IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 30 December 2007 (all times are UTC)
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| 09:05 | <Drakeweb> can anyone help me with a chroot upgrade problem?
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| 09:06 | i've performed an apt-get undate
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| 09:06 | followed by an apt-get upgrade
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| 09:07 | and it fails when attempting to upgrade the kernel to 2.6.22-14-386
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| 09:07 | "cannot open /boot/nbi.img-2.6.22-14-386: file exists"
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| 09:08 | dpkg: warning - old post removal script returned error exit status 1
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| 10:08 | <markvandenborre> jammcq: did you ever notice a vesa driver having higher performance than a specific driver?
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| 10:08 | as in: 20 times more for certain x11perf tests?
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| 10:10 | the ones that seem to be most relevant for adobe flash to that
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| 10:12 | would it be useful for me to go and have a look at what x11perf tests matter for flash?
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| 12:46 | <PupUser931879> can I setup a ltsp and access it from the internet or is ltsp a LAN only terminal server? thanks
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| 12:47 | <johnny> it's best for LAN
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| 12:47 | <PupUser931879> thx
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| 12:47 | <johnny> you can access it from the internet the same way as you use other services on linux tho
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| 12:47 | vnc, forwarded X, NX,ssh
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| 12:48 | <PupUser931879> i got some people logging into a small business server 2000 in application mode but the resolution is low
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| 12:48 | <johnny> you might want to look into NX then
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| 12:50 | <PupUser931879> however, I did install the k12ltsp and it was awesome. some old business class p3 compaqs with bootp nics and bingo, i was in.
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| 12:50 | <johnny> how up to date is that?
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| 12:51 | <PupUser931879> ver 6 i thinj
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| 12:51 | <johnny> everybody has been working on ltsp5 stuff now
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| 12:51 | <PupUser931879> think
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| 12:51 | <johnny> i mean which ltsp is it based on
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| 12:51 | ltsp5 is more distro centric
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| 12:51 | but has better options (imo)
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| 12:54 | <PupUser931879> ah yes... ltsp-5
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| 12:54 | <johnny> i've just been using stock ubuntu
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| 12:55 | <PupUser931879> anyway, thanks again... i'll check out NX for the people connecting to me via the internet.
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| 16:24 | <vagrantc> otavio: how did ldm get through NEW so fast?
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| 18:26 | <otavio> vagrantc: people is doing great on new queue lately
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| 18:35 | <vagrantc> otavio: it almost seems like it never even hit the NEW queue
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| 18:36 | otavio: the i386 buildd seems slow :(
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| 18:36 | <otavio> ahhh
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| 18:36 | that's why it existed before so it doesn't needs approval
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| 18:37 | <vagrantc> even though it used to be part of a different source package?
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| 18:38 | <otavio> yes
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| 18:56 | <malianx> Is it possible to boot off a livecd, and then connect to an ltsp backend to limit actual use of the system on the client?
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| 18:58 | Or possibly to build a cd boot medium to boot off an ltsp server with a wireless card.
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| 18:59 | <vagrantc> all things are possible... do you want to know if it's easy?
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| 18:59 | <malianx> meh, I'm used to it not being
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| 19:00 | <vagrantc> booting off a livecd and connecting to a server is pretty simple ... essentially it's just "ssh -X /etc/X11/Xsession"
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| 19:00 | you won't have all the local sound and local devices bells and whistles, though
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| 19:01 | <malianx> hrm
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> !wireless
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| 19:01 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "wireless" is http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/WirelessLtsp
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| 19:01 | <malianx> so basically if I don't etherboot/pxe I can't get much out of onboard sound and whatnot?
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| 19:01 | <vagrantc> malianx: you might also have luck with installing the ldm package in your livecd ... though you'll have to configure a few things manually
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| 19:02 | well, there are many options, but the easiest thing to do is network boot
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| 19:02 | and because that's the easiest thing, the other options are not well developed
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| 19:02 | <malianx> the onboard network card is hosed, and I don't have another for it at the moment heh
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| 19:03 | Hrm, I wonder. Do pcmcia nic's support network boot?
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| 19:03 | <vagrantc> not usually
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| 19:04 | <malianx> hrm
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| 19:05 | Thanks for the clarifications :)
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| 19:05 | ltsp has had my mind grinding away for like a week now, decided to finally really look into it
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| 19:05 | <vagrantc> i've been meaning to mess with setting up pcmcia boot, but now i'm looking more at booting from usb ethernet ... i.e. setting up a local boot medium
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| 19:05 | since pcmcia is getting more and more obsolete ...
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| 19:06 | <malianx> local boot medium as in, booting off a usb stick that has eithernet or 802.11 drivers as opposed to nic booting?
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| 19:07 | simplified of course, I imagine there'd be initrd scripting and whatnot
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| 19:07 | right?
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| 19:07 | <vagrantc> well, the network boot boots the kernel and an initramfs image, which then you have a flexible linux environment ...
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| 19:08 | i was thinking of putting some work into setting up boot media creation to load the kernel+initramfs ... cd or usb stick or hard drive ...
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| 19:09 | once you get the kernel and initramfs loaded, it's much easier to set up wireless, pcmcia, usb, whatever
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| 19:09 | <malianx> But if you boot a local kernel, don't you lose the peripheral stuff?
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| 19:09 | <vagrantc> no
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| 19:09 | not the way i'm proposing
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| 19:10 | <malianx> I'm sorry, I must be having trouble getting my mind around it tonight heh
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| 19:10 | If that's what you are proposing, I'm all for it meh, that's what I want probably.
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| 19:10 | <vagrantc> booting off some livecd and running a non-LTSP environment and logging in using similar technologies to LTSP, yes, you'd loose all the hooks
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| 19:11 | an LTSP server is just an sshd/tftpd/nfsd/nbd server, really.
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| 19:11 | oh, and dhcpd
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| 19:11 | <malianx> that was my understanding, kinda an all-in-one monolith for distributed network clients
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| 19:12 | But if it's possible to build a local enviroment that doesn't take away those 'hooks', then we wouldn't have to rely on etherboot/pxe right?
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| 19:13 | Speaking of which, how likely is it that an nforce onboard nic is pxe/etherbootable?
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| 19:13 | <vagrantc> LTSP is just a collection of services, and a root environment provided over the network ... if you're not using that root environment, it's not really an LTSP server ... it's just a FOO server
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| 19:13 | well, local media boot is an ugly hackish workaround to be avoided if at all possible
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| 19:14 | because then you have to update your boot media
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| 19:14 | rather than just dynamically getting everything from the network
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| 19:14 | anyways, gotta go ...
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| 19:15 | <malianx> alright, thanks
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| 21:56 | <kevin_> good evening all, quick question, I come from a Sun Ray thin client background and deployed my first LTSP setup last night on a Xen debian etch build, question is am I supposed to be having this much of an issue getting networked sound to work on the PXE thin client devices or am I missing something very easy here?
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| 21:57 | I read the sound page and also saw something concerning the lts.conf file and possibly needing to head in that direction but just wanted to check here and see if anyone here had any sggestions
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| 22:00 | <vagrantc> kevin_: using ltsp-server or ltsp-utils?
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| 22:00 | ltsp-server is ltsp 5.x, ltsp-utils is ltsp 4.x
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| 22:00 | they are incompatible ...
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| 22:01 | !debian
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| 22:01 | <ltspbot> vagrantc: "debian" is is a GNU/Linux based operating system that makes an excellent LTSP server. You can find it at http://www.debian.org. for information about LTSP on debian see http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP
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| 22:01 | <kevin_> I believe ltsp-server, but I am not totally sure, it is a debian etch LTSP 5 install in a Xen DomU instance, if that is what your looking for
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| 22:01 | <vagrantc> the howto documents how to use the backports
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| 22:01 | which have better sound support
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| 22:02 | <kevin_> so in the howto docs they say how to use the backports in LTSP5?
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| 22:02 | or did I miss something?
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| 22:03 | <vagrantc> did you read the howto?
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| 22:04 | <kevin_> I am 20 plus tabs dep into ltsp pages, I believe so but let me double check
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| 22:05 | <kevin_> what specific howto? the one off ltsp.org under documentation?
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> kevin_: much of the documentation on wiki.ltsp.org is for ltsp 4.x ... if you're using ltsp-server and ltsp-build-client, then you'll have to rely on the sparse documentation included in the packages and in the http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP locations
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| 22:05 | <kevin_> ahh ok
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| 22:05 | thanks much
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| 22:05 | <vagrantc> kevin_: i recommend starting off with http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto
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| 22:05 | <kevin_> excellent thanks
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> there is documentation that overlaps between ltsp 4.x and ltsp5, but there's no simple way to describe when something applies or doesn't ...
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| 22:06 | <kevin_> yeah that's the page actually that I installed ltsp5 under debian etch from
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| 22:06 | it doesnt really talk abt getting sound to work or in detail troubleshooting/debugging
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| 22:06 | hmmmm
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> kevin_: dpkg -l 'ltsp*' | egrep ^ii
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| 22:07 | kevin_: dpkg --root=/opt/ltsp/i386 -l 'ltsp*' | egrep ^ii
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| 22:07 | yes, the documentation needs considerable work, that's why it's a wiki :)
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| 22:07 | <kevin_> ltsp-server 0.99debian11 Basic LTSP server env
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| 22:08 | <vagrantc> ok, so you're using the non-backported packages ...
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| 22:08 | <kevin_> looks like it, I got kde, gnome, xfce4 desktops all working but no sound
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| 22:09 | <vagrantc> i would recommend following the instructions for backported packages, and there should be documentation in /usr/share/doc/ltsp-server/README.Debian.sound about configuring sound
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| 22:09 | i've tested sound support on etch, and it "works for me"
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| 22:09 | with the backported packages, that is
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| 22:11 | <kevin_> cool, much appreciated
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| 22:12 | <vagrantc> you may have to delete your existing install, though ...
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| 22:12 | or at least move it aside
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| 22:12 | <kevin_> please forgive me but could you please point me in the right direction for the backported instructions packages docs?
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| 22:12 | that's fine
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| 22:13 | I can rebuild it no prob at all, it's virtual :-D
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| 22:13 | you dont forsee a prob there do you?
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| 22:13 | per se as in I have no real audio HW?
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| 22:14 | I do the same setup w/ sunray servers using Xen to virtualize them and sound works that way
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| 22:14 | but I am sure that is a whole other cookie
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| 22:15 | <vagrantc> server doesn't need a sound card or anything like that- server-side it's all software
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| 22:16 | <kevin_> so it's doing what creating pseudo network sound sockets w/ nc or something similar?
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| 22:16 | <vagrantc> it uses pulseaudio's network sound support
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| 22:17 | <vagrantc> kevin_: about half-way down the page, there's instructions for the "newer LTSP related packages"
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| 22:17 | <kevin_> very cool! I read a small bit on that but as I said i got into this late last night as a side work project as we are running into scaling limitation w/ our Sun Ray env
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| 22:17 | damn your right I saw that as well but did nt get brave enough to forge onto there
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| 22:17 | will that possibly be the trick to getting sound working?
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| 22:18 | <vagrantc> sound support with pulseaudio is much better than with esound (used in the older versions)
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| 22:20 | <kevin_> ok looks like I am headed down the pulseaudio path
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| 22:20 | <vagrantc> you could probably manually add support for pulseaudio with the regular etch packages ...
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| 22:22 | <kevin_> what do you suggest? fastest/easiest/most repeatable path? go from scratch or try to patch this goodness together?
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| 22:22 | * vagrantc already made a suggestion :P | |
| 22:24 | <vagrantc> i.e. use the backports
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| 22:24 | <kevin_> ok I'm off to try the rest of the 'newer LTSP related packages' section of that doc...see what I can break
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| 22:25 | that's the only way to learn :-D heh
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| 22:25 | <vagrantc> there's always room for improvement
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| 22:29 | hrm. so i fixed --kiosk mode only to find that with apt's new default behavior pulling in all recommends in pulls in a ridiculous number of packages.
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| 22:32 | <kevin_> good times :-D
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