IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 3 April 2019 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:12 | <alkisg> vagrantc: what's the recommended license these days? gpl 3+?
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| 05:12 | (for the new ltsp)
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| 05:40 | <vagrantc> alkisg: gpl3+ has some positive things, definitely
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| 05:40 | maybe even agpl
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| 05:42 | <alkisg> Thanks, putting this then: # SPDX-License-Identifier: GPL-3.0-or-later
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| 12:32 | <clef__> Hello, I've an Android phone and I would like to connect it to a thin client usb to access internal storage. Is it possible ?
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> Sure, with localapps
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| 12:59 | <clef__> Great ! Which application could this work ? Localapps is already enabled. (LOCAL_APPS_MENU=True)
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| 16:43 | <quagmire> Hi everyone, I am using LTSP on ubuntu 18.04 and I am having problems with using local devices (particularly USB keys) with thin clients.
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| 16:44 | I did set LOCALDEV=True in the lts.conf file but the situation doesn't change
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| 16:45 | <mwalters> are you able to mount them w/ a local terminal?
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| 16:45 | e.g., `ltsp-localapps sensible-terminal` ?
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| 16:45 | or with a locally run file manager
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| 16:46 | not sure if sensible terminal stuff gets put in a thin chroot
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| 16:46 | <quagmire> The clients can mount the USB keys, but they can't unmount them
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| 16:47 | <mwalters> not sure about that
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| 16:47 | <quagmire> The server, when a USB key is inserted makes a polkit error popup on all clients, about "org.freedesktop.udisks2.filesystem-mount-other-seat"
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| 16:47 | <mwalters> do you get an access denied error when trying to unmount them?
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| 16:48 | pretty sure regular users need to be in a particular group for removeable devices on ubuntu
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| 16:48 | (to mount/unmount)
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| 16:49 | <quagmire> yes, I get an "access denied" error
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| 16:49 | <mwalters> not sure how this works/relates to thinclients
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| 16:49 | plugdev I think?
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| 16:49 | <quagmire> I already tried adding all users to the "fuse" and "plugdev" group and the result is the same
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| 16:50 | <mwalters> that's likely only making them members on the server
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| 16:50 | man lts.conf
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| 16:50 | ops
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| 16:52 | Not really sure... it probably "should work"... I think most of the devs are using fat clients now, though
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| 16:58 | <quagmire> that is a problem for us, since we have installed over 500 thin clients in 35 laboratories, as you can see here: http://www.ltsp.org/stories/viewstory/?story_id=975&secret=40e329
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| 17:00 | <mwalters> are you able to unmount it manually using a local terminal?
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| 17:02 | <quagmire> I did open a local terminal using epoptes but it says that the device is not mounted. I can even mount it at the same time in the local OS and have write access on it. After that I can unmount it (but only in the local OS)
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| 17:03 | <mwalters> anything useful in /var/log/syslog on the client?
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| 17:09 | <quagmire> didn't find anything useful
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| 17:09 | <mwalters> sorry, not really sure. I don't have a way to test thin clients atm
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| 17:09 | wait around for a while and I'm sure someone smarter will chime in
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| 17:09 | <alkisg> quagmire: may I ask why you're using thin clients instead of fat ones? Are your clients that slow/old?
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| 17:10 | <mwalters> speak of the devil
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> O:-)
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| 17:10 | <quagmire> yes, both
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| 17:10 | <alkisg> I.e. which cpu and how much ram?
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| 17:12 | <quagmire> they vary from pentium to dual core maximum, with 256MB ram
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| 17:12 | <mwalters> alkisg: any thoughts to running the ltsp server in a container (e.g., lxc)?
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| 17:12 | <alkisg> Pentium 4's from 2.4 GHz and on, and dual core PCs work better as fat, provided they have at least 768 RAM
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| 17:12 | <mwalters> might try it here in a while, but curious if you've explored it at all
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> In any case, if you're talking about ltspfs and thin clients, there's no unmounting,
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| 17:13 | ltspfs syncs every two seconds, so you just need to wait 2 secs and then unplug the stick
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| 17:13 | <lopta> Do "fat clients" get updated automatically by the server?
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| 17:13 | <alkisg> mwalters: I don't know of any issues, but I'm not using virtualized ltsp servers in production
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| 17:14 | !fatclients
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| 17:14 | <ltsp> fatclients: Nowadays LTSP supports thin and fat clients. They are both diskless and netbooted from the same LTSP chroot, but while thin clients run the session on the server and transfer the screen, fat clients run the session locally with their own CPU/RAM, thus performing amazingly better. See also !ltsp-pnp and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/FatClients
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| 17:14 | <lopta> (I'm guessing they have their own Web browser?)
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| 17:14 | <mwalters> cool, I'll report back if I run into anything
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> lopta: it's just an ltsp-update-image -c /
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| 17:14 | <lopta> Thanks alkisg
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| 17:14 | <alkisg> I.e. they still don't have disks; they netboot the image from the server
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| 17:14 | The whole idea of ltsp is that you only need to maintain one or two images, not a lot of installations
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| 17:15 | <lopta> alkisg: That is an appealing idea.
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> !install
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| 17:15 | <ltsp> install: http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation/Ubuntu for Ubuntu, or http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Installation for other distributions
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| 17:15 | <alkisg> lopta: try a test installation some time, it takes 1 hour including the os installation
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| 17:15 | Follow the steps blindly
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| 17:15 | And customize later on...
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| 17:16 | <lopta> I'll need a spare server and switch.
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| 17:16 | brb
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| 17:16 | <quagmire> I don't get it: the ltspfs "fakes" mounting but actually just remembers what to do on a usb stick and syncs it every 2 seconds?
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| 17:18 | <alkisg> quagmire: well it needs to "fake" mounting since the process runs on the server and the stick is on the client
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| 17:18 | So yup, what you said
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| 17:18 | Note that thin clients are getting deprecated, they won't be supported in the next ltsp version
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| 17:18 | So people that need them should switch to ltsp for netbooting and xfreerdp/xrdp or something for the remote desktop part
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| 17:19 | So, ltspfs will be replaced by xfreerdp folder sharing
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| 17:20 | * lopta looks up xfreerdp | |
| 17:22 | <alkisg> lopta: your clients are pentium 4 and lower?
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| 17:22 | If not, ....just ignore thin clients :)
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| 17:23 | <lopta> alkisg: I don't have any clients yet, though I have a pallet full of dual-core i5 machines that could probably do the job at a push.
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| 17:23 | (i5 and i3, I think)
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| 17:23 | <alkisg> lopta: right, so completely ignore any mentions of thin clients
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| 17:23 | Go for fat ones, what we said previously
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| 17:24 | <lopta> alkisg: For fat clients, presumably the terminal network would have to be routed out to the Internet.
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| 17:24 | (if I want people to be able to browse the Web, etc.)
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| 17:25 | <alkisg> I'm not sure what you mean by that. Thin clients are remote desktop, fat clients are remote disk.
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| 17:25 | Both are netbooted
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| 17:25 | * lopta nods | |
| 17:25 | <alkisg> Your ltsp server will be remote, over WAN?
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| 17:26 | <lopta> alkisg: No, I was thinking the terminals would connect to the server over a separate Ethernet
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| 17:26 | ...but I'm used to running the applications on the server.
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| 17:26 | <alkisg> Networking is the same in both cases
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| 17:26 | It can be either single or dual nic
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| 17:27 | <lopta> Well in the thin client case the Internet doesn't have to be connected to the terminal LAN
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| 17:27 | ...for thick clients it would have to be. That's not necessarily a problem, just a consideration.
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| 17:27 | fat clients, I mean.
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| 17:27 | <alkisg> you can still do nat for fat clients
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| 17:28 | <lopta> alkisg: Right but you wouldn't have to for thin clients.
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| 17:30 | <quagmire> To solve my problem with USB keys, would it be possible to do a script to launch manually? If yes, where should I start from?
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| 17:30 | <lopta> quagmire: I missed your question but are you plugging USB flash drives into the terminals?
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| 17:32 | <quagmire> lopta: yes and the clients can operate on usb keys but can't unmount them. The server cannot do that as plugging a usb key pops up an form asking for the admin password on all clients
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| 17:33 | <lopta> quagmire: I'm guessing there's a way to configure on the server what happens when a flash drive is plugged into a terminal.
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| 17:33 | (mount it, ignore it or prompt?)
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| 17:44 | <alkisg> (08:28:18 PM) lopta: alkisg: Right but you wouldn't have to for thin clients. => sure but you're doing a whole remote desktop, much more expensive network-wise
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| 17:49 | <lopta> alkisg: In terms of network bandwidth? Sure.
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| 17:50 | <mwalters> https://store.ui.com/products/edgerouter-x
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| 17:50 | just a little bit more than a gbnic
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| 17:52 | <alkisg> lopta: not sure why you thought that not doing nat is an advantage... less configuration needed? it's automatic anyway
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| 17:53 | <lopta> alkisg: I can think of a few edge cases where I might prefer that. Not many.
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| 17:54 | Mostly it's just how I'm used to thinking about thin client deployments.
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| 17:54 | For LTSP I'll have to learn the new way.
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| 18:14 | <Leandro_> Hello guys. Could anyone please tell me what is the proper way to shutdown clients at a certain time everyday?
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| 18:14 | I'm using a chrootless install, and I can't seem to find info about it.
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| 18:15 | I tried to config CRONTAB_01 and SHUTDOWN_TIME in lts.conf but none of them worked.
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| 18:15 | <mwalters> http://wiki.ltsp.org/wiki/Tips_and_Tricks/User_Experience#Shutting_down_idle_clients
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| 18:15 | That gets you some of the way there
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| 18:15 | not sure how you translate that to chrootless, though
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| 18:16 | <Leandro_> I saw that, but that is for a chroot install, isn't it?
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| 18:16 | <mwalters> the file location, yes... those files probably exist in a chrootless install... somewhere, though...
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| 18:16 | <vagrantc> the client doesn't know weather it's created chrootless or with a chroot, all the same to the booted client
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| 18:17 | <mwalters> vagrantc: /opt/ltsp/<arch> won't exist in a chrootless install, though, will it?
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| 18:17 | <vagrantc> right, but it doesn't exist for a booted client either
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| 18:17 | <mwalters> where do the ltsp initialization scripts live on a chrootless install, I think is the relevant question
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| 18:17 | (for the client)
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| 18:18 | <vagrantc> same place, minus the /opt/ltsp/<arch> part ... e.g. /
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| 18:18 | <mwalters> cool, so yeah... you could modify that line to check for the current time and shut them down
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| 18:18 | <Leandro_> ok I see. But I'm using autologin, so I don't think I should use rc.d. Fow what I understand, everything in rc.d will run at all time.
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| 18:18 | <mwalters> if you can't get the CRONTAB_01 lines to work
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| 18:19 | yeah, you're probably right... that'll only run if ldm is active, and no one is logged in
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| 18:19 | <Leandro_> Yeah, I thought about making that check, but it didn't seem to me that it is the best way to do it.
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| 18:20 | I tried using crontab too, but no cigar.
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| 18:20 | <mwalters> looks like CRONTAB_## is only for thin clients
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| 18:21 | <Leandro_> Yeah, I guess so.
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| 18:22 | I took /var/spool/cron/crontab out of the excludes file, then I booted a fat client and running "crontab - l" displays the crontab correctly, but it won't run.
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| 18:24 | <mwalters> you could try creating a script in /usr/share/ltsp/init-ltsp.d/ and adding a cron entry from that
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| 18:24 | that'll get run when the client boots
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| 18:28 | <Leandro_> what do you mean by creating a script on that folder and adding the cron entry? What that script would do?
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| 18:28 | I don't think I follow you thought
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| 18:33 | <mwalters> the script would add the cron entry... e.g., write a file to /etc/cron.daily
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| 18:35 | I'm grasping at straws a bit, I've never goofed with a chrootless server
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| 18:35 | but that seems like a good way to try
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> should figure out why CRONTAB_* doesn't work
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| 18:36 | rather than implementing workarounds
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| 18:36 | <mwalters> manpage says it's for clients
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| 18:36 | eer
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| 18:36 | thin clients
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| 18:36 | <vagrantc> there's nothing thin-client specific about it
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| 18:36 | <mwalters> no idea
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| 18:38 | <Leandro_> The CRONTAB_* doesn't work. I looked into /etc/cron.d on a booted client, and there is a file named ltsp there, with the time and command I had set.
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| 18:38 | But didnt't run :(
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| 18:38 | <vagrantc> you might also need to add cron to KEEP_SYSTEM_SERVICES
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| 18:39 | <Leandro_> nice! I'll give it a try and will get back with the result shortly
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| 18:44 | <mwalters> systemctl shows cron running without that line in lts.conf
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| 18:44 | (on a client)
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| 18:58 | <Leandro_> didn't work :(. Is there a way where I can see if cron is running jobs or not on a client? Cause syslog can't be accessed
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| 18:59 | systemctl also show that cron is running here
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| 19:01 | To try to be clear. So far I have CRONTAB_01 on my lts.conf, and it "works", it adds a file with the correct command to execute on /etc/cron.d/ on client
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| 19:04 | <mwalters> by default it just throws away the output
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| 19:04 | you could have jobs log to file to see if they're doing anything
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| 19:05 | * * * * * <user> <command> > /some/file/to/log.to
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| 19:11 | <vagrantc> that should get created before systemd is even started ... odd.
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| 19:12 | honestly, i've had problems with cron and systemd in general ...
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| 19:13 | maybe try installing systemd-cron ?
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| 19:13 | been a long time since i needed any of this
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| 19:58 | <alkisg> Leandro_: are you sure that your crontab line is correct?
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| 19:59 | afaik, crontab_xx in lts.conf works fine, I'm not aware of any issues
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| 19:59 | Can you paste that line here?
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| 20:00 | SHUTDOWN_TIME="14:00:00" => shuts down the clients IF they're in ldm at that time
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| 20:00 | RCFILE_SHUTDOWN="shutdown -h 14:00" ==> shuts down the clients even if they have logged in
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| 20:01 | I think that's easier than cron; but if you prefer cron, it should work too
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| 20:03 | <vagrantc> nice RCFILE trick :)
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| 20:04 | shutdown after X hours of inactivity would be interesting, too
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| 20:05 | <mwalters> curious how you would measure inactivity... load/utilization under a certain threshold?
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> there are functions in X to monitor activity that are used by screensavers
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| 20:06 | <mwalters> oh, I guess that makes sense
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| 20:06 | <vagrantc> so use the same "activity" detection to do something other than a screensaver
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| 20:07 | <mwalters> I wonder if you could detect the screen being locked
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| 20:07 | and unlocked... if the screen has been locked for N minutes
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| 20:07 | <vagrantc> could probably even use xautolock directly, since it can call an arbitrary screensaver ... i did that on some kiosks i had
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| 20:08 | though i think in the end i wrote a hook that prepended "timeout $((60*60*2)) /path/to/desktop-session" which just brutally killed the session
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| 20:09 | and then used xautolock to popup reminders or something
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| 20:09 | <mwalters> won't you think of the sessions
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| 20:09 | yeah, I have locking/timeout setup through dconf right now
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| 20:14 | <Leandro_> alkisg: crontab is having a weird behavior. If I put something like "touch test.txt" in it, it runs, but things like "shutdown -h now" "init 0" "mate-session-save --logout" dont't run at all.
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| 20:14 | I will try the RCFILE_SHUTDOWN trick here and will get back to you tomorrow. Thank you
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| 20:15 | <vagrantc> mate-session-save certainly wouldn't work
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| 20:16 | <Leandro_> it works on shell
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| 20:16 | <vagrantc> a shell without DISPLAY and appropriate XAUTHORITY?
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| 20:16 | or user
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| 20:16 | ?
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| 20:16 | <Leandro_> user
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| 20:17 | on a terminal open with X, "mate-session-save --logout" logs out the user
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| 20:18 | <vagrantc> yes, which is a very different environment from where cron runs
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| 20:18 | <Leandro_> indeed, you're right
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| 20:20 | The RCFILE_SHUTDOWN worked!
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> alkisg almost always has the best suggestions
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| 20:20 | <Leandro_> alkisg saving my ass once again. Thank you! And also thanks to vagrantc and mwalters
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