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03:16 | <muh2000> hi
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03:17 | what was it to have the bash instead of X on a ltsp client? Screen_0 = shell ?
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03:21 | al the ltsp client is doing is blinking the error msg of X :(
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03:21 | and since it is blinking i cannot really read it. only something about dbus not working.
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03:26 | <muh2000> hmm x wants to load module amd.
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04:07 | <muh2000> screenshot what it lookslike in a vm: http://imagebin.ca/view/4RyY1A.html http://imagebin.ca/view/eM8m36Ea.html both are blinking all the time :( dunno what is wrong.
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04:08 | <ogra> thats a very old kernel for such a new Xorg ... are you running debian unstable ?
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04:09 | <muh2000> squeeze. (testing)
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04:09 | <ogra> i think vagrantc doesnt have unstable moved over completely to the new xinput architecture
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04:09 | <muh2000> is NOT unstable.
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04:09 | <ogra> oh, well, squeeze should actuall work
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04:10 | <muh2000> :(
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04:10 | <ogra> wait for vagrantc
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04:10 | <muh2000> ok
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04:10 | <ogra> he does the debian port
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04:10 | what HW is that ?
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04:11 | geode ?
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04:11 | (you said it loads amd above, geode is traditionally very problematic wrt Xorg drivers, you could try setting XSERVER=vesa and see if it boots with that)
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04:13 | <muh2000> yes geode that computer http://www.pcengines.ch/alix3d3.htm yeah the vga made lots of trouble in the past :( i try vesa.
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04:13 | ( xserver = geode used to work in the past)
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04:16 | <ogra> well, there is no actual upstream support for geode, thats the prob, if xserver grows new features it can take quite a while until geode works with them
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04:16 | <muh2000> also blinking with vesa.
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04:16 | <ogra> ok, then its not the driver at least
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04:16 | (if you are sure it actually loaded vesa)
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04:17 | <muh2000> ogra: i checked, it did NOT load vesa. still amd :(
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04:19 | <ogra> oh, i see that a) a new ltsp migrated to testing yesterday and b) a new ldm was uploaded to unstable too
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04:19 | <muh2000> hmmm
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04:19 | <ogra> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/revision/1352
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04:20 | <muh2000> when i try to update the system it always hangs at xserver configuration and portmap and fam and one more.
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04:20 | <ogra> is hal installed in your chroot
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04:20 | <muh2000> yes
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04:22 | <ogra> have a look at /opt/ltsp/armel/etc/default/ltsp-client-setup
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04:22 | err
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04:22 | s/armel/i386/ (sorry only running arm clients here atm)
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04:22 | does it contain /var/cache/hald ?
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04:23 | <muh2000> http://nopaste.org/p/ahgRsBnrJ
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04:23 | nah
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04:23 | <ogra> try adding that dir to rw_dirs for a test
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04:24 | and /var/lib/dbus/ too
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04:24 | <muh2000> k rebooting the client.
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04:25 | <muh2000> same error, still trying to load amd
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04:26 | <ogra> still blinking i guess
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04:26 | <muh2000> yes
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04:27 | <ogra> well, you could try going through the changes in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk/changes that hapened since 5.1.81 (which seems to be whats in testing) and see if anything helps
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04:28 | i know the 5.1.83 we have in ubuntu karmic largely works (though i havent heard feedback from geode users yet)
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04:28 | <muh2000> i try
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04:29 | <ogra> does it contain /var/cache/hald ? there is a type. only "hal" not "hald" according to launchpad.
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04:29 | <ogra> nope
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04:29 | look a little above it ;)
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04:30 | <muh2000> lol ok
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04:30 | <ogra> (1342)
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04:30 | i implemented the hal and dbus stuff in ubuntu a while ago so i know the dirs :)
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04:30 | <muh2000> :)
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04:30 | where is that ? client/initscripts/ltsp-core
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04:30 | <ogra> (we use the setup debian just switches to since a year or so)
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04:31 | in /etc/init.d/ in your chroot
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04:31 | <muh2000> i dont have that file :/
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04:32 | <ogra> look for ltsp-client-core
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04:32 | <muh2000> yeah i have that
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04:32 | <ogra> and ltsp-client-setup, that are the names in debian and ubuntu
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04:32 | <muh2000> ok
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04:32 | <ogra> one runs in rcS the other in rc2
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04:33 | -core is what actually starts ldm (or any other screen scripts)
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04:35 | <muh2000> server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Debian/095-squashfs-image also cannot find. well squashfs shouldnt be related to the issue i am having anyway...
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04:36 | <ogra> not really unless you switched your setup to nbd
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04:36 | <muh2000> dunno
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04:37 | <ogra> the ltsp-build-client plugins live on the server btw, not in the chroot
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04:37 | well, do you use NFS ? (then you dont use nbd)
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04:37 | <muh2000> nfs it is.
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04:37 | <ogra> i think its the default in debian to use NFS
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04:37 | <muh2000> but it always had nbd running and installing too. i dont know why, i cannot look through this.
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04:37 | <ogra> right, ubuntu defaults to nbd ... its way faster and uses less bandwith (but requires a bit more client CPU)
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04:38 | afaik ubuntu and suses kiwi-ltsp are the only implementations defaulting to nbd
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04:38 | <muh2000> ok
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04:42 | i tried to fix as much as possible but still that stupid blinking bug :(
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04:47 | <ogra> https://launchpad.net/~q-funk/+archive/ppa would be another option, but i dont know how well they work in debian
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04:49 | but the git versioning looks like its only 5 days old
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04:49 | <alkisg> Hi ogra, got 5' to comment on a crazy idea of mine about fat clients?
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04:50 | <ogra> if it only commenting and not committing ;)
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04:50 | <alkisg> Sure :)
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04:50 | Well, it goes like this: there's 1 "server" pc with just a desktop ubuntu on it. No ltsp, no chroots.
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04:51 | In this PC I install nfs and export /.
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04:51 | I also put a small script like ltsp-client-setup in init.d
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04:51 | Then I put dnsmasq/tftp and netboot some clients. The clients run the ltsp-client-setup (of sorts) script and get a tmpfs on the needed locations (/var/tmp etc)
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04:52 | This way, *if it works* I can have a fat client lab by only administering 1 PC
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04:52 | <ogra> would work if you exported / readonly and had some sort of unionfs mount with a tmpfs
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04:52 | <alkisg> And I can even have shared user account because /etc/passwd is shared with nfs (along with all the /etc)
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04:52 | Security is of no concern (I know it sucks security-wise)
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04:52 | <ogra> the prob is that NFS and any kind of union mounts are no good friends
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04:53 | <alkisg> I was thinking of nfs and bind mounts only
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04:53 | All rw space would be in an nfs rw share
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04:53 | <ogra> thats a hell lot of work
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04:53 | largely re-implementing ltsp :)
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04:53 | <alkisg> Really? I thought ltsp-client-setup would be all that I needed...
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04:53 | <ogra> and it will take ages to boot
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04:53 | <alkisg> Basically, I tried it and it works; and fast; but only with 2 clients
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04:53 | I didn't try more
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04:54 | <ogra> because you will have to bind mount a huge amount more stuff
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04:54 | <alkisg> Isn't all necessary locations already in ltsp-client-setup?
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04:54 | <ogra> for getting up X, ldm and a minimal system, yes
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04:55 | <alkisg> Ah.
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04:55 | <ogra> if you want a whole desktop you will have to do a lot more
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04:55 | <alkisg> Should I try with nfs / read-only, or read-write?
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04:55 | <ogra> and the bind mounting of while dirs takes ages
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04:55 | <alkisg> (I really don't care about security :))
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04:55 | <ogra> readonly
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04:55 | it will very likely break if you do it rw
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04:56 | * alkisg tried with rw so far... :-/ | |
04:56 | <ogra> hw related autodetection will overwrite each other etc
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04:56 | you will very quickly mess up your server install
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04:56 | <alkisg> ogra, so, if I give it enough time, do you think I will be able to get it to work? (ok, ro / nfs)
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04:56 | Or are there shared locations where it will break no matter what I do?
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04:57 | <ogra> sure, but it will take you as long as re-implementing ltsp until you have chaken out all bugs
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04:57 | *shaken
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04:57 | <alkisg> Hmmm I thought I'd only have to do mounts... :(
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04:57 | <ogra> no, it wont break if / is exported readonly
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04:58 | <alkisg> What about nfs-shared /etc/passwd? That would work, won't it? (again, no security-concerns...)
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04:58 | <ogra> i'd recommend using something like livecd-rootfs, hack that up a bit and have an nbd image of a full desktop install instead, then hack up ltsp to support that
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04:58 | that would be a proper fat client
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04:59 | <alkisg> I'm trying to avoid maintaing a chroot, to ease administration for teachers
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04:59 | <ogra> well, then you have to write it from scratch
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04:59 | ltsp from concept to first usable releae took us a year with 4 developers, two of them fulltime
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05:00 | so do your math :)
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05:00 | <alkisg> Sure, I don't mind the work. I'm just worried for the case where I'll invest much time and hit a wall somewhere, and it can't be done...
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05:00 | <ogra> you will surely find probs you never saw in ltsp
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05:00 | <alkisg> This won't have anything to do with hardware, sound, ldm etc though
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05:00 | Only mounting stuff...
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05:00 | <ogra> udev rules that get created at install time for example
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05:01 | <alkisg> Yeah I had to clear net-rules...
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05:01 | <ogra> for sure it will have to do a lot with HW
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05:01 | and even more in newer releases
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05:02 | <alkisg> I meant detecting stuff, loading modules etc like ltsp does. All the hardware stuff would be on /var/project/mac-address/etc/nfs-bind-mounted-dir...
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05:02 | <ogra> i'd go with something like a livecd and ldap setup
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05:02 | <alkisg> Hmmm that doesn't sound bad...
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05:02 | <ogra> yes, as i said, you can do that but will end up with something ltsp like
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05:03 | and it will take a lot of time to identify all the probs you run into that are caused by that setup
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05:03 | <alkisg> Yeah that last one is what I'm afraid the most
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05:03 | OK thanks a lot ogra, it's really good having a pro-dev handy :) :) :)
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05:03 | Much appreciated
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05:04 | <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDNetboot btw
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05:08 | * alkisg looks.. also btw, drbl does something like what I have in mind, but it seems to me that they do it in very broken ways... | |
05:09 | <ogra> they do
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05:09 | and its sad that they didnt just contribute to ltsp to do it proper
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05:10 | * alkisg also netbooted ubuntu from http once | |
05:10 | <ogra> there is also tcos that does it in differently freaky ways :)
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05:10 | <alkisg> Heh. tcos is for thin clients, not fat. And for thin clients... ltsp ftw!
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05:11 | <ogra> right, but tcos could be changed to do fat clients (like ltsp could )
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05:11 | <alkisg> But for core 2 duo CPUs it's a shame to work them as thin clients
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05:11 | A "correct" fat client solution should emerge...
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05:12 | Localapps are ok but not for full-blown setups. E.g. I have to install 4 Gb of proprietary edu apps, I can't install them as localapps...
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05:12 | <ogra> geez, Larry Ellison's salary was cut to $1 !
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05:12 | must be hard to be the owner of a company nowadays ... you cant earn any money :P
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05:12 | <alkisg> Heh would it make any difference for him if it was 100.000$ ?
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05:13 | <ogra> i doubt it :)
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05:13 | <alkisg> ...with an estimated net worth of $22.5 billion :D
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05:13 | <ogra> he apparently earned a million/year before
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05:14 | * ogra wonders how that looks in a CV ... in my last job my salary was cut by $999999 once | |
05:14 | * alkisg wonders what would Ellison need a CV for! | |
05:15 | <ogra> you never know how far this recession might go *g*
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05:15 | <alkisg> Still no announces about OOo and vbox though... :-/
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05:15 | <ogra> well, he would be silly to kill either
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05:21 | <Q-FUNK> re
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05:24 | <Q-FUNK> stgraber: here?
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05:29 | <DawnLight> hello
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05:32 | <DawnLight> RRQ from 192.168.55.3 filename /lts.conf
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05:32 | this is what the client asks the tftp server for
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05:33 | and the server doesn't find it because i didn't put it there
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06:09 | <DawnLight> the client is looking for /lts.conf while it should look for /ltsp/i386/lts.conf
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06:13 | <alkisg> DawnLight: distro/version?
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06:14 | <DawnLight> alkisg: ubuntu jaunty
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06:15 | <alkisg> DawnLight: the lts.conf location is determined from the "filename" dhcp option
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06:15 | <DawnLight> what determines the path where lts.conf is asked?
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06:15 | <alkisg> So, look (or upload) your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf
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06:15 | <DawnLight> alkisg: well, i've this in my dnsmasq.conf:
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06:15 | <alkisg> dnsmasq handles the tftp paths differently
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06:15 | Do you use the dnsmasq embedded tftp service, or tftp-hpa?
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06:16 | <DawnLight> dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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06:16 | tftp-hpa
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06:16 | <alkisg> OK, let me find the line for dnsmasq...
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06:16 | <DawnLight> i think i know how to look
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06:16 | <alkisg> It's: tftp-root=/ltsp/i386
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06:16 | <alkisg> You put than in dnsmasq.conf
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06:17 | <DawnLight> alkisg: where did you get that?
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06:17 | <alkisg> What do you mean?
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06:17 | <DawnLight> i look in 'dnsmasq --help dhcp'
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06:17 | there's no such thing there
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06:18 | <alkisg> man dnsmasq => search for tftp-root
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06:18 | <DawnLight> that option seems to be for the built-in tftp server
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06:18 | while what i need is the dhcp option
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06:19 | <alkisg> Hmmm you may be right; but I have it in my dnsmasq.conf and it works for me
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06:19 | <DawnLight> which seems to be 67
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06:19 | <alkisg> Let me see what other options I have there...
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06:19 | <DawnLight> well do you use the buil-in?
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06:19 | <alkisg> No
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06:19 | Ah, here's another one that might trouble you: dhcp-no-override
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06:19 | If you don't enable that, then ipconfig can't get the filename from option 67
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06:20 | <DawnLight> dnsmasq --help dhcp | grep 67
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06:20 | <alkisg> Because it can only get the filename from the embeded option space in the dhcp struct
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06:20 | <alkisg> Do you have dhcp-no-override?
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06:20 | <DawnLight> nope
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06:20 | <alkisg> OK, that's your problem then
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06:21 | <alkisg> It's a "bug" in ipconfig; there are 2 way to provide a filename in the dhcp protocol; ipconfig only looks in one of them.
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06:22 | * alkisg notes down that he doesn't need tftp-root after all :) | |
06:25 | <DawnLight> i added dhcp-option=67,/ltsp/i386/
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06:26 | <alkisg> ? and it worked without dhcp-no-override?
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06:28 | <DawnLight> doesn't work yet
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06:28 | <alkisg> Did you try putting a line with just "dhcp-no-override" there?
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06:28 | ...and of course, dhcp-boot=/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0
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06:32 | <DawnLight> trying
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06:35 | <alkisg> DawnLight: ah. another thing. How do you define your pxe class?
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06:35 | Because the ipconfig client in the initramfs sends "Linux ipconfig" as a vendor identifier, not "PXEClient"...
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06:37 | <DawnLight> what is ipconfig anyway?
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06:37 | <alkisg> It's the program that asks for an ip while the clients boot
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06:37 | <DawnLight> ah
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06:37 | that may be the problem
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06:37 | because it still asks for /lts.conf
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06:37 | <alkisg> Well if you uploaded your dnsmasq.conf I might be able to help more...
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06:39 | <DawnLight> dhcp-vendorclass=pxe,PXEClient , dhcp-boot=net:pxe,/ltsp/i386/pxelinux.0 , dhcp-no-override
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06:39 | three lines
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06:39 | besides the basic dhcp lease stuff
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06:40 | <alkisg> Yeah either remove the net: pxe in dhcp-boot, or include Linux ipconfig in the dhcp-vendorclass
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06:41 | <DawnLight> trying
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06:44 | huh
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06:44 | amazing
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06:45 | it worksez
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06:45 | thanks
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06:46 | <alkisg> You''re welcome.
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06:49 | <garymc> Hi anyone know what the guys name is whop knows stuff about LTSP cluster?
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06:50 | Also can anyone recommend a good FREE Irc client? As i was using Xchat and cos its run out im using Airc which aint so user freindly
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06:50 | <DawnLight> garymc: irssi
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06:50 | <garymc> does that work in windows?
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06:50 | <DawnLight> yes
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06:51 | <laga> mirc? ;)
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06:51 | <garymc> cool
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06:51 | ill get it now
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06:53 | is there just a file for windows cos im finding all compile stuff as if for Linux?
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06:58 | <DawnLight> garymc: http://irssi.org/files/irssi-win32-0.8.12.exe
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06:59 | <garymc> thanks
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07:04 | <garymc> What a killer, didnt like the irrsi
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07:04 | aint a clue on its use
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07:05 | <laga> ry mirc
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07:05 | try*
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07:05 | <garymc> anyone know of a more user freidnly Irc
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07:05 | yeah i gotta pay for that too though
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07:06 | <laga> i think there's chatzilla for mozilla/firefox
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07:06 | <garymc> ill give that a look now then
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07:08 | <NeonLicht> I can't think of anyone better than irssi
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07:08 | * laga nods | |
07:08 | <NeonLicht> so light, fast and responsive!
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07:08 | * laga nods | |
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07:15 | <garymc> Ahhh Chatzilla is cool
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07:15 | Ill stick with this
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07:18 | so anyone know who is the LTSP CLuster master?
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07:21 | <garymc> Sorry to be a pain in the arse but does anyone know why I keep having to identify my username with password each time i connect?
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07:22 | to freenode?
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07:26 | <knipwim> i think to prevent someone else from using your nick
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07:44 | <garymc> yeah but i dint have to do it all the time in Xchat
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07:44 | now i do in every other Irc client?
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07:45 | <garymc> well atleast i can get back on irc now :)
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07:45 | so anyone know anything about LTSP clustering?
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07:53 | <knipwim> garymc: https://wiki.stgraber.org/LTSP-Cluster
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07:54 | so i think stgraber might know something
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07:59 | <garymc> ahh thats the guy
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08:03 | <garymc> stgraber: If you can help me with Server clustering , would be much appreciated
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08:11 | <alkisg> garymc: the developers here are very friendly, but they don't have all the time in the world. They can sometimes help when some one has a specific question, but they usually don't have the time to walk everybody through every steps
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08:12 | So you'd have better chances if you read the docs, if you tried yourself to do it and came here with specific problems/questions
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10:21 | <jammcq> g'morning friends
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12:04 | <NeonLicht> eertyuijjj→↓←
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12:05 | <NeonLicht> łĸ
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12:06 | Sorry, trying to practice writting phonetic (IPA) symbols. :-)
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20:00 | <cliebow> yes..we throw human sacrifices into the ocean here in acacdia national park to appease hurricane gods..
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23:20 | <alkisg> Good morning
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23:21 | <sbalneav> ogra: About>
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23:21 | ?
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23:27 | <jammcq> sbalneav: hey
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23:28 | <sbalneav> hey jammcq!
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