IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 25 July 2009 (all times are UTC)
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| 01:17 | <Lns> Just ran across http://blog.revolutionlinux.com/en/ - some awesome info for LTSP! (videos too)
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| 01:18 | stgraber, ^^ =) You guys do great work!
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| 04:45 | <vagrantc> otavio: bring on your LTSP running in 16MB of ram!
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| 04:45 | :)
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| 04:46 | <otavio> vagrantc: come here and we need to test it ;-)
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| 04:46 | vagrantc: I'm at hl2
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| 04:47 | * vagrantc passes through a wall | |
| 04:47 | * otavio gots scared | |
| 04:47 | <otavio> heh
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| 04:47 | ;-)
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| 04:47 | <vagrantc> otavio: should i bring my laptop?
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| 04:47 | otavio: actually, i'm going to a talk in 13 minutes ... maybe later?
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| 04:47 | <otavio> vagrantc: yes; mine is slow as hell and I do not have an testing environent setuped
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| 04:48 | * vagrantc wonders how fast otavio thinks vagrantc's laptop is | |
| 04:48 | * otavio at last do not needs to setup an testing env ;-) | |
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| 06:08 | <vagrantc_> otavio: think we can try before lunch?
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| 07:34 | <ace_suares> morning
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| 07:38 | <vagrantc_> otavio: how about after lunch?
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| 07:40 | <sbalneav> otavio: Hey! You get your embedded LTSP going?
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| 07:40 | win 3
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| 07:40 | <vagrantc_> sbalneav: so the rumour goes. we haven't actually tested it yet
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| 07:42 | <ace_suares> Laserjock ping
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| 07:43 | <sbalneav> ace_suares: one channel over. LaserJock never hangs out here :)
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| 07:43 | <ace_suares> oops
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| 07:43 | kk
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| 08:03 | <GGD> seen! warren
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| 08:10 | <vagrantc_> GGD: put the ! first
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| 08:11 | <ogra_> vagrantc_, so what are you guzs doing over there ?
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| 08:12 | *guys
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| 08:12 | * ogra_ curses us kbds | |
| 08:12 | <vagrantc_> ogra_: building an LTSP chroot from some embedded distro
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| 08:13 | ogra_: possibly as a not-quite-LTSP5 variant for low-end stuff
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| 08:13 | <ogra_> why not quite ltsp5 :)
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| 08:13 | you could just have a special mode
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| 08:13 | <vagrantc_> well, most likely people won't be using these embedded distros as their host distro
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| 08:13 | <ogra_> that pulls in specific packages
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| 08:14 | ah, i thought it was netbooting as well
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| 08:14 | oh, i misread
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| 08:15 | <vagrantc_> well, LTSP5 basically is on fedora, build fedora, on debian build debian chroot ... etc. but this would be a chroot built from a distro that wouldn't be the host likely on an alien host distro
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| 08:15 | <ogra_> yeah
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| 08:15 | i thought it was about size
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| 08:15 | <vagrantc_> the goal is reduced memory footprint ...
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| 08:15 | <ogra_> well
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| 08:15 | <vagrantc_> not sure how it'll pan out.
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| 08:16 | <ogra_> did you ever try to assembel a minimal system just around busybox with X ?
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| 08:16 | <vagrantc_> i haven't tried anything ... i'm waiting to test what otavio worked on all night long
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| 08:16 | :)
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| 08:16 | <ogra_> ah
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| 08:17 | * ogra_ wonders when in ubuntu or debian the TERM variable setup broke | |
| 08:18 | <vagrantc_> somewhere along the way i started seeing wierd TERM=screen.linux junk ...
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| 08:18 | <ogra_> well, mine is TERM=xterm by default
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| 08:18 | <vagrantc_> haven't quite figured what triggers that. TERM=screen works just fine
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| 08:18 | <ogra_> which makes things like whiptail --msgbox immediately exit in scripts
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| 08:19 | if i set TERM=linux it works fine but breaks special chars
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| 08:20 | i also noticed that minicom doesnt work in maximized windows anymore if i dont set TERM=linux
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| 08:20 | it satrts flashing like mad
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| 08:21 | vagrantc_, whiptail --infobox "hello" 10 20
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| 08:21 | vagrantc_, vs: TERM=linux whiptail --infobox "hello" 10 20
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| 08:22 | do you see a difference in debian with that ?
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| 08:22 | <vagrantc_> ogra_: different colors
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| 08:22 | <ogra_> for me the first one clears the screen immediately while the second one keeps the whiptail msg on screen
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| 08:23 | oh, right your default is screen ...
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| 08:23 | <vagrantc_> with TERM=rxvt-unicode, it doesn't display at all
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| 08:23 | or TERM=xterm
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| 08:23 | <ogra_> turn the first one into TERM=xterm whiptail --infobox "hello" 10 20
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| 08:23 | right
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| 08:23 | well, it flashes the whiptail msg shortly
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| 08:24 | <vagrantc_> annoying
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| 08:24 | <ogra_> yeah
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| 08:24 | and i dont know where to look for the bug actually
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| 08:24 | seems /etc/termcap is gnoe since a while
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| 08:24 | * vagrantc_ is trying to dig up the magic numbers for binfmt_misc on x86_64 | |
| 08:25 | <ogra_> google ;)
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| 08:26 | * vagrantc_ has never really been proficient with search engines | |
| 08:26 | <vagrantc_> well, the important thing is arm works
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| 08:27 | <ogra_> :)
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| 08:27 | <vagrantc_> x86_64/amd64 is a pretty unusual case. powerpc/ppc would be nice to have ...
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| 08:27 | <ogra_> did otavio bring arm hardware for you to test ?
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| 08:27 | <vagrantc_> no, but i tested with qemu
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| 08:27 | <ogra_> well, the intresting parts are the netboot setups :)
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| 08:28 | <vagrantc_> mips* isn't supported by qemu yet, as far as i can tell... powerpc segfaults
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| 08:28 | ogra_: i think much more interesting is the bootstrapping the chroot cross-architecture :)
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| 08:28 | <ogra_> i would like to have it autogenerate uboot or redboot configs you can dump in the flash or whatever bootdevice the SoC uses
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| 08:29 | my imx51 boards all boot from SD by default, the beagleboard can do that as well ..
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| 08:29 | <vagrantc_> port gPXE to arm, and flash that :)
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| 08:29 | <ogra_> wont work
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| 08:30 | each arm board has its own bootloader
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| 08:30 | you need a binary specifically built for the target SoC
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| 08:30 | <vagrantc_> two-kernel monte (a.k.a. kexec)
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| 08:30 | <ogra_> broken upstream
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| 08:30 | <vagrantc_> yeah
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| 08:30 | * ogra_ would love to kexec | |
| 08:31 | <vagrantc_> surely, it's possible to write something you could flash that has more genuine network boot capabilities
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| 08:31 | the question is who will, and when
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| 08:31 | <ogra_> i'd actually use it as default ... i even have an initramfs menu written already that scans possible bootdevices
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| 08:32 | * vagrantc_ wonders if the arm thin clients out there rely on flash booting | |
| 08:32 | <ogra_> if kexecd would work, i could display a grub like menu on the framebuffer
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| 08:32 | *kexec
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| 08:32 | likely flash booting with bootp
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| 08:32 | <ogra_> redboot uses bootp by default and http to transfer kernel and initramfs (can use tftp though)
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| 08:33 | <sbalneav> I can't think of any major reason why a *jaunty* chroot wouldn't work on a *hardy* server, can either of you?
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| 08:33 | <ogra_> not really
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| 08:33 | <vagrantc_> ogra_: do you know the difference between qemu-arm and qemu-armeb ?
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| 08:33 | <ogra_> sbalneav, why do you ask? do you see issues ?
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| 08:34 | qemu-arm uses the default endianess of the distro
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| 08:34 | inj former debian relesews that actually was eb
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| 08:34 | <sbalneav> Got a new mobo at work for our thin clients. it's got a r8169 network chip. hangs in the initramfs on hardy, works perfectly at home on jaunty.
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| 08:34 | * ogra_ curses that kbd once more | |
| 08:34 | <sbalneav> bug in the 8169 driver, I'm thinking
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| 08:35 | <ogra_> yeah
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| 08:35 | tried the linux-backports-modules package ?
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| 08:35 | specifically NIC fixes come in that
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| 08:36 | though most of the time its wlan fixes that are backported
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| 08:36 | <sbalneav> ah, ok, I could give that a try too.
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| 08:36 | I'm off on hollidays for the next couple of weeks, so I'll be sporadicly in here.
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| 08:36 | <ogra_> i think you need hardy-updates enabled for it
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| 08:36 | <sbalneav> I'll give it a shot when I come back
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| 08:41 | <otavio> sbalneav: yes :-)
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| 08:43 | <GGD> !seen warren
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| 08:43 | <ltspbot> GGD: warren was last seen in #ltsp 3 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 8 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <warren> g
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| 08:47 | <sbalneav> otavio: COOL
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| 08:48 | So, smaller (X&&Kernel&&Libs) helped, eh?
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| 08:52 | <otavio> sbalneav: well; not yet working
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| 08:54 | sbalneav: but for now, 16mb ;-)
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| 08:56 | <sbalneav> Awesomeissitude.
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| 08:56 | Even if it doubled to 32, that'd still be great.
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| 08:57 | Where do you figger the biggest savings is coming from? Kernel? libc?
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| 08:57 | I.e., what's gotten "big" in Linux?
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| 08:57 | <ogra_> everything ?
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| 08:58 | libc grew a lot, kernel grew massively
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| 08:59 | then you need to take into account that we put all possible NIC modules in the initramfs, initramfs carries a copy of glibc ...
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| 08:59 | we have the varios rootfs methods in initramfs (nfs, nbd images etc)
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| 09:00 | <sbalneav> Yeah. With functionality comes size.
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| 09:01 | <ogra_> kernel and initramfs in ubuntu require at least 24M to properly boot, even if thats smaller in debian it will still be above 16M
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| 09:01 | <sbalneav> From what otavio was talking to us about in Brazil, I think he's using openembedded.
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| 09:01 | <ogra_> though i suspect otavio will run into massive probs with a recent xorg ... unless thats recompiled and stripped massively
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| 09:03 | <otavio> ogra_: compiling from scratch ;-)
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| 09:03 | <ogra_> running on 16M is a challenged, even for openembedded
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| 09:03 | <otavio> ogra_: let's see how it works
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| 09:03 | <ogra_> *challenge
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| 09:03 | <otavio> ogra_: no; the chroot has 16mb for now
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| 09:03 | <ogra_> yeah, crossing my fingers for you :)
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| 09:03 | <otavio> ogra_: it will get bigger
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| 09:04 | ogra_: but maybe 30mb is good target
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| 09:04 | * ogra_ has booted ubuntu clients in 32M | |
| 09:04 | <ogra_> but we cheat and use compcache :)
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| 09:08 | * ogra_ plays with debconf-apt-progress today | |
| 09:09 | <ogra_> sadly it needs an apt fd ... so doesnt help with debootstrap
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| 11:31 | <brendan`> has anyone ever had any issues with LTSP freezing on mouse movement? i was thinking my issue was due to vmware-server-console, but i'm realizing now that it only happens on mouse movement going the user moves over a window that takes focus or loses focus
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| 11:32 | has anyone ever experienced that?
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| 11:32 | <ace_suares> not me. oh well, maybe 4 yrs ago but not lately
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| 11:32 | <brendan`> hah, i feel like this bug is taking me back years
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| 11:33 | it's driving me and my users crazy
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| 11:33 | it started happening after I upgraded to 8.10 amd64
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| 11:33 | everything was fine for a year before that :(
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| 11:34 | <ace_suares> too bad... i am just editing the wiki, so wait for ogra or sbalneav or so,,,, sorryy
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| 14:46 | <epsas> win 13
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| 17:10 | <stgraber> sbalneav: ping
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| 18:12 | <johnny> knipwim, i sent him the mail
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| 20:36 | <TheProf> Hello. I hope everyone is doing well. I have a question about the K12Linux installation based on Fedora 10. I just received a couple of older computers donated to the system. Several boot fine but one of them boots successfully except shows no text.
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| 20:36 | That is to say I get the blue screen with a white textbox for the login but no text anywhere.
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| 20:37 | I don't think it is a resolution issue as everything is clear. There's just no words or logos
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