gadi, but using basename is more readable, maybe we should make functions with the same names?
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| 11:42 | <Gadi> pheh
| |
| 11:42 | <ogra> Gadi, beat that ! http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/osiris-lucid-20100202-6.png
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| 11:42 | <vagrantc> Gadi: that doesn't catch ~ as a backup extension
| |
| 11:42 | <Gadi> learn shell
| |
| 11:42 | <indradg> johnny, what is confusing to me is this -> "LTSP-Cluster is provided via LTSP plugins shipped with the official LTSP distribution" from the ltsp-cluster website
| |
| 11:43 | johnny, what *is* the official distro?
| |
| 11:43 | <vagrantc> Gadi: or half a dozen others.
| |
| 11:43 | Gadi: i'd rather match what we actually want than figure out what we don't.
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| 11:43 | <indradg> johnny, i can't locate anything recent on warren togami's blog :(
| |
| 11:44 | <Gadi> and to what end?
| |
| 11:44 | why must we be compat with run-parts binary?
| |
| 11:45 | we are free to say: files in these dirs with the following extensions will not be executed
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| 11:45 | <vagrantc> Gadi: because it has a good reason for that pattern?
| |
| 11:45 | <alkisg> Couldn't we use case instead of egrep?
| |
| 11:46 | <vagrantc> Gadi: it's easier to define what's valid than it is to say what isn't.
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| 11:46 | <johnny> indradg, send him an email
| |
| 11:46 | or however you can t otalk to himi
| |
| 11:46 | <vagrantc> cleaner.
| |
| 11:46 | <johnny> can to talk to him*
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| 11:46 | <vagrantc> alkisg: well, it's hard to get the same matching.
| |
| 11:46 | alkisg: but if we can, that'd be great.
| |
| 11:47 | <alkisg> vagrantc: I think we can also use egrep once for all files, instead of using it once for every file
| |
| 11:47 | I.e. egrep first, and then do a "for file... basename"
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| 11:47 | <vagrantc> that would be a significant improvement...
| |
| 11:49 | <alkisg> Erm, I think we can just use one sed for all the loop
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| 11:49 | No for / if / echo whatsoever
| |
| 11:50 | * alkisg tries that... | |
| 11:50 | <vagrantc> it was originally written for ltsp-build-client, and then got moved into other areas ... so it wasn't written with optimization in mind.
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| 11:51 | <Gadi> yeah - its just painful to see clients spend 20 seconds on basename|egrep
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| 11:51 | :P
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| 11:51 | <vagrantc> Gadi: i hear ya.
| |
| 11:52 | <Gadi> especially when we're mostly checking that we ourselves don't do anything stupid
| |
| 11:52 | :)
| |
| 11:53 | it's like opening a door and pausing every second to make absolutely sure you don't hit yourself in the face
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| 11:55 | <alkisg> Heh, run_parts_list /usr/sbin needs a second on my core 2 duo!
| |
| 11:56 | Nice catch, Gadi
| |
| 11:56 | <Gadi> also, we have the same kind of code in ldm-script
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| 11:56 | so, we should be sure to fix in both places
| |
| 11:57 | also, I think ldm-script needs an unset SCRIPTS in the beginning, tho I guess we haven't been burned by that yet
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| 11:58 | <stgraber> indradg: hi
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| 11:58 | <Gadi> ldm-script also has an extraneous for loop
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| 11:58 | <vagrantc> oh, be careful
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| 12:00 | <stgraber> indradg: no, we don't have any package for fedora and I don't think somebody is working on it. Mostly because we (as in Revolution Linux), only deploy Ubuntu ;)
| |
| 12:00 | indradg: but if someone wants to work on that, we'll for sure announce it on the website and make it available on Launchpad ;)
| |
| 12:01 | <alkisg> Gadi, can you try this? find -L /usr/sbin -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type f $find_opts | sort -n | sed -n 's/.*\/[0-9a-zA-Z_\-]\+$/&/p'
| |
| 12:01 | <Gadi> 1 sec - I am going into a mtg
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| 12:01 | brb
| |
| 12:01 | <alkisg> k
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| 12:02 | <vagrantc> alkisg: compare that to ls /usr/sbin
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| 12:04 | <alkisg> vagrantc, and?
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| 12:04 | <vagrantc> what's the comparison?
| |
| 12:05 | <alkisg> I compared it to run_parts_list, and it had the same output...
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| 12:05 | <vagrantc> and the speed?
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| 12:06 | <alkisg> 0m0.024s vs 0m2.104s
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| 12:06 | <vagrantc> heh
| |
| 12:06 | <alkisg> 100 times faster...
| |
| 12:06 | <vagrantc> trivial!
| |
| 12:06 | <alkisg> I'll make a visible difference!
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| 12:07 | <vagrantc> alkisg: so, you found a way to do it with a single call to sed?
| |
| 12:07 | <alkisg> Yeah, the one above
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| 12:07 | <vagrantc> ah, missed that
| |
| 12:07 | <alkisg> I think I can also write it without the -n negation, to be more readable, but it's also good this way
| |
| 12:08 | <vagrantc> what's the -n do?
| |
| 12:08 | <alkisg> "don't produce any output by default, unless /p is used on matches"
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| 12:09 | <vagrantc> looks like a big improvement.
| |
| 12:10 | though i seem to recall reading something about incompatible sed implementations recently..
| |
| 12:11 | <alkisg> Some gnu-isms are on the sed man page, but that line is simple enough to be compatible...
| |
| 12:11 | Let me check in #sed to make sure, (in a while - have something to do now...)
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| 12:12 | <vagrantc> could also use sed -n 's,.*/[0-9a-zA-Z_\-]\+$,&,p' ?
| |
| 12:12 | <alkisg> Yup
| |
| 12:12 | Or #, whatever's more readable
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| 12:12 | <vagrantc> reduces the esacping needed
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| 12:14 | that seems like a significant improvement, though :)
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| 12:14 | <alkisg> Go go Gadi!
| |
| 12:15 | <vagrantc> alkisg: may as well commit it, no?
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| 12:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: gimme some time to see if it can be written a little better, and test...
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| 12:16 | <vagrantc> no releasing 5.2 till we get that everybody, ok? :)
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| 12:16 | <alkisg> :P
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| 12:21 | <alkisg> OK, here it is: find -L /usr/sbin -mindepth 1 -maxdepth 1 -type f | sort -n | sed -n '/.*\/[0-9a-zA-Z_\-]\{1,\}$/p'
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| 12:24 | time run_parts_list /usr/bin > /tmp/2 ==> 14 secs, omg...
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> that's the original?
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| 12:24 | <alkisg> Yes, the new one is 0m0.042s
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| 12:24 | <vagrantc> astounding!
| |
| 12:25 | i've got a patch for ldm-script, too
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| 12:25 | <alkisg> OK, commiting...
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| 12:25 | <vagrantc> that's called quite a few times, too ...
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| 12:28 | <vagrantc> the great grep reclamation
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| 12:28 | <alkisg> sed might be unreadable, but it's also unbeatable :)
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| 12:39 | <vagrantc> alkisg: even got rid of the for loop :)
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| 12:40 | <alkisg> I love the commits with more - than + :)
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| 12:49 | <indradg> stgraber, sorry was afk
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| 12:49 | stgraber, so "official distro" should read as "Ubuntu" .. right?
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| 12:50 | <alkisg> indradg: I think stgraber means "upstream" when he speaks of the official ltsp distribution...
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| 12:51 | I.e. the upstream tarballs, as opposed to the ubuntu .debs
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| 12:52 | I.e. "the code for ltsp-cluster is in upstream ltsp, it isn't an ubuntu-specific thing..."
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| 12:53 | <indradg> stgraber, alkisg, so if one wants to play with the latest version of ltsp-cluster do one use Ubuntu 9.10 or a PPA repo or should I go back and RTFM more? =P
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| 13:36 | <Gadi> wow, I go off for one meeting and we've increased the boot time by two orders of magnitude? :)
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| 13:36 | alkisg, vagrantc: bravo
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| 13:36 | <vbundi> sounds like you need to take longer lunch breaks ;P
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| 13:36 | <Gadi> definitely
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| 13:37 | <vbundi> hey question for ya...
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| 13:37 | <Gadi> I feel like George Castanza
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| 13:37 | <vbundi> haha
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| 13:37 | * vagrantc suspects the overall boot speed won't increase by a fraction of an order of magnitude | |
| 13:37 | <vbundi> I've got my boot down to 2:05.. which is great.. but my chart is completely different now, I'm getting a very long string of ldm, basename, egrep - repeats a lot
| |
| 13:37 | <alkisg> Gadi: even though the old run_parts_list needed 14 secs to process /usr/bin, and the new one needs only 0.04, I didn't notice any actual speed difference on boot...
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| 13:38 | Of course my /usr/bin has 1400 files :D
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| 13:38 | <johnny> isn't that what they just fixed vbundi ?
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| 13:38 | <Gadi> vbundi: thats what we just fixed
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| 13:38 | :)
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| 13:38 | <vbundi> oh is that what you meant ;)
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| 13:38 | <johnny> alkisg, you must be loosing it elsewhere?
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| 13:39 | alkisg, what's your boot chart like now?
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| 13:39 | <Gadi> alkisg: you'll feel it on slower single-threaded CPU clients
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| 13:39 | <alkisg> I'm trying to get a bootchart, but my clients hangs - out of memory :(
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| 13:39 | Gadi: the one I'm using is too slow :)
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| 13:40 | (128 ram / 400? or something like that CPU)
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| 13:40 | <Gadi> alkisg: are you using all of the latest upstream fixes
| |
| 13:40 | <alkisg> HP T1500 I think
| |
| 13:40 | <Gadi> or just putting in a few here and there?
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| 13:40 | <alkisg> No, not all of them, just that one change
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| 13:40 | + whatever is on stgraber's ppa for lucid
| |
| 13:40 | <alincoln> hey folks - LOCAL_APPS_EXTRAMOUNTS is broken upstream and has been probably since October. filed this bug with a patch to fix it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/521147
| |
| 13:41 | <vagrantc> alincoln: thanks!
| |
| 13:41 | <alincoln> :)
| |
| 13:42 | <Gadi> alincoln: the opts needed quoting?
| |
| 13:42 | * Gadi wonders why homedir works | |
| 13:42 | <alincoln> Gadi: it's explained in the bug report
| |
| 13:42 | because IFS isn't set to , there
| |
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| 13:43 | <vagrantc> IFS, your wonderful and terrible freind.
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| 13:43 | <alincoln> hehe
| |
| 13:43 | <Gadi> clever
| |
| 13:43 | <vbundi> so, my clients seem to work decently on a linux Desktop, and running the terminal server app from that desktop actually seems faster than running it in a screen_xx= setup..... is it all in my head or what
| |
| 13:44 | <Gadi> vbundi: that could be
| |
| 13:44 | when rdesktop runs on the client, rdesktop and xorg compete for CPU cycles
| |
| 13:45 | <vbundi> which would still be the case when running it from the linux desktop no?
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> when rdesktop runs on the server, it uses CPU cycles and so xorg is free to go crazy on the client
| |
| 13:45 | <vbundi> ohh
| |
| 13:45 | <Gadi> rdesktop on server uses server CPU
| |
| 13:46 | <vbundi> ohh I see so by running rdesktop in a screen its actually running it on the local client vs the server
| |
| 13:46 | <Gadi> right
| |
| 13:46 | <vbundi> that makes sense
| |
| 13:46 | <Gadi> brb
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| 13:48 | <alkisg> Ugh, if bootchart is installed, and update-initramfs / ltsp-update-kernels are called, but ltsp-update-image is *not* called, bootchart goes crazy and it consumes all the RAM :)
| |
| 13:49 | <vagrantc> wow
| |
| 13:49 | <vbundi> does yours actually give you a "run out of ram" message?
| |
| 13:50 | I'm wondering if that was happening to me.. my TC seemed to hang a few times on boot but is good now and nothing changed except for running update-image
| |
| 13:50 | but I didn't get any memory error
| |
| 13:50 | <alkisg> My bootchart: http://imagebin.org/84572
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| 13:51 | <alkisg> vbundi: yeah, and it starts killing processes...
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| 13:52 | <vbundi> wow your terminal kicks mines ass
| |
| 13:52 | where's it killing stuff though I don't see it
| |
| 13:53 | here's my fastest yet.... http://imagebin.org/84573 still quite a bit messier than yours
| |
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| 13:54 | <vbundi> must be all those lucid changes...
| |
| 13:56 | alkisg: I don't see in your chart where it's killing stuff
| |
| 13:56 | <vagrantc> alincoln: committed your patch :)
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| 13:56 | <alincoln> vagrantc: thanks!
| |
| 13:57 | * vagrantc rummages around for launchpad login creds. | |
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| 13:59 | <etyack> what are people using as an alternative to adobe flash for watching youtube?
| |
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| 13:59 | <vbundi> I think swfdec is pretty good
| |
| 13:59 | <vagrantc> there's some tricks to using vlc, i've heard
| |
| 14:00 | <alkisg> vbundi: I updated the image - I couldn't get the chart otherwise...
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| 14:00 | etyack: youtube has an html5 option nowadays, so that might be better...
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| 14:01 | <vbundi> alkisg: yeah I was wondering how you got a chart if you ran out of memeory
| |
| 14:01 | brb rebooting
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| 14:01 | <etyack> alkisg: tried it with chrome, but will it work with FF?
| |
| 14:01 | <alkisg> Not currently. I don't know what will happen eventually...
| |
| 14:01 | But that would be the most stable option...
| |
| 14:02 | There's a totem youtube plugin. Very fast, a little unstable
| |
| 14:02 | There's a KDE app == youtube client - haven't tried it
| |
| 14:02 | <vagrantc> options, options, options :)
| |
| 14:02 | <etyack> the totem plugin would be transparent to the user
| |
| 14:02 | <alkisg> No, you go to totem to search for youtube videos
| |
| 14:02 | With a closed browser...
| |
| 14:02 | <etyack> ahh
| |
| 14:03 | <alkisg> It's there on the default ubuntu install - I don't know about other distros
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| 14:03 | <etyack> we need it to embed with the browser
| |
| 14:03 | <alkisg> There's also a greasemonkey script that changes the youtube page on the fly to use vlc / mplayer etc
| |
| 14:04 | Works fine, but it breaks whenever the youtube page gets updated...
| |
| 14:04 | If it was on a PPA, and got frequent updates, and if we were able to install it for all users, that would be the best option currently - but it isn't, unfortunately...
| |
| 14:05 | !flash
| |
| 14:05 | <ltspbot> alkisg: "flash" :: Yes, flash sucks. Make sure you have LDM_DIRECTX=True in your lts.conf file, or if it's just youtube you're after, try the HQtube plugin. Install greasemonkey for firefox, and see http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24999
| |
| 14:05 | <etyack> ltspbot you rock!
| |
| 14:05 | <ltspbot> etyack: Error: "you" is not a valid command.
| |
| 14:07 | <alincoln> haha
| |
| 14:07 | <etyack> thanks for the info
| |
| 14:08 | <alkisg> Gadi: can't we combine all the amixer calls into one?
| |
| 14:09 | <vagrantc> alkisg: on a rampage!
| |
| 14:09 | <alkisg> :D
| |
| 14:09 | * alkisg learned how to get bootcharts... beware! | |
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| 14:17 | <Gadi> alkisg: I am not sure if amixer can set more than one channel perl line
| |
| 14:17 | *per
| |
| 14:17 | but, it's worth looking into
| |
| 14:17 | <alkisg> Gadi, I've never even seen it before, but the man page says "..." and I hope it means "more parameters" :D
| |
| 14:18 | <Gadi> A simple mixer control must be specified. Only one device can be
| |
| 14:18 | controlled at a time.
| |
| 14:18 | but I suppose that means one device
| |
| 14:18 | not one channel
| |
| 14:23 | <alkisg> Gadi, see the --stdin option
| |
| 14:23 | <Gadi> alkisg: I think ur out of luck on that one - but I did add VOLUME_MANUAL=<bool> the other day that should help save some time on slower clients
| |
| 14:24 | <alkisg> Read from stdin and execute the command on each line sequentially. When this option is given, the command in command-line arguments is ignored.
| |
| 14:24 | <Gadi> so, you argue that one amixer with several ssets will be faster than several amixers
| |
| 14:25 | worth a try
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| 14:29 | <alkisg> 1000 calls => 0m6.538s vs 0m0.031s
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| 14:29 | It's a difference, but not a noticable one...
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| 14:30 | ...as there won't be more than a dozen calls to amixer...
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| 14:30 | Anyway it's still an improvement if you have some time to spare on it
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| 14:30 | <vbundi> on my client I see more than a dozen amixer calls in my bootchart
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| 14:31 | <alkisg> Yeah, those could be reduced to just 2, but I don't think there'll be any noticable speed improvement.
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| 14:31 | <vbundi> hmm
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| 14:32 | <vbundi> my client takes about 40 seconds doing amixer calls
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| 14:32 | <alkisg> But it does other things along with that
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| 14:33 | <vbundi> yeah
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| 14:33 | <vagrantc> the flies will not notice shaving 100 hairs off of a camel.
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| 14:33 | <vbundi> ^ that's deep for a friday.
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| 14:33 | <johnny> so.. where's the big win then..
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| 14:34 | any left?
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> i'm glad we've done a lot of these optimizations... and i suspect all of them added up will be noticeable... or at least measureable.
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| 14:35 | <vbundi> vagrantc: unless there are only 101 hairs left on that camel ;)
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> Gadi: http://alkisg.pastebin.com/d3a70c6ee
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| 14:35 | <vbundi> optimizations, while may not be as significant on newer faster hardware, make all the difference running the old stuff tho
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| 14:35 | <vagrantc> the real danger is recursive loops that grow... that stuff is disasterous.
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| 14:36 | my main interest in thin clients is to support older hardware... or at least, that's how i got started.
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> !vagrantc++
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| 14:36 | <johnny> vagrantc, but what is called older hardware at freegeek is changing .. ?
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> johnny: yup. current mimimum spec is typically 1.8GHz.
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| 14:37 | <johnny> whoa
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> make exceptions in some cases, but in general... it's crazy.
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| 14:37 | <johnny> quite expansive .. i thoughti t was 800mhz ..
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| 14:37 | that was 2 years ago tho..
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| 14:37 | <vagrantc> yup
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| 14:38 | <johnny> 800mhz is still pretty good as long as you stuff it with a 1gb of ram
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> What's that S25ltsp-client- that I see on my bootchart?
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| 14:45 | Got it
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| 14:48 | <vbundi> <vagrantc> johnny: yup. current mimimum spec is typically 1.8GHz. --- For a terminal??
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| 14:48 | <knipwim> my user won't login and i'm seeing the following error on the client
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| 14:48 | agetty[4109]: tty1: read: Inappropriate ioctl for device
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| 14:48 | <vagrantc> vbundi: freegeek does computer re-use and recycling. the ones we re-use are 1.8+
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| 14:48 | <knipwim> where should i look?
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| 14:49 | <vagrantc> vbundi: http://freegeek.org for more info
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| 14:57 | <vbundi> damn I didn't think of doing that
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| 14:58 | they have lots of SFF 2.8GhZ P4 Dells on ebay for like 80 bucks a pop.
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| 14:58 | <Gadi> alkisg: looks good to me
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| 14:59 | <alkisg> Gadi: I could also help with sed if you want to speed things up...
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| 15:00 | Ah, no, only one sed there, nm
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| 15:00 | <Gadi> alkisg: go ahead and commit a fix for that
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| 15:00 | * Gadi wonders when stgraber plans to roll packages next | |
| 15:00 | <alkisg> Gadi, could you do it? I'm really unfamiliar with amixer...
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| 15:00 | <Gadi> oh, sure I guess
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| 15:01 | I will need you to test
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| 15:01 | I am not in a good position to test atm
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| 15:01 | <alkisg> ok, no problem there
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| 15:05 | * alkisg also hopes that setting all the controls together might help with the feedback problem... | |
| 15:06 | <Gadi> pushed
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| 15:06 | nah - the feedback problem is because I adjust *all* volume channels by default
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| 15:06 | <Gadi> so, MIC and FRONT MIC get boosted to 90%
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| 15:07 | when nothing is specified
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| 15:07 | I should prolly have a lower default for MIC*
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| 15:07 | or *MIC*
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> Gadi, so if I boot that TC with the ubuntu live cd, and see the volumes, and specify those in lts.conf, it won't get the problem?
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| 15:08 | <Gadi> right
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| 15:08 | <alkisg> ty
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| 15:08 | * Gadi is not sure if the liveCD adjusts volumes or leaves it up to the driver | |
| 15:08 | <Gadi> since the liveCD ultimately boots a desktop that the user can use to adjust volumes
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| 15:11 | <alkisg> Gadi, I think that whole loop should be rewritten as:
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| 15:11 | while read line; do .... done < LANG=C amixer -c0 scontents > amixer -c0 sset --stdin
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| 15:11 | ...and replace all the amixer calls inside it with simple echo's
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| 15:11 | <johnny> echo? why not just one echo?
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| 15:12 | use a var..
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| 15:12 | <Gadi> alkisg: thats what I did
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| 15:12 | <johnny> don't echo until you've assembled the whole thing..
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> johnny, pipes are better than accumulating stuff in a var...
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| 15:12 | <johnny> faster?
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| 15:12 | <alkisg> E.g. imagine 2000 string concatenations
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| 15:12 | <johnny> sounds slower..
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> johnny: I've seen Delphi code that needed *days* to complete because of that problem
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| 15:13 | <johnny> obviously pick your battles..
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| 15:13 | <alkisg> ...and, when rewritten properly, it took some msec
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| 15:13 | <johnny> smalle stuff works better without pipes.. :)
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| 15:13 | larger stuff..
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> The pipe will be there in any case
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> alkisg: did you see my commit?
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| 15:14 | <alkisg> Gadi, no - checking...
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| 15:14 | <Gadi> quite an easy diff
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> sudo cp client/initscripts/ltsp-init-common /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ltsp/ltsp-init-common && sudo ltsp-update-image && reboot client, right?
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| 15:18 | <Gadi> that should work
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| 15:19 | I just thought of something - we should be careful to make sure we don't go through the loop in cases where we don't echo anything
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| 15:19 | which would happen right now if you set VOLUME_MANUAL=True without setting any channels
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| 15:20 | or at least we should make sure that it exits gracefully
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| 15:20 | that should be something to test
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| 15:26 | <Gadi> gotta run, guys
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| 15:29 | * alkisg doesn't get it. /usr/share/ltsp/init-client-common does have the modified code in the client, but the bootchart still contains multiple alsa calls?! | |
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| 15:35 | <vagrantc> should also test it on older versions of amixer
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| 15:38 | <alkisg> How can I do what bootchart does, i.e. log processes, on a test script, to see if amixer spawns processes itself?
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| 15:38 | <johnny> replace amixer with a shell script
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| 15:38 | that's one way..
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| 15:39 | <alkisg> Hmmm if amixer spawns $0, that won't work....
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| 15:42 | <alkisg> Argh... amixer.c doesn't seem to spawn anything... what gives?
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| 15:42 | <johnny> are you using nfs? or nbd?
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| 15:43 | you might want to switch to nfs if you're doing all this live work..
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| 15:44 | <vbundi> is there a case where nbd is better than nfs?
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| 15:44 | <johnny> obviously
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| 15:44 | <vagrantc> it's faster
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| 15:44 | <johnny> otherwise we wouldn't default to it in ubuntu
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| 15:44 | <johnny> vbundi, why would you imagine it would be default if it wasn't better????
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| 15:44 | <vbundi> err for some reason I Was thinking nfs was the default
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| 15:44 | <johnny> ah
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| 15:44 | <vbundi> I am mixed up
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| 15:45 | <johnny> nfs is better if you're changing stuff to test things
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| 15:45 | * vagrantc has experienced many defaults that worsen things | |
| 15:45 | <vagrantc> NFS is the default on debian
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| 15:45 | until recently, the other options require too much futzing to get working
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| 15:46 | and even now, the approach ubuntu takes isn't very stable on debian.
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| 15:47 | stgraber: any new patches for nbd-proxy? i haven't had that working without reverting to the code from 5.1.99
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| 15:47 | <vbundi> well I'm glad to say that my LTSP5 performance is now on par with my LTSP4 performance, minus the boot time being about a minute longer which is not a big deal for these guys
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| 15:48 | <johnny> good!
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| 15:48 | <vbundi> that being said, when I spoke to them it sounded like they are on board with upgrading the thin clients now anyways... lol
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| 15:48 | <johnny> let's kill ltsp4 dead.. :)
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| 15:49 | <vagrantc> we should poll ltsp-discuss about installations using ltsp4 ... and make them offers of "protection"
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> What does ltsp4 offer? sound? usb sticks?
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> for the adventurous
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| 15:51 | <alkisg> (more than X -query, that is...)
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| 15:51 | <vagrantc> yes, it was possible. but not as well integrated.
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| 15:52 | coming from someone who only jumped on the muekow bandwagon as one of those new upstarts trying to change everything :)
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| 15:52 | * alkisg thinks of trying ltsp4 for some 32mb clients :P :D | |
| 15:52 | <alkisg> (nah :D)
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| 15:52 | * vagrantc adds alkisg to "The List" | |
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| 15:55 | <highvoltage> zomg The List
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| 15:56 | <alkisg> Urm, ok. I changed the amixer call to "true", and I still have sound, and I still have those amixer processes on the bootchart
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| 15:56 | So... something else runs amixer :)
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| 15:57 | <stgraber> vagrantc: current version is considered "stable" ;) I was waiting for highvoltage to do some VBox test to see what's wrong as alkisg reported it doesn't work in VBox
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| 15:57 | <vagrantc> stgraber: ah, all my tests on qemu failed as well.
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| 15:58 | <alkisg> speaking of which, highvoltage, did you do any tests?
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| 15:58 | * alkisg has heard of a fellow teacher that had problems with nbd-proxy on a real client | |
| 16:00 | <alkisg> Ah, finally, saw it. There are two things that use amixer, and I was looking at the wrong one :)
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| 16:00 | Yeah, 20 secs ==> less that 1 sec
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| 16:01 | Good job
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| 16:01 | <johnny> so.. when are you gonna have to start prodding upstream to make more gains alkisg ?
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| 16:01 | <vagrantc> alkisg: that the while ... ; do ... ; done | amixer ?
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> johnny: prodding ? (sorry haven't installed my dict yet on lucid :D)
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| 16:02 | vagrantc: yes
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| 16:02 | <johnny> poking?
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| 16:02 | <alkisg> But the 20 secs => 1 sec is not a real gain, as it doesn't really use CPU there
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| 16:02 | <johnny> trying to convince them to do stuff that makes things faster :)
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| 16:03 | <alkisg> Heh... Gadi put me into the whole thing - I was drinking my beer quietly, and he gave me all those crazy ideas about making things go faster :D
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| 16:05 | <vagrantc> listening to Gadi_eeepc while drinking... dangerous stuff.
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| 16:09 | <staffencasa> anyone using touchscreens on ltsp clients?
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| 16:09 | I'm stuck
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| 16:10 | <highvoltage> alkisg: my week has been a comedy of errors. every time I wanted to get to that something else went wrong
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| 16:10 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 16:11 | <highvoltage> oh yes my ltsp-build-client fails with "error: LTSP client installation ended abnormally"
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> That's with a fat or a thin client?
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| 16:11 | <highvoltage> thin
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| 16:11 | <alkisg> Any errors above that?
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| 16:11 | <highvoltage> nope
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> Put debug on...
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| 16:12 | <staffencasa> I have a fresh install of Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic, built the client, chrooted in and installed xserver-xorg-input-elographics, added a few lines to lts.conf, and nothing
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| 16:12 | <alkisg> highvoltage: DEBUG=True ltsp-build-client ...
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| 16:13 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yep, busy running...
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| 16:16 | <vbundi> so these guys are willing to spend a bit of cache to get some better clients... I was thinking of some 2.8Ghz P4 Thick clients as they're about $100/ea and they only want 5
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| 16:17 | <staffencasa> does anyone even use touchscreens or know how it should work?
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| 16:17 | <vbundi> then they'll just take these HP Terminals and hand em down for basic stuff like employee email
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| 16:18 | staffencasa: you might be better off asking that kind of question in an xorg channel
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| 16:18 | <highvoltage> alkisg: happens right after "DEBUG: Loading plugin: install: /usr/share/ltsps/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu/025-locales
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> highvoltage: ah, I know the problem
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| 16:19 | <vbundi> staffencasa: I tried setting one up once and unless you're lucky I think it requires a bunch of manual xorg.conf editing
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| 16:19 | <alkisg> highvoltage: It's the new libc or something like that, it uses .utf8 instead of .UTF-8, and that breaks everything... :(
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| 16:19 | <highvoltage> alkisg: how odd
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> highvoltage: so for schools here I'm setting LOCALE="el_GR.UTF-8", and that overrides the autodetected value, and it works
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| 16:20 | <vbundi> so what do you guys think, is spending $100 on a 2.8Ghz thick client a good idea? Newer atom based clients are like $300+ and they don't wanna go that route
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| 16:20 | <alkisg> But we should patch LTSP to cope with that...
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| 16:21 | (settings LOCALE ==> in ltsp-build-client.conf)
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| 16:22 | <staffencasa> vbundi, is there a way to at least tell what modules are loaded on the client?
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| 16:23 | because at this point we aren't sure where the problem lies
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| 16:23 | <vbundi> staffencasa: first get it working on an ubuntu desktop, plug your USB for your touchscreen in and check your logs like dmesg
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| 16:24 | <staffencasa> it's a built-in serial screen, though :(
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| 16:24 | <alkisg> highvoltage: it might also be a gdm problem. What do you get with `echo $LANG` in your server xorg, and what do you get in vt1?
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| 16:25 | <highvoltage> alkisg: en_ZA.utf8
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| 16:25 | <vbundi> staffencasa: yeah... good luck sorry I can't really help
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| 16:25 | <alkisg> highvoltage: and, on vt1? (alt+ctrl+f1, login..)
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| 16:26 | <staffencasa> k, thanks anyways
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| 16:26 | <highvoltage> alkisg: same from a vt
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| 16:26 | <alkisg> highvoltage: you don't get en_ZA.UTF-8 with caps?
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| 16:27 | <vbundi> staffencasa: again I'd check with the xorg guys, getting a touchscreen to work is like getting a serial mouse to work, the serial data just has to be interpereted properly
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| 16:27 | <highvoltage> alkisg: nope
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| 16:27 | <vbundi> staffencasa: ie, not an ltsp thing
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| 16:27 | <alkisg> highvoltage: ok, so it's not a gdm problem. :( OK let me give you a quick fix for 025-locales..
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| 16:31 | <alkisg> # locale-gen can't handle LANG.utf8 locales, it needs LANG.UTF-8.
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| 16:31 | if [ "$LOCALE" != "${LOCALE%utf8}" ]
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| 16:31 | LOCALE="${LOCALE%utf8}UTF-8"
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| 16:31 | fi
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| 16:31 | highvoltage: right below if [ -z "$LOCALE" ]; then
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| 16:31 | LOCALE="$LANG"
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| 16:31 | fi
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| 16:31 | *below of
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| 16:32 | <staffencasa> vbundi, k, I'm going to try and just install ubuntu on the client (bypass ltsp) and get the touchscreen to work there. I think this will help resolve this.
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| 16:33 | <alkisg> highvoltage: sorry, it also needs a "then" :D
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| 16:34 | <vbundi> staffencasa: yeah that's a good place to start, once you get it working it's just a matter of enabling the working configuration in your chroot
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| 16:34 | <vbundi> staffencasa: what kind/model of terminal is it?
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| 16:35 | <staffencasa> the hard part's getting ubuntu on the machine. It's an old box with only a floppy (No CD) and no option to boot to usb in the bios. It's a PioneerPOS PXi
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| 16:35 | Celeron 566 :)
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| 16:36 | but I can ghost it
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| 16:36 | <alkisg> staffencasa: how much ram?
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| 16:36 | <staffencasa> i think it's 256, but it might be 128
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| 16:36 | I forget
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| 16:36 | <vbundi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PXEInstall
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| 16:36 | staffencasa: ^
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| 16:36 | <the_fronny> Anyone here have any experience with Acer Aspire Revo 1600s in LTSP5? Along the lines of video probing and network drivers.
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| 16:37 | <staffencasa> I'm PXE Booting it from a floppy
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| 16:37 | <alkisg> staffencasa: see the automation script there: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot#line-75 - but your RAM is too little for the live cd...
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| 16:37 | You might need the text mode installer :-/
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| 16:38 | <highvoltage> alkisg: great thanks
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| 16:38 | <alkisg> highvoltage: if it works, tell me, so that I commit it...
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| 16:40 | <vbundi> the_fronny: search google for "nvidia ION LTSP5" , peopleare doing it, but it might require some tweaking for video... some information here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/AtomIon
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| 16:40 | <the_fronny> Thanks vbundi!
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| 16:41 | <vbundi> the_fronny: yeah install vdpau in your chroot and play full 1080P video on a thin client.. lol
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| 16:43 | <the_fronny> vibundi: Ha! That's the last thing my users need to know about...
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| 16:47 | <highvoltage> alkisg: yep it went fine
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