IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)

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Channel log from 3 January 2012 (all times are UTC)

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14:25	<mgariepy> happy new year everyone !
14:26	<stgraber> hey mgariepy
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14:30	<veloutin> hi mgariepy !
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14:48	<rwmarch> happy new year to all
14:48	<alkisg> Happy new year!
14:56	So Gadi some teachers asked me to implement a virtualbox screen script
14:56	...where a single windows VM is used for ALL clients
14:57	<Gadi> so I hear
14:57	:)
14:57	<alkisg> :D
14:57	Or a KVM one, it shouldn't be much different
14:57	* Gadi thinks kvm would require less install
14:57	<Gadi> but, both should have equivalent scripts
14:57	and we can see if there is a real difference
14:57	performance wise
14:57	<alkisg> With virtualbox, it's possible to have a read only base disk, and shared folders for the user home, and a differencial (cow) rw disk
14:58	<Gadi> same with kvm
14:58	<alkisg> I suppose those would be possible with kvm too?
14:58	Good
14:58	<Gadi> kvm = qemu
14:58	and qemu had that for a while
14:58	qcow2 and the like
14:58	<alkisg> The problem with kvm is that it's incompatible with virtualbox afaik, so I can't even test it in my laptop... :(
14:58	<Gadi> really?
14:59	<rwmarch> Does anyone have experience with the Disklessworkstations TERM 1720 model. I have invested in them and attempting to use them on a Ubuntu 10.04 server (LTSP5). I am having display resolution problems with these devices attached to flat panel displays.
14:59	<Gadi> meaning you can install one or the other but not both?
14:59	rwmarch: did my response to the list make it to you yet?
14:59	<alkisg> Yes... or maybe only one of the modules can be loaded... I don't remember the error messages
14:59	<Gadi> you need to use: XRANDR_MODE_0
14:59	XRANDR_OUTPUT_0
14:59	(note the single digit)
15:00	alkisg: ok
15:00	<alkisg> So Gadi I'll start with the vbox script, and if you ever have time, you can try the kvm one
15:00	<Gadi> ok
15:00	<rwmarch> No, but I will look again.
15:01	<Gadi> alkisg: vbox will run whether you have vt hardware or not, right?
15:01	<alkisg> Right
15:01	So I was thinking, share /home with NFS, so that people have access to the .vdi image,
15:01	<rwmarch> Yes, I discovered the single digit issue since my post. But that seemed not to make a difference.
15:02	<alkisg> e.g. /home/teacher/Virtualbox/winxp/winxp.vdi,
15:02	And then use something like SCREEN_07=virtualbox /home/teacher/Virtualbox/winxp/winxp.vdi
15:02	<Gadi> rwmarch: what does your lts.conf look like?
15:03	alkisg: would each user have a different vdi img in their homedir?
15:03	<alkisg> Nope
15:03	<Gadi> where is the base?
15:03	<alkisg> The .vdi disk is there in e.g. the teacher folder
15:04	The .vbox VM xml description is in the same folder, for the teacher to administer the VM, but it's not used by the clients,
15:04	...the virtualbox screen script would generate a .vbox VM for them at boot
15:04	vboxmanage createvm etc etc, with the teacher .vdi as the read-only base
15:05	So if the teacher wants to install a program, he'd shut down the clients, boot his vm, install the program, boot the clients, and it would be there for all of them
15:05	No AD or windows servers or remote desktop or anything complicated involved at all
15:05	<Gadi> ok. I would not assume the "teacher folder" (or the base img folder) to be anywhere
15:06	ie. make that variable
15:06	<alkisg> (05:02:27 μμ) alkisg: And then use something like SCREEN_07=virtualbox /home/teacher/Virtualbox/winxp/winxp.vdi
15:06	A parameter to the screen script
15:06	<Gadi> ok, and NFS_EXTRAMOUNTS or whatever it is can mount that dir as needed
15:06	<alkisg> If one wants to mount that with NBD, we could
15:07	Yes the mount method would be unrelated to the vbox script
15:07	* Gadi nods
15:07	<alkisg> Do you think we'll need a user account, to run vbox on the client? Or we just run it as root?
15:07	<Gadi> the perennial question
15:08	I wrestled with that with "kiosk", too
15:08	at first pass, make it run as root
15:08	then, we'll see
15:09	<alkisg> Maybe we can have some extra ltsp command that takes care of that... for any suitable screen script
15:09	ok
15:09	<rwmarch> Gadi: Now /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf is empty except for the Default section at the top.
15:09	<alkisg> rwmarch: don't have empty sections, they're considered syntax errors
15:09	(even if they have comments)
15:10	<Gadi> rwmarch: when you log in at that thin client and run "xrandr" in a terminal, what are the outputs shown?
15:11	<rwmarch> Yes, I learned that empty sections cause syntax messages. I presume that this however does not upset parsing.
15:12	xrandr shows all the expected resolutions for a both interfaces, VGA and DVI.
15:14	XRANDR_OUTPUT_0=LVDS1 "--off" I found to be an improvement. Not sure what it does.
15:15	<Gadi> rwmarch: what are the exact names of the outputs?
15:15	ie: VGA-1
15:15	or some such
15:15	and which do you use?
15:15	ie which do you actually plug in?
15:16	<rwmarch> I now have a TERM 1720 display OK on a client attached to Ubuntu 10.10.
15:16	<Gadi> ok. In general:
15:16	you can name the outputs in lts.conf with:
15:16	<rwmarch> Using the DVI connection. The VGA connection was problematic in terms of resolution.
15:17	<Gadi> XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 = "VGA1"
15:17	XRANDR_OUTPUT_1 = "DVI1"
15:17	XRANDR_OUTPUT_2 = "LVDS1 --off" (turns off a phantom LVDS output)
15:17	<alkisg> Gadi, I think that allowing the users to run arbitrary xrandr commands would be much easier and flexible than defining XRANDR* variables... wouldn't it?
15:18	<Gadi> then, you can set the modes for the corresponding outputs:
15:18	so, for VGA:
15:18	XRANDR_MODE_0 = 1280x1024
15:18	or for DVI:
15:18	XRAND_MODE_1 = 1024x768
15:18	like that
15:19	if you want one of them to be off completely, you can add the "--off" after its name when you name it
15:19	the name must correspond to the name in the output of xrandr
15:19	<rwmarch> These XRANDR options I have not tried. Will do. Unfortunately I do not have access to the system at the moment.
15:19	<Gadi> not an arbitrary name
15:19	ok
15:19	but, that's the idea
15:20	<alkisg> ...unrelated note... it would also be nice if we could have a package that allowed non-ltsp clients to be configured with certain lts.conf commands
15:20	<Gadi> alkisg: by the code, one could put the entire custom xrandr command stuffed into a single XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 variable
15:21	alkisg: but, for most simple use cases, most users want a single parameter to change resolution
15:21	like XRANDR_MODE_0
15:21	<alkisg> E.g. I have a class with 5 ltsp clients, and 7 non-ltsp clients, and I want to set 1024x768 to all of them... it'd be nice if I could do that with just one lts.conf
15:21	<Gadi> you can
15:21	in his case, there is a bug in his driver
15:21	<alkisg> Gadi: I haven't found a way to add a new mode AND use it with the XRANDR commands
15:21	<Gadi> but, if the drivers behave
15:22	you just say XRANDR_MODE_0 = 1024x768
15:22	<rwmarch> OK. I will try these variables. Is there something peculiar about these client boxes? I have been using LTSP for many years (albeit version 4.2) and I have never had so much display trouble. I was expecting "out of the box" operation from Disklessworkstations.
15:22	<alkisg> xrandr --newmode xxx; xrandr --addmode VGA1 xxx; xrandr --output VGA1 --mode xxx
15:22	<Gadi> alkisg: adding modes is an advanced task that should not have to be done
15:22	<alkisg> => I don't think I can do that with lts.conf
15:22	<Gadi> you can, it is just not obvoious
15:22	*obvious
15:22	<alkisg> How?
15:24	<Gadi> you can say: XRANDR_OUTPUT_0 = "VGA1 --newmode xxx --addmode VGA1 xxx --mode xxx"
15:24	right
15:24	that works on one line, no?
15:24	<alkisg> I don't think so
15:24	<Gadi> oh
15:24	well, if you need multiple xrandr lines, then, yeah, we can't
15:25	<alkisg> Would it work if I tried XRANDR_OUTPUT_1=VGA1 and continued the command there?
15:25	<Gadi> heh
15:25	yeah, probably
15:25	<alkisg> :)
15:26	Basically my problem is that we don't share customization methods with regular installations
15:26	So I need to configure ltsp clients one way, and non-ltsp clients another way
15:26	But I like the "allow some lts.conf directives to be applied to non-ltsp clients" idea better :)
15:27	<Gadi> noted
15:27	:)
15:27	but, do non-ltsp clients respect lts.conf?
15:28	<alkisg> Currently, no, but we could split ltsp into a "configuration" package, seperated from the "boot from the network" package
15:28	<Gadi> perhaps what you really mean, is that either ltsp should cover standalone machines, or some lts.conf parameters should not actually be handled by ltsp
15:30	<rwmarch> In my case, I find that XRANDR_MODE_0 = 1024x768 has no effect. Either the resolution is still wrong or the display is off screen to the right or left.
15:30	Also tried the many different resolutions in the BIOS with no success.
15:32	Is there something peculiar about the model TERM 1720?
15:32	<Gadi> rwmarch: your particular client has a video driver issue in that it has a phantom output for LVDS
15:32	rwmarch: that is why you need the LVDS1 --off
15:32	to turn that off
15:32	with it on, it will try to determine resolution by the LVDS output which is a fixed panel resolution
15:32	that does not exists
15:33	:)
15:33	*exist
15:33	so, it is altogether wrong
15:33	<rwmarch> OK. So that why I found some improvement when I turned off LVDS1.
15:33	<Gadi> with that turned off, you should then be able to set the mode to one of the detected modes
15:34	now, some drivers fail to properly get modes from the monitor when using DVI
15:34	I have seen that before, too
15:34	but, either way,
15:34	with LVDS turned off,
15:34	if you log in and run: xrandr
15:34	from a terminal
15:35	you will see the two remaining outputs and what modes it detected
15:35	and then, you can tell it which one you want
15:35	<rwmarch> In one permutation I did get the right display except that the Ubuntu panels top and bottom would not appear until $ xrandr -s 1024x768.
15:35	Then they appeared.
15:36	<Gadi> ah, so in that case, your resolution and your "virtual screen area" where not right
15:36	ie, your display went beyond the boundaries of the monitor
15:36	I bet if you moved the mouse all the way up, it would then "pan"
15:36	and you would see things
15:36	<rwmarch> Of course, I cannot expect my users to fiddle with display settings when they login -- sometimes via LTSP and sometimes otherwise.
15:36	<Gadi> of course not
15:37	and you wont have to
15:37	just explaining what you are seeing here
15:37	:)
15:37	<rwmarch> Yes, but the mouse would not cause panning. Tried that many times.
15:37	<Gadi> if you like, _UsUrPeR_ and some others here are from disklessworkstations.com, so they can help you in real time
15:37	with that unit
15:38	* _UsUrPeR_ HAS BEEN SUMMONED
15:38	* Gadi wishes _UsUrPeR_ a happy new year
15:38	<Gadi> :)
15:38	<_UsUrPeR_> same to you bud
15:38	<Gadi> _UsUrPeR_: rwmarch has one of your units that needs the LVDS turned off and the right BIOS settings to make the magic happen
15:38	rwmarch: meet _UsUrPeR_
15:39	:)
15:39	<_UsUrPeR_> well hello there
15:39	what unit do you have?
15:39	<rwmarch> Hello _UsUrPeR_
15:39	<_UsUrPeR_> rwmarch: ^^
15:39	<rwmarch> 1720
15:40	<_UsUrPeR_> rwmarch: Shoot support@disklessworkstations.com an email, and I can respond with a script which will fix your issue
15:41	<rwmarch> OK. Will do.
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16:11	<_UsUrPeR_> rwmarch: got your email and replied. Let me know if you have any problems
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16:27	<rwmarch> _UsUrPeR_: Thank you will do. In your email you say that the script works for "all versions of Ubuntu past 10.04". So this excludes 10.04??
16:27	<_UsUrPeR_> rwmarch, yes. 10.04 included :)
16:28	<rwmarch> OK. So that was a mis-statement in your email. 10.04 is NOT excluded.
16:47	<_UsUrPeR_> correct
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16:50	<_UsUrPeR_> rwmarch: correct
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18:27	<ncd209> hey which is the file where rdp is told to connect to
18:27	i forgot
18:28	ah lts.conf
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18:45	<ncd209> hrrm
18:46	how do i make my changes to lts.conf perminant
18:47	ah ltsp-update-image
18:47	yyay lol
18:47	i thought I would never get to go home
18:48	<alkisg> No need for ltsp-update-image
18:48	Just put your lts.conf to /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf
18:49	<ncd209> i do not have it
18:57	<alkisg> Create it
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