IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 21 September 2012 (all times are UTC)
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| 12:37 | <alkisg> stgraber: after the /tmp/net-* => /run/net-* changes, the newer LTSP versions don't work on Precise
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| 12:38 | I'll put some compatibility code there in order to work for both cases, ok?
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| 12:40 | <muppis> About the jetpipe problem what our customer had. Indeed those problem machines are only 512 ram and there is one (which I've forgot) client with 2G of ram where Jetpipe works flawless. Customers contact promised to look up if could add ram those problem machines.
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| 12:43 | <alkisg> "only" 512? so, what should those with 128 say? :-/
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| 12:43 | <muppis> :D
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| 12:44 | <alkisg> muppis: so you saw with `top` that they only had a few ram left?
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| 12:44 | And jetpipe needed hundreds of mb ram?
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| 12:44 | Or you have a local browser too?
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| 12:45 | <muppis> Yes, there's a local browser.
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> Do you have any swap, nbd or local?
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| 12:45 | <muppis> Nope, that could help as well.
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| 12:45 | <alkisg> Then it sounds like an OOM condition
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| 12:45 | Where the process with the biggest score gets killed
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| 12:46 | * alkisg uses 512 mb swap always | |
| 12:47 | <muppis> Hmm.. Sounds like a plan.
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| 12:47 | Add a local swap.
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| 13:13 | <stgraber> alkisg: sure
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| 13:13 | <alkisg> Cool
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| 13:13 | (there's yet another thing breaking precise but I haven't pinpointed it yet)
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| 13:14 | stgraber: did you try booting ltsp after your changes? Does it work in quantal?
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| 13:15 | <stgraber> alkisg: yeah, it works in quantal and wouldn't boot without the change
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| 13:16 | <alkisg> Nice, so there's another incompatibility somewhere... (I tried reverting run => tmp but precise still wouldn't boot)
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| 13:16 | <stgraber> I checked Debian at the time and they had the same change, so I didn't bother putting an extra check upstream
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| 13:18 | <alkisg> stgraber: grep tmp/net /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions
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| 13:18 | configure_networking in quantal still uses /tmp?
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| 13:20 | Ah no sorry wrong VM
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| 15:43 | <mealstrom> have a nice weekend :D
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| 18:13 | * vagrantc is struggling with libvirt to get a networking paradigm that usefully mirrors the LTSP with 2 NICs setup | |
| 18:13 | <highvoltage> try the gui, it's easy.
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| 18:14 | (virt-manager)
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| 18:14 | <vagrantc> i have been, but it sets up firewall rules that block dhcp from working
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| 18:15 | <highvoltage> strange, I've never had that problem with it before
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| 18:15 | <vagrantc> i've almost got what i need, with a bridge for the LTSP network, and a macvtap on eth0 for the network access ... but for whatever reason i can't get back to the host machine then
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| 18:16 | maybe i should try with the NATted network
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| 18:16 | i've made a few changes since then...
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| 18:17 | there appears to be no obvious way to start the default network when it's inactive
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| 18:18 | the default network also grabs DHCP on all interfaces, even though it doesn't listen on all interfaces :(
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| 18:20 | the "isolated network" actually sets up a network on tthe host for no apparent reason...
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| 18:23 | well, i think i got something workable
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| 18:23 | i'm trying to backport ltsp squeeze packages
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| 18:23 | well, squeeze backports from wheezy
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| 18:24 | all these easy to use interfaces always amaze me at how difficult they are
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| 20:15 | <alkisg> vagrantc: init-bottom/ltsp:for netconf in /run/net-*.conf ; do...
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| 20:15 | Squeeze uses /tmp/ there, right? (as does Precise...) I'm thinking of rewriting that to use `find` instead, and check both locations, does that sound ok?
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| 20:15 | And also change udhcpc to create a symlink in /tmp as well...
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| 20:17 | <vagrantc> alkisg: why not for netconf in /run/net-*.conf /tmp/net-*.conf ?
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| 20:17 | <alkisg> vagrantc: if they don't exist, it tries to copy the asterisk then
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| 20:18 | <vagrantc> if -f $netconf ; else
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| 20:18 | <alkisg> Can't use if with *
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| 20:18 | Ah ok
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| 20:18 | Inside the if, sure
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| 20:18 | *the for
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| 20:18 | Well, isn't find easier?
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| 20:19 | It's busybox, already loaded
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> i'd prefer not using find...
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| 20:19 | <alkisg> OK, np
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| 20:19 | And, for udhcpc, symlink or create a duplicate file/
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| 20:19 | ?
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| 20:19 | <vagrantc> dunno why, it just seems easier
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| 20:20 | <alkisg> I could also grep for tmp/net- the initramfs-tools "functions" script and check which one to use, but that sounds really lame :D
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| 20:20 | <vagrantc> i wouldn't :)
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| 20:21 | <alkisg> if grep -q tmp/net /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions; then echo tmp; else echo run; fi
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| 20:21 | symlink?
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| 20:22 | <vagrantc> what are you trying to do?
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| 20:22 | check what initramfs-tools uses?
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| 20:22 | <alkisg> udhcp creates a net-eth0.conf file
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| 20:22 | Previously that would go in /tmp
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| 20:22 | Now it goes in /run
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| 20:22 | <vagrantc> that could really be prone to false positives
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> So we either need to detect the correct dir based on the initramfs-tools version, or create both files (or symlink)
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| 20:23 | <vagrantc> i swear i added code to handle this in both places somewhere.
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| 20:23 | <alkisg> The code that reads that file is configure_networking inside initramfs-tools "functions" script
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| 20:23 | I think I read that code too
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| 20:23 | I grep'ed now and I couldn't find it...
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| 20:24 | (my problem now is that precise doesn't boot with ltsp-trunk)
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| 20:24 | <vagrantc> squeeze backport isn't going so well with the dependency on newer nbd-client :(
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| 20:24 | <alkisg> Ouch
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| 20:24 | <vagrantc> at the time we removed support for the old stuff, a backport was fairly easy, but it's gotten more difficult now
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| 20:24 | backport of nbd, that is
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| 20:25 | <alkisg> One could make a poor-man's backport by installing an nbd-client wrapper, that seds '-N xxx' ==> port 2000
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| 20:25 | Sure, not flexible...
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| 20:26 | * alkisg starts debugging ltsp-trunk on precise... | |
| 20:27 | * vagrantc is amazed that precise is already so out of date :) | |
| 20:29 | <alkisg> Ah, I installed 5 debian+lxde kiosk-style PCs today in the schools offices I work now
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| 20:29 | 30 mins installing the first, and 5' for each clone
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| 20:29 | Sweeet :)
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> alkisg: disked?
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| 20:30 | <alkisg> Yeah, we didn't have a server handy there
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| 20:30 | <vagrantc> how do you clone?
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> So we found some ancient p3 boxes with 256 ram, work fine now
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| 20:31 | I installed the original one in kvx
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| 20:31 | kvm
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> squeeze or wheezy?
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> Wheezy
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| 20:31 | (Preferred debian for the 486 kernel)
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| 20:31 | Then I put the disks in a usb box and cat lxde.raw > /dev/sdb
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| 20:31 | <alkisg> Then gparted /dev/sdb, resize to fill disk, done
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| 20:31 | <vagrantc> wow.
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| 20:32 | no filesystem corruption with cat?
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| 20:32 | <alkisg> No, not at all, it's even faster that dd with the default block size of 512 kb
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| 20:32 | *than
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| 20:33 | * vagrantc wonders if rsync would work | |
| 20:33 | <alkisg> For the block device? Or for the contents?
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| 20:33 | * muppis just drinks beer. :) | |
| 20:34 | <alkisg> lxde.raw was 4 Gb, while the target disks were varying, so I don't think rsync would work with block devices
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| 20:34 | <vagrantc> alkisg: to replace lxde.raw > /dev/sdb
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| 20:34 | ah.
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| 20:34 | and be a lot of wasted comparisons
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| 20:35 | <alkisg> Right
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| 20:35 | Resizing the result with gparted only took 30 seconds, and saved me from all the uuid trouble
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| 20:35 | <vagrantc> i've mostly used partimage for disk imaging
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| 20:36 | <alkisg> Does it handle full disks well? MBRs, uuids etc?
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| 20:36 | <vagrantc> dunno, have just used it on partitions
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| 20:36 | uuid trouble?
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> If you create new partitions and clone old ones, you need to use tune2fs -U to put back the old UUIDs so that grub/fstab match
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| 20:37 | <vagrantc> i thought the uuids were on the filesystem level, not partition level.. ??
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| 20:37 | <alkisg> And also then grubinstall to MBR... with a script it's ok, but doing it manually even for 5 disks is time consuming
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| 20:38 | Ah true, I was thinking of rsync
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| 20:38 | <vagrantc> so you just have identical UUIDs on all your clones?
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| 20:38 | <alkisg> (the contents)
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| 20:38 | Right
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| 20:39 | <mnevans> Hello LTSP World. I am still trying to boot a thin client off a Debian/Wheezy server. I wrote to the debian-xorg team, and they said,
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| 20:40 | * vagrantc waves | |
| 20:40 | <mnevans> install the package" firmware-linux-nonfree" (mush-for-brains).
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| 20:40 | <vagrantc> zotac zbox?
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| 20:40 | <mnevans> I did this on the server, and then as chroot, did apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade.
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| 20:41 | vagrantc, yes, the zotac zboxes.
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| 20:41 | But the server is not one of these, it's an intel CPU and nvidia display card.
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> your server shouldn't matter for the client displays
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| 20:42 | <mnevans> Then I checked that the radeon modules are indeed in the chroot.
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> although the nvidia non-free stuff can potentially break a lot of things
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| 20:42 | <mnevans> Then rebooted a client; I get a login (none) but can't login with userid and password. Nothing in dmesg except ethernet link down and up messages.
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| 20:42 | <vagrantc> the nvidia stuff is pretty invasive
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| 20:43 | mnevans: "login (none)" ?
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| 20:43 | mnevans: connected with a crossover cable?
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| 20:43 | <mnevans> vagrantc: well, actually "(none) login:".
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| 20:44 | <vagrantc> mnevans: at a console login?
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| 20:44 | mnevans: or a graphical login?
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| 20:44 | <mnevans> I think it should default to a graphical login - I didn't change any boot options. That's what I want ed to ask about actually.
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| 20:45 | <vagrantc> mnevans: please paste the the output of "ltsp-info --verbose" to a pastebot:
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| 20:45 | !pastebin
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| 20:45 | <ltsp> pastebin: the LTSP pastebin is at http://ltsp.pastebin.com. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebin, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. Don't forget to paste the URL of the text here.
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| 20:45 | <mnevans> What's the best way to append, for instance, "radeon.modeset=0"? Which is how I got X to start on a test case live wheezy install
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| 20:45 | running directly on a zbox.
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| 20:45 | Ah, sorry, I run off at the mouth.
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| 20:46 | Not a crossover cable, just regular ethernet.
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| 20:47 | <vagrantc> mnevans: it sounds like you're not ending up with a writeable filesystem...
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| 20:48 | so that's why X isn't starting
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| 20:49 | mnevans: in order to get any more, though, i need the results from: ltsp-info --verbose
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| 20:50 | <mnevans> Roger that. Sorry, I am slow here. http://pastebin.com/C7jfzrSf
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| 20:52 | vagrantc: yes, I just rebooted to watch the erorr messages, and it finishes by saying: "read-only filesystem".
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| 20:52 | (rebooted the client).
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> mnevans: so these zotac zboxes are 64-bit?
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| 20:54 | <mnevans> Yessir.
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| 20:54 | <vagrantc> are you booting using NBD or NFS?
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| 20:54 | <mnevans> I believe, NBD.
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| 20:55 | <vagrantc> let's try to switch you back to NFS
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| 20:56 | good thing i completely rewrote the NFS/NBD switching code in time for wheezy ...
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| 20:56 | i don't really remember how i even did it...
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| 20:56 | <mnevans> OK... smile... broader smile...
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| 20:57 | <vagrantc> edit /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 20:58 | mnevans: set PXELINUX_DEFAULT=menu
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| 20:58 | that way we can test either NBD or NFS as needed
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| 20:58 | <mnevans> OK. Got it.
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| 20:58 | <vagrantc> sudo ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels
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| 20:58 | sudo ltsp-update-kernels
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| 20:59 | then reboot the client, and let's try NFS
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| 21:00 | that way we can make changes and they go live immediately... once we've got it figured out we can switch back to NBD if you want.
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| 21:01 | <mnevans> OK. Sorry for the delay. Trying to also log instructions so I can repeat this later... I'm with you.
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| 21:02 | <vagrantc> you could probably have your irc client log the whole chat :)
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| 21:03 | mnevans: are your tftp files in /srv/tftp or /var/lib/tftpboot?
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| 21:03 | <mnevans> OK. It logged me in as root in what looks like failsafe mode, into the thin client.
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> ah, ok.
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| 21:03 | <mnevans> Looks like: when I updated the kernels, it updated /srv/tftp directories.
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| 21:03 | <vagrantc> so it's respecting the SCREEN_*=shell stuff you've set
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| 21:04 | <mnevans> Hmmm.. did you see that in the output of ltsp-info? I guess so!
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| 21:04 | <vagrantc> yup
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| 21:05 | <mnevans> So I should comment that out or delete. I forget how ?(it's that taking notes thing...)
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> mnevans: does the command "touch /" return an error?
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| 21:05 | <mnevans> As root?
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| 21:05 | <vagrantc> mnevans: so all the changes you made to lts.conf may not be present in your NBD exported image.
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| 21:06 | mnevans: on the thin client... which should be as root
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| 21:08 | <vagrantc> mnevans: and "hostname" returns what?
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| 21:12 | <vagrantc> doh.
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| 21:12 | <mnevans> Sorry vagrantc, I think I got disconnected for a while there.
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| 21:13 | <vagrantc> mnevans: so, last thing you saw?
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| 21:13 | <mnevans> lts.conf.
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| 21:13 | There is no lts.conf where nbd is supposed to look for it.
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| 21:14 | I was going to comment out "SCREEN_07=console" and reboot the client.
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| 21:14 | As NFS.
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| 21:14 | OK?
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> SCREEN_07=shell?
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| 21:14 | <mnevans> Yes, right, sorry.
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| 21:14 | <vagrantc> with NFS, you can directly edit /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/lts.conf
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| 21:15 | <mnevans> Yes, that was what I did.
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| 21:15 | <vagrantc> mnevans: try SCREEN_07=ldm SCREEN_02=shell
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| 21:15 | on separate lines
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| 21:15 | reboot, see what happens
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| 21:15 | <mnevans> rebooting...
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| 21:18 | OK, I've got a graphical login, but I think the display is mirrored off to the right, so I can't actually see what's going on.
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| 21:18 | Now I know I've seen that before and should know how to fix it...
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| 21:18 | <vagrantc> ctrl-alt-f2
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| 21:18 | <mnevans> to the shell...
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> so, it seems to be working better with NFS ... you might have some problems with your NBD setup
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| 21:20 | mnevans: what does "hostname" return?
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| 21:20 | <mnevans> It gives the name of the client, ltsp37.
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| 21:20 | <vagrantc> ok.
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| 21:21 | so that "(none) login:" stuff you were ggetting before showed some problems with your NBD image, i'm guessing
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| 21:21 | <mnevans> Can I rebuild the nbd image?
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| 21:21 | <vagrantc> sudo ltsp-update-image should do it
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| 21:22 | <mnevans> Hmm. Have done that, about an hour ago.
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| 21:25 | <vagrantc> mnevans: so, to get back to your earlier question setting kernel boot options can be done by....
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| 21:27 | editing /opt/ltsp/amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf
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| 21:27 | mnevans: you probably want to add the nomodeset stuff to CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
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| 21:27 | and then ... sudo ltsp-chroot /usr/share/ltsp/update-kernels ; sudo ltsp-update-kernels
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| 21:31 | <mnevans> vagrant: thank you. I just added the stanza to lts.conf that fixes the display mirroring.
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| 21:31 | Now made the change to lts.conf and updated the kernels as instructed (and made a note).
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| 21:32 | Should I try without radeon.modeset=0, as theoretically the nonfree radeon drivers are there?
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| 21:33 | <vagrantc> try whatever you want until it works :)
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| 21:33 | i don't actually have a broad experience with hardware to know
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| 21:33 | <mnevans> Although, hell, display looks fine without the nonfree stuff.
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| 21:34 | What I really need now is a clear path to do a barebones install of wheezy/ltsp.
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> i'd go with the non-free stuff if you don't obviously need it
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| 21:34 | <mnevans> I will then try to replicate it on my test box.
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| 21:34 | Then implement on my server.
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| 21:34 | <vagrantc> as said earlier, the nvidia stuff is invasive and will break non-nvidia hardware
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| 21:35 | <mnevans> But so many twists and turns to get here. Is there an updated wheezy/ltsp howto that would have saved you this trouble :-)
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| 21:35 | Fortunately server has only onboard video, no insidious nvidious.
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| 21:35 | <vagrantc> i don't know how you got where you got to ...
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| 21:35 | <mnevans> (real server that is).
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| 21:36 | So: vanilla install of wheezy;
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| 21:36 | then ltsp-standalone;
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| 21:36 | then configure dhcp
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| 21:36 | <vagrantc> ltsp-config provides some features to simplify configuring some things
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| 21:37 | <mnevans> then setup update-kernels.conf to use boot menu and boot by nfs not nbd.
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| 21:37 | Then fix the display mirroring etc.
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| 21:37 | <vagrantc> by default it should use NFS ...
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| 21:37 | <mnevans> That sound complete?
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| 21:37 | Oh really? I thought it used nbd by default. I wasn't trying to be fancy or anything.
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| 21:38 | Wonder how I got there.
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> debian uses NFS by default
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| 21:40 | <mnevans> Is the process same as in the howto for debian stable? Or has it changed?
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> maybe you weren't actually using NBD ...
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| 21:40 | <mnevans> (The install/config ltsp process I mean).
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| 21:40 | <vagrantc> same process
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| 21:40 | <mnevans> OK, then I will try the clean install using those howtos.
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| 21:41 | * vagrantc should double-check | |
| 21:41 | <vagrantc> hasn't changed since lenny, reallly
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| 21:42 | there are some new features that i should document thought
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| 21:43 | <mnevans> Is there anything an ignoramus like me can do to help, to say thanks to you and this community?
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| 21:43 | Document the complete install process?
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| 21:43 | <vagrantc> wow, some weird advice has creeped into that page :(
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| 21:44 | configuring /etc/exports should no longer be necessary
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| 21:44 | mnevans: the basics are still the same ... ltsp-build-client ...
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| 21:45 | <mnevans> Yes, I don;t think there is dhcp3 anymore, rather isc-dhcp-server
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| 21:46 | looking at: http://wiki.debian.org/LTSP/Howto, right?
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| 21:46 | <vagrantc> yeah.
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| 21:46 | lenny is oldstable
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| 21:47 | i should update it one of these days...
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| 21:48 | <mnevans> That would be a great thing for me. I try hard, but my notes suck and are full of holes.
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| 21:49 | <vagrantc> mostly, it would be removing a lot of cruft from the docs ...
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| 21:50 | ltsp-build-client ; ltsp-config isc-dhcp-server|dnsmasq
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| 21:50 | should pretty much be all yyou need to do
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| 21:51 | isc-dhcp-server is the default, though dnsmasq is kind of a nice alternative for some uses
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| 21:52 | you might have to tweak the configured files and such...
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| 21:53 | <mnevans> There's also starting tftp-hpa service, and I didn;t know how to update the chroot kernels, by ltsp-chroot; apt-get update; apt-get dit-upgrade; exit; ltsp-update-kernels; ltsp-update-image
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| 21:53 | Also editing /opt/ltsp./amd64/etc/ltsp/update-kernels.conf.
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| 21:54 | And updating kernel and image.
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| 21:57 | <vagrantc> starting tftp-hpa should happen by default.
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| 21:58 | there's some misleading information there about the current status of things.
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| 21:58 | but general ltsp maintenance really belongs in ltsp-docs
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| 22:00 | <mnevans> Yes, that'd be great.
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| 22:01 | I think I've monopolized your time anbd this chat enough for one day, don't you think?
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| 22:02 | I sure do appreciate all the help I get here. It helps me get stuck in increasingly worse linux spots... :)
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| 22:02 | Seriously many of you have saved my bacon (and productivity) repeatedly.
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| 22:02 | Many thanks.
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| 22:06 | I'd better get home.
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| 22:06 | Thanks again.
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| 22:06 | <vagrantc> mnevans: glad to be helpful!
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