IRC chat logs for #ltsp on irc.libera.chat (webchat)
Channel log from 20 April 2011 (all times are UTC)
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| 05:28 | <Hyperbyte> Ah, es muy bueno!
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| 09:30 | <garymc> Hi im looking at thin client manager in my ubuntu Ltsp GUI and it shows no thin clients connected. I know there are several connected. what could be wrong here?
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| 09:30 | <vagrantc> what's wrong is thin client manager is unmaintained and broken for several years
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| 09:31 | <garymc> ahhh ok
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| 09:31 | so its not something I have done
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| 09:32 | <vagrantc> at best, it won't break anything, at worst, it can break your LTSP
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| 09:33 | <garymc> i was wondering why my thin clients are really slow at using the intranet on the server?
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| 09:33 | i have a web based customer database on the LTSP server and all thin clients seem very slow using it
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| 09:34 | but if I use a computer that isnt on the LTSP or isnt a thin client it works fine
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| 09:57 | <dyllan> hi guys
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| 09:57 | <abeehc> hello
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| 09:58 | <dyllan> Does LTSP 5 have trouble displaying high resolution on widescreen monitors? I have a widescreen and the highest resolution is 1024x768, can this be increased? - thakns
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| 09:59 | <abeehc> no it doesn't have trouble.. you can troubleshoot that as if it were simply a ubuntu problem i'd say
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| 10:00 | <abeehc> err
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| 10:00 | what distro?
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| 10:00 | in any case i think your video chipset is one of the most important parts
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| 10:00 | oh and the monitor heh
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| 10:00 | <dyllan> ubuntu, using an intel video card
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| 10:01 | do I have to configure lts.conf file? i am seeing quite a lot of that when googling for my problem.. .
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| 10:03 | <abeehc> if your video chipset was working perfectly you shouldn't have to tell lts.conf much if anything in my experience
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| 10:03 | worth a try though there's a number of things in lts_parameters.txt you should look at
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| 10:04 | <dyllan> thing is, if i install the exact same version of ubuntu onto the "thin client" the resolution works fine, so im a bit stumped
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| 10:04 | <abeehc> ahh interesting i gotcha
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| 10:04 | that's a good test
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| 10:04 | have you unlocked your thinclient chroot and root account?
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| 10:04 | I'd be wondering what video driver the thin client ends up using
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| 10:05 | cause you can override that in lts.conf; you should find the driver differs from the local install to what the thinclient boots and uses i guess
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| 10:06 | <dyllan> im not quite sure how to get into the thin client root account, i can switch to the console with F1 but no idea what user/pass to use there. If i am on the server and # chroot /etc/ltsp/i386 then i get / but there are no log files, what am i missing?
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| 10:06 | <abeehc> sec
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| 10:06 | <dyllan> ty
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| 10:06 | <abeehc> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/UnlockChrootRootAcct
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| 10:07 | i personally always also do openssh-server so i don't have to walk so much
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| 10:08 | <dyllan> haha, yes i already have ssh daemon running ill checkout the tut thnx
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| 10:11 | <abeehc> i mean to say i do openssh-server in the chroot so the clients also listen via ssh
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| 10:11 | <dyllan> I should also mention than the server is 64-bit and client i386 to i have to --arch i386
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| 10:12 | <abeehc> yeah you'll want to adjust that tutorial to your needs for sure
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| 10:12 | i think that's probly all you have to specify
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| 10:12 | with ltsp-update-image part anyway
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| 10:13 | <dyllan> ok so i followed the link, doesnt that mean now i should change to console on the thin client ctrl-alt-f1 then at the prompt root & password?
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| 10:13 | i dont think i have quite grasped the whole setup yet!
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| 10:13 | <abeehc> you need to do the two or three steps there; then you need to let ltsp-update-image complete, then you need to reboot the client
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| 10:14 | if that helps'?
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| 10:14 | <dyllan> ahh reboot ok
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| 10:14 | that's probably what i was missing
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| 10:14 | <abeehc> :>
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| 10:14 | <dyllan> :)
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| 10:14 | <abeehc> if you logout i think ldm will detect you have a new image waiting
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| 10:14 | and the client will decide to reboot itself
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| 10:14 | <dyllan> it does, smart :)
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| 10:16 | <abeehc> afkback in a couplefew
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| 10:17 | <dyllan> k ty for ur help
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| 10:41 | <abeehc> i guess lts_parameters.txt is dead now; man lts.conf is the way to go, once ltsp-docs is installed
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| 10:44 | could anyone say if NFS_HOME accepts something like server2:/home or is that non-sensible
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| 10:46 | <dyllan> abeehc, just fyi the problem was that i had a converter from vga to dvi and that was causing the issue.
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| 10:46 | Straight DVI cable worked!
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| 10:46 | <abeehc> ah excellent stuff
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| 10:46 | <dyllan> yup im stoked!
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| 10:46 | <abeehc> that makes sense; vga can't carry very high resolutions
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| 10:47 | <dyllan> yea. how many users do you think ltsp and my hardware can manage before it gets slugish?
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| 10:47 | Im running an IBM x3550 M3 with 8GB at the moment. Option to upgrade to 16GB RAM.
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| 10:48 | My thin clients are very powerful for thin clients, 1GB RAM, 1.6 Intel Atom CPU
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| 10:48 | <abeehc> it's of course, always tough to say/estimate but in my experience as just stright thin clients, you could handle like 30 or 40.. at least i have lesser hardware with half that ram that does just fine with 20 clients
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| 10:49 | thin clients like that you should be running fat clients i'd say
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| 10:49 | <dyllan> ok, but at least I can get an idea then
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| 10:49 | <abeehc> I'm in the process of getting somewhere near fat clients
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| 10:49 | takes much processing off the server
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| 10:49 | <dyllan> abeehc, ya i tried to set up the solution in that way but i just couldnt get it working nicely, spent 3 days on it, and 3 hours on ltsp and got it working A OK
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| 10:50 | <abeehc> well I do mean ltsp fat clients
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| 10:50 | i'm not sure if that
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| 10:50 | 's what you mean
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| 10:50 | <dyllan> hmm, so you mean that with the current configuration I can make a couple changes and have the thin client do some of the work?
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| 10:50 | ie. i dont have to do a complete reinstall and setup a completely different solution
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| 10:50 | <abeehc> yeah there's a couple approaches to do so; local apps, or fat clients
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| 10:51 | both place processing on client
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| 10:51 | a lot of people do local apps for firefox cause flash sucks so much
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| 10:51 | <dyllan> ok nice, yup flash is sux ;)
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| 10:51 | ok ill google local apps and see what i can come up with
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| 10:51 | <abeehc> your server likely won't be starved in any case but I'm finding flash lags a bit anyway if it's not local.. i don't mean flash, i mean youtube videos
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| 10:52 | i think the only place to be is the ubuntu ltsp page man, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP
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| 10:52 | <dyllan> what i used to do is install a firefox plugin that disables flash by default so there is a PLAY button on the flash content and if you really want to see it then just click lay.
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| 10:52 | <abeehc> fat clients are noted there; i guess this stuff is kinda new compared to local apps
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| 10:52 | <dyllan> play*
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| 10:52 | <abeehc> ah yeah I considered that too, good call;
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| 10:52 | <dyllan> but i must say that flash is running 100% at the moment, but im only 1 user
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| 10:53 | <abeehc> yeah, these options are normally only explored when your server starts complaining
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| 10:53 | <dyllan> exactly
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| 10:53 | <abeehc> but also your clients are so powerful it might also be worth while
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| 10:54 | <dyllan> i agree. Going to start moving as much people as I can across then watch top and see how it handles the load then take it from there, but the users will moan quickly if there is an issue im sure of that ;)
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| 10:55 | i love the fact that with ltsp i can plugin a usb devices and it shows up on the desktop and sound works!
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| 10:55 | <abeehc> it is great. lts.conf also offers a lot of flexibiility
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| 10:56 | <dyllan> in what way? Enabling/Disabling devices & sound?
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| 10:56 | <abeehc> if you haven't come across it, you might look at LDM_DIRECTX=True
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| 10:56 | yeah enable devices per thin client or allow specific users on specific thinclients or auto-login on a specific thin client
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| 10:56 | combined with a flexible dhcp server you can do almost anything i figure
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| 10:57 | <dyllan> nice, so using MAC address ip assign then manage the peripherals via lts.conf
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| 10:57 | <dyllan> a quick google it seems that LDM_DIRECTX provides for a faster user desktop?
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| 10:57 | <abeehc> yeah well actually the only time dhcp comes into play I guess is if your service different images to different clients;
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| 10:58 | you can use mac addresses directly in lts.conf instead of setting static ips elsewhere
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| 10:58 | yeah, that's right, most people go with LDM_DIRECTX i think; but keep in mind it has security considerations
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| 10:58 | <dyllan> ahh nice, thanks for the tip
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| 10:59 | <abeehc> in that the server no longer encrypts the client traffic, that's where the speed comes from
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| 10:59 | so if your network's safe it's not a real worry I beleive
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| 10:59 | <dyllan> Hmm, I think that would suit me!
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| 10:59 | excellent tips here, i should visit more often haha
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| 11:02 | our current solution is XDMCP with gentoo and kde 4.3, so connection via the XDMCP protocol get your desktop login and voila. But with the hardware much better these days it makes sense to make use of ltsp
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| 11:50 | <dberkholz> eek, xdmcp.
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| 11:51 | * alkisg likes XDMCP :) | |
| 11:51 | <highvoltage> the nice thing about xdmcp was that all the populer display managers knew about it
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| 11:51 | *popular
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| 11:52 | <alkisg> And they still do, even lightdm supports it
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| 11:53 | <highvoltage> gdm doesn't
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| 11:53 | (well not anymore)
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| 11:53 | <alkisg> Sure does
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| 11:53 | In Lucid it had problems connecting 2 times in a row, I filed a bug about it, it was solved, all work fine now
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| 12:12 | <highvoltage> ah, ok
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| 13:00 | <highvoltage> http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/20/chinese-robotic-triceratops-skeleton-packs-linux-no-horns
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| 14:14 | <kusznir> Hi all: I recently started having a problem on my network such that when my thin clients reboot, they get dhcp and tftp info, and start booting. Then, when ubuntu on the thin clients starts to boot, it ends up scrolling "DHCP NAK" for its IP, which is the same IP it just had for booting.
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| 14:15 | <kusznir> My DHCP is served up by pfSense (as it does more than just thin clients). I realize this isn't directly an LTSP problem, but I also have no idea what would cause a DHCP NAK like that on an IP its already received from the DHCP server unless there's some other paramater that is changing. I've reproduced this on two different thin clients.
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| 14:27 | <alkisg> kusznir: distro/version?
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| 14:29 | Ah you said "ubuntu", is that 10.04 ?
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| 14:32 | <kusznir> alkisg, ltsp server is actually still 9.10
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> kusznir: and the chroot?
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| 14:33 | <kusznir> Working on newer...but that's a back burner project, which I rarely have time to work on.
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| 14:33 | Same for chroot.
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| 14:33 | <alkisg> If I remember correctly, karmic uses udhcpc to get a lease by default
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| 14:33 | And that udhcpc is 5 years old and has some bugs
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| 14:33 | <kusznir> That's correct, the error messages all said udhcpc
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> One of them is related to the "client identifier"
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| 14:34 | <kusznir> Ok.
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| 14:34 | <alkisg> In short, the PXE dhcp requests sends one client identifier, and then udhcp sends another
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| 14:34 | So your router thinks they're 2 different clients, and refuses the second lease
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| 14:35 | <kusznir> Strange thing was that it *did* work before I upgraded pfsense, but I haven't gotten a response from ##pfsense people yet, and investigation of settings and logs don't show anything useful.
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> No need to look there
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| 14:35 | <kusznir> Ok. The logs show only the mac address identifier, and they are identical (nothing appended).
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> The problem exists in cisco routers too, in windows dhcp servers, etc etc
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| 14:35 | <kusznir> Ok. So is there a fix to the chroot that can fix this?
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| 14:35 | <alkisg> Yes
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| 14:35 | <kusznir> cool.'
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| 14:35 | how?
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| 14:36 | <alkisg> Either get a newer udhcpc version, or modify the script that calls udhcp to not send a client identifier
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| 14:36 | The second is probably faster
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| 14:36 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+bug/505916
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| 14:37 | <kusznir> Hmm.../scripts/* doesn't exist...
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| 14:37 | <alkisg> /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udhcp
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| 14:37 | <kusznir> ahh...ok.
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| 14:37 | I take it I need to rebuild the initramfs then too? (I've not done that on ubuntu before)
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| 14:38 | <alkisg> if udhcpc -n -c "$clientid" -s /tmp/dhcp-script.sh -i $i $hostname_param $ip_param >/dev/null 2>&1; then
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| 14:38 | ==> you need to remove "-c $clientid" there
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| 14:38 | See comment #15 on the above bug report
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| 14:39 | <kusznir> Hmm.. I have: if udhcpc -n -c '' -s /tmp/dhcp-script.sh -i $i $clientid_param $hostname_param $ip_param > /dev/null; then
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| 14:39 | so its already blank...or is that part of the problem?
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| 14:40 | <alkisg> It is
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| 14:40 | Remove the: -c ''
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| 14:40 | <kusznir> Ok. I should keep the $clientied_param before the $hostname_param, right?
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| 14:40 | ahh, yeas, I see that on the website, sorry.
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| 14:42 | Ok, going to test now :)
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| 14:43 | <alkisg> Notice that there's no need to run ltsp-update-image
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| 14:43 | <kusznir> Yep, thanks! That worked well.
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| 14:44 | Speaking of ltsp-update-image, is there any fix for all thin clients crashing after rebooting the ltsp server?
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| 14:45 | (even if the image isn't updated)
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| 15:05 | <alkisg> kusznir: if the clients are on the login screen, yes. But if they're logged on, then no, their processes die.
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| 15:09 | <kusznir> Yea. The issue is that their clients are on the login screen when I reboot the server (overnight, for example). When they come in and try and log in, the login screen dissappears, and goes to a black screen scrolling buches of I/O errors, block errors,a nd the like. It keeps going until they pull power and restart the thin client.
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| 15:10 | <abeehc> i run into that pretty often as well
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| 15:11 | <kusznir> I fully expect their login sessions to dissapear. And I would be understanding of a thin client crashing if it was doing something when the server went down. But I don't get it if they're idle and the server reboots with no changes to the image, when it comes back up, it should just work again.
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| 15:14 | <kusznir> they're == the thin clients (with nobody logged in)
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| 15:15 | <alkisg> nbd-client has a --persist option which should make this case work
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| 15:15 | I think you'd also have to remove nbd-proxy, if it's there in karmic
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| 15:15 | <gothaggis> hello, I seem to be having a problem setting up a new LTSP server - I'm using Ubuntu 10.04 and a windows server for DHCP. When I power on a new client, it gets an IP address but then says PXE-E11 ARP timeout PXE-E38 TFTP cannot open connection. what am I doing wrong?
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| 15:15 | <kusznir> alkisg, will these problems dissappear when I upgrade to a newer version of ubuntu for the chroot?
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| 15:16 | <gothaggis> I followed the steps setting up this new LTSP server the same way I setup a server running on an older version of Ubuntu (8) - so not sure if something has changed with 10.04 or perhaps I skipped a step
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| 15:16 | <alkisg> kusznir: lucid and maverick use nbd-proxy by default, so no, I don't think so. I think nbd-proxy was disabled by default in Natty, but I haven't tried it yet, and I don't know if -persist was again added to nbd-client.
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| 15:17 | gothaggis: if it's a tftp problem, try this first: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/Troubleshooting/TFTP
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| 15:17 | <kusznir> I was shooting for natty for my rebuild.
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| 15:18 | <alkisg> I think -persist is still missing there
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| 15:19 | revno: 879
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| 15:19 | branch nick: ltsp-trunk
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| 15:19 | timestamp: Sat 2008-10-04 17:21:51 -0400
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| 15:19 | message: Start nbd-client with -persist so it reconnects in case of nbd-server crash (needs nbd-client 2.9)
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| 15:19 | Later on though it was dropped. Don't know why.
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| 15:19 | <kusznir> Ok. Where does that get added/set?
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| 15:20 | <alkisg> In ltsp_nbd, near the other file you changed
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| 15:20 | (a dir up)
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| 15:24 | <kusznir> alkisg, thanks. Updated. We'll see how that goes next time I have a maintenance reboot...
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> kusznir: after that, whatever problems remain are nbd-client problems, to be reported in its bug tracker
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| 15:25 | <gothaggis> alkisg, i followed all the steps on the TFTP troubleshooting page and everything seems ok - but clients still won't boot. the one thing is, I'm using a windows server for DHCP so I don't have the dhcpd.conf file.
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| 15:25 | <alkisg> gothaggis: did you also do the gpxe step?
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| 15:26 | (btw, if you need help on configuring your windows server, it's there: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPWindowsDHCP)
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| 15:26 | <gothaggis> I think I found the problem, I think the windows DHCP is still pointing to the old server
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| 15:27 | <alkisg> Could be. gPXE is handy in those cases, as you can see from the client side the DHCP parameters.
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| 15:45 | <gothaggis> alkisg, thanks - that was exactly the issue, everything is working great now
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| 15:45 | <alkisg> Nice. Goodnight all.
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| 20:19 | <finn0000> Hey I'm trying to set up an LTSP cluster root server, but the machine will only boot from it's hard drive or the network (PXE). I got it to get PXE off my Ubuntu laptop, then there was a problem and I had to start over and now it won't netboot
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| 20:20 | I checked netstat on my laptop and nothing related to tftp is open (dnsmasq has DNS open, that's it)
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| 20:21 | any ideas?
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| 20:28 | oh hold on
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| 20:28 | wow i'm stupid
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| 20:28 | the server has two network ports, i guess i had it in the wrong one
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| 20:28 | works fine now
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| 20:28 | I'll be back with more noob questions
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| 20:28 | just you wait
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| 21:47 | <dyllan> Hi all
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| 21:49 | <dyllan> Is the best way to lockdown a users desktop, more specifically their wallpaper, still by using Gconf?
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| 00:00 | --- Thu Apr 21 2011 | |